The Graduate's Gamble: Education or Experience?

Navigating the crossroads of youth.

Isaac Soares, a bright architecture student, wrestles with the weighty decision between further education and diving into the workforce. His candid conversation with Manny Andrade in this episode dives into the societal pressures faced by young adults to chart out their entire lives prematurely.

They explore themes of privilege, opportunity cost, and the pursuit of ‘it’—that unique drive that propels individuals forward. Manny, with the wisdom of experience, reassures Isaac that the path to success is a personal journey, punctuated by patience and the courage to embrace one’s choices.

Together, they unpack the complexities of expectations, fears, and aspirations that define Isaac’s generation, offering a compelling glimpse into the universal mission for purpose and direction.

Listen For:
3:23 Privilege, Choice, and Fear of the Wrong Path
5:24 Generational Reflections: Then and Now
9:41 Following Society’s Success Script

Guest: Issaac Soares
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Transcript

Isaac Soares (00:00):

I feel that in our generation we need to have everything figured out from a young age. So by the time you're in high school, you got to know what degree you're going to do and then what you're going to do after that, and then what job you're going to have. And so there's definitely that pressure.

Manny Andrade (00:32):

So welcome to another episode of Coffee Beans and Real Estate. I'm excited again today to have a special guest, a young guest. Isaac is with us. He is a fan and sort of invited him to come in today and talk about something that I'll let him explain it, but the premise of the show, just want to remind everybody we talk about the pursuit of it here, and I'm going to ask Isaac what his it is, what is it? What is it? It is a differentiator. How one athlete differentiates from another, how one realtor differentiates from the other. What is that? What is that little it that somebody has that others may not? And we've had in the past, we've had foresight, we've had fear, strength, pivot, so many different adjectives or pronouns or nouns to identify that. So Isaac, I'm going to let you introduce yourself and maybe talk a little about how we got into being here today recording this. And I appreciate you coming in. So tell us who you are and how we got here.

Isaac Soares (01:42):

Well, thank you for having me today, Manny. I'm a fourth year architecture student, so in about two months I'm going to graduate and I'm sort of at a crossroads in my life where I need to make a decision about whether I want to continue with graduate studies or enter the workforce. And so Manny had actually reached out to me for a question relating to architecture. And then I told him how I was a listener and I enjoyed his podcast. And so he asked me if there were any topics that I would be interested in hearing about. And I told him that a lot of young people, including myself, experience some difficulties with knowing sort of which path to take and where to go. Because sometimes you want to work hard, you have that drive, but knowing which destination to point at is really difficult. And so I wanted to get sort of your opinion on that, Manny, some sort of struggles you went through and just try to get some clarity for myself and hopefully others.

Manny Andrade (02:49):

Wow. I think if you listen to the first podcast, you'll understand a little of my beginning and my struggles. I think I mentioned, and I'll reiterate this is my 23rd or 24th job, so do not feel alone in this, but I want to hear more about your struggles and what is it that you are finding? What's the challenge? You said crossroads, what are your crossroads? Where are you at right now?

Isaac Soares (03:23):

Well, I think that throughout my life I've been very fortunate. I've had parents who have supported me and really just told me, whatever you want to do, you can do. They supported me throughout university. And so I have a very privileged life where I can sort of pick whichever path I want to take. And that is amazing, but it's also very scary because I have a fear of maybe picking the wrong path. And so right now I am just wrapping up a four year architecture degree, and if I do want to become an architect, I'm going to have to do another three year. And then there's a bit of a intern period. And so the entire process is around nine or 10 years. So for me at this point, I'm sort of like, do I really want to do this? Because the time and energy I will need to put into becoming an architect, I could also put into different paths. And so there's sort of an opportunity cost to committing down that road even though it's something I want to do. It's, it's more just questioning, oh, do I want to go into project management or some other related field?

Manny Andrade (04:37):

Alright, so we have some content to work with here, and if you're a millennial and you're listening to this, I want to hear some feedback. So you mentioned support and privilege. If you had a 35-year-old here right now, Isaac, what would he or she tell us?

Isaac Soares (04:54):

Well, I think everyone's story is different. My dad immigrated didn't have much money. You just sort of do what you got to do. So there's going to be some 35 year olds who were privileged and who sort of could do what they wanted to do. And there's going to be some that couldn't. So I think every person is different. I also think 35 is still very young. You could still do whatever you want to do. You have so many years and I should probably tell myself that too.

Manny Andrade (05:24):

Yeah. So here's the thing. I think listening to you and you'll have an opportunity to listen on playback. You guys are young and you said 30 5-year-old. I have a 33-year-old daughter and a 29-year-old daughter, and they're still growing, maturing and evolving. And I'll never tell 'em that they're privileged, but don't tell 'em that they're privileged, but they are. And so you're right, everybody has their challenges. Every cohort, every generation, people going back 50, 60, 70 years ago coming off of wars or poverty or today's seniors or today's boomers will identify their challenges. And you have yours. I think one thing that you mentioned is going back post, continue education, get your PhDs. And one thing that comes to mind is very simply, why not? Why not just do it? And you had fear of failure. So what happens if you go out and you fail, you just change courses, change direction and go again? What's that fear born out of?

Isaac Soares (06:38):

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I would say something that's sort of influencing that decision is you're always looking to the people around you, your peers, your friends, and sometimes people who are taking other paths, let's say maybe with less education, they're sort of starting their life off faster, getting jobs, buying properties or whatever it may be. And so there's definitely a delayed gratification, which is something that I have to just accept. But it is hard seeing your friends buying nice cars and doing all these things and you are sort of going to be a student for a very long time. So yeah, I do agree with you though. I'm 21. If I do another degree, I'll be 24, 25, so it isn't really old at all. But yeah,

Manny Andrade (07:38):

And it's not old and you can continue. My youngest daughter, she's defending, she's wrapping up her PhD in about four or five months. She's 29 years old. She may go on to doctorate, who knows? And again, like you and she's a fringe. Yeah, she's a millennial. She's somewhere in between your cohort and the millennial and she has her friends going on. She's married now, but their family planning days are maybe ahead. I am not sure, but she's feeling the same sort of anxiety and seeing the same thing. I'll tell you, I felt those or have those thoughts, felt those feelings when I was 17 years old. And I'll share a little story. So in the first episode you heard how I came about becoming a realtor. I was in high school and a lot of my friends, so this is late seventies, so I'm aging myself and see if this relates to you.

(08:39):

A lot of my friends were working, I'm an immigrant, like your parents, a lot of my friends who were working and earning and they had nice cars and I'm going to school and I thought, well, this is bullshit. I want to go out and earn too. I don't want to get up in the morning and go to school. And I thought I'd give that a shot. And then I realized I'm getting up at five 30 in the morning to work and I'm not really happy with the results, so I went back to school in a hurry. But I have the same sort of thing. What if I just go out and one thing I can assure you of is that the years that you're going to spend in school, whether it be 25 or 30 when you get all your certifications, will be very gratifying. You just need to be patient. This sort of feeling or emotion that you feel, do you think that's something that prevails in your cohort and other maybe students in your class?

Isaac Soares (09:41):

Yeah, I would say so. I know a lot of my peers within the architecture faculty, the fourth years, a lot of them are in the same boat as me. They don't know if they want to go all the way and become an architect, but they're sort of just following a path of you do good in high school, then you go into your undergrad and you do good, you get some internships and then you go into grad school. So it's sort of this path that society deems as successful and moving in the correct direction, but there is a lot of questioning. So yeah, I would say so, yes.

Manny Andrade (10:20):

Yeah, it's difficult. One thing I'll tell you in 20 years, Isaac, when you look back to this day, this moment or the first time, the thoughts or the fears or the concerns entered your head, then what do I do 20 years from today? You're going to look back and you have one of two answers to yourself. A I'm glad I did what I did, which was continue with my studies or I regret that I didn't continue with my studies. And I think if we had a show of hands here today with the audience, everybody would say, Isaac, stay in school. Follow your path, your passion. If you're not having fun, then get the hell out. But if you're having fun and you're fulfilling, you feel fulfilled. I think you just have to tune out the rest of the noise and just pursue. Do you enjoy doing what you do?

Isaac Soares (11:12):

I do enjoy it. It is very intensive and stressful, but I think I could do another three years at school because school and the workplace are too completely different things as well.

(11:25):

How so? It's not school, you're assigned a site or some sort of problem and half of the project is doing research, you're researching about the people, the cultures, the ecology, the economics. It's a very multidisciplinary field and you're sort of making an argument and you're trying to, through a design, you're trying to almost improve a, and then at work you're sort of just assigned a task that the clients want and you're just sort of re-imagining that. So there's a bit less of sort of a criticality. And I do like both, right? Because sometimes in school it feels like you're just pushing and pushing and you're not really going anywhere. Sometimes you just want something very clear. But it is in that process, in that school process. It is very demanding. It's more artistic, it's a lot more drawings, it's a lot more about the presentation and then in work you're just sort of getting stuff done.

Manny Andrade (12:32):

Yeah, I think what you may lack is a little bit of patience, but it sounds like maybe in three years when you think you're done with school, you may just want to go back and get more certifications and then become world acclaimed for your work and your masterpieces. You said you have support, and do you still feel that like your mom and dad, they're saying, Isaac, you got it, you're a bum, get out of the house because you need to go out on your own, or are they still embracing your school and your studies?

Isaac Soares (13:04):

No, no. They're still very supporting and they just tell me whatever you want to do, do it and we'll support you. So they definitely want me to do my master's as well.

Manny Andrade (13:19):

Yeah, of course. As a parent I can imagine them wanting to do that. Do you feel a certain sense of pressure or obligation that you have to, because they've been so supportive, they've been so accommodating, they've provided everything for you, they've been patient and all the nice things. Do you feel like a pressure that you have to perform for them?

Isaac Soares (13:38):

Definitely. Yes. Your parents make so many sacrifices and it's like you don't want to waste their hard work and the things they had to give up. So it's almost like you want to be successful for yourself, but also for the people who have supported you throughout your life and your parents are the people who support you the most, or at least for myself.

Manny Andrade (14:03):

And that's a big load on your shoulders to feel that or to recognize that you're right. I think it's very mature of you because as a parent, that is something that we feel. Listen, my mom's 86 years old. I was in, let's call it rehab facility with her this morning and she's fine, but she was telling me how gratified she is for the sacrifice that she made. Now she needs to make certain decisions in her life, and as an immigrant, she came here to better herself, her way of life and that of her children. So today I heard that. So I feel what your parents are saying, they just want the best for you, and it's mature of you to recognize that. But I do feel the pressure. I do understand the pressure that is bestowed upon you on your shoulders because you can't let 'em down, right?

Isaac Soares (15:01):

Definitely. Yeah.

Manny Andrade (15:02):

Well, whatever the outcome, they'll love you regardless whether you become successful at this or you pivot and you become a real estate salesperson, but that sense of pressure, does it keep you up at night sometimes? Does it concern you?

Isaac Soares (15:18):

Not really. I feel that it is more the pressure that I assign to myself, but I feel that they, even if I go down the wrong path or I sort of get lost, I feel like they'll always support me. But I do have that pressure, but I feel like I try not to think of that too much.

Manny Andrade (15:42):

Yeah, that's called unconditional love.

Isaac Soares (15:44):

Yeah.

Manny Andrade (15:45):

Tell me about some of your friends. Do you feel that mental health issues sort of creep in with either kids in your field, but it's more specifically your generation? Do you feel that that pressure, that sense of anxiety or that performance pressures, do you think it creeps in and is somewhat destructive in some cases?

Isaac Soares (16:08):

What I would say is that I feel that in our generation we need to have everything figured out from a young age. So by the time you're in high school, you got to know what degree you're going to do and then what you're going to do after that and then what job you're going to have. And so there's definitely that pressure and I feel that I would appreciate how you said you did a bunch of jobs before you landed on one. I would want to do that, but in today's world where everything's so expensive and you feel all these pressures on you, it's almost like you need to figure things out really quick. And so you'll see people in high school and they're already stressed about when they're 25 years old, what their job is going to be, right? You need to make that decision early on, especially with a lot of jobs now that you need more and more education and qualifications. Just trying it out is a big time commitment and you could delay your life if you just want to try out being an architect for example, you're going to spend 10 years, so you can't really do that with a bunch of jobs. So I feel that my generation, we sort of need to figure things out really quickly from a young age because things take so long.

Manny Andrade (17:28):

Isaac, I'm going to tell you this. I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm not going out on a limb. This is an easy call for me. I think you are great and you're going to be great. You're smart. But I'm going to ask you, I'm going to challenge you a little bit here because you brought me in. So I'm going to say I did all those jobs because, so I had a 16-year-old who had to provide for him and his family. His dad passed and he couldn't finish high school. What's he going to say when he hears you say that you're feeling pressure and you're at a crossroads in your life. And he was 16 years old and he was actually 15 and he had to go to work and no thought of continuous education, none of that, the pressure on that, and he's now 60 years old, his pressure different than yours.

Isaac Soares (18:22):

Oh, his is much more intense. His is much more intense. But I think everyone's situation is different. Even people today, there's still people who have that, I'm sure intense pressure. Like I said, I'm very fortunate, so I don't feel that in any way. I feel a bunch of opportunity. That's what I feel. And for me, it's more about picking which opportunity to take. But for people like your friend, I think that they needed to do things out of necessity, and that's very different. Choosing to do something versus having to do something. And so I don't think you could compare those pressures. I'd much rather have my problem than sort of his,

Manny Andrade (19:11):

You're right. And that's a really, really good answer. He had no choice. Where sometimes you're just thrown in the fire and you have to do whatever. In your case, you have to make those decisions and you're afraid to make the wrong decision. I don't think you'll make the wrong decision. I'm pretty confident because whatever decision you make will be the right decision for you, but you're right, completely different pressures. If I had task you to ask yourself to evaluate or assess where you're at right now, on a scale of one to 10, would you say that you're successful and one to 10, where would you grade yourself?

Isaac Soares (19:54):

I would say in the things that, in the goals that I've set up until this point, I'd say I'm an eight, but my goals are constantly evolving. So I don't think in the grand scheme of life I'm at a eight, but in the things that I've tried to pursue and accomplish, I've been pretty good at the things that I've

Manny Andrade (20:17):

Done. Does it scare you sometimes to embrace that success? Do you feel like, Hey, I'm doing well. I'm here, I'm in school. I have long-term goals and aspirations and expectations. Does that scare you a little bit.

Isaac Soares (20:36):

What I do feel is sometimes I feel like an imposter imposter syndrome, so I'll accomplish something, but I don't feel like a top student, even though I'm getting the marks of a top student. So there is definitely that sort of denial, but then I don't want to also have a high ego. Confidence is a very tricky thing where you want to accept success, but you don't want to sort of let it get to your head.

Manny Andrade (21:09):

It is a fine line. It is a fine line between being humble enough to recognize your accomplishments. And it's like when somebody says thank you, and it's like, oh, no problem. No, just you're welcome. You did something nice. Somebody paid you a compliment. Just be humble, be gracious and accept it. I see that I asked you that, and I'm glad you mentioned imposter syndrome, but we all feel that. I think at times when you see some success, we're afraid of, we have this internal self-destruct mechanism that says, oh, something's going to go wrong. Now I just scored two hat tricks in back-to-back games, and now I'm sure I'm going to go six games without scoring or I just washed my car. I know it's going to rain. That's sort of mentality, but that's normal. I think it's normal. And based on your answers, I'm not a psychologist, I'm a real estate broker, by the way folks, if you're listening to this kind of stuff.

(22:08):

But I am a parent and I have children a lot younger or older than Isaac. And this is interesting because I, I'm going to tell you that when I was 20 years old, I had the same fears about letting my parents down. My mom is 86 and again, I was with her this morning. She still monitors me. She still worships for me. She still puts pressure on me. I have to be the best man possible. Otherwise I feel like I let her down and I think I passed that on to my kids and I think that's normal. So I don't know if there is a lot unique. I know your cohort and doing some research before this. I got wind of some study that was done in Australia. Typically your cohort, like you said, all the support's been there, privilege, everything's been there, maybe you've never been told suck it up or toughen up different than most other cohorts where things are different things, but it's privileged to be privileged. It's okay to be privileged. Your dad and mom worked for it, and they're happy to provide for you. So just embrace it.

Isaac Soares (23:26):

Yeah, I definitely think our generation overthinks, sometimes you just got to do stuff. And that's what I try to tell myself too. If I'm just stuck, just move forward. But it's hard.

Manny Andrade (23:41):

Yeah, it is. Listen, we have signs on the wall. You just have to, if you asked me for advice, we have signs here in my office, in our admin offices, it's why the hell not? And just get her done. And if you do it, and if you don't like it, then you pivot in talking to realtors, we actually have a program coming up. I'm not going to get into it too much. We're looking at pairing rookies with veterans for instance, right? Then the question that comes up often is, well, what if I don't like the veteran I'm assigned? Or what if I don't like the rookie or a mentee as we call? Well then when you pivot and we'll find somebody else, it's not. So that fear is prevalent everywhere. And I think it's healthy Isaac, because in listening to you and watching you, and it seems that it's worked well for you.

(24:35):

So I'm going to ask you coming in here, we spoke about the it and you've had 25 minutes to think about it. So it was fear. My grandmother, my paternal grandmother instilled I couldn't fail. Okay, so there's something that will resonate with you. If I came home crying because somebody beat me up or something, I was told not to, I was told, suck it up, don't come home crying, just go fix it and God bless her. God bless that woman. So it was fear. I think a lot of what I do is based on fear of failure. Do you have an it? Do you something that do drives you?

Isaac Soares (25:17):

Well, I would premise my answer that I don't think I have a single it. I will tell you one that I think is sort of my dominant, but I think it has evolved throughout time and also at different magnitudes. So I would definitely say that fear, curiosity and some other motivators have been my it. But right now, I think one of my main its is validation and self validation in particular. I feel that when I have a challenge or a goal, there's always a side of me that says, oh, Isaac, you can't do that. That's not for you. And then there's a side that's saying, well, what if maybe you can do that? And so it is just trying to prove that positive side. And sometimes things don't work out. Sometimes the pessimistic side is right, but I'm just trying to prove to myself that I could sort of be a better person, accomplish different things, reach my goals, sort of prove myself wrong in a way. So validation.

Manny Andrade (26:29):

Validation is a great word, and we didn't have it. We have a TAL mannequin upstairs in a mezzanine where you're at and we have all these words attached. And the thing, it's for everybody. It's different. It's different for everybody. It may be different for you, but overall validation's a good one. And it seems to be working for you. And it's okay to fail. Isaac, you're young, it's okay to fail. It's okay. You hit the post once in a while. Sometimes baseball player, you go up and you swing and you miss, and you just line up again and you go at it again. I am comforted in the shirt. I have no doubt that you will reach your goals. I have no doubt you'll achieve whatever you want to achieve. And it makes my heart warm to know that the next, our future is in the hands of people like yourself and your generation.

(27:25):

The millennials think that they're going to conquer the world. They may not. And because your cohort and young people like yourself will have a say in that matter as well. So Isaac, listen. I don't know if we fixed anything here today, but I'm going to tell you as a parent and as a human being and as a leader of many that I really enjoyed listening to this dialogue and your insights on this, and maybe there's a little bit of wisdom here or something you're hearing yourself in the playback that you can say, you know what? I think I'm okay. I'm doing well. And I think your mom and dad will attest to that. So I want to thank

Isaac Soares (28:07):

You. Thank you so much, Manny. My pleasure. Thank you. It's been very enriching and I do feel this has helped me a bit. It's nice to hear just different perspectives, and that's what helps, right? Hearing what other people have been through, and yours has been very enriching to me. So thank you. Well,

Manny Andrade (28:28):

I'm glad there's a takeaway for you. And one day you'll be in a position where you can maybe help shape somebody else and just reassure 'em or set 'em straight, whatever the case may be. Thanks again, and for those tuning in, and I'm glad that you're a fan because I didn't know that we had 20, 20-year-old Gen Zs following us, but I'm glad to hear it and hopefully we can get some of your friends to tune in. Listen, and it, you're not embarrassed now to share this with your friends, are you?

Isaac Soares (28:59):

No, no, of course not.

Manny Andrade (29:02):

This is a pretty good show, and I think people like it. So if you're listening to it, you like it, tune in, share it, like it, and it let us know how you feel. Thanks for listening.

Isaac Soares (29:13):

Thank you.