If you are an independent restaurant owner who believes in collaboration over competition, then this resource is for you. Today, I have the pleasure of hosting Kristen Rauch on the show. Kristen is the executive director for Eat Denver, which is a nonprofit membership organization that works to connect and empower the Denver region's independent food and beverage community. Since its founding in 2006, eat Denver's membership has grown to over 350 locally-owned independent restaurants, bars, coffee shops, breweries, bakeries, food trucks, food hall stalls, caterers and more. Guided by the belief that a rising tide lifts all boats, the foundation of the organization is fostering collaboration between food and beverage owners, chefs, managers and staff. Eat Denver's work includes hosting monthly industry education programs and professional development opportunities. Fostering collaboration within the industry through digital membership platforms and networking events. Marketing independent restaurants through their headline events and social media. And advocating on a local and statewide scale for the needs and values of an inclusive and equitable food and beverage community. Today, we're going to talk about some of the pain points in the Denver community and why Eat Denver is a great resource for all independent operators, whether you are new to the business or an industry veteran. We're also going to discuss how Eat Denver can help you market your business and create a sustainable business model. We're also going to discuss how Eat Denver can help you market your business and create a sustainable business model. We're also going to talk about how surrounding yourself with a community of like-minded individuals at Eat Denver can help you think differently about your business and contribute to making the industry better.
Christin Marvin:Welcome to the No Hesitations podcast, the show where restaurant leaders learn tools, tactics and habits from the world's greatest operators. I am your host, Christin Marvin, with Solutions by Christin. I've spent the last two decades in the restaurant industry and now partner with restaurant owners to develop their leaders and scale their businesses without wasting time and energy, so they can achieve work-life balance and make more money. You can now engage with me on the show and share topics you'd like to hear about, leadership, lessons you want to learn and any feedback that you have. Simply click the link at the top of the show notes and I'll give you a shout out on a future episode. Thanks so much for listening and I look forward to connecting. Hi, Kristen, welcome to the show. How are you? Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. I am doing great. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm super, super excited to have you on. We've already had the meet and greet conversation where anybody knows if you've got the name Kristen. You always start with hey, how do you spell your name?
Kristen Rauch:The C-H is a new one.
Christin Marvin:Yeah, I know it is. It's very, very unique. I don't know what my mom was thinking, but anyway, that's how Kristen's always introduced himself. We have to talk about why our name is spelled the way that it's spelled and how.
Kristen Rauch:So anywho, I love the 10,. You're a 10.
Christin Marvin:Yep, 100%, 100%. Well, we are going to talk about Eat Denver today, which you know is an organization that is just so near and dear to my heart and I'm super excited to have you really highlight you know from a high level perspective what Eat Denver is doing for the Denver community, for independent restaurants and beyond. It's really evolved since I was a part of it as a member and a board member back in the day and really excited to have you talk about the changes, the evolution of Eat Denver, the pain points of the industry that you're seeing because I don't think that they're too far off from you. Know what's happening nationwide and worldwide, and then you know how Eat Denver is really supporting restaurants and people in the food space and challenging them to think differently. So really, this is going to be just action packed and can't wait for all the listeners to hear all the knowledge that you've got around the industry in Denver.
Kristen Rauch:So thank you so much Of course, yeah, excited to share what I can.
Christin Marvin:I love it Well, and I know that you eagerly prepared, which is amazing. So let's start with talking about share with the listeners a little bit of background on Eat Denver.
Kristen Rauch:Yeah, so I feel like this was really fun and I was talking to you earlier, Eat Denver was founded when I was in middle school and so I went through a deep dive of all of our organizational timelines and I just think it's cool. People haven't realized that we've been around for so long and our impact and kind of this lasting impact on a lot of the city's programs and events, and so, if you don't mind, I'll do like a little timeline. I love it.
Christin Marvin:I love it, cause that was really, I think, like 07, 08 was when I really got involved in the organization, and from a GM perspective. So I can't wait to hear about, about the evolution and some things I've missed out on too. So, yeah, yeah.
Kristen Rauch:So we were founded in 2006. So you joined pretty pretty early on and we weren't originally called Eat Denver, we were called Denver Independent Network of Restaurants, which abbreviated to DINR, and it was started by Yasu of Sushi Den, john Imbrogamo, who's still a on our board, Josh Wolkon, who at the time had Vesta, but still Steuben's an ace, Amanda Faison, then at 5280 Magazine, Stephanie Bonin and Keith Arnold of Duo, and then Rhonda Sanquist, who was kind of that legal partner at the time, who's the food journalist, was the initial executive director. And so the primary goal of its founding was Denver was watching all of these chain restaurants and franchises come in. They had overwhelming advertising and pull from customers, and so all of these independents in Denver at the time not a ton of independents, not really known as a food city just really wanted to create a group that was independent, focused. That secondary goal was group purchasing power. And so how do we even compete with chains and franchises? And at the time the membership was only open to a full service restaurant model. And so just think like 30 restaurants getting together monthly basis to discuss business, to discuss the state of the city, and then just how do we continue growing this organization? Where's our place as a non-profit in the city, and so, over the years, grew from there.
Kristen Rauch:In 2008, the membership structure changed beyond just a full service to anyone serving 50% or more food. So no bars still, but that expanded it quite a bit to a food hall or maybe a beverage concept that served food on the side like a gastropub. And it was this year that we also founded Harvest Week, which at the time was really a dine around around the city, really highlighting independent restaurants and playing into that seasonal produce and people could just dine around for a kind of like a Denver restaurant week. It was like a harvest week specific menu celebrating Colorado's bounty. So then in 2009, adam Schlegel, who's one of the founders of Snooze, and Chuck started Eat Greener Denver, which in 2011, adopted by the city, that is now what you'd recognize as a certifiably green Denver program. And so there was this whole other like sustainable arm of Eat Denver. And then in 2010, we launched the Big Eat, which was at the time I don't know if you remember when Union Station was basically a parking lot yeah, Like just this dirt lot.
Christin Marvin:So Big Eat was there and it was circus themed, which, with a fear of clowns, terrifying I was actually on the committee for the Big Eat and for Harvest Week and watched the evolution of that and that. So Union Station was so scary at the time that we wouldn't even walk down that street because it was so dark and scary. It just wasn't a great place to be right. And I remember that event. It was hotter than hell. We were on the asphalt. It was just like our first one. We had this little triangle area where we could set up and it was, you know, you just start small and now to see where it is, you know, in the gallery, it's, it's incredible. But uh, but yeah, I mean it's time.
Kristen Rauch:They're like dirt parking lot 20 restaurants, 300 attendees. I think tickets were 20 dollars. Yep, like I'm eat some food in the union station, dusty parking lot, great. And like you're saying I mean we'll probably get into it. But what the biggie is now? And like 1200 attendees and we're selling out and like people just want more and more access to local restaurants. So cool, um. But you know, in 2012 our membership models switched again and so now it was a 20% food sales requirement versus that 50%. So gradually moving away from that full service model, kind of recognizing that the people coming into the city didn't necessarily look like full service restaurants anymore. And by the end of 2014, we had 80 members and then by the end of 2016, we had 170 members, so grew significantly before the pandemic. Obviously, the pandemic happened.
Kristen Rauch:Eat Denver took more of an advocacy stance. You know we weren't charging member dues at the time. It was really about how do restaurants survive in this climate? Everyone knows that conversation. And so things like Double Down for Denver, denver, you know, selling gift cards for independent restaurants, advocating for alcohol to go for expanded patios, stuff like that was really um at the head. And so, post-pandemic, we're like okay, we can breathe again.
Kristen Rauch:How do we, now that these restaurants have survived? Um, we can ask ourselves these larger questions like what does the food scene in Denver look like now? How do we define equity and inclusion and how do we work with those models and how do we keep growing and how do we become a community that people want to join and then stay a part of? And so where we are today, we, in 2023, completely redefined our mission statement. So now, instead of being just for restaurants, we say food and beverage concepts. Instead of just saying Denver, we say the region, and so really developing like robust community partnerships, really building on that next generation. That's maybe not doing a brick and mortar model who's doing a food truck, a food hall stall, a catering business and maybe working up to that. But, yeah, a lot of cool programs through the years, some that haven't survived, but a lot of Eat Denver poking throughout the city.
Christin Marvin:Yeah, I mean, just thinking about the early days, the mission, like you said, was so much about just building awareness to the community of diners out there, right that they should support local over the chains.
Christin Marvin:And when you look at the dining scene now in Denver, I mean you know, I saw it start to explode and I think 2007 to 2012 was it felt like every independent chef and restaurant owner was opening five to six different concepts and neighborhoods really started to explode and right, and the chains continue to kind of pop up in suburban areas, I think, but the independent dining scene is just thriving. I mean everything, the cafes, the breweries, the food trucks. I mean it's just it's absolutely incredible and it's so exciting now to to even come back every six to eight weeks because there's always a list of new places to go check out that are even more innovative and creative. And it's just, it's so amazing and I love that Eat Denver has pivoted to really understanding what the pain points of the industry are and how they can best support. And I'd really love for you to talk about, you know, kind of again high level, like what are some of the ways that you're supporting the restaurants through the education platform, through events, through marketing.
Kristen Rauch:Yeah, so kind of the four main tenants of what we do, like you just said, are marketing, education, collaboration, connection, peace and advocacy. And so the monthly education programming, anything to do with operations themes, anything to make people's life a little bit easier. We usually are talking constantly to the membership what could be helpful right now? And so programs from this year, for example, margin management, how to impact a bottom line coming right out of the new year so that you're constantly you know you're already thinking about your budget. There's new minimum wage legislation, how are you staying on top of your profit margins, growth and expansion panels. We have so many people who are looking at secondary concepts or maybe first concepts growing out of like a food hall space and so what are considerations there? And then following that up with a secondary program from a restaurant investor, substance abuse and addiction, employee wellness, reputation management, kind of all of these different parts of operations that maybe I as an operator can't find these programming myself or don't have time to put together, finding a facilitator. So Eat Denver brings that in front of people through virtual and in-person programming. I think also you know that collaboration piece, we host an industry listserv, we do member newsletters, kind of all these digital membership platforms for people to connect and share resources and referrals. And then we do headline events and so you know you're connected with all your other restaurant people now connect with the general public through things like the Big Eat Food Festival or Harvest Week, a four night dinner series, or just through social media.
Kristen Rauch:We just started. I don't know if you've seen it. That's fun. I was so sick of influencers. I did. We had gone a whole tangent about influencer culture. We could do another episode on that. I cannot stand seeing another influencer go to the same place and be like, oh my gosh, this is so good. And then a friend come to Denver, go to that place that they saw on a video and be like it was fine. Fine, the Denver food scene is bad.
Kristen Rauch:And so we started our own real series where we go and we interview chefs and owners and media people from the industry about their favorite places to eat and dine around the city and drink around the city. And you know, like where do you get your best food recommendations? It's from the industry, and so we really wanted to connect people with those direct, you know, recommendations from their favorite bartender or their favorite chef. That's awesome and then it's really cool because they're shouting each other out, like this is a community that's in direct competition, but you're really highlighting other people doing great work around the city. Yeah, and so that last piece, advocacy, you know, just on a local and statewide scale, just making sure that policy and politicians are thinking about the values and needs of, we say, an inclusive and equitable food and beverage community and specifically for independents, a small business community I love it and specifically for independence a small business community.
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Christin Marvin:I don't know we didn't talk about this before, but do you know what percentage of restaurants are independent in Denver? Ooh, I don't. Okay, I don't either. Yeah, it's published on a statewide scale, but Okay, gotcha, no, it's all good. I was thinking we were just having this conversation with a local group in Tucson, and same thing. There's an organization down here that's that was put together in order to fight, you know, fight the chains and really band, band again together the independent restaurants and anyway, just again focusing on that, that collaboration over competition, you know, and just how, how can everybody band together Like you're talking about? And I was just thinking about?
Kristen Rauch:you know, you've got over what 350 or so members now and you said you, you know you are havingating pretty deeply. I think there's things that are always happening, especially in a denver scene. Um, profit margins right, labor is pretty stabilized, food cost is kind of stabilized. Um, denver has legislation in the constitution that our minimum wage will increase by a dollar every january 1st until infinity. And so, as people you know, the industry has profit margins of about two to 5% on average, and that's a national average. But if that's your operating margins and then you're increasing your wage line by some operators 250,000, if you have multi-unit concept, where are you finding a quarter of a million dollars to add into your budget? And so that's something that a lot of people are thinking about and that's going to be every year and so-.
Christin Marvin:And it's an eight, is it an 18? And change right now, yep.
Kristen Rauch:Yep A little over 18, 1827. And so, with a tip credit of you know, $3 less and so I think 1529 right now. But I think along with that is a big challenge we're seeing is a public perception of what things should cost in Denver. Dolores from the Greenwich used to own a concept in New York City and, as she says, the current tipped minimum wage in Denver is 53% higher than in New York City right now. But you add that to your operations costs and you add that onto your menu and then it's reflected in the cost of food, and when people dine out in Denver they see New York City prices, but their perception is not that our food scene is like New York City, and so there's almost an anger that comes with why does my food cost so much? Or if operators are adopting different tipping models like a service charge or a tip pool.
Kristen Rauch:It's not universal, and so I think there's a lot of confusion or miseducation. It's not universal, and so I think there's a lot of confusion or miseducation. And then I think there's also a miseducation about wage equity and I think the term equity is thrown around a lot and a lot of operators all operators you have to be good to your staff or you won't retain staff in an industry where it's so hard to be fully staffed. And so I think when people argue, we'll just pay your people well, that's not really the argument. That's happening here and people are being paid well. It's just a matter of where that fits into your operation costs, and so you know, I think it's maybe not about changing someone's mind. It's just about creating a campaign to tell the true operation story and hopefully inspiring more educated dining, just so people feel less angry on both sides. I don't know if you're hearing that from other people as well, but that's kind of our big challenge right now is that consumer education.
Christin Marvin:Yeah, absolutely, you know it is. It's just so expensive to go out. It's so much more expensive to go out to eat and I think it's. You know, we've, we've always really supported local restaurants, but, and man, I'll tell you what, like, if we're going to put that dollar anywhere in terms of dining out, it's going to be 100 percent in independent restaurants. And I think, again, I love that you guys are continuing to spread the awareness and putting together these social media campaigns and and continuing to support the industry, because it's it's not those those issues you talked about, with labor and cogs starting to stabilize a little bit, but you never know. You know, and labor, like you, starting to stabilize a little bit, but you never know, and labor, like you said, is going to continue to go up.
Christin Marvin:So this is really the time where I think, especially restauranteurs in the full service space and that mid-range price point they've got to think differently about their business. They've got to lean on data more than they ever have before to understand what's working and what's not. And you and I were having this conversation, but there are restaurateurs in the US and in Denver that have been in business for 17 to 20 years that have seen amazing results. And now we're saying now I have to start marketing for the first time ever. Now I've got to figure out how to get people in the door. How do I do this after all this time? So I'd love to know how is Eat Denver really collaborating and supporting restaurant owners in thinking differently about their business?
Kristen Rauch:Yeah, I mean, I think on that point, with technology, that is a benefit that came out of the pandemic, I think, because a lot of people were so strapped for labor. They're like how am I going to organize my marketing, organize my financials, data collection Started thinking about all these things and all these tech companies arose that can automate so much of that process for you, and I do think that that is the future, whether it's AI or it's all these tech and these integrated systems that can now do a bunch of the different tech under one platform, and so I think there's a lot more options for operators to combat things like this. As far as how Eat Denver is helping people think differently, I'm going to take it, you know, more high level to that community piece. But at the heart of Eat Denver is really this belief that a rising tide lifts all boats, and I really love this quote from John Mbergamo, who is one of the founders, but he says you know, things like education and communication. Those are the easy to describe mechanics of eat Denver. Those are the things that work well. That's like why the community exists.
Kristen Rauch:But what's really important is the collaboration, and so restaurateurs, who compete tooth and nail for business are coming together to share their knowledge. It's wild and I've heard that it's not easily replicated in other cities yet. But for an industry that's so innately competitive if you know, if a consumer goes next door to a different restaurant, you've lost business. But to support each other so openly as they do with the Neat Denver is a really cool change in mindset, and we see people who will drive equipment across town If someone's oven breaks. We see people who share that a member of their team is struggling or they've lost a member of their team and they'll get phone calls from other operators in town offering support or opportunities.
Kristen Rauch:I think it's really cool to see a community like Eat Denver, where shared resources actually leads to more resiliency, and I think it's helping restaurants think differently about their role in like a regional community food system, because if independent restaurants can succeed by promoting each other, then you kind of keep this heartbeat of the city. You attract more people to the city, they eat the food, they hear the stories, they experience genuine hospitality and so the consumer starts understanding how independent food and beverage differs from a chain or a franchise, and then they go and tell their friends and then it all feeds back into the community. So then they keep dining out of independent restaurants and then it kind of is like more patronage for all. I think we're helping restaurants think differently in that way of like community resiliency?
Christin Marvin:Yeah, absolutely, I you know. It's funny that you brought that up. When I first moved to Tucson I remember calling Adam and I said would you, will you just remind me of? You know why Denver was started? And again a little bit of the evolution about it and around it and the pain points. And he said are you going to start an E2, son? And I said I don't know, but I'm it's no work at all, you'll love it. I was like I'm starting my own company, so I don't think I have room to do a nonprofit right now too. But I said I don't know yet. I'm just really curious.
Christin Marvin:I was searching for any Denver here and I hadn't found it yet. And then I and I was brand new and there's a couple of organizations here that, like I said, are doing, are doing that. But I really was missing that sense of community when I moved down here and that network and being able to walk into restaurants and and go to those monthly meetings and hear. You know, just just have that network of like-minded people when I was in operations. I found so much value in it because it helped me feel less lonely and it just reminded me that what I was doing every single day was impacting the entire community in Denver and just part of something so much bigger than just our one restaurant or five or 48 or whatever, depending on what group I was with.
Christin Marvin:And I do agree with you that the community that you guys have built in Denver is so special and is not something that you find across the nation and I think that's important for Eat Denver members to really understand the nation and I think that you know I think that's important for Eat Denver members to really understand and value. And I know you know we were talking earlier about community participation kind of being down a little bit, and I've had that conversation with some, some restaurateurs of like where's the sense of community now? What's going on? Are people busy? Is it not as important? Are they not prioritizing it? You know, and I do think that it's you guys have made such a huge impact and it's there for a reason and it really Eat Denver can really help businesses be so sustainable and I'd love for you to talk a little bit about you know why is Eat Denver so important and so valuable to brand new restaurant owners and people in the food space and as well as veteran industry people.
Kristen Rauch:You know, I think you brought up how community engagement feels low. I think it feels low sometimes in the in-person programming, but the majority of our members are citing that an industry listserv is their greatest benefit, are citing that an industry listserv is their greatest benefit, like they are part of Eat Denver to be connected digitally. And so when you become a member of Eat Denver, your owner, operator, high-level management, get added to our industry listserv. It's only other Eat Denver members and it's only other people in the food and beverage, independent food and beverage space. And so you know there's that one benefit that it's kind of you're getting reliable recommendations. So you're saving time, effort, hopefully money, just by asking someone like, hey, does anyone have a good plumber? And you get recommendations right there. At a deeper level, I think, like you're saying when you move to Tucson, like screaming into the void gets a little lonely sometimes. I think, like you're saying when you moved to Tucson, like screaming into the void gets a little lonely sometimes. And so even if someone's echoing your sentiments, even if you're like, wow, all this new legislation hit, this sucks right now, there's kind of camarader, an actionable answer from someone who's been there before and maybe learned from a mistake and can help guide you to success easier than you figuring it out on your own.
Kristen Rauch:I think we see a lot of requests for like equipment or service providers, but we also get people who are asking you know what employee benefits are you employing at your business? Or how are you adjusting your systems as new legislation comes out? And so more operations level services to ensure resiliency. And at this point we're about 75% multi-unit concepts, so restaurant groups, and then 25% single unit concepts. And a lot of those multi units were single units. They were the snooze 20 years ago that had one location that is now this like conglomerate taking over the nation, but they were there decades prior and so they're still part of eat Denver. And so, if I'm a mom and pop who just joined, the answers to my questions and these insights are being shared with these super established owners and operators and they can provide that knowledge to the next generation and ensure survival. I think it just feeds into the resiliency piece. People stay in the community and they stay because they were helped out and now they want to help out that next generation.
Christin Marvin:Yeah, absolutely, you know it's. It's interesting because when you brought up the tech piece, I kind of you know tech is, it is the future and it's so important and I sigh because it's overwhelming. I you know working with Snooze for seven years when we went from six to 48 locations. We changed everything. We had to implement tech in every single aspect, streamline their operations and systems and focus more on their people. And there's so much out there right now. There's so much you can do. It's just maddening and I love that.
Christin Marvin:And restaurant owners don't want to be sold a million things all the time. Right, it's exhausting from a tech perspective. And food and beverage and all of that right. And so again, I think that there, I love that you guys are diversifying the organization as much as you have so that people can call and reach out and email and say I've got this issue. What do you recommend? You know those people have done it before and they've done it really well and they've had, they speak the language right, and you can have those conversations with those people in the network without feeling like you're being sold something and just get the real honest feedback that you need about what's going to work best for your business right, because every single independent operation is so different.
Christin Marvin:So I love that, and I think there's a lot of tech, too that people are sitting on, that they just don't even realize right now and that you know, I have a client or a friend here who's had a pizza restaurant for 25 years and he's like we always had online ordering available. We just never turned it on like your pizza. You know, you guys got to started this, but you it's yeah again, I just think the network is super, super valuable and, for those new people that are coming into the industry, such an important way to speed up their learning curve, to make sure that, like you said, they can be resilient and sustainable and really again focus where they need to focus, which is on setting great expectations, hiring great people and continuing to make the restaurant industry a sustainable place for people to go work, because we're seeing less and less people come into the space with experience and it's making everything more difficult on operators today.
Kristen Rauch:Yeah, and I think there's this element to. You know eat Denver, we'll insert ourselves in conversations sometimes as well. I try to stay as informed as possible about new tech. I started our community partner program last year because I was like I've been in a nonprofit space for almost 10 years. My biggest qualm with nonprofits is the lack of resource sharing. Like the whole thing that's working really well with Eat Denver.
Kristen Rauch:I don't see as much in a nonprofit space. People either gatekeep resources or they're like I'll just reinvent the same program that already exists down the street so that it's like my program and I get that because maybe you're competing for grants or sponsors. But I think, yeah, there's so much strength in what I've realized of like I can partner with groups like SBDC, which works on small business development, or DEDO, which helps with economic development, or Visit Denver grant opportunities and I can do all that research and pass it along, and so that element of operations as well, of like additional support that's available in the city that maybe people don't have time to search out themselves or don't have those connections and we have those direct emails.
Christin Marvin:Love it. Well, I know you know at Chow we talk all the time about how important your partnership is with us and I'm so proud we're able to share resources and we'll continue to do so to help the mental health and substance abuse space. So thank you for that.
Kristen Rauch:Yeah, thank you for being part of Chow. We love Chow Heck. Yeah, that's one of those things. Again coming out of the pandemic, it's like okay, step back. These things exist for operators. We can still run education that helps with operations themes. What other parts are operators concerned with right now? Mental health and wellness of the industry is a huge one, and so groups like Chow being out there and us being able to cross promote all of your services and resources is a huge added benefit for Denver members, and if we can help one staff member, that is a huge added benefit for Eat Denver members, and if we can help one staff member, that is a huge impact.
Christin Marvin:Absolutely, absolutely Well, kristen. Thank you so much for being here. Just so much great information. I hope listeners are soaking all this in If they wanna learn more about Eat Denver how do they find you? If they wanna become a member, which everybody should talk a little bit about, that.
Kristen Rauch:Yeah, so we have a website, eatdenvercom or you can find us on Instagram. We post a lot of things on Instagram and if you want to check out that new real series eat underscore Denver is our Instagram handle. We have a bunch of events programming all on the Denver website and then we have a tab eat Denvercom slash membership, where you can check out how to become a member, check out all the member benefits. We have a sliding scale based on growth, annual sales, gross annual sales. So if you are interested in becoming a member, please check that out. We also have a try before you buy model. So if you're interested in membership but might not see like the benefit that you're looking for on the website, just feel free to email us at info at eatdenvercom. Come to a networking event or come to a happy hour and just kind of talk to the community, see what we're all about.
Christin Marvin:I love it. I get excited every time I see you guys highlight a new member and tell their story on social media. That's super special, so amazing.
Kristen Rauch:Oh sorry, I was going to say we're growing outside of just Denver. I know we're called Eat Denver, but if you're anywhere in the Front Range region, we are growing a lot in Arvada, aurora, boulder, westminster. And again, the more we can diversify the membership, the more we can expand our outreach, the stronger the community becomes, absolutely.
Christin Marvin:Love it All right, kristen. Thank you so much for being here, really really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. You bet. All right, everybody that's going to do it for us. Please be sure to share this podcast with any leaders that you know in the restaurant industry that could benefit, and thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week.