Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 71: Rethinking Environmental Policies with James Bountrogiannis
What if mainstream climate narratives are misleading us? Join us for a thought-provoking episode of Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast as we welcome our special guest, James Bountrogiannis, who shares his compelling journey from Greece to Canada and his professional insights into the world of IT. Together, we uncover personal stories of our grandfathers' migrations, weaving a rich tapestry of history and storytelling that invites you to connect more deeply with the natural world. James’s unique perspective offers a fresh look at environmental challenges, encouraging us to question conventional wisdom.
Our exploration doesn't stop there. We dive into controversial critiques of climate change alarmism and the effectiveness of carbon taxes. Is it time to rethink our approach to environmental policies? From dissecting Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" to discussing the role of water vapour and historical climate cycles, we challenge the status quo with scientific critiques and alternative perspectives. Discover the potential of natural resources like the poplar hybrid tree in carbon conversion and the importance of understanding natural processes, including wildfires, as we debunk sensationalist narratives.
As we navigate the complexities of oil refining, gasoline surplus, and pollution solutions, our conversation shifts to innovative strategies for CO2 reduction. James sheds light on the global and economic dynamics of environmental policy, with stories of resistance and breakthrough attempts in unlikely places. We reflect on the influence of media on extreme weather perceptions and the transformative power of planting trees. Delve into the diverse perspectives that shape our understanding of climate issues and the importance of creative thinking in crafting sustainable solutions. Tune in and be inspired to rethink, reimagine, and reconnect with the world around us.
Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's Favorite Fishing Show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right Every Thursday, Ang and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?
Speaker 2:Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 3:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors From athletes.
Speaker 2:All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth and Turk and all the Russians would go fishing To scientists. But now that we're reforesting- and everything.
Speaker 3:It's the perfect transmission environment for life.
Speaker 4:To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it.
Speaker 1:And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are. Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by Indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world.
Speaker 5:On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode, and hopefully we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy. Okay, to all our listeners, we want to thank you very much for the time you take to listen to our podcast. You know those, of course, all across Canada and the States and those individuals in Switzerland and Ghana and Trinidad and Tobago. And, as always, if you have any questions or you'd like to hear a special podcast about anything special, let us know.
Speaker 5:We try to get that information out. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time, but we do try to work to get you the answers. It's just difficult to find expertise in some of the specific areas that people are looking for, but we do do the best we can because we appreciate hearing from you. But we do do the best we can because we appreciate hearing from you. And today we have a special guest and James is going to talk to us about climate impact and everything that's happening with the climate, maybe from a different perspective of what everybody's used to hearing from. Welcome to the program, james.
Speaker 6:Thank you very much, Jerry. A pleasure to be with you on this podcast.
Speaker 5:Yeah, no problem. It's great to get individuals like yourselves out and tell us a bit about yourself, James. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? What's your background? That kind of stuff.
Speaker 6:Okay, my parents were landed immigrants from Greece, which is an interesting story. My grandfather was a boat person from Asia Minor during the trouble 100 years ago 100 or so years ago and then he migrated to the island of Crete and my father was born on the island of Crete and he came to Canada in the mid fifties. And that was a real bonus for me, because I got to be born Canadian and we have a beautiful country, a wonderful country, and I'm delighted. I grew up, I was born and raised in Hamilton and I came to the Oshawa area Oshawa-Whitby area about 35 years ago, so I'm not a spring chicken, as you can tell, and I worked in IT. I worked in quality assurance. I've worked a lot of different type of kind of techie jobs and I'm currently working for IT implementation. I'm a project coordinator for a techie company in Markham. Now about the climate thing can I start talking about climate?
Speaker 5:Well, just before we get into that, you mentioned about your grandfather and I don't think I ever mentioned my grandfather on the program yet, and it might be that you mentioned grandfathers might be a good opportunity, because my grandfather came from well, at the time the boundaries changed back and forth but it was a small town outside the capital of Poland at the time, and this is on my mother's side and her mother my mother's mother. So my baba was from Ukraine. And now the interesting story with my grandfather, how he came to Canada, was during the Russian Revolution, and I don't know, james, if you're familiar with it. There was two revolutions. There was a spring and then there was the fall revolution in Russia, and in the spring revolution it came in, and of course we don't have the communication networks that they have now. Then, back then, and I recall my grandfather telling me he says, you know, he says after the first revolution they came in and they said whose dog is that? And my grandfather said that's not my dog, that's not your dog, because that dog is catching rabbits owned by the country. And my grandfather told me this he used to have a hound that would go out and catch rabbits and bring them back and that's what they used to eat. And he said that's not your dog. He said whose dog is it? And he said I don't know whose dog that is. So the guards took out his gun and shot my grandfather's dog in front of him. Now, that was the spring revolution.
Speaker 5:And then, in the fall, then the communist rode in on horseback and my grandfather, who was the chief constable in the small town at the time, was haying in the hayfield during the revolution. And they rode in and they said you know where's the chief constable? And his brother said well, he is. Why? Of course, not realizing what was taking place, that the second revolution was in full swing at that time, because it was pretty fast and pretty quick. And so they took their swords out and went to cut my grandfather's head off, and when we buried my grandfather he still had the scar on his shoulder, three, four inches down where the sword went in, and the only thing that saved his life was his brother lifted his hay fork and stopped the sword from going any deeper. And then his brother argued with the communists at that time that he was a good man and deserved to live. And what are you doing? Why this.
Speaker 5:Well, my grandfather crawled back to the house where his sister and mother sewed them up, so they followed the blood trail, then in to find him and when they came to the front door they burst in.
Speaker 5:But my grandfather went out the back door and when he went out the back door it started to rain, and it started to rain heavily and my grandfather spent the night hiding in the graveyard while they searched the town to kill him, hiding in the graveyard while they searched the town to kill him.
Speaker 5:After that he left and then he joined the fight to fight against the Germans in World War I. He was captured by the Germans and served his time working in the Vatican for the Pope and then after that he came to Canada and rode the rails and he told me stories about riding on top of the boxcars with all the people to work the farms out west, the wheat fields out west, because he was used to working wheat fields and things like that and eventually settled here in Oshawa where I came to be years and years and years later. But that was a bit of a story that I haven't told too many and this is the first time I'm telling it on the podcast, because you mentioned about our histories, your grandfather and I thought it might be an interesting time to bring it up. Yeah, that was good.
Speaker 6:I'm glad about that. I'm very interested to hear the trauma that our grandparents went through and how I am a believer in God and I'm saying it's amazing how God works to bring people to different places and that's how I got born in Canada. My goodness, the communist revolution was so nasty and they murdered so many people.
Speaker 5:Oh well, and my grandmother came just before the Holomador, which was when Stalin went out and killed between 11 and 12 million Ukrainians, and he had teams going out shooting these individuals, where 50,000 Stalin youth went out and just shot the Ukrainians and then he couldn't kill them fast enough so he ended up starving them to death by selling and getting rid of all their grain, and that's what caused the Holomador and that's what caused the hull of Medora. So there's a long history between Russia and Ukraine and what takes place that a lot of people don't take into consideration. But I know, james, one of the things with myself is anytime we went anywhere, we always took the kids. So my dad, when he turned 75, he'd been going to Mexico for 19 years and so he kind of shamed us and I'd never been down to Mexico, where he goes to Puerto Vallarta. And we went down and I said, okay, kids, we're going to do something that each of you wanted. One wanted to go fishing, so I arranged that. Another one wanted to go snorkeling, so we did that. My wife Diane wanted to go in the back country, so we rented Jeeps and had somebody take us through the back and for those I was totally shocked. And Puerto Vallarta they have. Basically, as far as I could tell, it was kind of a single road where we were and at the end of the road on top of the hill where it was concrete turrets with people sitting with machine guns and military stuff there to protect the outskirts of Puerto Vallarta where we went out.
Speaker 5:But the one thing that I was getting to was that. So I told everybody, I said okay, it's all set up, we're doing this, that. And the other and the boys, my sons, josh and Garrett said well, what are we going to do that you want to do, dad? I said you don't want to know. And they said what do you mean? What are we going to do? I said no, you don't want to know. What are we going to do, dad? I said, all right, we're going to the dump. He said we're going to Mexico to go to the dump. What are we going to the dump for Mexico, dad? I said because there's 10,000 kids that live there and we're going to do what we can.
Speaker 5:And the reason that I did that was I take the kids, our kids, and show them the other aspects of life that are out there, that people don't realize, that are going on, yeah, so now think about this, james. So and we're off topic, obviously, but it's a little bit of a passion with me so we took enough clothes down to close 300. Try to think about how you carry clothes and we paid the own shot. We didn't get a break, which I found out about later. If you let the airline know that, they will compensate and allow you to take things like that down, but to clothe 300, I mean, we took hockey bags of clothing down for the kids and stuff like that down there that come out of the dump.
Speaker 5:And we actually worked with a couple of groups there and the one was there was two groups that I found it didn't matter if I was doing missionary work in Kenya or in Egypt or in Mexico, there was two groups.
Speaker 5:That was very consistently, I'm finding, and whether it's just by chance or by luck or by, as we would say, by God's design, but it was the Catholic Church in Puerto Vallarta had donated land to Rotary International that built this building or kind of a shelter, and twice a week Rotary brought the people out and the kids out from the dump and they taught them how to work in the tourism trade and basic things so they could get out of living in that environment and our kids have some real exposure to that. But it's important to realize because pretty much everybody living in Ontario, where we are, the mindset is that that's the world standard and it's like that everywhere. But it ain't, and people need to realize that and certainly we tried to show our kids that aspect of life everywhere we went. But let's get to your topic, james. Tell us a bit about your background, your education, say, and give us a little bit to talk about, because you had a climate change or information session, yeah.
Speaker 6:I had a delegation at the Durham Regions DCAC, that's the Durham Environmental and Climate Advisory Committee. I gave a delegation last Thursday, november 21st. But first let me give you a little background. I studied science at the University of Waterloo that's where I graduated and I interrupted that education there so I could go to Greece with my father and we bought a car somewhere in Brussels and I drove the car to the island and it was a wonderful experience and I think that experience taught me more about life than I could learn on a campus. Then I returned and I finished my final term and I got my graduation and then I worked in small techie jobs for the last you know, for most of my career. And then I worked in small techie jobs for the last you know for most of my career.
Speaker 6:And along the way I got married and you know, we lived in a four bedroom home in Brooklyn, my wife and I and two kids actually three. She had a child from a previous marriage and so one evening we were going to do movies. It was a movie night, so we had a I think it was a VeggieTales thing that I rented for the kids and I rented, you know, kind of a romance thing, a kind of a relationship thing for my wife and then for me because you know I'm more interested in this stuff I got this video called An Inconvenient Truth by Al Gore, oh yeah. So you know, the first two videos went pretty good and then everybody went to sleep and I said to my wife you know, do you want to watch this? She goes. You got to be kidding me. She went to bed. So I watched this thing by myself. An Inconvenient Truth was very clever. It had great cinematography, it had some wonderful pictures of polar bears and different aspects of God's green earth and it was wonderfully made. It also had some pretty interesting props. You know it showed Al Gore sitting on a scissor lift and he's trying to emphasize the increase in CO2 as if it's unusual, and I saw the whole thing and I was impressed by those things. But there was no real science there. Things, but there was no real science there. It was mostly later on I would identify as propaganda, but at the time I identified it as just someone telling a story which isn't bad and it isn't wrong, and so I thought you know what I got to look into this.
Speaker 6:I've been hearing stuff about climate on and off for many years. Let me start looking into it and I really couldn't. On the other side, the pro-climate change, alarmist kind of sensationalism you know the hysteria had been going on for quite some time. I remember reading about it and just shrugging it off. And the reason I shrugged it off, jerry, is that when I was 15 years old in Hamilton, I remember reading about global ice age. Oh yeah, and the hysteria around global ice age was insane. You know we're all going to be dying of frostbite in August by 2020 and all that other nonsense. So as I grew older, I learned that sensationalism sells and it's the sensationalism that people get attached to, especially when they're young. I've talked to young people who feel guilty about climate and I try to tell them look, it's not your grandfather's SUV, it's not Melba's new young cows.
Speaker 6:Co2 is a natural outcome of an increasing population and I got a little more serious about it when carbon tax came in. I absolutely abhor carbon tax. It taxes our very breath, jerry, you and I, when we go for a walk, for example, say we hold our breath for about a minute you and I being guys, you know relatively big we would breathe out about 40,000 parts per million CO2. That's what would come out of our lungs. A smaller person would be a bit less, but that's a lot of CO2 every minute, minute and a half. And that's what people do. We produce CO2. To be alive, to be human, to be biologically active, we breathe out CO2. And if we tax Mm-hmm, we breathe out CO2. And if we tax carbon, which is CO2, they have a formula to reduce it just to the carbon, and I abhor that. They're taxing my humanity, they're taxing my breath and I would want everyone who's listening to understand that it is tyrannical to tax someone's humanity, to tax their breath. Now, that's an ideological construct.
Speaker 6:Others can argue it, but that's how I've always felt about it and, furthermore, about carbon tax is what I heard from someone who I had a bit of respect for until I heard him say this. I think it was Dr Suzuki. He was a zoologist out west and he said we're in trouble. We're in trouble, climate. We're in trouble. There's too many of us. And what does he mean? There's too many of us, jerry? I mean you and I just described some pretty nasty things that happened. Someone decided there's too many Ukrainians. Someone else decided there's too many farmers in Russia. And what was their solution? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6:So the ideology of there's too many of us, you know we're in trouble can turn really bad really quickly, especially if someone, some moron comes up with a utopian vision for the future. You know how many utopian visions turned completely evil in a century. You and I know.
Speaker 5:I very, very well remember, in the 70s, the global ice age coming if we don't make changes back then, you know, and it was the same with a lot of different things. I mean here we're going to save the forests, so we started using plastic bags and plastic everything in order to stop the trees from being cut down and being processed. Yet in my research, one of the things that I moved forward was when I was Minister of Natural Resources was where is the best carbon converting trees? And actually it was a poplar hybrid and it was between 15 and 20 years old of the tree's life, because they grow like weeds, like teenagers, and so when they're teenagers they're consuming so much material and it's the same with trees that between 15 and 20, that they're taking in so much carbon dioxide that it was necessary, but once they get past that, they don't require as much. That's right. And so it was important to get that change over in the canopies and why we have natural wildfires that have huge burns.
Speaker 5:And I remember Wawa 13, where I took the opposition parties up to just to see it, and it was like something from Apocalypse Now, where you land in this area, and it was just unbelievable the amount of helicopters and individuals. All you could see was this haze and smoke and burnt area in the area where teams were coming in at night to get their breaks. But those were natural occurrences that occurred that put lots of carbon in the environment but CO2, I should say. But the same thing is, it's promoting new growth. Where are you going to get those trees? Those trees are going to make those conversions? But these are all things that need to be factored in and so many different ways that aren't. But tell us a bit more about your delegation and what you brought forward. Sure, sure.
Speaker 6:Just a little more on trees. We have so many trees that are still alive and the actual number of forest fires is less than it was in 1980. The actual number of forest fires is less than it was in 1980. I'm going to talk about that, but I read a statistic that, canada being such a large country and its population being so small that the so-called carbon footprint that we put out compared to how much we draw down is minuscule. And if you were to take the difference between what we produce and what we draw down and multiply that by the $80 a metric ton of CO2 tax that the people in Ottawa have put on so disingenuous Forgive me for saying this, they're morons, I'm sorry, I usually don't use those those terms and so, um, that's about 200 billion dollars a year. That's the 80 dollars per metric ton of drawdown that we do. That's after you subtract what we produce from what the number of trees and drawdown would be, and then you multiply it by 80 and you get 200 billion dollars.
Speaker 6:Will the IPCC countries compensate us $200 billion a year for drawing down so much CO2? No, so what's the deal then? It's not about CO2. It's about something else, but I don't want to speculate. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I just don't.
Speaker 6:I've always felt it was disingenuous and it was the alarmism that they used. It was the hysteria that we're all going to burn or first we're all going to freeze but then we're at the same time, while the global ice age, people were making their case and, you know, selling books and writing articles. The warmers were still there but they weren't that popular. So they got themselves together, I guess they were reorganized and they started pumping, warming, warming, warming. And once the 70s were over and the cyclical nature of our climate changed from a slight cooling to a slight warming, the warmers kind of won the competition. And they've been in competition with that to see how sensationalist they can be, to see how many books they can sell, and to see how many books they can sell and to see how much attention they can get.
Speaker 6:And that's why I absolutely disagree with the narrative, 100%. And let me so. After I saw that video of Al Gore that would have been gosh 12 years ago, 14 years ago. Video of Al Gore that would have been gosh 12 years ago, 14 years ago I started looking for literature, jerry, that would show me I knew there was lots of literature that showed that there were claiming climate emergency and climate this and climate that, and so I wanted to look and find something that said the other side, and it was very little. And then along comes this book by a remarkable man named Tim Ball. I think you met him once.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I sat in on one of his lectures.
Speaker 6:What an extraordinary guy. He was very smart, a very smart man and a very effective writer, and he wrote a book. I think there was a second book on the subject called the Corruption of Climate Science, and I read that book and I thought, wow, yeah, you know, that's where I started learning some scientific facts that I could have looked up myself because I studied physics. And so you know, carbon dioxide is the weakest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. It is not the strongest, the strongest greenhouse gas. This is per molecule. This is not the strongest the strongest greenhouse gas. This is per molecule. This is like physics stuff Per molecule. It's the water vapor molecule. That's completely stronger, nine times stronger than CO2. Co2, I think, absorbs infrared, which is part of the greenhouse gas theory. It absorbs infrared around 15 nanometers, I think 15 nanometers, I think whereas H2O has all kinds of frequencies at which it absorbs infrared. That's part of quantum physics and stuff. And so I thought, wow, I just didn't know that stuff.
Speaker 6:I got to start reading more and more and then I thought, well, what about the scientists? I keep hearing about scientists. So I ran across a book by Lawrence Solomon. He was an author. I think he was an environmental author for the National Post and I bought his book called the Deniers and he went through a number of scientists who are most of them are ecologists, most of them are very much environmentalists, but they themselves said there's no climate emergency. That's the point. It's not that climate doesn't change, it always does. We may have a teeny tiny impact. I don't think so, personally I don't think that. But some people say, look, we do have a small contribution to when climate changes. Okay, fair enough, but none of it is as extreme or as hysterical or as sensational as everything is going to burn. You know that thing.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and Tim Balls. It was a very good lecture that I sat in on and he went into details about how he determined his understanding of climate, because the information that is being utilized is very small window of opportunity. So he goes back for weather records which I don't know how far back they go, but I know that Tim Ball was actually trying to use fur sales from the Hudson's Bay Fur Company to determine weather patterns because of the lynx sales. So in mild winters the snowshoe hare, which is the number one food for lynx, increases in population and when that takes place the lynx has larger litters and more lynx and there are more lynx caught and submitted into the Hudson's Bay fur company, which they had all the records for. And so his theory was it went back 400 years for the information that he was determining and he was showing that the cycle based on Hudson's Bay fur sales showed it was being a natural course. And one of the things that I always thought was very interesting is he said you know, when you go back to Leif, erikson was coming across and there was found Greenland. Yes, that Greenland was called Greenland for a reason because it was green at the time, right, and so that's why it was called Greenland, not what it's being explained as now.
Speaker 5:But Tim's theory goes into a bit more and, as I recall, it was what's called deviational shift of the Earth. So essentially, what deviational shift is? The Earth sits on an axis and the axis was straight up and down vertically and then slowly over time it shifts, so that the, the top or the north pole, is not straight up and down, but every year it's moving and the reason it moves is because of a, the, the earth's core, um, is shifting positions, of a magnetic load in the core which is causing the earth to move. That it's causing different programs or different weather cycles, which is a natural course according to Tim, and one of the interesting things that he said in his lecture was that quite a few years ago so this would have been probably 20, 25 years ago that he was talking about referring to, maybe even longer, maybe 30 years ago that he did some research study and told at least he told us that he informed the federal government that he expected that the cod stocks on the East Coast were going to diminish substantially, not that they weren't going to be gone, just that they were going to be gone from the East Coast, because what was happening was the deviational shift of the Earth was causing ocean currents to change their normal patterns and the warm water that was coming up along the East Coast was now shifting and the cod would move where the currents shifted to in order to, because they feed on the fish that live in the warmer waters. And so 10 years before there was a substantial reduction in the cod stocks. He predicted that that's what's going to, what's going to happen on the east coast, but it was because deviational shift of the earth causing the ocean currents to change their position and the cod moving towards that. So there was some theories there that were way outside the normal thinking.
Speaker 5:That was very interesting. That got me thinking about a lot of this stuff that we don't take for well, people don't even consider in a lot of cases, which I found very interesting, and I'm not sure because I didn't read his book. I didn't actually know that he had a book. At least he didn't promote it. He wasn't self-promoting, or maybe he wrote it after the lecture, but I found it very interesting. So I'm going to have to check out that book. But I don't know, maybe there's some more stuff in that book that you might be able to enlighten us on, james.
Speaker 6:Well, the book that I wrote was was uh, that I read was 2015, I think, so that would have been many years after the fact and he was on a very different subject, but I recall reading something about a Dr Ball and about a shift that would change the Gulf Stream, and the last I read about the cod stocks is that they're not coming back anytime soon, and so he proved to be right. A lot of people criticized him. He's outspoken, he's a very clever man and he had some really good ideas, and he said over and over again that there is no climate emergency. A lot of this is just natural cycles. So his book was great because it showed some genuine science. He also talked about how the IPCC came together. What is the IPCC?
Speaker 5:What is the IPCC?
Speaker 6:International Panel on Climate Change.
Speaker 5:Okay, just make sure so that people know what we're referring to. Go ahead.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that's another UN body and it was made up by the World Meteorological Association and a few other meteorological people and groups, and they formed the IPCC and it was from the beginning that they wanted to demonstrate that anthropogenic CO2 was a human signal in the climate. In other words, they already projected what result they wanted to find. Science, as you know, doesn't work that way. We try to follow the data as best we can and we know we try to refine our measuring instruments so that we have good data. Some data is better than others and then we try to develop a hypothesis that kind of fits the data or the data fits into the hypothesis.
Speaker 6:This was exactly the opposite. They were already making their decision, what they wanted to find. So they've been at this now for 40 years. Still haven't found a human signal, you know. And so what a waste of time and money. Enormous amount of money have been wasted on this, have been wasted on this and gosh, we've. You know you were around in Ontario when the Liberals blew their brains out financially and were still paying billions of dollars every year for wind turbines. Nothing against wind turbines, except that they don't really work. You have to have a very unique position, probably a seaside position, know like, like the dutch have, in order to have consistent winds that can power, uh, uh, a wind generator.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the ones I've seen, they're, quite frankly, they're monstrosities, they're the giant eyesores well, some of it, james is, is people don't realize that in order for wind to pick up it, it needs long stretches of flat ground, and so that's why in Ontario, when you go over hills and you come back down, it slows the wind down, right, so what?
Speaker 5:And there was a group when I was Minister of Natural Resources that wanted all the rights to all the wind turbines to be placed in Lake Ontario, which would be a long stretch of flat area that allows the wind to pick up in order to maintain wind. But I wouldn't. I refuse to give any group sole opportunity to maintain those rights, and to me it just wasn't right. But I didn't realize at the time that it takes long stretches of flat area and that's why things like the prairies and that have a lot of better chance for wind generation where here going, and that have a lot of better chance for wind generation where here going up and down a lot of hills decreases the wind volumes and it doesn't work as well in hillier area, right, right, and that's a very good point.
Speaker 6:Another point is what do you do when the life cycle is over? Those huge blades are not biodegradable. They have a lot of oil product in them. They have a lot of oil product in them. They have a lot of resin in them. That's what they're made of. It's kind of a fiberglass combination with resin, and they're very well constructed because they have to carry so much pressure. But what do you do when you dispose of them? They go in the ground and they don't biodegrade.
Speaker 6:So are we really doing the environment a favor by going to wind turbines? My answer is no. It may sound interesting, but to me it's dumb energy in the 21st century. There were great energy sources in the 14th and the 15th century. That's what they were using in Europe. That's eventually came here. There's various little types of mills and grist mills here in Southern Ontario going back a few hundred years, but once we had fossil fuels, we didn't need them. All we need to do is clean up fossil fuels, which we have done over the the centuries, and we have something that is economically sustainable.
Speaker 5:Right now there is some changes coming about that I'm seeing that a lot of places around the world are making differences and I know I saw some information. I tried to get in touch with the individuals but there was a language barrier for coming on the program out of Germany who was using mushroom mycelium to make you know, are you familiar with the climbing walls? You know they have these climbing walls around that you can climb the walls and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So what they were doing was they were climbers and they found a way to turn mushroom mycelium, which is basically the roots of a fungus, into a hardened material that could be used on climbing walls. As hard enough. So slowly some of these things like you talk about the wind turbine, the blades on them being very difficult but eventually, as this technology increases, it becomes more environmentally friendly for other areas that potentially are there. But that's how innovation comes about is by these particular groups and there were a couple of ladies that were very impressed with that did a great job on developing this mushroom mycelium and turning it into molds that actually turned into climbing uh nodes on um climbing walls that they were selling that's pretty cool.
Speaker 6:That's very cool and that kind of gets into material science. Yes and um, I used to be uh, my father was a dealer for ba. If you remember ba and gulf in Gulf, we had gas stations. I grew up in a gas station Right, and I remember talking to the area director, mr Bill Fountain this was a long time ago, I was still quite young and he said look, most of the barrel of oil is refined for the materials, which is why when we have a shortage of oil, we actually have too much gas. Which is why when we have a shortage of oil, we actually have too much gas, because whatever oil we have, we have to refine to meet the material need and we're left with a little excess gasoline. And I was so shocked to hear that, but it really informed my mind how things are more complicated than they seem. So, um, today we have even dramatically more use for the materials that come out of a barrel of oil.
Speaker 5:Yeah, actually Go ahead. I'm not familiar with BA, but I know BP, british Petroleum but not BA. What's BA?
Speaker 6:That was the precursor to Gulf Oil, gulf bought out BA.
Speaker 6:That goes way, way back Gosh. I was just a boy when they bought them out. I remember when they changed the sign from BA. Yeah, that goes way, way back Gosh, when I was just a boy when they bought them out. I remember when they changed the sign from BA to golf, and BA is an interesting acronym. You can make up all kinds of stuff. What DNA stands for. There was a lot of jokes about that, but anyway, yeah. So oil needs to be refined for our materials. We look at our cell phones. We look at our cell phones, we look at our screens. That I'm. You know most of the mechanism of the mic that I'm speaking through. The table that I'm on it's a plastic table. I mean it's materials. We refine oil for materials. And if we go to electric vehicles, like complete electric vehicles, there'll be even more of a surplus for gas. And you know what they do they dump it. I mean it can't be ecologically friendly to dump gasoline.
Speaker 5:No, Well, I recall, because I did some research, it was called the alternative fuels program, the committee, which was a special select committee in the government, that dealt with a lot of things, and one of the things that I found interesting because I did quite a bit of research on that committee with the government it was that there was additives that were put in gasoline to make them they're called oxidizing agents to make them burn better.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so it was, was it BTH? And oh, I can't remember what the acronyms were, but what happened was it was put in the fuel to make it burn more efficiently. However, they said because the presentation in committee was that even on outboard motors that used to spit out a lot of gas, the gas used to sit on the top of water courses and then evaporate into the environment. But with these new additives they separate from the gas and they drop to the bottom of the water course and they were carcinogenic. So it was very concerning that these additives that were being used as oxidizing agents were now really doing some contamination. But the gas as a whole was not the problem, because it sat on the top of whatever lake you're on and then it eventually evaporated into the atmosphere and was not problematic from that perspective. Right.
Speaker 6:Yeah, interesting, cement and gasoline, and this is why I say we've had a price on pollution in Canada for about 60 years, maybe more. I remember when I was young pumping gas and there was always this sweet smell of lead, and this is why I say we've had a price on pollution in Canada for about 60 years, maybe more. I remember when I was young pumping gas and there was always this sweet smell of lead, and lead is toxic and I wouldn't be surprised if I, you know, probably got a few I don't know some damage done to me because I was pumping gas when I was eight years old. But eventually we got rid of the lead. The lead was there to lubricate the valve seat.
Speaker 6:So we had to redesign the engine. That's good technology, that's good engineering. Jerry, I always encourage good engineering. You had to re-engineer the surface of the valve and the valve seat to have stronger metal so that it doesn't need the lubrication of the lead, because the lead, being soft in the exhaust, would actually lubricate that. And so we internally designed it better. We could get rid of the lead and then we could put catalytic converters on to take the nitrous oxides out. Technology I love engineering and technology to solve these issues, not some carbon tax and boogeyman in the sky kind of thing.
Speaker 5:Well, the lead used to be number one of the number one contaminants in the environment in the mid 80s, before it became lead free, and I often wonder if there's been any research that connects the amount of lead in a person's system to some of the issues that people are having with Alzheimer's, dementia, parkinson's and things like that, that over a cumulative of times that it builds up and concentrates in locations but that's another show, probably to talk about stuff like that.
Speaker 6:Yes, yes, yes, but it's a very interesting topic and I'm glad that you know you're on top of those kind of things and I'm glad that you know you're on top of those kind of things, back in 2016, frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.
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Speaker 5:So there's been quite a change in a lot of it, and I recall I brought in a sulfur reduction motion in the legislature that cost about one to three cents per liter I'm not sure At this time, I can't even remember if it was per liter or per gallon. No, it must have been per liter. Increased in cost in producing of fuel in order to reduce the amount of sulfur in the atmosphere, right right, and of course the petroleum industry was not very happy about that. But the reason I brought it in because where I'm from, oshawa, the automotive sector wanted that in order to reduce the amount of NOx gases that are being admitted out there down the tailpipe. And I remember the president of General Motors, who I was sitting with at the time, saying that you know, we can only do so much with the base material that we have and if it was better, then we can produce better vehicles. And it was shortly after I was brought that in that they reduced the amount of sulfur and gasoline, which reduces a lot of the knocks and socks that were being emitted by vehicles into the atmosphere. And it was a very contentious issue with a lot of the sector one side for it and one side against it. But I think it was better for the environment as a whole and us as people.
Speaker 5:But I have to tell you, james, I've been into some countries and I tried to bring it up at a forum in Kenya when I was there and with the World Bank and we were talking about, you know, helping the local economies and then the environment and that, and I have to tell you it was in Nairobi. If you walk to the length of the mall here, twice down and back, by the time you were in Nairobi you felt like you got this kind of film on you from the gas, because they were, all you know, blue and black smokers every one of the vehicles. So I ran up there I said, look, why don't we have a standard on gas production so it reduces the amount of toxins that go into the atmosphere, which reduces costs on the healthcare system and on so many other areas? And it got shot down pretty quick by. Actually, it was the World Bank that did not necessarily support it and my belief was that they felt that first world countries could afford it, but places third world countries could not, so the burden should not be put on them.
Speaker 5:Which?
Speaker 5:I didn't necessarily agree with no I don't agree with that either.
Speaker 6:Interesting, which I didn't necessarily agree with. No, I don't agree with that either. Interesting we've talked about gasoline, so you probably remember this too. Pcbs were extremely toxic. A tiny amount could really kill a person, and we just re-engineered transformers and instead of using PCBs we used something else. I mean, we can engineer problems away, and that's been our mode for 100 years.
Speaker 6:And to start complaining about a natural substance like CO2, as you talked about CO2, helping young plants and medium-aged trees grow to complain about CO2, to demonize CO2 as though it's a pollutant is absolute insanity. It is not true. And then to say it's a dangerous emission no, it's not dangerous emission. If you take the CO2 out of any process and consider it a benefit, then you have a very different looking footprint. But it's a lot harder to tax, isn't it? Co2 is everywhere in the atmosphere. This is what Dr Tim Ball said. Why would they choose CO2? Because it's everywhere.
Speaker 6:And these are globalist thinkers. They want to override and supersede national governments. So you get into these issues of sovereignty. And is it really voluntary? When the IPCC puts out or the UN puts out a program, you know, is it really voluntary? Well, if you sign on. I guess it's voluntary. You know, is it really voluntary? Well, if you sign on, I guess it's voluntary, but then you have to follow up, so don't volunteer. You know, that's part of the thing. That's really bothering me is that a lot of what we're seeing in climate change policy is driven by unelected leaders on the other side of the ocean.
Speaker 5:Now I recall some of the other issues that I tried to. I did a bit of research on as well, and it was my colleague in the legislature, mr O'Toole, that was kind of pointed out that one of the byproducts of cement plants is CO2. Yes, and they're the largest contributor to CO2 in the atmosphere. But how do you move forward without cement plants and concrete plants that produce all this? So I had tried to find out some information from the greenhouse industry that builds greenhouses, because they actually pump CO2 into the greenhouses to make the plants grow and they actually have to wear body suits with oxygen when they go in and do their work to try and do that. So why not locate greenhouses by cement plants and send the CO2 from the plants into there?
Speaker 5:But it wasn't cost effective in their eyes at that time. Neither one of them saw it as a benefit. But it was some of the things that outside the box thinking kind of goes a long way in making changes that would benefit a lot. I mean, here you have a natural byproduct for production now that you know was brought forward, and here you have a company that utilizes that byproduct to a point where they actually pump it into their facilities to promote growth, but it didn't seem to work. But eventually sometimes these things will go full circle and they'll say, hey, that might be a good idea someday.
Speaker 6:It's already here. The carbon capture, or I would say CO2 capture, is here and I don't oppose it as long as it doesn't, you know, put up my inflationary cost by as much. As I've seen in the last five years and I've also talked to people in greenhouses it depends how much you pump in and they walk freely in there. They don't wear suits or masks, they just walk around in their elevated CO2 and they get a little better seed production, a little more fruit, you know, or whatever it is they're growing. So yeah, it depends on how up you go. But before you need help, I've also read that nuclear subs have a lot of CO2 buildup over a month, that they stay under the water and so on and so forth. So humanity can survive with much higher CO2. So it's not to be alarmist about it.
Speaker 6:And there's also natural limits to how much CO2 will actually accumulate in the atmosphere, because the ocean absorbs it. The relationship is inverse If it gets colder, it absorbs more. Gets warmer, it exhausts a little bit of CO2. So there's that going on too. But overall the ocean is a big absorber of CO2. So the actual component, the actual anthropogenic component, of the 430 parts per million is very small. Some people say it's really small. I say it's about 80 parts per million last hundred years, and that is not something to be afraid of, that's not something to destroy our current understanding of economics. We have to do it gradually and we have to do it voluntarily and we should never, under any circumstances, carbon tax. I've already talked about that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I had specialists.
Speaker 5:I had Ted Chudley on who was an MPP I sat with as well, and we talked about even things that people don't realize that when they store apples they eliminate all the oxygen and the apples don't go dormant.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so they don't rot the oxygen and the apples don't go dormant, so they don't rot. And so what they in those areas there's, they eliminate all the the the oxygen from from the storage units and that's how you get like fresh, brand new apples all year long. Looking is because they found a way to make them go dormant and that's utilize or eliminating the oxygen out of those areas to be able to have them have fresh apples all year long, which I had no idea until I actually worked with. It was a local orchard here that brought that information out to me that I never really understood. But people, you know these things that we don't really consider or even understand how they happen, but there's a lot of research to make those things happen like that and there's technology that's required to do that, and I'm a big proponent of technology to solve a number of issues.
Speaker 6:It's been going on since the Enlightenment that we create new technology to solve. You know the old adage build a better mousetrap. That people are motivated by ambition, which is good, right. You know, if ambition is directed properly, it's ambition is good. That's how we got, you know, cleaner gasoline. That's how we got cleaner vehicles. That's how we got intermittent wipers. That's how we got all kinds of cool things. So I'm a big proponent of that. I've taken a lot of your time. Do you want me to go through the delegation that I went through?
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah. If you want to give us a brief summary of what was said and how it went over, that'd be fine, James.
Speaker 6:Yeah, okay, because I got some other stuff, but I can talk forever. Maybe that's why I was a minister for a while. So that was my second degree was theology. So anyway, let's go with the global extreme weather events were much less in the last 40 years than they were in the first part of the century, 20th century, and what's interesting to me is that before that time, before the 1920s I'm trying to remember now the deaths according to extreme weather were less before the 20s. Then there was a spike in the 20s and the 30s and even into the 40s.
Speaker 6:If you remember the Dust Bowl in the States, grapes of Wrath, that kind of thing, it was a unique time in our history. There's never been temperatures that high since that time and never been a combination of dry and high temperature, which created the Dust Bowl. So I brought that out In the last 40 years. It keeps going down. But what's most interesting is that the number of events keep going down. Extreme weather events keep going down, but there's far less people being killed because we are adaptable, and we have. We talked about technology. It was a technology that we adapted to that reduced the number of deaths. Even though there's more people around these days, the number of deaths per extreme event is always lower. We have, for example I'm going to give you an example from earthquakes we have earthquake foundations, hurricanes, we have, you know, hurricane shutters and hurricane shelters and all kinds of other stuff that we've come up with to deal with these occasional natural phenomena that happen. So that was my first slide.
Speaker 6:My second one is more interesting. It's the IPCC, ar6. The AR6 came out in 2023. It was published in 2023. The information was gathered in 2022. And in the wet-dry column, there was no human influence currently, and they didn't expect any of it up until 2050. Currently, and they didn't expect any of it up until 2050. With the exception of moderate rain, it's going to be increasing in the northern latitudes precipitation, rain or snow. It's going to increase in the northern latitudes but decrease in the southern latitudes. So there's a balance there and that is really telling that, in terms of wet-dry, in terms of aridity, in terms of what do you call it agricultural drought, even fire weather when it comes to forests, there's no human signal that they found. And that's the IPCC. And that was my second slide. The third slide was AR6 wind. Wind is significant If the wind picks up and the temperature picks up, you're going to get agricultural drought. Third slide was AR6 wind. Wind is significant. If the wind picks up and the temperature picks up, you're going to get agricultural drought because the wind, in combination with the higher temperature, evaporates and dries out the soil and it occurs commonly but it's all natural. There was no human signal whatsoever in the IPCC's AR6 discovery for wind, so there was no human influence in the trend, not for the wind, not for the wet, dry or the drought or the too much rain. So that tells us that we are not the ones, through CO2 or methane, that are causing this stuff.
Speaker 6:The fourth slide was global burn. This is to do with forests mostly, and millions of kilometers square kilometers per year Between 1901 and 2008,. And there was a general downward trend towards 2008 and a bit beyond. The data was better because they were using satellite Satellite. You know, has a can take far better pictures of what's happening in a particular area when the fire is going. And what they found was that there's a downward trend of the amount of forest fires and the amount burned, that is, the square kilometers burned per year on a global basis. So that's the global scale and that tells us that there's no human component to the extreme weather. Well, what do you mean? Human component? Co2, methane? We do not influence those things. That's what AR6 found out and this other group that did the global burn.
Speaker 6:So finally, jerry, I went to my fifth slide, which was Canada's temperature spikes, and Quebec and Newfoundland had its temperature spike the highest it's ever had in the 1920s. The three Western provinces and the three maritime provinces had their spikes, their highest temperature spikes, in the 1930s. So the anomaly to this would be British Columbia, which had like a temperature spike of 49.6 in 2021. That's huge, but it's an anomaly. It cannot have anything to do with CO2, because CO2 doesn't stop at the Alberta border. Co2 doesn't stop at the Ontario border. They had their spike in, I believe, 1975, we had the highest temperature spike. So, once again, when it comes to temperature spikes or global warming, if you will anthropocene CO2 doesn't cause extreme temperatures. That's what I wanted to say. Anthropogenic CO2 or methane does not cause extreme temperatures, and yet there's this notion that extreme weather is increasing and it is not.
Speaker 6:Finally, my sixth slide was the number of forest fires in Canada and the area burned. That was roughly I'm trying to see 1980 to 2022, a 42-year period, and there was a general downward trend. The graph that I put up had number of forest fires. That was kind of a black jagged line, and there was the bar graphs that were showing how much was burnt In 1980, the amount of burn seemed to be higher as compared to the number of forest fires, probably because we were not as adept at fighting forest fires.
Speaker 6:Now you have to experience that. You know what that's like. It's not easy. You got to get planes to go and pick up water from a lake Hopefully it's not frozen over and you got to dump it on at certain places. It's a real challenge, but I would much rather we invest our money in better forest management. We lost Jasper. We lost a forest outside. Jasper is beautiful. I've been there a couple of times. It was so beautiful and to think that they could not take out the deadwood out of Jasper Forest so that it would produce some natural fire breaks in between clumps of you know clusters of trees, but it would also prevent a huge fire which, you know, most of Jasper now is just burnt the forest, that is not the town.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the national parks policy is a burn policy, which means if a fire starts, they let it burn Right, whereas provincially they put them out, which is a provincial policy where we try to put out as many forest fires as we can, including in the parks. However, the national policy is if it's burning, they let it burn, they take its natural course.
Speaker 6:Okay, taking natural course doesn't sound too bad, but preventative maintenance is always good, because about one third I'd listen to people online and on X and a few other places who live in that area they say you know what I would say. Some person estimated not quite a third, but you know, close to 30% of the trees in there had gone dead, and if you have a condition that's both dry and then you get some kind of a lightning storm or you get some kind of a human error and it'll start a fire, so I don't like Parks Canada's position on that. I understand natural burn, but when you're close to a town, don't you think you should protect the people of the town? Why not take down a bunch of deadwood which produces a natural break fire break, if you will, in between trees and give some people some kindlewood? You know, just cut it up, let them have it. Because a lot of people out therewood, you know, just cut it up, let them have it. So because a lot of people out there, you know, in the winter it's very warm and they use tile stoves and stuff, so and and so um.
Speaker 6:The general trend, though, is that anthropogenic co2 or methane does not cause extreme weather and that was the key point. And I I put up one last slide, probably one too many, because that didn't rub people too well. Why do we? Why do so many people think otherwise? And the title of the last slide said how is it that mainstream media gets extreme weather wrong again and again and again? And so I spoke and I said you know what Sensationalism sells Hysteria, climate hysteria sells. It doesn't have to be climate. It could be climate, it could be health, it could be any kind of hysteria. I mean, just look what happened with COVID. So there's all kinds of hysterias and sensationalism that sells, and most national media houses God bless them, but they have a business model to sell. And so you know. And I said that that's probably why we have a misconception about extreme weather, and I encouraged everybody to read widely, read deeply, do your own original research, and I'm so delighted to speak with you, jerry, because you've done that.
Speaker 5:Well, we certainly try to. We never accept anything. I know I sat on one board where I had to tell them. I said, just because I'm handed a piece of paper by somebody does not necessarily mean that it is full and complete from the ability of me to look up the knowledge. It may be full and complete to the capacity of the individual handing me the paper or producing it, but it's not necessarily everything that'll be informative to give me to make my decisions as I'm moving forward and I will go outside those norms and research those things, because that's what I'm put on those boards to do, in my opinion, and that's what needs to take place.
Speaker 5:I mean, knowledge is power and the more knowledge people have, the more understanding they have. They get a better reality in what makes things work and what the actual impacts potentially could be. I mean we talk about planting of trees and not only does planting of trees, but if you have toxic soils, it's going to clean up a lot of those soils. And I recall in Florida once they had one community that had very bad tasting water. There was nothing wrong with it, it just had a bad smell and a bad taste. So what they did was they planted a swamp a bulrush swamp, cattail swamp up river from where the water reservoirs were and the bulrushes cleaned up all the water and gave it great smell and great taste.
Speaker 5:Those are the thing of thinking outside the box. And I know here we have old, what they call brownfield sites in the community in Oshawa and I keep looking and going. You know, eventually in the amount of time in my life when that field was sitting there, those trees would be mature now and cleaned up a lot of that soil already, rather than having to wait for somebody to show up with a bulldozer to take it away to be processed in some way, shape or form. But that's thinking outside the box and that's the kind of stuff that we need. And we need individuals like yourself making presentations to give people alternatives and way to think and to look at things.
Speaker 6:Yes, yes, and if I can, I really like what you said about you know the piece of paper and how many you need to go outside that. There's a proverb. Solomon wrote the proverb. He was a very bright man. He was given a double portion of wisdom back in his day and he said you may need many advisors to make a decision. It's a pithy statement the more advisors, the better the decision, something like that. But you need to, as I said to the group, read widely, read the other side, read in between and, um, be diligent about that and don't just accept what you hear, especially from the media. God bless them. I know they have a business model. They employ people. I don't have no problem there, but, um, I do have a problem when we pay for it, and it's no good. I have a problem with CBC right now, but nevertheless, what can I say? I think this information age that we're in is going to help us a lot in the future.
Speaker 5:Well, just so long, because there's a lot of disinformation that's out there as well, which is you know, it's not well-researched, it's not. I know, when I'm dealing with Chegg, I look and I see YouTube videos and I go what is this person talking about? You know, this is the only tree it'll grow on If you find another tree, is not that? And things like that, and I go. Well, that person doesn't know what they talk about. But I think the key to what you're saying, james, is very much of the Queen's Park motto, which is listen to the other side, right on Perfect. I love it and that's what needs to take place, I agree. But, james, we appreciate you taking the time to be on the program to enlighten a lot of individuals, to give them some sites, some things to think about in some places. And where can people find some more information? Or have you listed those books again that you mentioned might be a good start? Or how can people you know, look and find more details about what we're talking about?
Speaker 6:Well, I tell you, the Internet is if you know where to look. I've heard a saying once that an intelligent man knows where to look for what he doesn't know. So I'm going to list off a bunch of these now. The one in the UK is called Global Warming Policy Foundation. That was started by Lord Lawson in the UK. So for anybody who's listening from the UK they may want to check that out. And then America, of course, got all kinds Global Warming Petition Project. That's in America. 31,000 plus American scientists have signed it and 9,000 of those have PhDs. And what are they signing?
Speaker 6:Just what I said before there is no climate crisis, particularly now, from anthropogenic CO2. Then there's the Climate Intelligence Group, or CLINTEL. No Climate Emergency, that's another group. You can look these up on Google, find the websites and tap into them. What else is there? Climate Depot that's been around for a long time. Mark Moreno from the States. He's been on this file for 30 years. He's the one that goes to the UN meetings on climate and provides an alternative, and they treat him like garbage because they have an agenda, because the agenda pays them. You follow the money, kind of thing. You've got to be careful with that. I'm sure you know that from your experiences. And what's up with that. That's general science stuff. But the guy from what's up with that started the CO2 Coalition and the CO2 Coalition also gave rise for younger people, co2 Learning Center. So for those who are listening, you may have to re-listen because I'm just listing them off.
Speaker 6:Now for Canada In Canada we have Friends of Science Society you may be familiar and we also have Canadians for Sensible Climate Policy. That's John Zacharias in Toronto. I met him and I've worked with him. He helped me in my last delegation. He has a good friend in Ottawa named Tom Harris, a retired engineer who rediscovered the truth about what climate, what moves climate and what doesn't, you know, the sun and so on and so forth. And finally there's a forum for Canadian sovereignty. It's a little bit different. It deals more with the sovereignty issue. But Friends of Science, canadians for Sensible Climate Policy you get on their website, become a Pathfinder and they have access to the. They have an AI machine we call them machines in IT and you can type in stuff and get all kinds of articles. And so I typed in extreme weather and I got a bunch of articles which informed me on how to take that information to my delegation last week. So yeah, canadians for Sensible Climate Policy Very, very good. John Zacharias and Associate Tom Harris. Tom Harris is part of another group, I forget the name. It's an American group, and what else? I wanted to say.
Speaker 6:One other thing about books. Let's see if I can find it. There it is. This is from Friends of Science. This book just came out. It's for Canada. It's called Energy and Climate at a Glance Canadian edition 2024. Facts on 22 prominent climate topics. And I'm going to get my hands on this from John sometime this week or early next week. And I'm going to get my hands on this from John sometime this week or early next week. I'm going to read it judiciously so that I can get their perspective. It always comes from solid science. That is reference to the people who did the research Energy and climate. At a glance, that's from Friends of Science.
Speaker 5:They're advertising it now, but it originates from canadians for sensible climate policy and uh, yeah, yeah well, james I, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today and you know, certainly, um, knowledge is is the key to so many things, and knowledge is the key to power and so many things. And but I have to tell you there's there's lots of times that I sit back and I say to myself you know, I wish I didn't know now that which I didn't know then, simply because it becomes so complicated and so complex. It's not clear and cut and dry and from that perspective, it's a question that I want you to think about, but not to answer on the show. But was life easy or was life hard for Forrest Gump?
Speaker 6:Oh yeah, yeah, Very good, very good, yeah, yes, yes, yes, anyways, james we appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 5:It's just something a little bit different perspective of what happens above and below and as part of building what's happening out there under the canopy.
Speaker 6:Thanks, james, wonderful Thank you. Thanks for having me, man, it was great the pleasure was mine Take care.
Speaker 2:How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.
Speaker 2:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more fishing than it was punching. You so confidently you said hey, pat, have you ever eaten a drum? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.