Part-Time School | Parents discuss Flexi-Schooling plans

Why we're hoping to part-time homeschool! This is the one where Emma and Elliot chat about what Flexi-Schooling in the UK is, why it appeals to us, and how, as toddler parents, we're aiming to make it work in the future. A light-hearted conversation touching on what other countries do, 'part-time before CSA' (Compulsory School Age), deferred starting, our school experience, and generally having a moan about the UK education system! (including fines for absences, the curriculum, defending teachers, school uniforms...) So much in this episode! 

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Unwind on sleepless nights to a wholesome mix of parenting stories, quirky humour, and cosy crafting. We’re not here to provide answers but to share our experiences, explore how parenting has changed, and build an online community of parents for mutual support.

A fun, honest and unscripted conversation between Emma and Elliot on non-judgemental parenting and millennial-based topics, as we relax on an evening attempting an artistic or creative activity. 

We are a project in partnership with The Kairos Movement and supported by The Methodist Church, of which The Kairos Movement is a part.

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  So, Emma, wifey dear, what are we discussing today? Today we are discussing flexi schooling! 

This episode is called part time schooling. 

Welcome to the cosy cushion cave here in the Crippin household. Join us and unwind to a wholesome mix of parenting stories, relaxed conversation and our quirky humour. We're the unprofessional, disorganised, no expertise show for mums and dads with Babies, toddlers, or preschool children. Who are we? Why, thank you for asking.

I'm Elliot. I'm the grumpy man who plods about the house in my dressing gown and slippers. Very accurate description. Who are you? I'm Emma. I'm the fun one who, uh, runs around doing all the activities. Yeah, you do run around the house a lot. You often are dressed in like a cape. I like a bit of comfort, so I often walk around with a blanket around me.

Yeah, if I'm a grumpy old man then you're like some sort of scurrying kind of creature that's kind of constantly, yeah.  Anyway, um, there you go. Uh, we, we have a daughter born in lockdown. She's now three and we have another one on the way. Uh, we live in North Yorkshire, currently in Harrogate. Um, but yeah, that's, that's enough.

Enough words from my face. Let's get on with some, some stories in your ears. Ba 

ding a ding ding! Ring, uh, ba ding! We all hear that noise, and it means one thing. It's Parenting Achievement Time! So this is always a bit where we like to do a funny parenting story. It's not normally an actual achievement. If you've got a toddler who has dropped all their naps, it's always the the kind of parenting fail and annoyance when they do have a little nap in the day.

And so it happened yesterday actually. Yep. I took her out for a walk and then on the way back she, uh, like fell asleep and had like, I don't know, like 15, 20 minute nap. Yeah. But that's all it took. And then last night, oh dear, goodness me, she was up. I was putting her to bed and she was up till, I don't know, like half nine, probably getting towards ten.

Yeah. Yeah. And she just kept being like, I'm not tired. I don't want to go to bed. I want to play. I was like, you had 20 minute nap! 20 minutes! And if people know Lily, she actually quite likes her bed. She normally goes down at like 7 fairly Yeah. Okay. Goodness me. 20 minutes adds 2 hours at least. At least.

Into her bedtime. Yeah. And at the time I was like, Well, we've had a busy day. Yeah, maybe she'll need it. I'm sure we can cope with just a little bit. We always justify it to ourselves. And I was exhausted. The worst one is like when you're coming back from somewhere in the car. And it's like, I can't.

Because you're like, well, what, I can't wake them up. You can't get them, like, you just can't do anything. Especially on a hot day. Uh, those terrible danger naps. Yep.  What can you do? Um, so let us know if you have a similar thing happening. If you've reached this level of, uh, parenting with your toddler and, uh, what, and you know, what's the shortest nap you've had that's resulted in the longest  staying up at night. 

Like it is ridiculous. It shouldn't. Well, how does it, it doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. How could you sleep for 10 minutes and then that means you've got like two hours extra energy at night? Just what? It's incredible really.  The amount of sleep she needs per energy must be minute.  So get in touch.

We'd love to hear your stories if this is relatable, if you have a similar thing, or if it's completely opposite. If you think we're stupid and this doesn't make sense. If you're my sister in France, Becky, she cannot relate. No. Because her children are super sleepers. They sleep like three hour naps and they still sleep all night.

I should be kind, but she told me This morning, her new baby, which is about two months? Yeah. Slept seven hours through the night last night. And there's someone, I want to be supportive, this is just the bitterness in me. Just, just don't tell me, I don't want this, just don't tell me, I don't, I don't like the sound of this.

Just rubbing it in.  Hate it. Hate it.  You can be gone, Becky. I don't, I don't want this sort of conversation.  We know she likes listening to the podcast. This is for you, Becky. We don't want to know how good your life is.  very much. Right, well, stay tuned to the end of this episode to hear some other parenting stories, parenting achievements and fails from listeners, things that people have sent in. 

Lock that bathroom door so that your kids can't get to you for a little bit. And, uh, Let's, uh, escape and unwind with some conversation today all about flexi schooling. We've not reached school age yet, but we do have, we've encountered this and quite like it and we thought we'd talk about what our plans and hopes are.

Yeah.  In an ideal world, this is what we would like to do.  Yeah, and because it's maybe not as well known, and chatting with some of our listeners and friends, um, they were quite interested in what our thoughts were and what we plan to do, and so we thought others might be interested to hear. Yeah. I have done some research, but typical pregnancy brain Emmet then somehow has deleted the notes she made about flexing squirreling on her phone.

Emma was telling me she's made all these notes for this episode. Yesterday I was so proud of myself. I was like, I've made all these notes in my phone, it's all ready. Yeah. Look today. Can't find it. There's no note there. I even looked on the backup, deleted. I bet, I bet you when we finish recording, you're gonna find them again.

And then I keep thinking, do I have another note app somewhere on my phone that I just It's alright, I know a lot as well, so we can, between us we can fill it in. But anyway, there was a very good article on Nursery World, Right. That I, uh, was using a lot of information from. Photoschooling has actually been around since the 1980s. 

Right. Which surprised me. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was a bit more modern than that. Um, and it's an arrangement where a child, um, of compulsory school age, so in the UK, that is age five, is registered at school full time, but the headteacher can agree that they can be home educated for part of the week. Yeah.

Um, and to be honest, not even home educated, because some people we know actually send their children to like, school. a forest school. Yeah, we can get into that but effectively it is, um, doing school education for part of the the week and home education for home education is maybe not the right word but parent, I don't know what the right word is, but even if you homeschool you could send your kid to A different type of education setting that's Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. It just means the parents are in charge of doing that bit, looking after the education for that part. No, there's no standard practice with flexi schooling in the sense that it's all case by case basis arranged. Yeah. With the school and the head teacher. So there's not like, we can't give you a.

We could give examples, but we can't give like, the typical setting, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because everyone does it differently. Yeah, and each school probably will have preferential arrangements or so. That's a bit like homeschooling, isn't it? Everyone does that differently, and I think sometimes people have a, what's the word, misconception or an idea in their head of what homeschooling looks like, and I suspect if you talk to people who do do homeschooling,  that it probably does have quite a diverse, um, Yeah, range of what people do.

Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Um, I, I mean, I don't think we actually know anyone who does homeschooling, do we? No, I don't know anyone who just, I know people who  do part time or flexi schooling, but I don't know anyone who does full time homeschooling. Interesting. Flexi schooling kicks in from five. Yeah.  But we might also want to talk about the other part of it, which isn't technically flexi schooling, which is before five, because obviously in the UK, You go to school the, from the September, the year you turn five, so when a lot of kids are four.

Um, and at that point, you can also do this, it's just not called flexi schooling, because it's before compulsory school age. And it often can be called part time. Yeah. Um, which is a formal agreement you make, or, as some people do, because you're not compulsory. It's not compulsory. You can just decide to take your kid out, whatever it is you want.

So, I think the confusing bit is part time  is a temporary arrangement. I was going to say that's temp, it's like a temporary thing because there's some contextual thing that means you've arranged for your kid to be part time for so long. For so long, yeah. But that can't be a long term agreement, whereas flexi schooling can,  I mean, as far as we're aware, I mean, I don't know if there's examples of people managing it, but you could do it Through your entire education.

You could, yeah. Um, all the way up to 18, you could flexi school. Yeah. Yeah, so before 5, you can take your kid out of school, but you don't need to have an agreement. They can't, you don't need a reason. They can't fine you. You can't fine you. I mean, this is the big thing, isn't it? Um, maybe, yeah, maybe we should transition a little bit into the whys and why it appeals to us and why we're considering it.

Yeah.  Because, you know, fining, um, is a big one. It is, yeah. Um, and that's, it's not just the finds themselves but the ethos that kind of underpins that, that idea.  The attendance is so critical. Yes, the just so much so much of our school Education system in the UK frustrates me. Yeah, I'd say  Lots of my sisters and my nephew are teachers.

Yeah  Teachers it's just the school system itself. Mm hmm in the I feel like  A, it's catered to kind of learning something temporarily to pass a test.  Memorising things. Memorising things. Yeah. And I used to always get annoyed that, well I still get annoyed at the idea that taking your child off for a week to go on holiday is so detrimental they will never possibly catch up.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just crazy. Yeah. Where I'm like, well,  you know, I know COVID was bad, but kids were at home for weeks. Yeah, and I think a lot of, a lot of parents actually, that's a prime example of why the system now seems broken. It always seems a bit extreme that they're like, well, you can't possibly take them on holiday for a week.

Yeah. Because that would ruin everything. Yeah. Um, which is a separate issue. Yeah. But I, it just always annoys me. Um,  I mean, the amount of cultural kind of stuff you learn going on holiday and, you know, the experiences, I think we just have a very different idea of what learning is. I think also though, it,  it, um, it's kind of,  Discriminatory against people who have lower incomes.

Yeah. Because if you can only go on holiday during the school holidays, the prices skyrocket. Yeah. It is far cheaper to go in term time. Yeah. And if you can't afford those high prices, does that mean your child just can't have a holiday? Mm, and can't have that experience. Yeah, so. And I know like, often a criticism aimed at this argument is that, you know, is lying on a beach, you know, are you actually really learning anything or, you know.

Yeah. Possibly if you're doing cultural things like city breaks and stuff, but I think whatever holiday you're having, whatever, whatever it is, even if it's mass tourism, lying on a beach somewhere, it's still learning in a different way, you're in a different country, different context. Learning how to unwind, how to relax, how to take a break that's healthy for people. 

Yeah. We could go on about this all day. So we disagree with the whole compulsory, you have to be there all the time, there's no reason you could possibly be off. The fines. Peace. And I think a lot of teachers disagree with that as well. And a lot of schools and a lot of heads, but it's just the state of It's just the way it works.

I'd say another reason is that I often feel like,  this, is it once again? Nothing against teaching.  You can give your child more opportunities for education.  On that, like, so our plan would be to have one day off a week from school. On that one day, I could take her to a museum, or an art gallery, or something that I'm like, the school can't possibly take all those children to one of these places of interest, doesn't, you can't do that, that's just not possible.

Yeah. Whereas when you're one on one, you can go, Let's go and you get my undivided attention to kind of learn about whatever thing we're learning about that day. Yeah So, I mean we've flipped here from um the kind of Being negative and critical of the education system to looking at well What are the positives actually of being out of school?

Yeah and doing other stuff and I think a lot of this ties into Um, a previous episode we did on Montessori and creative play styles, um, and we were talking there about younger children with kind of nursery and things, but it applies very much to this age as well about, you know, learning through play and learning through being creative and we're all about that really.

And I think, you know, the ethos of, um, whatever she was called, Mrs. Montessori or whatever.  Maria Montessori, I think. Yeah, she was all about saying that, like, children inherently know how to learn, you just give them And they're curious, which is true. Yeah, they're curious, so you give them the opportunity to explore the world in all sorts of ways and they will learn stuff.

And if schools did that style of education, we would have no problem, I don't think, with Lily going full time to school.  the child the freedom to maybe one day a week follow whatever they're passionate about. Whereas school, a lot of the time, you may like, you know, I'm not going to say, oh, you like all these, you don't like any of them.

You like some more than others. But one day a week, if you can go, oh, I really like, I don't know, whatever artist or whatever thing I'm interested in. And that one day you can focus on that actual passion. I think that's really nice for children rather than going, we've got to sit in something you don't enjoy again.

Um. And as you've said, you know, like. I think it's a given really that if you have one to one tuition, you know, a lot of kids, uh, if, I mean, maybe you may have less experience of this, but in my wealthy southern, southern upbringing, um, You know, I know a lot of kids that had, you know, private tuition one to one with other people to, like, boost their grades and help them learn and, like, that's kind of, you know, even with teachers at school, a lot of teachers give private, outside school, one to one tuitions as, like, an income booster or whatever.

I know, we know loads of teachers that do that. One sec, lots of teachers in my family, they do also do that to just add semester income. Because we understand that one to one is one of the most effective ways of learning because you can do that really intensely, you know, and  cater stuff to that exact child.

Yeah, yeah. Um. And so why wouldn't a parent, you know, a parent being able to offer that outside school, of course that's going to be more beneficial than sitting in a class of 30. We're part of the Facebook group, Flexi Schooling Families UK.  Highly recommend it.  If you're interested or curious or want to know how to do it.

So a lot of parents have said like it's sometimes because their children, school's just a very stressful environment and having one day off a week or two just enables them to kind of process a lot of those emotions to do with stress and just have a better overall experience of school so they're not kind of dreading.

Yeah. Going. It's more of an, you know. And I think it is true, a lot of people in the group, um, it's really popular with SEND kids. It is. And people with extra needs. Yeah, so if people don't know what SEND is, it's, um, special educational needs, I think. Yeah, yeah. Um, so anything like that where, if your kids, you know, even if they don't have anything diagnosed, but find school stressful or overwhelming or get burnt out very quickly.

Um, maybe if you, you know, do have diagnosed things like anxiety or other, other medical conditions, school can be a real challenge. It can be really difficult. Um, and I think Flexi's schooling gives The best of both worlds, you know, the problem with homeschooling for us and I imagine with a lot of other parents is not only  How would you do financially?

Yeah, how would you do it financially? Because often we need we need to work Yeah, and you know, you can't just bet, you know be a full time educator  Even if you wanted to sometimes it's just not possible. And so flexi schooling does allow for Yeah, for some of that freedom anyway.  And I mean the other, the other thing of course is that it doesn't have to be that day that you have them out of school, or two days or three days, you could do other things with them.

So you don't have to be the primary educator yourself. If as a parent you don't feel, you know, You could do that, but like we've talked about and know people who then use that day to go to a forest school or go into other educational settings that offer more creative forms of exploring and learning and whatever.

Yeah, how this compares to what other countries do abroad. Yeah, true  Because I think often we're quite in a isolated bubble in the UK. Yeah, we never really think you know We think what we do is best and we think that's the norm. Yeah I think immediately I think of your sister Becky in France, um, and her kids and the school system there where they just have Wednesdays off.

Yeah. Every week. Every week you get a Wednesday off. Um, and I think this is quite widely known. You don't have to do something educational on Wednesday. Yeah. Normally they promote sports clubs that, um, it's very low cost to have your child go to a sports club. Or just, you know, Be at home and enjoy family time.

Yeah, yeah. Which I think is a very healthy way to look at it. I would say though It does make me think of the, you know, the shift, um, that is kind of happening in the workplace to like a four day work week. Yeah, yeah, true. Because we recognise that actually burnout is a real thing and And you can be as productive often within them hours.

Yeah, yeah. And like, we've often talked about a lot of the research shows that kids only take in like two hours worth of stuff A day. In a day.  And so the rest of the day, they're not gonna remember. I mean, I don't remember half the stuff we were taught at school. Like, what? I just Yeah, it's true. You do remember the things, the lessons you found really interesting.

Like, oh, I remember when they did that weird science experiment. Like, field trips, and leaving the school, and actually doing stuff outside. Or like, even like, science stuff. Like, I remember burning magnesium.  I don't know. you know, between us, you, you're quite academic and so thrived quite a lot in the school system.

And I didn't do too badly. I'm fairly academic, but as a boy, you know, I think I struggled more. I'm dyslexic. And so I, I struggled with that as well.  I'm a very visual, practical person. I think like quite a lot of boys. And so a lot of my memories of things are, you know, reading textbooks did nothing for me.

I really struggled with that. Whereas going out and seeing stuff practically in the world,  really good. And I would say it didn't not suit me. The normal education system, like I did well, I quite enjoyed it because I'm quite academic. Yeah. Um, but I did, even then, because I live in the north, I would get so annoyed when it was a beautiful sunny day.

And it would always be after the summer holidays where we'd have had atrocious weather the whole time. Mm. And then we'd get back to school. And it would be so sunny and beautiful, and you'd be sat in a classroom. And this was a child who enjoyed school and lacked education. And I'd feel so hard done by looking outside, that I used to feel like saying, can we not just read our books outside so I can get some sunlight? 

The other major difference with, um, schools abroad, of course, is the starting age, where in quite a lot of countries, particularly in Europe, they don't start school till they're like seven. Yeah, um, and when I was reading an article, they said it's, That's one of the most commonly, like, stated reasons a lot of parents like flexi schooling.

Mm. Because they feel like the children are quite young to be sat in seats all day and kind of Yeah. And I know primary school, you, you might not be sat in a seat all day. Reception. I mean, I don't really know what they do these days, but I'm assuming they're not Like but then I know they still kind of have ridiculous expectations sometimes.

Yeah 

So we dig into kind of what our plans are then for Lily we've kind of gone around Yes, the reasoning and what it is and but actually thinking about  the scenario that we're in and what we would like to do and what that might look like.  So Lily is, uh, three. Yep. So  in a normal scenario she would be starting school next September.

Yes.  For us, so we've got like a year. To work out what we're doing. I don't know when you're listening to this, could be any time, but this is September when we're recording, so we have a year to work out what we're doing. But of course she doesn't turn five.  until the following, you know, early summer. Yeah.

So  we have quite a lot of time before she, you know, hits compulsory school age. Yes, yeah.  So actually before we even consider flexi schooling, we need to think about what we're doing at the start of school. Yes, yeah. Um, and there's a few options really here. Um, one thing we haven't talked about yet, which is an option, is the deferring a year.

Yeah. If you have a summer born baby, you can. opt to defer so they don't start until the following year. I don't know much about that. Do you know much about that?  I'm iffy about it because I feel like then she's almost a year behind. She will be in a In a lower year group. I mean, I can understand, say they're born 31st of August.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then literally they will be a day  older than some of the people in their class. So like, you know, it's an arbitrary line in the sand, you know, 1st of September. So  To some extent, you know, we're not talking about that. But  yeah, I,  I don't know, I, I'm not sure about,  because effectively you're holding her back a year.

Yes, yeah. Um. But then I do like the freedom of having an extra year. Yeah. It's just, you know, for making friends and stuff. I, I don't know if deferring is the way I go. Yeah, I'm, we're not sure about that option really. Uh, I know it works for some people. But I think what people may not realise also is that.

Um, funding for education, like, um, pre school,  um, education settings is still available until they turn five. It is, yes. Yeah. So,  the other option we have is to basically have a still in nursery. Yep.  And we do, we have a friend who does,  does that, who's basically, you'd still need to enrol them at a school.

Yes. Um, but until they turn five. Basically, you make an arrangement with the school that they're going to be in the nursery till whatever. Well, it's not even an arrangement. This is what's a bit strange about the Well, yes. Yeah. You know, basically, there is no compulsory thing for you to be at school until you are five.

But you would need to be registered at a school so that once they turn five And you would tell Um, but then you can basically say, well, she's not, she's not going to be there. Yes. Yeah. You have a place, but we're not taking up. Um, instead we're going to send her somewhere else.  Or you could, of course, homeschool or do whatever.

So I'm, I'm wondering about whether we. basically keep our same pattern of nursery. Yeah, I wouldn't be against doing that because she really likes nursery. Lily currently does three days at nursery. Yeah. And we could just keep going with that. Yeah. Until she turns five. It's true. And do the other two days at home like we do at the moment.

Or, the other option,  there's so many different ways you could do it isn't there, is instead of nursery she does school. So we start school, basically say we're going to take her out of school for two days a week. Yeah,  um, which is my preferred option, because I almost feel like if you got in there early enough and you explained You could almost prove that it works as a system, so by the time you have to agree FlexiSchooling, you could say look, we've done this for a year  and it hasn't impacted her, she's not fallen behind. 

This shows that this works. Yeah, and this is a frustration for me But I kind of understand it that  so much of what we see in the Facebook group  is is mums and dads who You need to play the system a little bit to convince the headteacher  that this is a good idea Yeah, because they won't it's not that well known.

They won't immediately and a lot of them don't so Um, a lot of the head teachers don't know that it's their decision. Yeah, they often go. Oh, well, I need to ask Um the governors or all they'll say the council we don't do that here We don't have a policy and it's like that's not a thing No, you won't do that here, but you can agree it case by case you can agree to this You need to be like it's up to you.

You don't need to consult anybody else. Nope Yeah, because it's the head teacher's decision, but you do need to convince the head teacher. Yes, that it's a good idea Exactly. And so by yeah Possibly by being in school and having them out two days a week, you can combat some of their fears early on. And it's ridiculous what we've seen headteachers come out with.

Yeah, so what we've seen on the group, there's some teachers have said they're far behind, some said, well, they'll be too far ahead. Yeah. And you're like, well how can both reasons possibly be reasons? Or like that the kids will get confused by being out of school so many days, that they won't have the social things with friends.

Both of which make no sense because for the past like three years, Lily's been in nursery where she goes on different days, she doesn't go every week, there's different kids in like she goes three days in a row. Yeah. Like she has gaps. It has not confused her. She's used to the turnover. She's still made friends with people who she only sees one day a week. 

Of course that's not going to affect her. What a ridiculous thing. Yeah. It's just, you know. Yeah, I think some, it's just difficult because I think a lot of headteachers, obviously because it's not well known,  they almost, I think, would prefer to say no than, Because they don't know enough about it and don't feel like almost they have the expertise to say yes.

It's a risk, isn't it? Yeah. It's, then, they are worried about the attendance record. They're worried about their attainment and, you know, the output. But arguably, so this is another misconception for headteachers, it doesn't affect your attendance because there's a separate thing you put in Well, it doesn't, it doesn't.

Well, technically you could put, it's an agreed absence. Or agreed thing. It is an agreed absence. So,  It will affect their attendance record, but when Ofsted look at it, they will say, This is an agreed absence for flexi schooling, and Ofsted will be happy with that. Yeah, it's not gonna say, Oh, you've got a child who's not turning up.

Yeah, but on the face of it, the code they have to use does make it look like you are absent. That is true. It's a shame. It would be really good if the government could introduce a new school code that's a flexi schooling code that would mean, the schools were happier because it doesn't look like they're absent.

Because the kid is still being educated. They are not out of education, they're just not in school. But it's also kind of ridiculous that you wouldn't give a child that possibility because you don't want your record of attendance to look bad. Yeah, yeah. That's not putting the children first, is it? This is what I mean by playing the system.

Yeah. Because, you know, As much as they say they're putting the kid first, they're not. I'm sorry, I'm sorry any teachers listening, but you're, you're trying to fit within the rules and the guidelines you have to work within. Yeah, yeah. You know, but that's not putting the kid first. No, that's true. Yeah, and saying that full time education in a school Will be better.

Will be the best thing for every child. That is clearly nonsense. And I also think that the child will get to an age, so Lily will get to an age where if she wants to go full time school, yeah, she could say to us I actually really enjoy school. I'm not opposed to go with my friends every day and then we'd go, fine, you know, that's the student you've come to, that's great, you've made that decision.

Like, we're not people who would go, oh, well, we're going to force our child to keep going with it if they suddenly decide they prefer to be at school. Yeah, sure. Um, cause school might really suit her. Yeah, it might, yeah. But then part of me,  even if that's the case, I, as, as a parent, I'm really keen to raise a well rounded child.

Yeah, true. And so even if school really does fit with her, I'd be keen to offer other forms of education in order to expand her worldview. Yeah, yeah. You know, as you've said, it's not just about does it work for the kid, but it's about saying these are experiences that you can't have in school. I feel like a lot of this episode is just moaning.

Well, I have another interesting fact for you. Okay. So, um, it's becoming, flexi schooling is becoming increasingly popular in a lot of undersubscribed schools,  so schools that weren't getting enough students, they were going to have to close, then decided to have flexi schooling policies and really advertise to the whole area, we do flexi schooling.

Okay. And suddenly those schools have been like inundated. Wow. And now they can keep on remaining to be a school. Hmm. Um, so it was interesting to now like, Even though it's counter intuitive, it's a lot more rural schools that are actually doing flexi schooling. Yeah. Because that's how they're getting people to come.

Yeah. And stay at the school. And it's easier for them because there's probably less staff and stuff involved. Yeah. And I think it's maybe key to say you can, you can start and stop this at any point. Like, Yeah. If your kid is already in school, You could approach the headteacher and, and get an arrangement in place.

It doesn't have to be, Oh yeah, as soon as you start. Yeah. At the beginning. It doesn't have to be at the start of term. Um, you know, you, it's, it's at the headteacher's discretion. So it literally can happen any time. Um, You know, it's a thing that you can do, and we should, I think we should say that Facebook group that we've already mentioned is a great resource, they've got some template letters and things.

Oh yeah. Um, and lots of text that you can copy and paste that, uh, that people have done and had success with. Basically government policies that you can send to the school to show that that is an agreement with what the government allow Um, because like I said, it's just really a lot of people just don't know about it  We're even schools so you have to kind of prove to them that this is a legal thing The government have approved it, you know, try and back up your argument about  Why it's a thing that can exist.

I mean that yeah, that's also another shame Isn't it that it feels like a lot of the pressure falls on us as parents? Yeah to make this happen It's not a given you have to really fight your corner. Yeah, and they could say no and then you're in a Difficult position where it's, you know, do you move schools to see if another school will accept it?

Do you try and do home full time homeschooling? Do you just say, okay, well, we'll just go to school full time. Um,  so that's why we keep saying we'd hopefully do it. Yeah, you know, this is why we're talking about our plans because Who knows what the reality will look like? There's so many factors that could change, that could influence it.

Well, or the government could suddenly change policy, and say flexi schooling isn't allowed. Because it's over a year and a half away till we need to, uh, Arrange flexi schooling and in that time, yeah government policy could easily change easily change and then you're kind of you know  Stuck. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's growing in popularity though very quickly, which may be a millennial generation thing Um, or even people younger than us because they're having children.

What generation are they gen z gen z Um, I think it's just becoming a lot more popular Yeah,  I think you know, um, it's very similar to so many You Institutions and, you know, all sorts of  things, you know, we often have difficult conversations and criticisms of the NHS and other big things. It's the same thing with us for the church as well, a big institution, but so many of them are kind of like stuck in the past and they need massive overhauls.

And I'd say with all of them, it's often sad because they have really good people working in them who are just stuck in the system rather than being able to do kind of what they'd be passionate about.  Because I know loads of good teachers. Yeah, definitely. That are fantastic teachers. But they are stuck with the curriculum and what they have to do.

Yeah, I mean that's something we haven't really mentioned as well, the curriculum. Which is another one where it's like, well,  they have to follow the curriculum. Yeah. And what if we as parents don't? Don't agree, not agree, but you know, want a broader culture. Yeah, it just often limits you. So, I know when me and Elliot, um, discuss what we learnt in history, we learnt vastly different types of history.

And I was quite good, I got quite a well rounding, I would say, of history. Whereas you were like, just doing about Russian Czars for ages.  Well, that was at like, A level, um, but  I think, once again, I remember so little of it. Yeah, that's true. You know, we did Nazi Germany over and over and over again. But I remember so little else because, again, it was just all learning stuff by rote, writing essays, and that, that didn't work for me.

You know, secondary school as well, like, it was an outstanding academy and so, therefore, they thought a lot of themselves and were like, well, we don't need to do, like, you know, they put so little emphasis on arts and drama. Yeah. And because they were, like, We're, we're an academic academy, you know, we're doing so well.

We get outstanding Ofsteds, you know, they were all about the academic subjects. I'd say my secondary school was very like that because they were also an academy. Um, I mean, they were like, once again, the teachers were very good, but I was very suited to school, so I really already really enjoyed history and stuff.

So I just enjoyed that anyway.  But I do think, had you not already been interested in some of these subjects, you. You wouldn't have grown an interest necessarily. And of course a lot of this conversation is influenced by our experience of school. Yeah. Um, because, you know, that's our touchstone of what it looks like and whether we would want Lily to have the same experience.

Of course things have probably changed since we were at school. Yeah. But going by  people we talk to, about the cultural context. It seems like things have changed in the wrong direction.  Things feel like they've got worse, not better. I would say it's hard though because some people's schools do seem excellent.

Okay. But  I would say as a general rule, they do seem to be fine. Few and far between. And, you know, we've talked a lot about, in all seriousness, is there something like a paid Montessori school? We have, we have really discussed this. About always sending her to a private school that would do that. Or, you know, a full time creative school we could send her to instead of, you know, mainstream schooling.

Um, because But like we said, if they were able to offer a different style of education, we would be all for it. Um, I think one last thing we should just touch on that we've not gone into an awful lot is some of the social elements. Um, we've talked a lot about academia and learning, but I think, you know, one of the worries and criticisms that we've had, Homeschooling, and as a result flexi schooling, gets faced with is this idea that you won't have the social interactions and that you won't have as many friends and, you know, for us, actually, I would say one of our main reasons for sending her to school would be the social element. 

But I think, again, that's generally a misconception that, you know, just because you're at home, does that, that doesn't mean you don't see anyone. Also, I know, for instance, we're in Harrogate, Geek Retreat have a homeschooling thing once a week where different homeschooling children meet. Like, I think as long as you're going to other places and they are meeting other children, they're socialising, it is our main reason, as in, A, financial, because we couldn't homeschool, but B, for doing flexi schooling, I would like that she would socialise with a lot of children during the week.

Um, like for me that's important and I'd like that she would get that at school. But it does imply for us that school isn't,  our reason for sending her to school and not homeschooling isn't academic. It's purely sociable. Um, and financial, I would say. Yeah, even if Lily ends up going full time to school, in my head, I still imagine that we will feel responsible for 100 percent of her education, and that we are basically sending her to school for childcare, and for socialising and making friends and living Because I'm sure she would learn some stuff for school, but  I'm not relying on I'm not sending her to school thinking, You teachers, you are now responsible for her learning.

As a parent, I'm responsible for her learning.  I think it's hard, because we're not like, knowledgeable on every subject ever. But we know your child well. So you can say, well I know the way she likes to learn things. And I know this, her strengths, these are her weaknesses. Like,  a teacher can learn that. But they're not going to have that intuitive, knowledge about a child.

I would say some teachers are very good, but you obviously can't cater everything to every child. Yeah. And of course, like, even outside of education, like, there's a lot of stuff with schools that I think we're going to struggle with and get into difficulties with, like, we don't really agree with uniforms.

No, and I had a huge  discussion. The other day, um, which I hope you include this in the podcast. Yeah. Um,  here's a discussion about pee kits. Yeah. Um, and I don't know if this is the same.  I have a big problem with the idea that I remember when I used to go to school, girls were made to wear shorts for pee.

And I hated wearing shorts because.  My body was changing. I wasn't comfortable. You had to get changed in front of other people, and it's just a big thing for me that there was, um, a parent who'd put on their child had to wear shorts, the daughter did not wear shorts, and then they got, uh, detention or something because they'd come in the wrong thing, and I wanted to be like, Are we still in a world where if you don't feel comfortable wearing a certain thing you're forced to wear that because it's the uniform?

That really annoyed me. Yeah  Stuff like that  If the school system hasn't changed we are going to have problems. Yeah, um because I will say well she's not  Gonna do that then Yeah. I do feel sorry for whichever school does get us  . Um,  they might be glad that she flexes school. Like, oh, we don't have to deal with those difficult parents.

At least  I'm ly very easy going,  . But it's stuff like that that really annoys me. We are, we are both very easy going, but I think we. There are some values and things that we hold quite strongly, I don't know, that I think  we, we want to give Lily the best, you know, start in life that she can have and we want to alleviate some of the challenges and problems that we faced growing up that feel like it should have moved on.

So many European countries, like, they don't have uniforms. It does not affect learning. And it does not. Level the playing field between rich and poor. Yeah, no. No way. Well, it's still a proven statistic that your parents, um, their incomes, their education determines your grades effectively more than what school you go to, which therefore still implies that. 

The parents, I'm not saying they're the people doing the majority of the work, but they're the people They're most influential. Who've almost given you the foundation for learning. Yeah. So therefore, schools aren't an even playing field. No. If you don't have somewhere to come home, and you don't have parents who already may be knowledgeable about what homework you're doing.

Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a myth. Yeah.  I have another note about pee. Oh, okay. That they were saying about how, like, some girls have really bad periods and they send in a note and some pee teachers refuse to go, well, the period's not that bad, you should still be doing pee. And I'm like, once again, disagree with that. 

I mean, I, I would go as far as to say they, they should just stay at home. Like, I don't see a problem with, you know, if you're in pain, you're not gonna learn anything at school. Go home! But I was just like, I understand for some people, periods are very mild. Not that bad. Other people, periods are very bad.

And I think for like, a member of staff to go, well it's fine. It's a period, it's a normal thing, just get on with it. Completely just takes away from the fact that a child is like, Well, no, it's not. It comes back to that idea that if you miss even an hour of school, that somehow that's detrimental, that you will lose learning that you could have learned elsewhere.

You know, and I know a big challenge with, for example, in the very early years when they start school, one of the things they come back with and say, Well, if you miss a day of school, that's really bad because, you know, we teach phonics and things. And that's really key to their learning. Well, I mean, You're a linguist and Yeah.

We didn't do phonics at home. But also, we don't really agree that phonics is a good way to learn. I think it does for some children. Okay. But I would say,  um, so I do try with Lily with phonics, but I also would say a huge thing to get children, you know, talking and reading, it's just reading books. Because the more words you come across, because that's basic, a lot of English words do not follow the pattern you would think they would.

Yeah. Yeah. Because we're a language that's just been,  we're basically a mongrel language. We've had  loads of other languages go into us. We have more words that break the rules. Yeah. And break grammatical rules than we do that follow. Phonics can be really useful. But,  I would say it's not something you should say phonics is the only thing you should be doing to help language skills.

It needs to be in conjunction with, you need to be reading books and encountering lots of different words, so the child has just a bigger breadth of knowledge of vocab. You know, one to one conversation, you know, like the fact that if she was at home, I could be chatting with her all day long, and she's learning language, I could be introducing her to new words.

If she's sat in a classroom at a desk, not talking to anyone, Yeah. Because you've got to be quiet. How is that helping her language? Yeah. Just, you know,  yeah. So yeah, we have lots of diversity as well. Lots of things. But you know, that's because The school curriculum is very rigid. Yeah. Um, yeah, you know, and once again, it's understandable because you have to teach 30 kids Something you're gonna go for what is the easiest system?

They believe or the government believes is going to teach them these things and again It's just it's just outdated because the assumption is that this is this is the best way in terms of mass education to get people ready for the workplace and get ready to be adults and it's like You But that's not true anymore.

Society's moved on. You know, we work from home. We do not wear uniforms to work. No, it's true. We work on computers. Like, the way we, the way we work and earn money And I would say most jobs, unless you're in like, say, a post office worker or, I don't know, army. Nurse. Most jobs don't have uniforms nowadays, realistically.

What you need to be exposed to and learn and, you know, understand,  I think is, you know, it's very different. Yeah. But equally, you do not need to know any of that when you are four.  Why do you need to learn how to sit at a desk when you're four? Especially for a lot of little boys, it almost gives them the thing that they're naughty.

Yeah. Yeah. And then they think they're naughty, and then they think they don't like school, and you've already lost them. They've already established they don't like school, and it's not for them at such an early age, because they're too young, they're too lively to enjoy any of that, if you're sat at a desk.

Um, yeah, so it's basically a good old complaint. I was gonna say it's been a big old rambly moan. And, yeah, I hope it's been, uh, well, have we, I hope we touched on everything we wanted to touch on. Yeah. I think we've explained what it is. Yeah. I think we've explained in depth why we're not happy with the education system.

Hopefully we've explained enough about why the positives. 

If it sounds interesting, I'd highly recommend going, checking it out and kind of learning more about it and seeing if any of it is suitable for you in your context. And if your school is really good, let us know. It'll give us more hope in new school systems. Or if you do flexi schooling, let us know. If you do homeschooling, what's your You know, is your school one that's really open to flexi schooling?

Do you go to like, you know, a forest school or a Montessori school, Waldorf school, something like that? Um, we'd love to hear from you and your experiences, I'll be found.  Well, it's been a quite an intense episode, but we come to our segment where we share some comments and stories from listeners, things people have sent in.

Oh, I have a funny story. Ooh, yeah. Is it from a family member? It's from a family member because it's in passing. But it is funny.  So, it's about starting school. So it all fits in. Okay.  You'll all be aware, my sister in France, Becky. So her youngest, well not youngest anymore, because they have Alia, but her younger sister.

Um, youngest boy, Isaac, just started school, because in France you start quite early. Well, I was gonna say we should probably clarify, in France, again, very different system, they start when they're, so they start, the year they turn four, instead of the year they turn five. So that means for some kids it's, they've just turned three. 

So Isaac is, um, three. Three and a half. Half, yeah. Um, and  he started school. Um, yesterday, he's really enjoying it, but um, it's hilarious, he came home and then he went,  oh, so it's holidays now. And she went, what do you mean is it holidays? He's like, well, I've done school.  I've done it. And she was like, it's not like a tick box where you go four days and then you get holiday.

I like that. You have to go like continuously. So he was quite disappointed. He'd enjoyed school, but he thought it was like, you go and then that's it, you've done it.  Should also clarify, I think at that age in France, um, it is more like nursery. It is, it's class days. Yeah, they're doing creative stuff and playing, um, because, yeah, that does sound intense, like school at, at three. 

Yeah, that's, that's funny. He's like, well, I've done that now. I've done it. Do I have to go back? Yeah. Yeah, I was asking on Instagram what tantrums their toddlers had had recently, um, and yeah, one of them was, I sliced an apple and the slices were too small. Oh dear. Um, yeah, you know, that's what kids are like, aren't they?

Can have meltdowns over nothing. I can't remember which one, but one of my sister's children. I don't know which sister, once had a tantrum because he couldn't fit two of his feet in a box. Yeah, yeah.  At the same time. Yeah. And she said she was looking at him like,  I don't know what I can do about that.

Another one we've had was, we were talking about, um, preparing for our second child. Yeah. And we were saying about how People often ask like, oh, are you having another one yet? Like, kind of inappropriate things people are, you know, saying to you. And, uh, I was asking what inappropriate questions have people asked.

Don't, don't you think you're, you're lucky your baby seems so easy?  But it's like, yeah. Like, people only see, like, the best parts, don't they? They don't know what it's like all the time. Um, and go, oh, you've got such an easy baby. And it's like I wish.  Okay, I think that's it. There we go. That's the, that's the show.

Where we chat and ramble away about a topic, a different topic every week. We'll be back with another topic. Thank you for joining us. If you've joined us for the first time here, I hope you've had a good time. We'll see you next time. This is Don't Wake the Baby. Brought to you by Emma and Elliot. Produced by Emma and Elliot.

Edited by Emma and Elliot.  Let's say the last two things produced and edited is, I don't do anything. I'm just here for entertainment value really.  By Elliot,  by Elliot, supported by Elliot, we're marketed by Elliot, we're directed by Elliot, we're recorded by Elliot,  we're