Travel Nightmares | Parents discuss going away on holiday

Surviving with a baby or toddler when you're travelling - abroad and in the UK. Our summer holiday episode. This is the one where Emma and Elliot chat about family holidays with little ones and share their travel horror stories. Long car journeys, work trips, Disneyland Paris, and disastrous plane flights to remember! We discuss how holidays have changed, our experiences growing up, and adjusting to the challenges of being away from home when you're a parent of little kids. Do the rules go out the window? Where's the nearest Zoo? Is it just parenting in a new location?

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Unwind on sleepless nights to a wholesome mix of parenting stories, quirky humour, and cosy crafting. We’re not here to provide answers but to share our experiences, explore how parenting has changed, and build an online community of parents for mutual support.

A fun, honest and unscripted conversation between Emma and Elliot on non-judgemental parenting and millennial-based topics, as we relax on an evening attempting an artistic or creative activity. 

We are a project in partnership with The Kairos Movement and supported by The Methodist Church, of which The Kairos Movement is a part.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:35 Parenting Achievements
• 7:35 Main conversation - Travelling
• 26:30 Why we do the show segment
• 29:10 Main conversation - Holidays
• 52:30 Stories from Listeners

Transcript

 So Emma, what are we chit chatting about today? We are chit chatting about summer holidays. Sorry, I've already forgotten...  parenting while away from home. 

This episode is called Travel Nightmares. 

Crawl into the pop up tent with us. We can never get it back in the bag. Welcome back to the PodCraft. It's time to unwind, take a break from the crying, That could be you or the baby! Or the screaming also could be you or the baby.  And join in with our honest chat about parenting life as we do a craft activity.

We're your co-hosts for today. Well,  generally, normally.  Nothing's changed. I'm Elliot. I'm the one that doesn't drink nearly enough water. Yeah, and I'm Emma and I drink enough water for Everybody.  There's been a bit of a heatwave here recently, um, and so I'm getting lots of headaches because typically I'm  very bad at staying hydrated.

Not a problem for you? Nope. Every time we have to go for a scan, FYI, pregnant, never have to bother drinking more water than normal. Because that's just how much water I drink on a normal basis.  We've got lots and lots to chat about, uh, today. As usual, I've probably picked a massive topic.  Yeah, probably far too vast.

Yeah, we won't cover everything. But that's the way we like to do things. So we'll jump into that soon enough. Um, I just thought I'd share Um, last night I was doing a little arts and craft, uh, for the podcast. If you don't know, you can follow us along on YouTube and every episode, watch a little thing we're doing, a little arty thing, a crafty thing.

We're quite broad with our definition of what, what counts. But, um, if you're into that, you can watch along. Yes, so the last one, I made your birthday cake. If you admire it, it's because Lily picked the theme of Spiderman and Frozen. together.  Just FYI, that wasn't Elliot's choice of cake. But yeah, the craft I did last night, um, I did a typical mistake by me, which was thinking, ah, just sit down for an hour and film myself doing a little activity.

Turned out, it took way longer. It was a much bigger task than I expected. I've done barely a quarter of it.  I'll be back to that multiple nights. So enjoy. There'll probably be one, one video of him. But just appreciate that as hours of work.  He'll be sped up massively. 

Beep, bop, bop, bop, beep! It's Parenting Achievement Time! The segment of the show where we share a parenting fail or a funny story, or just, you know, the level of parenting we've reached that's very relatable. Um, you've noticed I've given up on doing the Yes, the noise. Um, that was far too much work. I can't be going on with that.

I like your robot noise though. Beep, beep, bop, bop. Yeah, well, every time I keep forgetting what the Achievement Unlocked sound effect sounds like. And so, I just go with whatever comes to my head. Let's go with the robot. I like it.  I thought maybe we could, um, Achievement. share and chat a bit today about habits, which we no longer need to do, but are hard to, to give up once you've started them with, with, uh, children.

And so you kind of get into a routine of doing something and then you kind of find yourself one day. When it's completely unnecessary still doing those things and it's like why why am I doing this? So a couple of examples I thought of I don't know if you've got any others that you might like to share  One of them is I remember this was quite a while ago now and we had a stair gate on the stairs Oh, yeah  And you know, it comes to a point where you don't really need it anymore Lilly was very capable and so we took the stair gates off the top and the bottom and Um, and then I found for like, weeks later, I would like, pause at the bottom of the stairs and I remember us discussing it.

It's like we were acting like there was an invisible staircase. Like a phantom staircase. We'd both always wait almost and go, Oh no, I can just walk straight up. It was such a revelation. And like, I'd be coming downstairs or coming round the door and just, I'd stop, like, mid step and be like, Oh. I don't need to do this anymore. 

It's like your body must have muscle memory where it's like, well we stop now. We do something to get up the stairs.  The other one I thought of which kind of ties a little bit into some of what we'll talk about later was around kind of food and meal times.  You kind of get into a habit of eating when toddlers eat.

Yeah. Um, and so it's normally like a very early lunch and a very early tea. Yeah. And then you find Lilly's like away at nursery or something. Yeah, so those days you could kind of do what you wanted. You could go back to normal. But for some reason, you know, you get hungry at like 11 o'clock. Yeah. And you're like, well, I better have lunch.

Yeah, no, we're stuck in the toddler pattern now. Yeah. Even though it doesn't matter when she's like at nursery because she is like, Breakfast lunch and dinner that yeah,  it's really ruined going out for meals. It has like going out on evening or socialising. Yeah  Should we meet at one and we're like Well, we'll have eaten.

Um. It's like two hours past our meal time. Um. We could maybe have a snack with you?  That'd be like the other people are like, well, I don't want to order at lunch if you're not having like, it just makes it awkward. Yeah, so it's like a parenting achievement of like, I've become my child. I basically just do whatever they do.

Yeah, we've developed too much into just adapting. Mm hmm.  Any other examples you can think of of things that we've, habits that are hard to shake?  Not really. I think sometimes I still act like she's a lot smaller than she is. Mmm. So I'm like, come here, I'll help you put your shoes on. And she goes, Lily can do it.

And I'm like, of course you can. Of course you can put your own shoes on.  And admittedly, she's not good with laces, but she's still adamant that she will do it. Um, and sometimes I need her help. But often I She's good because she's quite independent sometimes that she'll be like I can do that. Yeah, why are you trying to help me?

Perfectly capable mom again. It's kind of like muscle memories No, yeah with I always like pick her up to put her in the car seat Yes, and like she's now perfectly capable of climbing in getting into her seats. I have to strap her in Yeah, but you know she can get in and out find herself, but I still have that kind of like Yeah So, yeah, um, things just constantly change as parents.

They just, Gotta adapt. Never, anything stays the same. Um, and you just kind of, yeah, sometimes find yourself going, why am I doing this?  Yeah, So, if, uh, if you have a moment where you've, you know, this week or whenever it's been, uh, when you're listening to this and you've had something where you've paused and gone, why, why am I doing this?

Yeah. You know, um, let us know. Yeah. Get in touch. We'd love to hear your parenting achievement, parenting fail, funny story. Yeah. Um, yeah, uh, you know, fine, find us somewhere online. Um, particularly every week I share on our Instagram stories, um, a little, uh, you know, question to get your responses about parenting stories.

Gets your noggins working. Yep, so you can feed in that way particularly if you'd like, and then we'll mention it on a show. Yep, and stay tuned till the end of this episode and we'll share feedback and comments and stories. Yeah, people have sent us There's some particularly good ones. Oh, yeah, so stay tuned.

I can recommend them 

Keep swimming through that mountain of Lego and let's get chatting about the summer holidays about family holidays about Uh, traveling. Yeah. Um, there's quite a lot to, to get involved with here. Uh, I should have maybe broken it down into multiple, uh, episodes, but hey ho. That's it. I've done it now. I'm sure at a later date we can revisit if we feel like we haven't done something fully, given something fully justice.

Is that a phrase? Fully justice.  The justice it deserves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, if You're listening to this when it comes out. Well, even that probably is not true actually. At the time of recording, uh, we're in the first week of the summer holidays. And so this seemed like a good topic to kind of cover. And I recognize that, you know, not everyone goes away during the summer holidays.

That's perfectly fine. We're not actually this year. We're not going away. So shall we start with, I thought, kind of travel first, and then move on to like the actual parenting when you're on holiday, considering that kind of is the chronological order of what happens. You, you, you normally have to travel to get somewhere, don't you? 

That's a good point. You've, a regular listener, you will know Lilly's not a good  I mean,  Lilly's not a good traveller all round, I would say. You know, just in general, not a good traveller. But I'd say the car's her least favourite realistically now. Yeah. Um. It's a challenge. Yeah. Definitely. Well, and we'll come to some stories about that in a second.

Um. And then of course, like, train we've tried, doing some trains and some long train trips because again, we were trying to avoid the car because we struggle so much. And then, um, obviously like, going abroad on a plane. Uh, we've not tried boats, I don't think? Have we been anywhere on a boat? No, we haven't.

We haven't tried boats. No? Um, what, are there any other means of transport? No.  I mean, Lily likes buses, but we've never been, like, away on a big, long bus trip, coach trip. Well, it's like we've been on boats, but not far. Like, we've been on little cruise y things, you know, you go around a town or something.

It's often, I always forget to explain, you know, a misconception when I say, like, Lily's not good at travelling. I think a lot of people jump to the conclusion that, like, Lily's carsick. Yeah, it's not. And I know that's a challenge a lot of people do have, but that's not what we No, not what we struggle with. 

Lily's actually fine in a car. She's not carsick. Yeah, man. She just gets very grumpy. And bored. And then she just Just hates it. Cries and screams  We've managed it used to be half an hour  Yeah, we now manage an hour Comfortably, she doesn't get too upset. Yeah And when we meet an upset, I mean, she will start screaming until we stop and get out the car Yeah, and like we have to take a break fortunately We've gone through the phase now, but we went through a long long time where she would You Like, try and get out of the car seat. 

And she's very successful at getting out of the car seat. So like, once you cross that threshold half an hour, an hour, like, You couldn't you couldn't just keep going. No, because we've even got extra strappy things  but she's like an octopus like she could somehow even if it was the tightest car seat. Yeah, she could somehow still wiggle I think it's the pure rage she has she could come out wriggle her hand out  It's a good way to describe it.

She just has pure rage. It's just car rage That's what it is Um, I don't know what caused it. I think we've, uh, mentioned before, like, possibly our theory is that, you know, being a lockdown baby and growing up, we didn't really go anywhere during pregnancy and in the very early, and so she just wasn't that used to cars, and so she just finds it very, she hates being confined hate being confined.

So I was like, it's got better.  It's still, so yeah, the tricky bit is though,  either we have the option of holidaying somewhere that's within an hour car journey of our house, which seems like a waste,  or, you know, even to get to my parents down south, it's four, four and a half hour drive.  And to get to a holiday destination, normally we're looking at, you know, about three hours.

You know, me and you, we, we love Scotland. Yeah. We'd love to go back. We haven't been with Lilly because it's too far. It's too far. Like, before we had children, we used to go to Scotland every year. We'd go every year. Yeah. We loved it, but we can't get there. We can't make it.  It's just, it's too far. We'd have to, it'd take, it'd take two days, but we'd have to stop so often. 

And people say if you travel, travelling, tried travelling at night, we have. Yeah, we've tried at night. It's been mildly successful, but the problem is If she loses it at night, it's horrendous because then she hasn't got as much sleep as she's meant to, so it's like a risky game. She is, she likes sleeping in her bed.

She's not one that naturally sleeps in the car. No. I know a lot of children. Yeah, she doesn't naturally go to sleep, no. The issue with the car is, both a positive and a negative often, it sends kids to sleep. Yeah. Which is good for travelling, but then maybe not so good for night times. But at least you can deal with that.

Yeah. Yeah. But Lilly doesn't sleep in the car. Sometimes works. Sometimes does. Sometimes backfires.  I thought people are gonna go, hey, have you tried travelling at night? And I'd be like, yes. Yes, we have. Yeah,  I mean if you have tips, please do send them. I mean we might go, yeah, we've tried that, doesn't work. 

But I'd still love to hear them. Yeah, I think I know this one's got this bad parenting, but she's getting More into watching things now, so I'm hoping It's getting easier because as she gets older she can engage and absorb things, like she can see stuff out the window, she can And we chat about what animals can you see.

And this is what I sometimes do if she's getting a bit whiny, I'll pretend I've seen something very exciting outside, like a giraffe. Which once again, it's lying, but it keeps her entertained trying to look for it. When she was, um, you know, a baby, you know, kind of under one or so before she was properly a toddler.

Just car journeys used to be you singing incessantly. Oh, incessantly. This is when we say she's never liked cars. Yeah, like not even when she was little. And even then, even with you singing incessantly, like, she would still not be happy. She'd often be still be crying the whole time. Yeah. Keep her on the, on the, on the verge of not having that, that rage.

Completely meltdown.  Yeah, I remember at the end I'd be, think I was going to go crazy. You know who thinks this so much? You go, I don't even know if these are the words anymore. Like I don't, I think I'm going, I'm losing it. I can't, I can't keep singing. But there'd be certain songs that seem to comfort her more.

So you just keep going with them.  Yeah. You can maybe understand now why, uh, we've called this episode Travel Nightmares, um, because I think one of the I think it might make people feel better.  Yeah, yeah. I think one of the big, you know, the huge challenges for us, uh, in terms of holidays is this travel element.

Yeah. Just getting to where we're going. Just getting to where you want to go. Is a massive problem for us. Yeah. Um, yeah. Before we move on to the other modes of transport, you know, one of the tips we had, I think we found maybe on TikTok, maybe someone sent it to us, I can't remember, that has been mildly successful is, um, having presents.

So we wrap up gifts, um, for her to open like, every 15 minutes in the car. We don't just waste money, we generally wrap up toys that she hasn't seen for a while. Again, if you've listened to any of our past episodes, you'll know, uh, you know, in terms of consumerism and eco stuff. Well, and we're not made of money.

Yeah, yeah, and literally money. Um, we're, we're kind of keen to not waste money. Yeah, Lily does have a lot of toys. She does. But we do try and, like, reduce It's like, one of my jobs today, I'm gonna go downstairs and just try and go through and get rid of some, um. So yeah, I tend to, like, go and wrap up presents, often ones that have been in the cupboard and haven't been on rotation for a while.

Kind of, maybe a bit fresher. And I wrap them up in wrapping paper. Yeah. And then in the car we can hand a gift so you can unwrap it. And we'll often put two new items, normally it's like a colouring book because that's cheap. Yeah. Um, just so she has the element of it could be. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And that's been mildly successful. Mildly successful. Again, it wouldn't have worked as a baby. No. But now she's a toddler. It does what better? Yeah, and that's how that's how we can get up to an hour  I mean the number of presents we need if we're trying to get you know on a 3 4 hour journey Yeah, you're giving her a present every 10 15 minutes.

She keeps going, I have another one now and you're sat there like These are gonna last the whole journey!  Just play with what you've got, please. Shouldn't do too bad when we went to Wales. So this was our recent holiday, but we did we stopped off somewhere didn't we for quite a while. Yeah. Yeah We'll come back to that.

We'll talk to that about that holiday a bit more in depth in a minute But yeah having a break's pretty good in the middle. So what we often do now, if we're visiting friends We try and find a touristy location Halfway. Halfway, to spend the night.  Most of the day. Yeah, like 2, 3 hours. Like we'll do an hour, hour and a half drive.

To get there, then spend like 3, 4 hours at a tourist attraction. And then do the rest of the journey. Yeah. But that does work, so if you have a similar toddler to us. Yeah. Try and find, this is, this is the best. Quite middle class, but we're National Trust members, so any National Trust place, handy. Yeah, it's pretty good.

We've also been to like, train museum things, half way to places. Yeah, yeah. Or just soft play centres. Or just soft play, yeah. Or even just like a pub for lunch. Yeah. Can be quite a good distraction if you spend long enough there. Yeah. I suppose with all uh, travelling, but particularly in the car, just stocking up massively on snacks and drinks.

Yeah, snacks and drinks. Normally you have a huge bag with us. Yeah. That's like Okay, well, and then So some of the other things we've tried is doing a train journey because then that avoids the need to be in the car, which has been mildly successful because she doesn't have to be strapped in. And she likes trains.

Weirdly enough, I think part of it's because she likes Thomas.  She feels like she's, she's living the program or the book. But, um. The big issue here is, of course, the elephant in the room, our UK train system. Yeah. Which is pretty poor. And it's pretty expensive. Yeah, yeah. So A, it costs a lot more money, typically, than for us to drive.

And the trains aren't reliable. They're not reliable. And then, you know, we did that big trip down for my dad's car. Yeah. Which was down south and they, you know, obviously they really wanted us to be there and we put a lot of effort into getting there because we were like, we can't drive because it was going to be like a six hour journey.

Six hour journey. And we were like, we'll, we'll never get there. We just won't get there. So we did three, we stayed overnight halfway, we did like three different trains,  but even then that was tough. It was. I mean, she didn't lose it. It was more, I think. Us, ourselves, it was very hot on the trains. Well it was, like, packed.

It was packed. Do you remember we were sat on the floor in a corridor? Yeah. With Lily, and it's just like, this is a nightmare.  Yeah, that's what I'm like. Why are we doing this? She coped quite well with the train. But it wasn't a pleasant journey. Yeah, um. And I hated it because I get a bit train sick. Yeah, he doesn't, yeah, this is the part where he doesn't do well with trains.

I'm not a great train traveller, I find it a bit. And you're not great with like, timetables and stuff. Whereas, I don't mind, I'm quite used to all that, but. Yeah. It still wasn't, like, because certain trains get cancelled, then you're like, oh, right, so we're gonna have to get this train. Like, it takes a lot more brain work to work out how you're getting places.

And theoretically. If the system worked fine, you wouldn't have any of these problems. Um, but we found both ways travelling, we, I think we encountered problems both ways.  So, I mean, maybe with a new government, trains might improve. Well, I think they're going to re-nationalise them. So I'm hoping that helps.

There we go. Fingers crossed. We'll see.  This podcast, we're still doing it three years. We might, we might go, oh yeah, it's not working. Yeah, yeah. Our big thing really is we are majorly hoping that a new sibling for Lilly is going to really help with all this travel issue that she will be distracted having someone else.

And then the big one, plane travel. Um, if you thought cars were bad for us, uh, planes, we have basically abandoned plane travel for the last, uh, But she's now great. Well she was when you went with her. Oh yes, that's true. And you went first class, all paid for, expenses trip. By my work. But she was good when we went to Amsterdam. 

Well this is also, she's a bit older, so I don't know if she'd also just deal better with planes anyway. But the first, first, first, Plane trip we went on. She actually wasn't bad on the way there. Was that true?  Well, looking back, I think we would say it was okay. At the time we found it difficult, but of course since we've had way worse experiences.

Um,  so again, I think a lot of people, uh, struggle with plane travel, you know, like again with like sickness, you know, a lot of people that, where they've been sick on planes and stuff. Again, that wasn't an issue we encountered. But when we first went on holiday, she was one. We went abroad. And that wasn't too bad.

Well, yeah. She didn't like being sat on your knee particularly. We tried to do a night time flight so she could sleep. Yes. It was a three hour trip and like you say it wasn't too bad, but she really struggled to go to sleep Well, it's cuz the lights were still on. Oh, no, they were they dimmed them for take off and landing, yeah And we were like, oh, this is great.

Great. Yeah, and then once we were up in the air all the lights came back on and we were like, um Great. Once again, a lot of kids maybe would just sleep through it. Yeah, Lily even at one was Which like, the lights are off. I'm being forced to be strapped onto this person. But then later when she was one and a half or so, um, we did a trip to Disneyland for your 30th birthday.

Oh yes, we did, yeah. And to see your, your sisters. Oh yeah, that was Of course your  sister in France, Becky lives in Paris and we went to see her. Yeah. Um, but that trip was what really put us off plane travel. That was horrific, it was so bad. It was bad on the way there. Um, again, we were just at that age where she couldn't have her own seat. 

I mean, you could say, fortunately, we didn't have to pay for another seat. But yeah, definitely in hindsight, she'd have done better. She hated being strapped to you. And she never left the room. And her legs are quite long.  Ah, and she just wanted to get off the plane. Just hated it. She kept trying to find our passports.

Because even at one and a half, she understood we, we had them to get on the plane. So she kept trying to find our passports and grab them and basically run off screaming.  But the whole, the, I'm, I'm not kidding. The flight is like an hour. The whole hour,  she was hysterical. Yeah. Like And you know we talked about that rage in the car?

It was like that, but more. But more. On a plane. And public. Yeah. Everybody gets to see it. She was like, I can't remember how we described it. She was like, she was possessed by a demon.  She was like, writhing all over you. It was, yeah. She was like, throwing herself about. Her face was red. Red. From From screaming.

I kept thinking that she's gonna have a huge rash because she's so hot. Yeah. That she's so hungry. Yeah. She'd be like clawing at the belt. Yeah. On her to try and get it off.  And just like. And the staff, I want to say, was so nice. And the passengers were nice as well. Nobody was mean. Everybody kept going, oh, I think also they could see we were actively going, Why don't we do this thing?

Why don't we watch something?  Uh, yeah. Yeah. Somebody even was like, the woman, we could, the poor woman beside us. Yeah.  At one point she, I think she ordered like three vodkas and I really felt like being like would you like me to pay  For these vodkas because I feel like we've, we've driven you to drink.

Yeah. Um, this can't be a pleasant experience. Yeah And I remember I kept apologizing and she kept saying it was fine, but I really think the drinking was our fault. Yeah, that was horrendous There was a lovely woman opposite us who'd been trying to help us. And it worked very good. She's very tenacious. So we've picked up this phrase now.

Whenever Lily's got completely lost and we go, well, she's very tenacious. Yep.  But lots of positive.  Yeah, I remember we met Becky and she said we looked like broken people. Yeah. Like they came to pick us up from the airport and she said me and Ellie looked really pale. Yeah. And like we'd be through like some kind of trauma. 

And I remember at the time going to, I don't know how we're going to get home because I can't, I can't go through that again. Yeah. And Becky was like, What do you mean? That's how I don't, I don't know if I can get a flight back. I don't, I don't know if I could do it. And would you know, the flight back was even worse. 

I took some videos on the way back, which I did feel guilty about. You were sat there trying to do this and like I was videoing it, but. There was nothing you could do. Yeah,  exactly, like she didn't really want me. No. We tried, we tried switching, but she was, it, unbelievably, if you saw these videos, you wouldn't believe she could be worse.

But she was worse once she was handed to Elliot. So yeah, just  horrendous. Yeah. After that, I was like, we're not travelling abroad again. But we have been abroad again since then, and it has got a lot better. I think since she's been in her own seat, she's, It's actually been fine. Basically, yeah. Once she had her own seat, she was very happy.

Yeah. But we still have this worry in the back of our mind. It was all like anxiety that she'll suddenly lose it again. So we try to keep plane trips pretty short. Short, yeah. We've not attempted anything over an hour yet. We're thinking next year we might try a two hour trip. Yeah. See how it goes. I think.

Luckily, she's getting to a better age. And our main, main tip for all of this, really, is take someone with you. Yeah, don't go just as a family. Get a grandparent. Yep. A friend and go with another. Another family. You know, go with a family. Family, cousins, and siblings, or I mean, I really like us going as just a little family unit, but it makes it so much more difficult.

It does. Just having someone else there to distract, to give you a break from parenting now and again, to help out, just, it just really helps. 

Oodle Alley. I just know how to begin. Ood Ally, he's, wait. You, Robin Hood. You can get more involved with our Don't wait. The baby community. In the YouTube comments or over on Instagram, both of which are at Don't Wake The Baby Underscore Podcast. Our real aim is, uh, to kind of connect with. with all of you out there, other parents, particularly around Yorkshire, but wherever you're listening from.

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Um, how, what do you reckon, how do you, would you describe your spirituality? Um, I think I would say I'm, I'm a very liberal Christian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically we don't have any fire damnation in our  lives or judgment.  You know, I think kind of. Our faith stuff is a bit like our parenting. We're kind of very non-judgmental.

Um, we don't really mind what you believe or anything. Uh, it's more interesting in how you act. Yeah. I think we're very much, whatever works for you, works for you. Yeah, exactly. If you've got like a different belief system that works just as well for you, then you do that. And do the best you can, you know, just deal with each day as it comes in your faith and in your parenting.

Yep. I think the main thing for me is just, you know, like being kind to people. So, you know, this is just us. chatting away because we like doing it and it's something to offer you to get us through the sleepless nights and I hope, I hope it's helpful. Find out more about what we're up to, about getting involved, the community, how you can find out more about our faith and spirituality, or all the stuff you can find on our webpage.

Ta da! Oodalally!  I think this is accurate. I'll correct you if it's wrong. Yeah, that's it. Or it could be like a quiz too. What was the first holiday we did? I think we went to  It's difficult to define sometimes. Bakewell? Yeah, that's it. So that was around  six weeks when Lily was six weeks old. Yeah, she was little.

very early on, um, when Lily was about a year, we went to Crete, um, which again, we've covered a little bit in another episode when we talked about potty training, um, cause that was just when we were, Uh, getting fully potty trained. Fully potty trained, yeah. If you don't know, we did very early potty training.

And then about half a year later, uh, in kind of the January of the following year, um, so I suppose not summer holidays, but it was a big trip for us. We did a Disneyland trip. We did, yeah. Um, and then in the summer that year when Lily was a, just turned two, uh, we did a couple of things, I think. Earlier in the summer, we did a trip with my parents to Blackpool. 

Oh yes, we did, yeah. Um, which, it's one where we did a long train journey. We did. To get there, and That wasn't too bad, actually, the train to Blackpool. It's not as far as we went down south, was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, the big one there was we had the experience of doing a British holiday, uh, Therefore, it was Terribly wet.

It was really bad weather. Very windy. Very rainy. Um, and what to the people who don't know it's a seaside town  So our main reasons for being there. Yeah, we couldn't really do a beach holiday in the wet  What it's like in the uk  She liked the uh, fun arcade bits though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,  and then um sometime around then I think it was late summer I can't really remember.

We did a trip to Amsterdam. Yes You It is sounding like we are doing a lot of holidays, but actually, you know, we're not made of money. That trip actually, was  that a work trip for you? That was my work trip for me that me and Lily tagged along with. Yeah. Uh, and was actually like, was it a weekend through three days?

It was a, yeah, days, like a long weekend. Three days. Yeah. And Disneyland as well was uh, like a weekend. Yeah. Like it wasn't a whole week, very expensive weekend. Very, you know. Yeah. Yeah, that was a very expensive weekend. And then, um, at the kind of Christmas time, when Lily was about two and a half, you did another work paid for trip to Paris.

Yeah, so if people don't know, um, my office is Paris-based. Yeah. So for their Christmas party, they always pay for everybody to go over. Yeah, and like, You, during COVID times, you didn't do a lot of travelling. We didn't, so they basically had a lot of, at the minute they've got a lot of funds. Yeah, so you've done quite a lot of travelling recently and were able to take like Lily with you on that occasion.

So that wasn't, um, a family holiday and it wasn't a summer holiday, but it was a trip abroad and you did, you flew and, you know, I think it's great. Kind of counted like a Then we come to this year where Lily's three and it's been a bit, a bit more toned down this year. We've done one family trip to Conway in North Wales and we drove there and we've not really done anything else.

We've done a little bit of camping in the garden. Yeah, camping in the garden. Um,  but that's about it. Yeah, we have no plans for the rest of this year to go anywhere. Um, we're hoping next year  It's going to be Elliot's 30th, so we've booked a, it's more like a, and it's another British holiday, um, and maybe we'll try and go abroad properly, but we'll, we'll see when we get there, how we're all doing. 

I think kind of unpopular opinion probably is that we are pretty strict at sticking to like schedules and structures, even when we're away. So,  Like, to some extent, rules go out the window. Definitely to do with food. Yeah. So I was talking to one of my friends recently, and she said how, um, she was talking to one of her friends, and they're like, oh, yeah, it's been terrible.

My kid said, like, two ice creams this week while we've been on holiday. And, like, she looked at me, and she was like,  yeah, that was, like, every day. And I said, oh, multiple times a day. Like, when we're on holiday, I really, because they're in a new place,  I, I, I'm like, it's a holiday. I don't care if you want to have an ice cream, you know, three, four times a day.

It's, it's holiday. I'm not going to say you have to eat certain things and  But with regards to, like, schedule, we are quite strict because she gets quite grumpy when she's not on her schedule. Lily's always been quite a routine-orientated child and doesn't really do well being taken out of that. But we're both quite routine-orientated people.

Yeah, we are. We are, it's true. We're not spontaneous. We're not exciting. We just, we stick to our boring lives. We like our routines. Yeah. Yeah.  Um, so yeah, so we, we, we don't really flex on things like nap times and bedtime, um, like the general meal times and structure of the day. Yeah. Like we try to keep, you know, even when we move into like different time zones abroad.

Yeah. We try and keep on British time. We basically stay on British time. That is true. Cause my sister thought it was really, um, this is shout out to Becky, when we were in France, she was like, you could, you could flex it by an hour. And then she saw like. We've really tried to keep Lily up, um, to eat slightly later with everybody when we're all in France.

And like, she saw how upset Lily was getting to her, and I see why you kind of just stick to it. I was like, yeah, because she wasn't badly behaved, but she was just crying. Like, just sat sobbing because she wanted to go to bed. And I was like, yeah, she doesn't, she doesn't do well. Yeah. Going out with the routine.

Um, and I think it's hard sometimes because other kids are fine. Yeah. And it's hard for people to understand. But when you go, no, she has to. Like, she's really thinged about going to bed at a certain time and Holidays can be quite, you know, exhausting. Exhausting, yeah. Just because, you know, you're in a new place, there's so much stimulation.

You're doing stuff all day. There's a temptation, you know, to just Go out and pack every day that you're away with activities and make the most of it, but  It can make your life miserable. Yeah, you know, I think Um, yeah, we tend to keep it fairly relaxed. Well, this is we've also learned. Um, this wasn't about the welsh holiday, but  I know some people go it's very uncultured But we really have grown to like all-inclusive holidays where you don't really have to go anywhere.

I know it sounds like people are like, Oh, well, what's the point of going? And for us, it's the weather, um, cause you know, we're British. It's not good weather here and it's nice to go somewhere else and have a beautiful pool. And, and I know people are like, you don't see any of the culture. I'm like, you know what?

We don't really. Yeah. But, what's easy with a kid is that you know there's going to be entertainment, and you know there's going to be a pool, and you know where everything is. And you don't,  unless you really want to go on a trip, you don't have to. You can just say this also,  and it's easy. And I know people don't like that.

But I'm just saying. But like,  Holidays Abroad, where we plan it. This is now going to be our future for the next probably five years. Yeah. Because that's what's easy and doable. Yeah. Well, um, as we're talking about it, why don't we transition into, uh, a little segment that I was going to bring up later.

It's a return to a segment that we, we used to have a while ago. What, 

what is this segment? I'm intrigued. What time is it? It's the 90s! 

So throwback to when we were young, uh, and chatting, uh, just briefly in the middle here about maybe how things looked different when we were growing up, um, cause we were kind of into that area already with what you were talking about. Um, so for me growing up, we really didn't do a lot of all-inclusive or mass tourism. 

Go to, we did a lot of British holidays and I did a lot of camping. Yeah. Um, and I did a lot of adult holidays and like, city breaks and cultural stuff where we'd walk around and,  um, yeah. Yeah. So, very, very different experience. We, well, we didn't have much money, so we used to often go, um, caravanning in Wales, so you could go to a caravan park.

Mm. And as a kid, this is, this is, As a kid, it was still excellent. So this one, I know people are like, we want to do all these ambitious things, but as a child going on any holiday is just fun. Yeah, definitely. Um, makes memories. Yeah. So we would just go to holidays in Wales. If anyone knows, I don't know if they exist anymore.

It was like Bradley bears  and we'd go to different Bradley bear locations. Yeah. Um, But as a child that was really fun. Well it's true because we did quite a lot of abroad holidays and travelled quite a bit, but actually what I remember most was like our camping trips in Cornwall and the Lake District where we went with friends and you know, we did very simple things.

But it's very memorable. Very memorable. Because just, we had a lot of fun. Yeah. It was very simple. And then, because we didn't travel abroad I think until we were about 11. Yeah. Um, and then we did go, um, well the first, I think the first holiday we did wasn't all-inclusive because I don't know if they were that big a thing back then?

Well I think that's it isn't it? Things have changed so much. Yeah. Like I was thinking about how the debate these days for us is about do we go self-catering or do we go? Yeah. All-inclusive or to a hotel. And honestly, looking recently is often cheaper just to go all-inclusive. Yeah. But then the flexibility of self-catering can be quite, you know, and you're not stuck to their meal times.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah. So in our Wales holiday, I think when we do British holidays, we tend to do self catering, whereas when we go abroad, we tend to do, but, you know, I was thinking about when I was growing up, you know, Airbnb, like wasn't, you know, A thing. No. You know, so, like, of course, we always went to hotels.

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure self catering was a thing, but we just didn't really tend to do that. No, we never went self catering anywhere. Well, no, we did, but this is like, well, yeah, when we did very cheap holidays abroad, it'd be like Portugal, and we'd have, like, a little flat.  Right. And you'd like, but I think we only did that once, and then we kind of discovered all inclusive.

We all learned to pack very small. Oh, yeah, this was on my Ahem.  So, like,  most of the time, I can travel just with hand luggage. Um, so it was a big adjustment when we had Lily.  You were like, oh my goodness, we've got so much stuff to bring. It is crazy, isn't it? Like, when you have kids, the amount of stuff there is to take.

Because their clothes aren't that big. Yeah. But, and it's getting easier now. I mean, once again, once we have the next one, it'll be a whole load of stuff again. But  She's got to do it now, it's not too bad. Yeah. But it's still just We always struggle with this. I mean, you know, yeah, me growing up, my parents and my family, we do not do things by halves.

They, they pack the kitchen sink. Yeah. They pack everything you could ever need. So like, I'm really not used to packing light. Uh, so it's really, and to be fair, my excuse is that I'm Big. You are big. Lily and Emma are quite small. Like, your, you know, your leggings for example, you roll up and they become like the size of a pair of socks.

I'm like, well of course you can fit them in like hand luggage. If I try and fold my jeans up, they take up so much space. They're never going to be that little. And then like shoes and things just. Yeah. So normally we're going and  Lily and Emma have. A hand luggage bag each. A joint case. A joint case and two hand luggage bags is normally.

And like, they have less stuff than just me. Yeah, yeah.  This is one of the things where I prefer like car trips, you know. Yeah. One of the challenges of train travel is you do have to pack. Yeah. You know, very economically. Uh, with the car you can just shove a load of stuff in. Yeah, it's true. Um, you know.

And like you say, yeah, when they're young babies there's, you You know, so much stuff. Like, just trying to fit pushchairs and prams. Or even, like, all the nappies in. Yeah. Because you don't know often where the shop will be, what size. You kind of have to take nappies enough for a week. And when they're little, that's a lot of nappies.

And I think one of the things that has changed since the 90s, uh, it seems to me anyway, is, like, planes used to, like, give you quite a lot of allowance for baggage and you got You know, the overhead lockers and stuff included. Nowadays, they're like, cutting down on it. They're like, you can't bring anything with you.

You have to pay for it. If you want to take a bit of a big, not a, not a suitcase, a bigger bag into hand luggage. They're like, got to pay for that. Yeah. Um, so while we're, while we're in the nineties, Um, I have a question for you. Oh? Um, I'm intrigued how it worked, like, just travelling and holidays with like four of you.

Yeah! Like, did you do long road trips with all, like, four of you? Like, how did you get anywhere? I will say I remember we didn't have much money. I remember often  it would be a very long bus ride from like the airport to wherever we were staying. Right. And like, because it would be one of those that the, whichever company we'd gone with, we went with like Monarch and these funny old companies that I don't use anymore.

Um, and they like stop at all these hotels. So,  I remember it was so hot and you'd be sat in the bus. And, uh, like we were all, this is, they were very fortunate. We were very all patient and quite well behaved. This is probably when you go 11 or 10, they're just in a better mood. But  yeah, it was like, and we used to travel funny hours cause it was cheaper.

Yeah.  So I'd say maybe the main thing was expense because there's four of you. So we'd always be travelling 40 hours. And we'd always be getting very long bus journeys to where we were going.  But we'd all be like, oh my god, now we've got to go on the bus. It's going to be like three hours. It might not have been three hours.

This might be my young mind making it more. But it was hot and it was long. But it was a very different dynamic, I presume, that, you know,  what, like, did you play games and stuff? Like, there was four of you, and like, it's quite a bit, like, a big family unit, really, if you all go in places. And it was good fun in that, um, so we had a lot of independence, because obviously you can't offer in one room, so mum and dad would have a room, then it was normally, I think, Was it me and Laura?

Or me and I don't know now. It was, then you'd be two of you in one room and two of you in a room, so you'd have three rooms. Um, and that was quite nice as, like, a young teenager to have your own space. Yeah. So that was always quite fun. Um, and you were kind of treated semi like an adult because you had your own room, so you could kind of  do what you wanted. 

It's just so different for me, because obviously being an only child, like, my main, Memories of like travelling and holidays and stuff, a kind of  entertaining myself on long trips. It's when I talk about car games and he's like, what do you mean car games? And I was like, and I like introduced you to like the alphabet game and see what you have to say in animal beginning with different letters.

Yeah, yeah. Whereas, you know, our car journeys, it would be my mum and dad listening to Radio 4 and the news or something. And I'd be sat in the back, um, with like my portable CD player listening to like Harry Potter audio books. Um, or later on, I think I had a, like a portable DVD player with like a little folding screen.

See this shows, you were quite fancy, we didn't have those things. Yeah, yeah. Cause there's only two and a half years between us, they definitely would have been around at the same time. Again, it was like, yeah, I don't know, early teens and. I remember eventually getting a portable CD player, but it wasn't as fun because it was more like a community event in the car.

Yeah. Mum and dad would often put on, this is when we're once again in the 90s, they'd put on CDs. So this is how like, we'd all just sing along to Meatloaf or ABBA or, you know, The Carpenters or something. Whereas I'd be watching like, Star Wars prequels on my little screen, just sat by myself with my headphones in.

It's true, so like, you know, fast forwarding, we're out of the 90s now, back into the 90s. current day. Yeah. Um, yeah, we, you know, we have Disney CDs in the car that for a while we, but like these days. We just put Spotify in my phone, don't we? We just use Spotify, like we don't need CDs anymore. But yeah, we still listen to Disney songs and things on long journeys.

And that's something we do to try and keep Lily entertained.  So yeah, I suspect Lily's growing up and experience will be more similar to yours than it will be to mine. But I think that's because it has my influence, so I'm like, let's listen to some songs!  Let's play a game! Go on!  Yep. Um, so back into what we were talking about, uh, around parenting when you are away, um, there's all sorts of things, isn't there, really?

Um, you know, we've mentioned about, um, Food and sugar and ice cream and stuff. Yeah, there's also like the same thing with toys. Yeah So when we were away in Wales, I don't know somehow we ended up buying like, oh, yeah toy for Lilly every day I mean, it was quite good because there was a lot of charity shops Yeah, yeah  so  We're getting a lot better not at Not not getting a toys, but we're getting a lot better at going You can have a toy, but it's going to be this price.

So it's going to be like one of the cheapest toys we have here. Um, Again, we're trying not to buy loads of stuff, and trying to be good in terms of consumerism and the environment, but just sometimes you want to avoid a tantrum, you want to distract her, and And sometimes I feel, this is when,  I think, because I grew up, and once again, not terribly poor, but we didn't have money to spend.

Yeah. I often get into the mindset, which is, it isn't terribly healthy, where I go, oh, but we could. Like, it's not gonna hurt us, it's not, you know, she really wants this thing, and like, it'll make the holiday fun, and I think, because I'm not in the necessity of, well, we couldn't spend that money on the toy, um, and I don't know if it is a good mindset, but it's often, I have to go, but will it hurt anyone?

No, let's just get it, um,  Like, that she has really loved the Puffin toy we got. Mmm. Mmm. Um, this is a problem. She shows a lot of love to her toys. Well this is, you know, this ties very much into, um, the episode we did do around, kind of, um, the pressure to buy things as parents. And, you know, when you're on holiday, you tend to do quite a lot of touristy things.

Yeah. And it's in those places where, you know, you're coming out and you're directed through a gift shop. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, no, please don't put the cuddly toys right in Lily's eyeline. And then she's like, hmm, yes, I would like a puffin. I would like a puffin, yeah. Or you, or you know, we're just bad parents and like, halfway round, you know, going around a National Trust place and halfway around we're like, she's losing her patience.

And we're like, just hang on, and we'll buy you something at the gift shop, okay? Okay, deal? Just bribing her. Yeah, come on. And then you get to the gift shop and realise it's like 20 quid for like a tiny little thing. Yeah, it's good. I know it sounds stupid, but if she's been, To similar places before she's not as enamoured.

So like with aquariums now She's really uninterested in the toys because and we haven't even bought that many because I think she's like we've gone to quite a lot Of aquariums. She's like, well, this is like every other aquarium toy section I've seen she's no longer taken by them  True. So in some ways, I think she's kind of become desensitized to certain things.

Yeah It's interesting, isn't it? I wonder what other people do on holidays. You know what, like, I think we have very similar patterns of, I don't know whether it's just because we're, you know, a bit middle class, but, you know, when we're abroad, we do a lot of beach stuff, and just sit and enjoy and swim and things, and And we'll maybe do like, two trips total, the whole time.

Yeah, little excursions. Yeah, sometimes a boat trip, and sometimes like, where you go to the old town or something. Yeah, yeah. You can tell we often go to like Greek and Spanish islands and things, you know, you get the idea. And then UK holidays, you know, we do all the like typical national trust, English heritage, like gardens and I mean, if there's a beach, we normally go to the beach.

Yeah, just the weather's not normally great. It's not normally great, no. A UK beach holiday. In Wales, we had to really go So, right, um, two, these two days, it was the first two days, it's going to be sunny. Yeah. So we need to go to the beach these two days. Beach today. This is it. It's our only chance. We've only just got here, but we need to go to the beach.

We don't care if you don't want to go, we are going. But the weather wasn't actually too bad for it being Wales. We did okay. We did quite well. As things go. Yeah. So yeah, and I suppose the other thing that comes with all those touristy places is they often do cost quite a bit of money to go in, particularly if you're not members, or if it's like an independent place or, you know, whatever it is, a museum or something.

And then having a toddler with us, like, often you'll have spent all that money, and you'll spend like  half an hour, an hour, Maybe, maybe two hours tops. Two hours tops, yeah, two hours is pretty good. Yeah, yeah, and they're, and they're getting sick of it and want to go, or it's getting near food time. Yeah.

Well,  I suppose we're leaving now. Yeah, like with Conway Castle, it was quite expensive, um, and for most people, I'm sure you could make, you know, There's quite a lot to do there. Probably three hours out of it. Yeah, I think we were there for an hour Yeah, um, and we arrived early because you know, yeah, we're up early.

Yeah  And so therefore we we got into it early and then we're basically leaving just as everyone else is arriving Wait, I mean it is good. You miss a lot of crowds  But I don't think they had a cafe either which is one of the reasons we quite like National Crossroads  Extends the day. Extends the day because you can go to the cafe and then come back out and have a look at things.

Yeah.  Whereas at that point, we're like, well, we need to find food now because, you know, it's toddler time. It's like 11. 30. It's lunchtime. Um, so I mean, that is the advantage, you know, one of the things we do nearly always do on holidays is, as you've already said, aquariums. Yeah. But also zoos. Yeah, yeah.

Lily loves animals, so trying to find a zoo is always a great idea. And they typically have cafes and things. So we can spend quite a lot of time there. So they feel They feel worth it. Even though zoos are terribly expensive. Terribly. Just Oh, I normally have to have a sit down after looking at those prices.

Honestly, some of them are the price of Disneyland.  And I know, I know people like, well, Disneyland's overpriced. I'm like, yeah, but that's kind of my point.  I almost see that as, oh, that's, it's quite a pricey thing going to Disneyland. And I get, I get, you've got to feed all the animals and everything. I do understand.

But I feel like when we were young, zoos were not that expensive.  Um, and it might be they ain't keep them as in good conditions, I don't know, but they are very expensive to go to a zoo now. Yeah. Um, shout out though, we went to the Welsh Mountain Zoo? Yeah, very good. And that was reasonable. Mm hmm. And it was a great little zoo.

Pretty big as well. Yeah. So, shout out, if you ever go to Conway or that area, there's a good zoo around there. Yeah. We now kind of, uh, base holidays around where are the zoos. Oh, we do, yeah. So we're like, rather than looking for a destination, we're like, where has a zoo? Where has a zoo, um, or a big aquarium that we could go?

Which is how we ended up in Blackpool, if you're wondering why we ended up in Blackpool. 

So, darling co host, how would you rate the summer holidays? On a scale of ice cream to kid scream. Well,  I thought I would um, try and uh, what's the word? Formalize this a little bit and provide four different categories. We'll see if this sticks or not. Okay. I might end up changing. So my four categories are currently titled uh, sleepless dread down at the bottom, illness anxiety, a screen time escape, or a top of the ladder childhood memory. 

I think for children, it's the top of the ladder childhood memory.  I think for parents, at the minute, I'm optimistic they all seem to be going well. I would say, had you asked me a year ago, I think, is it sleepless dread? Yeah. About travelling, I think I would have had that. We've had some horror stories, haven't we?

We have, yeah, yeah.  Holidays can be like a good escape, a screen time escape. Because I would say like, you know, our recent one in Wales, she did really well the whole time.  But then again, often it's just, you know, parenting in a new location. Yeah. So, you know, part of it's just the typical, Yeah, maybe I'd fall in illness anxiety. 

Do these make any sense at all? I think they do! It just takes me a second to remember the four categories you've given me. There we go. Well, stay tuned to next week to see if this rating system, um, sticks around. Exists still. Well, I don't know what we're doing here. Whatever this is. Okay, time for some stories from our listeners that have been sent in.

So, shout out to Anna, who's been a guest on the podcast before,  who has said that they went camping recently,  and the kids screamed so loud, At midnight that people came over to check in on them. Oh,  they thought something was wrong.  I can just imagine it. Another one that was sent to us was a story of how someone's gone to stay with their, their parents solo with the baby.

And, um, What, what's happened is they, they drove there, uh, 120 miles from home, um, and then they, they left something in the car that they needed and then realized that it had gone home again. Oh no. Um, and I'm like, oh no. And I was, I was saying, yeah, isn't it so relatable that you're, it always feels like you forget something.

Yeah. And then I got a message back to find out that after all that, um, they, she'd done like a 40 minute drive to go and get another one. And found out that actually, um, It was in the pram all along, so it wasn't in the car, so, uh. That's such a me thing to do. I literally responded and said, that made me laugh.

Because that's such a thing we would do. Yeah, definitely. Because I think we'd also panic and go, Oh my goodness, we don't have it, we better go get another one. And I think often you'll panic. And also, once you have a toddler, things can go anywhere. And then another, a plain horror story. for us from someone that sent in a, uh, a message to say they just got back from Malta, uh, and their little girl, projectile vomiting, um, on the plane all the way home will be a lasting memory.

Oh, yeah. Um, yeah.  So feel for you.  My sister, Laura, who lives in Plymouth, her youngest is really gets really travel sick.  The last time they were playing, they kept giving him these little bags and in the end they just gave him a bin bag because he was throwing up so much. They were like, we're just gonna give him a bin bag because, like, this,  like, we're just filling tiny bags of sick and it seems a bit ridiculous at this point.

There we go, if you have horror stories, do let us know. We'd love to hear them. Make, make the whole community feel better. Um, it's all very relatable, isn't it? But anyway, yeah. Thanks for joining us in the pop up tent today, um, we'll try and squish it back in the bag, see if we can get it in. Probably will never fit.

Go back to your Lego, whatever it is you're up to on these summer holidays, uh, whether you've got Wiping sick off you. Yeah, yeah. If you're travelling, if you're abroad, if you're in the UK,  or if you're just at home for the summer holidays, I hope you have a good time. I hope even if it's, Just the same as normal, that you can find some escape and a bit of a break.

I think that's the end, isn't it? We trail away into the nothingness. Goodbye.  So professional, isn't it? Yeah. Really should come up with an ending one of these days...