The Leadwell Podcast

Lead a Legacy: Developing Leadership that Lasts - w. Josh Parnell

• Jon Kidwell • Season 2 • Episode 6

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Imagine carving a path that leaves a trail of inspiration for others to follow. That's the essence of leadership that endures, a theme we unpack with Josh Parnell, a leadership coach with an extraordinary journey from film school to the Air Force. Together, we explore the nuanced art of crafting a legacy, emphasizing adaptability and intention in decision-making. Our conversation reveals how the trials and triumphs of Josh's experiences have cemented his belief in leadership that transcends daily tasks to forge a lasting impact in all facets of life.

Have you ever been weighed down by the relentless pull of negative thoughts? You're not alone. In this episode, we confront this challenge head-on, examining the transformative power of journaling and the science-backed success of writing down goals. Josh shares personal anecdotes from his own goal-setting journey, stressing the importance of actionable steps over distant objectives. We dissect the concept of intentional change, asserting that the most significant shifts stem from the small, deliberate actions we take today.

Lastly, we guide you through the 'J Curve' of growth, a path marked by initial setbacks that pave the way to success. By employing thoughtful communication strategies, leaders can shepherd their teams through this period of discomfort, fostering an environment rich in safety and trust. Drawing parallels with the influential coaching styles of the NFL, we dissect the nuances of servant leadership and the crucial distinction between empathetic listening and mere hearing. It's a candid discussion about the ripple effects of leadership and the role communication plays in shaping a legacy that resonates beyond the boardroom.

Connect with Josh and grab his book:

Josh Parnell | LinkedIn
Josh Parnell | Email
Lead a Legacy Book | Amazon
Limitless Leadership | Website

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Order your copy of Jon's book at RedefineYourServantLeadership.com, and don't forget to utilize the additional resources, or purchase access to the Workbook and Coaching Videos.

Send your Leadership and Business questions to Jon at podcast@leadwell.com.

For more information visit https://leadwell.com

The Leadwell Podcast gives mission-driven leaders principled and practical advice to do just that, lead well.

In each episode, your host Jon Kidwell, interviews leaders with great stories, to share strategies that help leaders navigate complex, confusing, and often down-right challenging leadership, personal growth, business, and workplace culture situations.

Jon is a nonprofit executive turned coach, speaker, author, and CEO of a leadership development company. In working with nonprofits and businesses, big and small, he realized the unique challenges leaders face when they are committed to keeping the mission and people the top priority. Those leaders’ commitment to their principles and the people they lead, plus seeing the need for more leaders who strive to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, is what inspired Jon to start a leadership development company dedicated to the success of mission-driven leaders and their organiza...

The Legacy of Leadership

Jon Kidwell

Welcome to the Lead Well podcast, the podcast where we interview mission-driven leaders who are doing it well. We ask them what they're doing and how they're doing it to help you lead your business and your people well, have you ever thought about the legacy that you're leaving as a leader? Many of us don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about that, and yet that's one of the keys of leading is that we are reproducing and replicating ourselves and helping people to achieve a big old shared purpose. And today's guest, josh Parnell, is the author of Leading a Legacy and he is the founder of Limitless Leadership. He is a leadership coach and he has been helping develop leaders for over 20 years.

Jon Kidwell

While it may have started with a fun story about film school, the United States Air Force and everything in between, he's going to walk us through how we got here today and how we can lead a legacy where we are at work, in life, with the people around us. Let's jump right in with Josh. Josh, my friend, I am so glad that you are here with us today on the Leadwell Podcast. I cannot wait to dive in and, as everybody else can see, we are on location because if you have not yet watched Josh and I on his podcast. You need to do that right.

Josh Parnell

This is the trade.

Jon Kidwell

So thank you for being here and trading. It's such a great thing to be able to get to know you better. Have you on the podcast.

Josh Parnell

John. Thank you, man. Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here and certainly a pleasure. I'm excited to do this with you.

Jon Kidwell

So I'm going to ask Josh all about his book Leading a Legacy, and you all can get it. You can get it on Amazon. I'll let Josh tell you more about wherever you can get it elsewhere. But one of the things that I thought was really cool that you all heard in the opening is how you got into the military, and I am just. I am grateful for your service, Thank you.

Jon Kidwell

And I love the different stories of what people pick up through that and how they've kind of worked through that. So if you wouldn't mind just sharing with everybody a little bit of that journey, especially kind of that military lens to all of the wonderful family that you have and how we're here today, Of course.

Josh Parnell

Well, man, I appreciate the opportunity to share and once again, thank you for having me on. Yeah, you know, my journey begins after high school. I had hopes and dreams and aspirations of going into Hollywood to become the next Steven Spielberg. So clearly that did not happen. But back then I had a strong interest in filmmaking and I found out that the University of North Texas in Denton, near Dallas, had a great radio, TV and film program. So I went to UNT and I planned on being there for four years. But after a year and a half, UNT said hey, Josh, thanks for playing, but your grades are terrible.

Jon Kidwell

You need to leave. We've learned just enough to do podcasts at the level that we do them right, exactly right.

Josh Parnell

So clearly I had a lot of growing up to do. I wasn't making school a priority. I knew that I couldn't go back to school, I didn't want to come back home. But this was around time that 9-11 happened and that really impacted me on a pretty great level, and so I decided to look into the military and I found out that videography was a career field available in the Air Force. So I went to my nearest Air Force recruiter's office and walked in and introduced myself and I said, hey, you know I have an interest in filmmaking. He said well, great, we have videography available. He said now, just so. You know it's not available right now, but when you get into basic training it will be. All you got to do is sign the dotted line and I was like all right, let's do this, sign me up Again. Unt dismissed me for a reason right. So I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but I took him for his word and I signed the dotted line without a guaranteed job, expecting to go into the Air Force to eventually become a filmmaker in the Air Force.

Josh Parnell

But of course, when I got into the Air Force, videography was still not available. So, much to my dismay, I was going to be doing something different, but I said that's okay. This was the first time I had a choice to make. I had a decision to make and recognize look, everything happens for a reason. I think we've all heard the phrase if you want to make God laugh, tell him what your plans are. And he got a good chuckle out of my plans and pretty quickly course corrected me accordingly. Now an important part of the story is that as I get into basic training, everyone fires the M16. And at the time I think now it's the M4, but at the time it was the M16 rifle and I had never shot a weapon in my life. So I'm going into basic training.

Jon Kidwell

What are you talking about Like you're in Texas, like I'm in Texas? You don't just walk around with this in your pocket.

Josh Parnell

Hey, hey, don't let the looks fool you. If you're watching this episode, you know I have a beard. I probably look like I go hunting quite a bit. I've actually never hunted a day in my life.

Jon Kidwell

So newsflash for everyone that's not in Texas. That is one of the things that is very common, but neither one of us actually go into any of those things.

Josh Parnell

Hey, you know, I grew up playing sports. That was something that that that really was a passion of mine, but I had never shot a weapon, and so I got pretty minimal instruction in basic training and I tried my best, but I was a bad shot. I mean, you know, in order to become I wonder why? Right? Well, in order to become an expert marksman in in with the M16, you have to hit the target or specific parts of the target at least 45 times or more out of 50 rounds. And I'll tell you john the, the range instructor, got so frustrated with me that he threw an extra 30 round magazine in my rifle, so I did score a 45. However, it was out of 80 rounds.

Josh Parnell

So the only people who knew that I shot 80 rounds were me and the range instructor, because even on my score sheet it showed a 45 out of 50. So I jokingly say that I'm still technically the worst expert marksman in the history of the Air Force. But that's an important part of the story, because when it came time for them to determine what career field I was going to go into, they said well, you're an expert marksman, you're going to be a cop, which is security forces and I'm thinking like that's not really my personality.

Josh Parnell

I mean, can we do something different than security forces? And they're like get out of here, you're going to be a cop. And so, again, I have a decision to make. Right, we know that not every day is going to be a good day, but we can find the good in every day. I was not excited about being in security forces, but once again, I knew that everything is happening for a reason, and I learned then and there also, that the two things that we can control in our life every day is our attitude and our effort. And so I'm not saying that it's easy, but I'm saying it's possible. I wasn't excited about what was to come because that wasn't what I was planning on doing, but God, of course, course, corrected me, which I'm thankful for, you know, to this day. But ultimately I said you know what? Here's the good news If I'm finding the good in every day. You know we've heard the phrase when it rains, it pours. We can also say when it rains, look for rainbows. And if I'm looking for rainbows, here's what I know.

Josh Parnell

I also joined to travel and I thought you know what Every base needs a cop, so I can still go to Germany, italy, belgium, spain. I wanted to go to Europe, right, I wanted to go overseas, get some culture under my belt. But once again, john, the Air Force had other plans. Instead, they sent me to beautiful Minot, north Dakota. John, at this point I'm thinking all right, somebody does not like me in the air force. I joined to be a filmmaker in Italy and instead I'm a cop in North Dakota.

Jon Kidwell

But I will tell you, man, you know, in all seriousness, I am I'm sorry, I'm laughing because I have a very dear friend who was in Minot flying bombers, wow and what I know about Minot is the nearest target is two hours away. So for those of us that can't contextualize what might be going on in Minot and we're too young to fully comprehend the Fargo movie, just know that your nearest target is two hour drive.

Josh Parnell

I'll tell you, man, it was a culture shock, to say the least. I wanted to get some culture under my belt, but that's not the culture I was looking for.

Jon Kidwell

So I'll say that, okay, so if we could, before we go on, I want to pull because so many of us especially lately, especially for the listeners we work in organizations, we're mid-level executives, we're managers, we're leaders, and sometimes organizations have different ideas than what I have, and that's a lot of what I heard in your story is, university had a different plan for me than I had for me, that the military had this, that I may have been bait and switched, and then I find myself as a cop and, okay, you're talking now to the manager, to that mid-level executive, maybe to someone that's a CEO, that's kind of quote, unquote, topped out, and maybe they got to switch industries or they're being told they got to switch industries. What, what lesson and kind of what would you tell them from your story on how to have the attitude, the effort and to kind of take control of where you are inside of places?

Josh Parnell

you might be moved that you don't. You don't think you want to go. You just said the key word control. Focus on what you can control and try your best not to worry about what you can't control. You know what I could have controlled when I was at UNT my grades right. I mean I could have controlled that. If I had done a little more research, I could have controlled what career field I was going to get into in the Air Force. There's certainly learning curves that we're going to go through. We're going to talk about a learning curve here in a bit. But there's learning curves that we go through. But ultimately, trust the process. Focus on what you can control. Invest in yourself, pour into yourself. Hire a mentor, hire a coach. Find someone who's willing to give you the hard truth.

Jon Kidwell

Find someone who's willing to help you with perspective, because with perspective, the way that we view things drives the way that we do things, but ultimately focus on what you can control and try your best not to worry about what you can't control.

Jon Kidwell

Yeah, that is so, so good, and just from your attitude, and one that has chosen to move and been moved, I think, going into it, I had the encouragement once from someone that said focus on the work and doing the work that you can do and that you want to do, and it goes back to your attitude thing, right. So okay, if you want to go there, how do you tie it in with your ultimate kind of goals and where you might be going? Sure, how can you flip this to be a time of learning, of paid practice, of whatever it might be for what you got coming? Because your attitude just vibes off of it so much and I get it so much when I read through the book, especially that story. Way fun to hear live. I'm so glad you all got to because it's there. But talking to us about leading a legacy which you got to take control and ownership of the legacy you want to lead, what is the theme and what you hope people pull out of that book?

Challenging Negative Thoughts and Goal Setting

Josh Parnell

Sure. So the subtitle of the book is how to Live Today to Make an Impact for Tomorrow and for a lot of coaches whether you're coaching people in leadership, whether you're coaching people in finance, whether you're a fitness coach a lot of coaches need to begin with mindset, because what we know is that our thoughts will dictate our feelings, and our feelings will dictate our actions, and our actions will dictate our legacy. So if we want to change our legacy, it begins with our thoughts. Here's the problem, though. Studies show that humans have up to 60,000 thoughts per day. I just had seven.

Jon Kidwell

There you go Right.

Josh Parnell

Hey, let the rest of the day go by, because you're going to have a lot more. But 60,000 a day. And studies also show that 80% of those thoughts are negative and 90% of those thoughts are repetitive. So it's no wonder why we regularly experience stress and worry and doubt and concern and anxiety and fear.

Jon Kidwell

Can you say that was a? Can you say that again? Because that was powerful. How many, how many thoughts are negative?

Josh Parnell

80% of our 60,000 of 60,000.

Jon Kidwell

And then this one was the key to me when I think about when I'm stuck in a loop. What did you just say about the?

Josh Parnell

90% of those thoughts, oh my goodness.

Josh Parnell

And so, a lot of listeners, you can think to your own thoughts and, yeah, like I get it now, like I understand, and you know, we saw an uptick in anxiety in 2020 when COVID hit right, and so, for a lot of us, we recognize how these thoughts. Of course, we're going to have anxiety and stress if we don't know how to manage our thoughts, but we also know that fear is typically the root of a lot of the thoughts that stem from limiting beliefs, and we know that fear is simply false evidence appearing real and, as our boy John Acuff would say, we know that one of the greatest mistakes any of us can make is assuming all of our thoughts are true, and so we're always gonna find evidence in the things that we believe. How can we start shifting a paradigm and challenging the thoughts that we're having? We've talked before about how it's so important to ask questions. Ask questions of those that we're leading, but also asking questions of ourselves. Start challenging the thoughts that we're having by asking questions about those thoughts. It's almost like this verbalization of journaling. I'm a big believer in journaling, which I talk about in chapter one of the book, and with journaling, the things that we write are the things that we invite. So I'm going to share another stat with you that's really eye-opening for a lot of folks. We have a 42% more likely chance of achieving our goals by simply writing them down. And when I say we're writing goals down, but we're also writing down our thoughts. By doing so, we're able to get clarity and direction through the process.

Josh Parnell

I want to take a step back for a second, john, and share how a goal of mine was to go to UNT, and another goal of mine was to go to Hollywood, to be the next Steven Spielberg, to go into filmmaking in the Air Force. All of these are easy to set goals on. Oh, what do you want to do? This is what I want to do. Boom, just set a goal, just set four goals right.

Josh Parnell

Where I failed when I was younger was, you know, in the book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, stephen Covey talks about beginning with the end in mind, and the key is beginning, because my end in mind was Hollywood. My end in mind was filmmaking. My end in mind was fill in the blank. Where I failed was shifting my focus from the end in mind to the steps that I need to take in order to get there and this is where a lot of folks make mistakes on is what's your goal? I want to lose weight and eat healthy right, that's the number one new year's resolution every single year, right? So how are we going to do that? This is where we need to stay focused on the steps that we take in order to get here, but too many of us are so caught up and just creating the goal and almost like a wishful thinking yeah, and, and so the opportunity is to you're trying you mean manifesting it, you're trying.

Jon Kidwell

Hey, there you go, yeah, yeah, a more a're manifesting it.

Josh Parnell

You're trying to manifest it. There you go. Yeah, A better way to say it, yeah, I'm going to manifest this weight loss this year, right, but this is an opportunity area that a lot of us don't capture, which is what you said earlier putting in the work. We've got to do the work.

Jon Kidwell

Yeah, wow, I think that was a great tie back into how do I live today with small steps, which you and I are huge fans of. Right, and we keep pulling on the thread that if you haven't yet watched the episode on Josh Parnell leadership podcast, you need to go do that. You just pair really well together. The only problem is you get to listen to both of us, but that's also a good thing. So, so there you go, but back into this and what you talked about in the subtitle live. There you go, but back into this and what you talked about in the subtitle live today to make an impact for tomorrow.

Jon Kidwell

And you just talked about all of these baby steps and I'm I'm thinking specifically around the chapter of effect change yes, and drawn back into that ceo that's looking and saying the things like this is a big ship and I don't know if we can turn the big ship. And if we do take the big ship, it takes time, right, like we've all heard that type of or you're, you're in the middle of the organization, saying look, josh, like I'm trying to meet the needs of my team, serve them well, and I'm also getting it from above with my leaders and you, you want me to affect change and I'm just trying to get through the day. Yeah, Right, so what can I start focusing on and how can I start doing this and affecting change from where I am today?

Josh Parnell

Great question, John. So intentionality, intentionality plus time spent equals value received and intentionality.

Jon Kidwell

Okay, so I'm thinking about what I'm doing. I'm you're, you're baking into me that I have to think about what I want to do. Kind of begin with the end of mine.

Josh Parnell

Yeah.

Jon Kidwell

Time spent so um with my team in research and my PB and J right Pause books in journal or prayer, bible and journal in the morning, whatever that is. Like you're telling me, I got to do these things, I got to spend time in that, and then the value is what is produced Ultimately you get the value that, but here's what is produced Ultimately.

Josh Parnell

you get the value, but here's. Here's the thing. A lot of us we start out intentionally and we start out investing in the time, but we trail off, and that's really what a lot of chapter five affecting change talks about.

Jon Kidwell

Well then, help us because, like you said and you and I know this cause, we both do trainings If you don't do anything with the training within 48 hours is gone, you just it's not going to happen. And if there's not something to supplement it, if we're not following up, if we're not inviting coaching, if we're not doing some of those things to help with the application and you do something about it, the diminishing value is still there, right? So this is, this is everywhere. Sure, help us, take that intentionality and keep it on the tracks.

Josh Parnell

Yeah Well you know, with training, you know, we know that the fortune is in the followup, and so, for a lot of us, we go to training and that's great, but, to your point, 70% of what you got today is forgotten tomorrow and 90% is forgotten in 30 days. So what are you doing with the, with the content and the curriculum that you just received? What are you doing to focus on affecting change through new information? You know, I begin the chapter by asking a question, and the question is would you rather that I give you $1 million in cash, tax-free, in hand right now, john?

Jon Kidwell

I'm tempted. I'm tempted right.

Josh Parnell

Or I give you one penny that's going to duplicate in value each day over the course of the next 30 days. So just for-.

Jon Kidwell

This is like that old marshmallow test Like, do you? Want one marshmallow now, or do you want two marshmallows later? This is what I'm feeling, like you're asking me.

Josh Parnell

Well, I want to make sure I'm being clear with the audience. So today it's one cent, tomorrow it's two cents, day three it's four cents, eight cents, 16 cents and so forth and so on. So which of those would you take a million dollars right now? But what if I die on day four, josh? Then you probably should take a million dollars four days ago. All right, yeah.

Jon Kidwell

Yeah, but this is the, this is the real poll, right, and we're talking about compound interest and that type of thing, Right? But it's I'm sitting here and thinking like, well, it depends, like I could do a lot of things with those million dollars Exactly. And uh, and I know where you're trying to build to. Yeah, I do know, yeah, so help me want that piece of it. Of course I want to take the penny, of course.

Josh Parnell

So why do I?

Jon Kidwell

want to take the penny and tell me how much it's going to be worth to me.

Josh Parnell

Absolutely. Well, you know, uh, disparity in $1 million versus a compounding penny, to where the listener's probably thinking, well, there's got to be a catch here, or I feel like it's the penny, but it just doesn't mathematically make sense right now, without me seeing the chart. But if you do see the chart in chapter five of the book, you'll see that just 10 days later, 10 days ago, you could have had a million dollars. 10 days later you're only at $5.12. And another 10 days after that you're at $5,242. But here's where what you shared earlier compound interest, the compound effect takes place day 27. You're at $671,000. The next day you're at 1.3 and some change. By day 30, John, you're at $5.3 million. 30 days.

Jon Kidwell

Not 30 years, right 30 days, because all of our retirement people tell us after 30 years you'll be a millionaire. You're telling me 30 days of a doubling penny or a doubling value Right, and all of a sudden, 30 days in. I'm well beyond $5.3 million 5X that return.

Josh Parnell

It's crazy to think right, but here's the thing. This is where the intentionality plus the time spent equals value received. I want to go back to losing weight and eating healthy. Every year, the number one New Year's resolution for resolutioners is to lose weight and eat healthy, which I think is that it's about 25% of resolutioners want to lose weight and eat healthy. So if we're putting ourselves into 25%, what are some things that we're going to start doing in order to lose weight and eat healthy? We're going to go get a gym membership if we don't already have one, so we're going to spend money on a gym membership. We're going to replace a lot of our sugary, starchy foods in our fridge and pantry and so forth with the sugar-free, the calorie-free, carb-free products that are going to taste like cardboard, but we're going to grin and bear it.

Josh Parnell

Hey we're trying to get six-pack abs. Hey man, crunchy granola all the way, let's do this, so we're going to hey, you know what, John.

Jon Kidwell

Until nighttime. Then it's ice cream time.

Josh Parnell

I'm going to go buy new running shoes because'm going to start meal prepping. These are all the things that I'm going to start doing. Oh, I found a treadmill on Craigslist. I bought that too right? I'm doing all these things and I haven't even started working out yet, and so then we're going to start working out, we're going to wake up a little bit earlier each day, we're going to start meal prepping, we're going to go to the gym and we do fine for the first week or two, but what happens is life. Life happens For a lot of us. We're trying to make this massive 180-degree shift overnight and we know that ultimately, that's not sustainable.

Josh Parnell

There is literally a day in the year, called Quitter's Day, which falls on the second Friday in January Because, statistically speaking, by the second Friday in January, over half of the New Year's resolutioners have already quit their New Year's resolutions. And so when I talk about how, how important it is to recognize the learning curve and to go through things in order to grow through things, if we're going back to let's, let's step back for a second and look at the chart on in chapter five On day 20, we're only at $20. So so keep in mind this is like if we're, if we're shifting to our own life and we tried to work out, need healthy, I'm sorry. On day 12, we're shifting to our own life and we tried to work out and eat healthy, I'm sorry. On day 12, we're at $20.

Josh Parnell

By the way, the reason I'm saying 12 is because on this year, quitter's Day fell on January 12th. So on January 12th, that's Quitter's Day. This year, if I'm looking at the chart, I'm only at $20 on day 12. Yeah, that's not very encouraging and it's not yet a million dollars. It's not. And this is why people quit, because we overestimate what we can accomplish in a month, but we underestimate what we can accomplish in a year, or five years, or 10 years.

Navigating the J Curve Through Communication

Josh Parnell

Or 30 days, or 30 days because intentionality plus time spent equals value received. So this falls in line with the J curve. We talk about a J curve and what the J curve looks like is literally a letter J, and if you picture the letter J, you can you know we're starting on the lower end of the letter J.

Jon Kidwell

Okay, so I'm not going to do it like I draw, but I start kind of where I finish when I write Correct, correct.

Josh Parnell

So you're starting on the lower end of the J and the intent is to ultimately be on the higher end of the J. So this is the equivalent of going from good to great right.

Jon Kidwell

Or I like to say great to greater.

Josh Parnell

So let's say we're starting on the lower end of the J and we're trying new things. We're implementing these concepts that we learned in training through coaching. What have you right? We're trying new things. Naturally it's going to feel different, because it is. It's going to feel awkward, it's going to feel challenging, it's going to be uncomfortable, but we're going to get comfortable being uncomfortable. We know that growth and comfort cannot coexist. They do not. So what we do is we recognize there should be and will be an inevitable dip in progress, in success, in accuracy, in efficiency. So what happens is we're starting to follow the path of that J, right, and you'll notice that there is that's the curve. You know the term learning curve is a real thing, because you have to go through this curve in order to grow through this curve. But what happens is we get to the bottom of the dip and we quit in the dip.

Jon Kidwell

Yeah, because it's exhausting, because I don't even feel like I have $12 because I've spent $1,200 on all of these equipment I've invested my time.

Jon Kidwell

And guess what? This J curve is not just for you. Seth Godin wrote a book called the Dip, and all of us do it. We get up and then we come down. Organizational change models we go up because we launched this new thing. Everyone's super excited. We don't have a system and we don't follow through. And we go down and if we don't figure those things out, we never come back up. That's it.

Josh Parnell

So how do we come back up, well, I think it begins spent equals value received. I can't, I really can't emphasize that enough, because we have to recognize there's going to be a dip. So, first, recognize and acknowledge there's going to be a dip. And for a lot of us, we get on day 12 of January of 2024 and we say you know what? It's not working. I'm going to go back to how I was doing it. Good was good, right, it wasn't great, but I'll tolerate, good, I'll settle.

Jon Kidwell

This is just how it's going to be.

Josh Parnell

I'll settle for good. You know, John, one of my favorite quotes comes from Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys, and he says beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you'll suck forever. Oh, that was a good one. We want to recognize that we're going to go through something and subsequently grow through something, but we have to know it's going to take some time.

Jon Kidwell

o okay, so I'm being intentional, I'm putting in the time. The super great thing that I think about is if I am a leader in an organization or of a team, this immediately is starting to create ripple effects beyond me, and so this feels to me like the beginning of a legacy and that perhaps, yeah, I'm $12 in, or I'm $1,200 in and you've told me this is coming, so walk me through, kind of. If I'm going through hell, how do I keep going?

Jon Kidwell

Right that kind of idea so that I can see the things that are happening around me and I start to see the ripples of all of these change. Where would you take me? If I'm committed, I'm through the dip, I'm coming up the upside, I'm committed to being intentional, to putting in the time. I got glimmers of hope. Tell me how we get past that million dollars.

Josh Parnell

It starts with communication. You know, john, any change that gets made, big or small, it's going to start raising some eyebrows. The questions are going to start getting asked. We, as leaders, want to make sure that we're providing two things for every person. Every person deserves two things in any relationship, especially professionally clarity and direction. So, as leadership coaches, you know that we want to create two things so that we can provide two things. We want to create safety and trust so that we can provide clarity and direction. Any team member that you're leading, you want to establish safety and trust so that you can provide clarity and direction. It begins with communication.

Jon Kidwell

So talk us through that. Just yeah, communicating, take me down the path of communicating, because I've done this way too many times. I get into that meeting and I've gone through a book like yours and all of a sudden I'm like, yes, this is what I'm going to do, this is how I'm going to change. And I show up in that Monday meeting and all of a sudden I'm just like I mean, guys, we've always done it this way, like this is just how it abandon what I used to think, or the fact that I've completely disregarded that. I may have quit some sort of organizational change management model on January 12, whatever that might be, but I've brought in this new thing. So help me communicate in a way that shows that this is a process and that we're making progress.

Josh Parnell

We know that nothing changes if nothing changes, and so one thing that the entire team needs to know is that we're going to be pivoting accordingly If we're recognizing the three questions. Which is where are we going? That's our vision. How are we getting there? That's our mission. Why are we doing it? That's our purpose. There are pieces of each that could change to some degree because we're trying to make sure that we are still driving towards the ultimate vision that's been casted and the mission that's going to take us there, but as things change, questions start arising.

Josh Parnell

So I like to implement the five steps to effective communication through what I call a foundational conversation. So foundational conversations are important for any team member, regardless of tenure, of course. As a new person on board, when you're onboarding someone, you want to walk them through what the expectations looks like, what the standards looks like, what the culture is, and ask them any questions that you can think of that will help them recognize that we're all on the same team. It's a we before me mentality, but even with tenured team members, it's okay to sit down and reestablish the foundational conversation because you're laying the groundwork, you're creating a firm foundation for everyone a part of the team.

Josh Parnell

So the five steps I like to walk through is first, assume positive intent. Recognize that we may not always make the same decision that each other would, but it's coming from a good place. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, and so when someone knows truly how much we care about each other on a team, we know that we can assume positive intent. The second is to seek first to understand than to be understood. Too often we as leaders are trying to provide directives versus direction, and we can provide direction through questions. One of the questions is hey, help me understand, help me understand what's going on right. So I'm not going to go to you and immediately give you a directive without asking some questions. I want to help you learn how to become a better problem solver and critical thinker, someone who can think outside the box through asking questions.

The Power of Effective Leadership Communication

Jon Kidwell

I hope everybody that's listening all of a sudden starts to see how this starts to lead a legacy, because now you are a leader who's developing leaders just by the way that you are leading. That is exactly where you are taking us right here In sports analogies.

Josh Parnell

To me it's like a coaching tree. You look at coaching trees in the NFL. I think Andy Reid. He just came off his third Super Bowl win in the last five years or so and he's developed a coaching tree over the years. It's very similar.

Josh Parnell

As a leader, what you're doing is you are as a servant leader, as you know, john, you're pouring into people, you're investing in people. You are so focused on the growth and development of people for the sake of them being able to create a legacy for themselves. Like, ultimately, we're all going to be leaving a legacy at the end of our life. So the legacy that we're leading today determines the legacy that we're leaving tomorrow. So, as we get into the third step of effective communication, something I like to talk about is falling in love with asking questions. We're asking a lot of questions and, of course, when uh when we're asking questions.

Josh Parnell

The fourth step is listening, and I think the key here is knowing that there's a difference between listening and hearing. If we're hearing someone, we're simply waiting for them to stop talking so we can tell them what we want to say. If we're listening, we're receiving information, we're processing information and we're utilizing that information to best serve that person, but, furthermore, listening empathetically. I think empathy is an opportunity that a lot of leaders are not capturing, and what I mean by this is empathizing with someone doesn't mean that we necessarily have to experience the same situation as that person, but it does mean that we can imagine their circumstances and accept their feelings without invalidating them, and I think the key word here is invalidating them. Sometimes we inadvertently invalidate when we don't listen. We simply hear them, because we're listening to respond versus listening to understand.

Jon Kidwell

Or I take my own thing of. I don't know that I can handle what you're throwing at me, that's so good. And so I, to protect myself, have to shut it down, when in reality, just accepting it, not taking it on as something that I have to carry for you, but that we can be with each other together, is somewhere that we can move kind of through that and beyond it and I can still serve you.

Josh Parnell

Something I've learned over the years, john, is how important it is just to you can literally verbalize empathy through modeling it like this you thank the person for sharing this with you. John, I want to thank you for sharing this with me. I want to acknowledge your feelings and validate what you shared. I want you to know that I'm here for you. I'm going to do everything I can to serve you and support you in the best way possible. So, just starting with something like that, they feel heard, understood and acknowledged. And so I think, for a lot of folks, when we don't validate the feelings, that again, that you don't necessarily have to completely understand, but you're accepting those feelings of that person without invalidating them, that can go a long way in leadership.

Josh Parnell

And lastly, is staying positive. And so there's kind of a three-piece combo with staying positive, and that is to implement the no complaining rule. So we know, man, when we're starting complaining about things, we're allowing negativity and toxicity to seep in and creep in, which can really be detrimental to the culture of the organization. We also want to make sure that when there is a problem, we're going to pair that with a solution. Now, here's the thing, john, one thing I've learned and I think you and I even talked about this off camera is this applies at work. It doesn't always apply at home, sometimes. What?

Jon Kidwell

are you trying to tell me, Josh?

Josh Parnell

Sometimes our spouse may not want us to to bring a solution, and vice versa, you know, I think it's okay to admit that. Look, there are times when venting can be healthy.

Josh Parnell

And if there's a time when you know our spouse is sharing a problem with us. Something my wife and I have have gotten pretty pretty good at is asking each other in advance Do you want me to listen or do you want me to reply? Essentially, I'm saying I'm asking do you want me to provide a solution or do you want me to just listen, because I need to know how you need me to show up for you in this moment.

Jon Kidwell

Yeah, one of the things that we use and say is I can contain that, right, if you just have to vent, I can contain that and I can move forward after this without being emotionally hijacked. Contain that, and I can move forward after this without being emotionally hijacked, without having to come in and do that. And I just it keyed on it when you were saying it that sometimes it's still a problem in a solution, but it doesn't mean that we have to bring the solution. Yeah, that's so good Means that we need to be the one to help get to a solution. And that might just be.

Jon Kidwell

What do you want to do? Right, that's right. What do you think? Or was was that the solution? Like, is there anything else? Sometimes the vent sesh is just it, and that is, in fact, the solution. I've discharged and now I'm good, I can move right. So I I still feel like there's always a resolution and a solution. That's there, even with our wives sorry, meg, uh, but I I promise not to solve all of them unless I'm invited into it. And it's still, there is a release.

Josh Parnell

There's also a time and place, because it doesn't mean that just because we're not developing a solution right now doesn't mean that a resolution will come right. So we're just planting the seed and we're sharing with our partner how we can show up for them.

Jon Kidwell

You mean, we don't have to solve every problem every single day, we do not actually have to do that. That's the crazy thing, right.

Josh Parnell

But going back to communication, what we know is that when there's a breakdown in communication, voids tend to get created and oftentimes negativity fills those voids. So when I talk about the importance of communication, we also know that there are oftentimes three different conversations happening for the one that's actually happening, which is the one that you're having, the one that I'm having and the one that we're having. So one of the greatest misconceptions about communication is the fact that it's actually happening. So this you know, implementing the five steps to effective communication allows you to get realigned with your team so that we can collectively we before me, we can collectively move that mission towards the vision that was casted, even as changes do begin to occur.

Jon Kidwell

And I just I hope that you all are so encouraged about kind of the intentionality, the time spent, the value received, and then how to work through that in communication. Josh, before I turn it over, you tell everybody about where to get the book, where they can get all the end pieces that we haven't had time to cover yet today, and I ask you a question what's something that you want to share, that you want to point people to in the book, or that's just a good piece to know?

Josh Parnell

before we go. Thank you for asking, john. I think that, ultimately, something I struggled with as I've gotten older, even into my adulthood, was I didn't fully believe that I was a leader, and I think it's important to share with everyone. If you're listening to this podcast, no matter your tenure, no matter what title you hold, even if you don't have a job, you are a leader. Because being a leader means that you are a leader, yeah, amen. Because with, with, with a, being a leader means that you have a perspective that no one else has, so you have your own unique individual perspective that makes you one of one you're. There's no one else in the world like you. So, with perspective, you have the ability to be influential, and if you can be influential, you can affect change. Anyone who is a change agent is a leader a good friend that that.

Jon Kidwell

He said he walked into a training and he walked up to the table and it said this table is reserved for leaders. And he walked to the next table and said this table is reserved for leaders, third table. He finally got it that it was for leaders.

Josh Parnell

Love that.

Jon Kidwell

You just heard Josh say, for every single one of you is that you are a leader and you have a legacy to lead and leave today. So where can we get this and learn more about you, josh, so that we can continue and maybe even begin, but at least move forward in?

Josh Parnell

leading a legacy. Thank you, john. So you can find Le leading a legacy on Amazon. You can also purchase the book uh through my website, which is limitlessleadershipco. Uh, not com uh, but co so limitlessleadershipco.

Jon Kidwell

It's cool.

Josh Parnell

Um, so yeah, limitlessleadershipco, and if you do purchase through my website, I'll also send a signed copy, uh, to you.

Jon Kidwell

Um and um go there today If you do it right, right, right, right right now. I will just take it with me and I'll shoot it to it. Just kidding, but you should go do that.

Josh Parnell

There's more, that's right, but yeah you can go to Amazon or LimitlessLeadershipco to purchase Leading a Legacy today, and you can find me on most social media platforms at the Bearded Leader. So at the Bearded Leader, so you can see if you're watching this episode the beard and of course, I am a leadership coach but at thebeardedleader you can also find me. Just search my name, Josh Parnell, P-A-R-N-E-L-L, and I'd love to connect with you. That's awesome.

Jon Kidwell

Josh, thank you for letting me and us come on location in your home. We got to do the pod swap, which was super fun Before you go. What does it mean to you to lead well?

Josh Parnell

John, I think leading well to me means connection before content.

Jon Kidwell

Tell me just a little bit more about that.

Josh Parnell

Yeah, being able to connect. I think we can connect through three different ways, which is authenticity, humility and vulnerability, and I think it's okay for every leader to recognize you don't have to have all the answers, you don't have to be the best at what you do, but you have to have a heart for serving people and you can serve people through authenticity, humility and vulnerability when you put connection before content.

Jon Kidwell

Connection before content so that you can lead well. This is Josh Parnell. He leads well wherever he goes. Thank you so much for can lead well. This is Josh Parnell he leads well wherever he goes. Thank you so much for being here today. We will see you next time and until then, be well, lead on and God bless.

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Jon Kidwell

Host