Embracing Failure and Grit: Lessons from Legacy Documentary Filmmaking with Chance McClain

Chance McClain is the CEO of Heritage Films and an acclaimed documentary filmmaker committed to capturing individual legacies through film. His career has been inspired by a passion for storytelling and the impact of personal legacy, profoundly influencing his leadership style and philosophy on life and business.

Chance McClain emphasizes the importance of authenticity in leadership, stressing that a great leader effectively blends vision, systems, and people. This episode highlights how Chance's work at Heritage Films has not only provided him with a unique vantage point into people's lives but also transformed his understanding of success and influence. 

Further into the discussion, Chance shares how personal stories, marked by challenges and triumphs, have influenced his leadership philosophy. Grit and discipline, according to Chance, are critical for mastery and success, overshadowing mere talent. He draws lessons from various accounts, urging leaders to embrace their blind spots, welcome constructive criticism, and simplify problems—teaching that personal growth stems from hardship and mistakes. 

Key Takeaways:

*   The role of authenticity in leadership involves maintaining a delicate balance between vision, systems, and people.
*   Personal stories hold immense power in shaping leadership philosophies and fostering personal growth.
*   Mastery and success are achieved more through grit and discipline rather than mere talent.
*   Failure is a crucial stepping stone for learning and development, providing essential life lessons.
*   Storytelling can serve as a profound tool for leadership, capable of reframing individual and collective struggles.

Notable Quotes:

"Failure is the greatest thing in the world. They're lessons. They're stepping stones."
"Simplify and solve problems—that is the distillation of what a leader should ask of his or her people."
 "Effort matters more than talent. The discipline of doing things over and over leads to mastery."
"The best stories come from the worst times—they're filled with profound lessons."
 "Live a life that your kids would want to make a movie about, so they know where they came from."

Resources:

heritagefilmsgroup.com
Book: Rocket Fuel
Book: How to Win Friends and Influence People

All episodes and guest requests can be found at:
www.leadershipmomentspodcast.com
Follow Stacey Caster on Instagram @staceycaster_
Follow Tracy-Ann Palmer on Instagram @tracy_ann_palmer

Transcript

Opening And Theme Of Leadership

SPEAKER_04 0:01

You have to walk the talk. You have to be authentic as a leader. If you're not doing it, they see that.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

It is entirely universal, just other people who are going through this.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

For me, a great leader needs to be able to marry three things: vision, systems, and people.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Welcome to Leadership Moments. If this is your first time, and if you are returning, thank you for your support.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

This show is about leaders from all walks of life, leadership tips, and maybe even a little of what you wouldn't expect to help you in leadership.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

We would appreciate it if you tell someone else about our podcast as we strive to support all leaders that want to just be better.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Let's get on with the show. I am joined by someone who has dedicated his life to capturing legacy one story at a time. Okay. From CEOs to athletes to everyday heroes, he's really had a front row seat to some of life's most powerful heroes. And in this episode, I'm so excited, we're going to dive into what documentary filmmaking has taught him about leadership, about failure, about resilience, and what we can all learn from the stories we leave behind. Chase, uh Chance, I keep saying Chase, I don't know why. Boy, oh boy, this is nuts. I I I spent over an hour with you on the phone. What am I doing? Uh but I love the fact we've got some bloopers in here. It's always good to have bloopers. Uh it makes uh it makes us a little human. Chance, welcome.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Well, thank you. And and by the way, I am a sucker for accents. So you could just keep talking and keep saying how you make me feel like an imposter. That was such a lovely uh introduction. But yeah, you could just talk all day. I love your accent and um very excited to visit with you.

Tech Shift And Personal Legacy Films

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, really. It's just uh, you know, what a great discussion we had. Uh felt like I'd have known you for years when we first spoke. Uh, and I'm so delighted that our audience is gonna get to spend some time with you today because I think uh the work you've been doing, the people you've met in your life, wow, I mean, just that in itself, you know, yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

It's been an amazing, you know, you you start you start off doing this and um it's like any other thing, it's just a job, it's just a gig. And then somewhere along the line, I started realizing holy crap, this is profound. And then I allowed myself, even though I'm interviewing people, I allowed myself to be an audience to the guidance and the lessons. And man, it has really changed me. Been doing this for a little over a decade, and I I don't think I'm any, I don't think I'm the same person.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Oh, I love hearing that. I really love hearing that. So just tell me, you know, there's sort of the story behind, I think, first of all, for the for the entrepreneurs that are with us today, there's a sort of sort of story behind Spark, you know, how the company started. And really what sparked your passion for legacy documentaries, because it's not a it's not a normal real course, okay?

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's never, you know, it's a convergence of technology that plays a big role. Like we couldn't have done this 20 years ago, or you could have, but it would have been completely cost prohibitive. And so the only documentaries you saw were people you recognized from life, you know, politicians, athletes, um, people with just profoundly incredible stories. Turns out everybody's stories are profound and everybody's stories are important, but we didn't know that until the technology allowed us to do this at a at a more accessible price point. And then the other part of it is all the documentaries that you've ever seen are made for as broad an audience as possible because you want to capture audience. And what what we try to do, our audience is very narrow. Our audience is the family that that hires us, that brings us on, it's them. They get to decide who who watches dad's film or their own film. And it allows us to get way more intimate than you would see on a on an HBO documentary. There's a wall that goes down and a comfort that that they know the person I'm interviewing has to understand. Look, your family, your progeny, that's who's gonna see this. And once they believe us, it's like we talk and it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah, that spec it just opens up, right? It's uh it's a different discussion, it's not guarded in any way, yeah.

Lessons From 800 Stories

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

You know, as I said, you've produced over 800 documentaries, which is incredible, that in itself. So when you think about uh the scale of that work, okay, what's one unexpected thing you've learned about people's lives that shapes how you lead today? You know, you've said it changed you, but how did it change you as the CEO of the company and as a leader? And you know, a leader in your own community and family and everything, you know?

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Sure. Well, I I think I I keyed on that just a second ago a little bit, where I thought, I thought I was filming the little old lady down the road. This guy hires me, it's his mom, and I go talk to her. She may have never, never even had a career, just raised the kids, but became the matriarch of the family. And and the, you know, the biggest deal in her life was that she had the perfect chili recipe. And that sounds insane. But once you get in and realize how the how the scale changes, but the in the intimacy and love and affection doesn't. Knowing that after doing it so many times made me realize that everywhere I am, every person walking around has a story. It literally things like when somebody cuts me off, I can I cannot get as mad as I would have 10 years ago because I'm like, God, that guy totally could have something going on. Like for real, stuff's going on everywhere. Uh and I think that's changed me from from you know, for the question about leadership. It's my company, I've got staff, I've got people, but I never prepping for your podcast made me think about, oh, I am a leader. I wow, okay. It would it made me process it more. And I realized that almost I don't have any original thoughts. All I have is guidance from these hundreds of people that that have lived their lives, and and I find myself in my own company. If something's not going the right way, it's uh I have some reference from some gentleman or some lady that dealt with something similar that I can say, well, you remember the Miller film when he did that? Okay, okay. Well, we're kind of doing that. Okay, can we? And so everything ends up being I'm a surrogate for all these people that I've talked to, and their lessons that they were giving to their kids, grandkids, and progeny is now mine. And I like to think it's made me a better, a better leader, a better husband, better dad, better buddy. I hope.

Listening As A Leadership Superpower

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Now you've said something that for me uh brought up something for our audience uh that I really want to capitalize on. You said you've done 800 documentaries, and that's documentaries. That doesn't mean how many people have been involved in those documentaries, right? So when I think about that, I always think about you know your power circle, the people who teach you things and the people you can get mentorship from and coaching from. Essentially what I heard is you've got this inner circle of people, because you're getting to the nitty-gritty, those deep, deep, deep, you know, stories that have really impacted how you lead today. Okay. And the reason I'm saying that is a large part of your story has been that you listen and ask questions.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

You're making me get a book already. That if you could summarize that book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, if you could summarize that book into it's that. It's it's conversations are about listening. And and if you have that extra tool in your tool belt where you realize, hey, if I can ask a short question with a long answer, this person, they're gonna feel closer with me and they're gonna become more vulnerable to share things, which is what I want for their family. So there's some mechanics behind the scene, as authentic as everything is, there's some blocking and tackling going on, and and listening is, I believe when we were when we were talking a month or so ago, I uh I just fell in love with. I was like, I I want to just talk to you. Your story is profound and important. Like we said, uh yeah, it's it's all I can do to not start asking you about your past.

Simplify And Solve Problems

SPEAKER_02 8:46

I know, and I said, okay, we'll do that after the podcast, chance, because it's my it's my it's my chance to learn about you. That's okay. So a couple of have you noticed any sort of common sort of leadership themes or even patterns that emerge as you're capturing these stories? Are there any um, you know, any even recurring value systems?

SPEAKER_04 9:12

Oh, so many. And I and you can't see it because it's I'm I'm backlit too heavily, but there's a sign behind me that says simplify and solve problems. That that is the distillation of of what a leader should ask of his or her people. At the end of the day, we used I used to think that the big words made people smart, long sentences made people seem smart and intelligent, and we kind of lean on those people. But the more successful people, and I can get into the my definition of success later, financial is certainly a component, but it's probably not the driving component. Um, more successful people I've talked to, it's the exact opposite. It is uh wisdom is from simplifying. And at the end of the day, you're solving problems, you know, all the way down to when somebody hires us to make a film, we are solving a problem. Their dad is healthy as a horse and 70 years old, but they know that you know, one way or another, 20, 30 years from now, that's not going to be the case. This is the time to solve the problem of I want my dad's stories and values so that my kids can have a little bit of leg up on their buddies. That's the problem we're solving. But everything you get into an edit and you're missing a file. Okay, solve the problem. But it's and simplify, simplifying things speeds them up. Simplifying things shows mastery. You know, the yeah, there I could go on about those, those two things are.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Oh, I love that. Simplifying things shows mastery. Oh I really love that.

Discipline Over Motivation

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Think about think about your proverbs. Oh, you asked me about the the uh takeaways and lessons. They're all there, they're just 2,000 years old, and and they did an amazing job of of oh well simplifying big complex systems into little stories and parables that work, and that is where they land. I I would probably say another thing that has been consistent that made me mad. Oh God, I could tell you a hundred things, is um like grit and um discipline is way more important than being motivated. Because motivation is like a natural thing. Like when you're it, it's a pleasant thing. I'm motivated to do something, of course I'm gonna do it. But but where where greatness comes out of doing the rote things and doing the the discipline of over and over and over, and and there's this period, it's like a uh what do you call it? It's uh oh gosh, I can't think of it. But it's one of those charts where where the where the second loop the ends the ends matter the most. Like when you're motivated, you can do it. And then there's this big middle part that sucks, and then eventually you get to where you can do it really, really well, and then that that motivation comes back, it's just more specific stuff, and and then the loop starts again. But being being disciplined, if I can find somebody that can do something over and over with pride, boy, I like that a whole lot more than somebody that walks in as just very, very talented. And we've had experience that with people that came here on the film side where they do amazing work, their reels are amazing. Um, but that's not as valuable to our to our clients as the person that spazzes out on getting it exactly right on the details, which comes from time.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah, right. Absolutely, for sure. You know, but it's it's you you've said some things, and I just want to make sure that everyone heard them. This whole concept of mastery is a really important one. And um it takes, just as you said, like I love that that part in the middle where it becomes work.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

It's not fun anymore. You just, you know, because the motivation isn't there. So that discipline and that grit, it what takes you, you know, it gets you over the hump, let's call it, to mastery. So I really love what you said there. Uh, and the fact that these are again, these are traits, you know, that you see.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

I I think uh the the concept of talent is something that we all just what when we finish today, as you're watching TV, watching the news, watching anything, look at how much we applaud talent. Oh, he's so talented, she's so talented, she's so brilliant. Uh, he's so well, talent, it's good to appreciate talent, but when you appreciate talent, you're appreciating whatever your background is, you're appreciating your maker because talent is that's what's in you. When you see somebody, like you know, there's I'd rather have the hardworking C student than the guy that coasted through with A's without effort. Effort matters, man.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Effort it matters, yeah. It matters, and there's actually nothing worse than seeing someone who is talented and not putting in the work because they're wasting the talent.

Talent, Effort, And Mastery

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Yeah, that is frustrating. And when they put them together, that's where you see the really incredible difference makers out there. The people that are because by the way, you can also have talent and things you don't like, which that again to me, that's God putting it in us. You don't like it. Whenever they say, um, well gosh, I could go on forever about problems that come up in life in people's lives and how how they deal, how they deal with it, what they end up doing. But I think it's less less of uh do what you're good at. People say do what you're good at. I say do what you're do what you're naturally uh gosh. Because you do it, not it's not do what you're good at. It's it's do it's not do what you like, it's do what you're naturally good at. My brain wasn't working. I was picturing, you know, my son really, really, really liked playing video games. Well, I don't want him, or he didn't, he knows better. But uh that doesn't mean you're gonna go make video games, you know, find some parallel thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Um, but what you're naturally gifted at, uh, you're probably gonna be happier in life if you lean into what that I haven't had children, uh, but what I say after you know, coaching hundreds and hundreds of people is if you're a parent, the best thing you can do for your child is as early as possible figure out what their gift is and steer them in the direction of their gift because their life will be easier because they will naturally become a master of the gift because it comes natural to them and it's something they love.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

And you end up in a career where you're not counting hours, where you like what you're doing. I I I'll I'll do a quick little side journey. When I graduated high school, I had had the whole world in front of me. I was I was good in school, good in good in all that stuff. I had an academic uh full ride scholarship to go to, I believe your people called it university. We call it college.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

You got in touch to go to university.

Finding Your Natural Gifts

SPEAKER_04 16:04

No, but we uh and I went and I got I got some pretty bad advice that I took. Uh I was I was majoring in radio, television, and film with a full ride, and we were broke, crazy broke. Um, but the advice was there's no money in that, so I switched to business and I failed out very, very quickly. Like I was a bad fit. Um I changed colleges and I failed out again. So it was on me. I'm not putting the blame on this person. But when you look over the course of my life, where it ended up steering me, I I ended up uh joined, eloped, got married, joined the army, was always messing around with music, wrote some songs, had some stuff go viral before things went viral, ended up working as a creative director in radio, um, got into film, made a film, ended up going to do some award show stuff, and so radio. I was on TV all the time in the in the in the zeros. I was all around it my whole life, and then left radio to do film full time. All of that was there. If if I had had more discipline back in the day to say, maybe, you know, when you're 18, you're thinking money, money, money, and the and I'm told there's no money in this, so I'm like, okay, then hell hell with that, I'm not doing that. Man, that that little 18-year-old chance knew way back then um what I needed to be doing in the world. And by the way, no regrets. I had to go through all that to be able to do what I do now, to talk to anybody and everybody. Uh so I at the end of the day, I'm grateful for that crappy advice.

unknown 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Tony, some of that is the best advice if it's, you know, if it steers you in, if it gets you to where you need to go. Now, in telling all these people stories of, you know, there's normally a lot of hardship in there, and there's also a lot of, you know, triumph. But how has your perspective uh on failure evolved over time?

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Failure is the greatest thing in the world. It really is. And if anybody's doubting it, if anybody's out there and you're in a tough spot, something happened that you weren't expecting, you didn't want, I promise you, if you can mentally get to the place and realize that bad things or failure are a stepping stone and they are lessons. When bad things happen, they're lessons. That is a lesson. If you can realize, oh, cool, now I know. I'll never do that again. And you can just, you can be so grateful that whatever that horrible thing was, if you actually apply the lesson, it's never gonna happen again. And there's a reason why in the stories that get told, um, you know, I I mentioned before we were recording that we we send out forms to people. So I'm gonna know a little bit about them when I'm visiting with them. And one of the things that they write down is basically landmines. Hey, I don't want to talk about this. And it can be things like the Vietnam War, the Korean War, or the loss of a child. Well, I thought when I put that that that people might want to steer clear of, oh yeah, man, in 1984, my business we went bankrupt. Chapter 11, it was a nightmare. We house got foreclosed. But dude, uh to a man, to a woman, every one of them, those are the stories they want to tell. They want their kids and grandkids and greats to know here's what went wrong. Oh my God, I had, I was, I was operating out of a place of pure ego, and bam, the rug is yanked out. And here's what I learned from that. That that all comes the best stories, the best stories come from the worst times.

Reframing Failure As Fuel

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Yeah. And I love that you said that because I'll tell you, I've had some of those stories on this podcast, and I have personally walked away, you know, and spent two hours telling my husband, you know, the lessons I learned in that 30 minutes, you know. I so one of the reasons I love doing this podcast is because I'm learning from people like you of just all these amazing things that, you know, I don't want to learn the lesson again. Someone else has already learned the lesson. Let's go and learn from them, right? That's that circle of power and influence around. Us. Now you think you know, all the storytelling that you're involved in, do you think that that can be a leadership tool for helping others overcome their own setbacks? Like, you know, how how do the stories you know you've told sort of help people reframe struggle? Because this is what we're talking about. We're talking about that failure. And and, you know, as you said, the people you you interview, they want to tell their stories to their generations. They want to do that because they want them to learn from that.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Because they're they've been around the sun enough times that they know. So okay, I have this working theory that the only way to really learn something is via pain or sacrifice. Okay. Which, and and if you go back to in grade school and you're having to memorize, the memorizing is boring. That's a version of pain or sacrifice. Well, that repeats itself everywhere. Where we it's like think of it as branding like a cattle brand into your brain. That is how things truly get learned. And and again, I have to reiterate, this is just from talking to people way smarter than me, people that have been through way more than me. People I've I've done 27 World War II vets. I've filmed Korea. The war stories are fantastic. The I don't mean they're terrible, but they're they're they're they're they're fantastic uh lessons. I've had people, I have had two gentlemen in particular that I did their films and our our our friendship endured and they turned into mentors. Uh, one of them is still is still my mentor right now, and uh another one I lost. Um we very quick story was we we did his film in August because he wasn't supposed to see Christmas. So month eight to month 12. This this guy had you know multiple pancreatic cancer, liver cancer. He he was he was checking out. He ended up beating it and lived for five more years. And over those five years we became very close friends. He was a farmer. What the hell do I have to do with farming? It doesn't matter. He he was a uh a person who grew a big business whose family loved him to tears. That that's a that's a mentor right there. That's what you want.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Totally. Oh my gosh, totally. So talking about that, what is uh you spoke about these two people who became mentors, and what is um one of the the best interviews you've done when it comes to sort of changing you?

Mentors, Memory, And Meaning

SPEAKER_04 22:28

Yeah, they would be number one. The gentleman I was just talking about, his name's Jacko, Jacko Garrett, the farmer guy. He taught me, and I am so pissed because that we weren't rolling. So the short version is he was going through a period in his life 10 years or so before his wife was dying of cancer back then. Um, and they were farmers. It's a big farm, like thousands of acres, but at the end of the day, they're still farmers. Well, instead of getting up at five in the morning for this period of like six months, he was getting up at three in the morning. And so he had just told all those stories, and you know, we cut, and I'm just sitting there, he he's on his iPhone, just flipping through his phone, and I was like, damn, Jacko, dude, that must have been hard. I'm just talking to him as a person, and he he looks up from me, he's like, Pardon me? I said, I said, that with your wife getting up, that must have been hard. He said, What's hard got to do with anything? And I was like, Well, it it was hard. He's like, Chance, don't hard is just an it's just an adjective, it's just a word. These things had to get done. And I kind of filed that there. Later in the conversation, something similar happened, and I said, dude, you must have been exhausted. You must have been tired. And he's like, Why does tired have to do with anything? I still gotta milk the cow or whatever it was. What is tired? And then the last one was he asked me how I was doing, and I and I told him, I said, dude, Jacko, I am so busy. And he's like, Don't you own your own company? I said, Yes, sir. He's like, then don't ever use busy as a complaint. Be grateful. And then he went back to busy, tired, and hard. You need to stop complaining to people that you say you like. You need to stop complaining as a per. And I'm like, I never thought of those three words as complaints. I think about complaints as, oh, I had a blowout, or so, no, no, no, no. There's these tiny complaints that we have just grown so accustomed to that they're a part of our life. And I'll challenge you again. I I dude, I know these lessons and I screw up 50 times a day. It's try not to express that you're busy, tired, uh, that busy is bad, that you're tired or something's hard. And then when you try not to express it, eventually you try not to even feel it. And so now, hypothetically, when you get a new basset hound puppy and you didn't sleep last night, I'm not thinking about being tired right now. I'm thinking I got to play with a puppy last night. I get to have this great conversation with you.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yeah. You know, it's really interesting. So do you do you have a new Bassett Hound puppy? I do. You know, it's just so happy. I caught it. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Subtle, subtle.

Busy, Tired, Hard: Stop Complaining

SPEAKER_02 25:07

You know what's really funny about that. When people call me up and they go, Oh, I'm so sorry. I know that you're so busy. I get I get frustrated because I'm like, I don't even know what that means. Yeah, we're all busy, but that's not the point. Like, you always have time for the things that are important. You just do you make it, you make it happen. You may I mean, I'll tell you, Chance, I get up at three o'clock in the morning too, because I love it. And that's because I'm busy. But guess what? It's not a complaint, it's because I want to be busy.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

Yes, yeah. I do, I'm an early riser and I'm a and I go to bed late and I try to fill my day up with as much as possible. And then sometimes overnight I tend to a basset hound.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

I maybe just a little. So I need picks of that little basset hound. You seem to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

He's the best. You got it. 100%. It's all that's on my phone. That and pictures of films I've been doing.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

So I have to ask something else. You know, uh, it takes a lot of creativity and inspiration, right? To do the work you're doing. And you've been doing it for a long time. Uh so what what really uh how do you stay creative? What sort of fuels your purpose uh compared to maybe when you started? Because I think it changes over time.

Staying Creative And Raising Standards

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Oh, sure. Um, so like my my my hero uh mentor, if you want to call it that, uh I love Walt Disney the man. I love what he did. I love oh, I've read every book on him. I I just I can't get enough of Walt and Roy, too. My wife and I are kind of a tandem in the Walt Roy sense where Walt's the visionary, that's me, and my wife is the Roy character. She's the the uh integrator. If you've read the book uh Rocket Fuel, we read that. So um what keeps me motivated? Walt Walt obsessed with with quality, but it was never just the quality of the film. He wanted the experience for the finished product. He wanted the people that saw the film or saw Disneyland or his big dream, Disney World. He wanted the experience for the participants to be amazing. He wanted the actual physical film or theme park to be amazing, or cartoon, or all the different things he did. But he also cared about the people, the creators, the imagineers, the artists, the pen, the uh inkers, all of them. He wanted them to love what they're doing. Um and I think somewhere along the line, I from reading Walt, this wasn't natural. I started thinking maybe let's let's try to make these better and better and better and better. Still run a business, still let's we don't want to take a year to do that. We still want to have it's art, so eventually you got to cut it off, but try to make them better and better and better. And and the more you try to make something better, you end up forcing up it it forces creativity because you've got a timeline, you've got this, you've got limited resources, that's where creativity is born. And so that's and then the other thing is that by changing what I consumed, like I want to be a creator, not a consumer, but I'm human and I'm gonna watch things. Well, maybe five or six years ago, I I basically changed all of my consumptive patterns to turn into things that are like business. Like I always crappy, horrible, didn't know the first thing about business. I just knew I could make films and knew I loved people. Well, then I started thinking about okay, I got to run a business and I want to be successful and I want to have something to leave my kids. I want all this. So I started to so then I switched all of my all of the podcasts I was listening to from sports and stuff to business and business philosophy and self-improvement and the books I was reading, from John Grisham books to Jim Collins, Think and Grow Rich. And I could just rattle off all these books I've read. And then after you get, then you realize, oh, it can't just be entertainment. I got to read these books and get better. So then it turned into reading books and taking notes and then trying to apply. Thank God my wife is on the same page. So it becomes our morning coffee time. We drink coffee together and visit about what happened yesterday, how are we getting better? Um, and then the film, you know, I I still want to see all of the all of the movies that are out there just to be a participant in society, but my own individual viewing habits has switched into documentaries, which I've always liked them, but now I try to watch them with a critical eye. And how can I watch this show, like there's one right now on Netflix about catching uh Osama bin Laden? And I was watching it, and I was definitely interesting seeing things about what happened from 2001 to 2011 chasing that guy down. But I'm watching it about camera angles, and I wonder what light that is, and I wonder where that is, and why that why'd they make that cut there? They didn't cut soon enough. And I realized last night I'm watching this with a critical eye. I'm watching this as a filmmaker, not as a consumer. So even now, even now, I'm in the creative process. I don't know if I answered your question. You did. You totally did.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it. Now, if you had to boil down, you know, what you've learned creating these films into you know one one sort of core belief about humanity.

Consuming Better To Create Better

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Gosh. There's more good out there than we think. Um, like I have a Pollyanna view of America, of Earth, because the people that that it's a multifaceted reason why. It's not just that I'm going to film some 70, 80, 90 year old person. That's a given. It's that 75% of my clients are their children or grandchildren. So these people had to be raised a certain way that they're that they want the values of their parents. They love their parents, they honor their parents. They so my clients are all awesome. They want to honor their parents. Well, then I go spend all my time with these insanely great people that raise children that that roll that way. So I have I have this view of society that I can readily put turn it on the news and I can see that it's certainly not ubiquitous, but I promise you, it's out there. They're all there's so much goodness, there's so much, so much happiness and goodness that is there in the non-digital world.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, I love that. So if there was one piece of advice, leadership advice you wish every person uh, you know, could take away from your work, what would that be?

Core Belief: Most People Are Good

SPEAKER_04 31:33

It would be I I don't know if it's right because I only have my brain, I only have myself, but I've had to combat what I would call ego or um or self. I've had I've had to learn that you know, through all my years, all the careers, all the all this stuff, Broadway musical. I've done so much different crap. And all along the way, what I really, really wanted, I can admit now that I wanted it, I wanted attention. I didn't even want success. I stole thunder from my kids. My kids were into musical theater, so I wrote a show and it ended up going to New York, and we all got to go to New York. And now, my God, was it really about my kids or was it about me? And um, it's only from all these people whose kids have hired me to film their parents that it enough of that osmosis wore off of these people that I realized that that my motivations were that I had a blind spot. Uh, and I think we all do, but I had a big one. And um, and I as leaders, I it would be check check your six. That's I was in the army too, so that's an army phrase. Check, check what's behind you, check what you're check what you're missing, and get get yourself a trusted person that will call it like it is, embrace criticism. I don't when we when we send our films to our clients, there's a review process where they watch the movie and we're checking for spelling, or did you know did dad tell a story about your sister wet in the bed that was hilarious? But you're like, my sister's gonna freak, take that out. I want to know very often through the review process, people write comments, they're like, oh my God, this is the best. I love what y'all did here. This is cool. And I just those don't help me. They they let us know what we do right. That's good. But what I want to know is where did where's our blind spot? What did we think worked that didn't? Yeah. Um, so the big piece of leadership advice is know that you have blind spots, find a person or people, like a coach, like the some of the work that you do. Trust your coaches. They're they're there to help you. They're not just there to make money, they are there to help you or they wouldn't exist. Um and then be take the constructive criticism, and then don't, it's not water off a duck's back. It's there to help you, apply it.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I think watch your six, right? I mean, that's the that blind spot is it's real. It's real. We all have pride and ego, and we've got to check it at the door, you know. Now, finally, you know, what's the legacy you hope to leave behind? You know, not just through heritage forms, but through the way you sort of you've you've led your life and the work you the work that has really changed you.

Leadership Advice: Check Your Blind Spots

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Through the company, my daughter graduated from Texas AM last year and she graduated on Saturday and started working with us on Monday and got married three weeks later because that's what Aggies do. We like the kid though, so we're good. Uh I hope that I hope that that she takes the company over. Or my son has his own business. If if he wanted to merge or come here, I would love for my kids to carry this on and do this forever. I believe so deeply in the mission of what of what we do here. Um at a more personal level, it's to be a light, be good, be seen as good. I think we all want, we all want something. I was wrestling with this last night for a totally different reason about really trying to distill down what it is that I want. And and it's it feels kind of narcissistic, but I want to be respected, liked, appreciated, all those type of things. But I want to do it through the work that I'm doing and and through, you know what? Here's a good way to say it. I I said that I could my definition of success is different. I've actually already said it. It's I want to live a life that my kids would go. I want to make his movie so that my kids and their kids can know where the hell they came from. That that is what I want.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

I love that. I love that. That is so awesome. Well, listen, I've got a few fun questions for you.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

All right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

But what an incredible conversation. You know, uh, chance, you know, you just reminded us that leadership um it isn't just about what you build. It's about how you remembered and the stories that we choose to tell, right? And the the stories that others choose to tell about us represents the life we we we've led, right? So the fun question uh would you rather have the ability to teleport anywhere instantly or be able to speak every language fluently?

SPEAKER_04 36:08

Speak every language. So thing you didn't learn about me is I am a spaz for the English language. I love the history of the English language. I've read books on it. I love what I love, I love it. I love knowing that in 1066 French merged with it. And we've got Greek in it, we've got uh Roman in it, all the I I love the so the and then I love how languages are constructed, not just our language, but other languages. And I would want instantly, not just to have the words and to be able to communicate, but my little brain, the narcissist in me is back. I want to see how the way people frame sentences and thoughts to turn into to turn into communicating. I would I would absolutely love that's what I want to do. I'm never gonna retire, but when I have more time, I'm just gonna dive into French and Spanish and German and Japanese and all of them.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Yeah, that's so cool. That's awesome. So, second question would you rather have the power to read minds or the ability to time travel?

Legacy, Family, And Succession

SPEAKER_04 37:09

That I I picked that because it's the hardest one for me. And I'm like, yeah, get the hardest one. I think I would time travel because I live in history. I live in this, it's a different version of history that I live in. It's a granular history. Um, we've certainly done some films from people that everybody in your audience would know, which is cool. Um, I tend to take, I tend to take more away from the, like I mentioned, the little lady down the street. Um, because the people that are famous, they've kind of got the camera thing down and they're putting on a bit of a show sometimes. Um but to go back in time and to see, I would want to go back in time as a fly on the wall just to see, again, to satisfy that curiosity of what was it like, how were things, what not even so much as what really happened, but I just want to see, I'd want to see what it was, what what was going on? What were the what were the multi-sensor? What was it multi-sensorily worts in all? You know, we all romanticize the old West, but you gotta think everything was stinky.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Totally. Yeah, totally like being that fly on the wall, you know, there's no better view, right?

SPEAKER_04 38:13

Totally, yeah. And I guess it makes sense when you realize I'm a filmmaker and I'm on the other side of the camera. I'm I like to I like to see.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yeah, totally. So last question Would you rather live in a house with a view? An incredible view, should I say, or a house with the most comfortable interior?

SPEAKER_04 38:31

Okay, this this one, I answered it this way because I'm I literally try to be so so honest. And the very truth is that it would be the comfortable interior. And I love a good view. I love a good view, but I think I kind of skew towards Clark Griswold whenever whenever he's on vacation, where they go to the Grand Canyon, he's like, Okay, there it is. We saw it. Let's go. A view, a view is a temporary experience, and I'm all about experience. Whereas a cozy house, good conversation, some good bourbon. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

No, another bourbon man. I I married, I married a bourbon man.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 39:15

That's funny. So, Chance, it's just been absolutely fantastic having you on the show today. And uh, I know this is the beginning of a true friendship over time because it's hard not to uh it's hard not to sort of just you know feel this sort of connection when you're talking to someone who has the same values and cares about people, you know. So uh really, really appreciate the time and all of the amazing leadership like this that you've shared with us.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

Oh, and I just want to thank you. You you're very, very you're good at what you do. You're you would you would be good at my job, okay? Yeah, it's it's you're thoughtful and inquisitive and did your homework, and it it it's an honor that you're giving to your guests. And so, on behalf of all of us that have been on your show, thank you. Um yeah, thank thank you. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Yeah, you're so welcome. It's just uh it's I learned so much uh from people like you and uh that to me is just such a privilege and an honor. So it's just been wonderful having you on the show. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

And plus we're state we're we're state mates.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

I know I know and you know what's really funny yesterday uh I had told uh my aunt my dad's sister who apparently has got all the C family secrets okay so I'll be keeping this one as a nugget for you uh that my husband and I are going to be married for 25 years on the 1st of January 010101.

Rapid-Fire Fun Questions

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Oh how cool listen to this she says oh I didn't know if you know that but that's your great granddad and your granddad's wedding anniversary and you didn't know I had no idea okay how cool is that we we have a term for that at heritage films we call those echoes when you hear something in the deeper past that that represents itself sometimes it's you know oh your granddad was a piano player and you got a son that's a yeah you got an echo that's beautiful I got an echo I was like oh my god that is so cool and I'm like auntie Pat I gotta call you what's going on oh that's good congratulations on 25 coming up that's uh that's that's good for you yeah and uh yeah and he is uh he is my soulmate and the love of my life and my best human being in the world so good it's good you got I I I got a pretty decent one we're at 32 so uh oh wow that's awesome yeah I couldn't say almost cursed I couldn't say crap when my kids were my daughter got married at 20 to 22. I got married at 21 so I couldn't say anything.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

You didn't say a word exactly okay so for our audience if today's episode inspired you please follow leadership moments and share with someone who needs to hear this message and uh hear what Trance had to share with us today. And remember you know every moment is a chance to lead with intention with grace with courage. So until next time I'm Tracy Ann Palmer this is my wonderful guest Trance McCain and remember together we all make a difference.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

If you enjoyed the show please go to leadershipmoments podcast dot com to subscribe to the podcast or on your favorite player as well as follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

You can also send us a message on what you like and don't like or what guest you want us to have on the show. So until next time this is Stacy Castor and what does it challenge you won't change you.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

And I'm Tracy Ann Palmer be the change you wish to see in the world