Something extraordinary is coming. My memoir, the Hospitality Leader's Roadmap Move from Ordinary to Extraordinary, launches on October 15th on Amazon. This book shares my journey from a 15-year-old line cook to seasoned leader in the hospitality industry, packed with insights on leadership, resilience and transformation. Whether you're an aspiring leader or a seasoned professional, you'll find practical wisdom and inspiration to elevate your career. Mark your calendars and remember 10% of sales from October 15th until the end of 2024 will benefit Chow. Grab your copy on amazoncom on Tuesday, october 15th. Do you know how to spot the next leader on your team? Daniel Frazier does, and today he's going to tell us how. Daniel Frazier started at the Pharmacy Burger in Nashville, tennessee, in 2014 as a host. Over the years, he's held various roles, including server lead, server assistant, general manager, beverage director and bar manager. In July of 2021, he was promoted to general manager and by July of 2022, he became the director of operations for all three pharmacy locations. Daniel is passionate about creating a welcoming and vibrant atmosphere for both staff and guests. I want people to feel the pure electric energy and excitement I feel on warm evenings in the beer garden, he says His dedication to cultivating a positive environment is evident in every aspect of the restaurant, as well as Daniel's leadership. Today, we're going to discuss the following topics Daniel's path from server to director of operations. How he's been effective in rolling out new systems in a restaurant with few set standards. And how he develops himself as a leader at the director of operations level.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the no Hesitations podcast, the show where restaurant leaders learn tools, tactics and habits from the world's greatest operators. I'm your host, kristen Marvin, with Solutions by Kristen. I've spent the last two decades in the restaurant industry and now partner with restaurant owners to develop their leaders and scale their businesses without wasting time and energy, so they can achieve work-life balance and make more money. You can now engage with me on the show and share topics you'd like to hear about, leadership, lessons you want to learn and any feedback that you have. Simply click the link at the top of the show notes and I'll give you a shout out on a future episode. Thanks so much for listening and I look forward to connecting Daniel. Thank you so much for being here. My friend Cannot wait to share your story with the listeners today. This is going to be an absolute blast Coming to us from Nashville today. What's going on in Nashville?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're having a really nice summer season. So I run two locations in the Nashville area called the Pharmacy. One's the Pharmacy Burger Parlor and Beer Garden, which is a full service restaurant in East Nashville, and the other is two stalls that are really one business in the Assembly Food Hall at the Fifth and Broad Development downtown right off of Broadway. It's a QSR or counter service style establishment. So it's a sort of a different take on what we're doing from a service perspective and a limited menu.
Speaker 2:But we've been really happy with what that's been for us and and, yeah, that that's opened the last couple of years and it's kind of really expanded what we're doing from from one location that we felt really good about and that was like beloved to kind of another level of business, which is, which is great, but it's been a really really good year after the last few years being. They've all been positive, but obviously you know from the pandemic and to you know supply chain issues and you know price increases out of stock issues, there's been a lot of things to deal with. But overall it's been really strong and positive and we've been really we've been it's hard not to say we feel both blessed, but also, I feel like the efforts of our team have been rewarded, with things going well.
Speaker 1:I love that. So you mentioned you've got obviously the full service concept, and then you've got the food hall. And is the food hall a different concept than Pharmacy Burger is?
Speaker 2:No, so it's called the Pharmacy One. One stall is the pharmacy burger, the other side is the pharmacy garden and burger. So it's the same menu items, except for in the garden side we do some salads that at this time we don't do. At the East location. Everything else is where. We have 13 burgers at the main location as well as some like sausages that we smoke and pack in house. Downtown we have just five of those burgers and on the other side there's a few burgers and veggie items and then the salads. So it is the. It's a riff on the same concept. It's got the same name the pharmacy but it's a pared down and focused because it's a small space, very small back of house, very limited storage capacity, and we expected to do volume there. So we thought just honing in on a few of our beloved favorites was a great way to honor and service that space and also keep both concepts unique, where you know there's reasons to check out both and because the Assembly Food Hall location is, it's right across the street from both the Bridgestone and the Ryman downtown.
Speaker 2:We see a lot of people that are there for an event and they're used to. I don't know how many of your listeners are familiar with the downtown landscape in Nashville. But Broadway is the famous strip with all the honky tonk bars and there's a lot of things that tourists come down and and Nashvilleians to some degree come down to see the city but it's usually a lot of bar hopping. There's not a lot of food. So the fifth and broad development has given a lot of real food options to people.
Speaker 2:Where you used to go to a show, if you were going to a something downtown you would be bopping and out but and and you wouldn't really stop to eat or do anything. But now there's a place where you can park, you can take your family and then you can go to a Nashville predators game or you can go see a concert, and so we wanted to cater what we were doing to that, to that guest. But then also a lot of people work downtown so there's a lot of lunch business there. So it's been somewhat of a work in progress to find who the customers are in that area. Who are we seeing, even if the it's funny to think of it Tourists and event space.
Speaker 2:People don't feel like regulars the way we think of it, but a tourist is a regular type of guest in one sense of thinking, even though it's not the same person, it is a person with a certain mindset, so it's really important to think of that. If you see people that are vacationing or coming in from out of town or coming in for an event, you want to cater your business to be both worthy of the dollars they're going to be spending in that evening, but also you want it to feel especially for your vacation or less so, the event person, because they're more focused on speed and um and efficiency as they get to the thing they're really planning on doing. Um, yeah.
Speaker 1:For the vacation are you? Yes, totally, yeah. Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. Um, it's interesting to me. I've just I was having this thought as you were talking. Usually restaurants start with a lot of the ones that I know, right, start with a food hall to do a proof of concept and then grow from there. You guys did the opposite.
Speaker 2:We did Was this just an opportunity that was too good to pass up. Or what was the reasoning? There town, with us not having a brand extension? Yet, you know they, they were developing that for several. You know we, we I think we signed on three or four years before it came in. We just felt like this made a lot of sense. It was sort of a no brainer for us. They are great as a proof of concept. Same with, like the food truck idea where you can do limited or a lot of places, do the pop-up thing. Now it does make a lot of sense to get some cash flow, like you said, proof of concept.
Speaker 2:But for us at the time we'd been in business 8 years. Now we've been in business 13 years and we've had a lot of success in the main location and it just made sense, especially because it was downtown, because it was a part of an expansion. And then, strangely enough, even though it was downtown, where there's a lot of customer base, the competition wasn't what you would think it would be, because it's not known for food. Yes, you can get food at all of the bars, but they're not, you know. Uh, not to disparage them at all, they're not places you were like wanting to eat either. Just you know, I mean, except for Robert's Western world where you can get, you know, a bologna sandwich and it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:but it's a bologna sandwich, so I mean it's totally. It is what it is. When you opened, did the concept just take off immediately, or did a dining destination for you here you know, come?
Speaker 2:down? That's a great question. It was mixed. There was very positive reception right away. This was in 2021, may of 2021. So still, people had a lot of COVID on the forefront of their minds. Events were not really. They were coming back, but they weren't back.
Speaker 2:So there was a lot of for us. There was a lot of figuring out. What does this look like? We did see a decent amount of business from the get-go. There was a bit well, there's a lot of that's the word I'm looking for.
Speaker 2:Restaurants are creatures of habit and when you have no habits in a new space, it's always really challenging. So, um, that's why I always say, like you can have a great launch, it's almost always going to be bumpy because people don't have any routines and they don't have any habits. You can do a lot to establish those quicker, or you can have good ideas for habits, but then also, like a lot of things, just develop that real over over time. And this space was no different. Because you're doing the counter service, there are a lot, a lot of things that are easier to control and figure out on the front end because you're not having to walk. You know, you're not walking food to tables like there's just a lot of logistics, a lot of logistics, especially for the service perspective. That makes full service a lot more challenging.
Speaker 2:But there we found a lunch crowd. It took about six months for, I think, for people to realize it was there, at least beyond you know the people that were really clued into what was happening in the city, but once they found out it was there, we're there, alongside a bunch of other wonderful concepts, so it quickly became a beloved spot for people, especially that were headed downtown to come in and get, because you could get a fried chicken, you could get an Indian curry If the wife wants the curry and the husband wants the burger, or vice versa then it's like you can accomplish both those things, which it is Interestingly, though, to talk about it, because we've been in business for 13 years food halls weren't really a thing when we opened back in 2011.
Speaker 2:So, like that wasn't even really an option and, honestly, the food truck thing wasn't even a thing really. Like there were food trucks but as far as like a popular idea of a thing that, like this is how I'd launch a brand, like that just wasn't really. It wasn't a thing that people did yet. Um, that was that was around the time it kind of really started happening in the next like two to three to four years. Um, at least, at least in the Nashville area, it may have been different. Out in like the West coast, which I'm guessing it probably was. Obviously the food carts thing has been going on in New York for you know, forever it seems like.
Speaker 1:But for sure. So that's awesome. So take us back to 2014. So you got hired as a host at Pharmacy Burger and you've been there ever since. We're going to go on this journey together of your development over these years, but walk us through. You know what was it about Pharmacy Burger that made you want to work there?
Speaker 2:Well, I've lived in East Nashville area since 2010. So pharmacy opened shortly after that and at the time I was working at a Kohl's. I was playing in bands, playing music. I have a degree in music production, so like that was kind of my world and I had a buddy that was working at the pharmacy. We had been excited that it opened in the neighborhood. I lived really close by and I actually used to eat there like twice a week at least when it first opened in that first year and then it became a place we would frequent regularly and then my buddy started to work there. So it was kind of a.
Speaker 2:It was a place I was fond of for multiple different reasons. And then, because I was doing the music thing, I was like I need a, I need a way to make some faster cash than doing the retail thing, because being a supervisor to retail is not in a retail position, is not a lot of fun or and is not lucrative, typically speaking. Yeah, so started doing that and just quickly fell in love with restaurant life and just it was. It was I was successful in a work capacity in a different way than I had been before. Personally for me and I feel like I hear that a lot from restaurant people is that you end up doing a restaurant job and you're like, wait, I kind of, you know, I like this and and there's a speed and an energy about this that actually resonates with me and I certainly felt that. So I just started as a host and doing different you know also food, running and seating and busing a little bit and just doing that stuff and enjoyed the community and the people I worked with and we were a busy restaurant and it was just a different environment where it was easier to thrive.
Speaker 2:I did that for about a year and then got trained up to serve. My buddy that got me hired there, or vouched for me to get me hired, was the lead server at the time and at that point, the way they did it, we had a pretty small management team and he was making the server schedule. Well, he eventually left and he's actually now a part of Five Daughters Bakery. If anybody's ever heard of that, he's their director of operations. So he's had a fun sort of career story as well. But there was a vacancy in a leadership position for the service staff. A few months went by when I had a conversation with the leadership at the time because I noticed that, even though I had no leadership title, my teammates would just do what I asked them to do. So like if we were closing down, if we divided up side work.
Speaker 1:Can you tell everybody what the secret to that is, please?
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing I will say. I would love to be able to distill that down, because it's about myself. It's a little harder to do, but I have noticed that sort of innate leadership qualities are something that if you see that in your restaurant or in your business, you need to cherish those and develop those as much as you can, because some people have them and some people don't.
Speaker 1:That being said Totally, what do you think it was that made people do what you asked them to do?
Speaker 2:So I think and trying to talk about this honestly without being also just super self-aggrandizing I think it was because I'm hardworking and I'm honest and I think and I'm pretty fair and then beyond that, I think I'm pretty fun to be around. So we've all had hardworking people that were terrible to be around or just like a bore or just like well man, they're just always so glum and down. You've also had people that were really fun to be around. That also you can't really trust them to get the job done. Nobody likes working with people that you can't depend on. At least once you're actually working.
Speaker 2:And I think for myself, I've always tried to be just honest and fair and hardworking.
Speaker 2:And so I think when I, in confidence, just said, hey, why don't you do this, do this and this, and then I'll ask James to take this out and this and that and the other One, as long as what you're doing is actually fair and feels good, people can pretty easily sense that that what he's asking me to do makes sense, what he's asking them to do makes sense, and they can just like quickly turn that on in their brains and go, okay, this is great and I'll just do that.
Speaker 2:And when you cultivate a certain I say cultivate a persona, which is not the way I think about the way I do things, but when you have a persona that's you've got an infectious personality, you're enjoyable to be around, it makes it like, it makes it pretty easy for people to be like yeah, I'll do that. And, and I just sort of. I noticed that the, the, the management team at the time noticed that and they were like let's, we had a conversation with like can we put a title on this Cause? I, I, basically, I think I'm already doing the thing that we need done.
Speaker 1:Did that we need done? Did you ask for that title, Daniel, or did they?
Speaker 2:recognize that you were stepping up and wanted to talk about leadership. So this time they actually reached out to me. They had a conversation. First I had had a kind of idea in my head about it too, but I had not approached them about that to be the lead there. So then they did that about that to be the lead there. So then they did that. That entitled some more responsibilities and some other, and that in a small pay bump or whatever. And but it was it was. It was really nothing but great, and that's the biggest thing I've found when I develop leadership now. Obviously, if you're hiring a manager from outside, you don't have the privilege of getting to work alongside them to see. But for people within the restaurant, I look for people that are basically already doing the job or some semblance of the job, or basically at least already commanding a certain leadership. They have a certain quality of character that the people around them already honor and kind of respect, something.
Speaker 1:Before we jump back into today's episode, let's shine a light on a pressing issue in the restaurant industry employee retention. If you're grappling with the challenges of keeping a solid team together, you're not alone. I would like to extend an invitation for a quick 15-minute discovery call to discuss your specific situation and explore strategies to boost restaurant retention. Your team is the heart of your business and retaining great talent is crucial for your mental and physical health, as well as the health of your business. Visit my website at kristinmarcom slash contact to schedule your call. Let's collaborate to enhance your retention strategies and create an environment where your team thrives. Now back to the show. Thanks for tuning in and I'm eager to connect with you soon.
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Speaker 2:We like to believe that people can be developed, of course, but you can't give a title to someone that can't walk with the accountability that it takes to be a leadership, and it doesn't come up out of nowhere. It kind of has to be there in some capacity to begin with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some of those?
Speaker 2:Speak to some of those qualities and characteristics that you look for, yeah. What are some of those? Speak to some of those qualities of characteristics that you look for, yeah. So that I mean the big one is is, uh, is both honesty and follow through. You have to, um, do what you say and and follow through on the things you say you're going to do. Um, and then if there is a is a situation where that doesn't happen, there really needs to be an understandable and good reason that it didn't happen and that the person you're going to communicate it to is like, oh, that makes that actually makes sense, why XYZ, this didn't happen, whether, if it's just a failing, then you just got to own up to it.
Speaker 2:Some of it is hard to define. It's just someone. It sometimes like we all know the person that walks in the room and there's just a magnetic personality, energy to it and I need to think a lot more about defining it. But you can just feel it on someone and I often tell people that trust your instincts there, look at who they are. But you can feel it somewhat in an interview. Obviously, people are putting their best foot forward in an interview, but definitely when you're working with someone, you should be able to feel and see that they are.
Speaker 2:But the other one, a big one, is that you want to hear basically almost universally that when people see their name on a roster, people are excited to work with them. Almost universally, that when people see their name on a roster, people are excited to work with them. That's a really good sign. Obviously, in in actual leadership not not a, not a, not a team member situation that could be a bad sign. If people love working with one manager, it might be because they don't ever enforce the rules. But. But usually if you've got a great team, a beloved manager who's also fair, people don't mind doing that. People actually like fault. You know, people like a certain level of rule following and like to know that there's a structure because they know it'll be the same for them as it will be for everyone else. And then and then it's makes it easy to do uh, to do well.
Speaker 2:So, but I don't know if that was a, I don't know if that was enough for that, because it isn't. It's a hard quality for me to define, but um, but I think you can feel it and you can see it and uh, um, it's a certain uh, respect and honor for what people are, people are doing, and also some of it is also just competence, where when people can see that someone is good at something and then also that that being good at something, that skill translates into helping and supporting others, because some people have a especially if you're just talking about, like a service team. Some people are good servers, but all they can focus on is what's exactly in front of them, while some people also have a bigger picture, like they're good at taking care of their guests, but they're also making sure the team is supported. They're also and they don't mind just working hard.
Speaker 2:I guess the other thing I'd say is it's really important to find people that doing a good job just matters to them, whether they're in private or in front of others. There is not a lot of needing to please others. These people are often kind of hard to find, but it's worth their weight in gold if you find someone that if you tell them to count money, they will do it, whether no one's around, and even if they have opportunity to be a thief, they just don't want to be. It just matters to them not to be. Um, uh. That being said, it's always good to have controls for these sorts of things. But, but, in that sort of capacity, finding people with a? Um, when people want to do a good job for themselves, it makes it very easy to believe that they'll do a good job for the company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, especially, it makes it very easy to believe that they'll do a good job for the company, Especially when you, as long as you can, kind of align those goals Totally, so, so many. I mean gosh, we could talk about this all day. Let's dive deeper into your transition into leadership within the same team. How did that? Once you got that title, how did that go for you?
Speaker 2:So I really enjoyed being a lead and I it honestly, the funny thing was leading the team as a server, uh, and training all the servers.
Speaker 2:Um, I found it really easy because I was kind of, I was basically already doing it, um, uh, so that step wasn't a huge transition.
Speaker 2:And then, but about four or five months later, um, the management team we had at the time Four or five months later, the management team we had at the time we lost one of our managers and we went for a little while before.
Speaker 2:I was in management with only two full-time managers at that location and we were very high volume and they were working really long hours, which is something that happens in restaurants, which is fine, but it was six days and one in a double, which is that 60, 70 hours a week, but also there was a lot of being there just to be there and they were overseeing, but especially on their double, it was just the environment and the restaurant and they were really wonderful managers. I don't want to disparage them at all, but the amount they were being asked to do was just leading to an environment that was less than it needed to be, and so this time I went to them and said hey guys, I've been a lead for a while. The gist of it was I feel trusted and respected and I also feel like I could do this.
Speaker 1:If you can get me some keys, I'll shut the restaurant down a couple times a week and then that way, you guys can get 2 full off off days each and we can reduce your hours a lot, but it's not going to be a huge expense to you guys. Um and um, did you?
Speaker 2:get those keys At first I did not. At first I did not get keys. I did. They did say I could do it. But what we first did was the GM at the time gave me her keys. We would transition. She would give me her keys and I would. She didn't. She lived close by and I would run them and put them in her mailbox at night. So we did. We did that for about four or five months and then, and then I got my own set of keys.
Speaker 1:Why did you have to do that for four to five months?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean the, the, the, the, the honest. The honest truth is that they didn't actually ask the owner at the time if I could do this. They just did it because they were so miserable. When he learned of it, he was on board. He and I had a rapport at the time and it was positive, but they just kind of went for it and it ended up being for the best, I think.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it was pretty funny. Did they think that he wouldn't be on board, or were they scared of him?
Speaker 2:Or why don't you think they think that he wouldn't be on board? Or were they scared of him or what? Why don't you think they communicated so, um, so yeah, so in this owner uh, this was the owner operator at the time who is he's no longer with the company Um, but um, uh, uh, he sold his portion a few years ago. Um, but uh, but they were scared of him for sure. Um, he was intense and I they were worried that he would just say no, that this schedule was what they needed and it was too big of an expense or whatever, as owners want to do.
Speaker 1:But I do think in this scenario it made a lot of sense, two shifts a week.
Speaker 2:And then we actually not super long after that, hired another full-time manager and then, not super long after that, hired another part-time manager. So we went from like the smallest team like ever, and there was a kitchen manager, but at the time he also worked on the line, so he really was not a manager. He would come and he would do his orders and then he worked the line. But we ended up with we went from a really small team to a really big team.
Speaker 2:Now, the GM at the time was also expanding into a role to oversee multiple locations. That the so we had some sister restaurants not multiple pharmacy locations at that time, but so there were some. There were some other things going on there, but but, yeah, we went from tiny team to actually a pretty not enormous, but robust management team over the course of the eight months I was in my part-time role and then we had a bunch of turnover all at once where the AGM left, the GM that had been there when I was hired got promoted and the GM elect had to leave the company short notice as well, under less than wonderful circumstances, but that's another story. But then, um, we hired a GM from outside, from the bridge Uh, he was actually from the Bridgestone, from Levy Group and, um, they, they offered me the assistant general manager job. So I went from part-time in January of 2017 to to full-time assistant general manager.
Speaker 1:How did you feel about them bringing out, bringing in an outside GM? How did you feel about them bringing in an outside GM? How did you feel about working with them?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I felt good about it At the time. I definitely did not feel ready to do that on my own, so I had no interest in being head honcho at that time. And there was nobody at the time because of the way things had shaken out, there was nobody I would have hired for the job Not that I was qualified to make that higher than either. So it made a lot of sense. And at the time, uh, one of the sister restaurants is on, that is we're on a. There's like a little set of four properties where we operate in East Nashville and the GM of the it was called the Holland House, which is a speakeasy cocktail bar. The GM of that location actually knew the new GM so and we had a good, we had a great relationship with him and he kind of vouched for him coming in. So I actually felt really comfortable with him coming in and felt really good.
Speaker 2:Outside hires are always tricky because you want to make sure they're. You know it's really great to promote from within when you can to develop talent for all the many reasons because they know you, they know the culture, they know the expectations. That being said, as well, it is really nice from time to time, to inject your business with new life and ideas from the outside, because you can. From promoting from within over much, you can end up being a little insular and too focused on just what you're doing, and people from the outside will bring in fresh ideas, new perspectives. They also sometimes they have bad habits, but they're different bad habits. Some of those don't even translate into your space, so it's it's nice to have a fresh set of eyes.
Speaker 2:Um, and for this guy too as well. He came from a corporate background and we're we're like a true mom and pop even to this day, although we're, we're trying to enter the 21st century and a lot of things, but uh, um, but uh. He brought a lot of that uh, not over rigid, but but uh, but a sort of structured approach from um from his corporate days that I actually thought was really positive for us at the time.
Speaker 1:So what were some of the ideas and fresh perspectives he brought to the table?
Speaker 2:I mean, I mean, some of this stuff is as silly as like um, you know, uh, I mean gosh, it's, some of it is it's almost embarrassing to say, but it's one like you know. I mean, gosh, it's, some of it is it's almost embarrassing to say, but it's one. Like you know, employees shouldn't drink on the clock is one of them. I mean that was, that was like a big one and that was a big fight for us with the staff, but it was. But bam, there was one, you know. There was also like you know, people should be on time and yes, we would do that, but there was like there was a lot of just little like hey, we should actually have a certain, relatively easy to follow set of standards and do that.
Speaker 2:And then we ended up changing POS systems, switching from Aloha to Toast, although that was a process of a few years, but there was a lot of. We didn't really. When he came aboard, we didn't really do an inventory. So he was like we need to do an inventory. So like there's a lot of things there.
Speaker 2:The great thing for me as far as my career was I got to develop most of this stuff with him or do a lot of the work myself. Where he would do it, you'd be like this is what I've done in my career. We would kind of find something there. And so I've implemented several inventory systems Because, you know, some of them weren't a fit fit and we changed and figured it out. But I got to get a lot of hands-on experience in actually implementing and developing some of this stuff, which is great, but also with someone who had done it at several different businesses in his career, because creating stuff from scratch is actually a great way to do something really poorly. It's really great to just say like, hey, these people do this really well, just do what they do and then just mold it to make sense for what you do.
Speaker 1:Totally. There's no original ideas. No, there's not.
Speaker 2:And honestly, yeah, people have. Usually they've troubleshot. It so much for you, Totally.
Speaker 1:Just know what they're doing. Reason right. I'm curious how the how the staff reacted to all these changes. Did you two kind of get together and have a plan and say this is how we're going to roll this stuff out, and or did everybody leave? What was the impact?
Speaker 2:Well, well, no, we actually did not. So it's actually sort of yes and no, now that I'm saying that Most of it was really positive. It's actually sort of yes and no, now that I'm saying that Most of it was really positive. We did hire some new people. Some of them were people that he had had relationships with in his previous jobs. That actually mostly went well, but there was definitely tension from the staff.
Speaker 2:Anytime you bring in your folks, oh he's bringing in his own people and he's going to clean house. Well, we never did that, but people always talk and they just assume. But also anytime there's major change, people just assume that you're going to clean house. They'll just start saying out of nowhere, you've not said anything about it, but they're just like oh, they're going to clean house and change everything and it's like no, and you basically just have to wait it out. But I've also found it's just best to not even talk about it for the most part, because it's just you just don't want to fan the flames and there's actually sometimes even denying. Something like that actually makes people think it even more. So it's just best to just roll. They're going to be weird for two or three weeks and then just move on. But there's a lot of things in business that are like that where, especially when it's just rumors and rumblings of something that's not all that important just keep moving with your day-to-day and people will learn that you're going to be fine.
Speaker 2:Obviously, there are more serious issues that just actually have to be handled when there's actually a problem. When there's not a problem, it's just best to make it make sense, but as far as that. So we implemented a lot of these changes but, to his credit, we implemented most of them pretty slowly. And the way we, it's kind of funny, because you think about this stuff, but we think about the frog metaphor of how you can boil a frog if you slowly raise the temp, but if you throw him in a pot he'll jump out Well, and we don't think of our staff as the frog, we think of the problem. As the frog, we're trying to boil the problem and if you want to do that without losing your staff, you have to change standards slowly and over time.
Speaker 2:Time where if you want people to not be tardy at all, you can go rigid and say no more tardiness, but you're going to fire a ton of people almost certainly if you actually uphold that standard, if you've been lax in the past. But if you actually want to increase people's there, you just have to decide. I'm going to have to have hundreds of conversations about people not being late and do communications over and over again, but if you don't want to lose a bunch of staff and you want to maintain the people you have, you just have to increase standards slowly and surely over time, and usually in stages, and often over the course of several months. It can go quicker than that, but it's hey, you've been late, hey, you've been late, and then you may lose somebody.
Speaker 2:There may be someone who is just so egregiously not respecting the new standards that you just have to move on from them.
Speaker 2:But instead of you know, honestly, if you have a huge swath of people that are tardy regularly or missing shifts regularly, and to the point where, if you did let them go, you would have a hard time staffing your restaurant, especially if it happened all at once. The best way to do it is just to communicate slowly and surely over time and you can solve a problem without actually having to fire a bunch of people, especially if it's something like tardiness or where they're 15 or whatever, minutes late, semi-regularly, you can get to where that is better and you can improve it without having to fire a bunch of people. But again, it's just slowly and surely raising that standard Because if you go, it's like if you go cold turkey, people just don't adjust to that because restaurants, like I was saying earlier, they're habits and if people are in the habit of doing something wrong you have to create a new habit and it just takes what do they say like 60 days for a new habit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 30 to 60 days, so you need to make a goal for your yeah Again.
Speaker 2:Obviously, if someone's stealing from you, that's a no-brainer. You can't slow roll stopping stealing. You have to make drastic changes. But for certain lax service standards where your servers aren't pre-busting enough, you just have to have those constant and repeated conversations about what the standard is, both in the moment and then sit-downs. And then obviously you do have to eventually say hey, if this doesn't improve we're going to have to let you go. But same with Cook's not executing something correctly. It's just constant direct communication and then eventually you'll get to where. Hey, that you'll. You know, honestly, that's crazy thing is when you do and you, it's funny, when you do it that way, the improvement is slow to where it does, it almost happens and you just don't even remember it being that way. But we were talking about a transition.
Speaker 2:With the new, with the new GM, a lot of people loved the changes we were making, because in a lax environment people often get very discouraged by working with team members that aren't doing as much as them, sometimes justly, and sometimes sometimes their impressions of the situation are not correct. But the most important thing about having high standards for the staff, especially when they're uniform, is that you don't discourage your your best performing team members, especially when they're uniform, is that you don't discourage your your best performing team members, people. Burnout is mostly a mentality. Yes, you can be overworked and overtired, but burnout is because you feel like you're putting more in than you're getting back from either the company or your team members, and and and that you know you're constantly, you know, filling up and doing the side duties for the rest of the team and you see other people just like having sidebar conversations all the time. Those things just nag on you and then you are. If you're not rewarding and taking care of those people that are doing the best, they quickly will become discouraged.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, there's a uh, there's been a really positive change in the industry where we want to always make sure, um, we're treating our staff like they're humans, meeting them, um and their emotions and and being valid, and that is really important, and I'm not ever saying we should do that less, but I do think sometimes you can lose sight of the import and the importance of discipline because you you end up, you end up hurting the people that actually are doing the most for you, because you're putting a lot of pressure on them, especially if you cultivate an environment where slackers I guess is what we'll call them get either rewarded or there's.
Speaker 2:Honestly, you end up rewarding and encouraging people to do less because, oh, hey, if I do less, no one cares, I still get great shifts, I still get my hours, I still, you know, oh, I still got a raise, you know because I and you know. So, hey, it doesn't matter that I'm doing doing the wrong thing. So, and then eventually, what you'll find and it should be an alarm bell for you, especially if they're people that never had attitude problems If your best employees are quitting to for a for a position, they're not getting promoted in another job or they're not leaving for a better position, they're leaving laterally or even down, and these are one of your best team members. That's always got to be alarm bells that, hey, I'm not taking care of the people that are taking care of me.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm probably allowing behavior from their coworkers that is causing work to not be an enjoyable place assuming there's not literally some other issue and I think, that's something we've found, a lot, but yeah.
Speaker 1:That's great. No, that's awesome. Self-reflection that's a beautiful point too. Let's talk about your journey from AGM into GM and director of operations. What did that path look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so well. And before that too, in that first year, I took over the beverage program as well which is some of the most enjoyable time at the company.
Speaker 2:We had a robust German and craft beer program and a really positive reputation, so it was actually kind of nerve wracking to take over that, but it was really enjoyable, and we did a lot of really cool things, Got some specialty lines put in, and we brought in some brewery, some beverages from Europe that had never been in the States before. That was really enjoyable, and I that was good. So from there, though, fast forward to 2021, the GM that we had hired moved on in July of 2021. And I was offered the position to replace him.
Speaker 1:Can I ask why he moved on Daniel?
Speaker 2:You know, he had been with us for five years or four years, am I counting wrong and I think it was just. I think for him it was just time for a change. You know places I've been with the company obviously a long time but places get stale and then I, and then you know, and I think I don't want to say too much, but I don't know, I don't know if he and the rest of leadership saw eye to eye on some things maybe, and then it was just time to make a change, I think. So we had also just opened the, we had just opened the downtown location. So I think, I think, based on my conversations with him, if we hadn't been doing that, I think he would have left sooner. But I think he felt like it was his, he felt obligated to see that getting open. And then, once that was done, he was like OK, I'm ready to, ready to move on.
Speaker 1:Got it OK, so he moved on and then what happened?
Speaker 2:And yeah, so then I was offered the position and to take over as the general manager there, which was a nice step up the position, and to take over as the general manager there, which was a nice step up. We had some discussions about running everything, but with me coming from the assistant general manager's role, I felt comfortable making that full step up. But we had a conversation and we decided, hey, let's have you focus on East. And because we're the larger of the two locations, we decided, hey, let's just, let's, let's have you focus on East. And you can. You know, because you were the larger of the two locations, I should be able, we can help and support the other, but let's, let's keep that focus there. And I felt good about that at the time as well, and so that first year went really well.
Speaker 2:We were still so during during the COVID years, we had switched to also a kind of counter service order get a number model at East Nashville, and so in May of 2021, we had just switched back to full service, which was actually really challenging. And so six weeks into doing that, I got promoted, which was great. But those first four or five months were really, really challenging as we reestablished habits, sought to hire new people. We were never super hurt by the hiring crisis, but finding great employees we could always find people, but finding really excellent people was always a challenge. And then we also were dealing with a lot of call-outs. That was something I heard from other people that the call-out number spiked. Some of that was because people were ill from time to time, but there were just other reasons and we've got that down now. But in 2021 and 2022, it was just kind of insane. But it was also like it was another thing that we felt like, on a certain level, we just had to deal with it until we could find people that were accountable, because it was like it was another thing that we felt like, on a certain level, we just had to deal with it until we could find people that were accountable, because it was like it's better to have them half the week than none of the week. Obviously, half is overstating it, but it was. You kind of sometimes have to make those calls.
Speaker 2:All that being said, I did that for a year at the GM and I felt like we really got back to doing what we were best at. It took a while, but we kind of got back into a great uh, a great pattern and and doing, uh, doing really well. And then, um, we had a, we had a GM for the uh, uh, the food hall location. For the year I was, I was GM at East and then, uh, the owner asked me to be oversee everything. Um, I would still be the GM at East, but, um, but oversee all the locations. Um, which was a great next step and kind of uh and and it was, it was really kind of a wonderful timing the way everything went.
Speaker 2:Um, for me personally and I think also for the company, and um and uh, so I, I went from, I helped get open the, the downtown location, but then I went, I didn't really have to do anything directly with them for about a year, um, other than you know, you know, be a sounding board and and help, and we did have some employees going back and forth a little bit, so there was some stuff to deal with there, but, um, but then, you know, got involved with that and took over that. And then, uh, we opened the airport location in 2023, january 2023, um, which is a co-production with a specialist in airport concession, so don't have to directly oversee. But it was a lot of work to get that off the ground um and set up and then it was. It was a bunch of work still the first six months while while again they we got, we we got to where they were representing us correctly and now it's in a really good place and kind of goes on autopilot. But yeah, that was that few years.
Speaker 2:But going multi-location as far as managing was it is really challenging. Most of the challenges are fun, but it's always a challenge. To be more efficient, to be, you know, to be better, you have to communicate really well. You have to be able to also communicate by a proxy a lot, either by hey telling you know you telling someone to tell someone. Also, you got to get really good at email. So if you're not good at email, you know multi-locations maybe not for you, you know.
Speaker 1:But that's why it's always good. That's so true, daniel, and I totally can relate to this making that move from GM to regional, in my case, or director of operations. But what was the biggest challenge for you moving from GM into this director of operations role, where you were overseeing all these different concepts Different but similar concepts?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. But similar concepts Um, that's a great question. Um, prob. I mean, I'm trying to think of something that's more abstract to the actual nature of running to the.
Speaker 2:The hardest thing was that the food hall location was really not in a good space when I took over it. Uh, quite literally, and um, and that that took a while and uh, we, we, we did several different things. Um, it got better over time. But also I tried to operate from the in a similar way that uh, uh, my predecessor at the east location did, where I, I, we, changed the standards, uh, steadily, but I also, I didn't want to clean house. There's, there's part of me that kind of wishes I had, because I would have actually, probably, it probably would have saved me some headaches.
Speaker 2:But I also, I just don't ever feel good about like, just coming in and wiping the slate clean and then bringing in all new people, um, but also, I, I just like to give people the chance to do better and I like to believe that people with coaching and direction can improve and sometimes they do. So it's, you know, and honestly, it feels like more often than not they don't, but the success story of the one person that sticks with you and actually changes who they are. It's worth 10 people that don't. It really is. It's just so satisfying and rewarding and it's great for your business. It's great like practically speaking.
Speaker 2:So it's I always, even though it's sometimes I often say this like I often wish I was a lot meaner than I was, because I feel like I make problems for myself by being nice sometimes but and I don't love the way that sounds kind of, but it just sometimes ends up being that way but I try to work with people, try to communicate, and that was a challenge because we had gotten to a place where there weren't good habits at the food hall location, and so it was a big adjustment.
Speaker 2:And that's where that's why I feel like I almost wish I had made some more drastic moves initially, because there were things were and honestly, honestly, things were worse than I thought they were when I, when I, when I started managing it. So we worked through some through and with some supervisors, we did make some changes, but most of them we let happen organically or over a certain amount of time. But most of them we let happen organically or over a certain amount of time. And then, but then we did. Eventually, about six or seven months later, we ended up hiring a general manager for that location that I oversee. She worked with us for a year or about 14, 15 months and she actually recently recently moved on to other things and we transitioned one of one of my full time managers from the East National location, who has a lot of experience and is wonderful over that location now and we're about a month and a half into doing that and that's going really well so far.
Speaker 1:So that's great. What's your so? You've turned that around. It's amazing. No, that's a lot of work, kudos kind of thing that.
Speaker 2:So for us from either downtown or east, especially east- there are a lot of new people in the city that haven't, and when you serve as many burgers as we do, there will be people that have come in and not had a great experience, or there will be people that tried you but you were really busy and they had to wait an hour, or they or they used to come four or five times a year, um, and you know. But they live out, they live outside the city and there's tons of new restaurants opening. So, hey, they just don't get outside of their neighborhood anymore, when you know, 10 years ago there wasn't anything in their neighborhood that they wanted to eat. So for us, it's getting back in front of people's faces, making them remember us. We're still very successful, we still see a lot of customers every week, but, but I still feel like we could do more than we are doing, and a lot of that is just either.
Speaker 2:If you had a negative interaction at some point in the past, that meant people were like, hey, I'm not going to come back. It's hey, how do we encourage them? How do we get back in front of them? But it's more than that. It's really because we were so busy. We've installed a lot of new technology, from using Toast, from using Talk for waitlist and some limited reservations and a few other features to make sure people can get in and out quickly. Because that was just what I heard so often was like, oh, I love the pharmacy, I never go, it's too busy. And being too busy can end up being a curse, because then it's like, obviously, while you're really busy it's great, but then eventually there's this. There's sort of a market equilibrium where people are like, well, I'm just going to go somewhere else because I don't want to wait however long, which I totally understand, totally, and that puts a lot of pressure on making sure that the experience is totally worth the wait, right, yes, yes, Because then you can actually have a totally.
Speaker 2:You can have a totally fine, totally wonderful experience for someone. But because they sat for an hour one, they were too hungry by the time they ate, so then they're just in a bad mood. We have actually it's actually something we and we don't deal with this quite as often. But I used to have to tell our servers guys, your customers are not bad people, they are just hungry, they're hangry.
Speaker 1:They're hangry. They are hangry yeah.
Speaker 2:And we have. They'll say, yeah, sometimes you literally get the food on them and it's like their personality flips.
Speaker 1:It's like crazy. It's so true. Yeah, I've definitely experienced that a lot in my career too.
Speaker 2:I love it. It's pretty funny, but it's like sure, you know people are being like whoa, you're like energy is insane, yeah, but it's especially bad and this, it, it's, it's. It's when usually one it's a family and it's like either mom or dad was like I really want to eat there, but the other one was like really, and then they're like and we have to wait, what the like, what is going on, and then yeah, and then then that that party member of the group is always like, but then once they eat, they're usually fine, but until then it's yeah. But all that being said, so we've been working with a PR team and a few other things and doing some different levels of marketing, which we hadn't done in the past. We still get a lot from word of mouth because we have a really great reputation, but you know, we just the thing we've talked about a lot is that maybe you did used to eat with us once a month, um, and you live, you know, outside the city, in Franklin or whatever, which is a, which is a, uh, a city, outside, uh, not far, but outside of Nashville. You know you're probably not going to come back once a month and make that drive like you used to, just the way the environment is. But we just want to see people at least come. Come see us twice a year, you know, when you're doing something, drive up and if we, if we can get back being open for 14, almost 14 years, if we can get more people, just hey, we're a destination spot, even for people in the region, not just from out of town. If you'll just come back and see us every once in a while, that's, you know, that's all we want and we, you know, we, we would love that. We have a large, a large base.
Speaker 2:So come, um, we've put a lot of effort into making sure what we're doing is, is is really special for guests while also being pretty, like, uh, uh, pretty affordable. Our prices have gone up, like a lot of people's, but we've really worked hard to to have them capped where, um, our, our, our burger and fries and our portions are very generous at $12. So it's like, hey, you know there's. I look at a lot of burger menus and the burger is 15, 16 bucks with the side, um, so, again, that's, you know, and you know we're. We're always investigating what makes sense and the prices are always fluctuating. So we're, you know, we're always looking at that, so, but that's, that's something where we want to be a great value, but we also want to offer a great experience.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's um which I, that's what everybody wants to do, but for us, with we have about, we have about 400 seats when it's um, when the weather's nice. So we're not, we're not a small, not a small establishment. So, but all that being said, um, that's probably the biggest challenge. Um, because downsizing is never fun. Um, even if you find a very healthy equilibrium for your business, the goal is always to grow. Um, and as a company, we have done that between the two locations. We're doing very healthy. But hey, you know, it's like, you know there are empty seats at times. So like let's, let's just get these as full as we can, let's get these as full as we can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's real estate. That's great. I love that. I love that you're, I love that you're and you guys do so many fun marketing things. I mean for anybody listening, go check out their website. Some of the events and just the marketing that you're doing around the drive-thru series and honoring your community is just beautiful, and I definitely want to have you back so we can talk about that, because you guys are super creative and innovative, and I love that.
Speaker 1:I know we're getting close here to wrapping up, so I'd love to ask you how are you developing yourself as a leader in your director of operations position?
Speaker 2:Wow, that is another great question. One of the big things I do is I try to take feedback from especially my management team very seriously about myself or about things, but also a lot of times because it's uncomfortable to tell your boss, hey, I don't like this about you. I try to engender an environment where they feel comfortable to do that, where I'd like to have that environment. That's also way easier said than done and I have a great relationship with my manager still. But I also try to make sure and realize that if they have an issue with something, that, without being too hard on myself, if there's an issue in the restaurant, it's my fault. And to figure out where in my workflow and where in the, in the, in the business we've created together, where is the failing and how do I? How do I fix that? And not in the short term, but but basically how do we make the problem go away? Um, fixing something in the short term is usually very easy. Fixing it forever is usually a little bit harder, um. So I try to be very honest and self-reflective about about what I'm doing there, by listening to the feedback and then figuring out ways to both support them and do that. So that's kind of step one as far as literally the restaurant Outside of there.
Speaker 2:One of the things that's funny that I've done a lot of is I do quite a bit of meditating and do, and then I also really enjoy taking long walks as I have time to do them, and I've just found those are really important for my mental state and I know meditation has grown in popularity. But I've found some, some practices that are rewarding and valuable to me and I've also found that I couldn't probably point to some specific instances, but a lot of times if I can kind of clear my head, either on a walk or clear my head in a meditative state, I'm able to. A lot of times the solution to a problem will just kind of become obvious, but it's usually by not trying to actually fix it, it's usually trying to get away from it just enough to let things kind of reveal themselves. And then also from there I've also tried to get back into some things I love, because I've been, I was really swamped with work for a long time and then you, you know, you watch football or whatever when you have time, and which is great, or you know, you, you know, you just kind of casually relax and watch shows.
Speaker 2:I've tried to do a little bit more in the hobby thing, cause I've also found that having something outside of work that actually matters, that you can fit in it, actually makes it easier to get back and work and invest in it, and that's that's how I've been able to stave off some feelings of burnout that I've had at times or whatever you know. So that was kind of long winded, but I would. I would just encourage anyone feeling that find a few things you can invest in. I can highly recommend both meditating and walking, but also, like everyone's different, find some things that can can de-stress, clear your mind and hopefully help you kind of kind of reveal reveal what you should do in a situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. I'm huge advocates for all of those things around setting boundaries and burnout and meditation and spending time outside in nature Exactly what you said create space for you mentally so that problems can come into your mind. The solutions naturally flow in and your intuition starts to build, which just makes everything better in your life. So, Daniel, you're amazing. I know just in having the conversations with you you care so much about people and creating a really positive experience and environment for your guests and your team, and that just so radiates from you and just who you are and your persona.
Speaker 2:So I really appreciate that, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for being here. Anybody that's listening, please go check out Pharmacy Burger. It's just an incredible story. The story behind the name is great. There's just so much more we could talk about today, but we'll bring Daniel back another time. Go check out Pharmacy Burger on Instagram, at the Pharmacy Nashville, and on Facebook as well, and that's going to do it for us this week. Please be sure to share this show with any leaders that you know in the restaurant industry that could benefit. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week.