82 - Are We "Planting Thorns"? with guest Phil Robertson

Are we planting thorns in our homes? What if the biggest threats to your child’s faith look like good opportunities on the calendar? In this episode, we sit down with Phil Robertson to explore how Jesus’ warning about the “thorns” (Matthew 13:7) still applies today—sports, school, screens, and busy schedules that quietly choke out spiritual growth.

Together, we unpack how parents can cultivate hearts that love God above all, using Matthew 6:19-21 as our guide. Phil shares practical wisdom from his own family—how to set priorities around worship, balance activities with conviction, and keep conversations about faith alive at home.

If you’ve ever felt torn between giving your kids every opportunity and guarding their souls, this conversation will help you find peace, perspective, and purpose.

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to the Exhorter Podcast, where it is our aim to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical conversation. Today you got me, Kyle, you got John, but no Nate today. Instead, we got Phil Robertson all the way here from Temple Terrace, Florida. He works with the college down there, Florida College. And uh I know him from some of my work with the summer camps that the college does. And he works with the summer camp there in Florida, and now he works with the college, and he works with the church in Valrico, Florida. We've got him here this week in Clovis to do a gospel meeting for us, and it's been a wonderful experience just through day one so far, learning about proactive parenting and how to uh manage the dangers and the risk that comes with technology. As much as it might be tempting, we can't just live in a commune and uh turn away from technology. Um what was that one Shyamalan movie where was it the village or yeah, where where you thought it was like 400 years ago, but no, they just live like that. You know, we can't. I've never seen that movie, you just ruined it. So tempting. Okay, yeah, that's what is Shyamalan. You know, it's it's got a magapretz that kind of twists in it. All right. Um, so as tempting as that would be to live in a commune away from all technology, you just can't avoid it. So we got to learn to manage it properly. We've had some great conversation, and that's brought up some other questions that have come up that we're gonna explore a little bit today with Phil. So, Phil, we're really glad to have you with us today and uh on the Exhorter podcast and uh have a good little conversation with you for the next few minutes and something I think the the listeners will really enjoy. Thank you, Phyllis.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Yeah, it's great to have you here. Um, one of the things you mentioned in one of the lessons was I think it was a conversation your wife was having with um a Bible study that she runs, and that was the advice of make sure you're not planting thorns. And obviously, we're referring to um Matthew 13, um, the parable of the soil. And one of those soils was, you know, um, as I'll read it here, uh other seeds fell among the thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. And it just explain to me the background and and what you meant by that and what the what the thorns would represent in the context of the sermon.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, uh one of the things that we uh were very careful and but at the same time we struggled with was we wanted our kids to be well-rounded. We want them to have lots of opportunities to experience different things, whether it's sports or music or even academic challenges. When they got older, we wanted them to learn how to work and work for others, whether it was a summer job or just other ways to make money. And we wanted them to have that experience and experience all those things, but at the same time, we always had a concern. We did not want to plant something in their heart that became such a predominant part of their lives that it impeded on their ability to grow and to thrive spiritually. And I'll just kind of give you an example. I love sports, love it, love it. Uh, love to go to college football games, love to play golf, love just if you're keeping score, I'm there. It doesn't matter what it is. Yes, love competition and and thrive on that kind of association and challenge. And so it shouldn't surprise you, my son likes the same things. But if you're not careful, and we had seen this so many times with so many other families and so many other kids, that love for sports, let's just focus on that. While it can be a blessing and it can teach a lot of good lessons of teamwork and competitiveness and overcoming challenges and thriving and uh dealing with defeat and has so many good, it can become a curse quickly when it becomes the predominant focus of life. And there's nothing wrong with sports, but when it begins to take the place of spiritual opportunity, spiritual growth, well, it's kind of what Jesus was saying here with the thorns, the cares of the world can choke out the word. And so when my wife, who is really the brains behind our operation, let's just be honest, when she would speak to ladies' groups or, you know, just the ladies' Bible class at church, she began to share this through the parable of the soils that you want to be careful that you didn't plant something in the heart of your children that would grow and eventually choke out the word because ultimately you want your kids to have a relationship with Jesus. You want that to be the predominant focus of their life. And I just lived with the fear that one day they would grow up and what I had inadvertently planted in their heart became the predominant focus of their life, and it choked out that spiritual growth. And so there was always that concern and a need for balance.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I I could see how a lot of these things begin in in a very innocuous kind of way where there is value to it, obviously. Like sports is the illustration you first brought up. Uh, and and just for defining it, I'm looking in Mark chapter four. Um, people always go to Matthew on this one. I like Mark chapter four because Jesus says, Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? I think he's saying this is the most important one. It's the key to understanding them all. But in Mark chapter four, he says that the one uh sown among the thorns is concerned with the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches. And so that's another example my mind went to is in sports, there's valuable lessons about teamwork, about working hard to accomplish something. There's value in it. But what about the pursuit of riches? We want to train our kids. I want my children to be able, I've got girls, and you know, that's uh I jokingly say this. Yeah, you know, if they don't go to college, girls can always just marry rich, right? But I say that jokingly, but obviously not seriously. I want my girls to be able to grow up and learn skills and be able to earn some income. And that's what we all want for our children. But then where, where, where is the line drawn where they become focused on riches to where that becomes uh the weeds that choke out the word, where they're so focused on uh being career-driven and pursuing uh you know mobility up the ladder to a point where they're choked out to any concern. So I just thought that was another example that that Jesus highlights about the uh concern for riches. That, well, on the surface, it it seems innocuous that we want to train our children to be providers, to have skills, to be able to work and earn a living. That's another one that can get carried away and become something that chokes out the word, is that that uh career-driven persona.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah, and that was our concern with uh summer jobs or any kind of opportunity to make some money. I wanted them to learn those skills and certainly learn them at home so that I can help develop their attitude and their mindset with respect to having a healthy, uh, as you might say, uh attitude toward working. But at the same time, you have to have that balance. And all of us run into this. Anybody that's had any kind of job, you're gonna have to make some decisions at times, uh, whether it's a conflict with Bible services, maybe a Sunday or Wednesday, or it's an opportunity to make extra money, but it means a lot more overtime, keeps you away from home, maybe away from the family, or you you take a job and it requires a lot of travel that keeps you away. You you constantly have to weigh those things. And and the Lord's trying to make a very important point to us. You and I both have to understand there is a point where we can be deceived and things can choke out the word. And I I just wanted to be careful, especially with my kids, that we didn't create something that went far beyond what we intended and wanted it to be in their lives. And they did not thrive and grow spiritually. So that that's that was to me the point with this. And and you can see that with technology. I didn't want to put a phone in their hand or put any kind of device in their hand that that would choke out their spiritual development and growth and whether it was moral or it just kept them away uh from other people and they weren't socially interacting. And so I that's just one of the biggest challenges of parents. And so you just got to be on top of it.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Yeah, and let let's let's expand on the idea of thorns here for a second, because I do want to get into some practical maybe tips and and thoughts about, you know, um addressing the the idea of how do we know they're thorns and then how you know, how do we know if it's gone too far. As I would think them, thorns could be um we mentioned sports and activities that take up our time overemphasis on those things, academic pressure, success um as an identity in our lives, excessive entertainment. We've been talking about technology and TV, video games, social media phones, um, peer pressure and friendships, that social aspect that you were talking about. Uh, we want our kids to be everyone wants their kids to be valued and wanted because we all maybe we all have to want them to fit in and find a crowd where they have friends.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

And the idea of sometimes we'll introduce them into worlds primarily as a as a opportunity for them to make friendships that maybe they don't have. You know, we'll find opportunities for that. Um uh materialism, desire for things, a lot of the times we wanting your kids to have things you didn't want, a lot of times we can get into this mode where we we dote on our kids, or maybe we are well off and we want to have nice things. So those I feel like could be thorns in their lives. But also just busyness and overscheduling, right? The distractions of this life. So if those all those things could be thorns, they're not bad, right? You mentioned innocuous, then they're not bad on their own. And we all want to find the time and the place and the balance. You mentioned balance, and a lot of the times I feel like there was some conversations last night in a Q ⁇ A where where your suggestion to people was you gotta find the balance. So my question with that is is a lot of advice might say just balance the spiritual with world activities, but how do you know if you're actually balanced? When do you know? Because a lot of times I feel like you don't you know when when you're unequally yoked after you you don't want to do something now that could have an effect later. And how do we know?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Oh, that's it. Well that that's the million-dollar question, uh, clearly. Uh here's what we did, and here's how here's how we kind of navigated this. You mentioned uh the goals, or as we saw it, it's the uh Stephen Covey, begin with the end in mind. And so what we had was for our children were clear, defined ambitions and desires that we had for them in these areas of their life. Here's where we wanted them to be spiritually. You know, we we wanted them to not just be churchgoers, we wanted to train them to be servants in the Lord's church. We wanted them to become active participants in the kingdom. It wasn't just that we wanted them to be merely a believer, but a true believer who had a deep passion for the word. And so my my wife looked at it like this. She wanted our children to grow to where they would be a blessing to others. And I had the prayer, I wanted my children to be a servant to others. So you have this idea, and you have, if you might just say, okay, here's the target, here's where we want to go. And so what you do is every single day or when you're at a new season of life, you kind of evaluate, are we headed toward that target? Is this where we want to go? And so we you keep that always clearly in front of you so that when you might find yourself deviating, oh wait, sports is taking up a little too much time. It's we can see it's impeding on that, or or or music or whatever else is taking up too much time, we're always drawn back to where we want to be. And it kind of goes in the line of what Jesus was saying in Matthew 6. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Make sure what is first is first. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Well, I think clearly defining the objective is very important because I've known, in my experience, people I grew up with or or families that I've seen, I've I've known of families where busy, busy, busy, sports left and right, but we always make it to church. But that was none of them, and some of those families, none of them go to church anymore. None of the kids grew up and kept going to church, although they they always made it on Sundays. And I wonder if maybe the issue there was carving up time for church is important. But if that is the sum total of your objective that you're trying to define, you know, begin with the end in sight. Well, if it's just getting them to church and that's really it, you don't have bigger vision for developing their spirit or making them servants or something bigger than just attending church. Doesn't matter that that was important enough that it you always did church over sports. If it's not what you were passionate about, it's not what your kids will be passionate about. You had the time for it, but it wasn't the center of your life.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Well, and and that's I think that's a great point. Uh, when you think of it, Kyle, the apple is never going to fall that far from the tree. And rarely do our children rise above the level of commitment than what they've seen in their parents.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

And that's the team is only as strong as his weakest member, kind of thing. Right. That's that kind of analogy.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah. And and so we wanted to make sure our kids saw, well, we need to, if I want them to be servants in the kingdom, if I want them, I've got to be a servant in the kingdom. And and that's hard. I I tell you one of here, I'll give you a classic example is well, we wanted to use our home as a place to share the kingdom. Uh it's kind of like, do you remember the old motel six? We'll leave the light on for you. Well, we wanted the light to always be in our home. So group meetings, team devotions, gatherings. And and if you're a person that has your home open like that, that's a lot of work. It's a ton of work. It's a lot of cleaning, uh, it's a lot of preparation, it's a lot of cleanup after it's over. I mean, it it requires a lot of work. And and I'll just be honest with you, and this is definitely not to discourage it in any way, that there's times where you're doing that and prepping for that and you're going, okay, this is a too much work. And this is driving me crazy. There's you start fighting with one another about this, that, and the other as you're getting it set up. But when you get done with it and you see the blessings that come from it, you go, okay, it's all worth it. And then one day if you get to enjoy this, and this is one of the greatest blessings in life, when your kids call and you say, Hey, what's been going on? And they say, Yeah, I had the high school over at my house tonight. I'm like, What? Yeah, yeah, we had them all over tonight, or or I had the New Year's party at my house tonight, or or I had the all the ladies that I work with, we had a little Bible study at my house tonight. You you have those moments where you you expect somebody to take a big barrel of Gatorade like you just won the Super Bowl and dump it on you. That's your that's your celebration as parents. But the only reason your kids are probably going to do that is if they saw that in you. Yeah. And so you you've got to begin with the end in mind. And if you're going to be a person that's going to be hospitable like that, that means you've got to give up some things. Uh, that means you're not going to everything. That means you have to reel it in on other things that maybe you could do that are not wrong, but you didn't take that weekend vacation, or you didn't get make that getaway all the time, or you didn't get involved in that travel ball team because you wanted to be hospitable first and foremost. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

I think that's properly evaluating uh and appraising the importance of things in life. Is my treasure here or is it am I storing up treasure in heaven? What's the what's the more important goal? And sometimes I'll text my friends and just say, I'll be over in 30 minutes, uh, and and then I won't respond to any more texts. And then I'll text him 30 minutes later and be like, Well, your house is clean now, so you're welcome. But my dad, my dad would bring me along. I don't remember how little I was, but I can go as far back as I can remember. I I've helped people um move when they sold a house or or moved up to a bigger house or people that moved into town, uh, new members at church. I remember going to help move people. And it and I I just think about bringing my kids who are probably the same age as me. And it's easier if I just leave them at home. Oh much easier. But I think my and I probably wasn't much help, and I probably was more a distraction than anything. But my dad would try and put me to work. And I think this is important. He's trying to show me something about this is important that we help people, and it was more work for him to bring me than not, probably. But it in his mind, I think it was worth it to try and teach me the value of being there for people.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah. And if I can think, if I can take this a step further, especially hanging out with dad, uh, I was blessed with a dad who did the same stuff. Uh and I was also blessed to grow up in a time that you didn't have devices like crazy, but we did have television. And and television was what you would hear preachers preach on all the time. Too much television, too much this, that, and the other. And you look back on it now and you're like, man, that was the Andy Griffith days compared to what we have now. But my dad wanted me to go with him, and and he would make sure he took me with him. Uh, he would also preach in uh smaller congregations around. And I can remember even very little. I mean, I'm talking about first grade, second grade. I would get up early with dad at five in the morning. So he and I could ride together all the way to Spur, Texas. And I grew up in West Texas. So whatever is in your mind when you think of Spur, Texas, it's exactly what it is. I mean, it's just like an old cowboy western. You just drive out out in the middle of absolute nowhere. And to go with him and to be with him and to have that journey with him and experience that with him, that was pure gold. And so it was our time to interact, it was our time to talk. And I would sit and listen to him preach, and then we'd go sit at somebody's home. They would have us over for dinner. It was an all-day affair. But the point was, he was teaching me through his example, this is what's important. And he made sure that I went with him. And I and now looking back on it, that had to be a just a pain.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah. Well, and I need I need encouragement like this because as a preacher, I I gotta go visit uh, you know, uh, I got to go visit folks in their home. And sometimes you get these older folks that have little glass trinkets everywhere, and it's it it's scary to bring my wrecking ball of a daughter uh into these homes. And and so I need this this reassurance that that there is some value and I need to stick with it. So I appreciate hearing that.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Well, and my kids went with me too. I would do Bible studies in in, you know, just assisted living facilities. And so they would go with me. Uh, we it was every Thursday night. This is in Bessermere, Alabama, when we lived in the Birmingham area, and I would take them with me. And and they would sit there quietly and read, or they would just listen. And in just that time is something that was so ingrained in them that they talk about it now. Uh, one of the things we would do on the way over there was so fun, is that there was a railroad track that had a big hump in it. And so I I would pick up the speed a little bit and we would do a little star skiing hutch over that thing. Oh, and they'd get all excited. Their heads would hit the top of the car, uh, you know, as we bounced over it and we'd make the block and do it again.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Uh, my girls love the whoop-de-doos.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yeah, yeah. But you would try to make some fun as a part of the journey, as well as just sitting there in the Bible study. But to this day, they remember that. And and it was a positive in their life. Uh was it a lot more effort to take them? Oh, absolutely. But then we would always make sure on the way home we also went and hit Krispy Kreme or something like that. Right. Because I knew I was asking a lot of them, but it was that bonding time. And to me, that was just as important, just as important. This may sound odd, as going to a Wednesday night Bible study or even going to church on Sunday from the standpoint you got to learn how to serve others. And so it's it's just important. And I and so it's what are you wanting to plant in your kids' heart? What are you wanting to really flourish in them? Make sure that's in there.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

It sounds like step one begins with having uh uh well, what's the Stephen Covey idea again? Begin with the begin with the end in mind. Where's your goal? Where do you want to be? So in a bigger picture than just now, I think that's probably the next component is you want to prioritize things like Sunday and Wednesday, those because I I remember that with with my experience with sports, or believe it or not, even though I'm I'm big and tall and incredibly athletic looking, I was actually a band geek. And so for me, it was music. Uh, and I had a job when I turned 15. My dad said, You can drive a car that I own, but it's not your car. If you want to go have fun with your friends and go see a movie, you got to pay for your own gas, pay for your own movie. I'll I'll pay for you to get to school and back. I'll pay, you know, gas for you to get to places you need to go. If you want to have fun, you know. So he had me working, but I had to make it clear with my boss if it was going to conflict with Wednesday or Sunday, I was going to put in my two weeks' notice and find a different job. So we had clear defined priorities. So it sounds like that's an important component, but maybe step one is start with a clear picture of what you want to accomplish with your kids and maybe shoot for or aim a little higher than just get them to church on Sunday. Maybe raise the bar a little bit above that.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Or a lot above that. Yeah, I'd say raise it a lot above that and and make sure you're showing that to them as much as possible. Because we're always planting. We're always, but you got to recognize every single day you're planting something in their heart. And so you want to make sure you're planting something that you really want to flourish and and flourish in a way that's going to help them more than anything grow closer to King Jesus. And so uh the things that we had in mind, okay, begin with the end in mind. Spiritually, where do you want them to be? Uh, academically, where do you want them to be? Socially, how they interact with others and and relate to others. It was very important for me to teach my kids soft skills and how they could communicate and relate to all demographics. Uh and I was a communications major. Uh, probably you're probably not too surprised by that. Uh, but I I wanted them to be able to feel comfortable in front of an audience or in front of a group making presentations or sharing ideas and thoughts or speaking up. And then, and then you wanted them certainly to thrive in a way mentally where they had good self-image uh and they had uh self-esteem, but they also had confidence and humility, which is a challenge. So you kind of have these goals, and what you know, what am I doing? How am I helping them get there? And what could I possibly be putting in their life that would hinder that? Uh, and so that that was important as well. And uh, I'll I'll take it a step further. Here's here's something too that we saw as a challenge. We wanted our kids to be around a lot of good kids. And so you try to manipulate their environment, but at the same time, I wanted them to learn how to associate with kids who may not always be good. Now, just follow me on this one. So I wanted them to have that interaction where they saw where somebody misbehaved and they could see the challenge and hopefully be a good influence, but also learn how to say, well, that's not somebody I need to be hanging around too much with. I didn't want them in such a cocoon that they never had the challenge of dealing with somebody who had different thoughts or ideas. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Can I can I ask a practical question related to that? So you you you guys homeschooled, right? That's one of the that's one of the things that that has given me pause. There's pros and cons, I think, no matter which route you take. And we've chosen homeschooling, but that is one of the concerns. I grew up in the largest public high school in the state of Oregon, and I saw I we were out in the suburbs, so I didn't see too, too bad of things, but there was definitely some vice. There was definitely some influences that that I saw, and defining moments in my life where some of my friends started getting into alcohol and I chose to disassociate from them. And and I think that was important that I was in an environment where I faced things like that and had to choose for myself. But I also want to keep my kids from some of the things I saw and heard. And so that's one of my big concerns with homeschooling is am I sheltering them too much? How do I prepare them? So, how if you homeschooled, how did you what what kind of situations did they have those experiences where they they got to interact with kids that maybe had different values or didn't behave quite the same way?

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Yeah. Well, for us, it was sports opportunities. Okay. So uh we would play sports with the local YMCA or with the local community soccer league, or my son would play basketball, you know, for a you know, community school or Christian school. So they were they were having to have those interactions. And and here's what's interesting was it was kind of especially at the when we were with the Y, okay. So this is the YMCA uh in the Birmingham area. So you literally had all demographics, you had all backgrounds. And where we actually lived, you had a lot of kids who lived in some very challenging situations. So when you go to soccer practice and your dad's the coach and you have a kid being sassy, you know, my kids immediately go, oh, uh oh, dad's gonna bring the boom. Well, dad was not bringing the boom. He was a little more patient with them than he was with his own kids. And I remember that discussion, you know, get the car. Hey, Dad, they talked back to you. If we had done that, I'd say, Yeah, well, it's a different situation here. I'm having to work through this because you don't know a lot of, well, I think that's wrong. And so, well, the more they got to hang around those kids, and they said, Well, wait a minute, they only have one parent coming to the game, or why is their grandparents always bringing them? They began to notice differences. And I said, Well, that's affecting their attitude. And and probably the biggest thing that ever happened, you know, in that realm that really taught our kids a great lesson in that regard was one day I had one of the other coaches say, Hey, can you take Tweety Bird home tonight? Tweety was an awesome soccer player, just an awesome her name was actually Makaiah, but she went by Tweety Bird. And so I said, Yeah, Tweety, I'll take you home. And so it's, you know, imagine a late after soccer practice, it's eight o'clock at night. And we all hop in the minivan with my kids and and Tweety's in the back. I said, Tweety, where do you live? And she goes, I live in an alley. And I went, Alley? Tweety Bird was a huge cut-up. She was a lot of fun. And so I said, Okay, Tweety, I need you to be serious for a moment. Where do you actually live so we can take you home? And she goes, Coach Phil, I live in an alley. And I remember looking in the rearview mirror and I could see my kids sitting there, and they're both going, What? Dad, you're not buying this, are you? Seriously? And I said, Okay, Tweety, I'm gonna start driving. I have a general vicinity of idea of where you live. And so I started driving, and we went over some railroad tracks that my car had never been over before. An area of town I'd never been to. And I remember turning on this street, and I was between 16th and 17th Street, and Tweety Bird said, Turn left here. I live down this alley. And again, I said, Tweety, don't be cutting up. It's late. You need to get back to Coachville. I live in this alley. And we drove down that alley. I got down about four or five houses, and there was an old car port. Imagine an old car port. It was probably built in the 40s. A 40-watt ball burning right outside on the outside. You could see through the screen door carpet, not even cut in, just laid on the floor, mattresses on the floor. And Tweety said, I live here. And I said, Tweety, where's your dad? She goes, I don't know my dad. I said, Well, where's your mom? Well, my mom's in prison. I said, Tweety, who do you live here with? She goes, My grandma. Well, where's your grandma? Well, she works the night shift at Bud Cookie. I said, Who's here with you now when I drop you off? And she said, My brother. I said, Your brother's twelve. He goes, Yeah. I said, That's not that's not acceptable. It was about that time uh an aunt came walking down the alley. Toward me. Hey Coach Phil, Coach Phil, thanks for bringing Tweety home. And I was like, This is where they actually live. Yeah. I said, that's unacceptable. And so it was at that moment that I realized I'm trying to teach my kids a lesson, but I needed to learn a lesson. That Tweety was more than a soccer player. And I haven't looked beyond the soccer field to really look at her life. And I didn't even know it until I had that opportunity to take her home. Well, immediately I went into action. We found her family a place to live. Certainly more suitable than an alley, garage in an alley, and members from the church help us furnish the house and get it all set up for them. But that image was so powerful for my kids that they got to see and experience. Not everybody has the blessings that they do. And you're certainly a lot more understanding when somebody is sassy. Yeah. And they come from that background because they don't have that parental direction. I wanted my kids to experience that. And so I had to, I had to, you know, almost not manufacture it, but make sure that was a part of their life so that they didn't grow up in a cocoon.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Right. Yeah. I I love it that their whole world revolves around the church and their church friends. But I also, as we're talking about, are we, what, what, what path are we setting them down? And I don't want to set them down a path where they don't know how to be a light to the world, where they don't know how to bring people to Christ because they don't know how to interact with people that aren't in Christ. And so that is a concern I have and really appreciate your feedback on that idea there.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

And it's also good for your kids to experience those situations where you're going and working with people in challenging circumstances. Because I can remember my son getting back in the car after we helped somebody who really just had a lot of bad going on in their life. And a lot of it was because of their bad decisions. And yet we're still there trying to help and serve. And my son was a part of that. And I remember getting back in the car. And the first thing my son said was, and that's why you stay in school. And you're right. Yeah. That's why you stay in school. But this is also somebody that we need to love. Just because they've made bad decisions doesn't mean you give up on them. But he learned that lesson. And that that became a powerful image in his brain. And and I want my children to be sympathetic and servants to all people. So it's good for them to be around the church kids all the time, the camp kids all the time, but they need to experience the other world and they need to be a servant to that world.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

My kids are homeschooled right now. And so my son, for example, my son went to uh public school for a number of years, and when just reflecting on like going into eighth grade this last year, he was just he didn't have a lot of friends in there, but he's not that kind of kid who doesn't have friends. And I was so I was trying to figure out why. And he's just, Dad, they're kids are just dumb. They're they're bad. They use language. And I was a little concerned for that reason of of maybe taking him out of that, like that space. But he has a rich group of friends and relationships in the church here. When he came home from school, he would just get online and talk to his friends and hang out, and or go walk down the the block and go visit a couple of them that live nearby and go to the park. And so it it he had that social aspect of it, but when he was telling me he didn't like those influences, you know, then I was starting to okay, well, I I I get that, and I feel good about that, that it's not something he feels like he needs to be a part of. And then it was funny you mentioned Fortnite the other night, um, because uh the whole row, the front row, those kids were like looking at each other, going, oh no, what's gonna happen? Because they all get it's like four or five kids, no, five or six of them, they all log on and they talk to each other. They play Fortnite with each other.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Fortnite's fine as long as you take the headphones off.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

That was but here's the thing is uh I it was sometimes when the headsets are broken, you can hear all the audio through the TV. And so all these kids, they always break their headsets. So every once in a while you're you're getting these conversations. There was one night where I could tell there's some kids from from one of their schools on there too, or something, and he said something like, language kids, you know, you sound like Captain America, but language, and he's calling out, and then another time he said, This is my friend, be nice to him, or something like this. And I was like, Okay, well, I'll let this play out a little longer here, because I was I was hearing the traits and hearing those values, and I was I was a little taken back because I'm like, I don't know that I've had those expressed conversations with him. Some of the stuff he's picked out on his own, whether it's emulating and seeing from other people or just knowing. And that's kind of how I was raised. I wasn't I didn't have my my dad didn't like take me out and teach me these lessons as as they were. I feel like I just soaked it up around him. One of the things I've appreciated from this conversation with you and and these lessons is it's just that proactiveness. Um, and I think sometimes I feel like I'm good because I have good kids. But Kyle, when you were talking about people who uh uh who had fallen away from the church, I I guarantee you most of their parents felt like their kids were good. Maybe we can talk now just a little bit about how do you know when you're on the wrong path. I mean, so we we've talked a little bit about here, obviously if your kid's living in a carport, and and uh that was a touching story there, but uh to be practical, like if if obviously you can see those big things in your life that aren't right, but sometimes when we're looking ahead, we did we can't see those things. So if we're along that journey raising our kids, what are some things that might show up that kind of give you cause or make you self-reflect, should you should stop there, talk to your wife, and self-reflect on what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah, is this maybe not the right path? Where is this gonna where is this gonna take us down the road?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Yeah. Uh we leaned heavily on attitude. Um what are some of the things that the Lord hates when you read Proverbs 6? Haughty eyes, haughty eyes. Uh I'm a big believer in the eyes give us away. Uh I I always was careful. I never punished my kids for doing kid things. Okay. Uh kids break things, kids jump on furniture, kids do some things that are stupid. But if you've got humility in your eyes, you've got regret in your eyes, you've got respect in your eyes, hey, I can work with that. That's that that, okay, you you were you were dumb, you you acted like a kid, okay, that's fine. We're gonna move on, we're gonna work on that behavior, but as long as I can see humility and submission in your eyes, hey, that's great. But when those eyes become rebellious, when there becomes a uh a cause for me to go, whoa, wait a minute, who's in charge here? If there's an ounce of rebellion, well, that's when the flag goes up. And that's when the cavalry is called in. And and and we're gonna have to have a meeting and we're gonna have to have discussion. Uh growing up, our kids only got a spanking for one of three things. Lying. Lying always got you a spanking. You never need to lie to me. Number one, I probably already know the truth. So there's no point in trying to hide it. And number two, even if you did something real bad, I'm gonna love you regardless, and we're gonna work together on it. Yeah, I may be disappointed, but you never need to lie to me. That's why God hates lying. Don't ever lie to your heavenly father. He loves you regardless, and he knows what you did before you ever confessed it. So lying always got you a spanking. Haughty eyes. You show rebellion. Okay, I'm gonna lower the boom. We're gonna have to have some serious, serious intervention because of haughtiness and then not holding my hand in a parking lot.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

It's for their safety. It's for your safety, you know, and and maybe because I was in the news business and covered so many tragedies with children. It's like, okay, you hold our hand in a parking lot. You're always gonna be right here with us. Uh, it was kind of funny. My my wife, you know, with two kids, so she always taught the first one who got out had to keep their hand on the minivan while she got the other one out. You know, that was just kind of the rule. And then once everybody's out, then we hold hands while I get in. And I still laugh. My kids are 26 and 28. They put their hand on the car until we're already going. You know, but but the point was these are these are the things that deserve clear, direct, immediate attention. And so getting back to your question, I'm watching their attitude. I'm watching how they respond to me. I'm watching how they respond to their mother. If if we've got humility and submission in play, then we're working with it. And so I can work with an attitude, I can work with challenges, uh, I can work with behavior. But if the rebellion comes in and there's that hard pushback, that's your clear sign.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Well, so I'm not pushing back, but my question is, is so let's say it's sports, the first analogy there. Um what would attitudes about sports, I'm assuming is if we're making that connection, um, what would be the warning signs uh that their attitudes about sports? Is it just is it questioning the well, it's just Wednesday night, dad? Like like like like the callousness of thinking about, well, we've missed Wednesday night before, what's the difference now? Which is also sets the precedence, which is hard for kids when you do that kind of thing. Um to make sure and understand like why what the dis kids are really great at shining a mirror on the decisions we make, you know, and then like and then and then trying and then finding the uh the inconsistencies of those things. But yeah, how do how what does that look like in their attitude towards those things?

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Well, the sports, okay, let's just go with sports. When I see that sports is becoming the main drive in their life, and that is all they want to do, and they begin to push back real hard on me when I say, Well, time out, time out, time out. We're not doing that tournament. You're gonna miss too much church. Or no, I know, I know, I know this is uh a practice, but we always go to church on Wednesday night. When when I see that rebellious attitude come into play, it may need to be, we need to pull back on that. I'll give you some examples because being a camp director, I I've had to deal with this all the time. I've had parents actually call me and say, hey, uh, we noticed that camp is set for this week. We got a soccer tournament that week. Can you move camp? Can you move camp so my kid can be there? And I'm like, wait a minute. Your kid can be there. That's not a that that's not a choice. That's not a choice. I mean, your kid can be there. You're wanting to choose both. And you need to help your child understand some choices are more important than others. And so in the case of sports, when I see their attitude and their focus, and that becomes the predominant focus of their life is that sporting activity or whatever else extracurricular is going on. That that's a pushback, that's a rebellious attitude time when I'm saying, wait, you knew getting into this that we have spiritual obligations first. And so, and and it may be, okay, we be maybe we need to reel this back. Maybe we're putting too much effort into this, and it's becoming a thorn in their spiritual garden.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

The way I try to think about it, and John, when you were sharing your story about your son and and and playing uh Fortnite and how he was standing up for other people or or telling people, pushing back on watch the language. I try to think in terms of I want my kids to be a thermostat, not a thermometer.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

And so what I mean is a thermostat adjusts to its uh it sets the temperature. A thermometer adjusts to whatever environment it's in. And I don't want my kids to be a thermometer. I don't want them, I want them to fit in and have friends and be well adjusted, but not if it means them changing their morals or their values to fit in. And so I would say if I start to see them becoming a thermometer, start to fit in, they're starting to talk like um, use the same colorful language as other people on the basketball court, or they're starting to blend in more uh with the same attitudes with them, then maybe that would be my sign that, well, I want them to be a thermostat. I want them to go and set the temperature of the room and have everyone, well, we know, okay, we clean up our language when when uh when when Kyle's around, uh, because he doesn't he doesn't go for that, or he, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

That's a great analogy. I like I like that uh a lot. Uh another way I would do it, if my kid's in sports and he's got a bad attitude on the field, he doesn't handle losses well, uh, he has bad sportsmanship, okay. We need to reel that in. That's a sign this is becoming a problem. This is turning into an obsession, and and it's becoming a stumbling block for you. And maybe we need to reel that in. So it's it's really reading the eyeballs to me, looking for the haughty eyes. To me, that is the very first thing you look for when you're headed down a bad path. Or that's you know, checking the temperature.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yeah, my daughter's done a little, little half, very subtle, but I've noticed a little roll of the eyes when she's responding.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Oh, that yeah. No, that no, no, no. We do not roll our eyes. You know, I'll I'll roll your eyes back in your head for you.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

Yeah, one of the things that makes you think about too is you can measure each of those values and those scenarios and the activities, you know, one by one. But then where it talks about the world of balance of those things is I I like maybe the idea of starting with a clean slate, starting with the end in mind of what are the spiritual things you want to do, and then fit things around it to see if you have any time. Like the the whole the the time scenario or the analogy of the the big bucket full of rocks, the rocks in the sand, the rocks in the sand, and where do pebbles? What do you start with, right? That fills up your time. But also I was thinking of Colossians 3, 2, and so set your minds on things that are above, not on things of the earth, and just the idea of thinking about are your are there conversations about success primarily worldly? Are you enabled to sit down at a dinner table and have a biblical conversation? Those kinds of temp checks is just that that balance of life from a 10,000-foot view of things, I think shows a little bit more perspective of then maybe now I should take a very detailed account of what we're doing and spending our time with, you know, in our lives. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Oh, yeah, I appreciate you bringing up dinner uh because that's where I wanted to go next. I'm a huge believer in every family sits down for a meal together a day. And it's not a quick meal. It's not just an in and out, not sitting here just watching in front of the TV. No, we're sitting down and we're isolated, and it's a time to talk. And it's a time for me as a parent to lead the conversation. And and and looking back on it, those were some of the most precious times we had with our kids. And and the conversation generally always focused around things that were spiritual or family related. You know, the idea of sports or some special interest may have a small play in it, but it wasn't the predominant thing. It it was that conversation about Bible class or or what's going on or some challenging uh scenario. I remember when they got older, my kids were doing a lot of studies with uh evidences and apologetics. And man, it would really drive a conversation at the dinner table when you're talking about CL C. S. Lewis or or something Josh McDowell had in an apologetics book, evidence that demands a verdict and things of those nature. And and you can you can read the room and read with your kids where they are by how they engage in those conversations. And if those are active, lively, participatory conversations, you you generally can take heart and you're probably headed down a good path here.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

I wish I was half uh as um eloquent as C.S. Lewis was. Oh man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Isn't it great? But but that was fun. My daughter and I sat down and read screw tape letters together. Uh, you know, actually I did it with both of my kids. And you talk about great conversation. Uh when you're looking at that one gets in your head.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Oh, it does get in your head in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

It does. You know, you're looking at Wormwood and screw tape and you know, and and and all those scenarios playing off uh in a in a dynamic uh you know world. And it's like, whoa, is that the way it really happens? But then you can also go, whoa, I can see how those things come into play in my life. You haven't read screw tape letters? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

We need to start a book club. When you start a Bible book club.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Yeah, or Narnia, read Narnia together and and and go through that. I mean, they're just great opportunities to read. Now, here's something else fine that y'all might want to think about doing with your kids. We called it March Madness. So every spring, every spring, a couple of the deacons and myself would teach the middle and high school class. And what we would do is we would study 64 characters in the Bible. And let's just say they were all the big name characters, your Abraham, your Moses's, your David's, your Paul's, whatever else. And you study them for the first half of the quarter. And then what we would do, March Madness, we would put them in a bracket and rank them one to 16 and put them in divisions. And then the rest of the Bible quarter was the playoffs. So Paul would take on Pilate. And so all the kids would have an opportunity to argue who's the stronger spiritual character. And then we put our heads down and we voted who's moving on. Well, that's Paul and Pilate. That's an easy one. You know, that's a one versus a 16 seed. So, you know, Paul's going to move on quickly. But when you get down to Tabitha and Titus, or you get down to Mephibosheth and Zibba, or you get down to Ananias and and and and other characters, you know, that, you know, well, the kids not only had to learn the characters, then, then they had to make arguments as to why that should move on. And you talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

That was a great Bible study.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Oh, it was a great Bible study, and it was great conversation at the dinner table. It would carry over because it would carry over into lunch uh after Sunday. Well, who what's show me the bracket? Who's moving on?

SPEAKER_00 48:31

And that's wonderful because that's what we're talking about is raising the bar higher than just getting them to church. And I think for Bible class, whether it's you're teaching a Bible class or you're a parent teaching your children all the time, we need to go more than just rote memorization. Now, memorizing the books of the Bible, the 12 tribes of Israel, like that's all important. And we need to drill those things, but that can't be all of what we're doing is rote memorization. We want them to critically think about.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Yeah. Well, it's teaching versus training. Uh there is an aspect in which we are teaching our children, but but teaching is like sitting in a class, blah, blah, blah, blah, wah, wah, wah. You listen to a teacher. Not bad, it has its place. Training requires a little more effort and participation and getting in the trenches and growing in it. And so we saw this as training as an opportunity because you had to defend it. So you have your D1 bracket, all your big one characters. We had a D2 bracket, which would be your second level characters. And then we even did a books of the Bible bracket. All right. Well, you got 66, so you had to play the have the play-in game, you know, with Obadiah and Nahum, do as a play and get in there. But you talk about great conversation because you not only had to learn what the book was about, but then you had to make the argument of why this book is more important than the other. Now, clearly, all the books are important.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

We definitely didn't admit to associate these things in a different conversation and a different way, which then gets them talking about it. And if they're talking about it, they're thinking about it, they're thinking about it, it takes up a little real estate in that little brain that they have, uh, a little bit more than it already did. And it has to push out something else.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

And you're leading the conversation, though. You're leading the conversation and you're driving and you're embedding in your heart of the kids, of your children, what's really important. And yeah, and to us, that bracket is much more important to learn than the literal March Madness bracket of which basketball team is going this way, the other. Well, and and if you go back to it with our our goals for our kids, yeah, in a setting like that, not only did you have to learn things, you hit multiple. Now I've got to present. Now I have to share. And I have to socially interact with others who have a differing opinion. One of the biggest arguments we had at our dinner table, it was so much fun, is we had the argument over Ziba and Mephibosheth. Now, if people aren't familiar with that story, uh, I'm actually going to preach on it Wednesday night. But you know, you have Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan, who's lame in both of his feet. Ziba was actually a servant of King Saul. And all of a sudden they're both coming together because David has brought them together. And then there is this friction of, okay, did Mephibosheth turn on King David or was it Ziba? How did it play out? I generally take the side that Mephibosheth is the good guy, Ziba is the bad guy. My daughter flipped on me and she thought Ziba was getting a bad rap. So we're having this massive argument and still laugh about it to this day that that Ziba, Ziba was given a bad rap. You talk about some lively, engaging dinner conversation that is carried over through this year, but my kids also were, they didn't realize it, but they were learning these smaller stories in the Bible that the Lord has placed in there to get into our hearts to help us to see his love, to see his grace, and to see that real people grapple and struggle with life just like we do.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

Yeah, and and points to you if you can get your kids to say the word mystify, let alone outside the car outside the building, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

What about my my favorite Bible name is Isaiah's son? Mahershal al Hashbaz. That's a great name. Well, I I love this metaphor, like the Apostle Paul. I love a good sports metaphor with the Bible, the the the um March Madness. March madness. I've got a fun Bible example that might be a good way to sort of summarize what we've talked about in this episode. And it would definitely be uh a Cinderella, a sweet 16, you know, a 16 seed that that no one really knows about, but might surprise you and do really well. And that's the Rekabites. Oh, the Rekabites. They refuse to drink alcohol because Jeremiah 35, God says, Well, why don't you offer some wine to the the Rekabites, the descendants of this fellow Rekeb? And they refused and said, No, our great-great, great, great, great grandfather Jonadab, said, We're not going to drink wine, we're not going to build houses, we're not going to plant vineyards.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Yeah, we're not hanging out in the city with all you city folk. We're staying outside our tents.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

And God, and God basically just said, Look, you guys are about to be punished. Jerusalem's about to be destroyed. And if you want to know why, it's look at them. That's what you should have been. They listened to their father. You guys don't listen to me. And I just love this example of whoever Jonadab was. The Bible, God never said don't drink wine in the Old Testament. He never said don't build houses. He never said don't plant vineyards. But this is what Jonadab thought would be best for his family. He set them on a path, and it made them probably seem like weirdos to some of them. And my point here is that when it comes to our kids, they might wonder, why am I the only one that doesn't have a smartphone? Why am I the only one that has to wear shorts of a certain length? My friends don't. Why am I the only one that that has to come home at a certain time? Uh, I've got an earlier curfew. Yeah. That's rich, Kyle.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

I I thanks for bringing that up because that fits into perfect, perfect uh uh analogy with what we're talking about here with Thorns. John Adab wanted to make sure these blessings did not become curses in the life of their kids.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Uh, but yeah, so I just love this story with the Rekabites, and it it makes me think that some of the things I do, my kids aren't gonna love, but I hope they'll appreciate down the road. And if it makes us seem strange to the rest of the world around us, as long as I think it's it's going to help put my kids on the right path, I'm okay with being just a little bit strange by the world standards.

SPEAKER_04 54:34

You mentioned something in one of your lessons about the um one of the most difficult things to do is to have different rules than than the other families at church when you hear the words. But they don't they get to or they're allowed to and that kind of thing. And I think it's really okay for parents to talk to each other. Maybe we can have open the dialogue there a little bit more for families to it's okay to to have disagreements, it's okay to be different and choose your rules in your own your own households. But is there an opportunity where you guys can maybe talk about it and maybe agree on some things? Then it makes those expectations, like you said already, we're already asking a lot of them. We're asking a lot of them to be Christians and to be in this world and not a part of it. Let's find ways to make it a little easier on them to do so.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Oh, and that would be great. That would be great. That would almost be kind of a perfect world if you could do that. And if you can do that, awesome. I would encourage anybody, do they that, any church to do that. But at the same time, here's something else we did with our kids. We wanted them to see that different wasn't just different from the world. Sometimes you're different even in your own spiritual community. And that's not always bad because we all have to make our own decision. I'll give you one example. We had a family in our church family uh that uh they didn't believe in celebrating Christmas. Well, we always had the teens over, always had the college kids over. Well, when we learned that and understood that that was a challenge for them, we actually would have all the teens and the college students over, which included the kids from that family, before we put up our Christmas tree and put up all of our decorations. So right after Thanksgiving, we got the first Friday, bam, we knocked it out there, had them over. We didn't want to be a stumbling block, and then all the Christmas stuff went up as soon as they were out the home. And and at first, you know, your kids and and even for Cheryl, it was like, ugh, right, right, right. But but that's what you do. I think that's a Romans 14 principle. You know, I I want people to show grace to me when I may be a little more conservative. So I show grace to them when they may, in my eyes, be a little more conservative. Because that's just as important a lesson for me to teach my kids and how they relate with their brethren as it is with how they relate to those outside the church.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Phillip, do you have any final thoughts? Well, first of all, I guess I would say thank you. Thanks for the opportunity to be here and to share some thoughts and to share our thoughts. I mean, Cheryl and I are certainly not perfect parents. We're like everybody else. We're we're finding our way. And it's it's kind of interesting. Just when you felt like you had good control of the toddler years, then your kids became tweens. And then when you felt like, oh, and I've got the tweens, boom, then they become teenagers. Then when they get them teenagers, then you know, then they're college students. You know, it's like each season of life has its challenges. And uh, if anything parenting has taught me, it's taught me, wow, my father in heaven must really love me. You know, and if if he has as as much passion as I have for my kids, for me, uh then oh wow, it it he must really love me. And boy, he must really be patient with me.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

Well, and and and that's the point is as we talked about as we kind of parent together, is having grace for yourself, that you're gonna make mistakes, having grace for others, you know, allow some room for growth and for uh giving yourself grace.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Uh I heard a great sermon years ago from uh Thakster Dickey, and he he acknowledged this is not exactly what this quote means in context, but in 1 Peter 4 and verse 8, it says that love will cover a multitude of sins. And this was in a sermon about being a father. And he said, I know that's not the context, but I like this thought that I am not going to be perfect. But if my children know that I love them and they will someday understand that everything I did was motivated by love, all the things I did wrong are going to move out of focus. And as long as that is what I am trying to emphasize, that that perhaps love will cover some of my failures or shortcomings as a father. Yeah. And I thought that was a comforting thought.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

Teach him to love God.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

And I would also encourage parents, don't grow weary in well-doing. Uh, if you are pulling your hair out and you're going crazy, great, you're doing it right.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Because that's how it was easy.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

And that's what it is. And and just surround yourself uh with a good community. Do what you can to surround yourself and especially your kids with a good community. Camp was that that's gonna happen. That's a non-negotiable. You're gonna go to camp. I want you in that community, I want you with those kids. Teen weekends, you're gonna go. I you're gonna be there, you know, Bible class, uh, those things, you're gonna go, you're gonna be a part of it. I want you in that community. And then as they got older, we made sure that they had mentors in their life who would repeat what we would want to repeat because there comes a point where our kids have hurt us. They're done. By the time they hit 13 or 14, dad's a Broken record. They know what dad's going to say. So we called it the Jedi. You need to be around so-and-so. Maybe you need to be around so-and-so. And and and they had people in their lives who would repeat our values, but they would be more open to them because it was a new voice. And and and that's where your Christian family is so important. And that they have that environment and they have more than just you to learn from.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Well, thank you so very much, Phil. And you might not have realized this, but it's not a complete episode of the Exhorter podcast until we've had a Star Wars reference.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

He looked at me just as you said Jedi and was like, he gets us.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

He's on the same wavelength here. But you've given us a lot to think about. And for you, our audience, we appreciate you listening to each episode. And if you know some parents pulling their hair out with trying to make the best decisions for their kids or sticking to the program, uh, if this episode will be a help, I think a lot of the things Phyllis said are going to be such a good help. It's been an encouragement to me. Some of the ideas we have that I think are good ideas, it's easy to just lose heart in sticking with it. And I needed some encouragement to keep with it. And so I appreciate that. So share this episode if you know someone that's pulling the hair out over their kids and need needs a little boost or a uh a shot in the arm. Keep going, keep at it, and thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

Yeah, and check out the Clovis Church of Christ website and YouTube channel to listen to the rest of the gospel mean series by Phil. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

We got a eight uh uh SD card in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:44

Yes, we're recording. Just to double check me at all time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

It's happened twice, and I've never let him forget where we got halfway through an episode and he realized it wasn't recording, and then I have to try and recreate. The only thing I forgot today was the mic. I thrive on spontaneity and I can't recreate something I've already done. Alright, we're live, we're we're recording. Okay, okay. Well, we're not live, so you know we can we can snip some things out if we have to.