Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 78: Rethinking Road De-Icing and Energy Solutions
A vibrant exploration of the outdoor lifestyle highlights construction challenges in freezing conditions, the medicinal Chaga mushroom, and the pursuit of sustainability in energy production in Saskatchewan. Personal anecdotes emphasize the joy of adventure, community, and growth while encouraging listeners to engage with their passions and surroundings.
• Conversation about the allure of fishing and the outdoors
• Insights on the medicinal properties of Chaga mushrooms
• Garrett's experiences working in extreme cold conditions
• Discussion on the potash mine and upcoming power plant
• Consideration of outdoor activity amidst construction demands
• Reflections on personal goals including running a marathon
• Highlighting the importance of community in outdoor pursuits
Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's Favorite Fishing Show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right Every Thursday, Ang and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Now, what are? We going to talk about for two hours every week. Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 3:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors From athletes.
Speaker 3:All the other guys would go golfing.
Speaker 1:Me and Garth and Turk and all the Russians would go fishing.
Speaker 4:To scientists, but now that we're reforesting and laying things free, it's the perfect transmission environment for life.
Speaker 5:To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it.
Speaker 1:And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are. Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by Indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world.
Speaker 2:On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode, and hopefully we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy. We can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy, all right? Well, it's great to be back in the studio and recording after a great holiday. I hope everybody had a great holiday and a Merry Christmas.
Speaker 2:And for those of you celebrating other events, I know Hanukkah was on the same day as Christmas, which only happens once every 19 years. So, for all those other individuals and all those peoples around the world celebrating other aspects, hope you had a safe and good holiday and a happy new year. And, as always, we want to thank all those listeners, Canada and the States and in Ghana and Switzerland and Trinidad and Tobago and I know we have a bunch in the Bahamas as well. So it was great to see everybody up from the Bahamas, with Josh's girlfriend, casey, and her family up. It was great to have everybody around. And, yeah, so we're back in the studio with, uh garrett, who's in from the west. Uh, well, the prairie promises great to be great to see you here, garrett.
Speaker 6:Yes, it's uh good to be back, good to be home, good to see everyone and uh good to connect there and good to be back for mom's birthday. So it was nice little surprise we did for her there yeah it, it was great to have you back.
Speaker 2:So, diane, my wife, who and I have been together since 87. So that will be 38 years this year we've been married and Garrett came out and brought his girlfriend, brittany. Brittany's from Calgary and Garrett working in Saskatchewan so great to have him out. So, garrett, give us a bit what's happening in Saskatchewan or what's going on out there, like how cold is it? What's taking place?
Speaker 6:Well to start. So I was off for the Christmas break there. But when we're working just up till Christmas break, it's been relatively cold. We were working in minus 45 conditions. Um, you know, there's many mornings where the truck was reading like minus 42. And then, with the wind chill is like minus 45, it got close to minus 51 time there, but it's been cold. Um, we're out there, uh, building a uh power plant, so it's going to be providing 10% of Saskatchewan's power. It's a new uh oil and gas one, so it's going to be providing 10% of Saskatchewan's power. It's a new oil and gas one, so it's going to be a big project out there. And, like I said, it's been cold, it's been not snowy, but like they get a lot of snow drifts out there. So all of a sudden you're like, oh, it's like not that bad and next thing, you know, you're in three feet of snow. So it's always a hit or miss out there.
Speaker 2:So explain this a little bit here, because, for those that are listening to the podcast would know that Garrett was last year. Well, actually now we're into 2025. So in 2023, he was working Site C, which was Canada's largest hydro dam on the Peace River in British Columbia, and they liked his work so much that they opened a spot for him at a potash mine in saskatchewan. But now you're not doing a potash mine, you're you're building something different with tydra. What's happened with the potash mine?
Speaker 6:so the potash mine is still going on. Um, it's just slowed down for the winter there, so they're only down to maybe five guys there for little projects here and there when they need them. Right now there's 15 of us in a rotation schedule for which is probably about half hour, 45 minutes away from the Potash Mine. It's a power station up with SAS power and it's going to provide 10% of Saskatchewan's power. So right now we're in the groundwork of the project. So right now we're in the groundwork of the project. So footings, building the main slabs for the supports, building the anchor points for all the steel work that will be going on there for the structures of the buildings. I know a lot of pipe fitters are there doing all the groundwork, running their pipes for all their what's going to be on with them, with all the oil and gas being processed for the power plant.
Speaker 6:But yeah, so the potash mine has kind of slowed down. They're still operating but they're just not going as full tilt right now due to the winter. They're keeping a minimum crew there just to keep it going, keeping up because they want to run as much as they can, but just because the winter conditions are there with the potash mine for SEP. They're just slowed it down a lot. So, like I said, we're back on a power station which is just outside of Wolverine. If you're familiar from, if you know Saskatchewan areas or not, it's Wolverine is along. I can't remember the highway number off the top of my head, but it's just about a give or take an hour outside of Saskatoon.
Speaker 2:Okay, so with the potash mine, then they can't pour concrete in the wintertime. I believe is there a temperature point. But if they can't pour concrete, then how are you doing jobs with the hydro thing? And so when the weather gets warmer and what kind of temperature does it need to be to go back, will you be going back to the potash mine and what's happening there?
Speaker 6:Yeah, so with the potash, mine like they technically still could pour concrete but the budgeting for that goes astronomical.
Speaker 6:It's through the roof kind of thing because heating and hoarding and such for large scales like when the projects are running you know half a football field length and wise it's hard to heat and hoard that in a budget that makes sense to do.
Speaker 6:So they downsize it into very small things. The project I'm on they're pouring concrete but their footing is that they're like 10 feet by 10 feet. There was a couple of big ones there that were about the size of a hockey ring for comparison, a couple of those slabs which is a big slab to pour in the wintertime because, like they said, they have to heat and hoard it and they have to maintain a certain temperature, for I believe it's 20 days or it's like 15 to 20 days. They have to maintain a certain temperature within that hoarding for the concrete to properly cure and then they can remove the hoarding off and then, if there's like remaining time for the concrete to cure, it doesn't matter because it's already. The outside's so hardened already because they're pouring about two meters thick of concrete by, like I said, about, maybe you know, 20 yards or 50 yards long kind of thing what do you mean hoarding?
Speaker 2:what is that referring to?
Speaker 6:so, hoarding is a structure that is um built by carpenters and it's more or less just like a, a tarp system. That's like a tent, more or less kind of thing, that allows when they run these big gas heaters, it's holding all the heat and so these tarps are insulated tarps. They're putting it up so they can get the, the wind and everything else cut off from the concrete securing process. So they call this hoarding and it's more or less like a big tent or the entire project. So for people who have like garages with like onion skins on them kind of thing, it's that kind of a concept, but these ones are insulated tarps.
Speaker 2:So these must be quite large. So what kind of power? So okay, so before we get to the power plant in Saskatchewan, what the potash mine will come back and they're going to need concrete rebar guys to do the potash stuff. When the concrete can be poured in for the potash mine and what time of year does that come in, when will they start doing stuff again there and what stuff that needs to be done?
Speaker 6:so it all depends on budgeting. But for temperature wise, I know the year before when they didn't have the budget, it was whenever the temperature reaches I believe it was minus 10 or it was minus, it was like minus 10 or 14 in that range is that's when they it becomes necessary to have heating and hoarding at certain levels of standards. Um, so the posh mine, I know two years ago now they closed on I think it was october 20th or like november 10th in that range there. Um, because it reached temperatures of minus 10 for consistent periods and if it's like one day here and there, that's not too bad, because they can manage that, but when it's like, you know, an entire temperatures of minus 10 for consistent periods, and if it's like one day here and there, that's not too bad because they can manage that. But when it's like you know, an entire week of minus 10 or minus 14, it's now, it's there's requirements for heat and hoard. So they shut down the site.
Speaker 6:Then this year they kept it a little bit, going a little bit more, just because, like I said, they're trying to push this project and so I'll be going back. Probably the time before was March, but they were a little bit slow because there was a cold snap that they had there. So things dialed off for about two weeks and then it got back to where it was roughly around, you know, minus five and relatively staying pretty warmer or continuing to get warmer as the days and weeks progress. Days and weeks progress, so probably around March would be the target time there is, usually when they expect winter to kind of start breaking to a point where they can maintain a certain temperature range that they need to for pouring concrete on larger scales.
Speaker 2:And so then, what will you be doing at the Potash Mine when it gets warm? But I thought it was like more April or even May last year. But so what do you be doing when the potash mine? Because I thought the slabs were all poured and done for that.
Speaker 6:So there's I believe it's four or five phases on this project. I can't remember how many mills are in total. So a mill is just like a processing station of the potash mine. So the first year when I wasn't there for it, they were doing mill one and they were setting up the area for the hoarding of the potash or the residue leftover or like the leftover ore from when they extract the potash. So that area was all completed and this year I was on mill two and then all the conveyor belts and the processing plants, so for footings, for all the steel structures to sit on, for all the, the piping and all the ventilation, everything else. We were doing all that this year and mill two, which is again the big slabs.
Speaker 6:And then, going back this year, there'll be mill three. We'll be starting up. The big bulk of the project is done. So they don't require the. I think it was they had like 60, you know 60, 70, 80 guys kind of thing. I think they're going to be going down to maybe 30 or 40 for mill three there. So that will be the. The next phase is going to be for our aspect of the job is mill three and that's going to be starting up in the spring, sometime or summer depends on what their budget and planning is.
Speaker 2:So when is it expected that they'll actually be able to start producing potash and taking? I imagine they can take it out of the ground, but it's probably a coordinated effort when they can start to take it out of the ground. But when do they think that the processing facility will be able to process it?
Speaker 6:Well, for the structural aspect of the actual processing of the raw ore and materials there, they have about three years of work.
Speaker 6:So after this winter because they're trying to go through winter for structural guys they will look approximately have two years left. So to be fully operational, looking at at least two years out, or it could be a year out depending, depending if they're breaking it up in phases and they're going to do extraction first and then starting to crush I'm not too sure their entire plan. But I know for the structural aspect, the actual processing of it, it's going to be at least three years of steel work there. But they are starting to. They've dug the main hole, they're starting to do a lot more underground work and I believe they said they were going to be ready to start pulling it out and stockpiling, because the stockpile areas are all more or less they have one or two phases set up for the stockpiling stations so they could probably start extracting within, maybe even this summer or next summer kind of thing start extracting within, maybe even this summer or next summer, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Now, I know that you're involved in the construction aspect, but I'm not sure if you know what the processing. So what do they do when they process it? Are you familiar? They just I thought they were taking a raw material out of the ground and I don't know if there's a separation, or is it just ready to go, or is it need to go? How does it refine? I don't know if you know any of that aspect about potash or not, because I know nothing about potash.
Speaker 6:So I'm not an expert on the potash like actual processing of it. But what I've been told and gathered information from everyone there is that they will pull the raw ore material out of the ground kind of thing, and from there they'll break it off because there's going to be other ores that are coming with it and I can't remember what they call it out there, what the leftover piles are. But what I did find out is when they process this, so they'll extract the potash and whatever leftover material there, it still has a very salty kind of base to it. Because potash is a very salty kind of base to it, because potash is a very like salty substance, they actually use it as more or less a sand type for their highways. So when they go and clear the highways out there and because they sand out west, they don't necessarily use a salt or, like you would expect, down in the States kind of thing, or in southern or lower points of Canada, like for southern Ontario, Toronto, where they use salt.
Speaker 6:The leftover ores they'll actually crush back up and refill the mines once they're fully done. But these mine operations are for 100 years give or take, and that's what they expect to go with. This one is about a 100-year process there. But what they'll do is the leftover material that, before they can start refilling everything back in, they'll take some of it and they'll use it on the highways for or sanding the highways as perspective. I can't remember what they call that leftover substance. I know it's like some people refer to it as tailings, but they don't call it tailings for some reason. It's just leftover ore there that's not necessarily potash but still has a salty kind of base to it, Not necessarily potash but still has a salty kind of base to it.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that you mention that because I know that in certain jurisdictions they actually don't use salt and the reason is because it's too cold, and when you're talking minus 45 and minus 50, the salt does not work because it's too cold. And it was actually the province of Ontario and I happened to be with the Ministry of Natural Resources I was the PA or the parliamentary assistant, kind of the junior minister, to Al Paladini, bless his soul, when he was a minister and in that ministry developed the research where now in Ontario and probably a lot of other jurisdictions, you'll see where they actually lay these lines of material, kind of a liquid, down that dries and then when it starts to snow, the snow will then activate this and it becomes a liquid. And what they found was in the past was that salt really didn't work that well until it started to melt and it was the melting of it that expanded the salt, that allowed the use of the salt to clean off or to get rid of the snow and the ice that was on there. So from that we found that these liquid slurries that are now placed on the highways everywhere are now much quicker and use a lot less salt in order to get the ice and the snow off the roads. Now also, though some people don't realize this that salt is actually a cumulative material, which means it doesn't break down. So when you put it on the road it washes to the side and it'll stay there and over time you'll get concentrations of salt in those areas.
Speaker 2:Now, when we were with the Ministry of Transportation, it was very interesting that Brockville down in that way Bob Brunson was the MPP for that area and I actually went down to Brockville because there was a significant number of wells that were contaminated from road salt used by the highway. And so you see, the problem was as I mentioned. So when it's a lot of rock like it is right there the Canadian Shield is right close to the top, not a lot of topsoil that salt will follow down into areas and actually contaminate huge amounts of wells in that area, in the Brockville area. So we had to come up with systems to account for the contamination that the road salt was doing in those areas. The road salt was doing in those areas, but this new system where they put the liquid on, does not require as much, so it reduces the amount of materials that go on there in order to get rid of the ice and snow and is a lot better for the environment. And that was something that the Ministry of Ontario Ministry of Transportation was key in the development of that and now it's used extensively in a lot of other areas. Transportation was key in the development of that and now it's used extensively in a lot of other areas.
Speaker 2:So basically, it'll be quite a few years for the potash mine before it becomes active. Now, in the meantime, you'll be back and forth, depending on weather, when they can get in to work on the mine. But you're working, as you said, with Saskatchewan Hydro. What kind of hydro development is that you're working on? That's going to, I think you said, accommodate about 10% of Saskatchewan's hydro. What kind of a generating plant is it there?
Speaker 6:Yeah, so the generating plant is going to be based off oil and gas. This concept is not new to us. It's been around for a long time of the way that they're converting this oil and gas, or the natural resource there, into power. It's actually the main or the main contractor would be SAS Power that provided the contract, which is bought out by Burns and Mack, which was then subbed out to a company that was on the Potash mine because it kind of makes more sense for them money-wise because all their material is already there. They only have the transport move it half an hour from the potash mine to the power station, um, and the company there is bird. So what's happening is burns and mac is the main contract holder and the issuer was sas. So they are an American-based company that specializes in oil and gas generating stations.
Speaker 6:I don't remember the exact wages and power producing from these stations, but if anyone has traveled through Saskatoon or through Regina or Saskatchewan, for the matter, or even through just the prairies, you know there's not a lot of activity in between the major cities.
Speaker 6:It's very far and few between, and most of their power probably just goes into the power lines, which more or less gets wasted because it's not being drawn enough. But this station is going to provide, like they said, roughly about 10% of Saskatchewan's power, which will feed their grid system, which is only going to be% of Saskatchewan's power, which will feed their grid system, which is only going to be in for Saskatchewan. They won't be exporting the production or extra material into the States, for example. They'll be keeping this one within Canada is what I've been told, and it will be oil and gas based, I believe. Well, actually I don't remember the total volume there, but I know the pipe sizes are roughly about one foot in diameter, so they'll be using a constant amount of gas and oil there, which, if anyone is in the expert there, I don't know what a one foot pipe and what volume of liquid could be moved through that, but they're relatively larger size pipes. They're bigger than what you would expect for a common household piping system.
Speaker 2:That sounds extremely large. So and you said it's out near Wolverine, saskatchewan, which I don't really know where that relates to Regina and Saskatoon, the major bodies, but there was some other stuff that I recall there's a lot of innovation taking place in the hydro generation. I know when I was in government up in Hearst, hearst, ontario, which is up basically here in southern Ontario we call it northern Ontario but realistically it's probably central Ontario based on the size of the province of Ontario Hearst actually had a it was a co-gen that used residuals over leftover parts from the forest industry. Now the forest industry, the lifeblood of Northern Ontario, is the mining and the forest industry and so with the forest industry, when they bring the logs in and they take the bark off, that's called a residual or a leftover material and they would take a lot of the residuals, like the bark or the core of the tree, depending on what trees they were using. A lot of that would be chipped up and they actually burnt that to generate hydro in conjunction with I believe it was a gas plant, hydro plant there.
Speaker 2:So they were burning the residuals to boost up the amount of hydro plant there. So they were burning the residuals to boost up the amount of electricity and it was just finding ways of utilizing that material, because a lot of that material would go to waste in a lot of different areas, and so this way it's being used. But sometimes you'll find that some of these things can be made into pellets for pellet stoves and stuff like that that are very beneficial, so in hydro. But you're talking about Saskatchewan Power Building this new one, but wasn't there some sort of a windmill project that was taking place in Saskatchewan as well that you, I thought you, were going to be affiliated with in some way, shape or form?
Speaker 6:So it wasn't in Saskatchewan. I believe there was a minor case there about putting up, I think, about maybe 50 windmills or so, but I don't know about Saskatchewan. But to correct you there, I think the one I was referring to was the one in Newfoundland which is going to be a huge project there because they were going to produce hydrogen and the hydrogen was going to be powered and supplied by the windmills. Now that deal was done with a European base taking the or more or less buying. What we were going to produce was hydrogen which was going to be focused around Germany. Now the experts have kept evaluating and looking into this and the technology to make it functional and successful at a rate that makes sense to produce at.
Speaker 6:The technology will not be up to date for at least another 10 to 12 years. I think they said so, about a decade. So if for us to start this project now, it would take us roughly about, I believe it would be about a five-year building or four-year building time, which still means there's still about roughly a good five to eight years before technology would be up-to-date enough to process the hydrogen to make it worthwhile to do this investment. So the major companies pulled out of the hydrogen aspect which left the windmills, because the windmills were supposed to be powering this up in the air. So they're not necessarily fully canceled, but the windmill part of it. It's on a standby.
Speaker 6:But however this, the Newfoundland government there has issued that they are going to be with support with Quebec, that they're going to be building a new hydro dam which is going to be I can't remember the size of it, but it's going to be like double the size of Site C. I believe at least is what I was being told that because this one's going to have, site C had six generators, this one's going to have I think it was 10 or 12, but it's going to be another huge dam and I believe they already said it's going to be between around $40 billion to $80 billion of total production there and this is going to start within probably I believe the surveys are happening this year, so ground break could be within maybe three years, maybe four, depends on how all the surveys go, but they're looking at probably starting this project within five, eight years.
Speaker 3:Back in 2016,. Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.
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Speaker 2:And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga Health and Wellness. Okay, I'm here in Millbrook with Trevor, who had a great experience and wants to share it with us with the skin cream, the Chaga skin cream. Trevor, tell us what you went through and how much you used, and go ahead.
Speaker 4:I've had eczema on my arm since I was a little kid and it's always been quite a rough patch there on my arm and no lotion seemed to ever get it so that it was smooth Right. But using the Chaga, probably for three weeks, it feels like normal skin now. Yeah, and how often did you put it on? I put it on maybe once every other day. I didn't remember to do it every day, so once every other day, one time a day.
Speaker 2:Very good and you had great results, and now it feels like normal skin again.
Speaker 4:Very good and you didn't try anything else, so you figure that's what. No, that was it worked, so I'm sticking with that.
Speaker 2:Very good. Well, thanks, trevor, here in Millbrook. Yeah, okay, we interrupt this program to bring you a special offer from Chaga Health and Wellness. If you've listened this far and you're still wondering about this strange mushroom that I keep talking about and whether you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of interest to you. To thank you for listening to the show, I'm going to make trying Chaga that much easier by giving you a dollar off all our Chaga products at checkout. All you have to do is head over to our website, chagahealthandwellnesscom, place a few items in the cart and check out with the code CANOPY C-A-N-O-P-Y. If you're new to Chaga, I'd highly recommend the regular Chaga tea. This comes with 15 tea bags per package and each bag gives you around five or six cups of tea. Hey, thanks for listening Back to the episode.
Speaker 2:So you had mentioned about hydrogen, the utilization of hydrogen. Well, and I recall the Premier of Alberta, daniel Smith, mentioning that they were going to focus on hydrogen development being used as an energy source which was great to hear, particularly from a province that is basically an oil and gas province that has huge amounts of oil and gas and to move forward with hydrogen, which is very good options. But when I was in I remember Bill Saunderson he was the Minister of Economic Development, I believe we went in to meet and he wanted me to come with him to meet the president of General Motors Canada at the time and I asked about this and this would be in the late 90s, so it would be about 97, 98. And there the president said that they had six hydrogen vehicles General Motors did already in production, but it was a refueling and all those things and all the hydrogen cells and how do you do it? And of course, hydrogen is very flammable and a very dangerous gas so it has to be managed in a way that can be effectively used.
Speaker 2:But it's kind of like propane. I remember propane. When propane vehicles first came out you know there was all the stories about explosions and things like that from propane. But the industry over time got developed and matured to a point where they were actually looking at doing or becoming far more efficient in using propane for a fuel. And it's the same with hydrogen. It's going to take time, it's going to take some energies, but the things that I'm hearing about hydrogen are that it's going to be potentially one of the key things in the future that we'll be able to utilize. But of course we'll all have the NIMBYs talk about how it can't be and shouldn't be, because now we're using water basically to separate water and hydrogen and oxygen and putting more oxygen in the air. Can you imagine that? Think about that, garrett. Here we have it, so that now we've got too much carbon in the air. But if we use hydrogen vehicles, the byproduct from a hydrogen vehicle is burn off the hydrogen and leaves oxygen. So that could be a big bonus.
Speaker 2:But not only that, but I recall some discussions with some of the nuclear power plants is when they were down. See, the way a nuclear power plant works is it operates at a consistent level and that's the absolute baseline level. So no matter what happens if the power goes out in an area, because when it starts producing hydro at a hydro plant, a nuclear power plant, it has to go somewhere and be used. So what they do is they don't deal with the peaks and the lows. Well, the peak, shall we say, or the high demand areas, is that they will operate at a level where there's consistency and that's the much demand. And then when there's huge, like at suppertime and those sorts of times is when they bring on the other generating stations to take care of the other loads, because it's too hard to have nuclear power go up with that demand and you can't really store it.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that they were talking about with the nuclear power plants was the potential for utilizing the energies to produce hydrogen. That could be used at later dates and it's just other ways. So that's pretty interesting. So, and do you know, have any idea? So if it's a newfoundland labrador in quebec, it's got to be over in the quebec side where they're talking about this new dam and is, is that something that, uh, you've been approached or have been discussions about participating in?
Speaker 6:um, so it's going to be in the labrador side of Newfoundland and Labrador, which is on the mainland of Canada there. So it'll be attached with the Quebec border and I believe it's going out of Churchill, which they already have a dam there already. But this is now. I don't believe it's an extension. I believe they've had multiple phases. There's an extension on a Churchill and then there's an entirely new dam going up in the Sarum area as well and this deal is going to provide more power into Quebec and I believe with the grid there they are going to feed into the States again with this one as well. I don't know the total estimate project for the new dam built, for the new project, how much they're supposed to be producing, but it's supposed to be a heck of a lot more. To sum it up really lightly there, without knowing the exact numbers of the job, but this was issued by the Newfoundland government, I believe just before the New Year's there. So if people want to look it up, you can. I'm sure there's a link there on the Newfoundland political science stuff like that.
Speaker 6:Staying information about this project. I know that surveys were looked at before a long time ago, but they obviously within a new project coming up. The surveys have to be retaken and assessed. I believe the project would be a little bit more express. Is talking to local guys out there that were on the Churchill project, you know, 40, 30 years ago kind of thing. They said the groundwork for the starting of this project was already more or less in place in anticipation for it. But now they've kind of more or less given us pretty much a go ahead for this project.
Speaker 2:But now they've kind of more or less given it pretty much a go-ahead for this project. Yeah, so, with some of the stuff that you're doing with working with Saskatchewan Hydro, so you're pouring small sites so you can use these hoardings things to be able to pour and do your pours in the real cold weather because they can manage those better. But when they're dealing with that, what kind of workers are they using? So you've got your rebar and your concrete people, but what other workers are involved in that kind of programs and how fast can they move these sort of things? It's just a minor scale in order to keep things flowing and to try and keep on track. Is that essentially what takes place?
Speaker 6:So what's going to happen with the workers on the site is there's several groups come in but it'll all be kind of broken up into phases and then there'll be overlap as well. So, like the first part about building the stand was going to be surveyors that are going to assess the land conditions, density of the soil, everything else. So you know, there's always consideration of if there's a landslide or movement or water levels or things like that that could cause a dam to shift and things like that. But it'll be. This dam is going to be located in on the churchill river, out of a gull island and the projects that are going to be all added on to this.
Speaker 6:So there'll be there'll be millwrights, there'll be iron workers, there'll be structural iron workers, there'll be reinforcing iron workers, which I classify under. There'll be carpenters, there'll be electricians. There'll be actually there'll be a really high demand for electricians because with dams they are very, very secure networks, because they are key aspects to a lot of like, even just Canada's safety, more or less, because it operates the grid and they can if someone's coming in and shut down, and they could shut down that power to all of Quebec or wherever this provides energy to. So there'll be electricians there, there'll be scaffolders, there'll be heavy equipment operators, laborers, pipe fitters the list goes on and on and on there, because there'll be a lot of overlap with this project here.
Speaker 2:So when you worked at Site C you were staying in a facility. It was kind of like we talked about that. Site C was Canada's largest hydro dam in British Columbia on the Peace River just outside of Fort St John. You stayed in these facilities that housed huge amounts of people and they had all kinds of accommodations in there. You mentioned some of the stuff and you can go over that, but what happens to the facilities and all that stuff that happens when the project's completed? Do they just tear it down, do they make it available, or do they turn it into a hotel resort kind of thing, or have you got any idea?
Speaker 6:Yeah, so I see, there I believe they had their housing was about for 2,800 people, I believe, which was the total size there, just for the one there, because then a lot of people were also staying in town Fort St John was the area there so a lot of supervisors, managers, were renting out houses, but I believe, total project I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but I think the highest amount of people they had working on the site, I believe, was over 3,000 or 4,000. And so that facility though, though, that they built, that housed all builder, it will remain there until, um, the project is like fully completed, because there's always finishing touches, little add-ons and little security things that they'll do, and it will be. It's more like shipping containers, and they'll eventually start taking and reducing the size of this facilities and they'll either move it to other places or they'll put it back into storage kind of thing, or they'll refurbish it for other purposes. So I know in Northern communities where, and for example, for classrooms and schools, I know they mentioned that these facilities can be converted into classrooms or school buildings and things like that as well. So I'm not too sure, when they start breaking that down, where all this stuff will go.
Speaker 6:But for this project in the Gull Island on Churchill River, there they'll definitely be reconstructing or constructing a new, more or less like a hotel, these shipping containers kind of thing but they're not like normal shipping containers, like a sea can kind of thing. They are like very like. They're very big, like, I'm going to say, boxes kind of thing, that they will break in and add walls and they'll build like all the like your private washroom and a bed and you get your own counter and there's no like a station for a TV or laptop and there's all the internet cables that go through it.
Speaker 2:So it's more or less it's like a hotel that they're constructing, but it is meant to be somewhat mobile when everything needs to be taken down yeah, I imagine some of these things that I'm seeing now are these kind of like fold up bunkies or micro houses that I've seen for sale on on um on the net may have been even been been Amazon where they basically fold out the walls. It's kind of like a bump out in a trailer, but it's flat buildings that actually fold out into complete units that could be utilized, and I imagine that would be something that would be utilized there. So when you're downtime now in Saskatchewan, are you staying in one of these facilities or how are you being accommodated in Saskatchewan and what takes place there?
Speaker 6:So this project isn't big enough. The power station there isn't big enough to provide its own housing and lodging for it. I believe there's only about 150 people where the potash mine there had. I believe that facility was like I think it was a 3,000 room facility kind of thing. So they don't have enough people to demand to build it. So what we're doing now is we are staying in Airbnbs or hotels kind of thing, and we are being reimbursed for those funds and Airbnbs or hotels kind of thing, and we were being reimbursed for those funds. So we are communicating or, apologies, we are transporting from Saskatoon to the Wolverine site which, like I said, it's about an hour outside of Saskatoon, and we have company trucks I think the main contractor started using a shuttle service as well, I believe now. But we are more or less just staying in hotels or Airbnbs.
Speaker 2:I think the main contractor started using a shuttle service as well, I believe now, but we are more or less just staying in, you know, hotels or Airbnbs, depending on price wise, what makes more sense for us. So then, with your downtime, it's imagine if you're in Saskatoon and I, but I don't know like what time, what time are you starting at and what time do you finish? If it's an hour drive to where you're working, what time are you out on site and what time are you finish? If it's an hour drive to where you're working, what time are you out on site and what time are you off?
Speaker 6:And how many hours are you working a day? So the whole rundown of the day would be I wake up probably around 4 o'clock, to get on the road around 4.30, give or take, the work starts around 6. And it goes for. We were doing 10 hours, but then right before they have a bit of a push because the holidays and things slow down. So they wanted to finish up some loose ends of the project so that way they weren't like being contempered with or worried about because of the winter conditions and everything else. So we were doing 12 hour days for the last week and a half there on the site, but most of the time it's just 10 hour days and then it's an hour back drive. So your day goes from, you know, 10 hours of work plus two hours of driving. So you've got 12 hours.
Speaker 6:And if you're doing a 12 hour day, then you were doing about 14 hours of being away. So when we get back, it's more or less it's just jump in the shower, make yourself some food and, if you have the energy for it, you would watch maybe 10 minutes of TV or a half hour. You would watch maybe 10 minutes of TV or a half hour, and then most of the time guys are going to bed, calling it a night kind of thing, because you just get so exhausted, because I think average is out when did some calculations like you lifting around 15,000 to 20,000 pounds a day on this project? So it's definitely something different, but it is more or less a. With the driving time too, you get pretty exhausted pretty quick. So downtime is just eating, maybe watching 10 minutes, having a call with your family members, and then it's like I'm going to bed because you're going to pass out on the phone call in 10 minutes later.
Speaker 2:Well, it certainly doesn't give you a lot of downtime to do anything else. I guess that's one way of saving your money is you haven't got a way to spend it, but now we're just finished the holiday season a few weeks ago. So it would be what two, three weeks ago, and Santa, or in this case, baba, probably gave you a little something that you can use to get ready for a season that you enjoy doing things. And what kind of stuff? Will you be able to do? Any of the stuff that, the stuff that baba gave you?
Speaker 6:yeah, so I uh, you know, I asked santa this year, or baba, I asked for a fly tying uh kit there and stand. So, like I said, my downtime I'm usually it's not quite time hands for me. I usually am about an hour before I start hitting out because I'm still, uh, the young guy and I'm still full of energy where I know the other guys are like, how do you stay up all night or how do you do this? I'm like I don't know. Sometimes I just run on four hours of sleep and good to go, and then next thing you know, I'm like, oh, I need a full eight hours tonight and I go to bed early.
Speaker 6:But yeah, so I got fly tying kit because when I'm out west, fly tying is a very big event there and I like to start getting in there on the side just to, you know, distract your mind from the world, get a little focus, tie some flies, do a little more fishing, learn the land a bit better, kind of thing of like what bugs are in the area and stuff like that.
Speaker 6:Because one thing that was always uh, surprising was when we were on the potash mine there, just as the fall was, or fall, the winter was coming. We we're starting to reduce manpower on the site. There was like millions and millions of ladybugs were actually flying over the site where you could just put your hand out and you'd probably have about 50 laying on your hand within 10 seconds, kind of thing, and I remember they were just crawling all over me. So just different landscape from back from Ontario to Saskatchewan there. So it's just something to learn a bit more about. Oh, like for fishing, now it's like hey, if there's ladybug hash like, are they eating the ladybugs, are they not? Are they eating larvae Like? So it's definitely something to keep your mind a little bit more focused on and things that I like to enjoy in my free time. So I'll definitely be looking to tie some more flies there and get into that.
Speaker 2:Now, when you're out there working, obviously you're not fly fishing in minus 45 degree weather, but during the other days do you get rain days off and weather days off that you'd be able to get out and do some fishing, or you guys are working regardless of the weather?
Speaker 6:Most of the time we're working regardless of the weather, unless it's like extreme conditions. For example, I believe Saskatoon. I know each site's different, everyone's tolerance is different, but they said we work until minus 48 or 50. So when it was minus 45, you think, oh, that's got to be cold enough, like no, it's minus 48 or 50 when they decide to shut things down. But mind you, there's other times where they probably have shut down the site or things happen because when it was minus 45 there for I think it was like a five-day stretch um, one of the cranes there completely froze up and they couldn't get operational because the the engine block and it was so cold it just wouldn't turn over.
Speaker 6:Um, but during the summer times kind of thing, when it's raining and more ideal fishing or conditions for fly fishing, um, if it's a severe storm and too windy kind of thing and depends what work is, when they can't fly steel because his cranes are too windy for them to fly, and stuff like that, um, we do get maybe the odd day off, but most of the time it's. You know, you're working every day at least 10 hours. Um, but there is the odd times where oh well, when conditions picked up where we did all we could do, that we had prep ready to go. We can't fly steel, so we're going to call it for eight hours, but you know, in the summertime, when it's still light out until about, you know, 10 o'clock at night, you can definitely get an hour or two outside of camp to do a little bit of fly fishing if you wanted to.
Speaker 2:Well, Well, that's great and it's great to have you here, garrett. I'm glad you came in. I know mom very much appreciate you and Brittany coming out for mom's birthday. And for those that don't know, baba is Ukrainian, although for grandmother and a lot of those Slovak languages have a Baba. So just so you know who Baba is. For those who are listening and for those that don't know, baba actually turned 90 last October and I had her into the chiropractor today getting fixed up and this lady still goes lives by herself where she is an inspiration of how to live mature life, long life, with great quality, because she's out two, three times a day, walking 45, 50 minutes, 68 kilometers, two, three times a day anyway. So it's great to see and, yeah, baba provided garrett with a fly fishing, fly tying that vice, and which is great. So, but other than that, uh, what else is happening out there that you you need to let us know about, or you think you should, as an update for what's happening with, uh, garrett?
Speaker 6:well, I guess. One other thing a big change that's uh coming up, I guess is I lost my fancy football. So my punishment is I have to train for a half marathon now. So it'll definitely be interesting to work 10 or 12 hours a day and go. Well, I got to go run for at least half an hour until I pass it on the street, kind of thing. But I'll be training for a half marathon, which I got to run.
Speaker 6:They're pushing me to run in like the spring, but with weather conditions, everything else and with work wise, I know my schedule might be better running in the summer. So I'll probably be running my half marathon in the summer there, and I gotta run in a football jersey too. So it's gonna be a bit of a bit of a struggle because I'm more of a elite distance from a short. If anyone knows the lord of the rings reference there, I'd be more of like a gimli in, like elite distance from the short. Um, because I obviously was also trained my whole life for short explosive. I played, you know, uh, or ontario rugby and junior hawk and everything else, which is definitely not a marathon by all means, but you still have some endurance. But it's more or less short stuff. So it'll definitely be a big change and that's something I'm going through in my life.
Speaker 2:Now for my uh 2025 goals that's interesting because I know that was something in training that was very hard for people to understand. I know we had some kids when I coached rap hockey, aaa players that ended up wanting to be long distance runners and the problem with that was it's you're training your body for a long, slow term release of energy, as opposed to what it is in rugby when you played for the Ontario provincial rugby team, or football when you played high school football or hockey when you played junior and all that. It's a short, explosive runs. So it's very different energy releases and different training formats that you need to move to, and I know that was one of the big problems I had when I was much younger. I was offered a tryout for the Toronto Argonauts and I was training wrong. I was training three times a day running four miles as part of my training program, which was completely wrong for football.
Speaker 2:Short, explosive is what you need, not that long-term, long-distance, slow release of energy. But anyways, great to have you here, garrett, always a pleasure, and thanks for listening to the podcast. We really appreciate that. It's something a little bit different that we're talking about. It's kind of an update of what's happening with Garrett and some of the projects that are out happening out there in the wild, out there under the canopy. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 6:Yeah, thanks for having me. Like I said, it's always a pleasure and always happy to come home and be there. And yeah, like I said, there's a lot of new projects starting up. Things are definitely changing in the world and demands are changing. Technology's changing, so power supplies in canada is one of our big strengths there. So, like I said, the new hydro dam was released in just over new year's there. But all the information about that one and yeah, like I said, always a pleasure to be here, always a pleasure to be able to provide one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges.
Speaker 7:I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.
Speaker 6:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more fishing than it was punching.
Speaker 1:You so confidently?
Speaker 7:you said hey, pat have you ever eaten a drum? Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.