Midlife Marauders

Suge Knight, Midlife Fame, and Tracee Ellis Ross' Diss on Middle-Aged Men

• Will & Max • Season 2 • Episode 3

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Diddy heads to court, with Suge Knight weighing in as an unexpected pundit. Marvel’s Thunderbolts are shaping up to be the midlife Avengers—while Pedro Pascal (The Last of Us) and Walton Goggins (The White Lotus) prove that middle age is a prime time for stardom. Meanwhile, Will pushes back on Tracee Ellis Ross’ recent remarks about toxic masculinity among middle-aged men.

Thanks for listening--keep on marauding!

SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to Midlife Marauders with Will and Max.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't think we can escape Mr. Sean Puffy Combs, a.k.a. Diddy. He's all over my feed and at the trial and everything.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

What are your impressions?

SPEAKER_03:

You know, I think the big news is Cassie taking the stand. You know, she's pregnant. She's a very sympathetic character and just, you know, I think... I don't know. I just feel like, how did he get away with this for so long? Right. Like, and you know, for somebody who's so brilliant, how could you be so stupid or think that this wouldn't come out? Right. So that's always kind of in the back, back of my mind, like, how is this happening that it's only now coming out? Right. Or, only recently coming out. Um, and I guess, you know, people been paid their hush money and, um, you know, Cassie was young when she was involved with him. And so she probably wasn't thinking straight, you know, but I just think that he, you know, maybe, maybe things have changed because, you know, in this day and age with social media, it's easy, like for rumors to spread. Right. So maybe he was under able to keep it under wraps because, um, Social media wasn't as prevalent back then. But anyhow, I just I just am amazed that it's been kept under wraps for so long. So how about you? I mean,

SPEAKER_00:

well, for me, it's like you've you've heard of tall tales, some things in the background, you know, nothing that you could substantiate, you know, rumors, write it off is like. Just Hollywood talk, rumors. Somebody's got

SPEAKER_03:

beef with somebody else and they're making shit up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that sort of thing. People will exaggerate things and that sort of thing. But people like 50 Cent have been talking about Puffy for a long time, about how he's just a different cat and he's a little off and can be a little weird and that sort of thing. And you just kind of like... you know, that's not coming from credible sources, so to speak. So, you know, and, and, and, and it's like, it's almost humorous until it's not until it's like thrown into your face, you know, obviously with the video of him beating Cassie, that's when it really came to a head. But I'm not, I'm not surprised. I mean, you talk about like how he, How could he get away with this? I mean, it's money, power, respect. And I think it's hubris on his part. You know, people think they're above the law.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And, you know, he's so well-connected. I'm sure that, you know, there's some cover-ups and some hush money and some payoffs and that sort of thing. But, you know, it's all coming to a head. I mean, I guess it's not

SPEAKER_03:

uncommon, like you're saying, with like–

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, these kind of scandals and these kind of things, you know, they go on for years. And then, you know, when you finally hear about them, like, oh my gosh, how did that last so long? And it's like, well, that's what they are. You know, you never really... hear about the short-term scandals, the two-week things. These are things that have gone on for years and years and years.

SPEAKER_03:

And I guess he has no other choice than to plead not guilty, but come on. Does he really think that everybody was just going along

SPEAKER_00:

with it because they

SPEAKER_03:

enjoyed it, enjoyed getting beat and

SPEAKER_00:

drugged? Here's the thing. I don't follow the trial that closely. It's not like I'm a court reporter or anything, but It's like all I've heard so far is the domestic abuse stuff, right? But he's on trial for conspiracy. Right, sex trafficking. And moving

SPEAKER_03:

people

SPEAKER_00:

across borders, right? Across states, I mean. Right, right, right. So I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on those type of deals.

SPEAKER_03:

What I thought was interesting about the case is when all of a sudden you hear Suge Knight you know, chiming in, talking to, to Chris Cuomo, who, you know, you haven't another midlifer who you haven't seen in a bit, but it was just funny that he had become this analyst and given his side of the story and talking about how Trump is going to pardon Diddy, which could happen, you know, because, you know, Trump likes his celebrities. But then also Suge Knight, trying to maybe coming up with a way that he can get out, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, and you got to take all this with a grain of salt with him. I mean, obviously they've, they've got beef, long standing beef, but you're right. It is, it is interesting to see these new sources going to him for his opinions and weighing in on what's going on with that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's wild. It's wild all the way around. Yeah. Have you had a chance to see the Thunderbolt movie yet?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I saw it a few weeks ago with my kids. And a lot of midlifers in that. I was actually surprised at how many midlifers have major roles in that. David Harbour. It

SPEAKER_00:

is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, Julia Louis- Go ahead and run them off. She's older. Sebastian Stain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think he's early 40s. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to believe that- You already said David Harbour.

SPEAKER_03:

Winter Soldier is- A midlifer.

SPEAKER_00:

He's a baby midlifer, but yeah, he's up there. Yeah, it's– well, did you and your kids like the movie?

SPEAKER_03:

So one of my kids said it was a 6.5. I think maybe I would have given it a 7. Okay. I feel like there's a lot of similarities with other movies, you know, and I think they were really– Yeah. Yeah. trying hard to make it funny with, you know, you, when it's always a little bit tricky when you have like people doing accents, you know, and so David Harbor and, um,

SPEAKER_00:

Florence Pugh.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Florence Pugh. Yeah. Who's actually, she's a great actress, I think. Great actor. So, but I think it's always, I don't know. I get distracted by that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um, I thought it was a pretty good movie. The problem is, um, I was seeing reviews. I actually waited a little bit longer than I normally would to watch one of these movies. I am a Marvel head, full disclosure. But I think when you're seeing commercials for it, it's the best Marvel movie since Endgame. They keep pushing that. Don't put that pressure

SPEAKER_03:

on me. I know. Who's saying

SPEAKER_00:

that? Yeah. But again, it was good to see the midlifers that you mentioned in the movie. It's funny to me, though, because I've thought that, you know, we're coming upon a time where they're trying to usher in a younger generation of actors playing these roles. And I think we are going to see that. But again, they, you know, they have to rely on the older established stars before they can get that going. You know, even with the. The movies that are coming out, the Doomsday movies and all that stuff, you know, they're bringing back the old X-Men cast. Not even the younger one, but we're talking about like Ian McKellar and the guy that played Patrick Stewart. But yeah, they're bringing back those guys. You know, obviously Robert Downey Jr. is back involved now as Dr. Doom. So at some point, we're going to have to slide these guys out of the way and get some newer stars in there. But I guess this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03:

It's good for us as midlifers because it shows that there's still good roles out there. You still can be the star. You still can draw an audience. So it's actually positive in a lot of ways. And we've talked about some other series, like TV series that are streaming, where there's a lot of midlifers who are kind of in the biggest role of their lives now. In midlife.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Yeah, no, I agree with you. The point I wanted to make was the problem with these movies is ever since Infinity War and Endgame. Uh-oh, you're going to break it down. Those were the apex Marvel movies, right? The highest grossing, the highest rated movies. And then these other movies that come after it, they're fine. But then when you know that there's another big event like Infinity War and Endgame that's on the horizon, to me, it kind of lessens the values of these movies that precede that, in my opinion. Wait,

SPEAKER_03:

so the Thunderbolts come after? They did, right? Because everybody had disappeared, right? Because of... All the old ones are gone, right? So they're the new...

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Yeah. They're the new Avengers. But they're bringing back all the old established people for the Doomsday thing, which is the equivalent of Infinity War and Endgame. That's the big, big, global, impactful... cosmic thing that's coming around the corner. So I think these movies, although they're good, when people can see that, oh, the next big thing is coming, I think it kind of devalues these other movies that have to fall in between. Yeah, and at a certain point, it's

SPEAKER_03:

like, how many more can you do before people stop

SPEAKER_00:

watching? I think it's been over 30 Marvel movies so far, so it's not going away.

SPEAKER_02:

So

SPEAKER_03:

other midlifers who are, you know what I was saying, at the peak of their career, what about Pedro Pascal and Last of Us? I mean, he's 50, you know, he's been around for a bit, but, you know, I think he really, I think his peak is now, right? Don't you think this is his peak? biggest role. We have Mandalorian, which is big too, but Narcos. But I think this is definitely one that appeals to a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, don't forget, he's also going to be Mr. Fantastic. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_03:

But that's what I'm saying. It's actually very interesting, right? It wasn't like he was a younger star, like a Brad Pitt, who just kept making movies. It's like he didn't really become famous until midlife. And he's still... you know, I think a huge draw.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But these roles, I agree with you a hundred percent, but these roles are of men in their midlife years. So it works perfectly for him. You know, it's not like they had to, to, to tailor it for him. No, these, these, these people that he are playing out in the Mandalorian, I don't know, but you know, Joel from the last of us and Mr. Fantastic, they're, they're, Their characters are his age. Right,

SPEAKER_03:

but they could have picked anybody else his age, right? There's

SPEAKER_02:

a lot of actors

SPEAKER_00:

out there. They could have. Yeah, of course. Shout out to him. These are roles of a lifetime. I salute him. So far, he's doing a great job. Yeah, and he's also

SPEAKER_03:

all around on social media, having fun, wearing funny outfits or You know, super stylish thing. So I think he's definitely got this playful young side to him, younger side. So maybe that keeps him current, too, and appealing to younger audiences.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. Yeah, I think he's doing a bang-up job. Are you watching The Last of Us? Have you been keeping up with

SPEAKER_03:

it? I haven't watched it. Was it yesterday's episode? But I've been watching. And I kind of have this love-hate relationship with Last of Us because it, like, scares the crap out of me. But then I'm like, oh, I can't stop, right? I got to see what happens, right? It's so violent.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm not, like, you don't play the game, do

SPEAKER_03:

you? What's that?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I never played the game. That doesn't make it exhilarating and titillating that it scares you and excites you at

SPEAKER_03:

the same time? I don't know. I mean. I think there's definitely the human element to it, you know, because I like drama. So if it didn't have the relationships, I probably wouldn't. If it was like pure horror, pure gore, I definitely wouldn't like it. But there's the story to it, which I do like. And I have to say that Pedro Pascal is a big draw, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Max, I know we gave... Pedro Pascal, his flowers. But I also want to give some flowers out to Walton Goggins.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Walton. I want to give him his flowers. You know, he's getting a lot of acclaim now for his role in The White Lotus. But I've always been a huge, huge fan of his. He's our age. He's in his 50s, right?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I think early. Let me look that up because he was on SNL. It was really funny because

SPEAKER_00:

he's a sex symbol now, right? 53. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 53. Shout out to him. He talks about being a sex symbol now with receding hair and all this other stuff, which made me laugh. Yeah, that was funny. No, he's been doing this thing for a while. He was–

SPEAKER_03:

He's another one, right? He's been acting for a while. His name is Pedro Pascal, but really is kind of hitting his stride or his peak in terms of people knowing him. Right. Becoming a household name now.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, yeah. But yeah, he's been acting since the early 90s, late 80s. Yeah, for a while. But he's always been like these supporting characters. I remember him in The Shield. I don't know if you ever watched that back in the day. I

SPEAKER_03:

did not.

SPEAKER_00:

But- I remember him in The Shield. He did a good job there. And then he started appearing in some Quentin Tarantino movies. I remember him in Django Unchained.

SPEAKER_03:

I saw him in Justified. I didn't watch all of the seasons of Justified, but he was really good in Justified.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, Hateful Eight. And then he started doing... shows with... What's my man's name from Eastbound and Down? I can't think of it

SPEAKER_02:

right now.

SPEAKER_00:

But he did... He's in The Righteous Gemstones. If you haven't seen that, it is hilarious.

SPEAKER_03:

Is it Danny?

SPEAKER_00:

Danny McBride. There you go. And he was also in Vice Principals as well, too. And there's also that one... What's that

SPEAKER_03:

one that was on HBO recently? Let me look it up. You know, where he plays the... Like the guy back for the skeleton guy. Have you seen that one?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that wasn't HBO. That was Prime. Fallout. Yeah, Fallout. Fallout, yes, yes. Also a very good series. Very violent, too. I think season two is coming out later this year, so I'm really looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so see, that's proof, too, right? All these big roles he has are in his 50s, early 50s.

SPEAKER_02:

let's

SPEAKER_03:

talk about tracy ellis ross i mean this was in the news a while ago when she did some podcasts with michelle obama but she talked about not wanting to date people her age and she's in her 50s right

SPEAKER_00:

yes she's definitely in her 50s uh well okay That's fine. But her reasons were that men, and she said she was generalizing, that she said men her age are steeped in toxic masculinity.

SPEAKER_03:

So what do you think that means?

SPEAKER_00:

Now, just, I don't know. Being too old-fashioned? Being too traditional? Right, kind of. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Backwards. Conservative, maybe. Maybe like thinking about roles in the household, like expectations.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. As a man of that age, I mean, I take offense to that. Well, she did admit she was generalizing,

SPEAKER_03:

right? So she was just saying in general, men her age.

SPEAKER_00:

In general, that means more than... Right. And that

SPEAKER_03:

could be true. You know, people are, you know, you grow up in a certain age or decade and you're going to have those. I definitely learned a lot or I thought, you know, seeing my parents, how they interacted with each other impacted me in my marriage. Right. And so I think that's what she's saying is that. men her age kind of picked up on these things from their parents who were of the older generation where it was like the woman stayed at home or the woman cooked you know and cleaned and so I think that's what she's saying or like the man has to protect the woman or maybe the man is intimidated by because she's a very successful she has a successful career right she's very independent so maybe that's what she's saying

SPEAKER_00:

yeah but I again I'm struggling with the words toxic masculinity um I don't necessarily know what that means. It's one of

SPEAKER_03:

those things that people throw around. I think

SPEAKER_00:

it's a nebulous term. You know what I mean? I don't know if I could define it either. It's being old-fashioned. What does masculine mean? In

SPEAKER_03:

that sense, it's meaning masculine is a negative thing. It's like a caveman.

SPEAKER_00:

You're a caveman. That's like saying being feminine is a negative thing. Right. It

SPEAKER_03:

comes with certain ideas, I'm sure. Anyhow, so do you not agree? So you don't agree with it? Do you find it offensive because you are her age and you don't feel like you're overly traditional? Or do you feel like you have a similar personality to somebody who's 10, 20 years younger than you? I mean, you date women who are younger, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yes, I do.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's not because I feel women my age are, well, there's also aspects of availability as well, too. Women my age generally aren't super available. You

SPEAKER_03:

think? Are you saying like women, don't you think there's a lot of women who are single, maybe divorced? In

SPEAKER_00:

their 50s? Yeah. No. And I mean, are we going to turn this into a dating podcast? Because we can. You know, I'll put it this way, Max. Here we go. One of my buddies, I said this one time. He said he was asked to describe his type, right? He says his type is whoever likes me.

SPEAKER_03:

Aw. He

SPEAKER_00:

said that seriously? Seriously. And I'm rolling with that narrative. Now, obviously, there's limitations and barriers and that sort of thing. But again, my type is whoever likes me. I tend to like women that like me, right? Of course. You're not going to like somebody who doesn't like you

SPEAKER_03:

unless you like being

SPEAKER_00:

ignored or something. Right. But it's not like I'm looking for this type of person. Right, right. You know when you know, right? Whether it's race. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But generally, it's not me honing in or pinpointing somebody and saying, I want her. It's usually, for whatever reason, either she tells me or I find out, hey, I like you. So then this person becomes... attractive to me. Okay. Now, I don't know if that's because of age or whatever. It sounds like you're in

SPEAKER_03:

elementary school.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey, it does. She likes me, so I like her. Yeah, so now I like her. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? It just makes life easy for me. But listen, Tracy, I don't like the way you generalized men my age. It is, that's your experiences. You can do that. I think there are some fine men out there my age, including myself, who would love to treat a beautiful woman, a successful woman yourself, as a queen that you should be treated. I hate the fact that you generalized us as being toxic, masculine individuals. But I think it's also somewhat of a I think it's also somewhat of a cop-out, too. I'm not going to lie to you, Max.

SPEAKER_03:

You mean like a defense mechanism? Maybe people aren't

SPEAKER_00:

chasing her? Yeah, I think she just likes younger men, and that's fine. Right,

SPEAKER_03:

she could just be attracted to younger men. You know, some people have a type, right? I'm attracted to. She could just be attracted to younger.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct, correct. Yeah, it may even be beyond a physical attraction. She likes their energy, the way they treat her, blah, blah, blah, you know? And I think that's the way she should have addressed it. I don't think she should have torn us down. You know, she's saying all this from the experiences she's had with men. And who's to say how many men she's had that are our age. What's the sample size? But just say what you like. Don't tear down a whole spectrum

SPEAKER_03:

of men. Well, maybe

SPEAKER_00:

she's had enough bad experiences.

SPEAKER_03:

Maybe she's had enough bad experiences with men her age that have made her think it. Yeah, of

SPEAKER_00:

course we have. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah. And I'm not going to negate or minimize what she's gone through, you know, and she can say and do whatever she wants. So I just think that she could have done a better way of said it a better way without tearing, tearing us down. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Midlife Marauders. Follow us on social media and wherever you stream your podcast.

SPEAKER_03:

We also want to give a big shout out to Frank Moyne at Moyne music for providing the beats for our theme music and to our listeners. Keep on marauding and see you next time.