Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 77: The Secret Passion For Bees w Dr. Erica Shelley
The episode highlights the crucial role bees play in our ecosystems and the challenges they face. Dr. Shelley shares valuable insights on beekeeping, hive management, and effective strategies to combat threats like the Varroa mite. Additionally, listeners learn about the processes involved in honey extraction and the importance of supporting local beekeepers for environmental health.
• The significance of bees in pollination and food production
• Insights into hive structures and bee social dynamics
• Strategies for managing pests like the Varroa mite
• The honey extraction process and its nuances
• Importance of supporting local beekeepers and sustainable practices
• Educational resources and advice for aspiring beekeepers
• Essential role of bees in maintaining ecological balance
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Speaker 3:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by Indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of this strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people. That will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode, and hopefully we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy. Under the Canopy Well, same as always. I just want to say I got to say thanks to all those listeners around the world you know the Canadian market that listened to us. We really appreciate that, of course, the US and Switzerland, trinidad and Tobago, ghana, all the places around the world. Really good to really appreciate all that you do and listening to us and sending us questions and things like that. Now, as usual, morning I was out again running my chocolate lab and some gunner out and Willie showed up and Willie's a German, short haired and you can tell a coyote had been through because they were on the sniffing trail pretty quick and we're starting to see coyotes back in where we go, which is normal. And this is about the time of year you're looking well, not quite yet. They're going to start pairing up probably the end of the month when this goes to air and beginning of the next month.
Speaker 3:But you know, when I got into the studio it was interesting studio talk and what was talked about and Joe was telling us about the people who were using fecal matter from bats as fertilizer and the spores inside the fecal contamination. The two individuals using it actually ended up getting a special kind of like a bat pneumonia and they didn't know what to do and ended up getting a special kind of like a bat pneumonia and they didn't know what to do and ended up passing from using this. And most people don't know this. But when I was minister the interesting thing that I found was that the number two carrier of rabies in the province of Ontario was actually bats and most people can't guess what number three is, but I'll tell you anyways, the number three carrier for rabies in Ontario was cattle because there was a hundred percent reporting of all the cattle that potentially had rabies in the province because you get used to get fox that would bite cattle and they would end up getting rabies and they would be put down. But most people had no idea that number three was cattle.
Speaker 3:But it was interesting that about the bats and I always wondered what they do with the fecal material in zoos. You know, because when I can recall getting some research done or not some research, but some discussions with the Toronto Zoo and found it very interesting that they had to specially dispose of all their fecal material from all their animals for contamination reasons obviously. But then Ange here at the network, the Outdoor Radio Journal Podcast Network, told me that some of the zoos were actually selling zoo poo as a fertilizer and it was found very interesting. But that's not what we're here to talk about today. Today we have Dr Shelley back with us talking about a passion of hers, as opposed to what we were supposed to be talking about last time, which was organics in the province of Ontario. Welcome, dr Shelley to the program.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for having me again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure. So now tell us about your interest and background, dealing with your passion, which is bees.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I have been a beekeeper for about 15 years and it is my passion, but it's also been my job for over 10 years. So I work in bee research. I've worked with honeybees and with bumblebees and actually working with lots of partners, from universities to seed growers, to farmers, to individuals and I have hives all over the city here in Kitchener and in Guelph. So we're really lucky to not well, I'm really lucky, my team is really lucky that we not only get to do the thing that we're passionate about but we also get to make a living doing that thing. So, yeah, so that's that's what I do with bees. And yeah, yeah, I was just like thinking I'm like, did you want my story about how I got into beekeeping, or yeah, so I so my background. I actually have a PhD in molecular and medical genetics. I actually have a PhD in molecular and medical genetics and so my background was definitely centered on humans and human health and particularly looking at cancer and related to mutations in DNA. So I worked in DNA mismatch repair back when sort of even the genome was just kind of coming out. So it was a really amazing time where we were able to identify new genes and these pathways and I actually worked with yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae to study these pathways. And the reason that's relevant is because I'm still working now with fungi, many years later, in relevance to bees. But back then had no idea that two were going to intersect.
Speaker 4:So I went with my kids to a demonstration of honeybees and it was really neat. It was this open hive, an observation hive, and you could see what all the different bees were doing and you know a typical hive will have somewhere between, you know, 10,000 bees when it's just getting started, up to 60,000 bees when it's really bustling. And this observation hive probably had about 10,000 bees. So it wasn't like a ton of bees compared to like a bustling hive. But there was a lot going on and I was just so intrigued with the bees but also the amount of honey that they told us they got from that presentation.
Speaker 4:And at that point in my life I and even still drank a lot of tea. There's like a joke about how much tea I drink and that tea is always sweetened with honey. So my honey expenses were quite expensive at that time and I thought, you know what, if I got a beehive I would save money on honey. And that is the biggest fallacy when you start out beekeeping is that you're going to save any money anywhere because it is expensive. You know you're losing your bees a lot. You don't necessarily have a surplus of honey for a while and then, of course, once you do have honey, then you start gifting it to people and then you've given away too much honey, so you don't have enough honey. And that's how I started. At this point we have over 50 hives and we have more than enough honey to go around to many, many, many people. But uh, but back then it was it was kind of funny that I thought I was going to save money with the honey. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's well. You know we get driven down these paths. We never really know how it's going to end up or where it goes, but we find a passion that we like and we follow through with it. So you got've got 50 hives. Now you mentioned you had them in and around Kitchener. Are there some actually in the town of Kitchener?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I actually have hives in about 12 different locations. So we actually have our main research apiary is at Strom's Farm, which is just outside of Guelph, ontario, and then we also have hives what we call our business bees on top of buildings or beside buildings or in lots of buildings. So we actually have two beautiful hives that you can look at at the Kitchener Public Library and it's really neat setup because if you go into the library up to the second floor there's like a computer area and it actually looks out to like a little outside atrium and so you're at eye level with the entrance and exit of the bees, but they're outside there and it's just a really amazing location. I think we've had those there for four or five years now and working with the library staff is amazing. The library is beautiful and it does provide a great springboard for talking about the importance of pollinators. So that's one location.
Speaker 4:We do have some on top of Google Canada. Bingaman's is a water park here and, yeah, several other business locations as well. And, yeah, we're still expanding. So we're looking at bringing our business bees to other places, but also we're getting businesses to build native pollinator habitat. We also do native bee houses. So it's not just about honeybees but really talking about the importance of pollinators, the importance of habitat and the importance of supporting all those pollinators with the type of habitat that you install at your locations. A lot of these companies are huge, right, they have a huge footprint and we're able to actually improve that footprint away from ornamental plants to things that are actually good for the environment, and that's a really important thing. That we're doing at best for bees is promoting that protection of our pollinators yeah, the now you mentioned um again.
Speaker 3:We're going to walk through a lot of the listeners to basically a hive. So it's these boxes that uh kind of um are wood boxes I assume it's wood that have different tiers on it, correct?
Speaker 4:Well, okay, so kind of correct. So there are more hives types than you could shake a stick at. It is crazy how many different types of hives there are. So the one that you're describing, how many different types of hives there are. So the one that you're describing, that's the Langstroth hive and that is the most common hive in North America and even in Europe you'll see the Langstroth hives. But now we actually have plastic hives, styrofoam hives, that are starting to actually make up a huge percentage of the types of hives that are out there.
Speaker 4:So originally they were made from wood and they were in this expanding system that you know.
Speaker 4:It's like it would get.
Speaker 4:You know, like a tree, like if the bees continue building and building like they would in a tree that you start with a smaller space so they can warm that space and maintain it and take care of any pests in a smaller space, and then, as they need more space, as they start bringing in nectar and pollen, then you increase that space by adding on another box, and these boxes are continuous, so it's really a continuous space inside, and then, as they fill it up, you add another box.
Speaker 4:We call those supers and those supers although we always say they're super because it's really great, because you're getting honey in them. Supering actually means to go up, and so there's actually some other hive types called warre hives, where you actually add those honey supers below and they call that nadering. So that's a different type. But there's also horizontal hives where you don't even add anything to the top but you expand them lengthwise and yeah. So there's a lot of different variations out there, but the general thing being is that you have smaller sizes for smaller populations of bees and then you expand their space as they go through the season and then you shrink it again so that they can keep it warm and maintain it when there's less bees and less food.
Speaker 3:Right. So when you get these supers, how many tiers would the box hive sort of be affiliated with a super then?
Speaker 4:So each super is going to have a certain number of frames which you've probably seen. These are those hexagon cells, the B cells, and so each one of those can usually hold about. If you're looking at a typical Langstroth now I'm going to just move over to talking about Langstroth so that it sounds pretty accurate but each one of those Langstroth frames weighs about five, six pounds if it's full of honey. And then you know you're going to put anywhere from eight to 10 of those into a single super. So if the bees fill those up, it's about 60 pounds of honey. And and then you know if, if I have a good season, you know here I'll, it'll be anywhere from, you know I'll leave.
Speaker 4:I always leave one super on for my bees for winter, so then I might take off three. Four would be a great, a great year for me. In some places where there's a lot more nectar, a lot more forage, some people might even get up to five or six. So you can do the math there. It's, like you know, 360 pounds of honey from a single hive. But in some years where there's a lot of rain or drought, or if you have, you know, your bees are just not a great population or if they're just starting out, they may just have enough honey to get them through the winter, and I usually like to have about 100 pounds of honey to get them through winter.
Speaker 3:Right, so a lot of these supers. Now they'll only have one queen in the entire unit, though, correct. It's not one queen per tier, it's just one for the entire unit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we call that a colony, right? So one queen in that colony and she'll usually hang out in the lower boxes and that's where she'll lay her eggs. She can lay around 2000 eggs a day, so you can get an idea of how busy she is, and so she doesn't even really feed herself, so she gets fed by her attendants. And so she's gone out and she's mated when she was young, within the first few weeks of her life, and she can actually mate with up to 15 different boy bees, which are called drones, and then she stores the sperm from those boy bees who unfortunately die after they mate with her. She stores that in basically an organ in her body called the spermatheca and she can actually hold that sperm for up to five years. So she can live up to five years, whereas most of our bees in the summer live like six weeks to three months and can live around six months in the winter. So she has a very long lifespan.
Speaker 4:And, yeah, so she. There's only one queen in there and and all of the bees that are in there are part of of her colony. They'll have her smell and and that's why you know you don't, the bees know, you know which home is their home, and and and they can tell if there's foreign bees trying to come in, because they don't smell the same, don't have the same pheromones that their queen bee has.
Speaker 3:Oh, so Dr Shillay, tell us what kind of bees are around? I mean, you mentioned honeybees and bumblebees that you've done research on, but we've got quite a few different strains. Do we know?
Speaker 4:that. Yeah, so we have so many different types of bees, okay, so 20,000 bees worldwide, and I think we have about oh, if somebody's listening to this, my apologies if I don't remember the exact numbers I think we have about 3,000 in North America and about 800 different types of bees in Canada, and the majority of those bees so the honeybees that we're talking about that live in a colony they're actually a rare type of bee.
Speaker 4:So these are eusocial bees. They have like hierarchies of you know, you've got your queen, you've got your workers, and they actually go through very specified jobs during their life cycle. But most bees, and then other similar bees to the honeybees, would be bumblebees. Now remember I mentioned that honeybees can live in colonies up to 60,000 bees. Our bumblebees only live in colonies about 300 at most, so they're much smaller. They dwell usually, you know, in a cooler, shadier location, like under a tree or a porch, and their numbers will build up and then they actually will die.
Speaker 4:That whole colony of bumblebees will die over winter and the queen bumblebee will go and bury herself just a few inches under the soil so that she can get through winter. And she has a chemical in her polyethylene glycol, which is what you find in antifreeze that allows her to survive the winter. And then, when that bumblebee queen emerges in the spring, she has to go and build her entire home again. And so, yeah, that's a whole process. And I say again, she will actually be the original queen from the year before that will have laid.
Speaker 4:her will not survive to the next year, so it'll be a new queen that will have just mated before she's gone to hibernate for the winter, and then she'll emerge and make her home for that year, and it's one of the reasons we say, you know, in the fall and in the spring it's really important, when you think about raking or doing anything to your lawn, that a lot of these pollinators actually are in soil overwintering, and so you know, we have to be really cautious and protect the habitat of those bees.
Speaker 4:So there's like a stingless bee in South America, that's a eusocial bee, and then the majority, though, are solitary bees, and so we have our solitary bees, like the biggest bees are the carpenter bees that you'll see.
Speaker 4:They're huge and shiny and black, and they drill perfectly sized holes into wood, like a soft wood, all the way down to teeny, tiny bees that the there's, like fairy bees that you know you just barely could see with the naked eye, and so I always challenge people to you know when, when the not right now, not, anything's going to be happening here in Canada right now, but when the weather is nice, to start looking for all the different types of bees, because you just don't realize how many are there. You think they're flies or maybe something else, and they all, you know, maybe pollinate something specialized. Or, you know, we have our bees that are squash bees that you know are specific for pollinating squash, and then we have more of our generalized bees, like our bumblebees, who fly in cooler temperatures that will actually pollinate a number of things that we were really dependent on that flower early in the season. So, yeah, there's a challenge I'm putting out there to your listeners to search and see how many different types of bees they can find.
Speaker 3:So you mentioned that a honeybee queen lives about five years, but how long does a bumblebee queen live?
Speaker 4:She's only usually going to live for that season, so she's usually a single season. And I do work with bumblebees and I've done research with bumblebees, but I'm very specific to one type of bumblebee. So there may be other bumblebees who maybe do multiple seasons, but they usually will lay a bunch of queens before the end of the season that'll go out and mate and then it'll be those new queens that overwinter and then build their home the next year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know. I posted on Facebook a couple of years ago a number of extremely small bees that were pollinating my mint plants, my spearmint and my peppermint, and I was quite surprised how small they were compared to, say, a honeybee or a bumblebee. They would be like oh I don't know, maybe a quarter or a fifth the size of one of the big bees, and I found it very, very interesting. But those would be some of the small bees that you're referring to. Probably.
Speaker 4:They would definitely be, one of the smaller bees, the solitary bees. And solitary bees they'll nest in all sorts of cavities, so it could be the ground. They might actually dig holes in the ground. If you've ever seen holes in your hard pack dirt, those will sometimes be bee homes and what they do is they lay their eggs and they add pollen like a bee bread in there and then they'll make rooms so they'll put a little bit of dirt in between each of those eggs. That will actually develop over the season. And they'll do the same in brick. If you've ever seen the mason bees, they'll actually do the same in brick.
Speaker 4:And often the hollow, pithy stems of plants is great habitat for bees as well. So we always encourage people not to cut down plants once they're dead. That's exactly what they're there for is for providing those little rooms so those solitary bees can build that up. And if you've ever seen a solitary bee house, sometimes they'll use bamboo or other varying sizes of openings, because the different size bees will like different sized openings based on their. They want something that basically, when they go in, is a nice tight fit so they feel protected. Nothing can get in there, and then they can easily pack each of those little rooms that their babies will develop in so nice and tight, and then move on to the next one.
Speaker 3:So it makes me wonder. Then we talked about bumblebee, or honeybees, and bumblebees having a queen. Now, do all bees have a queen? Bee that are required or basically has is responsible for ensuring that the species continues uh, no.
Speaker 4:So actually the majority of bees, as I mentioned, are these solitary bees, so they don't have a queen. Every single one of the females can reproduce, um, or can reproduce, I should say, can reproduce fertile offspring. Uh, honeybees, every queen, or every female, can actually produce as well, but she can only produce a male if she has not, if she's not mated. So and so generally, the, the you know obviously the they don't have spermatheca, so they can't store sperm if they're a honeybee or one of these eusocial females, but solitary bees, they need to also mate but will lay fertile offspring. So, yeah, the only ones that require a queen, and which has actually been an evolution from those solitary bees to allow them to overwinter and protect their food over time, those are the only ones that have queen bees. So, bumblebees, the stingless bees that I was talking about, and the various types of honeybees, Hmm, interesting, and is it?
Speaker 3:honeybees is a specific strain of bee, and are they the only ones that produce honey?
Speaker 4:No, so all bees will produce some sort of honey, because it's basically nectar that gets thickened. So all of the bees are going in there, they're getting that nectar and so forth. But in terms of storing honey for their own consumption later Honeybees, bumblebees, these other, so they're all part of the Apis mellifera those are the honeybee species they will store honey, but basically all bees can make some sort of honey. They're just not storing it in the same way, but the honey, the pollen, the bee bread, which is a mix of honey and pollen that's actually fed to their babies. But in terms of harvesting, the only bees that we actually harvest honey from are the honeybees and the stingless bees that we've mentioned that are in South south america. So, um, they're called, um, they're called mellow I'm looking this up right now melapony may. So, yeah, they have a different name, um, but they're, they're still, um, yeah, melaponins.
Speaker 3:so yeah, but the honey honeybees that we're talking about would be the only ones that are usually shipped where a queen is actually shipped, or and I understand that people buy hives as replacement hives or starter hives or however you want to call it and that's only for honeybees. They don't do it with other bees.
Speaker 4:No, you can actually buy bumblebee colonies. So we use bumblebees to pollinate Hascap here in Ontario I do that each year and other crops. So you can actually buy honeybee or bumblebee colonies. But they kind of they just come ready to go and again, they're not for honey. But if you're going to be, you know, a beekeeper, you're harvesting honey. You're going to start with either what's called a nuc colony, which is basically four or five frames of bees. That includes all stages of their development, what we call the brood, from egg, larvae, pupae to the adult bees, as well as a queen. So those will come in like on frames that you can just transfer into your hive. You can also buy packages of bees, so that's like a box of bees. They're not on anything, they're just free forming and you dump them into a hive and then you can get a queen with them or you can order your queen separately.
Speaker 4:You know, sometimes, people, really there's a whole thing in the bee world about having certain types of genetics. So people are selecting. For you know good honey producers, good disease resistance, you know bees that are less aggressive, bees that you know are more aggressive because they sometimes like more honey, and then certain genetics that you know people kind of have. You know different things, that they different qualities that they're looking for in their bees and so they will, you know, choose their genetics based on that. And then survivability obviously me getting a California queen here in Ontario and wanting it to overwinter well, it really hasn't been selected for doing well through winters. So if I have a California queen, which might be all that's available early in the season, I might transition her over to a local stock, hygienic queen what we call Ontario stock here to have a good colony that will get through winter and be able to deal with what winter brings here in Ontario, which is very different than what you would see in California.
Speaker 3:So you mentioned about having a bumblebee colony for hazcaps.
Speaker 4:For hazcap, yeah, which a lot of people probably don't know what hazcap is.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know what hazcaps are. Actually, I'm not sure that the person I know, because they raised them and actually this year they lost all their entire crop because of the weather. But I've never talked to her about what she uses for a pollinator and I'm interested to pass on the information about why a bumblebee as opposed to a honeybee.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so hazcap is one of those crops that actually blooms very early. It's our first berry that comes out and it's actually blooming usually by the first week of June, which is usually not great weather for honeybees. So honeybees will not fly in the rain and they definitely want it to be over a certain temperature to fly. So really, for pollination flights, we say 12 degrees, very variable about depending on the bee, but that's kind of a cutoff that we give, and whereas the bumblebees, they're like they don't you know, they got like they're big, they got warm coats and they're actually very efficient pollinators so they do bumble around actually very efficient pollinators. So they do bumble around, but they are very efficient in terms of their pollination abilities. So, yeah, so we'll actually put bumblebees on housecap crops, even in places where we have honeybees. I see way more bumblebees on them and they definitely prefer, like grapes, like those kinds of berry crops.
Speaker 3:The bumblebees are really good pollinators, so so yeah, Well, maybe you can just let our listeners know what a hazcap is. Then it's a special kind of berry.
Speaker 4:It is a special kind of berry, so the hazcap. It has other names blue honeysuckle, sweetberry, honeysuckle or honeyberry and it actually is like very native to our area, these cool temperate areas and it's similar to a blueberry, but a little bit more tart and it's like it's. So it looks the color of a blueberry but it's it's like more oblong and a little bit more tartness to it. So a lot of people use it for jams and for pies. At Strom's Farm they make like an ice cream with it and even, I think, they make some cookies and an amazing pie. And yeah, I really enjoy hazcap. It's a very unique taste if you haven't had it, and yeah, not very common.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a grower at the Millbrook Farmers Market that sells them, but this year lost basically everything, and she produces a jam with them as well, which is very, very popular, but it's a unique niche that she has. But I had no idea about the bumblebees potentially pollinating them because of temperatures and those types of things. So that's some information that I'm going to pass on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and she probably has native bumblebees in her area. So the bumblebees that we bring in are not necessarily native to the area, and so it's actually something that you have to be very cautious about. The bumblebee producers have gotten better at not letting the queens get out so they don't colonize that area. But it is generally in. Greenhouses is where we will tend to use those bumblebees, where they're more contained and they're not going to affect the surrounding area. But the native bumblebees can actually do a really great job of it too.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, sometimes in farming areas, what I've told you about how the bumblebees will overwinter, or if they're using pesticides, then you don't see as many bumblebees in those areas, and that's when it needs a little bit of help. So maybe something happened that that she turned her native bumblebee populations have have gone down, or you know if it's raining really hard or if you get a hard freeze right when the flowers come out, you know that that could affect it too and that that might have happened. But one of the neat things that you can tell with hazcap flowers is when when and actually with a lot of flowers is when they've been pollinated you can actually see they like turn brown, like there's a very specific way you can tell that they've been pollinated.
Speaker 3:You mentioned about bumblebees and colonies and hives and queens. What does a hive cost? Or how much does a queen cost? And how do they get it to someplace? They just ship it through the mail. I mean, I've seen the boxes, I know the way they do it. But just so our listeners know how does that go about and what kind of cost are they looking at for, say, the market just passed, because I'm sure the price fluctuates as demands out there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it depends really on where you live how much you're going to spend. So we're talking about honeybees. I'm just going to clarify that now. And so if we're looking at honeybees, like in my area, $250 for a colony, I think, is what we were paying. I didn't buy any last year and I don't sell bees, but I think the year before they were around $250. And so it'll probably go up. Depends really on the survival of the bees. So, um, and then you know, kind of the growing rate.
Speaker 4:So if you're going to buy that nucleus colony which includes those frames, all stages of brood, the adult bees and a queen, like 250 to, I'll say, 200 to 300, probably depending on where you live, and if, um, most of those nukes arees are, you're going to actually go pick them up. So you're going to go to your local beekeeping store and we have some amazing beekeeping stores here in southwestern Ontario. There's quite a few of them and all of them will have nukes that they'll be selling. And then and I say here but that's true, I know your listeners are, I think you said really really far away, so but their local beekeeping stores are with their local beekeeper. And then, in terms of packages. Packages aren't as common here in Canada, they're very common in the United States and those can actually go through the mail. So, yeah, you can order your queens through the mail. So, yeah, you can. You can order your queens through the mail or from your local beekeeping store or your local beekeeping provider, or you can actually order those through the mail.
Speaker 3:How long? How long will a queen last in in the mail? I mean, we just had the postal strike here. Uh, that, uh, which would be quite a while. But how long can the queen go in the mail and what does she need? Is there food provided for her while she's being shipped?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so when you have a queen come in, she's going to be in a container of some sort that's basically like two inches by half an inch.
Speaker 4:It's a very small container and she's going to be in there with a candy like a marshmallow or a fondant, which is like a sugar mixed candy, and then she actually has to have workers with her to feed her, because she doesn't feed herself.
Speaker 4:So there'll be, you know, anywhere from three or four bees in there that their job is to feed her and she can't actually get too hot or too cold. So we have a really big issue actually with shipping bees and our queens. There's been times when you know planes have sat out on tarmacs where they're bringing queens in and the queens get overheated so they come in alive but you don't realize their fertility has been affected and so you know you just get a big batch. Like you know, there might be a couple thousand queens on an airplane coming in from somewhere and if it sits out where it gets really hot or really cold, the impact, you know, might not be obvious. She might come in alive but might not be very good at laying eggs and a lot of people, especially if they're new beekeepers don't realize when they have a problem right.
Speaker 3:Until it's too late.
Speaker 4:So there is like some care that needs to be done. You know, usually within a few days from her getting packed up, does she need we? We actually like if I, if I'm moving Queens, if I have a queen, I'm actually going to be adding some water, um to keep them cool and hydrated. So you know, it's it's not very long that you want them to be in the mail. So they're definitely getting shipped kind of like an overnight thing. But yeah, if there were any bees in the mail during that postal strike, um, first of all shame on anybody because they knew the postal strike was coming, but yeah, they would not have done very well.
Speaker 7:How did a small town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way. Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.
Speaker 5:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more fishing than it was punching.
Speaker 7:You so confidently. You said hey, pat, have you ever eaten a drum? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3:And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga Health and Wellness. Okay, we're here with Kim from Bob Cajun and Kim, you had a great experience with the Chaga cream and your grandson. Can you tell us about that a bit?
Speaker 6:Yeah, so my grandson actually struggles with psoriasis. He's only 16 years old, so of course, the self-esteem right. He doesn't want his face all covered in scales and stuff like that. And I picked him up on a weekend to come and visit with me and I had overheard you talking to somebody about psoriasis. So it kind of piqued my interest and I thought I would ask you about that. And when you explained it to me I took a container home for him. Right.
Speaker 6:And in one day he was over the moon, happy that his face looked clear and he was and he's going to be religiously doing it because, he's so self-conscious about it.
Speaker 3:So he tried other things the medical system and things like that, and they just didn't have any success.
Speaker 6:Correct, he had a prescription of cream and you know, it would sort of dry it up a little bit. But that was the problem it just dries it up and then it's flaky on his face and he doesn't really like that and it leaves a lot of little red blotchy stuff right. So after he rubbed that stuff on the chaga stuff, right he was. His face didn't look so angry, you know, because it's a red angry sort of right on his face and it didn't look so angry, it looked soft and and clear.
Speaker 6:So he was over the moon happy, and so I took him home, and then he messaged me after a couple of days to tell me that he's so, so happy that his skin looks clear great thanks very much, Kim.
Speaker 3:from Bob Cajun. You're welcome. We interrupt this program to bring you a special offer from Chaga Health and Wellness. If you've listened this far and you're still wondering about this strange mushroom that I keep talking about and whether you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of interest to you. To thank you for listening to the show, I'm going to make trying Chaga that much easier by giving you a dollar off all our Chaga products at checkout. All you have to do is head over to our website, chagahealthandwellnesscom, place a few items in the cart and check out with the code CANOPY C-A-N-O-P-Y. Code CANOPY C-A-N-O-P-Y.
Speaker 3:If you're new to Chaga, I'd highly recommend the regular Chaga tea. This comes with 15 tea bags per package and each bag gives you around five or six cups of tea. Hey, thanks for listening Back to the episode. So, Dr Shelley, tell us what kind of predators prey on bees or honeybees, and why Is it just honeybees, or would bumblebees be preyed on by other? Well, we briefly talked about this when we were talking organics with you before, but maybe you can expand on it. We're talking pretty much all about bees.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so if we look at bees like, the number one issue we have with bees is something called the varroa mite and that actually just replicates inside the hive on the larvae as they're developing the bee babies. And so it will. Actually it's like a tick to a bee right, it transmits whatever viruses it's carrying. So that can transmit deformed wing virus. There's also some other viruses that will affect their orientating getting back home and then just overall just results in an overall sick hive. And so you know, our beehive losses are up at 50%. The US just they just put out their latest one was a 50% loss last year. So so it's a. It's a real struggle beekeeping, and especially for new beekeepers. Like last year I had a hundred percent survival. But I've been doing this for a long time and I study bee health and I have, you know, staff, you know, beekeepers who work with me with a lot of, you know, time put into maintenance, and so you know we're able to do that. But over half of the world's bees are actually owned by hobbyists who you know don't necessarily have either the time or the expertise to know what to do. So the Varroa mite really is our biggest threat to bees, but they're not what you'd call a predator in the sense that they're not outside a hive attacking it. They're actually living with, you know, like no more than ticks of predators of us, but they definitely can cause havoc with our bodies long-term. So when we look at other predators there's so many different predators of bees the biggest issue we tend to have here in the fall or even late summer here is anything belonging to that Vespa family. So we're looking at yellow jackets, hornets, wasps. They have a shortage of food as the larvae inside their hives quit, producing a sticky substance that they've been feeding on for most of the summer, and so they go looking for more food. And, you know, pollen may not be around, because the wasp, yellow jackets and hornets also will eat pollen. There might be a shortage of nectar. Rain washes away nectar. So if there's a lot of rain, there's not a lot of nectar available. And yeah, so they'll go to the easy pickings, which is a hive full of honey and protein of bees, and if the bees are not strong enough to keep out those invaders, they can actually wipe out an entire hive pretty quickly, fairly easily. And so I think we were talking about last time, but one of the products that our company Best for Bees developed is the Protect-A-Bee, which goes on the front of a beehive and actually keeps out those yellow jackets, hornets and wasps with a special entry that allow the bees to be able to defend the hive a lot easier as well. So those are kind of the main predators.
Speaker 4:Honeybees can be predators of other honeybee colonies. So if you have a weak colony, a strong colony may go in and also rob that colony, and that colony is usually weak because it has varroa mites. So then that's some way that the bees will get. If they didn't have varroa mites, then they'll get them when they go in that hive and take them back to their strong colony and so that robbing behavior and then also they can be bringing in mites right.
Speaker 4:So it's a big issue, these robbing bees that are robbing from other hives, and it's a big issue, these, these robbing uh bees that are, you know, robbing from other hives, and it's not like you can train your bees to stay home. So there's that, um, and then you know there's, there's, uh, we have skunks here, and at night the skunks will tap on a hive and the bees will come out and they will just eat them one by one as they come out, and so you can actually see scratches along the side of a hive or at the front of it and uh, and then you're just, and your bees get really aggressive and mad when you go out and you're like you don't know why and it's just like it's like they've been bugged all night, just like someone's bugging you all night and taking off your family one by one. You might be a little miffed in the morning too.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, and again, our protective bee. Actually, the skunks don't like it, so they don't bother those hives. All of this was not the plan for our protective bee, but it ended up doing all these awesome things.
Speaker 3:We had an issue. You might try something with the skunks, okay, and I don't know, um, it's all an antidote, um, right now, as to, we had a problem with and I talked a story about. I mentioned my chocolate lab earlier. I come home one night and we have a bunch of rabbits in the backyard and he was at the door chomping to get out when I got in. So I figured oh, there's a rabbit in the backyard, he goes out, he comes running back in and he starts rubbing his face on the carpet and the couches and everything. Oh no, I know that, get him in the tub. He's been sprayed by a skunk, anyways.
Speaker 3:But what I found out? Or just by chance, because I use a lot of coffee grounds as a fertilizer and when I started putting coffee grounds on in the backyard, skunks don't show up at all. I have no idea why and whether it was just by chance, but the coffee grounds kept the skunks away and every time I start to, there's a hint of skunks in the neighborhood. I put coffee grounds down in the yard and no skunks come in at all. Don't ask me why. Yeah, do you put them?
Speaker 4:around the perimeter.
Speaker 3:We get enough of the coffee shops. They dispose of their grinds and the research I did because there were some companies using coffee grounds as a growth median for various oyster mushrooms and a bunch of different ones, and so I found out that only 2% of the nutrients are extracted. So coffee grounds actually work as a good fertilizer the second year and the first year and then they start to break down with the nitrates in it and produce a good fertilizer. So I started using that as a fertilizer around, but when I had an abundance and it just by chance and I was like no more skunks, wait a sec. I wonder if there's a relationship here. And it seemed that I've done it for a couple of years now and been very successful in keeping skunks away.
Speaker 4:All right. So either coffee grounds around your beehives or my protecta bee. Some people use nails in front of their hives and I think that can help, but I actually have videos of the skunks just going over those. So, yeah, we have to deal with mice inside of hives too. So you know, in the winter the bees they just cluster. They're not doing much in the winter, and so it's really easy for a mouse to just move in and like gather their heat and then just like help itself to their honey as the winter goes on, and then they die, not because the mouse has actually eaten them, but because it's eaten all of their resources. So so, yeah, and dragonflies are an issue, so they'll actually catch bees out of the air and uh, and that that can be a problem. So so, yeah.
Speaker 4:So there's a lot of um, you know, know, lots of, you know smaller predators for bees, and then of course, there's bears. So we actually have bears all the way down in Guelph. Here now I've heard that people have seen bears. So we don't have any bear fencing, electric fencing around our hives, but in bear areas they will put electric fencing around our hives. But in bear areas they will put electric fencing around, and that's quite a bit of Ontario, because once the bear finds the bee yard, they just come back over and over and they literally rip them apart and it's very devastating.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you mentioned dragonflies. I think there was I can't remember it was 56 or 36 different strains of dragonfly in the province of Ontario and the largest one was called a dragon slayer dragonfly. I don't know if you know much about dragonflies at all, but it was interesting to see that they'll actually migrate as far as Florida from Ontario. I had no idea.
Speaker 4:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:That was something that because what happened when I was Minister of Natural Resources I tried to see about potentially doing a dragonfly release in areas that had large or have been notified of West Nile virus that was being transmitted through mosquitoes. So I thought if we could rare dragonfly larvae and release them into the areas to consume mosquitoes, it may be a natural way to control the West Nile virus that was around.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But what happened was the bureaucracy thought no, can't do it. And they gave me a whole bunch of reasons that different dragonflies hatch at different times of the year and you want to make sure you have the right ones at the right time, and all that sort of thing. So it was extremely complex and about a year later I had to call in the deputy and said have you seen these articles here? So what do you mean, minister? I said well, guess what? In England and in Manitoba?
Speaker 4:they're releasing dragonflies to control West Nile virus, and you thought of that on your own?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:My goodness, you could have helped us here.
Speaker 3:How do beekeepers deal with these mite problems that they have?
Speaker 4:So we have not enough options. So one of the things that we're working on is is this fungal powder for uh, varroa mite treatments and natural soil fungus that you can use? Uh during the honey season? So the biggest part about you know having a pest inside a hive you know having a pest inside a hive is if you use a pesticide, obviously your bees are also pests, and so you know, getting something that's not going to harm the bees but is going to harm a mite is difficult. But then the second part is is that you also have food right there in the hive that people do not want to have anything in it, right? So there's a couple of issues there. So there are what we call synthetics, which are, you know, not naturally occurring chemicals that can be used inside the hive. And so you know inside the hive and uh and so you know trade names of. Of the one that's used the most commonly is Apavar, which is an Amitraz based uh product and uh and and that works. Um, if the, if the mite levels aren't too high, uh, it will. It takes about 42 days. You can't use it when the honey's on, so you have to make sure that, um, you know you've used it either before or after and uh and so that's you know, sort of uh one of the the methods. Uh, the other method uses um acid treatments. So we have um some, some acids that come from, for example, like rhubarb plant and so like formic acid, that's like a naturally occurring acid. There's a company called Nod that's just outside Toronto and they actually invented Formic Pro. There's always formic acid but they have like a delivery system that you can actually just add these, these pads, to the hive and uh and and so they're safe to have on with the honey. But if it's too hot they'll actually um can can affect the queen and the overall colony health. So you, you have a very specific temperature window that you can use it, but you can use it with honey supers on. So that's the only thing in Canada actually right now that's approved for using. When there's honey supers on, it's just Formic Pro.
Speaker 4:Another one oxalic acid. Actually that's what's in rhubarb, not the Formic Pro. The oxalic acid actually that's what's in rhubarb, not the pharma pro. The oxalic acid is another acid, but you do a vaporizing treatment with it. So you need really really hot temperatures and that will kill the bees, kill the mites that are outside of the developing bees, so what we call outside the cappings. The bees as they're developing get capped and some of those chemicals can't go through those cappings and so oxalic acid can't. So it is approved for use with honey supers on in the United States but not in Canada. So that may be changing soon.
Speaker 4:I went to the OVA, the Ontario Beekeeping Association, meeting and they say that there's movement on that front. So we'll see. But it would give us one more tool to use during the honey season. But really what it comes down to is you know all these products you know are not great for the bees can affect the bees, and you know issues with using them with the honey supers on. And yeah, and then you know, if I do a treatment and then one of those robbing hives comes in to my hive and brings more mites, you know it's kind of irrelevant too, right? So it's a really hard, hard thing to keep on top of.
Speaker 4:So we'll do our last oxalic acid treatment. I've actually been waiting for our last day, for it's got to be over five degrees Celsius and we've been waiting for it. We had one day this week but we didn't get out to the hives, unfortunately, but it's been a really cold winter. So usually we'll have done it by mid-December, our very last treatment to make sure we get the last liberomites. But we haven't got to do that last treatment. But we do several treatments going into winter once all the bees. There's a short period here in Canada, in Southwestern Ontario, not across Canada but in our location, where we have no capped brood and that's the best time to use that oxalic acid. So that's you know what we can do. But it's a hard world.
Speaker 4:There's people that do you know treatment free and they you know survival of the fittest bees, and then you know that's you know.
Speaker 4:There are people who just don't treat.
Speaker 4:And then we have people that use even more like natural methods.
Speaker 4:They might, you know, sprinkle powdered sugar on the bees and try to get them to clean them off, or they use drone boards which are frames that fit boy bees, and the boy bees take a few days longer to develop than the girl bees, and so the Varroa mites actually prefer them.
Speaker 4:So the queen she just drops in whether it's a male or female egg, based on the size of the cell. So if you have the drone frames which have bigger cells, the queen will just drop in a lot of boys and then they'll raise the boys and then, once they're capped, people will take those drone frames out and freeze them or feed them to their chickens and get rid of the mites that way. But if you miss taking them out you now have like a mite bomb huge explosion in your eyes. So that's a little bit risky to do that method unless you're really really on it and it can work, unless you're really really on it and it can work. We have screened bottom boards that there's some data showing that that'll help reduce varroa mite populations. But really the best thing for it is obviously healthy colonies that can do hygiene activities to remove them and then monitoring them with washes to wash off the varroa mites so you can see whether they're present or not, and then responding to that.
Speaker 3:Well, I can let you know that some of the apiaries in the area last couple of years they've lost over 80% of their hives and I'm a primary researcher and found some primary research and developed a product where I provided it to them and, mind you, the sample select is very small. However, it was still very significant in the response that 100% of the hives that consumed this natural food survived, where all the other hives died. Ooh, yeah, yeah. So I will be more than happy to send you some of it if you'd like, to try it for free and you can test it yourself.
Speaker 3:It's a food that's an all natural, it's a fungi based material that the bees seem to like very much so and we have a very good carrying agent that they consume in very small quantities. It doesn't take very much and all those hives survive. But the sample select was small and I tried working with a number of universities that, oh, this is great, this is great, and then you never hear from them again. But if you're interested, I'll be more than happy to send you some and, in the research, to back it up if you'd like as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Are you? Is this the reishi that you were mentioning in our last meeting?
Speaker 3:uh no, it's, it's a. It's a different one. It's a chaga based material chaga, yeah, okay yeah, inotanus oblica. So, um, and it seemed to have. Uh, first of all, the bees consumed it, they liked it, and those hives that had it, um, were, were the only ones that survived.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's another company doing the reishi mushrooms and so, yeah, they also are doing like they're feeding that as well. I have not done any studies around mushrooms Like we work with soil fungus for treating the varroa mites, but yeah, it'll be interesting to see. So, yeah, definitely send it along to me.
Speaker 3:I shall. Afterwards you'll have to text me your number, where you'd like it shipped to, and we'll ship you out a couple of bottles, but it takes very, very little. I can kind of give you, walk you through it once you receive it.
Speaker 4:Okay, and is this something you sell?
Speaker 3:Yes, I do, but not for, basically, when you can try it yourself. It's for human consumption, but we found that it had some alternative benefits that bees seem to like and seem to benefit from.
Speaker 4:All right, well, that's awesome. Yeah, you know what? Anything to fight the mite.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So how do bees survive a winter? What do they have to do to survive a winter? Particularly, I guess you mentioned about bumblebees. They kind of all die off with the queen bears herself and comes back and and then starts over again. But bumblebees, how do they survive a winter and what do they do to control it?
Speaker 4:just so people understand yeah, so with honeybees they basically all the bees stay in the hive. The winter bees are genetically different, so they've had different food fed to them and then they've also may have had different warmth that has affected heat shock proteins to basically make it so that they're able to survive winter a little bit longer. But if it's cold they cluster, so they'll form a cluster and that cluster is a moving cluster. So the bees in the middle are the warmest, the bees on the outside are cool, and so they're constantly moving from the inside to the outside slowly so that the bees on the outside get warmed and so forth. And I can't remember the exact temperature, but I feel like it's almost like 98 degrees Fahrenheit. Sorry for the Fahrenheit there, but that's what I have in my head In the middle there during winter. And so the queen obviously is towards the middle.
Speaker 4:And then this cluster, you know they're clustered together as a group and also over their food, so they're actually eating the honey as they get through winter. That's the whole point of honey is to get them through winter. They don't tend to eat honey at all. During the summer They'll just eat nectar. But that nectar gets, you know, it's like maple syrup, right. It's very watery when nectar comes in, but it gets thickened up as the water evaporates and becomes the honey, and so they'll continue eating that through winter.
Speaker 4:One of the cool things that they do, and I'm not sure exactly how they do it, but their wings are actually disengaged when they're in this cluster and so their bodies are vibrating to generate this warmth. So they basically use those same wing muscles, which are quite huge actually relative to their size of body, but they'll use that to vibrate to generate that heat and, you know, something knocks on the hive or they feel like they need to fly. They actually have to re-engage their wings, like hook them back in. It's like they've taken them off like a coat, but they're not like just hanging out everywhere. They're still on them but they're just not engaged with that muscle. They'll have to re-engage them and it does take a lot of energy.
Speaker 4:So we do, you know, kind of tell people don't bother your bees too much in winter, because it like literally takes energy for them to deal with you. You know, tapping on the hive or whatever. And yeah, so they'll. They'll, like I said, they usually live six weeks to three months in summer, but they can actually live up to six months in the winter and and you can tell a winter bee, it's a little less striped, it's not having to make and build wax. So you know it's. It's duties are very different, so it actually even looks a little bit different than your, your summer bees, and um, and by the time they actually come out and at the end of it you can tell they're old, they're shiny and black because they've been like moved over so much, they're like literally worn down and uh, and then in, so the queen quits laying our eggs for a little while.
Speaker 4:But as we start getting into spring and that's here this is very different depending on your temperature and weather, where you're located, when she'll start it, but it's pretty long.
Speaker 4:For us here we're one of the longest break periods, what we call a broodless period. But she'll start laying her eggs again in the spring and then their numbers will start coming up. So you know that's you know really important, as those other bees are aging out. But if you go into a hive at the end of winter, you'll actually find a lot of dead bees on the bottom because they maybe haven't got to fly out. But if we've had a warm day, the bees that are old, they go on basically a sacrificial kamikaze flight outside, where it's cold, to die so that their bodies aren't left inside the hive. So oftentimes in the snow surrounding a hive that's alive, if you see a bunch of dead bees, it's actually a good sign that the hive is still alive versus the opposite of what you'd think, but that means that they've been able to remove themselves on a day where they could fly out.
Speaker 3:So these mites that attack them, are they temperature sensitive in the same way that because you briefly mentioned about ticks and how it depends on the temperature outside for ticks how active they are and then extreme cold temperatures will kill off these ticks which we're having problems with now. But is it the same for mites that they can be temperature sensitive?
Speaker 4:So, yeah, the mites are definitely temperature sensitive, Like we grow them in the lab, and if you don't have the exact right temperature and humidity they'll die.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, that really awesome vibrating method that the bees use to, you know, keep themselves surviving through winter also works to keep the varroa mites surviving through winter and because they actually latch onto the bees and they'll feed. They're usually on their abdomen and they feed on both. They originally thought they fed on the fat and then they said they're feeding on the hemolyph, the blood, and now they've decided they feed on both but they can continue feeding on adult bees through the winter and then, as soon as that queen is laying again, now they've got the larvae and they can restart their reproduction cycle. So, coming out into spring, if you haven't dealt with your varroa mites, if your hive actually survives, there's a chance that you know if there's mites, they're starting to already reproduce as soon as as the queen is laying eggs again so you had mentioned a bit of the research where you talked about the, the anti-wasp entrance if we're on Yellow Jacket entrance, what other sorts of research you just mentioned?
Speaker 3:some now do you actually work on?
Speaker 4:So we are specialists in bee vectoring. So bee vectoring is where bees walk through a powder and they deliver that powder. So there's a couple of different ways that is used. So one of that is actually out to crops, so you can actually use fungi to protect crops against pests and disease, and those fungi are either entomopathogenic fungi, which means that they attack insects, or they're also fungi that are attacking other fungi. So we basically got two different types of fungi. So we talked about black mold on strawberries in our last conversation and so, yeah, that's one of the fungi that would be attacked by another fungi to, you know, keep before the flower turns into a strawberry, so that you don't actually get black mold on strawberries. So a lot of the berries benefit from bee vectoring out to the crops. And then for us, our protected bee is actually a system that directs the bees through the powder going into the hive and that that powder is that varroa mite powder.
Speaker 4:You can actually do different powders. We have antibiotics that are used for American and European fowl brood can use, be used really effectively in the system as well, and those are just other diseases that that are really detrimental to beehives but we didn't talk about. But it can be used for that. We can actually put probiotics in there. They can be vector in probiotics, and some of the experiments that we're doing now is actually vectoring out pollen to plants. So you can imagine, in areas so there's often plants that have a male and a female version, they they need to be blooming at the same time in order to have fertilization happen, and and so sometimes when those male and female plants are not blooming in synchronous, they will not get fertilized. But if we've actually isolated the pollen ahead of time, as soon as those female plants are open, then we can actually add that to the protectivity drawers and then we can actually have pollination happen.
Speaker 4:Where we talk about the asynchronicity of the bloom, but also where maybe you have issues where you just don't have a lot of land to have both types of plants, or the pollen has gotten washed away or you're looking at doing certain types of crosses. So there's lots of opportunities for bee vectoring pollination and that's like a new field of research that we're just getting into now. But yeah, it's really one of those things that requires a lot of research. Also, anything that's going into food has to go through food approvals, right, has to go through, you know food approvals so, and then in different countries you have to go through it with each country, and then, because it's also pesticides, you have to go through, you know, the EPA or PMRA here in Canada for approvals, and those approvals are expensive and uh and lengthy, and so we actually use the cells of our protect to be to raise money for research and to work on getting those those things for approval as well. So we're, you know, we're not really a for-profit company at all.
Speaker 4:We don't operate as a non-profit, but basically everything that we make goes right back into research, at Best for Bees Right.
Speaker 3:Well, interesting, that's certainly good and I appreciate the research because bees are obviously very well not obviously to some people, but people don't understand how necessary they are. And I had Mike Lanigan on talking about his organic farm. He mentioned about his beehives and the difference that it made with I think it was squash he was talking about, if I remember correctly how he went from four pounds to 40 pounds in immediately per in the area that he was had the bees in. When they had no bees he went to he only had four and then the same thing he had was a 40 or 400. I can't remember, but it was quite large. The same thing, it was a 40 or 400, I can't remember, but it was quite large. But how, dr Shelley, how do they extract the honey and the wax? How is that done?
Speaker 4:Well. So when the kind of have to understand the entire process of making honey, so honey goes into one of these frames that's very specific for honey, so they it's not going to be mixed with other bees or anything like that, so it's just honey. And when the honey has been, it reaches the right water percentage, that it's thickened enough and will not cause any issues during winter, they put a wax capping over that. And that wax capping is actually different than the wax that's used to make the cells in the first place. And so when we want to harvest that honey, we first of all have to remove the honey from the hives, and that's a whole process in and of itself. We need to make sure that the honey is capped at least 80%, or else there'll be too much moisture in our honey, which would cause it to ferment. And then we take it through the extraction process, and the extraction process begins with removing that capping wax from the top. So we use a knife uh, some, some places use like a heated knife, um, other ones can use like a, uh, like a, like a roller, if you will, with spikes, uh. And so you know, there's there's various ways to open up those cappings, but the capping wax is really the really nice wax that we like to use for candles and or like cosmetic products or beeswax wraps, like there's lots of things that you can use the wax for. And then, once it's opened, if you don't have a lot of hives and you haven't invested you can actually just crush it and just strain the honey from that. But for us we actually have a huge, huge centrifuge called an extractor, and so we put our frames in the extractor and then we spin it really really, really fast and the honey flings out onto the sides and it's very gratifying. You hear the, the, the, the, the, the, the. The honey is, uh, is flinging out and uh and yeah. So, um, yeah, we, we have an older extractor, so ours is not a radial extractor, so we actually it's a little bit flatter so we have to turn them around, but the people that have radial extractors can just make them go on the opposite direction and then the honey it's all come out and those are now wet frames. You can actually put them back to the bees and they're very happy to clean them up and store some more honey in it if it's still in season, and then that honey that's coming out is actually pretty clean. You'd be surprised. It's pretty clean. But we'll still put it through a filter. We use a hop filter, but you can actually get other mesh filters.
Speaker 4:We don't like to do our filtering too fine because we do like to have, um, there's not a lot of pollen in honey that comes through or anything like that, but we do try to, um, you know, not filter it too much. We definitely, you know, believe in a whole product, uh, and then, and then that just gets bottled. So, uh, there's, then that just gets bottled, so there's not much that happens after that. If you buy honey at the store, you'll find that it's pasteurized and that actually only has one effect, and that is it keeps it from crystallizing and it kills any yeast. So people who maybe are extracting their honey with too much water in it would have an issue with yeast and fermenting. So if they pasteurize it, then they don't have to deal with that. So, yeah, so that's sort of the whole process of the honey part.
Speaker 4:The wax that we've taken off it, uh, it has honey remnants on it and uh, and so it actually has to be washed. Uh, so that's just basically. We, we boil it and, uh, separate it, separate it out, so that's cleaned, and then it also goes through a filtering process several, several filtering processes to get to that really nice white color that people like, a few less if it's like yellow, if it's going to be used for like furniture polish or something a little bit more crude, we might not filter it quite as much to get to that point. And then the wax you know is going to be, you know, sometimes we'll just do squares, that we store it as, or you know, we'll put it in molds for candles or things like that as well, which, you know, there's no smell in the world that I love more than the beeswax smell. It's like the best smell in the world.
Speaker 3:I get a lot of people talk about pasteurized and unpasteurized and that for because people with allergies they say, oh, get local bee honey because it's from the areas that's there, but make sure it's not pasteurized because you don't want to kill off any of the benefits is. Is there any truth to that or is that more rumor stuff?
Speaker 4:uh, so so first of all, I am a scientist, so I'm not gonna there. I don't know of any research that specifically supports that that I would, I would you know, feel confident saying that's absolute truth. We do know that. You know there's definitely some particles of pollen that will be in the honey, because it's just in that same the same. There's enzymes, things that are very sensitive to temperature, that those protein links will actually be degraded at higher temperatures. So, in general, any food like that that you're trying to retain its most natural state, if you're going to heat it, you are going to be taking that away, right, and that would be the same if you were cooking honey or anything too, right, not just pasteurizing it, but in terms I sell honey, I have people who buy my honey in the spring and who buy it in the fall for allergies, and they swear by it. They take their teaspoon a day and say it really helps.
Speaker 4:And whether it's a placebo effect or a real effect. I actually, as a scientist, don't feel confident saying one way or the other.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:But definitely have a lot of people that feel that it is beneficial.
Speaker 3:But definitely have a lot of people that feel that it is beneficial. So one of the other rumors that I hear all the time not all the time, but when I listen, because I listen to these sorts of things all the time is make sure your honey doesn't touch any metal materials, otherwise you kill off all the positive enzymes and the materials found in the honey. Any truth to that at all and again, we know you're a scientist, but that's one of the rumors that I'd never heard, and I asked other beekeepers and they gave me an opinion on that. What's your opinion on that?
Speaker 4:Well, it's not an opinion, this one is a fact. Oh, it is so well, absolutely so. That extractor I just told you about it's stainless steel.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 4:Oh, every our knives are metal Like there's so many places that honey is touching metal before it ever reaches your metal spoon, that that you are using a metal spoon at home would not affect it. And no, the metal does not not at all affect the quality.
Speaker 3:Good Cause I can end that rumor now. Every time I hear it I saw it, oh, probably posting it, and there's so much stuff that's it's rumor and innuendo on on Facebook that people, oh, I saw this and you got to look this and has it touched metal? And so I started asking and that's the exact same thing that I heard from the other beekeepers Look, the extractor is all stainless and it touches it there. So no, there's no truth to that at all, which I'm glad to hear.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I don't think there's any beekeepers that are spinning in wooden contraptions or whatever like it would you know, for you know a long, long, long time. So, yeah, that is one of those that can easily be debunked.
Speaker 3:Yes. So, dr Shelley, tell us how people can find out more information, how can they get in touch with you about bees and where can they find out more and where can they get started if they want to start it on their own, or what associations are out there that they should look up for details and get more details about beekeeping?
Speaker 4:yeah. So let me start first with if you want to get into beekeeping, education is the most important part not getting bees, but the education part. So I really recommend that you join a beekeepers association before you ever get bees. And, if you can get your hands into bees, join a community beekeeping group, join an experienced beekeeper and actually learn about bees before you ever get bees. You're a lot more likely to be successful.
Speaker 4:When we talk about those death rates of 50 to 80%, that can be up to 100% for a hobby beekeeper, and going from being a beekeeper to not a beekeeper after winter is one of the most awful feelings in the world. So you know, make sure you're well educated and that you actually have time to take care of the bees, because it's not only just for yourself. The bees fly and if you're not taking care of your bees, you're also not taking care of all the other bees around you. So there's a huge responsibility with beekeeping. So the local beekeeping associations you should be able to find on the internet, like in Canada and the US and Europe and even South America. I've been to all those places. They have very active beekeeping associations.
Speaker 4:Don't trust Facebook groups or whatever. You know the people that give the most information have often the least experience. You know, the people that give the most information have often the least experience, and people like myself. I'm not sitting in a Facebook group telling people how to beekeep, I don't have time for that. So you know, it's just. You know that experience really, really matters in terms of leadership, in terms of the health of a hive, and uh.
Speaker 4:And then, of course, your local beekeeping. Um, if you have a local beekeeping store, uh, you know it might be two or three hours away from you. It's worth traveling there, talking to them, supporting them. It's been a really hard year for beekeeping stores and uh, and a lot of people are buying stuff off Amazon, but it's not good quality, they don't get that mentorship, they don't get to learn about what's happening in their, their little ecosystem of where they're located, and uh, and they lose a lot. So really try to support local beekeeping stores if you can, and uh. And then the other piece I want to say, too, is because a lot more of your listeners are just going to be buying honey.
Speaker 4:And if you really want to support all of these things, buying your local honey is the best honey that you can get, finding out what your beekeeper does in terms of keeping their bees healthy. I just recently found out I can't remember the percentage, but for something to be labeled Canadian honey, it only actually has to be like 80% Canadian, and then it can have honey from other countries. And what we do know is there's a lot of fake honey coming in. There's a lot of fake honey coming in. It comes from China, through Argentina and other places, and it's not even honey. So there's a good chance that whatever honey you're buying at the store, if it's not a local honey, it may not even be honey. And so buying from a local beekeeper if you can at your local market. But even if you're at your store, just look and see is it honey from your town? Because sometimes the beekeeper will have gotten their honey into the local store.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. That's what I say and I talk about that all the time. If you want to keep healthy bees in your area, support your local beekeepers by buying their honey. Yeah, quite frankly, you're probably going to pay a little bit more for it, but you're actually making a difference by supporting that those bees in your area and making sure that bees are healthy and keeping all that bees pollinate in our areas actively going and keeping them healthy and that's one of the best things to do whether it's a farmer's markets or the markets or those roadside stands that have honey for sale is a great way to keep local bees active and keeping those hives healthy by supporting them and buying their honey, which is a great way to do it, I believe.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. And then, finally, in terms of supporting pollinator habitat you know, planting for pollinators, things that bloom all year round, that feed your native pollinators, and being very mindful with what you're putting in, that it's not an invasive species. That's very important in terms of pollinators For our company, best for Bees. We always are looking for support. We're a small company, we do research. We're really really really out to improve bee outcomes, pollinator habitat. We work both with data as well as the field research that I've discussed, and so you know we always are taking in donations or in-kind support in any way. If you are a beekeeper, you can also look at our products online at bestforbeescom and we have the Protect-A-Bee that's on there. But you also talking about supporting your local stores. We do have our, do have our protect to be in lots of these small and bigger beekeeping stores, and so you can actually go in and buy from there as well. And uh, and that's a good way to support us and what we're doing here at best for bees.
Speaker 3:Very good. Well, dr Shelley, we really appreciate talking about bees and bees and all your expertise in it, and I'm certainly I learned a lot, and I hope our listeners have as well, here and around the world and it's just something a little bit different about what keeps things healthy and keeps us healthy and keeping bees healthy under the canopy. Thanks a lot, dr Shelley, for spending the time with us today.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for having me. It's been a real privilege. Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman.
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