Transform Hurdles into Success for G.R.O.W.T.H. - w. Steve Mellor

Unlock the synergy between personal mastery and professional triumph as we share time with Steve Mellor, a seasoned high-performance coach and former Olympic swim coach. Steve artfully navigates us through the essentiality of personal growth as the bedrock of your professional achievements. Drawing from a rich coaching background, he explains why brushing up against personal boundaries can cause discomfort, yet is a crucial step toward fostering an environment where individual investment is the springboard for collective success. This episode promises a shift in perspective, revealing how the paths of self-improvement and career advancement are more connected than you might think.

We then venture into the heart of what pushes both athletes and professionals to their limits – their underlying motivations. Steve's approach, focusing on aligning one's personal 'why' with their professional life, epitomizes a leadership style that's both empathetic and effective. He shares an innovative acronym that encapsulates the personal growth journey, equipping our listeners with tangible steps towards merging their aspirations with their career goals. Facing personal ambitions head-on in a corporate setting can be daunting, but Steve's insights offer a blueprint for threading this intricate balance without jeopardizing workplace harmony or ambition.

By embracing 'the gap' and 'resistance' in our lives, Steve fosters a transformative outlook on these often-feared concepts. He sheds light on how acknowledging the stakes involved can invigorate our drive to succeed, transforming potential hurdles into stepping stones for development. The episode culminates with a reflection on leadership growth, stressing the vitality of nurturing personal relationships and aligning passions with professional demands. Immerse yourself in this enlightening conversation with Steve Mellor, and start charting a course towards realizing your potential with authenticity and intention at the helm.

Connect with Steve:

Steve Mellor | LinkedIn
Steve Mellor | Email
Career Competitor | Podcast
Steve Mellor Speaks | Website
Shock the World! | Book

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Order your copy of Jon's book at RedefineYourServantLeadership.com, and don't forget to utilize the additional resources, or purchase access to the Workbook and Coaching Videos.

Send your Leadership and Business questions to Jon at podcast@leadwell.com.

For more information visit https://leadwell.com

The Leadwell Podcast gives mission-driven leaders principled and practical advice to do just that, lead well.

In each episode, your host Jon Kidwell, interviews leaders with great stories, to share strategies that help leaders navigate complex, confusing, and often down-right challenging leadership, personal growth, business, and workplace culture situations.

Jon is a nonprofit executive turned coach, speaker, author, and CEO of a leadership development company. In working with nonprofits and businesses, big and small, he realized the unique challenges leaders face when they are committed to keeping the mission and people the top priority. Those leaders’ commitment to their principles and the people they lead, plus seeing the need for more leaders who strive to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, is what inspired Jon to start a leadership development company dedicated to the success of mission-driven leaders and their organiza...

Transcript

Personal Growth in Professional Development

Jon Kidwell 0:00

Do you ever feel like we're missing the person in professional development, that the individual who's going through the plan isn't really a part of the plan and it's just this achievement, this business goal? Well, no more. Today's guest, steve Meller, is going to tell us why we need to bring the personal into the professional development and he's going to talk to us about how we grow with a great growth acronym. Stay tuned, dive in, get ready to take notes. Here we go. Welcome to the Leadwell podcast, the podcast where we interview mission-driven leaders who are doing it well. We ask them what they're doing and how they're doing it so that you can lead your business and your people well.

Jon Kidwell 0:57

Today's guest, steve Meller, knows a thing or two about high performance. He was a former Olympic swim coach. He is a high performance coach and he has the company called Career Competitor, with a podcast after the same name Career Competitor Podcast. And he is here to talk to us today about why we need to get personal in the professional development arena and how that is going to help us achieve our professional goals. Let's dive in with Steve right now. Steve, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. I got the opportunity to go on yours. It's so great to have you back here on ours.

Steve Mellor 1:37

Yeah, I can't tell whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to go second as the guest. Well, I'm sure we'll find out. But I, you know, I always love being able to do exactly this being a guest on someone's show, them coming and being a guest vice versa. You know, it's always fun and just appreciate the space and the time on here, man. Yeah.

Jon Kidwell 1:54

Well, if you go second, it means that we already have relationship and that we get to make it personal. Which is really what we are talking about today is why we need to bring in our personal development and our personal growth into the workplace and kick us off, and why we need to do that and what that even means, why we get stuck not doing that.

Steve Mellor 2:17

Yeah, keeping things personal.

Steve Mellor 2:18

You know, for me, when I started my coaching practice two and a half years ago now, I realized quite quickly that the moment I started to bring up anything on a personal account with someone even if they approached me about all things professional and I just asked them a small question about their personal life to just help maybe create a little bit more information or just context around whatever it was that we were discussing, you could see this barrier just go up right away, this discomfort, this moving and getting uncomfortable in their chair and just go well, what's that about?

Steve Mellor 2:54

Why is it that the moment we get personal, we get uncomfortable? Why is it the moment we get personal, people get defensive, whatever it might be, and for me, I saw that so often early on that I just said well, I'm gravitating towards this, I'm running towards this, I'm going to get people to start talking more on a personal level more consistently within the work that I do to help them see that through personal growth comes professional growth, and I think we've been getting that the wrong way around for so long. We've been saying if I keep going professionally, if I keep achieving this, if I keep hitting this milestone, then surely all these other aspects of my personal life are going to fall into place. And when we get the personal investment right, so many of those professional ambitions that we have suddenly those milestones, not only do we check them off, I'd argue, we even start to do it a little bit quicker as well.

Jon Kidwell 3:53

Oh man, Okay, so a huge kind of paradigm shift there, that I'm going to achieve these professional milestones so that I can grow personally. And what I think I just heard you say is actually no, my friend, it is focus on the personal growth and then the professional achievements come out of that. Is that what you're saying?

Steve Mellor 4:13

That's what I'm saying, man, and again, it comes from just watching, whether it be a one-on-one session that I'm doing with a client, or these workshop scenarios where you just propose something to the room and you just feel all this silence and at first you're like, is it something I said? Did the question come out wrong? And then you go well, wait a second. No, I think it's the content of what I just put in this question gets people uncomfortable. As opposed to just saying, hey, what might be some ways that you can improve in the work that you're doing right now, and people having a laundry list of things that they've got on their list of things to do in their job today to say, no, no, no.

Steve Mellor 4:53

What might it look like for you to just see some improvement in your life right now, away from the workplace and people going well, I can't remember the last time I made some time just to even start a list on that, because I'm so, I'm so caught up in all these other things I'm being paid to do. Why would I take the time to create a list and the things I want to do and and then, and then suddenly there's this oh, wait a second, am I doing anything that I want to do right now and you go. Well, now we're in the good stuff, now we're going to get into the stuff. That's going to get you uncomfortable, that's going to force you to maybe reveal a few things that you don't want to reveal about yourself, but in those revelations comes the growth.

Jon Kidwell 5:30

Well it comes, the growth, and you are working against years of being told each of us that it's going to be different, right? I can think back to wonderful leaders that I have had that have said you need to leave home at home and work at work. And I just see exactly what you're talking about is kind of a spillover of that to every single aspect. So you finally see some of the arms unfolding and the armor coming down a little bit, a little bit. But how can you, how can I, how can somebody start to bridge this gap with the people that they lead, to try to make it a little bit more personal and say, hey, you're the same person at home as you are at work and we have different spaces that we focus on, different priorities. So let's get real, let's get personal. Like, how do I start to break that down and make it personal in the workplace?

Steve Mellor 6:24

Yeah, one of my favorite examples to use of this is when I used to coach swimming.

Exploring Personal Growth and Development

Steve Mellor 6:28

So my background is in the sport of swimming. I was an elite swimmer myself and then I started to coach and found myself coaching at Louisiana State University for a number of years and I used goal sheets to begin, like, first couple of seasons. I would say, okay, give me your goals, tell me what you want to achieve, etc. Etc. And we sit down, we have a discussion and we and the person would just give me all these amazing like thoughts and perspectives and outlooks on like this is what I want to get out of the season. And as a coach, naive, young coach at the time, I would just go, okay, great, this is awesome, this sounds like we're gonna have a great season. We're gonna have a great season because you just told me all these things that you're going to do, and then the season would go and probably about 30% to 40% of these things that all the athletes would put on paper actually came to fruition. And now that wasn't me necessarily being a bad coach and it wasn't them necessarily being a bad athlete. It was more about well, listen, what are we not having a conversation about. For me, that's what my curiosity went to. It's like what do we need to be talking about at the front end of the season to make sure that that 30, 40% turns into 80, 90% of true growth, true performance, true optimal performance?

Steve Mellor 7:37

And so I started actually asking listen, why does this matter to you? Why does this matter to you? Because, chances are, the moment you ask a question about somebody's, why they're going to drop the environment that they're operating in and they're performing in and they're going to tell you something on a human level, they're going to actually say listen. The reason why I want to achieve this time, coach, is because, since the age of whatever, I've believed that this is what I was capable of. Boom, right there. Now we're talking about the human. Now we're getting into that difficult conversation of like okay, well, no-transcript. I see all these things that we're going for and we're chasing, we're trying to achieve over the next quarter, whatever it might be. But what does it look like to stop and say guys, why is this important to us? What will this mean to us if we can actually achieve this? And suddenly, now it's not about you're not answering on behalf of the result anymore, you're answering on behalf of you, the human being, and why it matters to you.

Jon Kidwell 8:59

Let's talk about something we're not talking about, as you gave us the question for, and that is Steve. If I do this in the workplace, if I do this where I work, people are going to start thinking that I'm vying for their job Because I'm going to say I would like to be able to do this someday. People are going to start thinking that I'm just trying to make it all about me. People are going to start to look cross-eyed at me and be like this person is delusional, like they're never going to be able to do some of these. So like, how do I, how do I navigate that as someone that wants to freely talk about it and say, hey, I would love to be X, y and Z one day. I want to have a C in front of something that I do. You know what? I actually want to go start my business, but I'm working here, you know, for the next five or 10 years. Like that is a radical level of candor that we don't talk about.

Steve Mellor 9:51

Yeah, and, and you know again, it's why I love just the name and the, the mission of this show man. It's like it's about doing it well, but it's about also acknowledging when you don't, and, and so for me, the one thing I would love doing with athletes was just giving my account of as their, as a leader in that coaching position, for saying, hey, the reason I'm asking you is this here's an account of how I try to pursue a certain milestone without conviction, without connecting with the true why. But in addition to that, here's also an example of how, even when I did that, I still didn't achieve it. But what I can tell you is that, by simply getting comfortable with the why on the front end, I didn't look at the not achieving moment, the falling short. I didn't look at that as a failure. I looked at that as, like, listen, I actually got to my ceiling based on my why, based on my purpose, and I learned a whole bunch in the process. And now I can look back and say, look, this is how close I just got, based on establishing that why on the front end.

Steve Mellor 10:56

What was the missing piece? If I were to go at this again, how can I be even more convicting in the way in which I do it, and I think, as leaders, when we can start to be the example of that, then people go listen, I actually want to share with you my ultimate goal, my crazy goal. I want to tell you why it is. I believe I'm the one that's capable of doing it and why I've believed this my entire life. And then we get into these environments where we create conversations where it's okay to not only share that but to almost acknowledge like, hey, there's a good chance I'm not going to do it, there's a good chance I'm going to fall short, but it's the going after it, it's that fulfillment and desire to fulfill potential where we actually see, from a leadership standpoint at least, what our people are truly capable of. And it's why, as leaders, we have to be the ones exemplify that very approach.

Jon Kidwell 11:45

Yeah, if it is going to get personal right, if personal development's coming in the workplace. I hear you saying leaders, opposite of, why is investing? You are first in and you are last out. You got to lead the way and saying here's some of my crazy aspirations, here's what I see that is available for all of us. Here's why I think this is important and we're going to go for it. Because you know the old thing if we shoot for the moon, at least we're going to land among the stars, right? That kind of idea, wow, oh, super, super powerful. So now I would really love to turn it, because we've got some folks that are bought in and they're like all right, I'm tracking with you, steve, we can make it personal, and you are out there doing this with folks. What are some of the key patterns or themes in personal development that leads to a healthy professional achievement, promotion, kind of furthering of success? If you had to drill it down into some of the patterns, you see that that any of us can work on. What might those be?

Steve Mellor 12:49

yeah, so it actually allows me to quite easily just present this acronym that I use. I take the word growth and I break it into six different parts of the process, and so the G is gap. Okay, so we go gap, then we go resistance, then we go ownership, we go work, we go truth and then we get to habit at the end. Okay, so the reason I actually start with theap is that some of your listeners may have listened to the, may have read or listened to the book in this day and age, the Gap in the Game, and so it's a great book, awesome book, love it.

The Power of Embracing Resistance

Steve Mellor 13:22

And what I've actually done in the work that I do now is like what would it look like to actually create gaps, as opposed to this gap being seen as this? Sometimes we fall into this mindset of you know, oh look, I can't do this, oh look, I've not been able to do this, and kind of looking at it with this almost melancholy, what it look? And say, hey, what if I not only created gaps, but those gaps were the very reason as to why I then did all this work after I've created the gap. And so what does it look like to not only say, hey, here's the gap, this is where I want to get to now. How do I bridge that gap? And maybe, as I'm bridging that gap, the gap gets wider and it gets deeper. That's the way I create. That's why how I describe gaps. Gaps is like, okay, the wide the length of the gap is like how long is it going to take to get there? The depth of the gap is where we get into the Y, like the that. So the deeper, the deeper the gap, the better. As far as I'm concerned, we want a whole bunch of depth in that gap.

Steve Mellor 14:17

So that's just the gap part of it, and the reason why I go into so much detail around that is that what's funny is that you know all the other stuff until we actually get clear on why we're creating a gap in our world and what it might mean for us to have many gaps in our world, what it might mean for us to have many gaps in our world.

Steve Mellor 14:33

Until we do that work, all the other work, it's never going to have the sort of motivation component to it if we don't get really comfortable and clear on why we want gaps in our life and how we can create more of them. So on a personal level, you know why that all matters. I'm happy to go into the other five, but at the same time, I love making it abundantly clear on the front end, like hey, that? But at the same time, I love making it abundantly clear on the front end, like hey, that gap is something that we actually we want to be creating gaps in our life, because it's telling us that we have a need to grow, we have a need to do work, we have a need to be motivated to get up and try again, and try again, and try again every single day.

Jon Kidwell 15:18

You are creating a scenario where we come to terms with the fact that there are things that we want that were not yet there, right, and that's kind of counter to what we try to establish in every different place in life, where we just kind of get to move through and it's as painless and comfortable as possible. And what I hear you saying is not only don't fear the gap, but create the gap and then to be completely tongue in cheek and kind of pun intended, mind the gap, because when you mind the gap, that is when you can set yourself up for tremendous, amazing growth.

Steve Mellor 15:51

Yeah, and the reason I put the word resistance right after the word gap is that, gosh, I mean, use the example of new year's resolutions.

Steve Mellor 15:59

Right, you could use your new year's resolution whatever it was january 1st this year.

Steve Mellor 16:03

That could have been your first gap of 2024 and it could have been an awesome gap. But the only thing that's prevented you from actually seeing it through or getting it started, or whatever it might be, is that you put a resistance up right away. You created a reason why it either couldn't be done or now's not a good time to do it. You created an excuse, you gave yourself an avoidance tactic, you did something that prevented you from actually laying that first brick of the bridge to actually bridge that gap. And again, it's why it's so important that we get so clear on the width and the depth of that gap, because the likelihood is, if we do the work on the gap in the front end, any resistances that come up, we can kind of rationalize them, hear them and say, well, listen, I hear it, I see it. I know I need to work on it, but that gap means enough to me to still overcome the resistance and do the work towards bridging the gap. Okay so, I've.

Jon Kidwell 16:59

I've leaned in, I've identified a gap. It's deep and wide and and I want to go for it. I mean it could be around kind of being conflict avoidant. It could be around growing in an expertise area. It could be around soft skills, emotional intelligence. It could be around presenting, like a number of these kind of could come in right and things that I want to grow in. Now I'm feeling the resistance. And help me, because I know that I have done this before and I experienced this a lot inside of organizations. You're talking about resistance when it's internal, as things I'm doing. What about when the conversation turns and it's something like well, steve, I can't do this here, right, they're not helping me do these things. How do we navigate that? There may be some resistance that's outside, or at least that we see is outside of our control.

Steve Mellor 17:55

That's right. So there's levels of resistance, if you will, and so the first level I call it is interference, and so interference can sometimes come internally, through limiting beliefs and went up, and it's just like we live in a world of interference. Interference is this thing that is always going to be there. So the question becomes what interference do you need to respect and listen to? What interference do you need to just dismiss and move on, no matter what? And so so much of what you're talking about here is that, from a, you know, just external standpoint, it could be in the form of a bad leader, right? You know, one of the biggest interferences that you could be experiencing right now in your life is the fact that you don't have the kind of leadership that's required to bring the best out of you. In fact, you have limiting leadership around you that is dismissing completely the need for you to do any of this work that we've spoken about so far. You know, and like, that is a tough, tough interference, which is why part of the resistance I also capture is the stakes like where, when do you want to actually acknowledge? Hey, within this resistance part of the reason why I have the resistance, because the stakes are high, I'm recognizing that there's something at stake. It could be your health. It could be just your longevity in life, it could be the energy that you have. It could be the quality of the relationship you have with those closest to you.

Steve Mellor 19:27

Whatever it is, the stakes mean enough where your body's going into doubt, your body's going into hesitation, nerves, whatever it might be. That's also part of the resistance. So we have the external elements. There's no doubt about it. But ask yourself, if the stakes are high enough. You can go both ways. If the stakes are high enough, we sometimes put that resistance on ourself. But if the stakes are also high enough, maybe we can overcome some of that interference. Maybe we can be active towards some of that interference because we want to. We want to respect the stakes, we want to do the work toward the stakes to where we're not letting that resistance get in our way.

Jon Kidwell 20:04

I just draws me back to the reason in the rationale why we need something that is so deep. Because my brain is doing this little like bar chart kind of going up and down and for those on video they can see me doing a very weird arm motion. But as the stakes go up, if my reason why is low, I mean I'm not ever going to go do it right. But with a high why and high stakes I can still go right, even in the face of. I just got to get this done on my own. I got to get this done out of a different place in my organization. I need to find another internal advocate or mentor or whatever. It is High Y, high stakes are necessary to continue to progress and to deliver high growth.

Steve Mellor 20:50

Yeah, and just to kind of keep on that theme of the leader part of this as well, you want to go back to what we said earlier the conversation and the ability just to kind of connect on this too. It's like if you, if you don't, if you're not getting that in the conversation from those that are leading you, or if you're a leader that is not putting this kind of information into conversations, now's the time to, almost as, as the person being led, bring it in yourself, insist upon it, or, as the leader, make it part of the conversation, ask people what's at stake here. You know, let them know that by you asking that question, you're actually letting them know that you care. You care about the fact that something is at stake and it is from their perspective. It's not from your perspective as the leader, because any leader can say, hey, listen, guys, we've got a lot at stake here, we've got a lot of stake here, we've got a lot of stake, and everyone in the room could be like what, what Can you tell us what? Or is it just personal to you?

Steve Mellor 21:44

Whereas when you ask those that you're leading, hey, what's at stake here for you personally? What do you think is at stake here for you personally. Maybe you're going to get something from that person that, as a leader, you can use in a wonderful, advantageous way to bring the best out of them, to remind them at times when they do hit a slump, when they do hit adversity. Hey, remember what you told me, what's at stake? These are the moments where you need to remind yourself what's at stake, when you don't want to do the work, when you are feeling some of that adversity. Such a powerful tool as a leader if you're willing to just simply ask a question as simple as hey, what's at stake here for you as a leader, if you're willing to just simply ask a question as simple as hey, what's at stake here for you?

Jon Kidwell 22:24

What is at stake is personal well-being, personal growth, all of that which precedes all of the service, the leadership, the promotions, the achievements that we are going to do at work. And, Steve, I'm so grateful what I have written down outside of growth and all of that is real information. Real feedback equals real growth and I heard you just encourage all of us to flip it and to invite people into this in a very personal way and my brain kind of extrapolates it out to. We fight so much today with kind of the ownership of employees and that level of engagement and people trying to figure out this life and work and how I want to do it and kind of how that kind of circles around everything, and I hear you tying it extremely strongly together, giving each of us kind of individual ownership and our own growth, and then it leads to great results for all of us.

Personal Development and Leadership Growth

Steve Mellor 23:24

That's right, and again, it's the to to a point you made early on here in the discussion.

Steve Mellor 23:30

Like we, we do so much work and have so many discussions around, hey, let's do a better job of not taking work home with us.

Steve Mellor 23:36

Well, when was the last time you said, hey, what would it look like to bring home into the workplace? You know, what would it like to bring you into the workplace, what, like you know, having these personal discussions in the workplace, maybe just that sheer act alone, or at least that encouragement alone, could be that sort of you know, the dam starting to break in the workplace to where people are a little bit more forthcoming with information. They do feel as though they can speak up. You suddenly now start to acquire ideas and thoughts that otherwise you wouldn't, had you not encouraged them. Hey, there's a human element that I'm going to need everybody to bring in to the workplace more consistently, because if we do professionally performance, whatever lens we look through, we're going to see benefits in all those areas as well, we have a homework assignment, and it is to go out and to talk to our people and to ask them what is something personal that you would like to achieve, something that you would love to grow in?

Jon Kidwell 24:38

We have always said that when a professional need and a personal passion come together, that is where we are going to get the most growth is when we can align these things, when people can move in to fill business gaps based on things that they love to do, that they're strong at, and so it's our responsibility as leaders to turn around and say hey, tell me about something that you really love to do, that you want to grow, and tell me about one of these areas that you'd love to learn more about the business. And let's make it personal, let's invite people in, because when each of us win, we're all going to win. So, steve, before we tell everybody where they can connect with you, where maybe even they can get this six step growth chart, because I'm going to follow up and be like, hey, where can I download that? Can I just staple that Not?

Jon Kidwell 25:21

to my forehead but to like right above the screen.

Steve Mellor 25:23

So that I can see it.

Jon Kidwell 25:24

It's a great. I love that is a great, great acronym. Thank you for sharing that. But before we do any of that, steve, what does it mean to you to lead well?

Steve Mellor 25:35

Well, the biggest commitment I've made in my life up to this point was becoming a husband, and after that was becoming a father. I also am a man of faith as well, and it turns out that health and wellness are massive to me. And so for me and I know you do so much on self-leadership. For me, if I'm not leading me and if I'm not leading those that matter most to me in an optimal capacity, then it's really completely irrelevant how else I'm leading. I could be leading phenomenally in other areas of my life, but if I'm not leading well in those areas, none of it matters. So, as someone who's spent the last 25 minutes talking about personal development, if I'm not assessing my leadership on a personal level, then I'm not doing my part towards actually advocating for everything that we've just spent 25 minutes talking about. So that's where it comes down to for me, and I assess that pretty simply. I just check in with my family. How am I doing? How are we doing Between me and my wife having these little 30-second, one-minute moments? Is there anything I'm missing right now? Is there anything that we need to be discussing that we're not discussing? These same questions that we've kind of gone over here today. Are you asking those same questions to the people that truly matter most to you in your life?

Steve Mellor 26:57

My daughter's four, going on 14, and she will tell me daddy, you're not spending enough time with me. Daddy, you're not doing this, and I love it. Bring it on. Hold me accountable, that's what I want. My son is three and a half. As long as I kick something around in the backyard with him pretty much daily, he's happy. So it's just like these are the ways that I can assess my leadership and how I can lead well, and I just encourage everybody to have that honest look in the mirror and say like, hey, am I willing to do this? And I assure you to the same sentiment that I provided on the front end, if you're leading well at home, if you're leading well in health, I assure you you're going to be leading well in the workplace as well.

Jon Kidwell 27:36

You cannot give something you don't have, and I hear you saying that we need to make sure that we have it so that we can give it as leaders, thank you. Thank you so much, steve, for today, for talking about personal growth inside the workplace, for giving us that great picture of what it looks like to lead well, where can people connect with you? For speaking, for books, for coaching, whatever that might be? Where can people go to connect with you?

Realizing Your Potential

Steve Mellor 28:02

Yeah, the first thing I always tell people is directly steve at careercompetitorcom. Career Competitor is the name of the business. It's the name of the podcast you can. Also, if you're a social person, you can hop on social media at Coach Steve Mellor Turns out, I was able to get that name, which must mean I'm the only one I don't know.

Steve Mellor 28:19

Maybe it's true, Maybe it's not, I don't know. And also I do have a book. We joke about it Shock the World A Competitor's Guide to Realizing your Potential. If you are on the video, it's hovering over my left shoulder here. I've been told it's a good read and so all I can do is tell you what others tell me. And so, yeah, it's a good read. But like I said at the front the front part of that steve at careercompatitorcom. I'd love to hear from you and discuss how I can be of service to you in any way.

Jon Kidwell 28:47

Steve, thank you again for coming on, and everybody as we kind of process through this. There's a lot for us to take away, some action items, but just remember real relationships with real information, real feedback equals real growth and I hope each of you will lean into that and to do it well. Be well, my friends, Lead on and God bless.