Manage Your Risk as a Leader - w. Nicole Schultz

Have you ever considered how the patchwork of your identity can shape your prowess as a leader? Nicole Schultz, a vanguard in the world of assurance and risk management, joins us to share her rich insights. Together, we unveil how the threads of age, gender, and ethnicity have colored her leadership experience, providing a tapestry of lessons on inclusivity and risk management. Nicole's unique viewpoint invites us to peer into the leadership labyrinth, where our personal stories weave into our professional identities, and how a strong grasp of our biases can transform the way we steer our teams and organizations.

As we navigate the complex intersection of leadership and identity, Nicole and I unravel the ways our personal narratives can illuminate strengths and spotlight risks. We converse about the delicate art of maintaining discipline and consistency in our leadership, especially during pivotal life changes. The potency of storytelling, as a tool for risk management and professional development, is spotlighted, highlighting how vulnerability can bond us and mentorship can shape us. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on cultivating an authentic approach to leadership, where intentionality and adaptability reign supreme.

Rounding out our exploration, we hone in on the art of risk management within the business leadership arena. The episode culminates with a heartfelt acknowledgment of the importance of mindfulness and the ripple effect of our choices as leaders. With Nicole's guidance, we learn how to lead with intention and integrity, fostering courage and authenticity. We part with a message of empowerment, beckoning you to lead with confidence and consciousness, embracing every shade of your story. Join us on this enlightening journey where personal identity meets professional mastery.

Resource file: Risk Reflections and Mitigations

------------
Order your copy of Jon's book at RedefineYourServantLeadership.com, and don't forget to utilize the additional resources, or purchase access to the Workbook and Coaching Videos.

Send your Leadership and Business questions to Jon at podcast@leadwell.com.

For more information visit https://leadwell.com

The Leadwell Podcast gives mission-driven leaders principled and practical advice to do just that, lead well.

In each episode, your host Jon Kidwell, interviews leaders with great stories, to share strategies that help leaders navigate complex, confusing, and often down-right challenging leadership, personal growth, business, and workplace culture situations.

Jon is a nonprofit executive turned coach, speaker, author, and CEO of a leadership development company. In working with nonprofits and businesses, big and small, he realized the unique challenges leaders face when they are committed to keeping the mission and people the top priority. Those leaders’ commitment to their principles and the people they lead, plus seeing the need for more leaders who strive to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, is what inspired Jon to start a leadership development company dedicated to the success of mission-driven leaders and their organiza...

Transcript

Leadership Risk Management and Inclusivity

Jon Kidwell 0:00

Do you ever ask yourself what could go wrong? Of course you do. As leaders, we think about that often, whether it's with a new business, whether it's when we're rolling out a new project or even just engaging in a partnership. What could go wrong, however? Do you ever stop and think about that for yourself, with your leadership, with the people you lead? What could go wrong? That's what we are talking about today with Nicole Schultz. She is an assurance and risk management leader and she has built a framework to help us think through how do we mitigate and manage our leadership risks, what we bring to the table so that we can support our team and our organizations as well as possible.

Jon Kidwell 0:43

Welcome to the Leadwell podcast, the podcast where we interview mission-driven leaders who are doing it well. We ask them what they're doing and how they're doing it so that you can lead your business and your people well. Nicole, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. I've been really looking forward to connect with you. We have a mutual friend that brought us together. We're preparing for this and I thought you know what. This is going to be great. What could go wrong? Right?

Nicole Schultz 1:22

What could go wrong. I really appreciate it, John. And yeah, just the opportunity to talk about exploring risks. It's something that's near and dear to my heart and I feel like it really came together nicely when I was thinking about my leadership practice and wanting to grow as an inclusive leader.

Nicole Schultz 1:41

What could go wrong.

Jon Kidwell 1:43

Exactly, and that's what kind of drew me in as your particular lens on this and in the audit and the risk management space, and how you started to apply this to yourself into leading. And so you know, remind me and give others a little bit of that backstory that really started you to look at paying attention to managing your leadership risks.

Nicole Schultz 2:09

Yeah, I appreciate that. So you know, from my perspective, where did this idea kind of come from. You know, as I was growing in my own job and role responsibilities, especially in the risk insurance space, a huge part of our work is connecting with other leaders to discuss the risks or the what could go wrong and what are you going to do about. It related, you know, to the processes and the systems that were under their care. And you know, as I started to think about my own leadership practice, I realized a similar sort of risk management approach could help me. You know, bringing that together and part of that, you know what was driving that was there.

Nicole Schultz 2:57

You know, when you become sort of a titled leader, one of my passions was really becoming an inclusive leader, building a high performing team, and some of that was grounded in just a belief that maybe I didn't always have a seat at the table or my own sort of internal monologue not belonging at the table, and I just felt like I had to kind of get curious and really honest with myself about perhaps the pieces of my identity that could show up as those sort of what could go wrong and just you know, on a really basic level, there are seasons where I would be sort of the youngest or the only female, or sometimes the only person of color, and there were so many other dimensions of my identity that could influence how I showed up as a leader, and you know I saw leadership really as a true privilege and to become a truly inclusive leader, I had to kind of get a handle on that?

Nicole Schultz 4:01

so that I could also, you know, extend that to those who are under my care to help them manage their career and their possible identity related to their career.

Jon Kidwell 4:12

And so that's how all of this started to come together.

Jon Kidwell 4:19

So you started to mention a few and some I can connect with and relate with, like age or potential experiences, as you start to take on responsibility and others I can't, and you call them risks. And just help me as you think through what risk is, because part of it I was thinking was these could also be strengths, right, like these are definitely potential strengths that I bring in there and risks. So help me kind of follow along with you as you look at these and why you call them risks.

Nicole Schultz 4:59

Yeah, it's interesting For me.

Nicole Schultz 5:02

I was thinking about those dimensions of my identity in the context of when I talk about it as a risk of what could go wrong, uh, when I maybe show up in a certain way with an external, with an external context and helping maybe others manage their bias and helping me check my own bias, and you're 100% right, like I think each risk presented an opportunity and each of those things potentially could be strengths. But if I was sort of eyes wide open to the nuance of how I showed up in different situations, would I also be able to be just a bit more nuanced in my leadership style by looking at these things as again the potential of what could go wrong.

Nicole Schultz 5:48

There's always the outside risk and the potential of what could go right, but having some of those mitigations kind of thought through around what are the opportunities to mitigate and what?

Jon Kidwell 6:01

are some of the upside risks, if you will.

Nicole Schultz 6:05

That could materialize from how I show up as a leader. And the whole thought around. It was just again to get more curious and more honest about myself.

Jon Kidwell 6:18

How did I want to show up?

Nicole Schultz 6:19

as a leader.

Jon Kidwell 6:20

And could I be just a little more disciplined in my framework of thinking and the things that I wanted to do or support, maybe I wanted to reach out to. And just a little bit more resistance to that.

Nicole Schultz 6:33

It was a bit more discipline and more repeatable.

Jon Kidwell 6:38

I love that. I love the fact that as you're taking on more responsibility, you're also bringing in so much more reflection and you've shared and I got the opportunity to look at kind of that framework. So with permission, I'm going to lay it out there and then please correct me where I'm wrong and help explain all of that to each of us. So you start with kind of what are some of those inherit risks to yourself, to you as the leader? What are some mitigations that you can take for that risk? What do those look like? Some behaviors that correspond to help you mitigate that? And then what is your story? And so there are five different parts to it. What is your story, and so there are five different parts to it. Can you help reframe and kind of communicate through those five-part framework better than I did? For sure, no, it's exactly right, josh.

Nicole Schultz 7:37

It's not a five-step process but it is sort of a five-step process and if you're sort of in the nerdy risk management space, some of those things might resonate with you. So just very simply in like a common sort of risk management activity. One of the first things that you do is a bit of a scan and you identify in this case the story that's surfacing with some of your personal identity risk. But if you were managing a process or system, you would identify in an environmental scan like what are some of the potential threats or the potential what could go wrongs?

Nicole Schultz 8:17

that might impact your process or system. Why you?

Jon Kidwell 8:20

know why not do that, for leadership, why, you know? Why not do that for leadership?

Nicole Schultz 8:27

And so that's what I did. Is I just sort of looked at my story and said what are some of the things that are surfacing for me, whether they're just my internal monologue, or they're grounded in external data points, or they're things that are just very new to?

Jon Kidwell 8:36

me.

Nicole Schultz 8:37

Those were the three things that I sort of focused on in terms of the things in my story that I felt like were resuracing as personal identity with. So that's kind of that. First thing is just again being courageous and curious to lean into our story a little bit, each of us, to say what are some of the things that could maybe go wrong and that could include, you know, a strength overdone, because sometimes something that could go right but something that's overdone, that becomes a risk. And it just helped me and saying, hey, what are some of the things that could go wrong based on my dimensions of identity, based on some internal and external context that might impact my leadership.

Jon Kidwell 9:36

So if I'm sitting here doing this for myself, I'm starting to think about some things and maybe, like others that are listening, they might even be thinking about different things at different points in their career. So, listening to you, I'm thinking there's a John years ago that is a young executive, doesn't have any tenure, has a lot of hunger and drive, has a lot of hunger and drive. I'm not yet a parent and and there are kind of this other factor of I'm I'm outside to the organization that I'm in, I'm new, right, I'm the new guy on the block, and so all of these I'm starting to think through as maybe I should have at the time uh, that these are potential risks, right? Is that some of what you are talking about? And the one that comes up to me most is because I feel it now, being a parent, is this idea of kind of me at work pre children, me at work post children, and even how some of those priorities and managing those start to change. Is that the type of stuff that you're talking about?

Managing Risks Through Story Sharing

Nicole Schultz 10:55

That is exactly it. And what is really cool and even just this level of sharing and as I've kind of worked with other groups on this is that story all of a sudden, instantly for me creates a connection. Because you know, nicole, 12 years ago pre-parent, newer leader, sort of a bit outside of the leadership group in one of the last organizations I had the privilege of leading in and as I started to think about this, instead of getting sort of down about those things, I started to think about well, we work with other leaders on their processes and systems. This is really just something I want to cultivate for my own sort of process and system, if you will. Why don't I start to look at that from a bit more of a risk management lens? And it took a while for me to kind of buy in, but when I started to realize that it really could work, it started to help me then lead to the next step of what are those potential mitigations and starting to get clear on them. And part of story sharing is that we start to identify with other people and hear what they've maybe done to manage that risk of. You know, young executive, john, pre-parent, you know what kind of showed up and worked for him as a mitigation and part of that, story sharing helps us just accelerate what are some maybe key things we need to do to mitigate that risk, and so that next step is just starting to get clear on. You know what are some potential mitigations when you're showing up as that new leader For me back then it was sort of being one of the quote unquote youngest leaders.

Nicole Schultz 12:50

So try to figure out what, beyond my performance currency, can help me establish my credibility and maybe some relational density, maybe asking for some mentorship or sponsorship. But instead of being, I guess, a bit haphazard about it, it's just being a bit more clear on those are maybe some things that I need to lean into to help mitigate the risk of being, you know, the youngest or just outside of that leadership group. Um, and so it's just a different way of thinking about how to manage those sort of again. What could go wrong?

Jon Kidwell 13:33

yeah it, yeah, that's so interesting.

Jon Kidwell 13:35

It makes me think of things that honestly that I stepped in and then got some great feedback and then usually went into building some sort of I'll use your word mitigation strategy around that ie being extremely driven and hard pressing and probably unfortunately putting some of the work above the people and not having this level of understanding and empathy for people in different stages of life.

Jon Kidwell 14:07

And you step in it and then kind of on the backside, grateful for good feedback and great people around me that are like you know you should really be thinking about things like this and then they turn into someone who is now an advisor, can give that perspective and we're getting ready to rock and roll. And it's like have I covered all of the bases here in terms of thinking about some of these different things that may show up or communicating to some of these different areas and kind of as I was listening to sponsorship, mentorship, folks that can give you different perspective of things you have not yet gone through. I think about the fact that I ended up with an individual inside the organization who was more tenure to me, who had kids, who was a wonderful kind of counselor and guide to say here are some things for you to consider that you yet haven't experienced in life, and it would be great because you'll be a better leader as you think about these things.

Nicole Schultz 15:11

Yeah, I know that's interesting, because that's really what it was for me as well and I think some of that is just natural, as we and I think as you move up, maybe an organization is hierarchical leadership I like, I I always like to maybe ascribe a little to that leader class. I don't like it currently regardless of what we do in an organization. We should ask you it. But.

Jon Kidwell 15:41

I found that if I got a bit more, vulnerable or curious with myself.

Nicole Schultz 15:46

I was asking different questions. And I can't say if I celebrated my nations or not, but I know that I was more disciplined about the type of nation I was for or the type of sponsorship maybe completely different from my gender, where I wouldn't have had the courage to ask before because I felt like maybe I do long, but I recognized through some of this process that people really want to lean in and people who are almost like on paper, sort of opposite.

Nicole Schultz 16:32

For you are more than willing, I find, to share their stories, share their lessons and I do feel like there's parts of my career and even just my sort of attitude towards building a life and making sort of my work and life more integrated, that work accelerated, having these great mentors and sponsors who were willing to share that with me.

Jon Kidwell 17:04

Yeah, do you have you found and do you think that others find similarity as to what you and I have even said here today? You said I found that people want to lean in right, regardless of how much we may or may not perceive that we are alike and kind of share some of those kind of overlapping pieces of ourselves. Do you find that once you get into there there is a lot more that you are able to relate to than originally kind of assumed?

Jon Kidwell 17:38

yeah, almost, yeah, almost always and that's what I, that's what I.

Nicole Schultz 17:41

There's that, there's that beautiful concept of just like the strangers and there's something there's something really about, about kind of sharing, sharing your risk management risk management story.

Jon Kidwell 17:51

Again, just a bit of a risk, like for me, like for sharing a sharing a bit of a risk.

Nicole Schultz 17:53

Like for me, like for sharing a sharing a bit of your story and your story and how I manage my risk, the more I have done this or even just my own life been courageous to somebody who I felt like gosh, I would really just really just like on paper.

Jon Kidwell 18:11

Could not be more on our skills, our style, dimensions of identity, just everything.

Nicole Schultz 18:19

And then realizing that, realizing that, we're more like than we are different. And and um um that idea, that idea of just scanning our sort of identity actually. Actually is it almost a bit of an equalizer. That way, it brings a lot of people to the table who maybe felt a bit of shame or indifference into an inclusion, the context of the context of things that can feel a bit polarizing and this just felt like there was a lot of reciprocity.

Jon Kidwell 19:01

I just personally for me it really helped like I said in my own career and sort of starting to connect with as one of those patients.

Nicole Schultz 19:13

You know the next step around kind of figuring out what you need to do to make those medications happen. There was a number, there was a number of things for me that surfaced, as many sponsorship and sponsorship and I knew that's something I needed to respond and respond, and more courage, and more courage in terms of just willingness to ask or other part the other part of it.

Nicole Schultz 19:39

For me that surfaced was what I call a bit of, I call a bit of like, when we talk about, when we talk about medications, I kind of put strategic, strategic, those kind of terms just kind of turn around. But I throw it around, but I was really, was really struck by just needing to get a bit more crystal clear.

Jon Kidwell 20:00

What I saw as my students, what.

Nicole Schultz 20:01

I mean by that is for me figuring out what sort of leader I wanted to be in the context of perhaps what leadership principles resonated with me.

Nicole Schultz 20:14

And then coming up with my own sort of personalized lens of that. And so I did some work. Leadership the rubber hit the road. For me it was taking some leadership. Taking some leadership In my case it was from the Kuzism poster, from the Kuzism poster that just resonated 12 years ago, and so I always kind of hung on to it and then, over time coming, and then over time coming, um, um and again, it feels and again it feels a bit like it did help me just get, just get a bit more, a bit more clear on, clear on.

Jon Kidwell 20:50

I wanted to show up as I wanted to show up as a leader.

Nicole Schultz 20:56

And I know right now it sounds like this is sort of a lot about me, but a piece of it was so that I could show up as a more inclusive, a bit more nuanced and being able to help others who are maybe dealing with the same sorts of things or they have a certain level how they're going to belong how they're going to progress or supporting others and wanting to reach. Whatever they have to find is their potential.

Jon Kidwell 21:30

Yeah, I love how you really start with self-leadership and even inside of that, you keep turning towards kind of leading others right and kind of turning it to that, both in terms of you say, this started with looking at kind of my own and managing risks, but you but you also teach this, you share this, you use it as a way to help others.

Jon Kidwell 21:58

And I think it's one of those areas that every single one of us can connect with because, if we're being honest with ourselves, we are all managing risks all the time, as, as a level of leader, with the expertise that I'm bringing or that I'm not bringing, to a given situation, to my time with family, to the risk of prioritizing the wrong thing, and all of it. It is a concept that every single one of us can get. I heard you say start strategic with what are some of those guiding principles for you that you need to be aware of and that are going to also help kind of guide and direct and lead you. So take us through some of those other kind of mitigations and behaviors then, as we start to bring this into, okay, how does it impact, you know, my day-to-day, week-to-week life and leadership.

Nicole Schultz 22:54

Yeah, so as I started to break it leadership. Yeah, so, yeah so, as I started to break it down like it's that strategic bit of that strategic bit of how do I want to show up?

Jon Kidwell 23:02

And how do I want to show up? And those things just helped ground me. And now even, and now, even but even in the early days. It's just really. How did I want?

Nicole Schultz 23:11

to show up authentically and courageously when things felt off, courageously when things fell off course. When things fell off course, I could go and that's more tactically and then more tactically, as I am a bit of an audit, a bit of an audit I started to set I started to just a few objectives and key results.

Nicole Schultz 23:26

A few objectives and results for what were those around, what were those things I was going to do? And they didn't have to be grandiose, they didn't have to be started out as things. They just started out. And so one of the things I was encouraged to do by one of my mentors. To do by one of my mentors was just the intentionality of reaching out whether it was to sponsor somebody or whether it was to sponsorship buying my self-grown or a sponsorship to get myself grown and as a leader I think.

Nicole Schultz 23:55

And as a leader I think, so we can get busy. So everybody's busy, everybody's life is busy Some of those micro behaviors some of those micro behaviors not everybody.

Jon Kidwell 24:08

Not everybody has that sort of in their ecosystem data.

Nicole Schultz 24:13

You know, ecosystem data is just around. And so for me it was just around making sure that I was being intentional about sponsorship, whether it was speaking on behalf of somebody. Speaking on behalf of somebody so that I could help them in my care, or being intentional about their career or being intentional with somebody who's somebody who's you know, somebody who's looking for some advice or a way forward, but just being intentional and starting to kind of just starting to kind of track honestly, john like what almost track, honestly, john life and I started to.

Nicole Schultz 24:49

It sounds cheesy because it sounds cheesy, I guess I feel like.

Jon Kidwell 24:53

I guess I feel like, does it feel a bit over-engineered? Does it feel a bit over-engineered?

Nicole Schultz 24:57

It's just the intentionality. It's just the intentionality, really trying to authentically lean into the leader, authentically lean into the leader. Make those things translate. Make those things, just these broad manifesto types, broad manifesto types. What are some behaviors I want to, what are some behaviors I want to, what are some behaviors I want to? And then that's how it kind of started and then that's how it kind of started coming to this more tactical, okay, so what are some of my objectives and key results maybe it's defined cadence, and then maybe it's defined cadence and then sponsorship.

Jon Kidwell 25:30

What are some of your behaviors.

Nicole Schultz 25:32

So I are some of the behaviors. So I'm coaching honestly, what are some behaviors I want to start? What are some of the behaviors? So I'm some of the behaviors. So I'm coaching honestly, what are some behaviors I want to start? What are some behaviors I want to start working on to help level up my game. So working on to help level up my game so I can a leader that a leader again. I feel like it's a privilege to lead again. I feel like it's a privilege to have more impact and to have more impact people's careers have more impact on their life.

Nicole Schultz 25:55

People's careers have more impact on their life. Many of the things I really hold that as a message. I really hold that.

Jon Kidwell 26:02

I just I really wanted to.

Nicole Schultz 26:04

I just I really wanted to. You know, for the people under my care, try and show up For the people under my care try and show up and it was really supportive of where. Helping them was really supportive of where, and then operationally and then to execute operationally is just starting to execute monitoring.

Jon Kidwell 26:19

You're not going to get everything right monitoring and you're not going to get everything.

Nicole Schultz 26:22

Never better and to be that person, but knowing when to course to be that person and I just feel like a bit more of a disciplined and I just feel like a bit more of a just um help me do that.

Jon Kidwell 26:32

Um, maybe a bit help me do that, then I would have been maybe a bit more quickly than.

Nicole Schultz 26:36

I would have in the past, because I wasn't as aware of the things I wanted to do.

Jon Kidwell 26:42

I heard and was reading something the other day that we are always operating in the now and in the not yet. If we choose to kind of put out there what is that ideal, what is that target, what's that vision for the future of those guiding principles, and we can't act in the not yet If we choose to kind of put out there what is that ideal, what is that target, what's that vision for the future of those guiding principles, and we can't act in the not yet, we can only act in the now. And I think, for all of us listening, we were able to really get a very helpful design on how do we manage some of these risks, how do we look out and see some of the guiding principles, some of the things that we want, the things that we want for our team, the things that we want to be aware of for ourselves, bringing them down into the behaviors that you outlined. So, if you've listened today, a takeaway something to do is to go sit on this for just a minute and think about what are some of those pieces of yourself and where you are in work and some of those pieces of yourself and where you are in work and some of those risks to manage and outline. What do you want this to look like, what are some of the goals and aspirations, and then go back through what Nicole said around some of those behaviors to help operationalize it.

Jon Kidwell 27:48

And you also have a risk auditor that did, in fact, say you're not going to get a perfect, and so we, so we are keeping that on record, uh, and I'm going to just carry that with me wherever I go, cause I am also one that uh has so much fun with all of my risk friends. Uh, that, uh, that love perfection. So you said it best, nicole, I'm keeping it. Thank you so much. And, uh, before we go in, before you give us final thoughts, I do want to ask you a question, because we ask everybody and you've just given us this great kind of framework to think about how to lead well, especially when it comes to our own risks. But for you, nicole, what does it mean to you to lead well?

Nicole Schultz 28:29

I love the question, john, and I think I love the question, john, and I think for me it's really not grandiose, it's really just the belief that if I can support a few people and realize their potential, and doing that in a courageous and authentic way, then for me I would have led well then, courageous and authentic way led well for me.

Managing Risks in Business Leadership

Jon Kidwell 28:56

I would have led well. I love it. Courageous, authentic developing of others to reach potential. So amazing. Nicole, thank you so much for coming on, for sharing. You know how we all of us have it. How can we manage and be mindful, through all the risks that we bring, to be able to serve people, to do business and leadership extremely well. I am grateful for it. Thank you for spending time with us today.

Nicole Schultz 29:20

Thank you for spending the time with me, John. Thank you for spending your time with me. John and we have risk, and how that translates into the end of our leadership.

Jon Kidwell 29:32

Love it and everybody. Thank you so much for joining Nicole and I, and until next time, be well lead on, and God bless.