Dr. Boyd has expertise in adapting interventions for adolescents and perinatal people, particularly African Americans. Listen to this month’s episode to learn about the innovative strategies deployed by Dr. Boyd to ensure interventions are culturally sensitive and reduce perinatal depressive symptoms, improve parenting, and address suicidal ideation.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd is an Associate Professor in the Department of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) and the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine. Additionally, she is a researcher at CHOP PolicyLab and a member of the National Scientific Council on Adolescence. Dr. Boyd is the Associate Director of the CHOP’s Child and Adolescent Mood Program in the outpatient clinic, where Dr. Boyd practices as a licensed psychologist specializing in the evaluation and treatment of youth with depression and suicide risk. She has served as a Principal Investigator and Co-Investigator on multiple federal grants, including those from the National Institutes of Health and the Maternal and Child Health Bureau. Dr. Boyd has conducted several studies examining maternal depression and its impact on children, particularly focused on Black families. She has developed and adapted interventions for urban, diverse families with maternal depression in multiple settings, such as community, mental health, and primary care. Dr. Boyd is a Co-Investigator for two Practice-Based Suicide Prevention Research Centers funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. She is also a fellow of the American Psychological Association.
Dr. Boyd has expertise in adapting interventions for adolescents and perinatal people, particularly African Americans. Listen to this month’s episode to learn about the innovative strategies deployed by Dr. Boyd to ensure interventions are culturally sensitive and reduce perinatal depressive symptoms, improve parenting, and address suicidal ideation.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd is an Associate Professor in the Department of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) and the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine. Additionally, she is a researcher at CHOP PolicyLab and a member of the National Scientific Council on Adolescence. Dr. Boyd is the Associate Director of the CHOP’s Child and Adolescent Mood Program in the outpatient clinic, where Dr. Boyd practices as a licensed psychologist specializing in the evaluation and treatment of youth with depression and suicide risk. She has served as a Principal Investigator and Co-Investigator on multiple federal grants, including those from the National Institutes of Health and the Maternal and Child Health Bureau. Dr. Boyd has conducted several studies examining maternal depression and its impact on children, particularly focused on Black families. She has developed and adapted interventions for urban, diverse families with maternal depression in multiple settings, such as community, mental health, and primary care. Dr. Boyd is a Co-Investigator for two Practice-Based Suicide Prevention Research Centers funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. She is also a fellow of the American Psychological Association.
MONA Podcast Interview Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:00:04] Welcome to studying Perinatal Wellbeing. The podcast of the Marce of North America. This bilingual monthly podcast will allow new and experienced researchers, practitioners, students, and community members to hear about the latest research and community actions on perinatal well-being. I'm Dr. Lara-Cinisomo, your host. Dr. Rhonda Boyd is an associate professor in the Department of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, also known as Chop. She is also the Associate Director of Chop’s Child and Adolescent Mood Program in the outpatient clinic, where she practices as a licensed psychologist specializing in the evaluation and treatment of youth with depression and suicide risk. She is also a researcher at Chop's Policy Lab and a member of the National Scientific Council on Adolescents. Dr. Boyd has served as a principal investigator and co-investigator on multiple federal grants. She has conducted several studies examining maternal depression and its impact on children with a focus on black families. And she has developed and adapted interventions for urban, diverse families with maternal depression in multiple settings, including the community and primary care. Currently, she is a co-investigator for two practice based suicide prevention research centers funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. She is also a fellow of the American Psychological Association. Welcome, Dr. Boyd.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:01:32] Thank you for having me.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:01:34] Yeah, we're so glad you're here. And you can join us. So, let's start by learning a little bit about you. How did you become interested in perinatal mental health?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:01:41] I became interested in perinatal mental health during a postdoc early in the 2000. I did a postdoc as part of the Society for Research on Child Development. And as part of that fellowship, we were placed in different agencies or with the federal government. I was placed, partially with the National Institute of Mental Health, and one of the projects they had me working on was postpartum depression. And so, during that time, I became familiar with the field. So, during that time, I worked with people at NIMH to develop a meeting in which we were experts in the field of postpartum depression. And to NIMH, it was a two-day meeting where we talked about where the field was and where the research needs to go. And that sparked my interest. I learned a lot from those experts, and I realized there was a gap that I could fill. And particularly I had an interest in prevention, and there was not a lot of research on ethnically diverse populations. Still is a dearth, but it was particularly so back then. And so I decided that I will bring my prevention expertise to the field of perinatal depression and develop a research career from there. And so that was my first sort of interest and which sparked that. I also had an interesting time. During the year, I had the opportunity to testify in front of the Congressional Black Caucus to bring education about postpartum depression and perinatal mental health to the African-American community and what was needed. And so that was a great opportunity also that I had during that year.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:03:35] And it's great they picked such a great voice to champion that effort. Thank you for doing that. That's wonderful. So you're a psychologist in child and adolescent psychiatry and social sciences at Chop or also Children's Hospital Philadelphia. Tell us how working with children and adolescents informs your research on perinatal mental health.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:03:55] Many ways I see it all. Relate it. I take a life span approach in particular, that the families that I work with, when you see teens or even young kids, that they are in the context of families particularly, and also with perinatal women, they also function within the context of families. So I just say it kind of along the same line. Often at the kids I see, their parents may struggle with mental health issues that many times could have started when they were teenagers, but also during pregnancy, postpartum period. And particularly I know that I tend to see teenage girls who have depression and in a sense, I think about the work I do clinically that will help hopefully prevent these young people from going on and having depression or other disorders. Once, they began to have children. And so I bring it all together because they are all in many ways the same individuals just at different slices in their lifetime.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:05:00] Yeah. What an interesting life perspective. And if we can get a sense of what are some of these precursors, oftentimes we see them when they've already had adverse life events or a depression episode early in life, which we know is a strong predictor for perinatal depression. Also, it sounds like you may be working with a very diverse group who may have very, very important experiences in adolescence that can change or set or at least be affected by in terms of their life course and what it might mean for them during the pre-conception and perinatal period. So tell us a little bit more about some of the work you're doing. For example, one of your studies adapted an evidence-based parenting program for caregivers with depressive symptoms who are caring for toddlers. Why was that study critical and what did you find?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:05:51] It was one of the earlier studies I did, collaborating with my long-term colleague, Dr. James Koba, who was a pediatrician at Chop. In that study, we adapted the Incredible Years program, which is an evidence-based parenting program for caregivers with depression symptoms who were screened in pediatric clinics. And so we added psychoeducation about depression, social support, and behavioral activation to Incredible Years program. What we found was that parenting discipline improved in the parenting group compared to a waitlist control. But depression symptoms and parenting stress did not differ. One of the things that stood out is that attendance was poor for this in-person group. 40% of the caregivers didn't attend any session. And so our average was 3.7 out of 12 sessions attended. And so those things brought up some issues that we need to consider when we do parenting programs, particularly parents who have, mental distress.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:07:00] Yeah. So you identified some challenges with regard to, maybe the feasibility or being able to implement the intervention because of low attendance. And I believe you did some work following up on that, those lessons you learned early on. Can you tell us, for example, about your, intervention that you adapted for mothers with postpartum depression? You used, Facebook compared to an in-person intervention. Can you tell us about that study and how that came about? Because that's very interesting.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:07:31] Actually, it was came after the study that we did with Incredible Years. We were struck that we put a lot of effort into doing those groups, providing meals, childcare, paying for transportation, and that still the parents were not able to come out. One of the things that happened in the meantime is that our institution started screening for postpartum depression and well-child visits. So we thought it makes sense to go to the postpartum depression age group because it was institutionally it was being screened. And so that was an opportunity. But we also realized that having the in-person group did not think feasible. And so that's when it came up about using social media. And at that point, social media was exploding. And it still is. But we thought about how we could do this on social media. At that point, we could not continue to use the same intervention that we were using. So, we found another one called Parents Interacting with Infants. And we were able to adapt that for Facebook. It is in a secret group, and parents complete it in a group format, and they're able to get different modules during the week of parenting. So, trying to mimic what would happen in an in-person group at first, you learn the lesson and you have a task, and then you have the homework at the end. And so, it's sent out during the week. And so, we did a pilot initially. We actually also showed the content to postpartum mothers to get their fill about the content. One of the things they did let us know is that they did want depression talked about initially up front. And so, we made sure that we started with that because that was why they were coming into the study. And so, we pilot-tested it was 12 in each group. One group had the intervention on Facebook, but the other had an in-person group. And so we found that the depression symptoms decreased for those people who had the Facebook delivery. And it stayed the same for those mothers who did the in-person group. In-person group had really poor attendance and so that was the thing that realized that it wasn't really feasible. Most mothers never attended. We mailed them out the material, but we don’t know if they actually read or not. But the mothers rated the Facebook intervention highly and they actually attended. And so attendance was pretty good. And so then we moved that on to another study.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:10:12] Tell us about this next study that you did, because that's impressive that you've been able to build on prior studies. That's fantastic. Let's hear about it.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:10:20] So actually we were able to get funding to continue this work, to do it with a larger group. And so, we tested what we call PWD (Parenting with Depression) intervention. That's the intervention on social media. But we also at this point paired it with MoodGym. And that's the cognitive behavioral intervention that is done over a computer’s web-based. And so that is compared to just having a MoodGym alone. One of the things is that we wanted to have a more active control group that is receiving something for all people because we recognize that many of the women do not actually go to mental health treatment. So, this was an opportunity to give them some kind of treatment that they could go on their own. This point, we also looked at mother-infant interactions through an observational pre-play. And our findings show that both groups did not differ in their mother-infant interactions. They similarly improved over three months pre-post. Particularly we did find an interesting finding is that although both groups decrease their depression over three months, those who participated with the social media intervention, actually their depression scores went down quicker and that was like unexpected. And so, we recognized that something was going on. We also tend to look at like what happens when people are more engaged. And so, we were able to look at when people engage more with the intervention, that they actually had more positive improvements in their interactions with their infant. And so really engagement does matter. And we also looked at the MoodGym. It wasn't used much. 70% of the mothers didn't complete any of the modules, but those who did use MoodGym, their depression scores decreased. So, there is this theme about being engaged in these interventions are helpful I believe.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:12:30] Yeah, that is interesting. So, you're talking about engagement. And I asked a little bit about feasibility. We talk about feasibility. Can you tell us who's delivering the interventions? Because that might be informative for listeners as well. Is it trained? Is it lay community health workers who are delivering these interventions that you've adapted?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:12:51] They're being delivered by our study coordinator. So, this is a master's in public health level person, without mental health experience. But this is a parenting intervention that actually a person doesn't have parenting experience either or any parenting group. So it is set up for them to not have sort of significant mental health expertise. And so they respond to questions. The goal is to get the mothers to talk among themselves, but also interact with the material. There are times if there's something that comes up in which they cannot answer that my colleague or I will be able to offer our expertise, but that actually happens very rarely. So.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:13:39] So there are almost three points of interactions: the participants with each other, the participants with the coordinator who's implementing the intervention, and then potentially with the content experts like you or your, co-PI. Is that right?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd[00:13:55] Yes.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:13:55] Wow. That's wonderful. And then I guess a fourth level is interacting with the content, and potentially a fifth level is parent-child interactions. So, there is a lot of activity that the person can engage in, whether it's with material or individuals. How do you think that helps improve depressive symptoms?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:14:15] I think this to support the focus on themselves, to be able to engage in material, to learn about, you know, new strategies. I think those are the things that are helpful for moms. I think interacting with our setting, having a group to go to. We do interact with them, completing measures and also being available if other things come up, if they need additional resources. So we do give a full experience in some ways. Sometimes I wonder ways, is that maybe why the control group does okay? But we recognize that these mothers have a lot going on, a lot of stressors, and we're hoping that they learn things from the parenting group. But I think it's sort of this outlet in many ways for that.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:15:04] Yeah, it tells us about the importance of resources and support that we should be providing families and the caregivers, but also the parent who is experiencing those depressive symptoms. A lot of your sample is predominantly, low-income African American. Can you tell us about the important factors that we should consider when engaging a diverse community like that in research, especially when we're trying to implement an intervention around perinatal depression?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:15:35] Yes, there's many things to consider. First, sort of understanding the community and the people that you are engaging. Oftentimes we do qualitative work initially to interviews and also get feedback from people in the community, providers and also the women participating because it's important to hear their voices. It's also important to understand there's diversity among the population. And so we try to take we have to take that into account that that there will be diversity and to develop the intervention that will fit all the diversity within the community. One of the things is, because we're doing the intervention in a Philadephia area, we recognize that our population is mostly urban. And so that sort of helps because that may mean different if we live if we were in a rural community or things like that. So those are the things that I think is important to consider. We also with recruitment is always a challenge. Families have a lot of stressors. And there's things that are related to economic status. But there's also things that are associated with being African American, dealing with racism, going back to work. All of these things intersect, and many times you can't tease them apart. It's what I recognize. And so trying to meet families where they are at and working with these women and being flexible and addressing their needs and hearing them when they say that something's working or not working. And we are trying to adapt to make sure that we fit the needs of our community.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:17:18] Yeah, yeah. So being responsive, but also being aware before you go into developing that study is important and really knowing the diverse needs of a diverse population and that there's diversity within those populations. You talked about providing additional information or resources for your participants. What were some of the things they needed that you were able to address or, that we should be thinking about in working with low-income African American perinatal people?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:17:46] We send them mental health resources, definitely crisis hotline. Now it was great that 988 came out, so we can, you know, utilize that. But also and when we first started the first study, we realized that issues of housing came up a lot in particular during the pandemic. And so we really had to spend some time thinking about what we need or figuring out from who at our institution can help provide supports finding information ourselves about housing. Things come up about childcare, and where to access and there are social workers at many of the pediatric offices. So many times we can partner with them to sort of help find things, but those things came up just regular living life. You know, the hard demands of raising kids, paying your bills, feeding your children and things like that.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:18:43] So yeah, you talked about a pediatric setting. It sounds like that was a pivotal collaboration and working with pediatricians, but also working with the medical setting that was going to already be screening parents for perinatal mental health or for depressive symptoms. So, I know that there are different, demands on caregivers. How were you able to collaborate and work that relationship out so that the benefit could really stand out for their investment? Because clinicians may have a lot of competing demands. So, what are some tips that you can provide when working with pediatricians or primary care physicians or OB/GYN providers?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:19:26] One of the positive things is that they are screening regularly at the different Well-child visits, and it has expanded since we started this work. And so, it's already part of the structure. One of the things which happens is that, once people are screened positive, what do you do? We recognize that's the big gap. And so we were able to develop, electronic alert that goes into that medical record, the electronic medical record. So once someone's eligible, it pops up in the record for the pediatrician to look at it. It describes our study criteria, and they have an option of introducing the study and talking with, mother about whether they would like to be referred to the study. And so they can ignore it or but they can also give them an opportunity so they can do something about it. And so they can refer to our study that way.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:20:25] Your point about giving the provider an option of something they could do. Maybe there isn't a perinatal mental health expert in their health care facility or that they can refer to, but if there's a study, then there's another option that the provider can offer the birthing person.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:20:42] Yes. And so that's also a great option. In particular, we also give them feedback to let them know that the person, you know, the birthing mother person has come into our study. We also now, will be looking at kid outcomes. And so the goal is to send that a report to the pediatrician about how the kids doing later on so that they also are getting some benefit from it.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:21:11] Yeah, it's another level of care that you're essentially providing for those families and then the clinician can be part of as well. I'm curious about how you describe depression related studies to participants. I know that there has been discussion about how we talk about depression with diverse groups when we introduce the term of depression, but you said in one of your studies that the women wanted to talk about depression early in the intervention. So is the research introduced as a depression related study or is it introduce as a parenting study? Can you tell us a little bit about the message that you share with potential participants about the intervention?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:21:53] It is packaged as a parenting program for mothers with postpartum depression symptoms. Part of it is being part of a pediatric institution. We don't treat adults. And so what is acceptable in our institution is treating parenting. And so that comes up as an issue, which means that if you're in another setting in which it's more integrated, but often times children and parent services or adult services are separate. And so the mothers do know they're coming in because of the postpartum depression symptoms. And so we do not give diagnoses. We are not doing any diagnostic information. It's just sort of a score on a, a screening measure. And so but it is packaged as a parenting intervention. And so even though we're seeing benefit for depression symptoms, and many times when we thought about it that was secondary, we thought, but you recognize you can't. They're related. And so that we are affecting both at the same time.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:23:03] Yes. And I imagine that it can be empowering for the parent to think that they can improve their mood while, caring for their child, given the stigma around depression and depression in the perinatal period. Interventions like yours says that you can still parent if you have depressive symptoms, and we can provide resources for doing so and help improve both parent-infant interactions but also parent mental health. What a fantastic message to say we are here to support you given the complex issues you may be are incurring. That's fantastic. You talked about the fact that you are now focusing on child outcomes. What can you tell us about that study?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:23:47] Right now, we're filing kids out to nine months after the intervention. So we're still looking at mother-infant interactions at three months. But we are doing the Bayley to look at child development later. And so, we are still recruiting. We are close. We're getting closer to the end. But so, we will be able to look at whether the intervention impacts kid outcomes, both developmental but also social and emotional. And as you know, the research is not as clear about sort of the long-term effects when mothers birthing parents, whether their depression gets better, does it impact kid outcomes. And so, we're hoping to be able to look at that mediated through the mother-infant interaction.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:24:40] Yeah. And do you record any of those interactions? Are you observing them live and then tracking those interactions? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:24:48] We’re doing a five minute free play. And so they are videotaped. And then we send them to Dr. Rosanne Clark and her colleagues to rate them. And so we have independent raters looking at them, rating them. So we’ve had it’s been interesting about just even recording them initially pre-pandemic when we first started, we did it in person in a lab and after our first for the world change and everything shut down. And so we tried different methods to actually do the recordings. At one point we had parents recording themselves and give them instructions and sending it to us. And as you can imagine, that caused a little concern because sometimes it took a long time to upload, depending on the bandwidth and also sometimes the lighting or the sound could that of work. And so now we’re doing it through a fiber-compliant video, system. And so, we are recording it with our staff. So then they can look at the lighting in the sound forum while the mother and child interact. And so that’s kind of worked out the best. And so we continue that way even though the pandemic is over, everything’s been done virtually.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:26:05] Oh wow. That's so innovative and so smart to find a system that is both HIPAA compliant but also more feasible for everyone. Yes. One of the challenges sometimes in doing this virtual work is reliable internet for families, the cost of internet, the devices needed for this kind of work, how have you addressed those factors?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:26:28] So one of the eligibility criteria is that the birthing person needs to have a cell phone, a smartphone. So that is which we have not found that as a significant problem. But during the course of the intervention, we do give a stipend that would cover the internet costs. And so that was our way of sort of handling that.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:26:51] And I imagine that that is helpful to families to have that stipend. At the beginning or at the end or, throughout the study?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:27:01] Throughout the three months of the intervention, we give them a stipend. That's been helpful because I don't think we've really lost people with their phones turning off during the intervention part. But later on, as we do follow up that happens. But yes, at least on the intervention, that's the significant barrier.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:27:19] That's great. Now, you've been really smart about how you're adapting interventions and making them responsive to your participants needs. I know that one of your NIH funded studies is adapting and testing a patient navigation system. Now, this is for younger people. This is for black youth, 10 to 18 with suicidal ideation. What can we learn from that ongoing study about, you know, adapting interventions that are also culturally relevant?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:27:46] A study is ongoing, and it's been a huge learning process. We're doing this work in emergency department, the pediatric emergency department. And so this is my first time working in that setting. And I think what I've learned, which I think is always is, I think understanding your context and the environment that you're working on is an important you can take some lessons from other settings, but there's always new information to learn. We did qualitative interviews first with parents and caregivers. We interviewed social workers in the emergency department to kind of understand what they think are the needs when they are helping families with referrals. And so we incorporated all that information into that, adapting an intervention that was already developed that didn't work well, actually, for a youth of color. So we've been making these changes. Some of it is cultural and contextual together. Recruitment has been very challenging, which we realize. And so we've been trying to be flexible, trying to understand what are some of the barriers to recruitment engagement. And as you can imagine, families are coming into the emergency department in a crisis with their child sometimes realizing their first time. They know that your child is having suicidal ideation and thoughts. And so how to handle that situation in a compassionate manner, allowing families time to figure out if this study fits them and whether they want help the for to go to outpatient treatment and also understanding the different systems of care partial, intensive outpatient, all of that and trying to help families navigate through those things. And it takes actually a long time we were realizing people start programs, they end, and things don't work, and realizing the gaps that kids can fall into, and particularly how this happens within the African-American community watching sort of these gaps in care happen. So we're trying to fill in that area and that gap.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:29:57] Now, I appreciate being so candid about the challenges and the lessons you're learning. A lot of times we hear about studies when they're done and we read about the fascinating findings, but we are not privy to all of the challenges that the investigators, clinicians, and families go through to get these studies completed. So I wish you lots of luck with that intervention. It's an important intervention, indeed, and I hope that you're able to achieve the goals that you've set for that study. We've been talking about adapting interventions, particularly for African-American youth and birthing people. And we talked a little bit about what researchers and clinicians should think about. What about students who are interested in working with these populations? What should they be thinking about as they are planning a career in perinatal well-being? Youth mental health? Given the trajectory we talked about in the life points that we have to consider, not just during the perinatal period, but early in life as well, and later, what recommendations or lessons would you like to share with students who are interested in following in your footsteps?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:31:07] One of the things it's important to get experience doing this work. I know many times we have a lot of student volunteers, people interested in working on projects, because I do think being involved in those projects. Sam, the research teaches you a lot, and I've had in the past people who have worked with me going on to do working in this field, which they didn't think initially, how much they would enjoy this bill, but they end up changing the trajectory. So I do think those research experiences matter a lot, and particularly when they get the more hands on experience and learning. It's one way in particular. There's also probably things you could do in a community volunteer with different organizations to get exposure because it's hard. I think you have to be around those settings to learn about it. You can also learn in classes, but those that those real world experiences are what matters. I think the most.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:32:09] Yeah. Great advice. One of the things that I enjoy about the MONA podcast is that it's really targets clinicians, researchers and community members and students so we can develop that pipeline for sure. So thanks for that sage advice. What recommendations do you have for researchers who are interested in working with African-American low income youth or women? You talked a little bit about being aware of the context. You talked about how in your current study with, suicidal ideation among African-American youth, in that context, in different clinical settings, what are their advice do you have for researchers interested in working with this important population?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:32:51] As I mentioned before, I do think it's important to do that pre-work in the beginning to get to know the community, who you're working with, and that is what worked before or your assumptions. You have to be flexible. Things change very quickly. Trends and things like that. So it's important to do that work upfront to really have those conversations, meet with people, understand what's going on and particularly getting community input. Having an advisory board or, some community input about the work you do and to get that feedback. It's very important.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:33:33] Yeah. Great suggestion about the community advisory board. Definitely. And it can help build capacity in those communities as well. You can identify some potential leaders or the community health workers who can really be part of that work, but also do some work within their different networks.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:33:47] Yes.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:33:48] That's great. Well, what are your hopes for the clinical work and research that you do, and that we all do and try to do in the next five years? What are some of your goals or hopes?
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:33:58] One of the things that particularly has been interesting for me and that I'm getting, having more passion for, is the work I've been doing with Child Policy Lab and particularly putting our research into practice and policy, and how to get the evidence base out to the social world and to inform what happens, how things are implemented and what kind of our laws and bills are passed. And so that is where I see myself trying to figure out how we can bring the two together to inform practice and policy. And so that's should be my trajectory. Exactly how that means. I'm not really sure, but that's it I'm hoping to be able to accomplish.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:34:41] Yeah. That's right. Because you said now, for example, at your hospital, perinatal mental health is screened for an ongoing basis. And if we can get every clinic to do that, that works with birthing people or their children, and we can make it a policy. We know it's true for many states, but not every state. And so policy is an important part, and it should be a critical part of perinatal well-being in this country and globally. So what a great, great goal. I'm so excited for you and looking forward to seeing what you what you achieve. Well, before I end this really important conversation, I like to ask if there's anything else you would like to add or share.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:35:19] No, there's nothing else. This has been the interesting conversation and it's important to able to share what we've learned so far, because I think many times I agree. People see the paper at the end or a nice, clean presentation, and there's a lot of work that goes in all these projects.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:35:38] Well, I wish you luck with all of those important projects, and thank you for making time from your busy day to speak with us. We so appreciate it.
Dr. Rhonda C. Boyd [00:35:44] Thank you for inviting me.
Dr. Lara-Cinisomo [00:35:47] Thank you for joining Studying Perinatal Wellbeing. Please see our show notes on the MONA Podcast website for more information about today's guest. We always look for great Perinatal Wellbeing students, community members, researchers and practitioners to interview. So please email your suggestions to MONA podcast at marcenortham.com. That's MONA podcast at m-a-r-c-e-n-o-r-t-h-a-m.com. Until next time, practice compassion for yourself and others.