84 - Seeing Jesus First: Beyond Extremes with guest Kris Emerson

In this episode, we sit down with Kris Emerson to discuss how Christians can stay focused on Christ over extremes of Christian leanings. We explore why chasing spiritual “rightness” outside of Jesus can lead to fear, division, and extremes — whether on the left, the right, traditional, or progressive. If you've wrestled with church culture, legalism, credibility, or fear-based decision-making, we hope this conversation will encourage you to see Jesus first.

Contact the Exhorter Podcast

• Email us at media@clovischurchofchrist.org
• Find us on Facebook or Instagram

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

Nate 0:04

Welcome to the Exorder Podcast, where we aim to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical discussion. We have a very special guest today, Chris Emerson from the Lindale Church in Texas. Chris, we're glad to have you with us, man. Yeah, this is good. Thanks for inviting me on.

Kyle 0:21

He's also from the Excel Still More podcast, and I've said this before, but it hits a little different with him sitting across the table. If you only have time for one podcast, you should probably listen to his. But if you have time for a second, we're glad you've tuned in.

Jon 0:34

Yeah, that's what he has said that before. I just wanted to take a kind of an after-show conversation about your sermon this morning, uh, which I thought was really great. Uh, we've been talking about putting Christ first in all aspects, but also looking at the Old Testament, looking at the New Testament, and we don't normally see Christ. Um, make sure that we're focusing in on him and that he is the hero. It's not us. So tune into those lessons. Hopefully, you'll tune into one this afternoon. And you are you're talking out of Colossians one. Can you give us a three-minute synopsis of kind of what the focus of that lesson was?

Kyle 1:10

Well, we've been talking about putting Christ first all week. It to me, it felt today like the lesson was about uh seeing Christ first um ahead of tribe, ahead of what group you might identify.

Kris 1:23

Yeah. Well, so we did Colossians one and two today, and the Colossians one was just so front-ended with the hope that we have in Jesus, and it has this beautiful list of all the things that he is rescuer and sustainer and provider, and we just need more of that. In chapter one, if I'm filled with hope and security in Christ, and I get up every morning and I just open scripture and I just want to find something that leads me to thank him that I'm gonna have my best day ever. I have to. It's driven by the right things, it's motivated by the right person. Uh, but if I get that all reversed and I'm chasing it, I get up and I go, I don't even know if I'm saved today. I'm such a mess. Maybe by noon I'll do, I'll straighten it out and God will wink at me or something. Like if you're chasing grace, you're never gonna catch it. You're chasing hope, you're never gonna get it. And so the first lesson was just about the way Paul and front end so many of these letters with get secure in Christ. And then we got into chapter two. He keeps talking about that, all that's true in him and the beautiful things we have in him, and uh the mystery is Christ himself and he's the treasure. But verse four said of chapter two, I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument. You have to see the authentic Jesus. If you're following a uh a fake or a distorted Jesus, then all of a sudden you go from universe creating power to no power at all. And so we made four observations from chapter two about what distortions look like. On the left, which we set up, and y'all can talk about that if you want, is what I think or what I feel. Like what I think or what smart men think or what writers think, like man's wisdom has ever even touched the hem of the Lord's garment, or what I think God is doing, or how I feel spiritually. Well, that's all your brain, and your brain is teeny, teeny tiny. It's really, really small compared to the great God of heaven. So be sure in scripture that you're following Jesus and not your facsimile idea. And then we went to the other side, which y'all can talk about on the right side. There's sectarianism, like Judaism and Gnosticism and exclusive church country club behavior, where we as a group of people who share a sign out front or whatever, we make all these conclusive decisions on what's right. And then before you know it, that becomes Jesus teaching. But it's not, it's your teaching, which may be according to Jesus, but we got to go in and check and balance that because we uh the tribal, you know, a tribal speculation becomes a tribal conclusion, which becomes gospel. And those are not very, you know, you got there are some things we teach that are gospel, but you got to be sure. And so we looked at that at the end about, for instance, extreme conservatism. If you miss Jesus through conservative, you still miss Jesus. I mean, saying no to everything, that's not Jesus. It doesn't get you any closer to him, and it may end up keeping you from doing the things that he wants you to do out of fear. So far left, far right, same thing. Extreme behavior, you get a little meaner the further that you go because you get a little farther away from Jesus.

Kyle 4:14

Yeah, I often think of it in terms of a way of doing something has has a tendency to become, in people's eyes, the only way to do it. Uh so you see a lot of church practices, whether it's uh, you know, churches will get flack if they decide to go down to one worship service or not have a P.M. worship service. Well, there's nothing wrong with one or two worship services on a Sunday, but uh it's sort of become the standard way of doing it. And uh you pass around a collection plate. Well, what if you do a money box? Well, that's not how we're supposed to do it. Well, a plate is a acceptable way to do it, so is a money box. But oftentimes, just those simple illustrations, a way of doing something can become like the only acceptable way in people's eyes. And I think that's a that's a problem that you tend to see.

Jon 5:04

Yeah, it hit me a like a ton of bricks because when you got to that final side over there, extreme conservatism, that's kind of how I it's kind of how my conscience has been.

Kyle 5:15

He's our token conservative on this podcast.

Jon 5:18

It's been built over time. And so even though like I I feel like marriage has really helped me um balance you, especially since Taylor um didn't grow up in the church. So that was kind of a real good balance. Um having parents that uh were also fighting a more extreme version of conservatism in their lives kind of helped me, but even then they still had a strong one comparatively. Um but my conscience is so tightly wound and built with things. A lot of times I feel like I'm easing up in speak, but not uh peaceful inside. And so that's kind of that it was kind of like a difficult thing to uh to hear, but it was kind of like very helpful because we talk about on this podcast a lot about the pendulum. We talk about this being a big scale, and a lot of times it's yeah, how how well you're swinging, how far you're swinging. And and I love when you were talking about just those extremes. And we see we see that on political sides all the time. It's very easy to see those things, but in the church, I don't think we want to talk about those all the time because maybe a fallacy in our thinking is the further away we are from the other side, the closer we are to God. And that's not always the case, you know, and and that's been a struggle, personal struggle, I mean, a good portion of my life, especially into adulthood after my in my 20s and stuff, just trying to understand what's my parents versus what's mine, and now raising kids and trying to identify what is going to be theirs, you know, how far from my mark are they gonna be? So I don't know, I I really heard that lesson, and and I I I just kind of wanted to pick that apart a little bit, but because I I find that not just in spirit and through a lesson, but I'm feeling it in my own life.

Kris 6:57

Well, a couple things come to mind. First of all, you God gave you a conscience and you need to honor that conscience. And if you're conservative by conviction, then I would not want to push you out of that for your sake.

Jon 7:07

Yeah.

Kris 7:07

But you have to determine the difference between your conclusions, convictions, and conscience and what is clearly taught in scripture that all must follow.

Jon 7:15

Right.

Kris 7:15

We use the terminology a little bit with a couple elders in Lindale. Conservatism is inclusive. It's actually a beautifully inclusive way to approach scripture. Like, for instance, everybody can sing, not everybody could use the instrument, everybody can do the Lord's Supper every week, not everybody could skip a week, not uh everybody can use a treasury for saints, not everybody like I mean, those are big issues, but the point is conservatism is is inclusive as long as you don't judge and label everybody who's different than you. And that's where you have to have that healthy tension of I can hold my conservative conviction, but I can respect if yours is different on things that I readily admit I might be shaped by my past and I might be piecing this together uh incorrectly.

Jon 8:02

And honestly, I've had more peace in my marriage in the last three years from that practice of that. Yeah. So I mean, I I yeah, as you're you're talking about it, I feel like yes, I agree that that's the that's the learn there for in the practice for me. It's been trying to have my feelings and my views and not not wanting to like I mean, like I said, my grandfather preached for like 60 years, and I I I like the idea of a strong conservative nature and and point of view and perspective still living. I don't want it to be go away. I think there's virtue and value in the way that he preached and the way that other people have preached, and I I fear that you know, if it if if it's not to me, you know, uh who is going to keep that going and who's gonna see the value and the the virtue of that, and yet I don't want to act on it the same way, maybe that he did. And so it's kind of this balance of like, okay, well, that's the that's the uh that's the perspective, but uh what's the application? How are we gonna actually talk to people about it and judge or not?

Kris 9:04

And it's not your job to hold all those things in place. Like if Jesus wants to hold them in place again, if the word does I want to say something about your extremes. I think you made a good point there. We tend to go the opposite extreme, which again is very similar behaviors I talked about this morning. But take Calvinism, for instance. Okay, five-point Calvinism, all five points are, in my view, not biblical. They're just wrong. They're they're wrong from jump street, and so they finish in a wrong place. But if you take everything you know about Calvinism and you completely invert it and say the opposite of it, you will also be wrong. If you take away, I mean, there's no sovereignty of God, or the Holy Spirit is doing nothing, or uh like the opposite, it's wrong, but it's polar opposite, as if there's nothing redeemable in it, is also wrong. And and so here comes somebody who goes, Hey, let's preach about grace. We're not Calvinists, but let's preach about grace a little bit and maybe the way God is working. And so then we create labels. Like, well, you're a neo-Calvinist in you're a they can only speak in terms of the opposite view. I don't want to speak in terms of either view. I want to speak in terms of what I'm reading in the scripture. And that was the point we're making today. Like, just let's focus on Jesus in the middle and let's see where we get. Yeah. But when you speak in terms of opposites, you just you're just always gonna miss it.

Kyle 10:14

Or out of fear that fear and fear that it'll sound like if we start talking about, like, say, clapping at a baptism or emotion in worship, that starts to sound a little too Pentecostal or something like that. I'm our resident.

Jon 10:28

Don't clap, please. Yeah, and yet only because it it it's like uh kind of like hives on the back of the neck there. It just makes me uncomfortable, but not because I think it's not coming from a genuine place that it should come from. I I I I do believe it's not performative, but growing up though, I I also heard it's like, well, we're not celebrating that person, it the glory is to God, so don't clap for that person. And then that that also feels like yeah, uh, well, yeah, that person is walking with God now. Like, why why wouldn't it be both? You know, and so I understand in the spirit of it, but when you brought up that too, I was like, Oh, great, that's me.

Kris 11:07

It's actually kind of weird to think about somebody coming off the street, finding the truth, obeying the gospel, coming out of the water, and everybody's just staring at them. Now we sing, we sing. Of course, this gets into something that we probably don't have time for, but there's just a difference between collective behavior and influence and individual, you know. Maybe you watch a TV show, I don't feel comfortable watching. Well, that's something you do on your own, and I'll pray for you, and we'll, you know, when we come over, we won't watch it. But we, you know, when you're talking about church and worship and collective behavior and church buildings, and I I get why we're so I get why we view it differently.

Kyle 11:39

I've tried to be more patient to that, that you know but even on the individual matters, sometimes it boils down to, well, I don't think you should be doing it, and I don't like that you are. Uh, and and that's where you get I I think missing Jesus on the right, some of the applications I came to would be like, like say alcohol. All right. I would like to preach it as in don't ever drink it, and it's it's a sin if you do. That's how I'd like to preach it, but I just I know that's not what's in the Bible. There are warnings about it. There's warnings about drunkenness, there's things like that. Um, and so like when we tell our kids that kind of message, it feels like we are not we're we're we're like the Pharisees almost making a boundary around the boundaries to suit our you know comfort level. Uh and then our kids read the Bible as they get older and see Jesus turn water to not grape juice, it says wine, and they get questions. We say dancing is a sin. And then they read about David leaping and dancing before the Lord, and that raises questions. Well, that's not what I was told.

Kris 12:43

Yeah.

Kyle 12:44

And I feel like sometimes we sort of cheat because we want to we want an answer that that's more comfortable for us or that suits our um you know our conscience, but we we really sidestep what the Bible actually teaches on it.

Nate 12:58

I think that really hurts our credibility. I know as a young man, uh I left the church and and lived in the world. And when I decided to come back, uh I remember studying the scriptures, and I thought to myself, I want to know what these really say. I don't want to know what somebody else is teaching me that they say. I want to know what they actually say for myself. And I learned so many things that are not in there that I was taught. Things like dancing, uh, you know, dancing is wrong, alcohol is wrong. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention, you know, musical instruments and worship. And I'm thinking to myself, uh, all of those things are in scripture. Like, and so it just totally damaged the credibility of the people who taught me. Um and it changed my view of, you know, of the church, but also of uh uh of the scriptures.

Jon 13:50

And we've talked a lot about this kind of thing. We had an episode where we talked about that sounds like denominational speak there. Uh-huh. So if it sounds like it, it must be. So stay away from it. Um, so we we talked about taking every scenario by itself rather than lump it all together, but then just using the wisdom of scriptures because I can address most of the things you guys just talked about with the idea of teaching our kids to love God and then teaching them how God feels about those things and the warnings God gives about those things. And then if they have that personal relationship with him and they know he loves him and they love them, they're gonna probably not do those things anyways, out of sheer wisdom, not because we created a line around something that was false. And so Yeah.

Kris 14:31

I mentioned today, I forgot I used the hyperbole hyperbole number, but it was like if I teach my son there's 50 non-negotiables to be a Christian, and he grows up and reads a scripture through, and he's like, you know, I see about half of those clear as day, and the others seem like just kind of the way you pieced it together. It's a little bit of the Santa Claus problem, you know. You lied to me about that. What else have you lied to me about? Kind of thing. And so I sit down with my kids and I go, okay, look, here's here are clearly taught scriptures that are unmistakable. You want to be a Christian. Uh, we'll talk about it, I think, tonight, but there's like three big sins in the New Testament um immorality, idolatry, and treating people bad. Like that's those are there are other things you're not supposed to do, but they're dominantly clear things that are repeated so many times. And I want them to know the difference between that and okay, this other thing um is just kind of where we want to be to be careful, you know. But you know, not everybody sees it that way. And I want you to know that not every baptized believer sees it that way. And uh that's scary. That's scary when you're uh you're realizing what that might mean. It might mean they may be like, well, I don't think there's a problem with that. And and I will have opened the door, but I I gotta be, I'm back to the sermon. I can't just go no, no, no, all the time to keep them being what I want them to be. I just want them to follow the Lord. So I I can't preach lessons he that the Lord didn't preach. So that's hard. It's a parenting thing. I have older kids and younger kids, so I'm going through this a second time. Uh, but I didn't regret that.

Define By The Work, Not The Nots

Jon 15:51

Well, and that's kind of how I I've been thinking about it with my son, older son, but just 13. And as I kind of like teach him and I try to wrestle with my own conscience and not wanting to implant it everything that you know I see in the way I see it necessarily on him, but allow him to see it from the scriptures. I like the idea, and it makes me feel like I'm honoring both sides of this element by saying it maybe communicating to him why I feel the way I feel versus giving him blanket nose and things like that. You know, if I have a more conservative approach and feel about things, and I've I derive a lot of comfort sometimes from staying as far away from this something as I can, it makes me know that I'm good. But I I understand that that's not necessarily to be imprinted on anyone and everyone all the time. So I even though I feel that way, I do think it's a real good practice and just having that open dialogue with with him and teaching him. This is why I feel the way I feel, and I ask these questions all the time, too.

People-Focused Soundness And Activity

Kyle 16:58

I think that that gets right to the heart of the lesson this this morning, too, is like Matthew chapter 12. This idea of conservative is I will I will play it safe. I will what is the safe bet? Sure. And so, like Matthew 12, verse 1, you know, he went through the grain fields on the Sabbath because his disciples were hungry, and then he gets criticized for it. And you think, well, what would be the conservative approach to that? Not what Jesus did. See, it's probably best to play it safe and not pick the grains. Um things, things like that that that come up in scripture.

Kris 17:30

Um inactivity may be against the gospel, you know. Inactivity feels safe.

Jon 17:35

Feels safe.

Kris 17:36

It feels safe, and sometimes it's the right thing to do. You're right, man. I feel like people showed up at Jesus' doorstep on Friday nights and were like, would you heal my broken arm? And he was like, I'll see you tomorrow morning at the temple. Like he wanted to push the need to emphasize the more important things. Like he wanted it to be on Sabbath. He wanted as many Pharisees there as possible. He was not afraid to shake up their because he knew. He knew in the first century church it was gonna be a problem. He already knew there was gonna be a problem.

Generational Context And Charity

Kyle 18:04

That's an issue I faced as a preacher that I have to try and fight against um how I'm perceived. That's that's somewhat important to me. And you know, to be thought of as a liberal is just something I just I don't like that.

Jon 18:18

So when I was younger to California then, buddy. Yeah.

Kyle 18:22

Well, when I was younger, I I derived a lot of um value in in how I was perceived by others, and and a lot of my self-worth came from being perceived by the people I looked up to and respected as I'm I'm holding the line for them, yeah, and and I'm conservative. And I I don't want to be the one that that let it slip on my watch. And uh I found that I don't want to just assume that everything they defined as right and wrong or that I was taught was wrong. I don't want to just assume that and and then just swing too far the other way. But I realized I'm holding a line that I haven't drawn myself and being defined by others.

Gratitude, Weekend Recap, And Unity

California Mission Field And Encouragement

Jon 19:00

You know what's helpful to me? And like I said, I a lot of my last few years has been losing both parents. And but in this conversation, what what helped me is before they were gone is to ask you know my mom, did you agree on everything together? If we weren't allowed to wear jeans ever at church or something, so did is that something you both was convicted to do? And it was really helpful to hear from her say, your dad didn't care, but I did, and he uh you know dwelt in understanding, right? And he, you know, a lot went we decided to get to do that together then, and that's where we drew the line. So it was really helpful to me to have those moments and those opportunities to kind of understand where I didn't really have any context to it because I just knew there were lines, this was the case, but I just assumed everyone had the same convictions and aligned, and yet with them, it was helpful to understand that even though they they weren't as on on certain topics as convicted as each other was, they decided they would agree together on certain things. And so I feel like that's kind of how we do in the church, too, is that's what long suffering is about. That's you give everyone enough time to sit there and come to the same conclusions, or or we wait until Jesus comes, but like there's no reason to walk away from the conversation, that's no reason to treat each other harmful, that's no way to deal with disagreement.

Kris 20:19

So we need to normalize statements like this is my conviction based on scripture, but I cannot, I'm not sure. That's the turb I wanted to say. I'm not sure what is demanded of scripture, like your drinking thing. You might say, I'm I'm a teetotaler, I don't drink, but I'm not sure if that's a mandate that's required in scripture. I don't let my kids go to the dances, but I'm not I can't I from a biblical perspective, I can't tell you for sure that yeah, we we need to normalize that kind of I think humility is the right word. Uh, I'm not sure, you know, we don't have dinner, we don't have spaghetti at our church building. But do I have to be sure that everybody who does is like living in sin?

Jon 20:59

I I I'm work, you know, I'm gonna keep studying it, but you everybody feels like you have to pick a camp for everything and your blood pressure probably drops a lot when you decide to focus on things like that.

Closing Thanks And Subscribe CTA

Nate 21:11

Like the churches that I've been in throughout my life, they tend to lean one way or the other, like regardless of the congregation. Some lean lean harder one way or it's more obvious. But as a preacher, how do you influence a congregation to get back to Jesus?

Kris 21:31

That's you know, there is a lot of that. You're in this category, you're in that category. We've created sort of sect-like even in churches of Christ categories. You're a one cup here, you're this, you're that, and created some uh some really rigid lines. You gotta pick which one you're gonna be in. But when you zoom in, that's that's not the way it is. Like it it at Lindell with all the people there, there are those who've come through a lot and they're older and they're really firm on some things, and their own kids. I can tell most of those firmest, most scared, most non-bending, it's always gotta be, did not produce children. And I don't mean children ran off in the world. I mean those children are in the church, they're elders now, they're deacons now, they're servants who did not they overcooked the goose and now, you know, that every church has got that. Of course, we've welcome talk about institutionalism for a minute. Most of our congregations have a pretty heavy influx of people from institutionalism over the last 20 years because people they just want to study their Bible again and they come. And we kind of we know we have that that diversity there. And and you can't just get up and and and preach one group's points. As a preacher, that's always been tough. I just think the best thing a church can do has nothing to do with the preacher. The best thing a church can do, in my opinion, is develop an on-ramp and off-ramp for elders where it becomes more normal to add and subtract every few years. If you're getting older, I mean you have an off-ramp, and if you're to where you create an eldership that is diverse enough that it represents the spectrum of your church. Most churches that really struggle with what our identity is, you have three much older guys in the eldership who are really generationally out of touch with two-thirds of their church, of the the church that they're shepherding. And and the preachers gotta go, and they come in and go, We need you to preach this right here. And you're going, you know, the first of all it's not even good for us right now. And I think that churches that prioritize age range and diverse diversity for lack of a better term, in their eldership are gonna do better because you know, our elders, we have nine. We have three. I'm overstating this. Three on the left, three on the right, three on the middle. Just I'm not categorizing that with any specifics, but in general. And so an issue comes up and they get in there and they they wrestle with it, but they wrestle in a way that represents what's actually the feel of the whole church. And they come out usually with a nice conservative decision that doesn't go thump everybody else on the nose, which is great. And then I get to preach that. It's hard on preachers, and we lose it, we lose a lot of preachers. And I think that uh they're put in this really sticky spot where maybe older, smaller leader number of leadership is really demanding a thing that you're looking at. The church going, our church has got a lot of varied views on this.

Kyle 24:15

And that is a challenge. Like John, you you talked about like how difficult it is being in your 20s and trying to have your mind made. Now imagine you're the one that's up front preaching every Sunday as a young 20-something, and you feel that added pressure to it. And that it's Were you as arrogant as I was, isn't it? You you I I am just as extremely humble today as I was back then. Exactly. Um, you know, and you won't you just want to call balls and strikes and call it like it is and and preach it from the Bible, but then also it's like that's where it gets difficult because as a preacher, you add to that the the element of well, it's also my livelihood. And if I step outside the norm or if I go outside uh or or preach it like I see it, but that's not the sanitized view, yeah. Then then now it starts affecting my my livelihood. Yeah, and that that's where it's like, okay, I don't want to be pressured to compromise what I un how I understand the scriptures, but I also don't want to get fired or blacklisted or whatever, and that's that's something you gotta fight against. I I find that this idea of your question, Nate, I think a good emphasis on on the work. What should we be doing as a church? And I don't mean this as a distraction from quote unquote doctrinal issues or divisive issues, but I mean like let's focus on what we should be focusing on. You talked about inactivity, Chris, and and that's something I've I've said a few times before that it's always bothered me a little bit how we define ourselves by what we're not non-institutional, non-cooperative, non-instrumental, anties, uh anties or or uh Protestant, you know, in the bigger Christian spectrum is is it's defining what we're against and what we're not. And well, what are we? What are we supposed to be doing? And I think an emphasis on the work and just focusing on the work and not to the neglect of talking about these but you know, hot button topics or whatever, but I just feel like the the right emphasis on if we're working, then we're gonna be too busy to really get weighed down.

Kris 26:16

Totally right. Well, the work is always the people. The work is the people. It's it's young people that are getting into marriage and about to be in over their head, it's people on the street that are that are crying on the corner because the life's falling apart. Like if we were soul searching and seeking, I do a lot of preaching at home about trying to trying to almost in some ways revisit the idea of soundness. Like a sound local church is an evangelistic church, they're focused on souls and people. You want to be a sound church, then do that. Yeah, the other stuff matters too, but a lot of that is is a previous decision. So you'll you'll do better. I nobody can see me because you're not doing video, but when you have idle hands, I sometimes I preach about idle hands and I make about a one-minute point. And while I'm making that point, I'm just slowly balling up my hands, idle, lazy, not active, and then I get into like a fighting pose. Like idle hands turn into fists, and like we don't have anything better to do, but fight over those convictions. There are so many Christ-centered things to do, and they almost all relate to people, which you're gonna talk about tonight, actually.

Kyle 27:18

When I talked about holding the line for, you know, as defined by previous generations, I try not to say that in a negative sense. I try to more be curious and understand why they draw the lines where they drew them and try to imagine what was the world like then. And I think 80 years ago, pretty much everyone in America went to church, and it was just a question of are you going to the right church or the wrong church? And I think that's where a lot, that's just my personal conclusion, where a lot of teaching that I heard growing up came from was from that place of, and you talked about, well, the opposite of Calvinism isn't necessarily the right, but I I think why were they arguing about the opposite? Well, it's because everyone believed in God, more or less. Uh, so it's just a question of, well, let's let's defend why our church is better than their church or why our doctrine is right and theirs might be wrong. And I think that line of reasoning might have been, you know, appropriate at the time, but in our in our world today, most people don't go to church, I don't think. And so it's it's not about trying to convince people why our church is better than others. It's why should you believe in God? Why should you believe that Jesus is your savior? And it's it's more fundamental things that that I think are essential to talk to people about, to major in those and minor in the other things. Like, let's just get people to believe in Jesus first. Uh, and and then maybe let's just worry a little bit less about what they're doing over there.

Kris 28:43

I will add real fast because that's something I've learned. I've learned a lot, but I was pretty negative for a while about what I perceived happened in the 70s and 80s and 90s, and there were some negative things that happened. You know, nobody's I don't know if I'm gonna say it tonight or not, but like nobody's ever treated me better than Christians, nobody's ever treated me worse. Like we get pretty passionate about things. But I miss the fact that those guys were going through a lot in their time. They were dealing with things in their time that are different than what I'm dealing with. Great example is the generation before them that supported black people and white people not being in the same church. Like they supported, they wanted segregation. Now we look at that now, and I can't think of anything more asinine than that. Like that's the silliest, craziest, most wildly to me, I want to say like non-biblical thing ever. But they were dealing, and I'm not defending. I'm just saying it's not really, I've learned a little bit about that. It's not my right to just come in and attack a whole generation of people who were at a different time dealing with different things. And I've kind of just tried to stay in my lane a little bit, which is right what you're doing. Like right here, right now, we're in Central California. I think we're in Central California.

Jon 29:44

Yeah, you are.

Kris 29:45

And a lot of people here who are living very hurt lives don't know Jesus. And a lot of people in this church who are struggling just aren't as close to Jesus as they should be. He's the source. So I think that's what I'm gonna put my emphasis on. Maybe Jesus will see how it goes.

Kyle 30:00

Yeah, I try to understand, but I also feel like let me let me work through some of these questions. Don't just tell me the answer and expect me to accept it without giving me the ability to search and think through and critique uh different viewpoints and arrive at a conclusion on my own. That's that's something I don't like either.

Jon 30:19

And well, thanks, Chris, for coming out here. Um, I you you kind of filled a cup I didn't know I need filled uh with some of the sermons today, and then I gotta say this real quick.

Nate 30:29

I was in the back at the end of your lesson today, and I was like, I was holding my one and a half year old, and I'm like welling up with tears. I'm like, dude, you hit the nail on the head. It was fantastic. Thank you.

Jon 30:40

Yeah, no, and it's been a really profitable weekend. I really appreciate it. I know the kids uh really enjoyed all the Bible studies in the last well, it's been three days. Really appreciate that, and I really appreciate the uh a new perspective on looking at uh the Old Testament, looking at some of the heroes in there, seeing Jesus first in them.

Kyle 30:58

The last third of your Bible will make a whole lot more sense when you can when you're able to connect it to the first two thirds.

Jon 31:03

Doesn't it? I mean, and especially Friday night, and you're talking to those kids and just holding up the Bible and talking about how it's it's one story. That was really helpful. Brought it all together really well and really appreciate it. Thank you for uh sharing yourself and your daughter with us, and we got to meet her and hang out. Um all the kids seem to hit it off really well. So I really appreciate it, and spending some time with us talking uh on the podcast here.

Kris 31:26

Yeah, it was great. Thanks for having me on. You know, in Texas we think we're everything, and people are like California. I'm like, listen, some terrific servants of Jesus in California and church is getting after it and just coming here and seeing that again. West Coast, really, the whole thing. There's I mean, it's a mission field in many ways that's different than us, but our main mission field is our kids, and you guys are trying to work it just like I am. Anyway, I'm super heartened encouraged. I knew I would be. I didn't come in thinking otherwise. I just gotta go back and convince a few more Texans and chill down.

Jon 31:58

Chill out, guys. Yeah, but like I said, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening to the Exorder Podcast. Uh, we appreciate you listening and tuning in all the times. Nate, what do they need to do?

Nate 32:09

Like, subscribe, the the Exhorter Podcast. You can do that with the Excel Stone War podcast too if you want to. But you know, like subscribe and share.

Jon 32:18

Appreciate you tuning in. Thank you.

Kyle 32:21

I think Chris might see a bump in his uh uh subscription. So he might get he might get one more subscription over the next 30 days because of us. I think it'll be the other way around. I really appreciate when you said I'm holding my one and a half year old that you weren't like my 78 week old. Thank you. When did you stop that?

Jon 32:41

Because that I stopped that really quick after after really 11 weeks. After four weeks. My 60 week old.

Kyle 32:46

Four weeks, then you're gonna see like an 11.

Jon 32:48

I'd just say almost a month.