75 - A Biblical Response to Feeling Left Out

Nobody likes feeling left out—but it’s part of life. Feeling left out strikes at our core need to belong, affecting us deeply, whether it's an event we weren't invited to or a subtle sense that others are more connected than we are. This week, we’ll share why it hits so hard, what the Bible says about it, and how to create a culture of belonging wherever you are. If you've ever felt excluded (or accidentally excluded someone else), this one's for you.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to the Exhorter podcast, where we aim to stir up love and good works through bite-size biblical discussion. I think it's John John.

Speaker 2 0:16

I think you have the topic for today. I don't know if it's my turn, but I'm going to go anyways.

Speaker 1 0:20

That's because you're a servant leader.

Speaker 2 0:22

Yeah, sure that's it and I really just wanted you guys to. I wanted to get this one done and let you make you guys feel left out.

Speaker 1 0:30

Oh, you wanted to get it out of the way, yeah.

Speaker 2 0:31

So, yeah, today we're talking about something that hits a little closer to home for many of us than we'd probably like to admit, and it is the topic of feeling left out. This is a listener request, actually, which we love, so keep them coming, especially good suggestions, especially the good ones. We like the good ones. We leave out the others, we just ignore them. No, today we're going to look at both sides of the issue, actually what to do when you feel left out, and how can we be better at not leaving others out, especially as followers of Christ.

Speaker 1 1:05

When you said look at both sides of the issue, I thought we were going to look at how to not leave people out and then leave people out.

Speaker 2 1:12

How to leave?

Speaker 1 1:12

people out effectively.

Speaker 2 1:14

There are five ways to do it where they won't know that's good.

Speaker 2 1:19

So we just kind of jump right into it. So we're going to break this up into a couple of segments and the first one, like I said, is when you feel left out. So let's start with the feeling of being left out. It's more than just not getting an invite. It hits a core need we all have, which is to belong. Whether it's a group photo you weren't in an event you weren't invited to, or just a subtle sense that others are more connected than you, it can hit deep. Even when it's unintentional, it still hurts. Can either of you share a time, maybe growing up or even recently, when you felt left out of something and it really stuck with you?

Speaker 1 1:57

I'm sort of like Kyle, I get invited to everything and what?

Speaker 3 2:03

did you say last time. At least that's the way I perceive reality.

Speaker 1 2:06

How did you phrase it last time?

Speaker 3 2:07

It was really good, I don't remember, I'm a one off, ok, ok. You can't bottle this magic.

Speaker 1 2:12

You were like I'm invited to everything, and if I don't go, it's by choice, not because I wasn't invited.

Speaker 2 2:16

Yeah, something like that Sounds like me.

Speaker 3 2:18

I don't remember.

Speaker 3 2:20

Well, I can remember a specific example at summer camp where at the end of the week there was always the campers versus counselors volleyball, basketball, these different sports. I was really big into basketball as a kid and I was right on the edge of still a junior, almost a senior camper 12, 13 years old. And I'm big and tall and always have been, and I love basketball and I thought I was better than some of the older senior boys and I thought that year I would really get to play. And one of the older campers just looked at me and said hey, you're not playing, go away. And you know I won't say I cried, but I went and cried where?

Speaker 1 3:01

no one could see me cry. I won't say I cried. But I cried, yeah, last year, the last couple of years at work, my principal he I don't know, he had this way of attracting certain people to him and he had like this click that followed him around and I was not part of that click. Did he make you cry too? And so several times. And so I just sometimes like I was in my classroom and I'd look out and that click was standing out there all talking and laughing and I felt left out.

Speaker 2 3:39

But I would feel even weirder walking up to the group and being like hey guys, that's one of those photos. You don't want to be without it, but you would decline the invite.

Speaker 1 3:48

Obviously yeah, I would like to have the option to decline.

Speaker 3 3:52

They were probably just sitting around saying man, we wish we were cool enough for Nate to hang out with us. Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:57

That's probably, you're probably, you're probably right Go.

Speaker 3 4:08

Uh, right go, uh for me.

Speaker 2 4:09

Uh, most of my adolescent years were marked by exclusion. So john is a. John is a pacey white ginger. Well, let me get there at church and at school.

Speaker 3 4:13

I was often in that context I'm giving context.

Speaker 2 4:15

Um, I was often an odd one out. I was short, about six inches shorter than my peers ghostly pale white skin, red hair glasses, fre glasses, freckles, and I checked all the boxes for adolescent exclusion. So, but one memory I always think about. It always stands out and we're going to push the awe meter right. Okay, get ready for it. A class trip to Disneyland, I think it was. I was 13, 12, 13. And you'd think it'd be like the best day ever. But I spent a good chunk of that day walking around by myself that day, not because I wanted to, but because no one included me in their group. And, yeah sure, single rider lines, you know are efficient, you know they are great, but when you're 13, it's not what you're looking and you're thinking about. It just felt pretty sad, yeah.

Speaker 3 5:04

Oh, that sad guitar riff from Full House.

Speaker 2 5:06

There you go. Which one's that one?

Speaker 3 5:07

The one. Every time DJ did something bad or something bad happened to her, they would do this. It was like strumming, a minor chord. I'm going to have to find it just so I can throw it in there.

Speaker 2 5:17

And so, if you're listening and you've had a similar experience, the thing is you're not alone. Okay, so I found some interesting data. We love data here about friendships and connections, and I'm I. I wrote it out for you guys to look around.

Speaker 3 5:33

So you, john. Empirical data.

Speaker 2 5:34

We're going to look at data and we're going to look at cognitive biases as well.

Speaker 1 5:38

Obviously, Are we going to open the Bible at all today?

Speaker 2 5:40

Wow when we aim to hey, we all have our brand here, we all have our method. Okay.

Speaker 1 5:46

Discuss data-based evidence. Yeah, I know, yeah.

Speaker 2 5:49

Okay, so an average number of close friends? Okay, this was an interesting study from Cross River Therapy Research Survey on friendship, and the study, which charted social lives of 2000 people, showed that we make just 29 real friends in our lifetime on average and only six of them last the distance. We lose touch with almost 50% of friends that we make, and let's see if you can guess this one the average person in America has how many close friends I?

Speaker 1 6:19

know, I wrote the answer. Is this a verb.

Speaker 2 6:25

Well, I didn't look at the notes you gave me so I can guess. Sure, yeah, the average person in America has blank close friends. Five.

Speaker 1 6:32

You are generous, I think I think or I'm just popular. I'm invited to everything. I'm Kyle. It's spicy already Three.

Speaker 2 6:43

It's actually between three and five close friends, I know I saw the first.

Speaker 1 6:46

You looked at the first.

Speaker 2 6:47

So let's say average answer for so the average person in America has about four close friends and, according to the survey, 13% of the people said they had 10 or more close friends. 36% though larger chunk have between four and nine close friends 49, the largest percentage having three or fewer friends, and, sadly, 12% say they have no close friends. There's also another number here we'll look at. It's called the Dunbar's number and that's anthropologist Robin Dunbar. He suggested that humans can maintain about 150 stable social relationships. That's like acquaintances, work acquaintances and good friends, but the number of close, meaningful contacts is much smaller, typically around five. So you might be able to maintain that many like I can remember that many people's names, kind of thing. That's the way I look at that. So what do you think about those numbers? Does anything really stick out at you as far as that study?

Speaker 1 7:47

150 stable social relationships. So how many people at church are we forgetting?

Speaker 2 7:53

Yeah, like if you have a congregation of over 250 to 300 people, the fact that you're not understand, you might not remember all of their names all the time, and that's that kind of. It's a little bit biological. Ok. It's really kind of difficult to absorb and not everyone can do that. You know there are some people who have great memories and that can process all that, but we only have so much that our brains can generally kind of keep track of, and 150 people is one of them.

Speaker 1 8:21

Is this why there will only be 144,000 in heaven?

Speaker 3 8:25

That's God's done, bar number that's his, that's a that's a future episode of next month on the exhorter podcast 144,000. Nice, oh yeah, unlocking the mysteries of revelation, let's let's, let's do that one.

Speaker 1 8:38

Oh, good title. Yeah, excellent title.

Speaker 3 8:58

Back to this one, though. Anything jump out at you At summer camp, you know, by the end of the week I would make it a point to know every single kid's name. You know we all have name tags and so the first couple of days as I would point at them and when I did that it would it was a sign to say let me at their name tag and say their name. You know, say hi blank, hello blank, or go to like a Bible class and just like walk in and just be like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, name all the kids and by the end of camp every year I would know about 150 kids names. But the thing is and I found that was important is showing someone you know their name. When we get a visitor at church, I try to go up to him right away and show him that I remember their name and just say hey, John, good to see you again. You know, thanks for coming back, and that's important to show them that they're valuable to you, that you learn their name and that is.

Speaker 3 9:36

I think that does make a big difference, but also that's still pretty superficial. I want them to know that I care about them. But there's a lot of truth to this idea that, as far as like in your inner circle, because one of the distinctions I learned at camp is I went from being a camp counselor so I had a cabin of like six or seven kids. I got to know them really good and I would stay in touch with them all year round and, um you know, chat with them or see them throughout the year and I made a much stronger connection with those six or seven kids. And then when I became camp director, I was too busy. I didn't really get a lot of time in a cabin with a smaller group of kids. I got to know everybody but I felt like I was also missing out because I I missed that getting to know the smaller group deeper connection.

Speaker 3 10:26

So there's a lot of truth to that that you have a lot of bandwidth for all kinds of friendships and associations, but I think you're limited on the closer meaningful relationships that you have in your inner circle.

Speaker 2 10:40

Yeah Well, and this was just a study, I mean, it's a suggestion, but to this point is, he suggests that you can maintain about 150. So as soon as you got back home, and to this point right now, how many of those 150 names could you pick out? So there's going to be some sort of drop off also when you get back here in a home and you have a congregation full of people. So it's this maintaining is kind of Rolodex of people. So it's this maintaining is kind of rolodex of people. It's you're going to give and you're going to take as new people come in the five close relationships.

Speaker 1 11:10

Does that include your family?

Speaker 2 11:11

uh, I don't know because it wasn't.

Speaker 1 11:14

Yeah, because I'm just, I'm just thinking like I think this is outside the family, I think it's social relationships, not familial, right?

Speaker 2 11:21

so I mean, I'm sure that tags them slightly different, but anyways, yeah, so that's interesting. So you know thinking about, you know audience at home. If you're thinking about this, how have you responded when you were left out and have you ever felt excluded, only to realize that later it wasn't personal at all? And then did that change anything? I asked because our brains do actually play tricks on us, so one of those is something called interpretation bias, and so that is where we assume the worst about an ambiguous social situation, like they didn't invite me because they don't like me, red hair when really it could have been space budget or just an oversight. See what we do is we anchor our worth in other people's attention. Um, we end up emotionally vulnerable and say things like they may not even realize what they're doing.

Speaker 1 12:18

So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, no, no, I've I've felt that before and, um, my wife has reminded me it. Well, it it probably wasn't on purpose, like it probably wasn't because it doesn't make it sting any less, but they came to Nate's name and they're like oh, like, I mean well so far down on the list Right Right.

Speaker 1 12:38

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, so that was, that was a good reminder. And, like Ashley and I have, you know, had things before, events before and had people over, and it's like at a certain point you just have to say, okay, we, you know, sure, there's a list, and my house is only so big and so you know, sometimes people don't make the list and that's unfortunate, um, but then there's the flip side of that where you know other people are planning things and they've got space limitations and so sometimes you don't make the list and it's just like that's part of life.

Speaker 2 13:12

But it's sometimes hard to remember that when you're the one that doesn't make the cut and we're emotional beings, so at the end of the day we kind of land in that direction.

Speaker 3 13:22

Hey, Nate, I got some scripture to satisfy your, your biblical requests.

Speaker 2 13:27

I have like three right now, but whatever.

Speaker 3 13:29

Well, I beat you to it. So Ecclesiastes seven and verse 21.

Speaker 1 13:35

Let me pause you before you read it. Thank you for bringing the Bible into this conversation. I just appreciate that that's what I bring to the table. You know, I know John is all about empirical evidence and psychology.

Speaker 3 13:46

But you know, I I look to God and his word for guidance.

Speaker 1 13:50

Good, good man, I think, if John could.

Speaker 2 13:52

I mean, my mother's probably going to say the same thing.

Speaker 1 13:54

She'd be like, well, we're getting there, we're getting there, we're getting there, mom Relax.

Speaker 3 13:59

Ecclesiastes 7 in verse 21 says do not take to heart everything people say, lest you hear your servant cursing you. For many times also your own heart has known that even you have cursed others, Right? Is that in your list? Maybe?

Speaker 2 14:11

I don't know. You haven't looked at the fourth page yet of my outline, so I wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 14:15

It's a good outline Four pages.

Speaker 2 14:17

Thank you, let's play with you Front and back. No, and that is the. The thing is, you never know what you don't know. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, it doesn't mean that it's not, it doesn't affect you. But, um, I generally like to take that second kind of walk a mile in someone else's shoes and try to empathize and understand, from their perspective maybe, what they're dealing with. Yeah, and if you've ever, yes, entertained or invited people to things, there are certain reasons you keep things small and there are benefits. And then there are some times where afterwards, you look back and you're like I like to take the passive-aggressive route.

Speaker 3 14:48

So, Nate, did you do anything fun on Friday night when I know he had people over and not me Did?

Speaker 1 14:56

you have people over this Friday night? No, but I do have to tell you that it's not my fault, it's my daughter's fault.

Speaker 2 15:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1 15:05

Her birthday is tomorrow and your family didn't get invited. Why not? I don't know, ask her, mine did. Yeah, see, this is like I feel bad now. Wow, you should.

Speaker 2 15:18

This isn't going to come out for weeks, until after the birthday part.

Speaker 1 15:21

Actually, I did this because I knew the episode was there you go, it's actually going to come after the episode.

Speaker 3 15:26

Is that the?

Speaker 2 15:27

secret that you haven't been telling me?

Speaker 3 15:28

No, it's much bigger. No, it's much bigger. Oh, yes, that is it. That is it. Glad to get that off my chest.

Speaker 2 15:33

Well, I'm not going to feel bad about it, but, lukey, he's going to hold on to that.

Speaker 1 15:37

I invited John's family to New Year's and not yours, so that's been on my mind this whole time and it's been kind of awkward.

Speaker 2 15:45

I've kind of been over here. No. No, I actually knew about that.

Speaker 1 15:47

Trying to avoid that.

Speaker 2 15:48

No, no.

Speaker 3 15:49

That's why we're doing this this is kind of like a we got to make this off the record. No, no.

Speaker 2 15:54

We're making this on the record right now. And this was actually an intervention for you two actually it's been reconciled. We reconciled this issue, but you know me, it's a topic. I just picked that little scab, right there. I'm just playing. Can we get to my three points, though, about feeling left out? I feel like you're going to say something. Kyle, did you want something off the record?

Speaker 3 16:18

No, Just this whole conversation. I already cleared it up with him that.

Speaker 1 16:24

Yeah.

Speaker 3 16:25

I invited him to coffee. Just the two of us Didn't invite you.

Speaker 1 16:29

I thought that was really thoughtful. I appreciated that very much. Yeah, I thought that was really thoughtful.

Speaker 2 16:33

I appreciated that very much. Okay, so how can we address this sting of feeling left out? Because, like I said, you can rationalize why you may have been left out, but it doesn't take the sting out of it. So just three little quick things. One, recognize the bias we just talked about, interpretation bias. We might be assuming exclusion when it wasn't intentional. Proverbs 18, 13 says if one gives an answer before he hears it, it is folly and shame. And that's the point. Just don't rush to conclusions about why we are left out of things.

Speaker 1 17:02

Oh yeah, you can really stick your foot in your mouth big time, if you say something.

Speaker 2 17:06

Well, and you also.

Speaker 1 17:08

Assuming that you know like oh they, let me out of this, you also?

Speaker 2 17:10

then, are putting bad feelings on people that they're harder to come off. You know like it's harder to get rid of a grudge, right? What if?

Speaker 3 17:19

there is a legitimate reason, and is there ever a situation where it'd be all right to tell someone like, dude, you have bad breath and that's why no one invites you over? Or like you, you, you talk way too much about this particular hobby and I'm glad, glad you brought that up.

Speaker 2 17:32

That throws people off, and that's when we should pray.

Speaker 1 17:36

Speaking of that, Kyle Just kidding.

Speaker 2 17:39

My second point was pray for discernment and healing. Ask God for healing from the past rejections. James 1.5 says if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives generously to all, without reproach, and it will be given to him. So when unsure about how to handle exclusion, just pray. Ask God for wisdom, Take a moment and in prayer you let those emotions subside and it'll be a little easier to handle.

Speaker 1 18:07

Can I add to that, please Point two before you move on to point three. Please point point two before you move on to three. I would say and this is a proverb, someone who, who may be, you know, like an independent third party and whom, who is wise, um, and and ask them what they think you should do.

Speaker 2 18:45

I've done that with a couple of friends where one of us was left out of something at some different time and I have. So we've kind of looked at each other and been like, hey, were you invited to that? Like okay, okay, I just we weren't. It was like, oh, you weren't you know, like you just kind of squared up and you'd be like yeah, I mean then that happens sometimes. Sometimes it's intentionally small, for a reason right.

Speaker 2 19:06

And so you just got to give people grace for that, and we'll talk about that a little bit more later. But also, if you feel like you have such a good relationship with that person and that's why it stings so bad, you should feel comfortable enough to calmly ask them. Hey, I heard that you did this and my feelings were a little hurt that we weren't invited. A lot of times, you know, people will just be like you know. You know that you're right, I'm sorry. I encourage us to don't sit with that. If it doesn't go away from prayer and from counsel, then take it to that person. If it's really going to last and sit there A lot of times, I'm okay with just letting those kinds of things go Bottling up and burying emotions is not healthy.

Speaker 1 19:49

But you have to be careful with stuff like that, because if if you're the type of person vulnerable at that point well, if you're the type of person who, like it, lets every little thing bother you, you get a reputation. Yeah, and then there's more things.

Speaker 3 20:03

Exactly, exactly, it gets in my head too, because now I think if I bring it up that I felt left out, next time I'm invited. It's a pity invite.

Speaker 1 20:13

Yes.

Speaker 3 20:17

And so now, now I'm shooting myself in the foot, but I get what you're saying, because I also think being bitter is clearly not the answer If you can't square it away and give people grace and let it go then.

Speaker 2 20:25

then you resolve it, just like the you know, just like the. Bible tells us to, and Matthew. So we need to take it to our brethren and resolve those things. But I would say, kyle, I'm open to a pity invite anytime. Okay, don't let that be the issue. I'm really okay with that, okay.

Speaker 1 20:42

Is that all of your teenage years Exactly?

Speaker 2 20:44

I've got low self-esteem. And so here's the last point, just for that. This first section is don't wait, initiate you like that. That's kind of good. Take the lead. If you feel left out, chances are others feel the same. And so start small. Invite someone to coffee, game night or a walk.

Speaker 3 21:02

What if someone's intimidated by? They want to be included, but they're intimidated by inviting? Is this just kind of a no-win, or is there?

Speaker 2 21:11

a way to baby step. That it might be. That's the thing is. It might feel vulnerable to open your door and to do that, but at the end of the day, take a risk. For example, true belonging in my life came when I chose to create it, and sometimes that's what you have to do.

Speaker 3 21:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 21:28

My parents gave me an example of hospitality and that really helped me. Growing up I started inviting others to hosting dinners or game nights or fantasy football leagues. Not everyone joined Enough did to build real connections and I stopped waiting to be included and I followed some good examples with my parents and people.

Speaker 1 21:47

I think you're very good at that and I think you are very good at that and I think that you've, um, I think you are very intentional with that. I mean, you're the one who really brought me in here here at church, cause, uh, I didn't grow up at Clovis and uh, yeah, I married into one of the families here but, um, I I just remember kind of feeling like, yeah, I was not on the outside, but not on the inside, and then you were very intentional about, you know, making a friendship and bringing me in, and that made a huge difference for me.

Speaker 2 22:18

I'm glad and that's one of those things is I could only sit in that self-pity for so long before, you know, I couldn't blame it on everyone else all the time. You know and sometimes that's the case too is there's a pendulum. There's two sides of this thing. People should be inclusive, but also sometimes we need to be that change. Sometimes we need to start that and initiate it ourselves. And if you have 10 guys out there, you're going to have two people that are inviting everyone to something. It's just statistically.

Speaker 2 22:50

It just doesn't happen a lot. 80-20. 80-20 rule there's not a lot of that and sometimes it becomes very comfortable for everyone to lean on a couple other people doing a lot of the inviting and things.

Speaker 3 23:01

Oh, we did a podcast on 80, 20.

Speaker 1 23:03

Yes, we did. It was it was it had to. Be sorry, I just caught up. It caught up.

Speaker 2 23:08

Yeah, it was one of the best ones so, anyways, don't hesitate, don't wait, initiate, um it's. It might be difficult for you to do that, but try it out there. I guarantee you, because of like the 80, 20, the statistics there, there's a lot of other people who aren't doing the same and waiting for someone to invite them as well. Someone will say yes yeah, you know are we going to talk about?

Speaker 3 23:28

when someone steals your thunder, like, let's say, you're really excited, you put yourself out there and you invite a bunch of people and find out that, oh well, they already have plans, someone else has an even bigger party, and they just stole my thunder and then now you go back in your shell. No, because, well, here's a lot of what ifs.

Speaker 2 23:45

Okay, I get that, but here's my, my perspective about that. Okay, a lot of the times, uh, taylor has said things to me too. A lot of the times Taylor has said things to me too. She says, well, that friend of yours is going and hanging out with this other person. Are you jealous? Right? And I'm like, okay, here's the thing is.

Speaker 2 24:01

I kind of feel like I have a lot of friends and that's a really great problem to have. What's your Dunbar number? I'm not going to tell you what mine is, but here's the thing is when I find out that one of my friends has a good connection with someone else, it actually brings my stress level down a little bit, because I don't feel like I am really great about spreading my connection around to enough people enough of the time, and I would much rather people develop multiple connections and not wait for me to invite them or put it all on me. So, honestly, I don't get very jealous with people when they make more connections, I do think, or some over here that I haven't gotten to yet. When I find out they're close friends with two or three people, I'm like awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 24:43

Great.

Speaker 2 24:44

Because I don't know that I have bandwidth all the time.

Speaker 1 24:47

I think that's a really healthy perspective and a mature perspective, because I don't think most people think that for when it's Kyle, and then I were you, and then I'll just get angry.

Speaker 2 24:56

Oh yeah, don't, don't have any other friends.

Speaker 1 24:58

Yeah, yeah, hang on, let me text my wife Please have.

Speaker 2 25:03

Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 25:05

Okay, Moving on to, so you know there's only like two kids that got on my. It's fine Dude.

Speaker 2 25:14

I it gonna mind. It's fine dude, I feel honored uh, that's all sorry, moving on.

Speaker 1 25:16

Yeah, usually those parties are like really big, it's all, my dog, it's all yeah. Well, um, we, it's so much work to do those big ones, uh-huh and so we're like we did a big one for their two-year-old, and then let's just taper it off I let this go um, okay what about when you might be the one?

Speaker 2 25:32

leaving people out. That's a great idea, kyle. So what happens, um, when you might be the one leaving people out? That's a great idea, kyle. So what happens when you might be leaving others out? So sometimes we're not the ones excluded, we're the ones who are accidentally doing the excluding, or purposely. So most likely, this is not malicious context.

Speaker 1 25:49

John was staring at me All right.

Speaker 2 25:52

So you guys are seeing this live action, how this actually is really important and plays out in everyday lives. This goes on all the time.

Speaker 1 26:00

Okay.

Speaker 2 26:00

And people will actually leave congregations, I think, because of some of these things. When they feel completely left out of stuff, they will look and seek out other relationships People leave congregations for way less than this.

Speaker 2 26:11

For way less than this, but I've heard multiple reasons after the fact that it was because of these kinds of things. So it's really important that we kind of go through this. That being said, most likely it's not malicious. It's probably an error of routine busyness or a lack of awareness. I've been there. I've left people out, sometimes unintentionally, and sometimes intentionally, for reasons that made sense at the time.

Speaker 1 26:32

Is that why I don't get the invite to D&D?

Speaker 2 26:35

You're not nerdy enough.

Speaker 1 26:39

You guys have invited me several times you need a bigger gut.

Speaker 2 26:42

Yeah, gut, okay so there are times when a smaller group is really better, especially when you're trying to bring someone into a new circle and like a new member at the church or someone who's still getting comfortable socially, a massive gathering can be overwhelming, but a smaller, quieter setting might be helpful to them. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 27:04

Like.

Speaker 2 27:04

I've tried to introduce more people and it's like to do that. Sometimes you're really intentional. It's like all your work is like on trying to include this one person.

Speaker 2 27:12

And when you're doing that, you kind of exclude some people. But then there are unintentional exclusions and, if I'm being honest, I've done the tiptoe dance where you're trying to gauge whether someone realized they weren't included. If they sense they had, you might reach out and explain, but if they hadn't, sometimes you let it go and not hide anything, but try to spare them the embarrassment of that. So I think these are just situations we've all been in. But let's face it, hospitality is complicated. Sometimes it's a games night. Only a few people can play. I mentioned sometimes a group dynamic where you're trying to make sure people already feel in the circle, feel comfortable while balancing new connections. And sometimes it's just math limited space, limited time but there are never excuses to stop caring. So have you guys ever wrestled with the challenge this is so like it's like we already had these conversations have you ever wrestled with a challenge of who to invite and when, and have you ever realized after the fact someone was feeling left out and that you planned for what did you do about it?

Speaker 2 28:25

Have you ever been the lever out Right.

Speaker 1 28:28

That's the lever outer. Every time Ashley and I plan an event, it's always we are the lever outers. We, literally we make this long list. She always goes, who should we invite? And I say, well, make a dream list and then we'll cut it from there. And so, like every time, you know, first cut John. Just kidding, john, we have to cut, yeah, and that's just part of it. And there have been a couple of times where it was kind of awkward because you know, we're talking out back with all the other parents and it comes up that, oh, friday was so much fun, and then so-and-so is standing there who was not invited, and you're, like Friday Shut it. What are you talking about? Yeah, well, it wasn't that fun.

Speaker 2 29:17

But that happens a lot when someone is either excited or the one's talking about it and maybe not very socially aware of that. Okay, well, there's a lot of people around here that weren't there and they might feel left out.

Speaker 3 29:31

Well, there was an instance where, you know, for New Year's we've had some people over over the years and this last year, for various reasons, we wanted a smaller group and that left Nate out and his family and I kind of picked up on it. He was asking around like after church one night what are you guys doing for New Year's? What about you guys?

Speaker 1 29:53

And I was not fishing.

Speaker 3 29:54

I had no idea no, and I think you were just legitimately like, well, it's new year's is anything you know, yeah, what's going on with people, what do we want to do? Like you were just kind of like, should we make something happen? That's, that was my vibe and, yeah, I think I can say I chickened out. I just kind of said I wasn't sure exactly, but I I did know that we were shrinking our list for this year for various reasons and I I should have just told you that on the spot. But afterwards, like a week or two later, I was like it was bugging me. So I felt I said you know, I texted you up and said Nate, let's go get coffee, you're off off work this week.

Speaker 3 30:32

It was like a uh, I don't know, winter break, winter break or something like that, and so I got coffee and just told you like, well, here's what happened, and we did a smaller list this year and it's just the way the list came out.

Speaker 1 30:43

But so after I and after I got done crying, I said you're forgiven, yeah.

Speaker 3 30:47

Well, nate didn't. Nate didn't start, he wasn't treating me badly, he wasn't like showing hurt feelings. This was more me. So it wasn't like Nate cried foul and I was like, okay, you know, let me do something to you know, give the baby a bottle or something. It wasn't like that, but it was bugging me that that Nate and a few other families like we did have to shrink down our list a little bit and I didn't like leaving people out, but that goes.

Speaker 3 31:11

Well and honestly, we were way overcrowded the previous year and honestly, that guilt.

Speaker 2 31:15

Sometimes that guilt triggers our perspective of value right Like if we feel really and honestly, maybe that's a good or bad thing. If you don't feel guilty, you left someone out, maybe you need to value that person a little bit more. But when you realize that you feel really guilty about that, maybe that's kind of showing you too that sometimes it's like, man, my value is actually right there and I should or would have wanted to. Then that can make you think about that for the next time.

Speaker 3 31:41

So it can be good. My two cents were just. If you find yourself in that position and you feel like do something about it, don't just ignore it and just acknowledge it and make sure the person knows that you still value them.

Speaker 2 31:55

And sometimes it's important for us men to lead this direction because we might not have the hurt feelings but we definitely won't show it the hurt feelings. But a lot of times it might be our spouse or our kids.

Speaker 3 32:07

I mean it's super hard.

Speaker 2 32:09

A lot of times I will. Actually I won't care. But if my kid feels left out of something like I just want to go to bat Right, like I'm like there's been birthday parties years ago where he was literally the only kid not invited, I just was like man to do that to my kid that just made me feel horrible for him right.

Speaker 2 32:28

I kind of then made that kind of like a thing with my kids. I always try to push it who else is in your class that you need to invite? You know, just because I was kind of worried about that. It's good that us men, it's good that we kind of shield and go to bat, and you know, sometimes I won't tell my kids if they weren't invited to something. Like I'm not going to let that one go, you know.

Speaker 1 32:48

There's some serious dynamics when you're talking about a family inviting other families over, because it's like you know, the husbands might be really close and the wives aren't as close, or the adults might be really close and the wives aren't as close, or the adults might be really close but their kids aren't, or whatever. You know, and do you know why? It's that sense, like we talked about in the beginning?

Speaker 2 33:06

Yeah, we all are ingrained with a strong sense of belonging, oh yeah. And when we don't feel that's there, it's of nature to feel left out and to feel like that fight or flight kind of mentality. It's like we naturally want to know. What about us would not be desired. Now, if we want, we can explore a little deeper why this is the case.

Speaker 2 33:38

So, statistically, our number of friendship peaks at age 21 and tends to decline from about 31 on. So life gets full careers, marriage, parenting, health and, without realizing it, we stop making room for new relationships and so they become more scarce and we have more feelings about to keep the ones we have. Also, there's a couple of biases as well that I like to look at. So there's in-group bias. Naturally, we favor people who are a part of our existing group or circle. For example, we gravitate to our usual friends and events, unintentionally leaving out newcomers. When you have a bias and I think we've talked about this before this is an area of psychology that is of interest to me, because I'm always interested in knowing why my brain defaults to a certain pattern, so that I can address it not so I can accept it all the time, but so I can address it. And one of the ways we can address this bias to just that we tend to look at our own personal group is we can follow James 2, verse 1 says show no partiality, and God calls us to see and love beyond our inner circle. And God calls us to see and love beyond our inner circle. So I think it's important that we recognize that we do tend to lean that direction and then we can adjust for it. There's also one that's called false uniqueness effect, and that is we assume our group is more welcoming or inclusive than it feels to outsiders. We're a friendly group, we think to ourselves, but we haven't really gone out of our way to bring in new people.

Speaker 2 34:59

Romans 12, 9 through 13 says Let love be genuine, contribute to the needs of all the saints and seek to show hospitality. It's not a passive suggestion. This is an act of command and we do need to make sure that we are striving to live it. So we can acknowledge that sometimes our brains do this and sometimes this is unintentional, but that is not an excuse for being complacent about it. Question is what are we doing proactively to notice and include others, people at home, who might you unintentionally be overlooking right now? What's one step you could take to connect with them this week? Put it on your calendar, reach out. It's a text. Okay, nate, you have sent me some texts before. That just made me feel like the only girl in the room.

Speaker 1 35:50

No, John, right now you are the only girl in the room.

Speaker 2 35:56

But sometimes you have sent me some really thoughtful texts that made my day and that's your gift. You have a gift for those texts, but it's something like that. That actually is just something someone can do to make someone feel really included and seen, and I think that that's a really important thing that it doesn't take in hospitality all the time.

Speaker 2 36:15

It doesn't take inviting and cleaning your house. It can just be thinking about someone and saying, hey, I'm thinking about you today, wanted you to know that I value your friendship and the beauty of technology is it's so easy to do.

Speaker 1 36:26

now, hey Siri, send John Bradford a text. She's going to answer.

Speaker 2 36:29

Okay, so the our third area here is building better cultures of inclusion. How do we fix this?

Speaker 3 36:36

Just invite more people to stuff. Sure Boom, there it goes.

Speaker 1 36:40

And thank you for listening.

Speaker 2 36:46

There it goes. My point here is is the church isn't meant to be as we look a little bit outside of our own circle and understand as brothers and sisters in Christ, we have obligations to each other as well. The church isn't meant to be a clique or club. It's a family where we embody Romans 15, 7, welcome one another as Christ says welcome you.

Speaker 2 37:00

So here's a cool part of that Dunbar's number again. Okay, most of us can realistically maintain around five meaningful relationships and 150 loose social ties. This means we don't have to be best friends with everyone. We can make room for people to feel seen though Right and, like I said with the text, with these things it's not always about you know. You're going to have some strong, really close friends that you enjoy doing things with. Yeah, and the way I address that is is I just make more time to do things with other people as well. You have to include everyone on everything. If you just include everyone on something and if you spend the time to do things intentionally with people, yeah.

Speaker 1 37:47

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you don't have to invite everybody to everything, but you should try to invite everybody to something. To something, yeah, just making people feel included and letting them know that you care. And just applying the golden rule, like if I was in this person's shoes, would I want someone to reach out to me, like, because the other thing is we don't know what everybody else is going through and they might really really need that 12%.

Speaker 2 38:12

don't say they don't have any friends. Oh, yeah, yeah. How terrible is that.

Speaker 1 38:18

Like let's apply that to our church. We have a congregation of 300 people. That means 36 people feel like they don't have a friend.

Speaker 2 38:25

You can be pro or con, like these group meetings, these encouragement group meetings, but at the end of the day, understand, I statistically looked at a lot of our groups and stuff and talked to the elders and was just like there are people who don't feel connection. And making these groups beneficial wasn't to make an attendance check, it was to provide an opportunity, for the people that are going to come are the people who need it, and so facilitators do not feel sad that people aren't showing up to these things, because the ones that are showing up are the ones that need it and that's what it's for. Amen, so it's really important. Um, and people in my life has shown me that too Um, norton and Beth die. Years ago I was always kind of, uh, I always thought it was really great where they would invite people over for lunch on Sunday afternoon and somehow they made like enough for an extra 10 people that that Beth decided to invite last.

Speaker 3 39:19

They had about six regulars yeah they were always at their house every sunday.

Speaker 2 39:22

Um, you know, there was a widower, there was a couple of of single people and so they had their regulars, but they she would make enough food for, like you said, she could invite up to another 10 to 12 people extra and, yeah, and then their uh, friday night bible class, like they just cut that sheet cake in smaller pieces and like another 10 people would show up and I know, whatever they did I'm always in awe of I think Mark and Terry do that really well too is when people can just accommodate so many people and then they can just open it up and I'm like man, I got to figure out how to do that, because that's one of those worries all the times is, you want to be able to just be like do you have any plans today? You know any advice you might have to be more intentional about and be inclusive.

Speaker 3 40:05

I got some. I got some advice here. If if you're not comfortable with people coming to your house all the time, get creative and find some things that are all inclusive, that accommodate that scenario of oh, we forgot about them. Well, we can, we can invite them. It's not like we have a set number.

Speaker 3 40:23

So you know, we play pickleball on Sunday nights and, yeah, there's probably an overall limit, but there's still a lot of space at the tennis courts we go to. So it still feels like like today, joe, our tech deacon at church was was there and I was talking about pickleball and John's like you're going to come tonight, joe, and he's like, oh, you're playing tonight. Yeah, so it's not at anyone's house, it's a public place. We're going and there's room for more people. So, like in summertime, here we've we've got a place called Pelicans. They do shaved ice and and it's easy to just you can invite add-ons all you want, because it's not like it's in my home and I've got a limited space or my home isn't clean, it's just there around the corner and anyone that wants to come along, and so find those opportunities where you can be free to invite as many people, and that makes it easier to not leave people out.

Speaker 1 41:11

We used to do that with Frisbee golf. Now you got to have like discs for the golfing part, right, but if you have an extra one, you just you know, and no sense of pride. Yeah well, that's true.

Speaker 2 41:23

Yeah, well, and I want a little shout out there. Brian and amber in the volleyball at their house during the summertime, yeah and then hosting food for everyone. Like they don't leave anyone out, they they let it so thoughtful we'll just open another net if we have too many people, and so that is always like a really great example and I love doing that with my kids to take them out there.

Speaker 3 41:40

There's maybe a third angle. You talked about covering both sides of this. There's maybe a third side. This is not. This is not a coin. It's some sort of triangular prism, or a three-sided dice, if you will. Um, what if you are the one that keeps getting invited and saying no, because I'll say Chris Ratliff, if you're listening, I will go disc golfing with you at some point.

Speaker 3 42:03

He has invited me like three Saturdays in a row and and I've told him Saturdays are difficult for me and I don't want him to think I'm leading him on. But that's a tough spot to be in. To reassure people If you have to say no multiple times in a row, reassure them, as I'm trying to do with Chris right now. I'm not avoiding you. It just didn't work, so don't give someone the impression that you are purposefully refusing If someone invites you. If you're able to do it, follow up with it.

Speaker 2 42:32

You're right, kyle, if you're invited, you should go. One, it encourages those people to keep on doing it. But two and that's what we're supposed to do we're supposed to edify and encourage one another and sometimes just going to things that people are putting themselves out there is an encouragement to people and that's what we should be doing. Also, if you have an opportunity to invite, seek those who need encouragement. Maybe not all the time, maybe it's not every single thing you do, but find opportunities where you can seek out those people who need that encouragement. Well, let's wrap this up here.

Speaker 2 43:02

So, as we close, I want to reaffirm something simple but important Everyone needs engagement and friendship. Friendships are important. They offer belonging support, boost happiness, reduce stress, improve health. They help develop empathy, communication, conflict resolution skills. They help develop empathy, communication, conflict resolution skills. Building meaningful relationships is vital for overall well-being.

Speaker 2 43:22

So some people are content in a very small circle, and that's okay. But those who feel satisfied with those close connections, I want to gently challenge you to think about what you have to give. There are people out there who don't have what you have and you could be the encouragement they need. So sometimes you feel like, well, I don't need that for myself. But we are to look at our talents. You're not supposed to bury them. We're supposed to seek out what our opportunities are for other people. So that's that. Now, if you're one of those who already feel stretched, maxed out on time and energy, I get that too. Not everyone can carry more, but that just means the rest of us need to lean in and do our part. Let's remember the church didn't grow just through preaching. It grew through connection, through people being in one another's homes, through brotherly love. That was felt and not just talked about. So I want to challenge each of us this week to think about someone whom we might be able to include, who needs a text, an invite or a seat at the table, who could we reach with simple friendship?

Speaker 2 44:28

And for those who are listening and feeling left out, I want to leave you with two things. First, I want to ask you to forgive people. I know that's hard when you feel overlooked or forgotten. It hurts, but so often it's not intentional. Second, I want you to hold on to this phrase. If it is to be, it's up to me. Sometimes we have to be the ones to take the first step. Who invite, who reach out? Who open the door, and maybe you will, and maybe not many people will show up. But keep going, keep trying, because connection is not a sprint, it's a marathon and you are not alone in that journey. So Romans 15, 7, I'll leave you with this. Therefore, welcome one another, as Christ has welcomed you. For the glory of God, amen.

Speaker 3 45:10

Well, thank you for listening today and thank you, john, for leading our discussion and you've given us a lot to chew on, john, and a lot to think about. Both when we feel left out and when we're the ones inviting, we want to make sure we're as inclusive as we can and not letting anyone feel like they're on the outside looking in. Ultimately, we are to be a family within the body of Christ. We're a body. When one member hurts, we all hurt and we weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. We need to be interconnected and, yeah, we can't be perfectly balanced in our friendships, but we need to make as big an effort as we can. Well, thanks, guys, for listening and if this episode has been helpful to you or given you something to think about, we're glad to be of value to you and hope you'll tune in about every week for new episodes. Thanks for listening. Catch you next time.

Speaker 1 46:04

Welcome to the Exhorter podcast, where we drink coffee together and talk.

Speaker 2 46:10

And talk.

Speaker 1 46:11

That's about right.

Speaker 2 46:13

Okay, don't leave out liking and subscribing to our podcast we don't want you to feel you don't want us to feel left out reciprocate, there we go and a podcast on 8020.

Speaker 3 46:32

Yes, we did. It had to be, it just caught up it was one of the best ones. My processing is slow on.

Speaker 1 46:40

Sundays.

Speaker 2 46:41

No, you work today.

Speaker 1 46:43

Sorry about my friend, he's a little slow. The town is back that way.

Speaker 3 46:49

What movie is that from? Oh, stop, stop.

Speaker 1 46:53

Were you really asking?

Speaker 2 46:54

We have to stop the podcast right now until you tell us what it is you know.

Speaker 1 46:59

You don't know.

Speaker 3 47:00

Well, I could tell you and totally redeem myself. Okay, but I won't Thank you.

Speaker 2 47:04

All right.

Speaker 1 47:06

When you said don't wait, initiate, I was like oh so if you know someone is having an event, just go, man, just go, just invite yourself over. Hey bro, I heard you're having this thing at your house, can I come?

Speaker 2 47:21

I just did the third quote right there, I got that.

Speaker 1 47:22

We haven't done a Star Wars reference.