Identity Shift | Parents discuss rediscovering yourself after having children

Is being a mum or a dad your only identity? Exploring how we change as people in parenthood. This is the one where Emma and Elliot chat about past hobbies, things we've lost along the way, adapting to struggles & the relentless busy stress of life, finding time for ourselves, taking up new hobbies, accepting things are different, and the spirituality of parenting. Some deep honesty and fun stories... discussing the positives and negatives. Particularly referencing our recent holidays: a week in the South of France with Emma's sisters, and a weekend in a cabin by a lake in the UK for Elliot's 30th birthday (pictures on our Instagram!)

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Find resources, info, links and more on our website:
www.kairosmovement.org.uk/dontwakethebaby/

For Elliot's creative faith projects, such as Disney Church, see here: www.kairosmovement.org.uk/digital-revolution/

Unwind on sleepless nights to a wholesome mix of parenting stories, quirky humour, and cosy crafting. We’re not here to provide answers but to share our experiences, explore how parenting has changed, and build an online community of parents for mutual support.

A fun, honest and unscripted conversation between Emma and Elliot on non-judgemental parenting and millennial-based topics, as we relax on an evening attempting an artistic or creative activity. 

We are a project in partnership with The Kairos Movement and supported by The Methodist Church, of which The Kairos Movement is a part

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:10 Parenting Achievements
• 7:15 Losing your identity
• 19:45 Finding yourself
• 27:00 Spirituality in Parenting
• 34:25 Comments from listeners

Transcript

 So Emma, what are we talking about today? Rediscovering yourself in parenthood.

This episode is called Identity Shift.

Welcome back. Join us the crippin in the cozy cabin corner of the internet and accompany us on the early morning lake of conversation about babies, toddlers, and under fives. Oh, I like it. The fire pit is crackling with quirky humor and gooey marshmallows at the ready. I'm leaning into this metaphor. I like it.

Uh, this is our little parenting podcast. If you don't know, um, or as I like to call it for short, the, the PP. Peepee Peepee. It's a peepee. That's lovely. Do you like my childish humor? Uh, thank goodness we don't have boys. 'cause you'd be a terrible influence on them. Uh oh yeah. We should mention we have two girls, uh, Lily, who is four, and Lola, who is what, eight months?

Eight months. Lily? Yeah. And we are, who are we? I'm Elliot. I am, um, let's have a look. He's gonna do his strange fact for you soon. Gonna be 30. I'm the one that can't sing. Oh, I remember. I mean, I can sing a bit. Yeah, well, certainly better than Me. True. I walk around the house trying to sing songs to Lola going, ah, and it sounds, it's true.

Often hums something and I go, I have no idea what that song is. And it goes, we've just been singing it. And I was like, have we? That's not at all the song I thought we were singing. Not one of my gifts. I do, I say something I'm not good at. If you want, well, you've said something you are not good at. True.

Uh, I'm not good at a lot of things. Um, well, you don't have to list them all. Where, where do I stop? Directions. Well, I am good at getting lost.

Parenting achievement time. Parenting. Achievement time. I feel like it's, it's changed a lot. Hasn't this section? Yeah. Yeah. We, we used to be like b now, now it's like I've made my own tune. Parenting achievement time. Yeah. Every time we do it, we forget what we did last time and then it's just sort of, we morphed anyway.

This is a segment at the beginning of the show where we share a parenting fail story. Uh, what have you unlocked Parenting achievement. That's a relatable moment, um, that people might, you know. Yeah. Have a good laugh at very recently, this will come up in the episode, but we have been away over the weekend and I almost got in very deep trouble 'cause I didn't pack or I did, I did pack but almost didn't pack enough formula.

Yeah. Milk powder. And this is is the second time. I have said before we left, oh, I think we should put another tin in and he's gone. Don't be silly. I put a whole tin in. It happened the first, I'm the first holiday. We went in about two, three weeks ago. See, I'm in trouble. We ran out of formula and I told him, I think we're gonna need to bring more.

I thought two and a half tins were beat off. I'm like, Bev, this time Roddy went up. I've packed a tin. It's a new tin. I went, I think we're gonna need another one. And he was like, nah, we're only gonna need one. And I dunno why I have my own like. Volition. I could have just gone and grabbed a tin and chucked it in.

But both times I've chosen to listen to you and both times. But what do you know? It was perfect this time. We came home with just a few scoops to spare a skin of your tea. If she'd wanted any more drink at any point we'd have been screwed.

You can be like, I planned it perfectly. I was like, it's dumb. Luck is what? That is. Very intentional. Don't like to take anything we don't need. Another parenting fail on my part, um, fairly recently is I've kind of scuppered myself, shot myself in the foot. I've created this character with Lily that has come back to haunt me.

So like I've been doing more stuff with Lily. Because you've been doing a lot with the baby. Yeah. And like we play a lot of games and. One of the games I was playing was like pretending to be, you know, like Daddy Robot in Bluey. Yeah. And I was pretending to be a robot going beep boop boop. And I'd do silly things and pretend to not understand the world.

So like a little bit like born yesterday crossword daddy robot. Yeah. And um, since then, Lily has really taken to this character, which he calls Oblong. Yes. Oblong. Because she think the noises I made, she thinks the noise is making like oblong. And so like at any given moment she's like, can we play oblong?

You are oblong now daddy. And so like, we could be anywhere. And she suddenly wants me to be like this silly robot that doesn't understand what I'm doing. Yeah. Oh dear. Like why did I start this game? Why did I ever tell her talk about it as well? Like just to other people like, and they didn't know what Oblong is.

And she was like, I would like Daddy to be oblong when we get home. And I'm like, okay. And then people look at me and like, I have to explain like, oh, it's this crazy character regretting that big time. But anyway. Um, is there any, any ones you wanna share? I have got some more, but you know, well, I've got a recent one of mine.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I packed all the clothes for the kids to go away this weekend. Mm-hmm. Um, and I only packed one pair of socks for the baby. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, this sounds very like, like you and I think in my head I was like, I'll chuck some more in like before we go, didn't this happen somewhere else? We went as well somewhere else we went and I was like.

Have we packed any of the Oxford, anyone? And you're like, come on. No, maybe. Maybe that was It wasn't the other holiday. No, but it was somewhere else we went. I felt Lola's not big enough. It couldn't have been Lola. I think maybe it's Scar must have been Lily. 'cause Lola's, we've not been in enough places with Lola, I think for it to have happened again.

Yeah. Yeah. Dunno. Maybe Lily, just the rings a bell of this happening before. Well, I feel like, you know, I feel like pants are important. I remember pants, socks seem to get away from me. Not too bad with two now though, because um, yeah, Lola just wore, wore some socks of slightly socks. They were a bit big, but they fit.

Now Lily won't take those socks off because she's like, oh, they're the baby socks and that makes them special. So she's gone like preschool with the baby. They're not, they're her own socks, but because Lola's worn them. Lily thinks they're the baby socks and now they're inherently special. Oh, dear, dear.

Oh dear. Um, the other silly story I thought I'd share parenting Fail achievement. You take it how you like, um, was I thought I'd share about the peanut butter song. Oh, yes. Um, another silly thing, I invented that again, I like beginning to regret. 'cause it comes up fairly regularly that me and Lily created this peanut butter song.

I mean, I dunno if you can count it as a song really. It's more like a chant. Yes. It's, it's like we march round the kitchen to it. Yeah. Shouting it to the top of our lungs. We go peanut, peanut

butter. But Lily's hilarious. She goes. Peanut Peanut. Peanut peanut butter. Peanut butter peanut. It's very adorable. It's cute. It's very cute, but it always makes me laugh 'cause I'm like, you know, you're not singing the same thing like that. Two different, slightly different.

Well chase after that crawling baby and try and stop themselves killing themselves at every opportunity. And let's jump into some chitchat today. All around, um, rediscovering who we are after having kids, you know, uh, having time for yourself. The sort of, uh, I dunno, like deep sense of who we are, whether you lose some of that.

How do you find it again, the spirituality of that, all those sorts of things. Uh, you actually came to me with this idea. Emma, did you have any, what, what, what particularly made you think of wanting to talk about this on the podcast? Well, I was thinking about topics we hadn't covered. And I think because I'm getting to like the postpartum period where you're finally starting to feel like a normal human being again.

Mm. I was like, it's interesting how like becoming a parent, in inevitably there's a lot of loss of identity, but you also kind of take on almost a new identity. Mm. Like a new mantle. Yeah. So instead of being like just, I don't know you, you're also like, oh, I'm now Lily's mum as often people know me. Yeah.

Yeah. And like. Now I'm l mum. It's just like a, a redefining of who you are really. Mm-hmm. So I think it's quite interesting 'cause I think people don't appreciate, sorry, I'm just saving our child from killing herself. Um, like there's like a lot of inevitable loss Yeah. Of identity. But it's not like it is.

Hard, but it's not necessarily negative. Like there is some games you get. Yeah. It just takes a while to kind of get into that new kind of, I think this fits really well 'cause uh, this has come into focus for me recently as well after, you know, the last six months have been particularly challenging, I found with having two kids and with Lola being so young.

And then recently we've had two holidays, uh, one, uh, a broad family week away and one. This past weekend, we've celebrated my early 30th birthday with a, a stay in a cabin by a lake and done all sorts of fun outdoor activities. And just the whole sense of that has been really interesting to think about, you know, like how things look different with kids and how it all feels.

And then, you know, it's, it's doing things again, like doing things. We enjoy doing things with family and. Like reconnecting with some of that and working out, what does that all look like now on the other side? And it's also a good way, it means we can talk a little bit about some of our holidays could interject some of that, some of those conversations in here, which is, I wanted to find a way to do that.

And also I, you know, as through some of my work and the stuff I do, I'd really fascinated to talk about what does like spirituality and parenting look like. And I think that plays a little bit into this conversation. So we might touch on that later. I think we personally talk about like how it's, it's fine for people to feel.

Lost at first. Like, 'cause you do, you change, like especially with women, your look changes. Yeah. Like your hormones are all over, but also like you no, you no longer have time for, let's be honest, any, any of the hobbies you probably did beforehand. Especially the early stages. Um, so I think you can often feel like you are put into a box of, well now I'm just a mom.

Mm-hmm. And moms don't get to do these things. Yeah. And I feel like that can be quite confining sometimes. I. Um, yeah, and I think, I don't know, I don't know if we, did we struggle with that as like first time round? Did, how did it feel having our first child? I think did, did you have a sense of that? A little bit.

I think it's more, I remember somebody once asked me, what do you do for fun? And I remember thinking that, I have no idea. Like, yeah, I really, I don't know. 'cause at the time, like Lily was still very little and I remember thinking, well, mm. I don't really have a hobby. Mm. Like my hobby's probably sitting on a night watching some mindless tv.

Mm. Like I don't really do anything. Whereas I kept thinking, well before I used to paint and I used to do lots of things. Yeah. Um, I think we did, we did adjust well in some ways because we always anticipated being parents. We were quite geared to the, like, family life. We are, you know, it wasn't a massive change for us in some ways because a lot of the things we like doing.

We still did with kids. Yeah, true. And like all that sort of thing. Um, I think for me, second time round has actually been harder, that transition. I feel like the survival phase has been more challenging and I felt a bit lost in it all. And I think interestingly, I think I've coached better the second time round.

Mm. Interesting. Uh, but I, than that's 'cause I felt like I knew what to expect and I've already kind of taken on the title of mum, so it's not as much of an adjustment. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't sure if I was gonna like, ever talk about it much on the podcast 'cause I didn't, you know, we like to keep things like hearted and, yeah, and like fun as well as talking about serious topics.

And it didn't, I wasn't sure if it fit, but while we're in this beginning phase where we're talking about the challenges, um, you know, like our first holiday, like the, the previous one where we went abroad, like as much as it being really. Like in the south of France there were like all the cousins like were together and having lots of fun and all sorts of things.

I now, I put a post on social media afterwards 'cause I actually really struggled with it. Um, just, I dunno, again, maybe like that expectation, I was hoping of like a time to reset and like, because it had been so challenging recently and stressful and there's so much going on in life. But because we have kids, because it was a kid holiday.

Yeah. There, there was no still no respite. And so like, Lola was ill on holiday and like. We didn't spend much time together. You have to like tag team it. A lot of the time we were back at the villa like trying to get Lola to drink and sleep and like even in the moments where things were joyous, I found myself not being able to like relax.

Yeah. To fully enjoy it. Yeah. Or disconnect my brain from work and like just. That like gave me a sudden panic that like, I can't do this anymore. Like, you know, I'd always felt like I'd cope very well with fatherhood and like can keep calm and like I didn't lose myself in it. But then suddenly, like, it kind of became overwhelming in that moment when I expected things to relax to get better.

Yeah. And it, and it didn't, um. But yeah, it was just, it's really interesting because it, things are different. Like a holiday pre-kids and a holiday with kids. Oh yeah. They're just very different things. You can't expect the same thing. No, but that's why I like this recent holiday of being on, 'cause it made me feel like it was kind of like our old holidays we used to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going to like somewhere rural and doing like an activity. And I know your sisters listened to the podcast, so I, I don't want to like, be like, ah, we had a terrible time in France and then we had a lovely time for my birthday. It is not like that at all, but like it, it is just a. A very different style of things and it was much more of like also, and Lola was a lot better.

Yeah. So like you were able to go and. Go on your boats. Yeah. But I dunno, maybe, maybe it's like the reverse for me, like the, the most recent one we did something that was, for me, something that was like more of a slightly adult holiday that we Yeah. True. Enabled the kids to do. Whereas maybe for you, 'cause you find a lot of reward in spending time with your big family.

Maybe the, the south of France was like, the more, I think they're very different holidays. Mm-hmm. I really enjoyed the South of France one, but this one was I think, more calm. But I think that's 'cause there's generally less kids. Well, yeah, we, we only had two, not like seven or whatever it was, but there's a lot of pressure I think, because like those holidays are our only moments where we can do something for ourselves.

I think like parents, because the rest of the time in your head you're like, we're making memories, like we're making core memories for the kids. Um, and the thing is, Lily's loved both holidays. Mm-hmm. Both holidays. She hasn't wanted to come home. She said, please, can we stay? Mm-hmm. Now she's asking, when we're going on holiday again, when are we gonna go on the boats again?

Yes. But what's fascinating is you ask them like, what was your favorite thing? Oh yeah. What's, what have you most enjoyed this last week? They'll often come out with such bizarre, mundane things. Oh yeah. Like, just everyday little tiny moments that are like just part of the parenting life. The, and I think that's a real like eye-opener to you to be like, it's just the normal, every day is fine.

Like, oh yeah. You know? And adjusting to that new reality. So much of your time as a parent is focused on looking after another person, another human. You cater your life to their needs. Yeah. You never really focus on yourself. I think that's true, and I think I'm often always checking like, are you okay? Is Daddy.

Okay. Is Lola okay? And I'm never going, am I okay? Mm mm Because you're constantly like checking on everybody else to be like, they're doing all right and they're doing all right. Are they doing okay? And even in today's society, I, it's still quite often a thing of moms, isn't it? That they, they are the ones that end up like doing that and not having time for themselves.

I think the emotional baggage. Yeah. Like holding a lot of that together. Um, like, I dunno, just not always the case and certainly not for us, but it seems to be the trend that like dads do find time to go out and keep going with some of the things. Oh, yeah. I, I know a lot of people who are like, oh, my husband goes to the gym three times a week.

Yeah, exactly. I was like, like three times a week. Yeah. So they get a break three. But I was also gonna try to say, so it's not all doom and gloom. Mm-hmm. Like, it's like an adjustment period and you kind of find you're just in a, in a different role. Yeah. So like, not that being mum is a hobby, but it is kind of like you get like a skillset that's like.

Just, you just never knew you'd be able to do so many things. Mm-hmm. And also like, it's just, it is a kind of, it's such an honor to have such a role sometimes. Yeah. Like a lot of times I'm like, to these children, I'm one of the most important PE people in the world. Yeah. Like, they love me so much. Yeah.

That it's just, it's like crazy sometimes. How much. They idolize you and look up to you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's so much joy isn't there? But not only that, it's like those moments when like they look at you adoringly or like they like express things. It's just. It is so wonderful to realize how much you mean to them and that like what it is that you are putting into it.

And I think like with some stuff it just makes, it makes life so much, like, I know people don't like people saying this, but I do think kids make Christmas magical. Like there's certain periods where you're like, you see it through their eyes. Yeah. And it's so much more special. Yeah. And so much more. Just, well, that's been like this past weekend for me.

Really? Because, you know, we've been and stayed in a cabin. We've done lots of boating on the lake there, and that's been like, it's my childhood dream really. You know, I grew up with a massive nostalgia for like swallows and Amazons. We used to go to the Lake District every year and that sort of thing. I love kayaking and boating and like.

That whole, you know, that world I like, I really enjoy it. Um, but to be able to share that with Lily and her to come out on boats with me and like really enjoy and, and see her in like, have fun doing those things with me just makes it like even better. Yeah. And seeing like the photos, she's so proud. Like sat on the boat with you, like helping and, yeah.

And she was so cute when we first got there, we sat in the Cabb and she was like, it is very beautiful here. Aw. And we were like, yes, it's Lily. It is. Yeah. Yeah. It's like embracing. I know you, it's always, you embrace the chaos, but it's embracing like that it, it's like now part of your identity and it's Yeah.

Embracing that new identity. Yeah. Because it come with, it comes. A lot of positives as well as things you might have lost along the way. Mm. Because we are all changing all the time. Like I think it's a misconception that like you, like we think we would keep all of ourselves Oh, they're all set. Yeah. And just keep going, but we all change.

So

you found a hair bubble. Wow. And it's sparkly. I'm sure we'll change more as like the kids get older. When the kids leave home, we'll change again. Like it's just part of what it is to live. Mm. I don't, I don't mind like dad being part of, you know, my core identity, if that, you know, that makes sense. Like, no.

Um, so for you, what do you think, like what is your. Mom identity. And what things do you think you've lost along the way and what things do you think you've picked up? I mean, I can't say I was like that interesting a person beforehand. I haven't lost like a ton of stuff. You were very interesting. I think a lot of it's life changes.

Well though, like I used to see myself a lot more like, like I grew up on a farm, like, you know? Mm-hmm. Whereas I feel like I, I still have that person in me, but I mean, I don't really like hang around a lot of animals anymore. Like I think your dentist changes. A lot naturally. Mm-hmm. But I think a lot of it's just like, I used to feel like my accomplishments have changed, basically.

Mm-hmm. And like I'd be like, oh, I've read so many books this year. Or like, I've done this art thing and they're really proud of it. And. Now, like my accomplishments much more like I've gone to the toilet bar myself with nobody with me. Like, or like I've kept a child alive for a whole year. Um, it's, it is just like the things that are important to you change, therefore it kind of just changes.

Who you are kind of. Mm. But I think a lot of my losses are kind of just social, probably. Mm. Yes you can. I think you, you lose a lot of friends along the way, don't you? A bit. Yeah. No, I think that because now most of my friends are all people who are friends, like they're children are friends and my children.

Mm. Which means that I've regained a social life, but it's within a different context. Yeah. With Lily, I managed to really get into fitness actually. Mm. Um, and I'm hoping to get back to that once I. Well, I mean soonish once Lola's in a good stage. 'cause I'd never really, I mean I did like running and stuff at school and, but I'd never really got into it.

And then I actually feel like I got quite good at it. It was quite a nice hobby to have. And most of my other, like almost hobbies now are like creating activities for the children. Mm. But that is its own kind of almost hobby and enjoyment that you kind of, there's whole communities now, like people who do Montessori praise and.

That kind of thing. Here you go. Yeah. It's interesting. So you seem to have like not tried to really pick up. Like your old things, but actually just taken on new things and embraced that. That's true. Like you'll just do different things in this stages of life. Mm. Yeah. I think I've just like, yeah. I don't think I've intentionally picked different things.

It's just kind of how it's happened. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. I'm probably the opposite. I mean, I don't know that I've taken on anything that's significantly different, but I have continued to try and keep up with things you like a few little bits that I like. Like our recent thing to go boating, but also like, I still keep up with doing a bit of photography and creative stuff and Yeah.

True. Um, but you've also found like a new kind of reason for it. Like you make, um, like not publicly, but for us, like he makes like little videos, like, but he makes public, but for us, like every year he makes a video of like how the kids have grown and stuff. Yeah. So it's like kind of a highlight. Video for like us and the family to see you.

You maybe should have got to the end of that sentence quicker. I was saying we make private videos together. Um, yeah, so I film a lot of what we are like day to day in the family and like create a little vlog at the end of the year of like, this has been our year of like here's video clips from all the stuff we've done this year.

And like when we're on holiday, I always just like a little. Montage of things we've done on holiday. Yeah, yeah. So like utilize like my hobby in like a slightly different way, I suppose. It's tricky, you know, like for me as a introvert, like part of. Who I was and like what really helped me used to be like spending a lot of time alone.

Yeah. Just like that was a lot of like how you reset. Yeah. Life entailed and also how I reset and like when you've got kids, especially two kids now, it's just like full on all the time and Oh, you, you never alone. Yeah. Yik, you never peace and quiet. Um, I think that's probably why I cope Well, 'cause you know, I grew up never alone.

Yeah. A loud, busy household, whereas my household was pretty chill and like, like quite quiet and I'd do a lot of independent play, but like, yeah. So I found a few like things where I can do a bit of that, but like, it is an adjustment to like the new way of being is, is finding little ways to help you.

Maintain yourself within the busy environment of parenting. Like I've recently taken up, uh, since our holiday, like with like the Headspace app and doing like some little, like, rather than just listening to podcasts and audio books, like trying to intentionally take some time to like look after like my wellbeing that way.

I think you all seemed happier. Hmm. But I don't know if that's just 'cause also like Lola's improving. Well, that's true. Like it's very circumstantial. Like, like it's okay if you like don't really know who you are anymore. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like to some extent you've gotta let everything settle.

Like you've gotta work through the survival phase and like I feel like that's where we're getting to now with Lily, where she's becoming like a good age where we can do things together and I'm beginning to see. Like how, how we will be as a family unit. Yeah. As like a little group. And that's really exciting.

But like in this middle phase where it's all like, the kids are all really young and you have a baby and everything's kind of just chaotic and you people care from us doing this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And like it's okay just to not know. Who you are or what's going on, or any tips or anything? I would say, I know people go, oh, there's very judgey people, but I think baby groups are great.

Mm-hmm. Like, and I don't even go to baby groups. I go to like. Um, there's a placing, oh, what's it called? Is it called Little Harrogate? Me and the girls go to on, um, Fridays, and it's like a similar, it's a nice way just to talk to other people that aren't just the kids. So I'm not, it's not like, oh, I'm really chatty with everybody.

But I feel like now and again, you have little conversations and it, it's just nice to. Like, even though it's like, you know, as your kids play, it's just nice to kind of be in a space where you're all like kind of in the same boat. Mm. You know, you're all, yeah. Is that a pretty flower? Yeah. Shout out to little Harrogate though, 'cause you've been chatting a lot with Megan and like, you've enjoyed if you, if you're local based, we'd highly recommend it.

Yeah. 'cause you've enjoyed like being able to take. Both kids of different ages Yeah. To something which is something baby groups, it's so rare at the minute. You can't often do, um, especially 'cause there's about, is there two and a half years between them? Mm. Uh or three and three and a half. Half. Three and a half.

So it is, it's quite, it's not a big, big age difference, but it's big enough that there's not many things that are often suitable for both of them. So even like if you go to a soft play, there's normally a baby section and like a toddler section and Yeah. It's just nice if you're going somewhere where you can just have both girls in the same space.

So I know she's listened to a few of the episodes of the podcast, so, um, yeah, highly recommend it if, uh, you happen to be Harrogate based. And the girls enjoy it a lot. They do. They love it.

Oh, so do segment. For you, the spirituality of parenting. I liked that. If you've listened to us in the past, you've probably picked up in various places, uh, with semi-religious and like Yeah, we sometimes go to church with. Self identify as Christians. Particularly, I'm doing a lot through my work, is trying to like advocate a way of looking at it that's not so like institutional religion, old fuddy church building, but like how do you connect with however you want to interpret the word God.

In like the everyday context. And I feel like there's a lot of that within parenting. We, we often talk about like the joys and challenges and those like moments that like kind of just feed your soul. And for me that's, that is like spirituality in a way. So yeah, I feel like, and that ties a lot into this.

Conversation that is very inward looking about who are we as people? That feels like a very spiritual conversation. Yeah, no, I think that's true and I think almost having children is sometimes quite a spiritual experience, especially for women. 'cause you're like kind of forming a life. Hmm. And you kind of imagine who's this little person gonna be?

And it all seems kind of impossible sometimes. Yeah. Like I often look at Lola and think, how did this big like baby ever, ever come out on me? Like it used to be a tiny little. Cell in my body. Yeah. And now look at it. Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. Yeah. I look at Lily and go, how did she ever live there? Like I know it sounds crazy there, spiritual, but it's kind of like, it's almost impossible to me.

Like I get the science behind it, but it's also just kind of amazing. Yeah. That such a thing can happen. I think for me it's a little bit like the Lion King, where it's sort of like whenever you see babies or young children, you get a real sense of that like circle of life type thing. Yes. That's true Of, of this like.

We are part of an ongoing story of like how the universe continues to to be, and we are like. All connected to each other in a weird sort of way. If that's not too kind of woowoo type thing. No, I know what you mean. But even within the day to day, I'm not just paying attention to like mind and body. Like that's what I think we often do in survival mode with parenting.

Are we actually physically alive and are we mentally well? But like what feels missing from that is like, are we spiritually. Fed as well in some shape or form. And by that I'm not like encouraging people to go to church by any means to connect something almost bigger than yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Like for me, I do a, you know, this is a, like, you probably realize there's semi plug for.

Some of the work I do elsewhere. If you wanna check it out, then I'll, you can find links and stuff in the description. But I do like a series of Disney Church where we talk about faith and spirituality. Yeah. In Disney films, like even stuff like that, you know, in whatever it is, you can find things that help talk to us and speak to us of something beyond the physical.

What are some like moments that feel particularly, I dunno, spiritual, if you wanna use that word, uh, within parenting for you? Or do you have any like top tips of how you, how people could embrace more of that within parenting? I think for me, just, I dunno how to say it in a nice way. Doing like service, like little jobs is quite meaningful when you do it for someone else, like.

Almost doing acts of kindness for the people has a lot of meaning to me. Mm-hmm. And you're kind of doing that all the time, every day with kids. Yeah. Helping others, like sharing life and you're being like altruistic all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Like, which is a big sacrifice, but it's also like you, you are, by having children, you are saying, I'm sacrificing what most of my wants for the wants of like your little people.

Yeah. I mean, if you are a good parent, that is, you know, yes, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. There are certainly styles of parenting that maybe don't, aren't quite as altruistic, but true. Yeah. If, if you feel like you've been like, called to be a parent. Mm-hmm. Mm. But that's it, isn't it? It's like, in some ways it helps me, like describe my faith in a way.

Like you say, like for some people it is quite a calling in life. Mm. To be a mom or a dad and like that is part of their new identity. And yeah. It also like helps give you an idea of what it, like, what it must look like. You know, I, I don't see God as like a father figure that, you know, like is a, a physical parent.

Yeah. But in that way you can kind of. Maybe understand more like why is there suffering in the world? Why are there these things? Because actually like as a parent, you don't micromanage. Yeah. You know, but you still feel deep sadness when your children are sad. You feel deep love when they are joyful, like all those things.

But like they are their own person. They live their own life. Yeah. You are one, but you are separate. I also think it's made me a much more loving person in general. Like, not like, like less. Maybe more understanding is what I'm trying to say. 'cause I think when you have children, you can see everybody like almost as when they were child.

Mm-hmm. So like most people I see before I was quite judgy. Yeah. I could be like, well that's someone's. Kids like that, that they've made poor life decisions. But if that was my child, I'd want someone to be nice to them. Yeah. I wouldn't want someone to be mean. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think it's made me a much more like softer person generally to lots of situations in people.

'cause I always think if, if Lily or Lola got themselves in situational or you know, anything, even, even if somebody's been a bit rude to me, I'm like, well, they're probably having a bad day. That's someone's kid. Mm. Like I wouldn't want someone to judge my kid based on that. True. Sometimes you can't walk in another's shoes until you've been through something challenging yourself.

Mm-hmm. And certainly parenting brings with it a whole load of challenges and. Probably, you know, as much as it would be great to avoid them Yeah. At times. And we wish we hadn't gone through some of it. It like it does sometimes help you have that empathy and help you resonate with others and help you, you know?

Mm. I dunno, like, I, I really don't think I. We suffer for a reason. Yeah. I don't think it's inflicted on us. I don't think we are tested in things. I know. I think it's one of those people, like all things have a purpose. You know? Some religious people are like, oh, it's good to suffer. Yeah, definitely not. No.

Sometimes life is just shit. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I think there are things through that that we can learn. Yeah. True. There we go. Getting into big the feel. Philosophical. Philosophical. That's the one. There you go. That one. Uh, I feel like there's a big overlap with like spirituality, religion, philosophy, ethics, all those like interesting stuff.

Yeah. I think there is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We are quite like thinking Christians, aren't we? We like the kind of Oh, you mean from opposed to mindless people? Insulting. I know. I mean like some people are all about like the feelings and the like experience something, whereas we quite like to like sit down and discuss Oh, we like to dissect.

Yeah. We're quite scientific about it. That won't be everyone's cup of tea and that's fine, but it's like we're who we are. Mm-hmm. Um, there you go. I was dived into some interesting stuff there.

So Elliot, do we have any comments from our listeners? We're not very good at remembering to do this, but we do like to share comments and feedback and things that have been sent in from various different episodes. 'cause we haven't done this in a while. But we had some nice comments on our low Pape episode where we chatted about pregnancy and all, about the info about low pape.

One comment. Thank you for this. I'm pregnant with my first baby and just received results very similar to yours. This was reassuring. It's great to hear. And another. Thank you so much for this episode. It was so informative and helpful. Currently waiting on NIPT Tech results and this has made the wait feel less anxious, our intention from the start.

So really good to hear. Louisa also comments, um, on our YouTube videos and it's good to chat away with her there. Um, one of the recent ones on our past, the past episode, she shared that like us, I don't understand the trend of having big parties for one year olds with cake smashes and all the waste and stuff that comes with it.

And good to hear about, uh. What she gets up to with her nephews and nieces Over on Spotify, we have some comments from Katie who does the Amazing Monologue podcast. She loved the Baby phase survival episode. We did, uh, discussing the journey to six months and she says, Emma, plastic ham is not acceptable and goes on to say, I listen to this while walking newborn around the park so my husband can attempt bedtime as if I'm in the house.

Both babies want me in lots of screaming ensues, so thanks for keeping me company. Made use of one of your top tips. There we go. Perfect. And then let's jump over to Instagram. A number of you replying to our stories over there. We've already mentioned Little Harrogate. Uh, in the episode this week, we've been chatting to special thanks to Louise who shared the podcast to us Stories.

Uh, she was listening to it on her evening. Walk over at, at my Adoption journey. Thanks for listening along and sharing. We also had a few responses about Yolk Farm, which is local to us, where we, uh, posted. Where we tagged that we'd visited recently when Lily was off nursery for a day. 'cause uh, nursery didn't have enough staff.

But anyway, I think that about brings us up to date on stuff. We'd love this community to grow. So please do share this with a friend. It really supports the show. And, uh, we're ever so grateful that you enjoy being here with us on this journey, this little parenting podcast of ours. If you wanna get involved and connect with us directly, feel free to on social media or join us over on Facebook.

We have a group chat there where you can engage with other listeners or message us directly. Um, all the links to the stuff are on our website, www.kairosmovement.org.uk/. Don't wake the baby. I hope this episode has been interesting, helpful, something. Yeah, it, it articulates something of maybe either where you are or where you maybe have been or even has it been articulate.

Probably not knowing us. Probably not l lesbians. Shouting a lot. So yeah, I don't know what's salvageable from all that. I probably will have cut a lot out in post, but just so you know, Lola has been a nightmare in this episode. Goodness me. Goodness me. Live fire. Live fire. Well, I mean, as you go and figure out who on earth you are as a person, yeah.

Your identity as a mum or a dad. Then, um, I hope you have a nice life. Yeah. We'll, uh, see you next time on the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate the support. Yeah. Let us know if you have any deep thoughts. Yeah, yeah. About anything deep and silly. I feel like there are mottoes of the podcast or something along those lines.

Peepee, peepee you next time. God bless. Sleep well. Don't wait for baby. Don't wait the baby.