Bridging Generational Gaps in Leadership w/ Lee Caraher

Lee Caraher is a renowned communication strategist, CEO of Double Forte PR, and an accomplished author. Known for her practical solutions and "professional straight talker" style, Lee expertly guides companies in achieving business goals through effective communication. She specializes in building and retaining intergenerational teams, emphasized in her books "Millennials and Management" and "The Boomerang Principle." Her leadership philosophy underscores the importance of authentic communication as the glue that binds leadership, culture, and performance.

Lee sheds light on the intricacies of ensuring effective communication, emphasizing the need for leaders to establish clarity and consistency in their messaging to avoid misunderstandings. She challenges the assumption that head nodding signifies understanding and emphasizes the importance of genuine dialogue. Lee also discusses strategies for fostering meaningful communication across different professional and generational perspectives to bolster leadership development and organizational performance.

Key Takeaways:

• Head-nodding doesn't equate to understanding; leaders must ensure their team truly comprehends by encouraging questions and dialogue.
• Specificity in communication, especially around deadlines and expectations, can minimize conflict and improve team alignment.
• Leaders need to listen more than they talk and seek input from all levels of their organization, particularly those who don't speak up.
• Cultural and generational differences can impact workplace communication, highlighting the need for a shared language and understanding.

Notable Quotes:

• "It is not enough for you to have people excited. You have to make sure they all heard the same thing, they all understood the same thing."
• "You need to listen more than you talk."
• "Pay attention to the people who are nodding and not talking. Pay attention to people who don't talk."

Resources:

• Lee Caraher's Books:
  • Millennials and Management
  • The Boomerang Principle

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www.leadershipmomentspodcast.com
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Transcript

Opening Thoughts On Leadership

SPEAKER_03 0:01

You have to walk the tongue. You have to be authentic as a leader. If you're not doing it, they see that.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

It is entirely universal. There's other people who are going through this.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

For me, a great leader needs to be able to marry three things: vision, systems, and people.

Welcome And What We Cover

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to Leadership Moments if this is your first time. And if you are returning, thank you for your support.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

This show is about leaders from all walks of life, leadership tips, and maybe even a little of what you wouldn't expect to help you in leadership.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

We would appreciate it if you tell someone else about our podcast as we strive to support all leaders that want to just be better. Let's get on with the show.

Meet Communication Strategist Lee Carriher

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Today our guest is Lee Carriher. Lee is a communication strategist, CEO, author, and professional straight talker, known for her practical solutions to big problems. She runs 44K PR, a national communications agency working with well-known consumer, tech, financial, and wine brands, and spends most of her time helping companies achieve their business goals through communication and with leaders to say what they actually mean, especially when the stakes are high. Lee is the author of Millennials and Management, which came out of her own hard-earned lessons, trying and sometimes failing to build and retain intergenerational teams. Her second book, The Boomerang Principle, makes the case that actively seeking former employees to return is an undervalued strategy for long-term success. Lee believes communication isn't a soft skill. It's the glue that holds leadership, culture, and performance together. Today we're going to talk about ways that you're communicating, making sure that your communication is actually understood and how to communicate amongst all professional people. Okay, we're going to redo that. Today we're going to talk about ways to communicate to your team, with your team, hear from your team, and make sure that everyone is on the same page. Let's jump in.

Why Leaders Think It’s Clear

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Lee, I'm so excited for our conversation today because when we were talking earlier before the show, we talked a lot about communication and how people think they're communicating, but they're not really communicating. And that's one of my leadership philosophies is communicate, communicate, communicate, because the first time you do it, it doesn't work. And so I'd love to start with how leaders believe they've communicated something and they feel really good about it. And maybe that's not the case. So let's talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

You know what's interesting about this? I mean, it's always not the case uh for the first time out, because you know, before you said something, you've been thinking about it a lot. And so the first time you think, you say it out loud, you you a s so many leaders are assuming that people can just catch up to them, but they've been thinking about it for ages, right? Um, I had a I just um was talking to a CEO I'm we're helping with on this change management stuff, and um he had his first meeting with his leadership team on the plan.

The Head Nod Trap

SPEAKER_00 3:05

And I said, How did the meeting go? And he goes, It was great. I everybody got it. I said, Oh, well, how do you know? How do you know? Well, everybody was nodding and I said, Did they say anything? Not really, but everyone was nodding. No, that was awesome. And Bob, it's not his real name. Uh, Bob, that means they didn't get it. If they were just nodding and they weren't talking, no one got it. And he was like, What are you talking about? Everybody was nodding. That is the universal thing, you know, sign for understanding. That no, that is a universal sign for I don't want to be the idiot in the room. So uh I think that's uh hard the hard truth, right, is that you have to you can never you're never done. You have to say it over and over and over again until someone can finish your sentence. And when you are ready to talk, you need to bring everybody to up to speed with the three or four months that you just had thinking about it. Because you can't assume that they're gonna you've you've just needed this idea, just they just did, just they figured things out, and then you lay it out. And if your assumption is that you're gonna get that message across in one meeting, uh, you got another thing coming.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, that's a really good point, right? The head nod doesn't mean I agree. It might mean I have no idea, but I'm just going with it.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Seriously, I had this professor in college who would, you know, you'd be talking, what's your thesis, Lee? And I'd be like, And you'd be like uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. No, that's wrong. So nodding might mean they're listening, but a nodding does not mean they're aligned and does not mean they're understanding. And really, you don't know it that you've got it until people push back and people ask questions. And when people ask questions, that means they're actually clocking how it's gonna enter, you know, oh, what does that mean for me? And that and that is the like, you know, at the seminal level, we all want to know what the change means for us. What does this mean for me? And if you get a question that says, oh, so this will change and that will change, that means people are paying attention. If you just get the nod and you're about to like turn things upside down, which everybody is doing, everybody is turning everything upside down. No one's not turning things up right now, right? Then it's just like, holy crap, what's about to happen? Uh, I don't know what the hell he's talking about. So um you the head nod is not it. And if you did all the talking, you did a presentation, not a conversation. Uh, and that's the burden of being the leader is having to repeat yourself until you die.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah. Well, I love the presentation versus conversation because a lot of times leaders go in thinking, I'm presenting our plan, I'm presenting what our goals are, I'm presenting our vision. But I love changing that to, no, I'm having a conversation with my team about our goals. And some of that might be telling them what we're doing or asking them how they agree. So if you're getting head nods, what do you suggest for leaders to do to start getting people to ask questions if they're if they're not doing it

Getting Questions Without Shame

SPEAKER_01 6:11

on their own?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah. Well, I think that that's always intimidating, right? Because no one wants to have the first stupid question. Uh, and depending on how well everybody knows each other, too, you know, every there's a whole range of, you know, togetherness on teams, right? From everybody hates each other to everybody's kumbayang. So, you know, depending on where you are, but still no one wants to be the first, right? So I think a good first question is let me stop here. I know this is a lot, just acknowledge it. It this is a lot. Let me what questions should we be asking? Or what questions do you think your team's gonna ask? So it's not about that person not getting it, it's about their team not getting it when they tell them. So you've re you've relieved them of being the idiot in the room. And then they get to say, well, I you know, I think Janice is gonna ask about this, or you know, the comms team is gonna want to know this, or and you know, aka I want to know. But if you don't have to say, I don't understand, then you're gonna get a much more fleeing conversation and a dialogue across the team. And that's really what you need. Because if you are the leader and you have a team and your team's gonna go out to the bigger team, if they are not living and breathing and they can't finish your sentence, don't let them go. Do not let them leave the room to go deliver your message because they can't, right? So one thing you can do is like don't make it about them, make it about their people. What are your pe what questions do you think we should be ready for from your team? And that way they can you'll get a million questions immediately. Immediately, because it won't be about their it's not about their competence, it's about everybody else's.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, I I love that. What an easy way to make it safe for people to bring stuff up.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And particularly during change, right? Change is hard. And state, you know, psychological safety, no matter how much you've been working on it, and I think most companies have been working on it, no matter how you've been working on it, everybody's waiting for the shoe drop right now. So how do you like let that go? Yeah, that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Um, so let's talk about okay, questions are asked, everyone in the room aligns.

Duck Or Rabbit Shared Meaning

SPEAKER_01 8:18

They all say, Yep, we're aligned, we're doing this. You leave the room, and the next day, people are doing something totally different than what you thought you aligned to. So there was definitely not an understanding there about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So this is my one of my favorite images. I'm gonna know for the people who are listening, they can't see it, but I'm gonna show it here. So this is an image of depending on who, if you're looking at it, you either see a duck or a rabbit. Um, you see a duck or a rabbit. It's the same image. And statistically, half the people see a duck, and half the people see a rabbit. This is from like the 1860s or something. So half the people see a duck, half people see a rabbit. So you got half the people. You got nothing. Until you get 100% of the people, you got nothing. So it is not enough for you to have people excited. You have to make sure they all heard the same thing, they all understood the same thing. It is not a one and done. And then people, until your teams, okay, what is what has changed? And you really need to go around the room, and it may not be around the room at that time, but here's what it means for marketing, here's what it means for product. Don't assume people get it. Uh and you might be iterating that yourself. So, Joe, uh, what do you think this means for marketing? Let's talk about what that means for your team. Like what changes are gonna happen. And if Joe says, Oh, I don't see any changes, he did not get it, right? So you really there is no one and done in change management, right? You you gotta spend a lot of time, a lot of time so that the leaders of those different groups can actually deliver the message. And if half the people see a duck and half the people see a rabbit, first you gotta figure out who saw what. You don't know what they saw. They have to tell you what they saw. So um if they can't people can meet so everybody got it, you think everybody everyone's aligned. Yes, I got it. You know what I have to go deliver. They don't get to deliver that next piece until they uh demonstrate that they can deliver your intent.

Proving Understanding Without Micromanaging

SPEAKER_01 10:26

So, how can they demonstrate that and not feel like they're being micromanaged?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah. So I think one thing to do is um let them go away, not try to micromanage it, but you know, you've laid something out. I assume there's some piece of paper involved, right? Or there's a deck or something. Please, not three bullets on a slide for 15 slides. Oh my god. But there's a deck, and then the next step is okay, I want to have um, we're gonna have um the next step, everyone's gonna be um presenting what it means for them, what the what this change will affect in each group. Because, hey, everybody, there's a change for everybody here. So you've already set the expectation that there's a change for everybody, and so it's gonna range depending on who you are. The change will range, but there's gonna be a change for everybody. So, and because we're all interdependent, there's no, we're not in silos, even if we are operate in silos, we don't work in silos. One silo could impact the other silo. So um, everyone is going to present how uh this new direction is gonna impact their teams and how they're gonna work differently uh to make this goal happen. And we're gonna do that in the next three weeks. So I'm very happy to meet with you before your presentation. We can have small groups, whatever you want to do. Um, I encourage you to do that, but I don't mandate that. Uh, and then make it working sessions. So the question that everyone has to answer, ask at the end of their presentation of here's how it's gonna impact my team, is to say, what am I missing? That's a question everyone's gonna have to ask because you're not gonna get everything. So just set the expectation that you're gonna have to ask the question of everybody, what am I missing? How could I do it better? So that way you're also alleviating the um pressure of having to get it perfect and having not to have the blinders on. Now, of course, someone's gonna come in swinging like, I got it all figured out. But if you force them to say, How can I make it better? What question, what am I missing, then you force it. Force forced the discussion and the collaboration, right? So even if you know the biggest jerk in the room, I don't need anybody to help. If you force them to take the help and then they don't do it, then there's accountability right there, right there. We were in the same room. We had the meeting at the end, right?

Communication Cadence Between Meetings

SPEAKER_00 12:46

And the other piece of that is um people also assume they can just have the meeting and then there's nothing in between. No, you have the meeting, then you send the email, then you have the stopby, then you have looking forward to your meeting next week. Have any questions for me beforehand? I mean, you've got to manage and communicate this thing through all the way through. And you know, in the end, good teams talk. Good teams talk all the time. And if the leaders don't talk, no one's gonna talk. So, or they're gonna talk about you. So let them talk among us, not about you.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, it's so true about teams talking with each other, like when everyone's nodding their head as you're saying, that's not a great team. Having those hard conversations, challenging each other, that is a healthy team. That is that where people feel safe and they're helping improve everyone because they all believe in the same cause and moving their company forward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Right. And when I was in on the corporate side, not the agency side, you know, I um uh I should not play poker ever. Because I, you know, hello, it's right on my face. And I remember in a meeting and uh my colleague, you know, VP of marketing, I think he's like, that looks like it's gonna bug you, Lee. I'm like, yeah, it's gonna bug me. How do you how do you figure that out? Face. Yep, yep. I don't have time. I have to read the confusion, right? None. Right here.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I love that. Yeah, so true, so true. Definitely the room, not just the words. Exactly.

How To Speak Up Upward

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Okay, so let's flip it. Let's say that you're one of the leaders that's being, and it's your leader standing up in front of the room, and they're saying stuff, and you're like, I don't know, right? Or I'm not understanding, but you're not feeling comfortable asking those questions or challenging those questions because of who that leader is and how they show up. What are some things that you would tell those leaders to do and why is it important that they speak up?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

As the leader or for me being the leader, the leader receiving the information. Right. Okay, great. So I think that you know it happens every all the time, right? So one, hopefully, yeah, if you if you're worried about the reception, your question or your pushback will get. How do you reframe the question so it's not a challenge to the thesis, but it could impact the implementation, right? So one thing you can say is this is a lot, Joe. Wow, this is big. This is Joe, and I think I think I get it. I think this is gonna have a big impact. I really need to sit with this and think about how I can bring this back to the team and how I'll just you know, how customer service is gonna be able to bring this to life. And um, I already can think of some questions people might have, but let me think about it first. Let me let me come back to this group and ask some questions later. So that way you've you don't aren't on the step right now to say, I have a question right now. You've acknowledged the big thing, right? You gotta acknowledge the big thing. If you just say this sucks, it's never gonna work, you know, just there's the door, right? Um, and so your responsibility is to figure out a way to make it work and to improve improve the product, uh, or at least try. So, one, if you say, This sounds wow, this is big, I need to sit with it, I need to think about how this is gonna impact my team and how we can support everybody else. Well, I'd like to have um, I'd like to go back and talk about a couple of my people and then you know, just set it up so that um, and then you can also say, and I think I need to talk to marketing too to see how they would want it to be, and then to product because it seems like there'd be some changes in product scheduling. You can just articulate the things you're worried about, but not make it about you, make it about you helping solve the problem, and then putting a delay, putting in a delay to having to solve the problem, to have to push back. Don't you're not pushing back, you're just saying, wow, I see a lot of implications. Let me think about it and come back with some questions. And that way, one, I think the response will be they listened, they get it, it's a big F and deal. Um and hopefully, you know, even a person who wants you just to get it immediately. Um, if you spread the wealth on there, I need to talk to marketing, I need to talk to whoever, you know, to make sure I I I'm we're fully aligned in how we can support, uh, at least they have an ally in the room to actually move the ball down the field. Um, and that way you're you're not saying they're an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

So let's

Leading Across Generations With Definitions

SPEAKER_01 17:21

talk about. So this is like communication leader to leader and understanding and and in general, but you actually uh I think you have a couple books, but you've done a lot of work around generational workforce. And I've done some work in generational workforce, and I think it's so important to be able to understand across the generations and how to lead across the generations. And I would just love your insight, you know, to hear for our listeners to hear on what are some key things that um, you know, this is that I'm casting a wide net, so you can take it wherever you want, but what are some key things that leaders should consider when they are working across generations?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I think what I learned myself in my first book was Millennials and Management about how I almost killed my company because I didn't understand millennials, um, is definitions change for words over generations. So a good example of this is end of day. End of day to people my age means five o'clock. That's the end of day. That's end of the workday. It is not the end of day for anyone who is under 40 right now. Because anyone under 40 had a deadline in high school and in college that was internet enabled. So it was 11.59.59 p.m. was the deadline in college to get it, or even sometimes even high school. So they hear end of day, and it's 11:59. in their own time zone. And most companies are working across time zones all the time. People are traveling, all the things. So you said end of day, they got end of day. Their definition of end of day was 11:59, 59 p.m. wherever the hell they were. So they were right and wrong at the same time. Um, so the first thing um that was my first revelation when I was trying to unpack like what the hell just happened um on this problem. And so for my company, the first thing we've done is to drive specificity into every deadline. And a lot, yeah, I would say probably more than half of conflict in business happens around deadlines. You relate. Why is it this way? Why isn't it a Google Doc or whatever it is? So specificity around the by around the deadline drives out easily half of conflict in AC. And what I mean by that is this. Um, this is due in word format by email on Tuesday uh March 24th, whatever March 24th. You may not, you don't have to say the year in general. March 24th, 2026 at 4 p.m. Central Time Zone. So you've said what format it's in. You said when by what how are they supposed to get it? So not by Monday, not by Google, by email. You said when they need to get deliver it by in time zone time. So you've given you've stripped out all questions. What what time of day do they mean? Well, it's four o'clock my time. No, you've said exactly when, exactly what day, exactly when, and you've said what format, and you said by what. So that specificity alone can drive out 50% of conflict in business. And when we started doing that, it's I mean, Lee, everybody gets it. No, they don't. And so my team, who is old pretty much in my age range, they're like, Lee, this is dumb. I'm like, really? Okay, let's try it. You say end of day for the next week. We'll see what happens. And literally, people will bald by the end of that week because they're like, oh my god, they didn't get it. I'm like, I told you. How did I know? Well, I went and found out why these six people quit within three weeks of each other because they were like, I'm not gonna work till midnight. I'm like, no one's asking you to work till midnight. What are you talking to? You kept saying end of day. Oh my god. I had no idea. And then they would send something to me. This is again, this is a while ago. They sent me a Google Doc. I'm like, a Google Doc that wasn't finished with like all the edits in it. I'm like, this is not no, I need something that I'm I'm the president of the company. I'm not looking at your edits. I'm looking at what you think is going to the client. Oh, but you didn't say that leave. All right, well now I'm gonna say it. Because that's people are being educated in a whole different way than they have to work. You know, and the big the big divide between education, a school, no matter what, and work is uh A, there's grades. There's all you're getting graded in school on a scale. So you get an A, you pass, a B, you pass, C you pass, D, you pass. In business, we're looking for A's every day. It's not ready until it's ready. Uh and they didn't have to do that. If you didn't want to get the A, you didn't care. You know, um there's no social promotion and it's a big switch, right? And there's awesome negotiation. There's a lot of grade negotiation. I could talk about this for days, Stacey. You know, social promotion, grade inflation, grade negotiation, all those things that goes away as soon as you get a job. And that's really hard. It's really hard. So for generations, I think I'm hearing a lot. I mean, I did about millennials, and all I'm hearing about Gen Z now, they have no initiative. They're not getting paid for they think they're not getting paid for initiative. All the things, right? The same thing is happening. This happens with every generation. Every generation thinks there's a first. No, Socrates said it in BC, you know, 498. You know, bye-bye, Birdie. There's a whole song about it. Um, everyone thinks they're special. We're not. We're just, you know, new generation, and we have different definitions. So the first thing you can do across generations is to have a common language around the definitions that matter to you in your business.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah. I think that's a great, great thing to think about, right? Because we do make assumptions end of day, right? It's kind of like bi-weekly. We always talk about bi-weekly in the English language. It doesn't matter what generation you are. Is that every single week? Is that twice a week? What is it? That's where the English language fails us for sure. Yes. For sure, for sure. All right. Any other uh tricks that you think about working across generations? I do want to, before you add though, I do want to say you're 100% right. Everybody thinks this next generation is different. No, we're we're all different and we're all the same at the same time. And it's really just understanding people and giving faith to those people, believing in those in you know, in everyone.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Um just so um it infuriates me. I have a son who's 28, so he's what on the on the cusp of Z and millennia. Yes, he is. And um Mom, I'm not a Z. I'm like, technically you are, yeah, but he just has so much disdain for Z. Um I'm like, that's because he's a musician and he's a trained class, it's a long story, but you know, uh elite musicians and elite athletes, those people I look for those people all the time because they had to work with other people, group group team players. They had to work with other people, they weren't always the best person in the room, and they they want to be coached. They're great for feedback. You give a musician feedback all day long, and athletes all day, real athletes, all day long, right? And the rest of us um don't necessarily grow up with the that expectation for feedback. So I think that's number one. Number two on the generation thing is we all have a different um what is true is that each generation is a little bit different, and the definitions change culturally.

Tools, Dialects, And Hidden Assumptions

SPEAKER_00 24:58

So, and then really nothing's changed more in the last 25 years than how we communicate. I started my company, PR firm, before Twitter. Um, we have changed a few ways, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:13

I mean, when I started you don't think about how long Twitter's actually been around until you say that, right? I know.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

I started my career. I started my career when faxes were just you know, we had six faxes at my agency, and it was like, woohoo! Six agents, six fax machines. I'm like, of course. And I say that to my staff, they're like, what? What's a fax machine? So, you know, it's like a tablet that you used to chisel into, you know. So if you think about all the different uh and well, when I said by email, I you know, the delivery message never used to be, you know, people my age, when we started careers, of course you would just drop the memo on the page, or you'd put it in the mail, or you maybe you'd FedEx it, or maybe you'd fax it and maybe. Now it's like, am I texting that? Am I putting it in Slack? Is it going in Monday? Are you emailing that? Is it a Google Doc? Are you sending me the Google Alert? Um, am I, you know, putting it in WhatsApp? I mean, you have to you now have to say, how are you going to get it from point A to point B when it was never a question before? So we just have to recognize that each of us have had innovation. Each generation has its own innovation, uh, and we're always behind. We're always behind. So we need to understand how everybody in the company, you know, and if you have people from other parts of the country or other public parts of the world, you don't, it's not just generational, it's like how you grew up. We have more people uh today who are first generation um college students or college graduates, and also first generation white-collar workers. Well, first, you know, if you've been around white-collar workers in your family your whole life, you have a whole different set of expectations about what to expect in the workplace. And if you've never if you were not around that expectation, what do you mean I can have a mentor? What do you mean they'll give me extra stuff? What what do you wait, what? What do you mean I can ask for a meeting? What? You know, I can ask for help. Are you kidding me? I would never my my father told me never to ask for help because it was their different, it's not just generations, it's also upbringing. Um, and then two, I mean, language is another thing, right? So in my company, we're a small firm, but we have four people who speak Spanish, you know, fluent Spanish, four different kinds of Spanish. No, I didn't know there were four different kinds of Spanish, but people who are from the West Coast Mexican side, people who are of Spanish descent, Latinas and Mexican, uh, Latinas and Hispanics are not the same thing. And you have to even know the dialect. Well, that's the same thing as a um a northerner hearing bless your heart and thinking it's a a compliment. Not a compliment. Seriously, I'm like, oh, she likes me so much. She said, Bless my heart. I'm like, oh my God, isn't that great? And then my friend was literally, I thought that's Stacey. And she goes, Lee, that means she hates you. I'm like, what? But even our our country is so large that we have to think about where do that people, where do they come from? What is important? What's the dialect? What's the thing? So when you break it down even to that, you know, like I grew up, my mother put me in cotillion classes. I learned how to cut butter. I mean, seriously, who does that anymore? Oh my god. But then I've caught- I'm so judgy, right? I get to a restaurant, people are like putting their butter right on their bread. I'm like, who's that heathen? You know, oh my god. Like it matters.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

So we think about the cross generations, we think about just any kind of communication, and we think about leaders and how they show up. I'm really curious with what you have seen and heard yourself, with who you work with in your company, who you work with with your clients. You know, what is one difficult truth that you believe leaders need to hear right now?

The Hard Truth Listen More

SPEAKER_00 29:00

You need to listen more than you talk. Leaders in general are good at grafting into a situation. In general, they didn't get to where they were without reading a room pretty well or whatever they were. And higher up you go, the more you have to actually force yourself to listen to new voices. Because uh you're always higher up you are, you're gonna have some yes people around you. Don't pay attention to them. Pay attention to the people who are nodding and not talking. Pay attention to the people who don't talk. Go listen to them. Go sit in their chair, go sit in their area, say, Hey, show me what you're doing. I mean, not only would you incur a heart attack by somebody, of course, but just I really don't understand this role. Show me how it works, kind of thing. It's sort of like when you've seen that that show um undercovers CEO or undercover boss, and they're just shocked. I didn't know that the person picking up trash had to pee in the bottle. Like, what? How did you you know, but they don't, they're so far removed, no one has told them they designed something from the ground up and it has evolved over time. They have no idea. You gotta get you gotta get down. You gotta get down. And I hate that word down, but um, if listen to the people who are not talking.

Fun Questions And Closing

SPEAKER_01 30:16

All right, there's that sound. It's time for our fun questions. Are you ready for the fun questions? I'm a little scared because they're easy, they're easy. Okay, so if for the rest of your life you could only dance all of your communication, like, or you had to sing it, which one would you do?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I would sing. That was my minor in college.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Oh, there we go. Yeah, I would sing. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

I might even put a show tune in there with some jazz hands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Bring some fun and excitement to it.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Jazz hands also communicate, so I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

They do. They do. Very true. Okay, if you could only wear one color on your clothing for the rest of your life, what would that color be?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

I'm gonna say pink because I have it on today. And most people choose black because it's more versatile, but pink sticks out and I don't want to be ignored.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Well, Lee, thank you for the conversation today. I think our listeners are walking me with some great tools so they can communicate better, they can listen better, um, and be able to provide a safe environment and have a true great team moving forward. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

So enjoy talking with you, Stacey. Thank you so much for having me on.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

If you enjoyed the show, please go to LeadershipMoments Podcast.com to subscribe to the podcast or on your favorite player, as well as follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

You can also send us a message on what you like and don't like or what guest you want us to have on the show.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

So until next time.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

This is Stacy Castor, and what doesn't challenge you won't change you.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

And I'm Tracy Ann Palmer. Be the change you wish to see in the world.