Fitting in playdates | Parents discuss making friends

Top tips for making new friends as a parent? This is the one where Emma and Elliot have a fun chat about the challenges, struggles and reality of maintaining adult friendships when you have a baby or toddler. Including being busy and the parent guilt of not finding time to meet up. An entertaining episode with lots of laughs as we joke about how poor Elliot is at this, as a typical man. Looking at the perspective of both mums and dads. Does age matter? Can you have friends who don't have children? Who organises the playdates? Are there other millennials at your workplace?

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Unwind on sleepless nights to a wholesome mix of parenting stories, quirky humour, and cosy crafting. We’re not here to provide answers but to share our experiences, explore how parenting has changed, and build an online community of parents for mutual support.

A fun, honest and unscripted conversation between Emma and Elliot on non-judgemental parenting and millennial-based topics, as we relax on an evening attempting an artistic or creative activity. 

We are a project in partnership with The Kairos Movement and supported by The Methodist Church, of which The Kairos Movement is a part.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:50 Parenting Achievements
• 6:15 Making friends
• 20:05 Why we do the show segment
• 22:30 Back to the Conversation
• 40:35 Stories from Listeners

Transcript

So Emma, what are we discussing today? Today we are discussing the struggles or the effort to make friends as parents. 

This episode is called Fitting in Playdates. 

Welcome back to the Treehouse Hideout. Escaped from the world for a while and unwind with our little podcraft. The fun, honest and non judgmental conversation starter for parents. The Treehouse Hideout. Made by parents. That's us. We're a husband and wife. We live in North Yorkshire. We have a three year old daughter called Lily and another one due very soon.

Very soon. It's getting scary.  I'm Elliot. I'm half your co no, half your co host. Am I a quarter coast?  It's like you've been cut in half, and I've been cut in half, and they're the same size together. Just a full co host, not a, not a quarter co, quarter co co ho ho. You're just a co host. Yep, there we go. Um, what was I saying?

Oh, uh, something about us. I'm Elliot. I, I went to university in Aberystwyth and studied countryside management. I'm Emma and I also went to Aberystwyth University and I studied Romance Languages, which meant I did French, Spanish and Italian. I've not heard you describe it like that before, Romance Languages, that sounds quite fun.

That was its technical name. Wow. Yeah, because people who stores tease me like, oh, Romance Languages. All about the romance. Well, there you go. If you didn't know that about us, you still do stuff to do with your languages. Yes, my job is to do with my degree. I do nothing to do with my university degree anymore, but there you go.

Let's, let's chat about some parenting. 

Welcome to the segment of the show, Parenting Achievement Time. Parenting Achievement Time.  It's like a little 90s jingle on a TV show. Um, yeah, so this is the bit where we like to share a funny story or a parenting fail. Um, I'm not prepared. What are we going to talk about? I don't know. There's so many at the minute I could think of as well.

Yeah, we've been having a lot of meltdowns recently. A lot of meltdowns. A lot of tantrums, a lot of, um, I don't think we've talked about this before but, um, we've got to that phase where Lily's very good at talking but there's often times when  Not that you can't understand what she's saying, but just, I don't know what she's on about.

She's like, almost talking nonsense and she's having a meltdown about it. And you're like, what, what do you want? What? Your words do not make sense. And then you're like, calm down, calm down. And then she calms down and then you go, so what's the problem? Then she gets up again and goes, ah, but no, but no, but no.

And you're like, no, no, because now I can't understand you again. Can we calm back down again and try and talk about what the problem is? Yeah, and it can be just irrational content. Yeah, it can just be I'm pretty sure today's was that so  such a backstory to this basically Every year my family have a big Christmas party.

Yeah a long time listeners. You'll know about this And this year, Disney's going to be the scene. Yep. So, she's been very excited and she started assigning other, assigning characters to different family members. She loves looking at dresses for her and Sophie. Yeah. To be like, we're going to be Anna and Elsa and these are the dresses we're going to wear.

These are the dresses we're going to wear. And then she holds it on my phone and Elliot's phone and just keeps them up to look at them. Yeah. As she's living her life, going about doing other things.  This could just be a story in itself. It's just, sometimes toddlers are so bizarre. Like, you know, she's just walking around the house holding both of our phones, looking at two different dresses.

Doesn't want to do anything with them, just wants to hold them and know they're there so she can look down and go, Yes, these are the dresses. These are the dresses we bought. Um, but anyway, this morning we were watching, as we do,  I'm watching Frozen this morning. What do you know? It was Frozen. Yeah, um, and she got very upset.

And I think it's because she was trying to tell me that baby Sophie wasn't in the TV as Anna. Yeah. But I couldn't quite work out. And I kept saying, oh yeah, since you'll wear a dress. And she's going, no, no, baby Sophie TV Anna. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know what the problem is. We've got, we've got kind of just this concept, baby Sophie TV Anna.

Yeah. And from that, we have to extrapolate what on earth you're getting upset about. Yeah. And I kept being like, yeah, she will be Anna. No, that's not, that wasn't the correct answer. No, that's the dress baby Sophie's gonna wear. No, that wasn't what it's about. I'm still unsure what it's about. I still really don't know what it was about.

I think it may be the ridiculous thing that she almost wanted to see baby Sophie in the TV and Anna. I'm not, I'm not sure.  Or maybe she wanted baby Sophie to come and watch the TV. But I mean, they live miles away. I don't know how she'd have thought that would happen. I suppose we've been having recently just.

These little, little stories, these little scenarios just happening constantly, just day after day, week after week, and it just wears you down. Just all these little things that are just something so upset her, she's just not quite happy about it, you just don't, yeah, and just, it feels like you're failing at life sometimes, just.

I was going to say, Elliot does get a lot more frustrated than I do. Yeah, well it's because it often happens like first thing on the morning or last thing at night, and it's those moments when I'm most tired or just like, Struggling to get by myself.  That's when she's like, also having a tantrum. Because she's also tired and she's like, uh.

No, it's just, it's just life, isn't it? I don't know if that's an achievement, it's a um, a story. Does this sound relatable? Do you have similar scenarios? Do you have similar things going on this week? Or you've experienced, it's your time as a parent? Let us know, get in touch, uh, we'd love to hear you, we'd love, we'd love to hear you.

We'd love to hear you. Um, and stay tuned till the end of the episode when we'll share some parenting stories and comments or things sent in by listeners. 

Pack up the nursery bag and strap your kid in the car and let's have a little conflab about, uh, Making friends.  I feel like you're going to have to drive this conversation, Emma, because I can honestly say I've been pretty unsuccessful since, you know, since, I don't know, leaving university when I've had to adult.

Yeah. You know, look after my own life. I don't think, you know, outside work I've not really made any friends. But I thought we could discuss that. Yeah. I feel like there are certain struggles you face that I maybe don't face It's quite hard, like. It is, yeah. We'll start with the struggles, I think. So something I'm like, aware of is I've got a few friends, but I constantly feel guilty because you've got to rearrange things all the time.

Because  when you're, the problem is you end up being friends with other parents. Because that's who you interact with. Your kid goes to things you make friends with, or the parents whose kids go to those things too. Yeah, if you're, if you're a woman, sure.  If you're me, you stand around awkwardly and don't talk to anyone.

That's true. Okay, if you're me, you chat to these people, you make friends, you make connections. Yeah, yeah. And then I constantly have things, Would you like a playdate this date? Would you like a playdate that date? Yeah, yeah. And for various reasons.  Our kid's ill, their kids are ill. Yeah. Something comes up.

So at one point, I'm not kidding, it was six months before one of these playdates happened. Yeah. And you're still good friends with them. You just kind of feel like you're letting people down all the time. So there's two things here, isn't there? Like the big challenge really is this kind of time. It's like trying to find time.

Even once you've found someone, you're like, well, let's try and be friends. Yeah! How, like, Let's meet up! Trying to meet up, it's so difficult. It is difficult. To then get to know people, because it's like, none of us have any time. No. Like, what, I mean, we barely have time to live, let alone,  like, do, and it feels like sometimes this is, Like an extra, like a, you know, almost put in the category of hobbies. 

Whereas really I feel like it should be essential to life, you know, having friends, but trying to find space for it in our schedules. Yeah,  um, but it is good with other parents because they also are very understanding, so they both often know. Um, that like when we're making plans, we're like, I can't do now, but I can do three months time this day, and we all put it in your diaries.

Um, which is good, because I feel like people without children often don't understand why you have to make plans so far in advance. Well, this is the thing, isn't it? And it's interesting, it's interesting that you've jumped into this conversation and immediately gone for the assumption that we're going to be making friends with other parents.

Well, I think this is a struggle, because you don't meet people who don't have kids. I know, yeah, you don't generally Bump into them as much. And also, like, not to be mean, I'm sorry people out there, but,  like, if you're listening, if you've known us in the past, but we've kind of shed a lot of our old friends who don't have kids because it's quite difficult to, you know, Keep up and to relate and to have shared experience.

And they have to be very forgiving of you. Like they have to be people, so like People who can be flexible and work around us. Yeah. Which is quite, uh, you know, all the time. Yeah, yeah. To be working around us is, you know And all the time to be like, people who go, Well, I can't meet up with you this weekend. 

If I can meet up with you. Because I think,  I know people who have kids, They still are busy, but they have more time in general, they don't have clubs, they take kids to, they don't have a lot of, you know, Yeah, we're making a lot of, what's the word? Assumptions. Stereotypes, maybe? I don't know.  But, I think, I'm trying to think of people we know, but generally,  They, they have the ability to be a bit more spontaneous.

Um, and so when we're like, well, do you want to put a date in the diary for six months time? Yeah. It's like, uh, what?  But I would say, because we've got, um,  my best friend who, uh,  Rachie, or Rachel, she's Lily's godmother. And they don't have children. Um, but they're very good, because A, they're very good with children.

Yeah.  And B, they're very good with us in that they're very flexible and know we have to make dates ridiculously, like, far along. I would say, in those circumstances, you know, They are friends we've kept on from, like, university days and things like that. I would say we haven't made any new friends. Not falling into the category of new friends we've made.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. And therefore we have a kind of commitment to each other that we're able to support each other through life. Um, but it is tricky because often, you know, I feel a bit guilty. We often ask them to come to us. And we often go, Oh, by the way, we're going to be eating at 1130. Yeah.

Um, hope that's okay. We might not be able to survive the whole day because we might get tired. We might suddenly have to go home. So it's basically like two hours in the day and you're gonna have to see us. Yeah.  It's, it's tricky. Yeah. So they're very good, but I feel like this is one of the reasons we don't make many.

Well, I think I just don't encounter them. Like, unless I were to encounter. Some people through work, um, which I work remotely, so it doesn't happen really. Well, I do too, and even my colleagues, you know.  I think this is maybe quite common with millennials, but I don't have that many people that work with me that are of a similar age and stage or, you know, thing in life. 

We've, there's some people through my work we've met and, you know, have kids and we're good friends with a lot of people and there's other, you know, there's quite a range of people at my work that we get on well with, but Well, even in my work, the only other person So, look, my boss, um, started later in life and now has, like, a baby.

Yeah. Um, and she's planning on having another one. Which gives us more, um, connection. And there's one other woman, um, who has two children, but they're obviously, like, Okay. I think 10 and 8, like quite a bit older. But we only meet up like once a year. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like a Even though you message, it's not that same connection all the time and everybody else at my work, um, like single men in their like forties, fifties, so You do work in the video game industry, so it's not particularly surprising that there are loads of women.

So there's like us three women who do have children and the rest of them don't. Yeah, yeah. So it does narrow down  Like how much in common you have with other people Yeah, we do a lot of our stuff online and actually a lot of our friendships are based online Yeah, you know as you were saying, you know, you chat and message with other mums But it's ages normally till you get a playdate and  I mean basically Nearly everyone who listens to this podcast, uh, are people that we have connections with in one way or another and we often try and meet up with you guys out there.

And probably every time I see you, I go, hey, we'll have a play date sometime. Yeah, yeah.  And then I, and then I never do anything about it. Um. I'm, I'm just thinking through some of our regular listeners and thinking nearly, nearly all of them basically, We could, we've gone like, it's been ages since we've met up, we should really organise another playdate.

To turn into an apology podcast. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry.  I've never been out with people.  I currently have a good excuse. Yeah. I'm pretty heavily pregnant. Yeah. And I just don't have the energy. Yeah. To do anything, let's face it. Yeah. And then we'll have a new baby, it'll be hard, again, to do that.  Um, so friend, friend making is on pause. 

Because the main friend maker is in there. Oh yeah, that's true. I'm still available. You're still available. I didn't really think about that. I was going to discuss in this though, Elliot's age. Oh, okay. Because  So, the area that we live in at the minute, most people start a bit later, and I know this is a growing trend amongst most western countries. 

Um. Having your first child when you're slightly older. Yeah, so most people around here seem to have their first child when they're like 32, 33. Yeah. Um, some are a bit older. Yeah. Because I'm still considered, I'm 31, having our second one, and I'm still considered quite young. Yeah, it's weird that there's a little kind of pocket and ecosystem around Harrogate.

Yeah. The typical average age of First time motherhood is slightly older slightly older, um, which is fascinating I do wonder because it's more affluent area maybe to afford having children. You have to quite possible Yeah, but even in general across the uk and across the west He is getting older. Yeah  The average age is shifting up.

Let's think so. We got married when I was 25 Yeah And therefore we had Lily when I was 26? Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. I don't know, pfft, maths. No, I, uh, no, so, because My birthday's early in the year. I would have been 29 when I had Lily. Oh, because it would have ticked across. Your birthday was after Lily was born.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. But it meant people were only like three, four years older than me. Whereas with Elliot A lot of the dads around here are like 10 years older than me. I did, I tried to explain this a little, I, I, in one, a previous episode, a few episodes ago, I put in a thing at the beginning where we said about age, but because it was a bit rambly, a bit of it out, and therefore it kind of just came across that I was like showing off how young I was, and that wasn't my intention like, oh, I was really old. 

My intention was trying to describe this exact thing, where I was like, I feel a bit disconnected. Yeah, but I think this does sometimes impede you from making as many friendships, because you feel like you're, you know, We're at similar stages in that we have kids, but he's just grown up in a different kind of environment almost.

I'm almost the youngest millennial that you can be. Yes. And a lot of dads are almost at the very other end of the millennial spectrum and are kind of go, you know,  early 40s now. Yes, yeah. Um, and so the age gap means, you know, my childhood and everything is just kind of, You know, 10 years different is quite a big gap.

And it's not that that stops you making friends, but I think sometimes  it's hard for you to like find common interests. I also get a bit intimidated to be honest because you know a lot of these dads if they're in their 40s They're kind of, they've progressed more with work. Yeah. You know, they've established themselves, you know.

I feel a bit embarrassed sometimes that, you know, like we're still renting and that we haven't bought a house because naturally these, these people have some, have had time to kind of get, you know. Yeah, yeah. We're not at the same phase. We're not, you know, I shouldn't feel bad because I haven't got there yet.

But to me, I compare, it's kind of natural, we have kids the same age. Whereas I think, I don't know if I just don't feel like that or if women, we just don't, you don't see yourselves in such terms necessarily. Maybe, maybe. Also I'm just very friendly so nothing puts me off really. True, true. I also get a bit self conscious so I'm always a little self conscious that I look a lot younger than the other dads.

Yeah, that's true. And I feel a bit, I've kind of, think about that.  I find funny because I, I'd be interesting to know. I suspect. They're actually on the flip side of this coin, a lot of those dads are looking at me thinking how good it is that I'm young, like that they're wanting to be younger maybe, I don't know, whereas I'm looking at them going like, oh I feel bad I'm so young.

Yeah, yeah. But I think that often like, puts you in a position where you're not, you know,  It's like comfortable making friends. Maybe. That's a, it's a good excuse. It's a good excuse. I would say I'm a pretty shy and quiet person anyway. Yes, that's true. I'm not sure if the age thing is really that much of a hindrance  because I'm just a typical man that's not great at conversation.

Yeah, that's true. Just, I'll stand around and  be a bit awkward. Yeah.  That, that sums up Elliot quite well. Yeah. He'll stand around and be awkward. Just a little awkward guy over here. But you're good if people talk to you, you'll talk to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm not like,  it's a difficult, I'm not shy.

Like I'm just an introvert. So I'm quite happy talking, like I'm happy talking on the podcast. I'm happy, I, you know, I do all sorts of stuff where I have to talk and do public speaking. And, you know, that's not a big problem, but, um, I'm not great at initiating conversation. And I don't. I don't seek it out. 

Um, I'm quite happy with my own company. Yeah, whereas I definitely, although I call myself an ambivert, which is a bit of both.  I don't like talking to a lot of people, but I really do like talking to people one on one. And you're, you're good at, you know, talking. Like, you're good at chit chat. Yeah, yeah. I'm good at chit chat.

I'm good at asking questions. Um, yeah. And you're very friendly, and you kind of draw a lot of mums to you.  I think because a lot of people,  especially if you go to like a new club or something, it's quite intimidating. And I'm happy to, Talk to anybody like I have no qualms about just being like, hey, how are you doing?

How was your little one and you know, yeah. Yeah, you soon find a lot of similar ground you can talk on. Yeah. So  I would say it's, it's not wonderful at making friends, but I don't struggle. It's, I struggle to keep up with friendships. I'm quite good when I see people and chatting away to them. It doesn't bother you too much.

Like if we're out in the park and there's another mum there and you'll just naturally start chatting. Yeah. So if both our kids on the swings, I'm like, Oh yeah, we'll start chatting. Yeah. And then I think you're quite good as well at then. Almost following that up as well and being like, ah, you know, where are you?

What's your name? Like, shall we exchange details? Shall we make a play date? Normally I do, um, Facebook because I find most millennials still have Facebook. And I find it's a way that it's not like. Too personal, I couldn't have your number. It's like, should we add each other on Facebook, and at some point we'll make a playdate.

Um, which now means I have a lot of friends on Facebook where I've never got around to making a playdate.  But we still like each other's posts, and so I've put nice little comments. But we haven't ever made it to that other step of having a playdate. 

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I wonder what you think about this. One of the things that I think is Uh, often enables mums to make friends is kind of maternity leave because they have that time to go out with their baby and go to mums and tots groups. And often times I think the main aim of a lot of that is actually for the mums not to feel isolated and to get friends.

Yeah, because I think it can be very isolating when you are on maternity leave and you're kind of at home with your baby all day. Um, it's a real thing. released to go to a club.  Well, I think there's two things there. Um, one, both of which we've mentioned before, but one is that you didn't have a long maternity leave.

No.  And so we're back to work quite quickly. And yeah, you, you, we, we didn't have the flexibility to go to a lot of these groups.  Um, and the other one being that obviously everyone hopefully knows that you're an identical quadruplet and you have a big family and you're very close with your family. Yeah.

And so you don't have, you know, when you're at home on maternity, you know, Becky's at home on maternity right now. Yeah. Um, but you all talk to each other every day, constantly in contact. And so I don't think you're quite as lonely and isolated. As a lot of mums can be. No, I think that's true. You have a lot of support.

Yeah. So your problem is you have a lot of acquaintances and people. Yeah. But it's how to turn them into proper friendships. Mm, and to, like, and I always feel like I'm doing them a disservice. Yeah. Like, because I feel like I haven't made time in my life for them. But they'll be feeling that as well, so there's no reason to feel guilty.

I think this is, once again, my point about why I like making friends with the parents. Yeah, yeah, we understand each other. Because we all understand we have no time. Yeah. Like, um, Lily's got a little best friend. Um, I won't say a name on this podcast, but, uh, we go to ballet together. Yeah. And so it's nice me and the other mum get to chit chat away while we're in ballet.

Yeah, yeah. So we've got to know each other quite well, but we still don't know how many playdates that we're so busy. Yeah, yeah. And it's one of those things where I'm like, I really should make more of an effort with that. But it just, it just often doesn't happen. Okay, so the other thing is, we did actually do one playdate with them.

We did. We first, uh, got to know them. Um, and I think this is true. Well, I've done another playdate with them actually. Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was thinking like all together with, you know. Yeah, yeah, the two dads. The two dads were there as well. Um.  And I think this is the same in a lot of the playdates I've been to with you, that often the challenge of a playdate is that you still have a kid with you. 

So, and it might feel like, oh, well, there's another child here now, surely they'll go off and play by themselves. That doesn't really happen. Um, I mean, uh, in the earlier days when Lily was younger, we'd often go round to people's houses and so they could just sit and play on the floor. That was a bit easier.

These days we tend to go out somewhere to like a park or to a, uh, soft play. Just to get some energy released. But in those settings, uh, well in all the settings, you're still kind of needed as a parent to look after them. And so either it means  if you go by yourself, you're kind of both occupied with the kids, um, or you know, if they're running off to different things in the park, you're then separated.

Or if we all go as a family unit, um, which is often quite hard to arrange because it means we all have to be off work or you have to, you know, find a free weekend or whatever.  But then, I often find it's us, like, two dads that have run off to look after the kids and so you and the other mum get to sit and have a nice little chat and I come home and think, I haven't actually spoken to them at all because I've been running around after the kid and like, I don't mind because if one of us is going to talk to someone, it might as well be you.

He's going to act like this is just so, I think half the reason he runs off to look after Lily is because he's like, I don't want to be left to talk. Yeah.  I wouldn't mind so much. Bizarrely, I do tend to, I think, uh, Get on better at chatting with other mums you do maybe because they're then like you in the relationship and they can chat to me And I engage with the conversation.

I think that's true because I remember I'm So our local church runs like a dad's club very sporadically. Yeah. Yeah Um, but I remember the one time I came out to help, literally none of the dads talked to each other, but all of them talked to me.  And I remember sitting there like, so I was trying to almost make them talk to each other being like, Oh, so your kid's this age and how old's your kid like?

And I found it so funny that they were all perfectly happy to make conversation with me, but they really struggled to make conversation with each other. Yeah. And I was like, is that because  I seem like, yeah, I was like, Oh, do I seem like quite approachable or is it because I'm already engaged in ask questions that they feel like then they can answer?

Yeah. Yeah.  But it did amuse me because I wanted to be like, you know, you should really be talking to each other and talking about like different experiences of fatherhood, but you're all sitting and talking to me which is really how this is meant to go. And yeah, at the same time, I think a lot of us men, we, we are kind of quite lonely and a lot of us don't have family.

Like close friendships. I think it's true. And we kind of really need that. We're just, we're not great at doing it. We're not great about, we're not great at talking, are we? You know what also men aren't great at? Once again, I'm so sorry it's a stereotype, but it's true. Arranging stuff. Uh, yeah. So like if there's any social  Basically meeting it will go through both moms.

Yeah, the dads will not be involved At all, and I mean i'm quite an involved dad. We've often mentioned before we try and split things 50 50 Um, I try and defend myself as much as possible as being quite a good husband. But yeah, this is an example where I do fall into the very stereotypical  manner. And I'm, I'm sorry, like, you know, if you don't fall into that mould, because, you know, not everyone does and we can't make assumptions about everyone, but it does tend to be the trend.

Yeah. That holds true mostly.  Yeah. Um. I would say most of the mums I meet. Yeah. We are all social instigators. Yeah. Um. But it does bring up an interesting challenge, um, for both of us really because a lot of that conversation in groups, so you've got a group of mums or a group of dads and you're trying to make friends.

Yeah. Like.  Often, the conversation, if it's not about your child and how your parenting's going, um, it falls to like, the mums having a moan about their husbands. Yeah, true. Yeah. Um, and stuff like that, which can be tricky to navigate because I am very involved. Yeah. And often, I feel like saying to a lot of mums, like, well, why are you letting them not do that?

Not that I'm saying, like,  I tell Elliot what to do, but I'm saying, a lot of them go, well, I'm with the kids all day, and then I get home and I have to cook, and then I have to clean. And I often think,  but why haven't you said to your husband, like, That's not on, like, I think it's hard, because I think some people, you kind of, before kids, that was the way the relationship worked, and then when they had kids, just, nobody's ever had the conversation that it would, should change.

Or maternity leave, and like, you know, if, um, the mum has a bit more time and has done some, you know, more of the household tasks, um, and then again you have to recalibrate once you're both back at work. Yeah. Um.  But yeah, like in our house, it's less so that you will like tell me, it's more that just stuff won't happen.

Oh yeah, yeah, I just wouldn't do it. You know, like washing, you know, we just wouldn't have any clean clothes if I didn't do the washing. It's not that Emma would go, you need to do the washing now. It's just, I'll get to a point where I'm like, well, There's no clean clothes in the house.  Emma's not gonna do it.

I better, I better put some washing on and sort it out.  Like I'm not, she's not gonna do that.  But we've gone off the paracoptic for making friends really. Oh, yes, but it's like, it's the conversations you have, isn't it? I suppose because we, you, we have less of that relatable experience. But I do sometimes think that's because we are slightly younger in our friendship groups.

Oh, maybe. Maybe. Um, so I wondered if there was other people our age, maybe it 50. Ah. Um, cause I know like we're quite privileged, we both work from home, so it's easy to 50 50. But I do think younger people have more of an idea of, you know,  The man has to be a very active participant. I know, because I know they say Millennials, Millennial fathers are much more active.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's the same for like, younger Millennials. They're probably more active still. Yeah. I would talk about the challenges of topics we talk about with dads, but I don't really talk to dads, so I can't really tell you. He's like, I don't know. I think the trouble is, you know, conversation often turns to things like sport, or  I don't know.

I don't know what stuff men talk about and I'm just, I'm not, I'm not a very masculine man. No, my dad used to struggle with this. Um, I'm not into sport. Because I remember mum used to do that thing where you have like a play date and then the men end up sitting in the kitchen. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like by themselves. 

And dad said like,  Because obviously he was a farmer, he had no interest, not that farmers don't, but his life was farming. Yeah. He had no interest in football. Yeah. He didn't really like drinking. Yeah. Um,  and he used to be like,  once those conversations came up, he was like, I've no I've nothing to contribute.

Nothing to contribute. I don't, I can't even say who's playing. I don't even know who's in the England team. Like I have no,  can't even talk about going to the pub. I don't go to the pub. I don't drink. I don't have any of those conversations. Cultural things these other people have.  It's kind of understandable, isn't it?

You know, his work was his life. It's a very intensive kind of thing. Um, and of course that meant a lot of his friends were farmers. Yeah, but it also meant they're so busy. Like, they only see each other once.  That's why the mark's the main social event.  It's quite similar to parenting, isn't it? It's quite similar to parenting, yeah.

There you go. But I used to remember afterwards, I'd be like, Oh, did your eyes chat? And Dad would be like, Well, no. Yeah. Like, what was I gonna talk about? This is where I get on quite well with your Dad, though. It is, yeah. Because we can sit and chat just about mundane things. Yeah, yeah. And like, neither of us are that bothered about typical, you know, And like, Dad's really good at talking about, Not in like a bad way, but like politics or like other interesting conversations.

Current affairs, what's going on in the world. We love chitting about that. That never came up amongst the other people. So he'd be kind of sat there like, well, this is just a bit boring. And I really try, because I often worry, You know, I'm quite involved and I work for the church and I don't want that to be my whole life and that I, you know, have no interest outside of that because then, you know, how, how do you, how do you relate to people?

But I think it's true having, which I know is hard, I know people are going to go, but how am I going to do that? Having hobbies for yourself does help make other friendships. Yeah. So like, some of the only friendships I've had outside of, you know, Parents is when I went to my fitness class. Yeah. And once again, most of them are parents, but some of them weren't.

Yeah. Like, and that's how you meet, like, a different group of people almost. Yeah, yeah. And it's quite refreshing. My problem is that most of my interests, and it's true, I've not kept a lot of them up. You know, I used to be very into photography. Yeah. And I do a lot less of that now because of time and things.

But so many of my hobbies  are like Are like one people. They're typical man hobbies where they're ones you do alone. You don't do it in groups, you don't need to talk to people about it, you don't need, you know, I'm quite into a lot of technology stuff, um, that you kind of do by yourself, or, you know, just, yeah, or, you know, a lot of other Yeah.

Yeah. Other geeky men and dads who would also be into those things. None of us are very good at socializing or conversing.  That's true.  Yeah, that's a good point. I was gonna say, because you do have hobbies, but A, you don't do them that often, but B, they're not ones where you'd meet people particularly. Or I'm into things that I think typically I can chat better to with like, women.

So like, I love Disney films, and I love chatting about all sorts of things like that, and Yeah, that's true. Um, I don't know, what, uh, what else am I into? This is probably the problem, isn't it? But you know, at university, I, um, I eventually got into doing some ballroom dancing. You did? Um, yeah. So like we would say Elliot's a very good ballroom dancer.

I'm not so good.  . Yeah, I got better 'cause I did lessons with you, but I would say you were more of the natural dancer. Um, I don't, I don't think. natural and dancer are ever two words that should go together describing me, but I've at least with ballroom dancing There's like steps and stuff and you could learn the steps and I could I could do that That's probably what I struggle.

I don't have any natural rhythm or anything. Yes. Yeah  But again, not a typical hobby that like men really have or I don't know, like, I enjoy trying new things, I think that's my problem. I'm not really into anything in great depth. But I love to like, explore. New hobbies and like try stuff out. Yeah,  what I really want to try out.

This is a complete tangent is axe throwing. Ooh See, I feel like yeah, you'd be into that and I would hate it It sounds fun, but I'd enjoyed being there watching you doing it and like taking a video of you doing it. Yes, that's true.  Elliot would be like, I don't want to throw an axe. Um, cuz I've seen people do it on like couples night in Leeds.

Oh, yeah Like axe throwing. Yeah, yeah.  Why should I keep doing that? That'd be fun. I mean, how, does, we, we, can we take another couple with us? Like, we're trying to make friends. This is the point. No, that's what I was thinking. It could be a social event. Okay, okay. But, um, if you don't like Huxley, it might not work.

It's reminding me though, here's, here's the other problem, uh, challenge, is I feel like a lot of our socialising before used to be evenings. Yes. So like, going out, going out to the pub with friends, you know, you'd do stuff on an evening, I don't know. You'd go to the cinema. You'd, you know, meet up and go out and do something.

Go bowling, I don't know. Whatever you, whatever you do, the stuff you do. But these days, Or even go out for a meal with other people. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's a big one, isn't it? Um, yeah, we, like, how, how would we do? We, I suppose we'd have to get a babysitter. Or a grandparent to come over. Yeah, but even that's kind of a challenge.

And Yeah. Until they're a bit older, it's not always, it's not really feasible, especially when you've got really little ones. Well, this is a problem. I think Lily's a good age now. She's actually, we know she can stay over at like, um, my sister's. Yeah. Um, and she stayed over at the grandparents before and she's been fine.

So, like, I mean, it's rarely, but it's happened and she's been fine. So,  It gives me quite a lot of confidence with her she'd be okay,  but obviously we're going to be starting again.  And it's taken us how many years for us to be confident that Lily's okay? Three years.  To say Lily's confident to stay by herself somewhere.

I think part of that problem is though, we've moved around and so we, you know, we don't live where we used to live. No.  Like, we can make new friends here, but all our other friends are spread all the way across the UK in all sorts of places. And so it means we all have to travel to go see each other. And then you're like, well, might as well make a weekend of it.

Yeah, like it's an added complication and a, you know, a difficulty and a challenge. Um, and I don't, I don't know. I, I think. Most people kind of move about these days, but if you are still based in the same place you grew up, maybe it's a bit easier because you kind of, you know people, you still have your friends there from before, I don't know.

Whereas now we have to make new friends and you know, we're, we're thinking, you know, we will likely move again. Uh, and then it will be, how do we keep up friendships from here? And then how do we make new friends? And I think that moving around business is, is something we've, you know, we've not really factored into this.

Right, well, uh, it's been a big old moan, this episode. I don't know if it's given any good advice. Yeah, I was gonna say, what, what are your top tips, Emma?  You're, you're the expert. I shouldn't give tips, Rick. I like, just do the opposite of what I do. But what, what do you reckon? What's One, but it's a hard one, is  don't be scared of basically making a fool of yourself and asking a stupid question.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is one I need to take to heart, you know, like when you're in the park and there's another dad there, I just need to be brave and go up and like just try and start a conversation. Because honestly, you can say anything, like, Especially because kids do funny things all the time.

You like, what's she like? And, we live in the North, people are friendly. My second thing would be like, find common ground. It's quite easy, often, you see, like, for me, I already know they have a child. I can often go, oh, so what nursery do they go to? Like, we go to this nursery, we found it really good. Like, you can end up having quite a lot of, easy conversations that you don't have to think too much about.

I think my third thing would just be like, most of us are actually really dying to make friends and have conversations. So it's very rarely, I know some people have had bad experiences, but it's been so rare that anyone hasn't been really nice and talked back to me, or hasn't really like got into a conversation afterwards.

So I think you have to remember most people are feeling how you feel. So if you feel like, Yes. Oh, I'm kind of nervous. And I really want to make friends of mine. They probably do too. Like, especially like, baby classes, because most people are new parents. Yeah. It's a big experience. Yeah. I think all our stuff really helps.

Um, and don't feel guilty like me, like I feel guilty, that you don't keep up with all these people. Because I'm sure they're feeling the same way. Yeah, yeah. Because they also have very busy lives. Great, great. Love that. I've got two tips. Oh. One is, uh, utilize. online because it is it is tricky finding time to meet up in person so the more we can do to kind of get to know people you know on messenger on instagram or you know however you do it.

My second top tip  Find yourself an Emma  who will make friends for you. 

So chatty co host, I need to wrap this up and stop you from nattering on. How, how would you rate this topic? I'm bringing back this little segment. We've not had it for a few episodes. About how we've covered it. Not how, not our discussion of it is the topic. I'd say our discussion's been all over the place. 

What else can you expect?  I would say, I haven't given you your categories yet. I haven't thought of the categories yet, so this might be, it's on the fly. Um, here we go. So the bottom category is awkward dad. The next category is, um, social anxiety. The next category is chatty mum. And the next category is, uh,  no, some, some, something, something good.

Okay, it's something good.  I do quite well at the minute, but I think once we have the new baby it's going to go down about how social I am.  I think, I'm not going to be like, I still talk, I'm not going to be like a dad, because even in hospital I chat away to the other people with me. What was the middle one?

I don't know, I can't remember. So I feel like there's in between anxiety and chatty mum.  They'll be like a little thing and that's, that's where I'm gonna be at. Cool. Good, good rating.  Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but that's, you know. It confuses me so much when you bring it up because I'm always like, I don't know what this means.

That's what you expect from a segment that I've made up entirely. It's true. That doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever.  Right, so messages from listeners. One of the days I shared a thing on Instagram stories about my face covered in stickers that I'd forgotten about, um, that Lily had put on there. And, uh, we had a few replies to that saying that's a very common thing in their house as well, getting covered in stickers.

Um, and then one where I was asking whether people, you know, what tantrums and meltdowns, uh, their toddlers or, you know, children had had recently. Um, we shared a.  Parenting achievement at the beginning of this episode are on exactly that topic. One of the replies into that was about, um, being dropped off at nursery and you have a meltdown about being at the drop off.

Um, I think that's a very relatable experience. That's just a few for this week. Well, we hope you've enjoyed our Chit chat. I'm basically just saying how difficult it is to make friends unless you're mildly sociable. Yep. Thank you for joining us in the treehouse  hideaway today, escaping from the world.

Like a treehouse hideaway. You can climb back down the tree now, get back to your life. Yeah, don't push anyone off the tree though, that's dangerous. Why would you suggest that? That's such a weird thing to do. But it's closed now, it's gone. This is the end. This is good, goodbye. This has been Don't Wake The Baby. 

Don't wake the baby.  God bless, sleep well. Good night. Goodbye.