The Role of Real Estate in Society – John DiMichele

John DiMichele shares his vision and highlights some of the best achievements he’s been involved in such as reshaping the mindset of the MLS across North America. By spearheading innovation rooted in the Real Estate Financial Process (RFP) and introducing progressive concepts, he’s successfully modernized the MLS landscape and garnered support from industry peers.

But he emphasizes the crucial role of the real estate sector in providing shelter, likening it to a fundamental need alongside air, water, and food. And TRREB has a responsibility in making homeownership accessible.

Guest: John DiMichele, CEO Toronto Regional Real Estate Board (TRREB)
John leads the largest real estate board in North American with over 73,000 licensed real estate brokers and salespersons in the Greater Toronto Area. He holds a Bachelor of Science (Honours) from the University of Waterloo.
https://trreb.ca/

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Transcript

Manny Andrade (00:09):

So I want to welcome you back to another episode of Coffee Beans and Real Estate and maybe just an opportunity to remind everyone what this is all about and what coffee beans in real estate, what they have to do with one another. One of the first conversations that I have with somebody new to the business or signing on to our brokerage is a conversation about coffee beans. And I sort of try and make them understand or envision themselves as a coffee shop owner where you have all the tools, you have, cash registers, dispensers, coffee, coffee machines, tea, whatever, et cetera, et cetera. So now what do you do? Do you have a menu? What's your service? What services you provide? What products are you selling? Who are you catering to? Are you a premium coffee shop owner? Are you a Starbucks? Are you a Tim's, Dunkin Donuts a brand? Who are you? What's your signature?

(01:14):

Where's your menu? What are your hours of operation? What time do you open? What time do you close? Do you have a day off? What day is that? And what expectations you're setting for your clients? And more importantly, what expectations you're setting for yourself as a business owner and now you're a real estate professional, and what do you do? So this is my intro to a newcomer, to the brokerage. Have them envision themselves as a business owner, as a coffee shop owner, and then switch gears and make 'em think what it would be like to be a real estate professional. What do you do? What are your hours of operation? So as a new realtor, new to the business, new professional, they come into the office, new agents come into the office and they spend six months creating their perfect business card or their perfect website.

(02:08):

This again, is what I call productive procrastination. As a business owner, the expectations are you come in, you got a prospect, you got to lead gen, and you got to make sales because coming in, you're going to go three to six months without making any money. So you got to get to it. So I want to get right to it. I want to invite or welcome John back. And today we're going to talk more about John, his role in organized real estate and his vision and his passion for what he does. John, I've known John for some time. I follow. I pursued his career, his path, his growth, his vision and his evolution as a leader. And now c e o of Toronto Regional Real Estate board. And today we're going to talk about John's it as well. The premise of this podcast is we're in a pursuit of it and it being, what does it take to make, what does John DiMichele have? What is it? You've been successful, you've implemented change wherever you go, listening to your, I guess you're talking about your past in leadership capacity. You implement change wherever you go. Is there a single word or adjective, noun, pronoun that can identify what it is that John DiMichele has? What is it? Is there a single it?

(03:40):

Be humble, be modest.

John DiMichele (03:43):

It's a hard thing for me to not be that, but when I'm asked, this is a unique question. So I've never really had to answer it before, but I can tell you that I have out loud said that I've been able to, I've accepted something that I consider a gift and I take it seriously and it's a responsibility. I have ideas, Manny. I have ideas and I have some friends who I say, well, you know what is what I think this is going to happen then when it happens? One guy said, anytime you do something like that, I get the smack in the back of the head and I have a bit of foresight. I think I can sort of see it coming. So this climate stuff, I kind of see it coming. It bothers me, but every idea I've had where I've been able to sort of see it through or at least initiate it, some of them are pretty significant, and I won't mention them here because no one's going to believe in me, but they're true. But I can tell you that accepting and understanding what my strengths are and working within that framework, so I can't really use it one particular word. I think it comes down to understanding at some point who I am and what I'm able to bring to the table and then offering it up

Manny Andrade (05:26):

From my vantage point, knowing you and I know you in the capacity that our respective capacity right now, just leave it at that. But I've been following your career almost since you became vocal or affecting change in trap with trap or organized real estate. And I think the word that I would have for you would be leadership. You're not afraid to lead. You are a decision maker. You are instrumental and influential, and you're not afraid to voice your opinion or voice or make a stand or get in front of people and say, look, I'll take full responsibility going on, and here's why I'm doing what I'm doing. My word was fear. My word was fear. My grandmother is to scare the bejesus out of me and say, look, if you come home crying over this or that, I'm going to compound your problem. So I was afraid to fail. You're unafraid to lead.

John DiMichele (06:31):

Well, that's very nice of you to say. I think that is something that sometimes gets thrust upon me and it's certainly been thrust upon you. I see you as a leader as well. So maybe it's based on motivation, but I think you're talking about something. And again, you said behavioral psychology. And I remember taking my first industrial psychology course and trying to understand that and philosophy was a real important thing for me to try to wrap my mind around. I had a lot of questions, but the human condition, from what I understand, comes down to a couple of things. One, you have to know who you are. You have to know what you are too. A lot of times, okay, this is crazy and I hate doing this, but I have to throw it in there. Not the universe, but I believe in the universe concept and all that.

(07:43):

But I really believe it's people around you will start to tell you. They will start to ask you. They will start to move you. It's the people that I actually asked for things and it's one of my principles. If I want to do something, I go to someone. If I want to work with them, I go to them and say, if there's ever an opportunity for us to work together, I'd really like to try. So I want you to think about it. And I wouldn't ask once. If I really wanted something, I would ask 3, 4, 5 times over almost every time I would leave with that statement. And I have to say that there are times where I didn't even ask. People would come and say, you are going to do this. I was forced to do it.

Manny Andrade (08:35):

Persistence.

John DiMichele (08:36):

I think it's more about opening your mind because people will guide you because they can see leadership or they can see certain talents or they can see certain opportunities and the fit. There are a lot of smart people out there and they will kind of guide you. And if you look back, Manny, I bet you can pinpoint people that you probably want to thank over time your grandmother being one of them. And I think that that's true, that I actually have said that I have at least seven or eight people that I have to thank and it was never my idea to actually do it. They sort of thrust me into it. And here I am. So not one word. If I'm going to really use one word, I would say

Manny Andrade (09:24):

People. People great. I like it. I like it. I like it. We are building a real mannequin here. We're not building a mannequin. We have a mannequin and we're going to pin every guest's word. And we have courage, fear, and people. I like that. And you're right, my grandmother, my grandmother, undoubtedly, I'm an immigrant. I came here a very young age, but I was already shaped by my paternal grandmother. She was ferocious, loving, tender, but living in a third world sort of climate and environment, it's survival of the fittest. And my grandmother and the people that I work with, I agree with you. The people that are around you, they shape you. And then I guess you are their vessel, vessel for change. But you need courage. You need a lot. People are around everyone. But in order for somebody like you two, you need their love, support push. But you need to have something. You need to have that it. You need to have that drive. You need to have that willingness to stand up in front of everybody and sometimes take criticism, John, and you're quite familiar with that,

John DiMichele (10:40):

But I think you used the word and my only it's, it's a poster that I've had for a very long time. Two of them actually. One says, freedom lies in being bold. Because as a very shy person, and the other one that I have, I still have, it's in my gym at home and it's persistence. You mentioned the word right? You have to be persistent and you have to have in the back of your mind that no matter what, I'm not giving up. And as long as you don't give in and you don't give up whatever you choose, whatever path you're on, eventually you'll succeed. It's just a rule. It's a law.

Manny Andrade (11:27):

Yeah, it's a principle first. You don't succeed. Try and try again. A couple of little, I love that. John, listen, I don't want to get a little sappy here, but I admire the work that you do. And I know some of the things that, some of the accomplishments and not all I know, there's some stuff, some passions that you may still want to pursue. And that being behavioral science, neurology, I think that was something that you and I spoke about once and now you're grinning about it. I'll let you talk about it if you want, but I'm going to ask you greatest achievement. Do you have one? I mean, you brought stratus on as a chief, CIO for TRREB now, c e o, you have the vision organized real estate and preserving privacy and having other consumer friendly components associated with organized real estate, greatest achievement. Is that a fair question to ask? Is there a single thing that you would say? So

John DiMichele (12:37):

A lot of, when I think of greatest achievements, I think about my personal life, family and that sort of stuff. But if we're going to talk about work, I would say actually changing the way the M L Ss thinks now, which was rooted in the R F P that has brought us realm and actually having had that impact in North America, all my friends in the United States embraced the concept. The difference between us and the Americans is that they weaponize these things, right? So they weaponize these concepts. But I believe that modernizing what M L Ss says, still fighting the fight on it being the economic engine and what real estate brings to the table, to the economy, to homeowners and people in general. We need four things in life. We need air, we need water, we need food. And even if you have all those three things without shelter, you cannot survive.

(13:50):

And so we're in the shelter business, and that's a responsibility. So it's interesting that we try to make it easier for consumers to achieve their goals and dreams. And I think the M L Ss, the way we're moving that forward from a technical standpoint really is the future of home ownership. I also believe we have policy things that we do. For instance, we're talking about climate change now, and if we can actually move the dial a little bit on that, Manny, I think we've accomplished something. So for me, it's the tapestry of what we can accomplish over time right now. Yeah, sure. The hot thing is this is the M L s, but how do we actually, if I can help people long-term an accomplishment. So I think that realistically, does the M L SS have an impact? Of course it does. It's the engine. It's the actual engine that allows us to do our realtors to do their job. So if we can make it better in future facing, that's important to me. It's important to all of us. But I really believe that TRREB has become worldwide international.

Manny Andrade (15:14):

I'll say it, I'll say it. You are chief executive office of the world's best managed, best run, largest organized real estate board. And as it is, unless there's something on the planet or a stratosphere that we're not familiar with, Toronto Regional real estate board, run by you as our leader. And C E O is as good as it gets. And we're the envy of the Americans and Europeans. In terms of what you brought together with the, you mentioned propex and how you envision the impact of data and the impact it has on the consumer application of what we're doing together with the rest of organized real estate with truss. And now, so you're the leader of all this. You're the leader of the biggest board in the world, take a bow. What do you say to that? Right?

John DiMichele (16:16):

Saying that, but the fact is very simple. Without the board of directors, I cannot operate, and I think, I'm not just saying this. You've heard me say this before. We have a partnership, probably one of the most forward facing board of directors I've ever worked with that are connected. And they understand there's that period of time where you have technology. And I was talking to someone this morning saying that the people who were, and I think you and I talked about it as well, if you're not connected today, you're not going to be able to survive in this business. You have to accept the way things are moving. You have to accept how we're moving forward. But this is a partnership with the board, having the vision to understand, yeah, we need to move in this direction and allowing it to happen. And here we are, and I think we're at the beginning of something.

(17:10):

We're just at the beginning of something with what we're trying to accomplish in this area. Ultimately all the good things that we're doing, and with the help of our board of directors and bringing on these other boards into the system, this is becoming more transparent for members, transparent for the consumer, a better business proposition. It's going to have a long-term effect on how we do in the real estate industry. I really believe though that as much as people say you're the CEO, but this is truly a partnership and I think got a lot of work ahead of us. Good work, and I don't want to talk about advocacy at all, but I'm going to for a sec. I still don't understand how people, we have these policies and opposition and we talk about having to build 1.5 million homes. I think we're kidding ourselves here for letting no offense.

(18:10):

And it's not about that. But I'm saying, how can we have policies that say we have about a million people coming into the country, we're building 50,000 homes in Ontario. How are we going to sustain this? I think I see a wall and a cliff, so at some point in time, we need to get serious about these kinds of things. It's good news for realtors if there are homes, but if there are no homes and we're not, we're building 'em like honeycombs, I don't think that's going to help us. And when we talk about sustainability, somehow we have to weave these concepts into this discussion and get it going as soon as possible, but in a serious manner.

Manny Andrade (18:56):

You know what? We've come full circle with that conversation. I think the conversation needs to go from, as a realtor, I as a homeowner, to we as a society, we as an organization, whether you're talking about some of the things you're implementing with your board, and listen, if I can just touch on that, boards follow leaders in their vision. And if you had a not so great vision of what the future could look like for organized real estate, then maybe a board wouldn't follow you, but they follow you because they honour what you do and the way you think and the way you operate and how you create the vision for them.

(19:35):

I needs to leave. The average realtor doesn't understand the impact that we have as a profession, as an organization, how big the realtor real estate industry is in the economic engine of Ontario. I think in the American, I heard Brian Buffini last week, he was saying it's like 15 or 16% of the American economy south of the border. I think here our numbers are much higher than that, going from I to we, I know survival of the fittest, but I think we need to think bigger as an organization and understand the impact that we have and we can have with respect to sustainability and the future of housing and the impact that these million people coming to Canada every year are going to have on society. We need to prepare for it. Final question, John, who inspires you, motivates you? Who's your leader?

John DiMichele (20:38):

Who do I look to? I have to say I get inspiration from wherever it comes to me from. It's not necessarily personified. I think it really stems from, this is going to sound cheesy, but you go to conferences and everybody says if you leave with one thing, you've gotten something from that conference. So I can go back and pinpoint moments, but I think about it in terms of it's not who inspires me, but what inspires me. And I get inspired by the future. I get inspired by individuals in a moment. So someone will say something in a moment, and I think, my gosh, I never thought of that. Or there's that little glimmer of hope or opportunity or a nugget of knowledge that came through in this moment. And so really, again, it goes back to people.

(22:06):

Sure. Musically, we all have our favourites, actors, we all have our favorites, but what are they really doing? But if you look at, can we say that our politicians inspire us? I'm not sure I can say that, but if we have real leaders inspiration, I look at different people that lived thousands of years ago, Socrates, when you listen to some of the, or read some of the stuff that was said, that's not really common. You think, my gosh, that's thousands of years ago, this guy was thinking like this. So that connection over time of that thought, that's inspiring. The fact that it's lived this long, that it made so much sense that we still reflect on it today, and then all these nuggets along the way. There's just so much. And I don't know how much you read, but I'd be curious to ask you if you read, who do you read? Who inspires you?

Manny Andrade (23:20):

Wow, you want to turn this back on me? Yes. Yeah. You know what? Inspiration, I am not going to let you off the hook. I'm going to say in order for if you're in the conference, you're in the room. There are thousands of people in that room. Not everybody leaves or takes away what you take away. You're a visionary. You hear something, a little light bulb goes off in your head, literally goes off in your head and you implement it, whether it be the changes you brought to TRREB years ago and you continue to bring today. And there are things that we could talk about here that were not visionary and being able and then being a leader and not being afraid to implement and bring those things to life. And I hope that you stay on and continue to on the path that you're at, and continue to be empowered with the courage that has brought you to where you're at today and continue to lead, not fearlessly, but respectfully, with the courage to take and pursue and follow the vision, the path that you're on. I think you're a visionary. And if you spoke about science, and you and I had a conversation months ago about some things that this is a reference to your neighbor, something that you would like to change, and maybe you still have time to change that. You're a visionary, you're a person of influence. You're a great leader. I didn't answer your question, but I take nuggets from everybody. Maybe it's unfair for me to say this now because you said it. I get inspired by people like yourself.

(25:05):

I like to, sometimes it's a validation that I'm on the right path. Sometimes it's an opportunity for me to see things differently, but I follow leaders. Anybody that leads anything. I just read a cheesy little book by Mark Messier, nobody Wins Alone. And that's a very, very simple read, very basic, but it's fundamentally

John DiMichele (25:31):

So I think that in your response, I think because we have the opportunity and take the opportunity to actually go, you were talking about Brian Buffini, right? So if you're not in the room and you can quote the guy, you never would've heard it. Do you know what I'm saying? So I listened to so many tapes, so many different versions. I took the Floyd Wickman Sweat Hoggs course when I first started as a Century 21. I did the whole Brian Tracy World, Mike Fury, I go on and on here, okay, stop

Manny Andrade (26:09):

These Gen Zs and millennials are saying, Brian Tracy, who's that? Isn't he like a centre or

John DiMichele (26:14):

Something? Yeah, right. No, but think about it. Think about some of the original sales courses that everybody, Napoleon stuff. Think about all those things that have been repeated by different people over the years, but the same concepts with twists on them. I think the concept that, I may not have heard it correctly from one speaker, but it really spoke to me from another speaker, and it was basically the same thing. So you walk away, but if you're not putting yourself out there to try and learn, then you're just you. How are you going to learn if everything you're doing is centered around what you're doing? So you may learn by trial and error, but to expand your mind, to open up things, to come up with some ideas. It's got to be the influence of others who are speaking to you. They don't really speak at you.

(27:07):

These guys, they speak to you. And you can actually internalize it and say, you know what? This applies to me. And I always try to let people do it themselves. If you don't believe this, listen to your first set of motivational, whatever it is, whatever you need, go listen to your first and see it through. And I have little snippets that I go back to on a regular basis just to hear it again, to say, did I get it right the first time? And it's to keep me thinking, it's not about repeating it or actually following it to a T, it's just to get me to think what was he trying to get across there or what was she trying to say to me? And then there could be conflicting issues. So between how I feel like Dale Carnegie, so very first tape, when as a kid, someone said, you should listen to this. So I did. And I thought, what the heck? After that, it stuck with me and I learned that the richest person in the world has to be a damn good salesperson. So learn how to sell John. Right? So that kind of concept. Then I went through life thinking, I'm never going to be a salesperson. Sure enough, man, everybody's a salesperson every day. I used to, I realized at one point I'm selling my mother why I'm coming home at three o'clock in the morning.

Manny Andrade (28:43):

That's funny. That's funny. You raised a good point. When I do some of the training or read some of the things that I've read in the past, and I'll go 10, 12 times and some of the training programs that I do on a yearly basis here, every time I listen to the same person, I hear a slightly different message or something that I didn't pick up the first time or the 10th time. But staying active and staying sharp. And so reading, listening to different philosophies. Has the real estate industry outside of technology, has sales changed? In your opinion? What worked in the sixties and seventies? You mentioned Wickman, you mentioned Tracy, you mentioned Brian came after that. Has the training changed the implementation?

John DiMichele (29:34):

No. Have

Manny Andrade (29:35):

Things changed?

John DiMichele (29:36):

Sorry, they haven't. There's a technology. Yes, there's platforms, there's better ways to communicate. But if you're not getting belly to belly, if you're not, how many times we have to hear that stuff? You got to get face-to-face. You got to talk to people. I remember someone saying to me, it's either $10,000 or 10,000 people you choose. But I look at it purely from, you have to know who you are. But has it changed? Sure. I mean, there's better technology things become, I remember when we first implemented digital signatures. I'm never going to do that. Okay, well now they're all doing it. It's just part of life. But effectively, a buyer wants to buy, a seller wants to sell, and they need an expert. They need a professional, someone that'll help them guide them through that channel. Over time, now, technology has made it simpler, but still it's about the human connection.

(30:28):

And I remember there was a moment where this market really did change, and that was during Covid. And there was two things that were very blatant to me. One, real estate is an economic engine, and realtors are the fuel. And during Covid, if the market didn't do what it was doing at the time, I think we would've had a very serious economic challenge in the city and in the province. Because land transfer tax and all the taxes and all the work and all the impact of the economy was significant. But it also changed people because it drove them into a singular sort of life. You're in your office at home, you don't leave it. And it's hard to come back in many cases because you get used to the convenience of it. Well, this is a different market. Now, we would all agree that it's a different market.

(31:36):

And I'm putting my broker hat on because that, I did that for six years and I was a salesperson. That was hard. But if you're not out there, if you're not seeing people face to face, you're really not to get the turnaround that's required today in the marketplace. People need to get face to face. And just like anything, I went to see Brian Tracy because at the time, there was a program called Peak Performers. You remember that? So I went to, and Brian Tracy was there, never heard of him before. And he did this speech, and I'm telling you, I've never been so motivated by the end of that speech. And then it occurred to me, the guy was selling his system for his tapes for $199, but if he bought them today, there were $99. He had a thousand units, I'm sorry, 2000 units. There's 4,000 people in the room, 2000 units. He sold out for two hours. This guy sold $200,000 worth of product. And I went, I guess he is a pretty good salesperson, but he got in front of people,

Manny Andrade (32:52):

Right? It's not the message, it's the messenger. So the industry hasn't changed a lot. Technology platforms have, but this is about relationships, is what you're saying. It's about relationships. And I do agree. Covid changed. We are running out of time, but I'm going to leave you with this. Relationships also. You may not be the world's most interesting man, but you're very interesting, man. You mentioned musician, you play guitar, you sing, you're our c e O. You are a very accomplished person, John, and I think you should be honestly tip of the hat to you. I appreciate really, truly you coming here today in person. We are sharing a screen, but we're in the same room, and we could have done it virtually, but you and I are like-minded in that regard. So I appreciate you coming in, being super busy, swamped being a person of influence, being a person of interest right now, and headliner, I guess, if you will, and we're not going to get into that. But I appreciate your leadership. I appreciate everything that you're doing for organized real estate. Again, the board follows your lead because they believe in what you're doing and your vision. Keep at it. I trust that the courage will follow you wherever you go in whatever endeavors you take on in the future. Thank you so much for this today. I really, really appreciate it.

John DiMichele (34:19):

Thank you very much for having me, Manny. Really a pleasure.