Let the Savior Do the Rest: A Conversation with Tiffany Porter - Episode 31

Tiffany Porter talks about her experience as a parent of a transgender child and the impact that has had on her family and herself. She was able to move from feeling "bereft" and "cheated" to grateful and full of love.

The 3 practices are:
I’ll be unusually interested in others
I’ll stay in the room with difference and
I’ll stop comparing my best to your worst.

Doctrine & Covenants 123:17
"let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed."

You found me! If what you heard on the No Empty Chairs podcast gives you hope for more help, please schedule a free Conversation with Candice. You can also visit candiceclarkcoaching.com for more information about how coaching tools can help you keep your relationship with your children and your faith. While you're there, be sure to pull up a chair and sign up with your email to be the first to know about news and events for moms whose kids don't come to church.

It's going to be okay, and even better!

Transcript

  Hello, my friends! I just wanted to hop on before we get to today’s interview with my friend Tiffany and encourage you to take to heart those three practices I keep mentioning. The 3 practices are

I’ll be unusually interested in others
I’ll stay in the room with difference and
I’ll stop comparing my best to your worst.

The reason I bring this up today is that in the interview Tiffany talks about her experience as a parent of a transgender child. I know this can be a sensitive issue that parents choose to navigate in all kinds of ways. Tiffany generously shares how she has navigated it. There will be people who think Tiffany changed too much because of her child, and others who don’t think she changed enough. 

I encourage you to be interested in Tiffany and how she came to make the choices she did. You might also notice the times she decided to be unusually interested in her children and stay in the metaphorical room with them as they made choices that were not what she had planned. 

And I think we all do well to remember that people come by their views through honest experience. When we stop comparing our best to someone else’s worst, and vice versa, we do a better job of staying in relationship, even when there are differences of belief, feeling, and practice.

Thank you for doing the work of holding space for someone to share their heart. On to the interview.

CANDICE
Hello everyone. I'm so glad you're here with me today. I am delighted to bring you a special guest, my friend Tiffany Porter.  Tiffany and I met as I've met so many people that I've had on the podcast in three practice circle training  to become referees for three practices. And  was such a wonderful experience of getting to know people who are trying to make room for difference and build relationships with people and. build bridges.  So I'm really excited that she's agreed to come and join us today and talk a little bit about some of her experiences as a parent. when I met her, she was serving as a relief society president in her ward in Washington state. And now she lives in California and I hear she has a new calling, but maybe you'll tell us a little bit about that.

Welcome Tiffany. 

TIFFANY
Thank you. Yes,  this will be fun. I'm excited.   I live now,  we moved from Seattle area and we moved down to inner city Los Angeles. So, it is a entirely different situation and  we're empty nesters, and it's actually been a lot of fun.  We're finding so many great things to do and getting used to all the. 

Learning to tolerate some of the hard things about Los Angeles, but learning to love so so many things especially the people 

CANDICE
That's wonderful. They're lucky to have you there. And it sounds like you feel a little bit lucky to be there too.

TIFFANY
For sure for sure. I just was called the seminary teacher. So I'll be doing this 6 a. m thing  I thought I was done with that after four children, but  It will be a lot of fun

CANDICE
this happens sometimes in the church. I've noticed my friend and I had  actually scheduled a dinner that we were going to go out to dinner the night of the Pinewood Derby to celebrate the fact that we were not at the Pinewood Derby because our children had graduated from Cub Scouts, , and, um, Uh, I got called as a bear den leader.

So  I said that to the Bishop when he extended the calling and he's like, it's okay, you don't have to go. You can go out to dinner with Christie. And I'm like, you know, I'm going to go to the Pinewood Derby. If my Cub Scouts are there, I'm going to be there with them.  But.

TIFFANY
I won't even, a whole nother podcast would be my feelings about the Pinewood Derby, but it's over now. So I'm glad. 

CANDICE
Yeah. Well, we, we probably have a lot in common there. Um,  well, tell us, tell us a little more about your story. What would you like us to know about you, Tiffany? Yeah.

TIFFANY
now, I'm a mom of four kids,  I was raised in the church. I,  grew up in Eastern Washington State. And, from the time I was little, I lived and I loved the gospel. It was super easy for me. I honestly believed that anybody who accepted the gospel would have the same experience, like they would have a wonderful experience like I was. 

And so much so that once I was deciding where to go to college, I chose BYU over some other kind of intriguing options in the East coast. Cause I just really wanted to be around, you know, all the people.  Living the gospel and thinking the same thing. So I went to BYU and majored in psychology.

I met my husband there and we married, right about the time I graduated.  We've lived kind of all over. We moved to Arizona. After that, we've also lived in Utah, we lived in Portland, Oregon area, up in Seattle, and now in Los Angeles.  And my husband was really on the same page as me as far as, I think he would say that he felt the same about the church.

He was raised in the church,  we were both very all in. We Raised our kids with lots of spiritual opportunities. And I remember I was a state primary president once, and I had to give this talk on how  to raise your kids  to, um,  I don't remember the exact prompt, but something like how to keep your kids. 

You know, how to keep your kids strong in the gospel.  Ironic. Um, and,

CANDICE
Oh, I, I could have totally told you how to do that.

TIFFANY
Oh, yeah, I knew. I totally knew. And so I gave this whole talk on how to be a fan of the gospel. And, You know, I didn't say in the talk, well, we're doing all this stuff, but it was true. We were doing all those things. We were big fans of the gospel.  Our kids went to bed at night, listening to John, by the way, talks, and we listened to the music and we just loved, loved all of it.

 And it was sweet.  There were lots of good things during those years.  Are kids, even those who have left the church would say that  they felt very safe and loved, and there were lots of good things.  They weren't necessarily having the same experience that I had had, which I learned later.

Mm hmm.

CANDICE
finding occasions to remember, oh, not everyone is having these same experience here. 

TIFFANY
For sure. For sure. And there were plenty of bumps in raising. Each of our kids has some unusual,  challenges, whether, physical challenges or mental health. And so, I mean, there were lots of hard things over the years.  But I honestly felt like spiritually, we hadn't figured out like  that  we did what we could, you know, all the therapies and all the things that we need to do to help our kids be successful.

 And I don't regret any of those.  We did exactly what I would do again in that same circumstance, including raising them in the gospel. I just wish I would have known a few things. I know. Now, I, I might have, taught a few things differently, but, then.  So oldest child., graduated, went to BYU, then went on a mission, a really tough mission to Ukraine. 

Came home, first day back to BYU, met a wonderful person who,  they married a year later. And,  a couple years after that, child number two graduated, went to BYU, eventually met husband, child number three, graduated, got accepted to BYU.  We dropped her off and we came back and I had one kid left at home.

We were getting ready  to move to Seattle right at that same time. And I was like, okay, things are really going to. Be calm now, you know, now,   and the very next week we got a call from our oldest child who was living in a different state and  this child bravely shared with us,  their lived reality of being born. 

Ostensibly male or often,  referred to as assigned male at birth, but knowing this child, knowing that she is transgender   this child had always been the most sweet, sensitive, loving. Obedient child ever had known from the time she was about three, that there was something not quite right, but growing up in the nineties and then the early two thousands, she didn't have a name for what she was experiencing.

 That would be so different now. There's just so much better understanding. Luckily that  we understand differences in gender. But she didn't know. She just knew there was something wrong. She's described it in different ways, such as. Like she had a constant kind of a buzzing in her head, a feeling like something was not matching.

What was inside of her did not match what was on the outside. Her body didn't fit her brain,  but just really thought that,  um,  internalized a lot of shame  and this would be a perfect example of how, she was not having the same experience I was in the church because, My body and brain did match, and I fit in really well with the gender situation in the church, and this was different. 

 She didn't know what was very schooled in the gospel, I mean, knew it all, and didn't understand how this could be the case for her, given what was taught at church about gender.  That there must just be something that she was doing wrong, so she doubled down on being more obedient, and, Leaving the temptation that God would take away if she was good enough.

 And that persisted all the way through, past marriage  so by the time we got the call, she had come out,  some time ago to her wonderful spouse and they had navigated this for a while before deciding that it was important that she start treatments that would bring her body and brain more in alignment  and that she needed to be honest with family members and friends now that she was ready to explain her situation and give her reality.  So that brings us back to the July day, six years ago. And in the same phone call, they let us know that they were both leaving the church.  While we didn't do everything right  that day or in the coming months or years, I'm really glad that our first reaction was to express love. 

 Yeah, there's a lot of things we didn't do right, but we definitely led with love, and I'm so grateful about that. Just focusing for a second back on my own experience with it,  after Brie came out, we were actually, packing up to move, and, I had one child left at home.  And I remember painting the house, prior to listing it, just sobbing the whole time.

Just like, what happened to  Just trying to take it all in. Just trying to understand everything. I did a pretty good job of, well, I have to ask this child. My youngest child, I have to ask someday. What he thought of how I did, but I tried to still be a calm and a reasonably happy person, for this child left at home, but I was really reeling, for a while

CANDICE
yeah. I just am curious, what was it about it that  you reeling? 

TIFFANY
um, well, several things. I mean, there was,  aspect certainly was. Wrapping my brain around what it means to be transgender, because this was new to me as well. When I started to wonder if there was something going on, our understanding had just come so far in the last while.

CANDICE
Yeah.

TIFFANY
Yeah, so I was doing lots of learning, but just trying to change my whole  understanding of who this child was, but also understanding that she was the same person. And  some books I've read talk about it as ambiguous grief, that, this child was still there and was still just as wonderful in every way. But my understanding of who she was, was altered.

And so  all the things that go with that, one of the things I remember grappling with a lot was that, With  my children,  leaving the church, I felt like I had a lot of grief about the future not looking like I expected.  But with  my child, knowing that my child was transgender, I felt in some ways like I lost the past as well  my whole heart had been in raising my family.

I loved family pictures. I mean, I actually had a board where I would switch it out every month of,  Pictures that went with that month, somebody's birthday month, or this is Easter from all the different years.  And just as an example of like, that was such a big deal to me. And now  I could see in all these pictures from the past, the pain that my child was dealing with.

And it was really painful for me, really painful. I mean, it's kind of lucky that I was moving because I, I packed away. I actually gave away all my frames. But I packed away all the photos, packed away the scrapbooks, and,  I did a lot of work on healing  and trying to grapple with what, 

CANDICE
Can you say a little more about what was painful for you about this recognition,  about maybe how your child saw that differently than you did? 

TIFFANY
yeah, mm hmm, mm hmm,

So many things, one,  Would be, that there was kind of a look that Brie always had that, she's just such a sweet, sensitive person and kind of a look that I would almost call a deer in the headlights look. And that just was the way she always looked in photos. And  we just knew that that was just the way she looked.

And now when I look at those photos, I can see in her eyes the pain. And it just, as someone who was so close to my kids and really valued being in tune to them emotionally, that was almost, it felt unsurvivable to realize that my child was in that much pain and I didn't know so that was really hard.

I also knew, based on some conversations with Brie, that it would be painful to have a lot of, at least at that point in her journey to have a lot of, reminders of growing up looking like a little boy.  And so I felt like I needed to close the door on all of it, and that was so sad for me because this was, you know, raising my kids, something that I had put my life into and I valued it so much and I feel a little differently now. That was a stage I was in and I had to go through different stages and I had some great therapy and some wonderful help from heavenly parents in navigating this, but  it took a while before I could sit and open up scrapbooks and go through again.

And now I can that now I can look and see that we were all doing the very best that we could and we are providing a loving home for our children  and they have been so gracious  in understanding  that we were operating on the knowledge that we had  so when I was asking my husband, prior to this podcast, what would you say about, what has helped us stay in relationship with our children?

And he said, well, I think we're really lucky because they are very kind and understanding about our flaws and the things  that we didn't know any better. And that is very true. 

CANDICE
Yeah, I think sometimes we don't give our kids enough credit for how generous they can be. And, that's beautiful that you can see that in them, the grace that they offer you. Not every child's prepared to offer that at any given moment, right?

CANDICE
It can be different for everyone.   But we're all on this growing journey. And so I think there's hope that  if that's not your experience now, that might be your experience in the future. Yeah, I think sometimes you just luck out and have awesome kids who are kind and forgiving. 

TIFFANY
Yes, yes to all of that. And also, I remember right when all this happened, talking to someone who was about seven years down the road of having a child come out as gay, and they were in such a different place than I was that I just thought,  I don't think I'll ever be able to be that calm and just, okay with life and yet it's true, so it's one thing for me to say it's 6 years down the, certainly they all had their journey as well, but , I would say, overall, they have been very generous and kind and and wanting to stay in relationship.

And I'm so appreciative of that. I know that's not always the case. 

CANDICE
If it's okay for me to ask, how old was Brie when she came out 6 years ago and you had this conversation?  

TIFFANY
Brie was 26.

CANDICE
Okay, so solid adult.

TIFFANY
Yeah, solid adult, returned a missionary, married in the temple. 

I don't remember if I said actually, but at that point they let us know also that they were leaving the church.  The years after  were filled with a lot of learning and a lot more change.  And all of us in the family were really encountering some major cognitive dissonance. 

 Because we knew Brie, we knew her heart, and we knew that she was telling the truth about her experiences.  And that she was female, not male. And even if our puny mortal minds couldn't wrap our brain around it, we knew that there was an explanation for how this was the case.  And we also, had to each individually decide how that affected our relationship with the LDS church, given some of the teachings about gender. 

And during that time period, there were some really difficult talks that were given in conference maybe I was oversensitive, but they felt difficult and they felt difficult to my kids.  And so we all had to go forward with whatever we felt was true for us.

So, two more of our kids felt like they could not be part of the church. And so they left.  And our youngest at that point was only 15, maybe, 16.  And then our daughter, our number three, who had just started college.  And for myself, I had to really, redefine my relationship with the church, with God, with my savior, with myself, with my understanding of what my job had been as a parent. 

And, honestly, there certainly was a lot to deal with in understanding the transgender experience from the outside and, within the family, but honestly, there were many times I felt like having kids leave the church felt harder. 

CANDICE
Hmm. 

TIFFANY
That year in Come Follow Me, we were studying Doctrine and Covenants. And that ended up being really fortuitous for me because I was really diving in and the Spirit spoke to me so much through the Doctrine and Covenants that year. And I kept finding things that were talking about being prepared for a great work. 

And so the Spirit prompted me to explore this. And as I did, I went back and read one of my journal entries. I had to pick apart and be like, okay, so what is my great work? And I was able to articulate that I really had felt like, my job, my work had been to make sure each of my kids had a testimony and stayed active in the church,  and I see now that this was a false narrative.  It's not even supported by so many great stories that are in the scriptures I mean, agency is there for a reason, but this belief felt very real to me. It drove me to shoulder weight that was not mine to carry and anxiously there was so much fear underlying a lot of the things that I was doing. My husband on Sunday had pulled up a talk from women's conference. He was watching something and I was laughing. I said, I remember all the years I'd go to women's conference or whatever  like that.

And I would come back with a list. this anxious list of all the things that we've got to do better. We've got to do better. We're not quite good enough.  And underneath that all was this fear, like if I didn't do it quite right, something was going to go wrong. So now, according to that definition.

It went wrong, right?  And what a wonderful crash that was, I am so grateful that I didn't live my life under that same assumption that that was my job because it never was that was never my job  And when I got emotionally healthy enough I was able to confront myself on some of the feelings that I'd had early on. I found that when I was sitting in church, I would sit, I had a journal, and I would write off to the side the words that were, coming to me.

And the words that we're on repeat. We're things like  “bereft” and “cheated”

CANDICE
Oh yeah,

TIFFANY
and angry   you know, that sort of thing. And so when I was ready to start working through that, I'm like, okay, so why do I feel cheated? That's so. Interesting that that's a word that comes up to me and I realized I thought this was a formula and I did my part of the deal. 

And I was expecting that my actions would lead to an outcome and it wasn't what I expected.

CANDICE
You put in your X and you did not get Y.

TIFFANY
No. 

CANDICE
Darn it. 

TIFFANY
I know.

CANDICE
I have had that experience as well.  Yeah, 

TIFFANY
Yeah, and honestly, at this stage of life as a middle aged mom, I think most parents are having this experience in one way or another. And I'm so grateful. I have, one daughter that has one, almost two kids, and I'm just hopeful that the next generation can not internalize some of the anxious fear, the feeling like we need to do the Savior's job as much as I feel like I did.

CANDICE
yeah. I feel really grateful for my children helping me learn this lesson.  I did not learn it earlier on my own and I think there are reasons that make sense, but as they've come into young adulthood, I just genuinely appreciate that I've had to recognize that I am not Jesus.  

TIFFANY
Absolutely.

CANDICE
This has never been my job and I need to loosen my grip and  be more respectful of agency and more trusting and faithful in the atonement of Jesus Christ. 

TIFFANY
I totally agree.  There were some great scriptures in the Doctrine and Covenants that talk about your offering. I don't remember who, it doesn't even matter to me who the Lord was talking to at that point, because really, he was talking to me. It might have been to Oliver or to Joseph, but it was like, “I see your offering, and it is accepted.”

When I read that, I realized that the Lord was aware of what I had tried to do.  No, it was aware of what I did. 

CANDICE
Yeah.

TIFFANY
and it was good. 

CANDICE
Yeah.

TIFFANY
And, that I could lay down that fear.  And allow the savior to do his work with my kids and with me just in helping me not to feel like I had to carry all the weight.

I had to bear the pain and that  I could, Give my kids the space with their God-given agency to have their own experiences in their own bodies and their own minds that they came to earth with. 

I felt very strongly from my heavenly parents, that They were not surprised that Brie was transgender. 

They were not surprised that these things were happening. And really, I didn't honestly feel like my savior or my heavenly parents were that worried, which kind of surprised me.  And it gave me permission to trust, like you said, and to lay it down, that I could relax and be a consultant for them when they asked for input. 

And the rest of the time I could just be a cheerleader and it actually, was and is such a relief, such a beautiful thing. I will say if I still had one child at home and it's a different thing to have a kid out of the house and the kid that you're still raising in the house.

And so there were some different dynamics over the coming years of. My child doesn't want to go to church anymore. And so allowing, you know, figuring, navigating that did feel different to me and yet the same too, and hopefully I handled it better with number four than I would have, if number one had, I don't know,  I'm hoping I learned, and the spirit has been wonderful at teaching me to pointing me to my kids’ amazing qualities. 

What good people they are and, what righteous desires they have and their desire to be in good relationship with others, not just us, but other people, I feel great about that. Some of that is just their own wonderfulness and some of that I helped to nurture, in raising them.

I feel good about that. And I feel very strongly that the Lord's plan going back to there was some scriptures that talk about,” I have a great work for you.” And when I was pondering what this great work was, I finally came to the conclusion that there is a work the Lord would like me to do and my family, and it's totally different than what I expected,  but it's actually maybe a greater work than what I had ever expected that it looks like, loving and trusting God, that God has a plan for each of my kids and everybody else's kids.

And that there is a bigger picture and that there is ambiguity. There are things we do not know and that I can sit with that and I can trust and leave space for questions and be grateful to be part of a religion that believes in continuing revelation because that is, I hold onto that. That's very important to me. 

CANDICE
Yeah, that's important to me, too. Thank you for sharing these tender things with us, Tiffany.  I wonder how this has impacted the network of relationships in your family. Can you talk a little bit, within your immediate family and then maybe with extended family? What has that been like for you? 

TIFFANY
Yeah. It's certainly been a process in some respects. There was some acclimation, to some of the changing, especially with Brie coming out as transgender,  it took a while for everyone to kind of settle into, “oh, this is the new normal and we're okay.” But we navigated that and we're in a good space. 

And I remember, this was such a little thing, but one day when there was kind of some tension between a few of the kids and I had this thought, I'm not a super techie person, but I had this thought come to me to start a WhatsApp chat thread for my kids.  And it was such a little thing. Like I probably should have thought of that before then, but, we did. And just that little thing,  started to thaw a little bit of the discomfort and where people could share their every day and, cheer each other on and share a picture. And now that's something that we love, but it's just really fun to communicate back and forth.  

Extended family, it varied quite a bit. So when Brie came out in July and my daughter, my second daughter, my second oldest got engaged about six months later, got married the next May. So we had a wedding, with both sides of the family there and they are in different places as far as how supportive they are. And it varies pretty dramatically, I'm hesitant to go into a lot of detail, but I'll just say that it is such a heartbreak to watch how painful it is for my child to be rejected for something that is not her fault  for something that is not only not her fault, but is a beautiful part of who she is that is very painful for her.

And it's very painful for me.  But there have been many family members who are amazing  and so supportive and loving and Christlike. 

CANDICE
So, what kinds of things have people done that you have felt supported by? 

TIFFANY
I think it's interesting that there are members of my family who are in the Church and who are not in the Church.  And, that doesn't make a difference. There are people who are Church members, not Church members who immediately started using the preferred pronouns and the new name and would make plans because Brie lived in a different state than everyone would reach out and call. 

I think sometimes, even as a mom, I was kind of uncomfortable for me to, go back to thinking about my own experience because I came to realize after a while, I'm focusing too much on myself. And I need to be thinking about how this might be affecting my child, even though I had my own process to go through. 

And so I think the people who were able to set aside, whatever they were processing and have contact, normal contact, loving contact was huge.  My father-in-law who's passed on now and who had had a stroke and very little,  He lost the ability to read, mostly, and, was quite limited in what he could do. But, he still, somehow, until he died, would call all the grandkids, call every family member on their birthday.  And I remember,  Brie calling me in tears, saying that Grandpa had called and had addressed her as Brie and talked to her lovingly. That should be a given, right? That should just be what we expect.

But it was just such a little loving thing that was so noticed and so appreciated. 

CANDICE
It kind of breaks my heart how big of an impact something like that can have when  mostly something a lot of us get to take for granted 

TIFFANY
Mm-Hmm.

CANDICE
There are people who are not experiencing that and so it can be really meaningful to have these simple acknowledgements. 

TIFFANY
Yes. For sure.  I really appreciated that. One thing that we discovered that was important for us to do and that I appreciated some family members doing, Is doing our own emotional work separate and not with the individuals, whether it's about kids leaving the church or whether it's about being queer, whatever, I noticed that it just made such a difference if we were able to tend to our own needs, to process things in safe places. 

And keep that relationship that time that we're interacting with children, with family members as just pure love. 

CANDICE
Yeah.

TIFFANY
We did not always do it perfectly, but that really stood out as something important. Yes,

CANDICE
I think that’s wise. One way I might describe it is taking responsibility for your own emotions. We have our own emotional experience that comes from how we see the world and sometimes we encounter things that don't fit with that. We have to kind of process that  and work it through.

And, no one else's behavior is responsible for our feelings. We're responsible for our own feelings, and if we can have the ownership of that, it doesn't strain the relationship by putting something inappropriately on my kid. My kids' life is their life and how I feel about it. That's all mine.

That has nothing to do with them. And.  So I think it can reduce the strain on the relationship if we're willing to do that. And I've also noticed that when I remember that, I feel more empowered, my life seems less out of control.  so I think that that is a wise tip you've given us and it isn't always easy to do, but it's worth doing. 

TIFFANY
Yes, absolutely. I did find that as I was struggling to do that and trying to do better that I got a lot of spiritual help. And so that tells me that our heavenly parents are very interested in our lives and in, supporting us in that, as I reached out and asked for help in trying to separate out this and do my healing work through things that, there were some beautiful things that happened and beautiful inspirations that helped me feel the immense love and mercy that  God has for us that I hadn't even imagined was that big.

CANDICE
That's beautiful. Tiffany, I wonder if you could share with us how having your children not come to church brought you closer to Jesus.

TIFFANY
 I'm still in the process of learning how to let the Savior do His work and not get in the way. And the situation with my kids not coming to church and navigating differences in faith, has required me to set down the burden of responsibility that I was carrying and accept that my heavenly parents have a plan for my children, that there are things I can't understand right now. 

I remember at one point I was in the temple and pondering this, cause it's such a nice quiet place. And I felt like my heart was kind of shattered and I would never tell my children that because that was my stuff, but I just felt like this is all just too much. I just can't carry this anymore.

I don't understand. I don't know how this all fits. I don't know how it's all going to work out. And I had a mental image of picking it all up, pulling it together from out of my heart, and then laying it down at Jesus’ feet, who I could picture being right there in the temple, and, the process of doing that, whether in that moment or just ongoing, that has completely changed my relationship to Jesus Christ, because I feel like I am doing my best to lay those things down.

And as I've done that, my love for Jesus and appreciation has increased. I accept that I know so little. I feel like the more I know, the less I know. In some ways that's great because I can just say, I don't understand. And I know you understand, and I'm laying it all down. And that's absolutely strengthened my testimony of the Savior. 

I was just thinking one thing, my favorite scripture is in the Doctrine and Covenants. We'll see if I can do it right. But it says, “cheerfully do all things that lie in our power.” And I think about that a lot. What is that? What is that not? “And then stand still with the utmost assurance to see the salvation of Christ, of God,”  oh, and, “for his arm to be revealed.”

Such a beautiful scripture, [Doctrine and Covenants] 123:17. And that directs my path these days. Because,  in there I see that God's in charge, there's more to be revealed, I do my part, and then I let the Savior do the rest. 

CANDICE
That's beautiful.  Thank you so much for being with us today, Tiffany. I'm really grateful for your willingness to come and talk about tender experiences for yourself and for your family. When we do this, we offer other people hope that even if we don't come up with all the answers, we can feel more love in our lives.

 You're a beautiful example of showing love to people. So thanks for being here. 

TIFFANY
Thank you. 

CANDICE
And with that, I will just remind everyone,  there are no empty chairs.