Before the Applause Podcast
Before the Applause Podcast – hosted by David Watson – is your backstage pass to the creative industries. This audio deep dive uncovers the real stories behind the arts and cultural experiences we all enjoy but rarely think about before the curtain rises.
Each episode brings you candid conversations with the people who make it happen—dancers, producers, designers, actors, DJs, photographers, costumers, marketers, publicists, data analysts, and many more. From the triumphs to the challenges, David lifts the lid on what it truly means to build a career in this dynamic and ever-evolving industry.
Whether you’re an aspiring creative, a seasoned professional, or just curious about the work behind the magic, Before the Applause is here to celebrate the people who bring ideas to life.
Before the Applause Podcast
Blue Circles and Breaking Boundaries: The Art of Drag & Self-Discovery with Pip Doran / Sister Sister
Creativity blooms in unexpected places. For Pip Doran - better known to fans worldwide as the blue circle-wearing Scouse drag superstar Sister Sister - early inspiration came from a female-led household where art experimentation wasn't just allowed, it was celebrated. From fashioning portraits out of family laundry to channeling the energy of beloved television characters, Pip's journey reveals how childhood freedom to explore laid the foundation for a multifaceted creative career.
"I've never been very careful," Pip confesses midway through our conversation, reflecting on a life marked by bold choices and calculated risks. This philosophy guided them through multiple university attempts, a late entry into drag performance at age 27, and the creation of Sister Sister's unmistakable aesthetic - particularly that signature blue circle makeup that sets them apart in an increasingly crowded drag landscape. The conversation weaves through formative cultural influences (from Dawn French to Gem and the Holograms), revealing how these touchstones continue to inform their artistic expression today.
Perhaps most compelling is Pip's candid reflection on their RuPaul's Drag Race UK experience, offering rare insights into both the production realities and the devastating aftermath of online abuse that followed. Their decision to speak publicly about this experience in The Guardian marked an important moment in the ongoing conversation about reality TV and contestant mental health. Yet despite these challenges, Pip continues to evolve creatively - from massage therapy to visual art exhibitions - embracing a more balanced approach to life and work.
Whether you're a drag enthusiast, an aspiring creative, or simply someone navigating your own path of self-expression, this episode delivers profound insights on vulnerability, authenticity, and the courage to carve your own unique space in the world. Subscribe now and join us for more inspiring conversations with extraordinary creators who reveal what happens before the applause.
Instagram: @officialsistersister
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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email studio@beforetheapplausepod.com
Welcome to this new episode of Before the Applause with me, your host, david Watson. In this episode I talk to Pip Doran, artist, activist, producer, creative entrepreneur and known to many around the world as the blue circle wearing Scouse Drag superstar, sister Sister. They reflect from growing up in a female-led household that allowed their exploration of self-expression and creativity. We talk about their winding journey for education and how finding the right path ultimately led to a fulfilling career. We revisit the early spark that introduced them to drag, how curiosity turned into passion and how a love for the art form was born. Pip, aka Sister Sister, loves a charity shop. We talk about how they create epic, memorable looks of personality, humour and heart, but focusing on high performance, not high price tag. We also explore how embracing impulsiveness has led to some of their most defining career moments and why others should say yes and embrace more opportunity. But this is a conversation about what happens when the spotlight dims. But this is a conversation about what happens when the spotlight dims.
Speaker 1:Pip opens up about stepping back from the intensity of drag to fully embrace their wider artistic identity and aspirations and interest in wellness and a more balanced way of life as a visual artist, a thoughtful producer, a creative soul navigating life at a different place on their own terms. It's all about evolution From vulnerability to vision. Chaos to craft. This episode is a celebration of carving your own path and honouring every part of who you are. Grab a cup of something nice and join us as we discover more. Before the applause Pip aka Drag Superstar sister, sister, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I can't believe. I can't believe I'm here. What do you mean? Come?
Speaker 1:over here.
Speaker 2:I just got this, this, this beautiful moment between us. I've got to say I've been staring at the artwork behind you the whole time who is that?
Speaker 1:so this is a picture that I was part of helping to make with the photographer, perry curtis, for english national ballet. So this is a real dancer, stunning. And I have another one in the other room and this was a campaign for London, for English National Ballet, for a triple bill called. She Said so it's all about choreography for women and dancers. And yeah, yes, you haven't seen what I've got in the other room. Oh, I have a eight foot Danny beard against the wall.
Speaker 2:Finally, when I brought it from the show oh god, help you. No one needs that, do they?
Speaker 1:she does look beat, she looks gorgeous, yes, she is, she's a beautiful lady. She's a beautiful lady I will send you a picture later on. I slightly underestimated the size of it to fit in the flat is it massive?
Speaker 1:you got high ceilings. Well, I thought I did and then I'll show you afterwards. So thank you again for coming on. We know each other from working on Queen, the Exhibition which put together a Walker Art Gallery involving lots of amazing artists from Liverpool, from Liverpool, and we'll get into that. But I really thought about wanting you on this show to talk about your eclectic career and your journey. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I would say that that exhibition, for me, is also something quite reflective of you, which is, of course, being a sickening drag queen, but also high, high art and arty, and I feel your world is that combination between art and drag as a whole, would you say that's a good description of what you do.
Speaker 2:I think that's it. Yeah, I think that's nail on the head. I wouldn't say that it's been an easy journey to try and find that as well, and I'm not sure, I'm not really sure why because it seems like they should just go hand in hand the world of drag in the world of, you know, creativity and art and galleries and stuff. I will say when I was first starting off doing drag, I felt like I had to kind of leave some of that practice at the door a little bit. But that's only because I'm not I'm not like a professionally trained stage person. I've never done any kind of, you know, practice for it. And I started my. My first entry into drag was it was a bar in camden called hair upstairs. I started going after work one day with some friends and was like oh my god, everyone's got like a, like an entry point to like their first drag. Like, oh my God, because they are just ginormous people. And I was there and I was like this is really cool. And it was. You know, it was very left wing, it was quite punk, and then I went away and at the time I was watching season seven of RuPaul's Drag Race. I want to say it was. It was the season that Sasha Velour won anyway, of RuPaul's Drag Race. I want to say it was. It was the season that Sasha Velour won anyway.
Speaker 2:Oh, iconic, so gorgeous, but like she married all those things together for me and I was like, whoa, you can, you can do this.
Speaker 2:If you can be bald, you can be a bald queen. It's not just all about wigs and stuff, and that's when I started practicing with it and I got, you know, I bought the cheapest makeup that eBay had, um, the cheapest wigs and, just you know, tights. And you start, you I. I lived in southeast london, so I lived right by catford and used to cycle to all the charity shops and braid them with horrible, horrible clothes, um, and try and make drag outfits out of it, and that was all. It was fun putting the things together, but the bit that I was so attracted to is when you make the mix and you make the, you you like, you design the number from scratch and you pick a song and you find the narrative in it and then everything starts to to flow and I loved that. And then it was literally within a matter of weeks that I was on that same stage, performing, not getting paid for it.
Speaker 2:It was during a drag competition, but I did quite well in that competition and then from that you sort of you're given a lot of stage time so you can learn your craft and you can go okay, well, I'm not that good at that bit, but I can do a bit of comedy and I can do blah, blah, blah and then the whole thing just sort of like yeah, yeah, pieces together and that's it, it's um it. I I still say to people now who come to me saying I'm thinking about starting dragging, that you need experience. You don't need experience to start it, you have to. You can start at whatever level, but you need experience to build up and build up and build up to.
Speaker 1:You know, just be as the best version of you and do you feel now you mentioned like you couldn't bring the art and the drag together. Do you feel like that's a whole different world now and that you feel comfortable working in all that spectrum?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've been quite lucky. I've, I've been offered opportunities I never thought in a million years I'd be able to perform at. You know, the London Palladium for sold-out shows, and the Liverpool Empire and all these, you know the Glasgow Armadillo. It's just insane when I look back at all the venues that I've done, a big solidifying moment for like my creativity, so my art stuff, and then having an opportunity to perform and project that art stuff to it to big audiences with the. It was the drag race, okay, season two tour that we got, which is a big, big UK tour, 42 day tour and I I looked at it because they give you like five minutes on stage as a set to just sort of do your thing and you're like, oh, a whole five minutes, thank you. But when there's 12 of us, I know, when there's opening numbers and there's bits in the middle and there's all these and they have like their own inserts and stuff, it's like it's a two-hour show altogether. So five minutes and they're like you can do what you want for five minutes. It's just you on stage. We're going to give you some dancers, you've got a huge wall of projected visuals that you can use and you can design those as well. So we were given four dancers and, you know, the queens were like using their dancers to dance and do all this amazing choreography. And I was like, wow, that's incredible, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to use them, obviously, but I'm going to. And I had these giant axes, these big foam axes, made up. And then, to Patsy Cline's crazy, I entered the stage dragging one of the dancers he was already dead and then, throughout the performance of just the entire song, I just pulled these giant axes out and killed these dancers. So by the end of it, the stage was just, it was just filled with dead, dead dancers. And then, to conclude, I just walked off stage and then that was it. And it's kind of like, oh, you're not a senior again, I just I just killed all these people and got away with it.
Speaker 2:And there was a real, I think, off the back of the drag race show as well, there was this real sense of just wanting to prove myself because there's only so much that you can get across on, yeah, on a tv show, because there's so many of you and you're all fighting for airtime and blah, blah, blah. I didn't feel like my, my, my real drag personality, the one that I learned on the stage and being able to craft, and, you know, the ability to hold an audience, a live audience, in front of you for as long as you can. I don't think I.
Speaker 2:I um, it came across that I could do that on the show. So the next big opportunity was to okay, well, you've got this, you've got this tour, what are you going to do? How can you prove yourself to it? So I gave, I gave my all, and that was the moment, when I was performing that, that I really felt right, these two things have come together. Now that is my creativity, that's my art world, and this is my drag world, and the two merged and I yeah, it was great, absolutely love that and the rest is history, honey.
Speaker 1:The rest is history, honey. I wanted to go back a few years, obviously, because you're still a baby. But what was Pip like growing up and was art and creativity as part of your thing and your interest at that point?
Speaker 2:It was. I grew up around women. So I'm one of three kids. I'm the youngest, I've got two older sisters, I've got a bunch of aunties, got a bunch of women cousins. My nan was always close to hand. My mom's friends were all women. My dad worked away at sea so he was away for like six to ten months of the year sometimes when I was young, like real formative years. So we just grew up around these women and then when we got a dog, that was that was female, and then when we got a cat, that was female and the guinea pig was a female. So it was just like real strong feminine energy and I remember my mum's got this story, um, growing up around these girls and there was in my house. We were just a very close-knit family. We're all very comfortable with each other.
Speaker 2:So there's just like you know, bras and stuff, because my mum was doing the washing or whatever, and then you see your mum wearing the bra and you're like I'm gonna put that bra on. So you put the bra on and then do you remember? Um, you remember art attack. Oh god, yeah, this is an art attack. This is an art attack. Neil buchanan neil bukaki as we call him neil buchanan, had this, um, there was this segment during it where he'd he'd have like a material it'd be like old washing or something and he'd make these big artifacts on the floor. And then he hit. There was, um, there was a bird's eye camera and it would zoom out to to make these things. I used to do those with washing but I'd always make these like they were portraits of women, but out of bras and like old knickers and stuff. But they were, yes, just like. Yeah, they were just portraits of women. I was obsessed with them. So I'd just take over my mum's living room floor with all this washing and that was allowed. That was like an okay thing to do.
Speaker 2:But I remember there's a video of me, a VHS. I am a lady. I am a lady of a certain age. We're on holiday in the caravan somewhere. It's me and my two sisters playing and playing on some front lawn and I've got um, a really long t-shirt on. It's probably like one of my mom's is really on t-shirt. I fashioned it as a dress and for some reason we pulled a red glitter wig out of somewhere and i'm'm wearing this wig. I'm young, I'm like five or six years old and I've got these mannerisms down to a T and they're really like just super, like supermodel on a runway. Where the hell did I see that? Where the hell did I get that from? Oh?
Speaker 1:you're just feeling it.
Speaker 2:You're just feeling the natural energy of it. There was something there and I think we were in like south wales or something. I was feeling the energy of wales. So I've had this like um, yeah, this like feminine spirit, this, this divine feminine spirit just kind of like around me and and allowed me to sort of be myself from from a super young age.
Speaker 1:From super young age which is pretty extraordinary and it's so funny because, yeah, art tech was legendary and impactful. I grew up with loads of women around me as well, and it's such an influential thing. But it sounds like also, you're describing it as a really open, fun space to be in, and everything you were experimenting playing was okay too, which is quite a rare story to hear.
Speaker 2:Actually, yeah, yeah, I think so. My mum told me as well. Like when I was an adult. There was a moment when I came back from sea and it was always like this this disrupted oh god, there's a, there's a big, you know, dominating male energy back in there, back in the house. That's who he was. I think all sailors have that sort of bad energy about them. They're a bit stoic, they've spent a lot of time away. They can't really integrate properly. And, um, I was messing around with one of these bras, just playing dress up with with my sisters and my mom sort of kind of recognized bear in mind, this is the early 90s my mom's sort of like, oh, I think she became a bit um, protective of me, thinking, oh god, what's, what's his dad think? So she was a bit like oh no, you know, we don't, maybe we shouldn't. Is there anything else we can do? And apparently my dad was just like, oh, let the boy play, he's having a nice time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just let him crap on. Do you know what I mean? How cute is that.
Speaker 1:That's really cute. Oh, that makes my heart a little beat harder. That's I know. It's nice, isn't it? Yeah, growing up a little bit from that, I wondered if you started getting cultural obsessions, perhaps, like you were into tv or certain pop stars or comedians I know, I know you are quite funny and you, you do a lot of comedy. I just wondered if that started at that point as you're growing up, before you really went into drag yeah, big, big kind of tv shows that were big influences on me.
Speaker 2:I remember watching the muppets. That was one, and the second one was um, the french and saunders comedy series that was airing at the same time. Quite two opposing tv shows there, but actually I'd say, in the same vein, very, very silly, dawn french is my hero. She's been my hero for um as long as I can remember. There's just something that's always been so fun and safe about that woman. I've been, I'm I'm obsessed with her and I got to meet her in 2022, I think it was.
Speaker 2:She came to one of the shows at like south end on sea, and she was backstage of all places, of all the places, and I I just walked in. She they announced, they said if anyone at dawn see you tonight, if anyone wants to go and meet her, she'll be in the green room. If anyone just wants like a little chat with her, and I was like down to all, straight away, I need to meet this one. My heart was racing as I was walking to walk, walking to go there, and then I just walked in and, sort of like I said hi, gave her a hug and she was like hello. I was like hello, how are, how are you, dawn French?
Speaker 2:And we immediately got talking about um, she does a skit. Her and her and, uh, jennifer Saunders are obsessed with Madonna and they've got this kind of like poke fun of Madonna but also like we idolize her so much that we couldn't possibly make that much fun of her because we worship her too much but also we can't. We can't not make fun of her. And they were talking about the sketch that they've got in the and one of the. I think it's like season four of french and saunders, where they do the in bed with madonna and it's it's black and white, they're eating chocolate soup because it's good for the throat and it will. It will compromise my artistic integrity and they just keep saying the boat dress does that. And we talked about that and she said oh yeah, like, usually, like once a year, we reach out to her and say does she want to be, does she want to be involved with something? And obviously I'm like does she reply no, of course she doesn't like to do everything, everything they do.
Speaker 1:They just invite madonna too she is a special woman, I agree. She's definitely on my list of people I grew up with and I know what you mean about. Like you're just drawn to dawn. I find it really difficult to describe what it, because she it's not just the funniness, is it? She's got this energy and I don't know what it is, but I'm just like God. I really want to sit down and have a brew with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, she's like a mum character as well. I don't know she gives like funny auntie, like the auntie you don't see all the time, and when she turns up, you know, you know she you're going to have an absolute riot laugh with her. That's what she gives me.
Speaker 1:And they often say I say they who's? They Don't meet your idols. Was she everything you wanted her to be? She?
Speaker 2:was everything. She was absolutely everything. So nice to hear she was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, she was lovely. Most people on this podcast go. I met the idol and they're horrific.
Speaker 2:Well, like another idol for me, she's like I'd say dawn french is more of a hero, I think, and she's like, she's a touchable hero for me as well. An idol for me that I wouldn't want to meet is madonna, and I know just because she'd absolutely ruin it for me.
Speaker 1:Oh, god, yeah, I just see stuff on social media I'm like oh no, no, that would ruin it it's that I heard recently oh, the, the average person holds six grudges in their lifetime.
Speaker 2:The person that told me that I was, when they just stopped at six grudges and I was like a day a day.
Speaker 1:Well, madonna's racking up hundreds and hundreds, isn't she?
Speaker 2:gosh, she's got terrible karma, that woman, and yet she hasn't. Because she's, she's, she's great, she's done, she's done so much. You, I, I, you can't be mad at her.
Speaker 1:You can't be mad at her, but don't miss it no, the only people that I am mad at, and I don't know why I'm getting so mad at it and I literally watched a clip last night on some I think it was tiktok. It was gg good talking about her challenge going. I didn't know who madonna was and they had to feed me a wikipedia page and a film to watch before she nailed and won the challenge with madonna. I was like that no, I know, but I suppose it's generational right. Like I would be offended if someone said to me they didn't know who george michael was.
Speaker 1:I would yeah but madonna, how do you not know? You live it under a rock you must believe it.
Speaker 2:That's so strange as well. I can see why the kids would sort of have like a distant relationship because she I'm not right in saying she went away. But I think in the age of tiktok and when everything became a bit more like digitalized and and like short focused, she released madonna, released like kind of like a remix album. She's always been really good good at not staying relevant, because that makes it sound like she has to, but she's always been good at just being relevant and staying on the float of stuff. So I think there might have been a bit of an age gap. Then TikTok came along and then all the kids were like, ah, okay, she's, you know, she's this woman. She's been going for decades and stuff. So I can understand, but it would annoy me, would piss me off slightly.
Speaker 1:I'm like I feel slightly wounded. Why am I taking this person? Yeah she is, she is all store like sorts of things, right, but I'm just like come on, like, come on, come on. So you've, you've found this creative streak in you running around at home and you start growing up. When you went to school, what was your focus? What were you interested in? What did you pursue at that point?
Speaker 2:yeah, because I think school just felt, felt to me like, um, it was the antithesis of what I should be doing. I, you know, you get put in crowded classes, you, you have to start really focusing on things like maths, which I don't enjoy yeah, I think it was just maths that I didn't enjoy. Really, things like business, study, things like it I just I always found that super, super difficult to just sort of just get to grips with and focus on. So there was a period in school when all the creatives just sort of it got sort of like left behind and you have to focus on, okay, where you need a career and you're not gonna the amount of times I've been told you won't have a career in art. Don't put focus on, don't put focus on a creative. You need to do, you need to do business, you need to you know, I don't know learn another language. None of it's ever gonna come to fruition if you have a creative interest in in a future, which has.
Speaker 2:Probably it's why it's taken me so long to, because I was 27 when I started doing drag. I think maybe if I'd, you know, had a better relationship with creativity, I might have started a bit earlier. But hey ho, it's. It's one of those things, yeah, what we what? What were you good at? What were you good at school? Oh?
Speaker 1:do you do? You know this is my podcast. You don't want to ask me questions, right? Oh wait, no, yeah, you're right, it's interesting. I was kind of like into everything quite a lot but my creative street. I was in a steel band and I was obsessed with it, playing music and learning, I love that. And we went on tour like 13. We went to like belgium and it was just wild and performing, um, but never at that point dance. So when people go, oh, you must have always danced. I didn't start dance and go to dance school very late. I started dancing at 16 by accident and then I just was encouraged to go in addition for one of the big schools that I got in. So before that, oh my god, I was obsessed with it. I, I was going to be an it engineer. Look at me now, hey, who would have thought I wouldn't look at you now on a phone? Right, could have been, that's like you know headphones on.
Speaker 2:It's funny. It's funny you mentioned music as well, because that is that's another gateway, I think, because it's so accessible. Like everyone remembers the first album and stuff. I remember, um, because I've got two old sisters. My eldest sister was very big on Mariah Carey. This is early, early to mid 90s, and we had a rabbit called Thumper that was albino and it died. I remember it was on a Friday, I was five years old and, um, my parents, my parents, went on a night out and we got the babysitter over the same night. That I'd experienced death for the first time. And my sis, my eldest sister, she's still got it in her. She's a bit like this. She played always be my baby by maria carer and repeat, because me and my other sister was screaming, crying. We can't listen to this song anymore.
Speaker 1:She's like okay, one last time sisters are the best, but they're also great at tormenting you, right?
Speaker 2:that's, that's what. Oh my god, I learned some of my best techniques from my sister. I know how to really wind people up me too. It's good, isn't it? It's good skills to have. You know how to navigate. Uh, you know, navigate the world with when you've got all the same things absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I know you said you didn't like train to be a performer, but did you go on after school to do any particular study or did you go straight into work?
Speaker 2:as soon as GCSEs were finished, I went, I got back into it and I I did a GCSE in fine art or did they have fine art? I think it was just art. At that point I remember. I remember the work. It was quite shit, but it was, um, it was like it was sketches of stuff, it was illustrations, it was drawing. I wasn't big into painting, it was just kind of like anything that I can hold and sketch out. That was the route that I was going to go down.
Speaker 2:So school went to quite a good arts college and studied and fine art and general art and design, and that's when it really took off. That's when I was like, okay, there's the, there is a whole other world and you can be creative. You might not, you might not find a creator as being an illustrator, which is the things that you get told. But there's other, there's other things to do out there. I also got into film. I studied film studies and I think that's where I, that was where I, you know, I was, uh, 16 years old when I first watched the wicker man the original wicker man and absolutely blew my mind. It's still one of my favorite films to this day, if you're out there listening to this and you haven't watched the wicker man watch it make it one, wake it.
Speaker 2:The one thing that you do say it's an incredible piece of film and studied english literature as well. I wasn't very bookwormy. I've never, really I am now. I'm a nerd, I absolutely am. Now there's books all over the house but I love reading now, but I think it's school. You can't tell kids to read. How am I going to go out on their own and just Some of them do.
Speaker 1:Some of them do, but it's really interesting about you talking about the change from school and college and it's something my own niece. I've been on that journey with them about hated school, couldn't find their tribe. But I'm like, once you go to college you will find your tribe and it's surprising because they want to be there. And now I talk to them and I feel, of course, that in the teenage years and have lots of things going on, but actually they have found their tribe and going well, that's oh, there's a group of 10 of us that really like art and drawing and they're amazing digital art. It blows my mind.
Speaker 1:I don't understand how to do it. I think anyone listening that might be in that school bit getting frustrated with that. It will be over soon. It's a good foundation but you will find the space where you find your community, and I don't mean that in necessarily like personal life, but I mean educational, where you're going to pursue and the teachers generally are outstanding. You know colleges are really great space to find you and others that match your energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always. For me it felt like a really good halfway between leaving school which I just knew that I needed to do and then entering the world of like um, not quite there yet adulthood. It was a really good opportunity to just test things out with little pressure. And that thing you say about community as well. I think as you get older you realize how important that actually is. And it's such a lovely, familiar feeling when you find the people. That might be based on hobbies, it might be based on interest, it might just be based on personality types. So when you meet that group of people you're just like oh, this is what I've been looking for the whole time. That's fucking great.
Speaker 1:From what you've described as your journey. I feel like that takes courage not to follow the path that I want you to do, or take the traditional route, and I just wondered were you really aware yourself, maybe at that point of it was a brave thing to do to just go? I'm going to do this, and and what advice you might have people in the same situation trying to figure out what they need to do to be fulfilled and happy I've never been very careful.
Speaker 2:I I think I've always taken a fair few risks without knowing it. So I went to university and then dropped out because it wasn't to my taste. I went to another university. I dropped out of that and I think at that point my mom was like maybe you should just stop going to university. And you do, you know what. I defied it. I went back a third time. Oh my God, I managed to sort the funding out for it. I had to pay one year myself because they were like we're not giving you any more money. But I was like no, this is the one that I want to do. And I ended up yeah, I ended up with a creative degree, which I enjoy. I still kind of practice now.
Speaker 2:It's got nothing to do with drag, but you can't get a degree in drag. That is a. That's an experienced job. You have to. You have to kind of mostly figure that one out for yourself. But I got to do. I got a degree in interior design, which I love, and I learned that spaces are very important and very sensitive to my surroundings, which you can also apply to the stage as well. There's ways to like, create settings and ambience and feeling so I, I did that.
Speaker 2:My best piece of advice is just don't don't be too careful. You don't have to follow the money for stuff, but don't don't be scared to try new things. In fact, if you're offered an opportunity or there's something there that you're thinking I'm going to have to take a leap of faith and do this one thing, without sounding too cheesy. If everything, if it's, if the cogs are going in your head going no, no, no, no, no, that's when you have to do it. That's god I should just do it, shouldn't I? Because it always pays off. Just always say yes, always say yes, especially if it's a bit like uh, just say yes, say yes to the good, good opportunities, because you don't know, I agree, you don't know where it's going to take you.
Speaker 1:You don't and I kind of weirdly I think this is just experience now, when I'm looking for different jobs and opportunities, everything to me is probably like a bit meh. The one that makes me a little bit nervous is the one I'm going to give everything to try and get. I will kill a bitch, I'll get a blade. It's because I need at least 10% of it to really test me and I think that takes confidence and time. But I agree, I lean into that weird scary thing and it might not deliver what you think. It would be something really different and it adds something else to your life's experience and your skills which will then translate somewhere else you don't realise right.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely that's it. And I even think like on a deeper level, I I'm probably not gonna have my own biological kids of my own, but it's moments like this where you can feel like your dna is changing and you can feel like on a biological level you're like I, chemically I'm, I'm producing something different. Now I might have kids in the future. I'll probably adopt them and they will be the ones that will I'll go. You know, go go, do that thing, go, go, go, take those good things that. Yeah, for me that's how, like, that's how biologically we've got to this one point now for people going. I'm gonna take that risk. I'm gonna have to do that one thing. I'm gonna have to cross this ocean. I'm gonna have to do all you know you have to. You have to make yourself a bit scared.
Speaker 1:You've kind of done that and you've given examples, and so from your moment of rumbling through charity shops and creating these looks to perform on your first moment, I wondered do you remember the feeling you got when you first performed in front of a live audience, however big or small?
Speaker 2:And I wondered audience, however big or small, and I wondered if you could describe it. It was a bar full of people. It was in um, it was in a queer drag bar in camden and I remember feeling absolutely numb. There was no amount of preparation that could have put you in good steve for what was about to happen. And I also remember coming off the stage after I'd performed glory box by portishead and I did a reveal. I did the whole drag thing. I was this like demure, scary, sexy, like scarlet lady, and then I came off and I could not if, if people hadn't filmed it, I wouldn't have remembered that I'd just been on stage.
Speaker 2:I did not know what was happening. I was so out of my head. It was like it was. It was an out-of-body experience. But that thrill made me go back the next week and keep going back and keep going back. If only I'd known about propanolol. And actually I don't think. I think we're talking about chemistry and you kind of like your genetic make up. It's the adrenaline that kept me going. Yeah, because I take anti-anxiety medication. Now I don't care about a lot, you're totally chilled.
Speaker 2:It takes a lot to get me riled up these days, which?
Speaker 1:it's a good thing. Now. I've seen you change. I've seen you change in like three, four years. No, I have, I genuinely haven't. Oh. I've seen you change in the last like three, four years. No, I have, I genuinely haven't. Aw, I haven't. I feel like you're more confident in your skin, you're opening your mind to all these amazing opportunities. You know, and that's why I said before we started recording, I really wanted to do this, because I feel like you're a new version and I'm not saying a better version, just a different version which and I'm not saying a better version, just a different version which is really nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you give a good energy and you're comfortable and happy, and that's really important. We will talk about some of the rough stuff that you've been through, but it's a really nice moment to be in go. This is the right time to have this conversation. Maybe it wouldn't have been right in the first season, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, yeah no, yeah, I ask this a lot to my friends and acquaintances that have two different personalities or personas they work with. So the first question is is how integrated is Pip and Sister? Sister Is the first question, or are they completely separate things?
Speaker 2:know that I was playing a character until I was having a conversation with another queen and they spelt out that they themselves play a character when they're in drag and I'd never seen the difference. I won't name them, I would never have known the difference between this person and the drag character unless they had a wig on. But it really got me thinking. I was like okay, well, what do you? This? This was years ago, as well as quite early on in my in my drag career, and it did get me thinking what, what, what attributes do I bring to the table when I'm out of drag and and when I've got that wig on as well? And I think the most obvious one is you have this. It's a boost of confidence. And I think it's physically you take up more space because you just are bigger. And I understand why RuPaul says everyone should do drag, because it's a real confidence booster. It's a transcendent experience, because people respond to you differently. I think that's why, if you're going off their energy, that they're going off on yours, you start to raise each other's bar and the next thing you've become this I've become sister, sister. It can be quite subtle some days, and then others it's like no, no, it's gonna be big. The talent is no different. It's then others it's like no, I, no, it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna be big. The talent is no difference, it's just, it's a mindset. I can do everything that I can do in and out of drag when I'm in or out of drag.
Speaker 2:But I will say I gave a um, I gave a talk at loughborough university a couple of months back out of drag. It was just an artist talk, you know, to discuss what like my work and what I've done and what's brought me to this point now. And I was in the lecture theater and I was so nervous. I was just stood there like this with my little nerdy glasses. I'm like hello, everyone. I was so nervous I had to tell the room at large. I was like I'm really sorry, I'm quite nervous to be here. It was so it was. I thought it was so silly, but I think it's because I didn't have. I didn't have. I'm used to just, you know, having an audience when I'm in, I'm full regalia and I wasn't right.
Speaker 1:I found it quite interesting no, it is, it is and it so it shows there is some separation there, even though it's a whole. Yeah, so kind of connected though, which is it's going to sound similar, and you've spoken about the skills and bits that you share between you and the character. I wondered what, maybe mentally and emotionally, sister sister gives Pip when you're being paired and then Pip gives sister sister.
Speaker 2:It does. It feels really great to be in drag and it's for all those reasons that I said, you know, it feels good to be confident. Yeah, you get a real kick out of that. You, it feels good to be, you know, successful, which is the thing that I've done in drag to to have the career. So, and don't get me wrong, I'm always so excited to get out of drag as well. I've got a limit. You're like, I'm like, oh, this is these lashes, these nails are just doing my head in, but that is a really. That is, yeah, it's a really good point.
Speaker 2:I think when you've been doing it for I've been doing it for seven years now it very easily it's just sort of like a mismatch. So you, you, you know you can leave the stage and just sort of take the whole thing off. It's kind of the reason why I wanted to um, catalog the arts wipes that I do. Yeah, as well, it's about this, it's, it's, it's a preservation, it's a physical, lasting thing that you can take off. That, for me, has all that makeup that you've spent two, three hours doing, has absorbed the sweat and it's absorbed the laughter and it's absorbed, um, your reactions to the audience is this? It's like like cross back and forth between what's just happened and the with you and the audience and the performance, and then you kind of imprint it, take it off, laminate it and it's trapped in time. Then it's like a capsule, it's, it's there, yeah, it's like it's. It's like a visual diary almost no, it's brilliant.
Speaker 1:It's brilliant. If people wonder what we're talking about, go and um, I'll make sure in the transcript I'll link to the socials. But go and check out the shop, to go and have a little look at what we're talking about they are I love the description, they're a capsule like the moment in time which you're never going to get, because you'll never apply the makeup ever again. The same way you don't get the same audience or feel the same. That's so. It's quite.
Speaker 2:I think it's a really beautiful way to capture it yeah, yeah, each one's, yeah, each one's unique, and I, I think I sell for a very good price as well discount might be available.
Speaker 1:Use the promo code um. And talking about makeup and your look, I wondered what your journey has been like about the evolution of your aesthetic and growing into them, because you your outfits are bonkers but they are executed so well and your look is like snatched and you haven't been doing drag that long seven years is not that long and you've made quite a rapid journey into and I think part of it is because your experience of working on tv and in theatre. You get all of that and I just wondered how has that felt for you going on that journey? Does it feel natural, forced, panicked?
Speaker 2:all the above. All of it was. It was a quick education as well, because I I'd only been doing it for two years when I got the offer to go on Drag Race, so I didn't have like designers or anything. I had all these ideas for looks that I wanted, but I wasn't. I wasn't well connected and, you know, didn't have a lot of money at the time as well. So you kind of have to.
Speaker 2:There's a bit that kicks in creativity. It's like an instinct when you know you go over your budget and you go over all these things that you've not got and you think, right, well, I'm gonna have to make something work instead of that. So you put the, you put these looks together and I think that's. That's kind of like. I've never spent incredible amounts of of money on drag stuff. I've always ended up like befriending the designers and we've collaborated. So I took on like half the cast or something. There's always been a different way. Rather than going, there's 10 grand and that's for one look and it's going to be this promo thing I've just now. That's that's not me.
Speaker 2:I'm a charity shop but turned out, turned out yeah, but there's, you know there's, there's ways to do it. I've always I've always had an interest in a vintage aesthetic, so I think seven, 60s, 70s and 80s as well. I've always there's those three decades, I've always had an interest in vintage aesthetics, so 60s, 70s and 80s as well. I've always those three decades I've always had an interest in. I am quite flexible in the bits that I can pick and you can, you know, kind of like puzzle all these pieces together. I did grow up again it was before my time, but I've got older sisters watching Gem and the Holograms. Do you remember Gem and the the holograms?
Speaker 1:do you remember? Gem in the holograms.
Speaker 2:I was explaining it to someone, I think only last night, and I was like, okay, so it's this, um, it's this woman. She works for a record label, her name's jerica, she has a band and her boyfriend, she's got a boyfriend and she has magic earrings. And then when she presses it, and about 10 minutes later and I was like, and she also runs an orphanage, and you're like what the hell? What is this? Be the dream of a cartoon, but it's real. Listeners, if you don't know Gem of the Holograms, every episode is on YouTube. Just go and watch it, because it's absolutely stunning.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting how you've created the persona of sister sister, and actually I think it's. It has to be acknowledged. And one of the things that I really, really, really love about all the queens that I've met in liverpool is that, yes, you get your look, queens, but even they have got their own twist to it and it would be really easy basically to look beat to death snatched waist, gorgeous dresses that would fit in with the rest of the aesthetic, but actually you've really carved out this look for yourself, stuck to it. Don't let that tv pressure change you and start wearing floor-length wigs and you know, armani dresses, yeah, and that that's not very easy to do when social media is telling you snatch it, paint it, photoshop it. It's great, it's a really nice thing yeah, you're absolutely right, I think.
Speaker 2:I think it would be easy to want to start drag now. It's because it's so. It's such a saturated kind of market, it's such a saturated visual job that you can do so. It would be so easy to just look at things and go. I'm so overwhelmed by oh, you know, all these instagram queens and stuff. The one thing that always stands out is when you've got this very unique thing and it can just be a tweak, but it's kind of like it's down to styling, it's down to just something.
Speaker 2:For me, I was always quite well, I was quite lucky. But also I just went for a big blue circle on the face and I that was the very first time I painted makeup and I was like that is. That was a gem in the holograms reference as well. What I really liked about gem in the holograms was they had this big, obnoxious face makeup that none of the other characters ever talked about. They, you know, they'd meet someone in the street and just go, gem, I love you. And gem had a big lightning bolt across her face. No one was like babe, are you all right? You're having a breakdown? Hey, did you forget your meds this morning? Like are you? Well, no one referenced it and I kind of loved this um, obvious, it was like a subtle obviousness and I just thought that was beautiful.
Speaker 2:Mine was always like in, it was a hint to like a spotlight. It was this light that's kind of shining on your face and it, you know, it highlighted red lips. It was a contrast because I thought I was a very gobby queen back then, as they all do. They're like yeah, I mean, you're actually quite polite, you don't have to be like that. But then it just stuck and then that's how you get noticed. And then for a little bit I was was, oh, it's that queen with the big blue. Second, I was in uh masquerade the other night and someone introduced me to a friend and they were like, yeah, this is uh pips, a drag queen. And then I told them where, where they'd know me from off the telly and he went, oh, blue circle. But it is yeah, yeah, that's it, that's fine, that's fine with me.
Speaker 1:It's a gorgeous symbol and I'd like to be remembered for that it's a really good connector actually about creating a personal brand, which is really important and you've stuck to it and it kind of links back to it. Would have been so easy for you to remove and lose that and start getting contoured the hell up and in a whole different way. But actually there's other reasons why you're memorable because you're on the very one of the very first. But actually people go the circle. It is a thing and that's really brave. To stick with that. When could have been so easy.
Speaker 1:If you just be like, okay, right, I'm gonna go and get someone else to do a makeup, change the identity, to try and evolve and get more work and be less wacky, but it is, it's iconic for me in my world when I do market, like that's what I'm looking for because, yeah, that's salable, that's memorable and the reality is there are that and I love it. I'm a huge fan. Obviously there are so many queens, but most of them I couldn't tell you their name. There's a handful that I'm like they've got a unique identity. They've got a unique identity and I mean that in terms of makeup, the fashion, but their personality. So, holding on to that circle see, entrepreneur there, entrepreneur, that's mine that's my blue circle.
Speaker 2:I'm keeping it. It's mine trademarked trademarked.
Speaker 1:I know this is probably gonna be really difficult, but what is one thing about drag race that people don't know?
Speaker 2:I don't think they know how long it's a. It's a completely different world what you watch versus how, how it, how it was made. Yeah, I don't think people know how long it actually takes to make an episode. I remember filming for 12 hours one day. That was just that was just filming, so the cameras were around for the 12 hours that day. We'd have to get up earlier than that and get ready and I think by the end of the night it was still midnight and we were still learning like routine it was. It must have been longer than 12 hours. We were still learning routine and it was for rats, the rusical, and that was only the second episode.
Speaker 2:So each episode is filmed across two days, which I think if you, if you watch, if you're a little bit media trained, you can sort of like see that point. And I remember that because I remember the fee that we got for the. It was fee per per episode and we were like, oh great, because we're there for four weeks, so it's gonna, we're gonna rack up all this money just being paid. No, no, split that in half how they know what they're doing. Yeah, so one episode is filmed across two days and the working days are very, very, very long.
Speaker 2:You know the bit in the window of the workroom and we're all sat around the table and then the alarm goes off. That alarm, that's a real alarm. They don't add it, that alarm actually does go off. And then, as soon as that goes off, we all go oh, and then they cut, they cut the cameras. They cut the cameras, which is there's loads, actually just like five, six, seven cameras just in the room at one point, and then you all have to relocate. If you look on the floor where we're all stood I don't know whether they still have it with us there were little markers where you could stand Because it's all very it's actually quite regimented.
Speaker 2:They've got it down to like a fine art. They have to. It's proper production, it's proper production. And then, okay, hit the cameras again. And then we're just sort of like, if they want to build suspense, we're all sort of just like, ooh, wonder what happens now. And then RuPaul comes in. He doesn't really say hi, he just sort of goes hello and then he goes on his marker. At this point already it's taken about 10 minutes since that siren went off and he hasn't even done anything yet. And then the next bit is he'll give his lines, he'll do pickups. We need more reactions, this whole thing. So just that one bit where he enters the workroom can take like 20 minutes, half an hour.
Speaker 1:It's insane, isn't it?
Speaker 2:people don't, yeah, people don't get that and then you watch the actual once it's all edited and it's all together. It's probably like, uh, two minutes long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two minutes tops hard work, it's not a breeze and a lot of you know the guests either on this podcast that work in tv talk about this or the the drag artist going. You just don't understand how much it is to get one episode, days and days, you know, and I suppose that's. I think that's a really good answer actually, instead of the obvious where people normally say to me well, it's the way they edit, it's just whatever. But like that commitment to being in drag, looking be in snatch or being out of drag for that long and performing, being switched on is really you don't do that in west end no, no, true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, true, it is it it's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot mentally, and it always makes me feel so bad. For you know the queens who you can tell that they're having a bad day, or you can tell that they're just like overstimulated. And then next thing you're in and untucked and and you're being gaslit by some bitch that's been your mate the whole time. You're like, oh my god, what's going on? So then you pop up and it makes great tv. And then you just know all the fans are gonna be like she said the f? Slur, like she's horrible, cancel her, cancel her. And she just goes on and on. It's like, oh god, you are getting really good tv. You're getting such good tv for all this trauma and stress that this one person's you know providing for him. She's going to get bullied off the internet.
Speaker 1:It's so bizarre, isn't it? It's so bizarre. I'm sure you're asked this all the time, but I'm still going to ask it because my listeners may not have heard it. But would you consider doing another drag race franchise of some form?
Speaker 2:No, yeah, yeah, I would, money, money, masochism. I would, I would do it, I think, yeah, I think enough time has passed between the last one that I did and also to go.
Speaker 2:God, I could have done that so differently, but we were quite lucky as well last season, because obviously we went into lockdown and we had to quit filming and there was a seventh month gap between filming the first two weeks and then the last two weeks to wrap it up that we had. We were in lockdown, but it felt like seven months is enough time to, you know, not repair, but kind of like redesign some of your outfits and go hold on a minute. What can I do differently? So by the time we all went back, it looked like you'd had an all-stars glow. Yeah, yeah, the original, the original cast. So we got and it felt like it as well. When we walked back in it was like, oh my god, this everything feels shiny and new again.
Speaker 1:It feels like we're just on all-stars I could be wrong and I'm not trying to be offensive. When you walk back in the waiting room did someone reference your teeth? But when you, yeah, yeah, yeah so it wasn't.
Speaker 2:I've never addressed this like but like formally online either. I just sort of let people just chat with. So the teeth, the teeth that I went back in were from uh, they were flippers, so they were the plastic kind of. I just call them my tv teeth. They were like the ones that you just you clip in and they go on top of your your other natural teeth. Since then I've gone and had work done at a um a dentist overseas your teeth are beautiful, they are good, they are.
Speaker 1:I know that's going to be the thumbnail. You've just done that. You know that because I do use the video.
Speaker 2:Gorgeous teeth they are, and so, best decision I ever made, wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It's a very painful process. I'm just impatient. I could have got you know braces and whitening done and had them like built up.
Speaker 1:I was like just follow you are quite an extreme person, right all or nothing kind of I it's, I'm, I'm very impulsive, I do, I make decisions on a whim, I do another subject that I wanted to kind of touch on is you've been very open about the backlash and the online hate that came after the show, which is horrific, and I can't believe we're in the world where we people are doing this and we still got keyboard warriors and all that kind of stuff. But you have openly spoken about it and how it's impacted you and others which genuinely feel like you were one of the first people to acknowledge the aftermath of what that is. I just wondered, now you look back on it, how do you feel about it? Do you feel like anything's changed um, and you, speaking about it? You I'm sure you feel about it. Do you feel like anything's changed um, and you, speaking about it, you I'm sure you feel like it's worth it. I know other people relate to what you said yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, when it was happening, there was lots of factors involved. We, like I'd I just quit my job, my actual paid income, like office job, so I was a bit nervous about the way that the country was um going because we were still in lockdown. We still uh, you know, we weren't allowed to just say something bad happens. You get a horrible negative comment online just like all right, I'm just gonna go see my mom and she'll make me feel better about that. We didn't have that. That was luxury.
Speaker 2:Back then I felt like everything that we were doing at that time we had a lot of views. We had a lot of viewers on our season. It's it's still ranked as like one of the most watched seasons of the franchise worldwide. So there was a lot of eyes on us and I think what people were doing was we were, we were just communicating differently. So it was like the things that you thought that you could say to people out loud were now just coming out in comment sections and everything was just under a microscope. So something that you could say as a flippant comment the girls on my season were just having. It was just like people in drones just got hold on a minute. So there was something culturally going on with the way that people were communicating online.
Speaker 2:I was quite unlucky. My mum had a stroke while the season was airing as well. She's fine, she's. She's fully recovered now. But that was a big stressful moment for me. And there was one episode a few weeks later when I had an argument with a horror. People did not like that. People take it very, very seriously. And then, yeah, just one thing led to another and I think there was a final straw at one point and I was like, do you know what? I, because I'm in group chats with the queens as well, and at the time we were all having, we were laughing, we were kicking, we were all having a great time. It's like we know what we did, we know what happened. People can't be so wrapped up in this, in in themselves and in this one tv show that they're thinking. She said that to her and because I've just seen it on my screen, I need to go and tell her to kill herself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so, it's so, so alien, it's so, so strange to me. So I just thought I mean I was having a horrible time. I had to. I jumped in a taxi and went to my mum's house to socially distance there instead, and I was like I just can't do this anymore. I'm just in my house and it feels horrible. So while I was there, I managed to find a contact at the Guardian and I was like I just want to talk, I just want to. I want people to just read and the I put an article out and it was.
Speaker 2:It was widely circulated, which felt great, but it just started off as, like, it's 8am, I've just woken up, I'm gonna have a coffee, and it was so mundane. It was just like I. We are real people. We wake up in the morning, we have a coffee and then we check our phones and it's all there. Yeah, and what you're seeing is a reaction to some entertainment tv show. It's tv, it's entertainment. Are you having a good time watching it? Yeah, you obviously are, because you're getting all riled up and it's like doing these things. But you can't be taking it out. You can't be taking it out on people. I was. I was shocked. There were people who lived close by to me. I'd know because I'd seen them on various gay apps at the time we're not.
Speaker 1:Many are available.
Speaker 2:Available in the app store there's one you might have heard of. It's a big g, big grinder, oh yeah, big orange one who, um, these people who were living we're talking like the local neighbors were giving me shit on the internet, and then all the mates were chiming in as well, like on on instagram and stuff, and it's like, when the doors reopened, we're allowed to reintegrate again. We're just going to walk past each other on the street, are you? Are you going to be saying all this stuff? The way that we communicate is different during lockdown and the way that it's it has changed. I just think it's. It was worth noting and sort of like you know, showing people in the face, the way that this isn't normal. This is. This is very, very odd, but there's a reason that we're all doing it and someone's having a a horrible time because of this. At the time, it was me. In future, it's going to be other people, because I don't think you can. We will never not have internet trolls.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a weird psychology. They will always exist, but I will say I've never seen an attractive one. I sleep at night knowing that Never seen an attractive troll say, always finding the humor in things.
Speaker 1:See, I told you I just giggle all the time. I have to edit this. Thanks for sharing that. It's an important thing to talk about. I don't, and unfortunately it's still happening. People just stop commenting on people's lives. You don't know them and it's a bloody tv show.
Speaker 2:Calm down, it's not reality, it's, it's not. It's not real life, but again, it's just. It's another form of communication that people will, yeah, they'll just always have it. It's odd, I I will say there's the generation below us, or there's another culture shift in people who are getting, like these burner phones and they're leaving their smartphones and their iPhones at home. People are kind of moving away from having these distractions because, ultimately, what you need to do, if you're feeling like you need to, you know, tell someone to off themselves on the internet, there is a real problem. You should probably put your phone down, go and take your shoes off and stand on a grass veg. You need to reconnect with nature. Yeah, it's like just just recalibrate, leave the phone at home and go and do something. That's that's not this, you know, and the.
Speaker 1:I think people are really leaning into that more and more absolutely, and we, we all, need to detox away from this crazy stuff. What's next for Pip and what's next for Sister, sister?
Speaker 2:I'd love to say that I knew, but I never have and I probably never will.
Speaker 2:You're like whatever happens, I don't know, I'll probably come up with something new. So I've been. I'm jack of all trades, jack off of all trades. I like to see, I have an idea and then I'll go hold on a minute, I can do that. So I've recently trained as a massage therapist. Ding, ding, it fits in, hello, it fits in with my, like, my you know my interest in well-being and stuff which kind of came off the back of you know, lockdown and things like that. So it came from also me just like giving friends little massages and then just kind of like leaning into it. Oh, my god, you should try that. Mostly I just love setting up another little business. I love doing all that. So that's my new baby at the minute. Uh, it's called rub hub, based in liverpool. If anyone wants a massage, please let me up rub hub. There's also there's a company that's like I'm uh, specializing in marinade sauces. That's not me it could work.
Speaker 2:It could be a great collaboration hey, I am not here to keep sharing anyone. I am bring back king shaman. I'm selling. Uh, my, my artwork is still, uh, it's being produced. I upload stuff onto the website weekly. I've got an exhibition at elevator studios in liverpool on the 10th of june I believe, and it's my producer the 10th of june.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, so keep an eye out for that as well. It's just, it's kind of it's everything that I've been working on over the last couple of years and what else. God, that is it. I've got some.
Speaker 1:I've got some shows coming up as well. Well, yeah, so you are doing stuff, but also, let's go back to what you said before is, do some of that weird stuff and say yes to things, and that's what you want so next week. God knows where you'll be, love, I'll see you somewhere in full regalia mincing down the street.
Speaker 2:That's it. That's it. Say yes to mincing.
Speaker 1:Right, amen. There's two things that I normally make available to my lovely guests. One is are there any myths, misconceptions?
Speaker 2:or pet peeves that you want to clear up right here right now. Oh my God, how shady can we be. Do you want to hear a story? Okay, so when we were filming this doesn't get talked about enough when we were filming Drag Race, there was a scene with me and the whore in Untucked where we'd both worn the day at the beach and we'd both worn our beach outfits. It was after lockdown and I came off the stage. I was stressed, I was overworked and underpaid and I sat down. Someone, a taste, turned to me and she said why have you copied a horror's outfit? And then I thought shit, I've been set up by production because no one's said a word yet. So during lockdown, there were some of the queens that I spoke to more than others. That just happened. That's happens. That's the life.
Speaker 2:I didn't speak to a whore the entire time. I was in contact with Ellie Diamond, who was in contact with a whore quite a lot. So Ellie knew the outfits that I'd had remade completely from scratch and I'd always had an idea for Day at the Beach. If I had money which I didn't at the time, but during lockdown I did to make a seagull eating chips. Now Ellie sat there for seven months listening to me saying, yeah, I'm getting this one redone. And at one point it was about two weeks before we left to film and it was hanging up behind me and she was like which one's that? And I said it's my new day at the beach, it's the seagull and the chips and stuff.
Speaker 1:And she just said you do know you're doing the same as a whore hung up. She kept it quiet. Oh shady bitch, seven fucking months. Do you know what my, my normal, I normally like? My last question is normally make a cultural confession.
Speaker 2:That is a bloody good confession oh, you, you can have that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can have that that is shady that caught that. I remember that caused loads of shit as well oh, it did it was.
Speaker 2:It was a big part of the. Yeah, it was a big part of like my, mine and mine and a horror storyline, yeah, and you got fucking slammed for it. She just never confessed to it either. Just, it's sort of like, yeah, she, just she just kind of got away with it exclusive look at me getting exclusive scoops I know, I know and I will say that is the exact, that's exactly who Ellie Diamond is.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I'm going to start getting cancelled, aren't I for aiding and abetting?
Speaker 2:I've actually blocked her. I did block Ellie. She was doing my editing. I don't know what she's up to these days. I hope she's alright. I'll miss her. I'm going to unblock her.
Speaker 1:So that was actually a really good confession. But the final, final thing is if there's any other confessions you would like to make, you're more than welcome to make one now, whether that's something that's a secret, a guilty pleasure or an unexpected thing that people don't know about you oh my god, without getting yourself into trouble I know right, okay, when, when, uh, when the tall money started coming in, I treated myself.
Speaker 2:I don't treat myself a lot, but I do buy nice shoes every now and then you do have a good footwear collection.
Speaker 2:Indeed, I do. They're all quite ugly, but I think that's my thing. I bought a pair of uh tabbies. I bought a pair of tabby boots and misplaced them for years. It turns out they were in my mom's loft. I've been accusing everyone. I I would have accused you if I've stayed long enough. Oh yeah, I'd be like where's my dad? You've definitely stolen my tabby boots. My mum's moving house at the end of um this month. She was like you need to come and get all your crap from the loft. I went in. They're in a bin bag oh my god the entire time I think.
Speaker 2:I mean I've fallen out with people over these tabby boots someone's, someone's stolen my taffy boots. My mum's lost the whole time, but you know who put them there? It was me. I'm horrible.
Speaker 1:It was you, and whilst that's also a confession for those that he's been accusing, I do feel like that's the best apology you're going to get.
Speaker 2:I'm very sorry. I am very sorry to everyone I've accused, including my mum including my mama.
Speaker 1:Sorry, sorry, sorry, sue, pip, okay, sister, sister, thank you so much for doing this. It's been brilliant having a conversation we could talk for hours.
Speaker 2:But thank you so much, thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful a pleasure. You're not even been that shady, I'm surprised no, I would hey, here's a secret, here's a secret. I'm sweetheart, I'm the nation's sweetheart tv just low-key, low-key low-key.
Speaker 1:Thank you, my love bye thanks for listening to this episode of before the applause. Please do tell everyone about this podcast and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms by searching at before applause. If you've got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, want to recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we'd love to hear from you. You can direct message us on any of our social accounts.
