92 - Is 'I Love Them, But I Don't Have to Like Them' Biblical?

Can you love someone you don't naturally like?

We've all heard the phrase, "I love them, but I don't have to like them." But is that really the attitude Scripture calls us to have?

In this episode, we explore the tension that can exist between faithful Christians who simply don't connect, have different personalities, or have allowed misunderstandings and assumptions to create distance. Looking at Philippians 4, Colossians 3, and 1 Corinthians 13, we discuss what biblical love actually requires—and why avoiding people may be easier than pursuing unity, but rarely reflects the heart of Christ. 

We also offer practical steps for repairing strained relationships: praying intentionally for one another, speaking well of others, and having humble conversations that seek understanding instead of assumptions.

The church isn't a curated friend group—it's a redeemed family. And how we treat one another says a lot about how seriously we take the gospel. 

Contact the Exhorter Podcast

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

The Question Behind Church Tension

Nate 0:04

Welcome to the Exhorter Podcast, where we aim to stir up love and good works with bite-sized biblical discussion. John, I believe you have our topic for today. Would you enlighten us?

Jon 0:19

I will do my best.

Nate 0:21

Okay, please do your best.

Jon 0:22

We'll see.

Nate 0:22

Please do.

Jon 0:23

Um what I wanted to talk about here, and I think a lot of the times my mind gravitates to um relationships. With with episodes I bring up, I think a lot of times it's building relationships and how we work together as Christians. And so these kinds of topics are always on my mind. And I was thinking of that phrase, um uh love them. I have to love them, but I don't have to like them. And I was just thinking, well, let's be honest, there are some Christians we naturally connect with, and there are some Christians that we don't, um, brethren. Um, we worship together, we serve together, but maybe we don't click. And the thought can come up is is that okay? Are we failing spiritually if we're not close with everyone? Um, or does Christian love require something deeper than friendship? And so I thought we would just talk about that space uh together and kind of like throw out a question here to you guys. So um, with this idea, the idea is can you love someone you don't naturally like? But the question I want to ask you two guys is have you ever felt that tension with another faithful Christian?

Nate 1:26

Nope. I get along with everybody, and I've never uh felt that I had anything to dislike about anybody at church.

Kyle 1:34

I kind of believe that in some cases, but yeah. Well, when I was training to preach, I had someone tell me uh very matter-of-factly, Kyle, no matter what you do, there are gonna be people that leave the church because of you. Now, what was meant by that was do your best, and like Paul said, so far as depends on you, be at peace with all men.

Nate 1:57

Yeah.

Kyle 1:57

But ultimately, despite your best efforts, there are gonna be some people that just you're the excuse that that they're gonna they're gonna use, but it's probably not you. It's not you, it's them.

Nate 2:09

Yeah.

Kyle 2:10

But it was it was in the context of a conversation to a young preacher at the time, you know, as when I was young at the time, was um have thick skin. Just saying, understand that that people are gonna leave the church and they're gonna say you're the reason, and that's just gonna happen. So yeah, I've I've had some I've had some um experiences like that where uh and not just people leaving, but obviously you you can make a statement about doctrine or interpreting a part of the Bible, and there's gonna be someone that probably sees it differently than you. And yeah.

Jon 2:45

Well, it's interesting you bring that up because that may or may not be what we're even talking about because we have you know w we have another conversation that's been brewing and that we can kind of continue on, but we've talked about other too, is what happens when we disagree on doctrine, right? And I think that that's a real good conversation to get into. But maybe even before that, this is this is more probably vain or surface level of not personality-wise not getting not you know, meshing with certain people. Yeah, like maybe they rubbed in that their Super Bowl team, you know, wiped the floor with yours, and there's now a grudge. And that's I can't lie to you.

Kyle 3:20

I can one think think of one person that literally like hates everything that I love, like my favorite music, my favorite movies, my favorite, you know, whatever. Like this person literally. Let me guess. Let me guess.

Jon 3:30

Let me guess.

Nate 3:31

Let me guess. One of us is married to that person.

Jon 3:34

My wife doesn't listen, so you're she hears from the case. I can't stand Ashley. Don't worry, my wife doesn't listen either. Yeah, that that is really funny, and it's funny because it's actually true. Um, when if you're talking about preferences on things, uh, my wife Taylor, her, she aligns just opposed to Kyle is about there's really only one thing that we mutually you know love.

Kyle 3:59

And how amazing I am Jesus. And you know, one of us, one of us loves that person more than the other. There you go. There you go. Um, yeah, you know, obviously me. I love it.

Jon 4:07

One day she'll love me as much as that's the thing you guys have in common. Does it make sense? Uh-huh. No, I so I when I think about this, I this happens, I feel like it happens to everyone. And it happened, like I said, I think Kyle, you're a preacher. So when it happens to you, if it happens to you, I feel like it happens more about your role and your what you're saying and stuff, man. You know, because because both of you guys are very likable people in general. Thank you. Um, yeah, thank you. You are and so I just have to say, you're right. Yeah. There you go. Humble too. Humble too. Um immensely humble. Um, but if we were in a competition, I'm a little bit more humble than Kyle. There you go. Just look. So that's kind of what we're talking about, though. I so maybe you guys can't relate to this, but I feel like you're married and you have family members and you you you're around. So you guys know that this is this happens a lot. And there, there, there are kind of divisions amongst people, personality-wise, let alone on on doctrine. And we won't really touch doctrine too much to this one, but uh okay, maybe is this true or not that relationships feel heavier inside the church than outside of it.

Why Dislike Feels Worse At Church

Jon 5:17

Like what I mean by that is is is it more, do we feel more weight to get along with people that are Christians inside the church? And then when it doesn't happen, it feels like a heavier burden, or it just it feels like there's a pain there that we need to solve. That is the case for me. I don't really have a lot of friends outside of the church uh and work and things like this. And so most of my relationships kind of center around church relationships, and I do feel like I have a stronger responsibility to uh of my relationships.

Kyle 5:48

I think that's part of I think that's part of the answer that if if you're not at least bothered by the fact that there are people in my church that I don't talk to hardly ever or at all, or I don't know them, or I've just made up my mind that we don't get along and that doesn't bother you, I don't know that we have the answer to fix all that, or that it's necessarily wrong that you don't get along the exact same with everybody. But if there, if on some level that doesn't bother you, I think that's a problem right there.

Nate 6:16

Yeah.

Kyle 6:17

We should all want, we should all want to get up to get along and enjoy uh, you know, brother A and brother B exactly the same. Like we should want that. Now that's not necessarily practical, but I think just wanting that or acknowledging that I wish things were different, or how can I, you know, even just asking the question, how can I make we don't get along, we haven't talked much, we don't have anything in common. What can I do to maybe try and fix that or at least attempt it? I think that's part of the answer.

Jon 6:44

And we're gonna have an opportunity here to get into a lot of the what-ifs and the buts and why most people will address this question, right? And they'll give kind of identifiers to this one of saying, well, do I really need to be best friends with everyone? You start getting into all these kinds of conversations. I think we can address that a little bit later on.

Nate 7:02

I think some people are more bothered by it than others. I think some people like like uh I'm natural naturally a people pleaser. And when somebody I I get the vibe that they don't like me or are not, you know, pleased with me, then I'm just like cognitive dissonance. How can I make them like me? There is something wrong here. What's the what's the issue? Like, I remember the first time I ever had the realization, oh my goodness, there are people who don't like me.

Kyle 7:27

Well, that's what oh, sorry, finish your thought.

Nate 7:30

No, no, and that just like blew my mind. I was like, oh my goodness, how is this possible? Uh that sounds terrible. Like, I sound so arrogant when I say that, but it just I don't know.

Jon 7:38

I just I don't know how that's possible.

Kyle 7:40

Like well, that's that's what I was going back to in my comment about when I was training as a preacher. I think that was the intent of the comment was do your best. And when someone criticizes you or says something about you that's uh unkind, or your initial reaction is, well, that's not true, just stop and contemplate it for a little bit.

Nate 7:59

Yeah.

Kyle 7:59

Maybe they're not entirely right, but is there something you can reflect on? Are they at least maybe partly right and there's something you can improve on? Oh, that's a great point. So it was mostly that was the the intent of that comment was just to prepare me for the fact that not everyone's gonna like you.

Nate 8:14

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle 8:15

Not everyone's gonna like you, and you just need to accept that. Now, that doesn't mean you dismiss the people that don't like you. You say, well, do they have are they onto something here? Is there is there a blind spot I've missed? Maybe I'm not perfect.

Nate 8:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle 8:28

Um doesn't mean you have to take just because they said it doesn't mean you have to take it as gospel truth about you, but sure. And and I've I've I've seen that. Like there have been people that that accuse, not accused, but uh criticize me uh and certain things about the way I preach. And I said, Well, okay. Ultimately, I don't think that's a fair criticism, but you know, I can see I can see why they think that. And I can see how if I preached more about this topic or that topic, it would probably satisfy some of their complaints or concerns. And so I said I don't think they're necessarily right, uh-huh, but I can see where they're coming from, and I can see how my approach led them to think that about me. And so just being open-minded about those criticisms can uh help you make some changes.

Nate 9:10

I I think that's a really mature way to to approach that rather than the knee-jerk reaction, which is like, uh, I don't have any problems or issues. Like, there's no reason for you to not like me.

Kyle 9:20

Well, I may not be as humble as you, Nate, but I am way more mature.

Nate 9:23

Thank you for recognizing that.

Jon 9:24

Uh I well, before we get start getting into because I mean you got you're you just started off into that path perfectly of really trying to analyze this from a relational and uh logical perspective of uh can you make everyone happy? You know, that kind of thing.

Philippians 4 And Public Unity

Jon 9:41

Uh, before we get too far down that, let's look at a biblical um account and representation of something similar to this and see what kind of wisdom we can pull from it. So I'm looking at Philippians 4, verse 2 through 7, uh kind of maybe even verse 1, but this is Paul's letters to the Philippians, and this is where he's talking about Philippians, not not the Philippine Islands. I didn't say that. It sounded it was I I think you said Philippians, but it came back. I got tongue-tied there.

Kyle 10:09

The Philippines won the Manila, Philippines.

Jon 10:11

We're talking about the Philippians, the Philippians from Philippi. Um, uh Eodia and Sentaike. So those are the two people. So let's let's pick up here in verse two. I entreat Eodia and I entreat Sentaiche to agree in the Lord. Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women who have labored side by side with me in the gospel, together with Clement and the rest of the fellow workers whose names are in the book of life. Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God, and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. So we're looking at an account here where these are co-laborers in the gospel, not immature believers, not doctrinal rebels or anything, yet relational tension still existed. Um Paul doesn't shame them necessarily for it. Uh, he doesn't seem to dismiss it either, like it's completely unreasonable, but he calls for unity in the Lord, right? So when we're looking at this one, the core truth I would get from this is we can see them struggle relationally. Like we know this happens. We've seen it all the way in the first century. We can see it now. The goal isn't to force closeness as much as unity, and that's where he that's where he talks about is uh Christ-centered unity. Notice what he does here, though, he addresses this openly with the whole congregation.

Kyle 11:49

That's my favorite part about this is right.

Jon 11:52

So, why do you think he addresses it openly with a whole congregation?

Kyle 11:55

Well, imagine just imagine Yodia and Syntheky's reaction Sunday morning sitting in the pew or whatever they sat in in first century churches. And you know, you you're you're more than halfway through the letter at this point, and then all of a sudden, whoever the the guy who's reading this new letter from Paul says, and I urge Eodia and I and Synthy to get along.

Jon 12:15

Does he pause right after that and look up at them and go and give them a second to slouch down in their look across the auditorium?

Nate 12:23

Euodia? Yeah, because they probably Yeah, they ain't sitting next to each other. Other sides of the room. That's right.

Kyle 12:29

Paul also had a way of not coercing people, but kind of coercing them because like like the same thing with Philemon. Okay, you got this runaway slave, Onesimus. I'm gonna send him back to you. But look, I know you'll do the right thing and let him come back to me because he's very useful to me. I know you'll do even more than I ask. And remember, I'm I'm I'm Paul the aged, you know, a feeble old man who would really benefit from one. So he's basically saying, like, look, I'm not gonna force you to do the right thing, but look, I'm trusting you that you'll do even more than I ask. You know what the right thing to do.

Nate 13:01

So it's like we do that with our kids all the time, right? Like, yeah, I know you'll do the right thing.

Kyle 13:05

And I think with our brethren, I I think the point here that we see all throughout the letters of Paul is I I think it's fair to have high expectations of our brethren.

Nate 13:13

Oh, we shouldn't, yeah.

Kyle 13:15

That I expect I my expectation is that you guys will get over whatever disagreement is there. My expectation is that you guys will learn to put aside lesser differences and be united in in Christ. And and I expect that.

Jon 13:29

I was I was talking to another brother the other day, and I was saying that it's not even being brethren, it's being adults too. Like, like I expect kids to do this, and kids need good examples from their parents and from adults, right? But like there's sometimes where you're just like, you gotta be, you gotta grow up, you gotta be an adult about this, right? Because there are other people's uh lives and focus and you know they're looking for you, but let alone as Christians, we're giving really great examples

Reasonableness And Avoiding Hard Talks

Jon 13:58

here. What does it mean to agree in the Lord? I think it also says, let your reasonableness be made known to everyone. What do you think that and the idea of agreeing in the Lord means? Well, like fake it till you make it or what?

Nate 14:11

Well, to to be reasonable means you are willing to reason something like you both come together and you discuss uh the the principles behind whatever situation you're facing. That's reasoning, right? Like, who did God say? He said, Come let us reason together, right? We're we're gonna talk this out. Um, and so I think that that is, you know, let your reasonableness be known to everyone. Be reasonable.

Jon 14:37

And there's an assumption there.

Nate 14:38

Be willing to sit down and to discuss this, right? You have a reason for why you're acting your the way you're acting. I have a reason for the way I'm acting, I'm acting. Let's listen to each other and come to a a good conclusion about what's the best thing to do. Why is that difficult?

Jon 14:54

For again, let's just hand the pan out here as a not just as Christians or adults, but just as human beings. Why do you think it's difficult um to be to to be agreeable with people and to be reasonable with people?

Nate 15:08

Well, because I don't I don't know what everybody thinks, but I think it's because uh nobody wants to be wrong. If I'm if I'm gonna be reasonable, then maybe that means that I might be wrong. I don't want to be wrong. Um so I I don't know. Why do why do you think that is?

Jon 15:24

Well, I I think we avoid hard conversations and difficulties, right? Yeah. We kind of um it's kind of known that we avoid pain as much as we can as human beings, whether it be uh picking up our phone to avoid boredom, whatever it is, we generally avoid pain and discomfort, and so we replace that with something else. And I think that that what we do sometimes hear with relationships is we put distance in between people and we say, you know, we call that peace or keeping the peace, but we we we put distance in between people. But the human pattern is we drift toward people like us, uh-huh, we retreat from discomfort, and we justify avoidance as maybe maturity. Like, you know, like uh they're them, I'm me, and we just we're oil and water and we just don't get along. So let bygones or something. But generally, we're just comfortable with that kind of separation, but that's the question I kind of prompt in here. I think avoidance often projects pride more than it does actual peace. And we're we're told in this this account here with these two women, what does he want? He wants unity. He doesn't want people to manufacture separation because we cannot be reasonable.

Nate 16:37

So I I heard a preacher say one time, and I think I agree with him. He said, Are we really taking a godly attitude if we say, Well, I have to love him, but I don't have to like them? That seems to me like a pharisaical attitude, like, well, I know what it says, but I don't have to feel that way towards them. I don't have to try to, you know, make that relationship better. Yeah, I have to do what's best for them, i.e., love them. Ugh, I guess I have to, but I don't have to r really make any effort to try and uh make a quality relationship there with that person. I think that's totally missing the point. Like that reminds me of that the old bracelets, WWJD. What would Jesus do, right? Is that what Jesus would do? Well, that Nate guy, I don't like him. Uh I mean, I love him, right? I've sacrificed myself for him, but but I don't really like him. So I I did what I I did what I could. I did what I should have for him.

“Love Them Not Like Them” Tested

Jon 17:27

Were you allowed to wear those?

Nate 17:29

WWJD. I wasn't allowed to wear. Oh, I I think you missed the point, John.

Jon 17:34

No, you know what? Can one of you read Colossians 3, 12 through 14? 12 through 14.

Nate 17:40

Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another, and if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these, put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

Jon 18:00

Okay, then we will take that. So what would you notice from this uh scripture? Anything that comes out that feels relevant to our conversation right now.

Nate 18:09

Compassionate hearts.

Jon 18:11

Compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, patience, okay, bearing with one another.

Nate 18:17

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jon 18:18

And if one has a complaint against another, what?

Nate 18:22

You forget Go your separate ways. Yeah, yeah, go your separate ways and don't talk to each other anymore.

Jon 18:26

Does that make Paul a hypocrite for him and Barnabas? For him and Barnabas. I don't think so because I think that's a good idea.

Kyle 18:32

Because if I'm how you look at the key, I'm almost thinking that.

Jon 18:35

But it depends on how you look at that. Were they being was that actually an example of being mature? They had work, uh they had works to do and they went off to do the works, they just did it separately. I mean, just because they did that doesn't mean that that's the perspective God wanted for them. Right? Do you do you see that them doing that was like an example for us? I don't see that Barnabas and Paul was a good example for us necessarily. Unless it is that is better than divisiveness.

Nate 19:04

Well, there's also there there might be an urgency factor here too, yeah. Where where working things out may be um may may take a while, and there is a job that needs to be done that is not going to take that that cannot wait. Yeah. And therefore we must we must do this thing now.

Jon 19:22

And so that's Acts 15, what, 36, 41. Do you notice them having bitterness towards each other in that though? Like I think maybe that's a key aspect though. I don't notice them. And it doesn't I don't know that there was like an ill will or betterness towards each other coming from that. That that seems to be an outlier to all the other uh like if you're looking if you're going at the scripture and you're looking at the the message, you know, as it's full context, I think that seems to be kind of an outlier if you're saying here's a great example that we don't have to get along.

Nate 19:55

Well and and like I'm thinking about strategy too. Like maybe Barnabas had one idea about how to do it and Paul had another idea about how to do it. And it's and could Paul be compassionate towards Barnabas and kind and humble and meek and patient.

Kyle 20:11

I think you're right, Nate. I think that example is less about uh just they they don't get along or they don't click or they have different personalities versus they have a different mindset or strategy about the work. Paul's basically uh my understanding is Paul is saying that uh John Mark is unreliable. Yeah. And so I'd rather bring someone that I can count up on.

Nate 20:34

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like maybe Barnabas is trying to give him a chance and and Paul is saying, like, hey, look, uh I don't have the time right now to be to be given chances. I need we got some important work we

What Love Looks Like In Practice

Nate 20:45

gotta do.

Jon 20:45

Well let's shift from from that side example. Um, and let's look at so at the end of the Colossians 3, 4 uh 12 through 14, it says, put on what? Put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And so I want to look at, and then you can shift over to 1 Corinthians 13, 4 through 7. And so before we ask what love requires of us, we can look at and kind of focus more on uh what love is and uh what are we to put on? I would look at this and say, love is patient. So when they frustrate you, does patience live in your heart or does strife live in your heart, right? Um, love is kind. What tone does your heart take when you talk about them? Are you kind towards them when you when you bring them up? Or do people know from your tone and your feelings that you you have frustration with them? Love is not irritable. Do you tense up when they walk around or walk into the room? Can you not be in the same room? Do you do you hold this kind of mentality that, oh, if they're here, I can't be or I want to run? Love keeps no record of wrongs. Are you replaying old conversations in your heart? Are you holding on to things that maybe Yeah, this is one of the things I've told people too. It's probably not the right perspective, but I have a general feeling that most people are dumb. You know, I won't be surprised when they do dumb things. And that's the thing, is that's what allows me to give people a lot of grace because I expect people to be when they're running on, they're not thinking, when they are not thinking intentionally about being kind, they run on autopilot and they they can be dumb towards each other or insensitive or unkind. And so if I understand that that's probably the default of what it would default to if they're not being intentional, then when they are that way and I see them as other times they've been kind to me, then I can go, maybe that's the outlier. And I can go, hmm, maybe I'm gonna give them grace on that one and I'm gonna overlook it, or hey, you you said this thing, or hey, um, you didn't invite me to XYZ, or hey, um, you said this to so and so, and I heard it, and you know, it no matter what it is, is I feel like we can give a little more grace to that one, and love keeps no record of the wrongs. Yeah. So does that mean we we just don't obviously remember anything? No, we do. We just don't hold it against them. Yeah, we don't replay that, and we don't then um have this avoidance of them, right?

Nate 23:13

Yeah, well, in uh the in the passage in Colossians, Colossians 3, 14, above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony um or completeness. Like, can you say, Oh, our this is perfect harmony within our spiritual family, if uh I'm on this side and you're on that side, and we both agreed to like not like each other and not even work on it, right? That's not perfect harmony. Yeah. That's not working towards you know the Christ-like mature relationship with with our spiritual family.

Jon 23:52

Yeah, and so what I get from this is Christian love is about your heart towards someone, not maybe your social proximity to them. It's it's not whether they're close to you in relation, close it's it's about your heart and it's about your attitude. As most things relationally are, um, you're not responsible for the chemistry and the um the things you have in common with people. What are you responsible for? Your heart, your tone, your humility, and your pursuit of peace. Where we get this wrong is when we expect instant closeness with people or we settle for polite coldness, uh, we make we mistake uh friendliness, you know, for love in in in different fashions. But I don't know. I I just think that it's important to really understand, okay, what love is, then we're told we need to foster this. And so how how do we do that? How do you go against that in the nature sometimes where it is so easy to not be intentional and to be into whole grudges and to just not you know, a lot have you ever noticed that a lot of times when you know maybe two people don't get along, they're basing that a lot of times on assumptions and not actual things they know for facts. Like, oh, they didn't invite me, so they must hate me, or I'm not best friends with them, so they might not they only like these people over here. Oh, yeah. And I just there's always so many assumptions. Sometimes there's actual cold hard evidence of people saying hurtful things, but yeah, I think a lot of the times that's based upon perceptions of things. And we have a large congregation. So I mean, I don't know what your congregation looks like out there. If you have 50 people, it's probably a lot easier to be super good friends with pretty much everyone in that circle, sure, especially by age levels and things go. But if you have a congregation of 300, uh 250 to 300, it can be difficult to know everyone, let alone to be super relational to them. And I think we've talked about other podcasts before where our brain can only hold on to a certain amount of names at one point in time, let alone close relationships with people. So we have some limitations. We we can get spread thin. So what does

Peace As Far As Depends On You

Jon 26:04

this mean? What does it practically look like when you're in a congregation with people? Do I have to strive to be best friends with people? If I don't get along with someone, how should I be addressing that? Should I avoid it? How hard do I work towards it? Is it all on me? You know, what if they don't come to the table? What if they don't try? What are you guys' thoughts about this?

Nate 26:26

The the passage that comes to mind is uh the Romans 12 18, if it is possible, as far as it depends on you, be at peace with with all men. So if you suspect that there's some sort of issue between you and person X, um I I think probably the mature thing to do uh I don't know. You guys point out the truth here to me. Um I think probably the mature thing to do is if you think there's an issue, address it. Hey, it seems like there's an issue here between you and me. You know, I don't have a problem with you. Do you have a problem with me? Okay, what is it? Maybe that's a little bit too blunt. But but addressing that issue, I think is the mature thing to do. I raise my hand and be the first to say, I have not always done that. Um, but I think that like it if if you think there's a problem there, then you should probably solve it. Otherwise, you're gonna continue to think there's a problem there.

Jon 27:23

No, I I'm bringing this topic up because I feel like when I'm not very intentional about this, I can fall into some bad habits where I'm a little bit okay with this, where you might lean a little bit more into gossip or you know, discussion about people and and negative negativity and stuff. And so I I I kind of bring this up thinking this is something that I want to be more mindful myself, but I do feel like others can relate to and and and we all have to deal with that keeping intentionally unified at all times.

Nate 27:53

And so I can I can think of two people right now, like, oh well, I should probably go should count which one I I should probably have a conversation with that person. You should tell me and we'll just put in the outtakes. Uh we'll stay along to the ending. Oh, yeah.

Kyle 28:06

Yeah, the other one's here, but I think it's I think it's fair to say that I I love them, but I don't like them right now. That that idea of right now, I think, is important. And I think that's a fair acknowledgement that life is messy sometimes and uh fellowship is messy when we have different values or upbringings or experiences and baggage that we bring with us. But I think the problem is when it becomes simply a cop-out of like that's just how it is. Now, when you s when when your attitude is for right now, I think it acknowledges that there that person is valuable and that uh I I will I will spend money to put them up in a hotel if their house is their house burned down or something, like I'll feed them if they're hungry, like you know, I I will still take care of them and I will still pray for them, and I will still go out of my way to help them if they need a ride somewhere, like I'll do those things for them, you know. I love them, that's what's emphasized there. So I think it is it there is some value in that concept of acknowledging that my feelings aren't necessarily the the the be-all end-all of everything, that what matters is their value in the eyes of God, which makes them valuable to me. But that I I think we're on the right track, that it it does seem bothersome to me. And I I know you looked a little later in the chapter, but Romans 12 and verse 10 says, be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love in honor by giving preference to one another. So a passage like that says that well, at times we might be Eudea and Syntichy or Paul and Barnabas, we ought to be looking for solutions, and how can we bring it back to uh and it doesn't just say love is in some sort of cold and indifferent. Well, that's not even the right way to say it, but some sort of emotionless, some sort of emotionless what is in your best interest, whether I like you or not. He he does talk about that kindly affectionate and brotherly love, and about giving preference to one another.

Jon 30:20

And that can be really hard. Kyle, I love everything you just said.

Nate 30:25

But thank you for listening, we just absolutely enjoyed a podcast.

Jon 30:28

I know, which is crazy. Uh and I don't have anything I would change. I love the fact that you said that because that's a very um it has lots of grace in it. You're you're you're saying to acknowledge this is a difficult subject and one does not have to make immediate focused changes overnight. I think it's important, but I and I love what you added to that as far as the idea of not yet.

Three Steps Toward Real Unity

Jon 30:56

And so I would propose three ways right now that you three things you could do right now if you find yourself in that situation where you may not um you may love because you know that is your command and that is your goal, but you have disagreements and you have a difficult liking someone. But if you acknowledge that and that you're not gonna sit in that and you're gonna try to make improvement, three three three things you could do. And one is pray intentionally for that person you struggle with. Pray for your relationship, pray for that person. If you haven't done that yet, you really haven't made any progress. You really haven't done the first and main thing we have, you know, access to to improve relationships with people.

Kyle 31:40

I think it's kind of like that episode of the Big Bang Theory where they were testing out this the the psychology theory that if you stare in direct eye contact for what was it like 20 minutes that you will fall in love with that person. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All jokes aside, I think it's kind of the same idea is that if you are intentionally putting them at the at the as a focal point of your prayers in positivity, yeah. Yeah, in a positive light. In a positive way. Yeah, not not an imprecatory God, just destroy them right now. Yeah, give them a challenge. Yeah, yeah, as a positive thing. I I think it carries that I I don't know anything about the the psychology of that. It's just a you know, I reference a TV show, not a psychology journal.

Jon 32:21

I like that one.

Kyle 32:22

But I like the principle applying here that yeah, if you positively put them as the focal point of your prayers, I think my my my hope would be that that would change and soften your your attitude towards them.

Jon 32:34

Yeah. Uh open your eyes, soften your heart. Number two, this is a difficult one. Speak well of them publicly. It might go against that internal nature or the internal feeling. You'll find those times where I mean, we shouldn't be gossiping anyways. We we shouldn't be talking ill about anyone, anyways, but my point is take that an intentional perspective about speaking not ill, not at all, but well of them, towards a positive perspective. You're you're now leading it towards even more positivity. You're praying about them, you're speaking positively about them, publicly in other people.

Kyle 33:12

Let me do that right now, also as a as a sly test if she's actually listening. So, yes, John's wife Taylor pretty much lines up opposite of me when it comes to sports teams or movies or music in particular. Whatever whatever I love, whatever my favorites are, she hates and has some sort of trauma attached to it or something like that. Um But I will say this that I I have a very high opinion of John's wife, and I I know that there are times like when Jessica's not here and I've got the kids and I'm about to go up and preach, and it's like, okay, two minutes till things start. I always know I can go to her and she'll optimistically say, Oh yeah, yeah, I'll watch him, you know. Uh she has so many great qualities and things like that that that I don't really care. It's more just a matter of joking when it comes to those things because the things we have in common um, you know, our shared love of God and John Um outweighs any of those other trivial things. So it just puts into perspective. So I'll say some nice things about her right now. She's she's a uh a a super, super kind person and very uh helpful.

Jon 34:24

And the fact that she's mentioned somewhere in the podcast, she'll have to figure it out. But I won't tell her it's at the end. Good job. Um but no, and then specifically kind of aligned to what Kyle just did verbally for us is number three, if needed, pursue a gentle, clarifying conversation. So the first one, pray for them, number two, speak well of them publicly. Third, if it could be disagreement, I mean it could be dis an actual disagreement, or it could be assumptions we're making, it could be misunderstandings. So if you feel like that that needs to be done, and I've seen people do this really well, and in it goes into it with a clarifying, I mean give give an example of what maybe look good, because I feel like when people do this well, they say you don't want to half apologize for something, or you don't want to like you when you're going into a conversation it's difficult. I think it helps asking stating I don't know if this is the case, but it feels to me like XYZ. But I wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify that for me. If you don't feel this way, or if I'm making this up, please let me know. You know, addressing in a certain way, not like, hey, why don't you like me? You know, or or hey, why did you hate this? XYZ. But does that make sense? Is to approach it from a sense of humility that maybe you don't have all the information. Maybe you or maybe they have no problem with you, and you're just reading into everything. So it's you know, I maybe I'm reading into this, but are we okay?

Kyle 35:52

Well, and you don't want to make it all about yourself. That's why you frame it as like, what's wrong with you?

Jon 35:57

Yeah, or no, no, have I getting it something to offend you? Is there something that I need to apologize for? Because I I feel there's tension, and maybe I've done something that I didn't, you know, I I I don't have any grudges towards you, and I don't have any negativity towards you. Maybe I've done something and I've gotten some coldness from you lately. Is that you know?

Nate 36:17

Yeah, put the burden on yourself and not necessarily on them and say, Well, is there something I did?

Jon 36:22

And I've seen people do that, and people have done that to me, and that really helped actually just make me feel like, oh, okay, well, you know, maybe I read too much into that, you know?

Heart Checks And Gospel Motivation

Jon 36:31

All right, well, uh before uh Kyle leads us out, I'll leave you with a couple like heart checks here. Uh what lie uh what lives in your heart towards, you know, think of someone right now. Think of um who comes to mind right now in this conversation as you're thinking about this? Is your distance rooted in preference and pride? Uh, what lives in your heart towards them? And what maybe will you do this week? What what will you do in order to change it? I just at least start praying for them. Take a first step, praying for them, pray for their relationship, speak about them well publicly, and if needed, yeah, get that clarifying, gentle conversation. Um, the church isn't a curated friend group, it's a redeemed family. Christ died for them. Your heart toward them now matters. So you just think about that. Take a little self-check, think about what do you have in your heart towards them.

Kyle 37:21

Well, and also it's representing the name of Christ with when people see how the church treats each other. Yeah. In Philippians chapter four, I kept coming back to that main text you brought up, John. That that a few thoughts here is one when he talks about let your gentleness be known to all men. What he's saying is that people see Christ. And if they come into this church and they see a bunch of people in in clicks that don't talk to each other, that's a bad reflection on Christ. So that's one consideration. But the other thing that that caught my attention in Philippians 4 and in all the the points you were making, John, and and throughout this podcast, is that what Paul emphasizes here is uh the the true companionship, these women who labored with me in the gospel. Uh he's talking about the fellowship they have in the work. He talks about the fact whose names are in the book of life. That's something they had in common. Uh and and rejoice and in the Lord uh and then be anxious for nothing. And he talks about the peace of God that we all have. So he's talking about the things that they had in common, their common goals, their common work in which they labored together for the common objective of glorifying Jesus and spreading the borders of his kingdom. And so when we think about Christ's kingdom and what we share in common, that really should just put into perspective how silly arguing over personalities or sports teams or music or just those things just melt away in insignificance in in light of our mission that we share as redeemed followers of our king. So we need to focus on what unites us and let all the other things just kind of melt away as unimportant.

Closing Charge Plus The Funny Outro

Jon 39:09

The the reason why I think about this and I thought about this episode a lot is two we we have a couple episodes that have had a lot of views in our um in our library here. Back in the But we've had a lot that haven't.

Kyle 39:23

Why don't you guys like us more?

Jon 39:26

But one of the like episode nine we did like years ago was letting go of offenses, right? And that had a lot of of um traction. And then most recently, one of the most listened to and looked at episodes was as number 75, a biblical response for feeling left out. And we kind of talked about that. We had a good conversation about that. And I think that that's seeing as that that's a trend, is a lot of the times everyone wants to feel wanted, everyone wants to feel liked, everyone wants to feel love. And because we have that craving and desire to be appreciated and seen and heard and everything, um, when it doesn't happen, it hurts, it really does hurt. I'm sure we all feel that way. If you're feeling this, if you if this is something that's on your heart, um, we we'd love to hear from you. And maybe there's a topic that you'd like us to talk about. But these are the kinds of things I love. I think everything, our entire walk, our raising of our kids, everything is benefited when we are very intentional about finding ways to have better relationships with each other.

Kyle 40:30

Well, thank you so much, John, and to a lesser extent, Nate. Thanks. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks for your contributions amazing timing here.

Nate 40:41

That was very comedic.

Kyle 40:43

And thank you, most of all, to our listeners for for tuning in and listening to this newest episode of the Exorder podcast. We are really grateful for the listens. Uh, wish you liked us a little more and listened more, or maybe shared uh a little bit more with your friends. You know, that would really help us out. We'd we'd love that. They love us. Is there something we're doing wrong? Is it yeah, yeah, there you go. But but uh think about who's that who's the person you're thinking about this episode. Maybe uh maybe give them a call, or or next time you're at church, uh go go talk to them. Maybe say a prayer, a couple prayers this week with them as the focal point of it. Uh say some kind words about them. And uh be sure to let your light shine. And uh that's a good way to exhort others. So thank you for listening and tuning in. We'll see you next time.

Nate 41:27

You may not love us, but please like us and subscribe. And subscribe. Did we just find a new comedic outro? You may not love us, but please like us and subscribe.

Jon 41:40

I think we did. Oh excellent. Check one, one, two, three, one, two, three. Welcome to the Exorder Podcast, where you disturb love and good works. Through bite-sized biblical discussions. Well, today today. Okay, everyone's got their mic, their headset, we're all good. I think so. Yeah, pulling up a couple.

Nate 42:15

This gets easier every time. Like, like I remember when I first started, I had to look at the board. Yeah, yeah.

Jon 42:21

Yeah.

Nate 42:22

I don't have to look at the board as much. It doesn't take much. Yeah, John, you're on the other side. I think you're Kyle Cheating. Well, maybe.

Jon 42:29

Maybe that is one of the issues with Kyle is literally with his back towards at all times. Literally. Literally.

Kyle 42:35

It's right behind the set. Literally. You know me. I'm at my best without the screen. Don't box me in, man.

Nate 42:43

I'm still impressed with the fact that you do not take uh notes up. Notes up there, man. Like I would.

Jon 42:50

It's pretty impressive, I have to say that. I really hate saying it.

Nate 42:54

Um welcome to the Exorder Podcast, where we aim to store up store up. We're gonna all the love and good work. I thought you were doing good to somebody. What happened to that? I just got finished saying that.

Kyle 43:08

It's gotten easier. When the economy collapses, we will have all of the love and good works.

Nate 43:14

We store up love and good work.