Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 85: How Government Shapes Our Wilderness
Jerry Ouellette, former Ontario Minister of Natural Resources, and Mike Holland, who held the same position in New Brunswick, reveal how they navigated government systems to achieve meaningful conservation victories.
Jerry's innovative classroom hatchery program stands as a testament to creative problem-solving—targeting schools along waterways to transform potential polluters into stream stewards. By involving students in raising and releasing rainbow trout, he created both environmental improvements and a generation of conservation-minded citizens. Today, tens of thousands of rainbow trout return to these streams annually, a testament to how small, strategic interventions can yield remarkable results.
Mike Holland approached his ministerial role with similar pragmatism. After founding the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation, he leveraged his position to establish New Brunswick's first-ever turkey hunt—defying bureaucrats who had repeatedly deemed it impossible. His department became the only financially self-sustaining branch of government by recognizing conservation's economic potential alongside its biological importance.
The conversation shifts to the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation's remarkable journey from "two guys in a half-ton truck" to a national organization with chapters across the country. What makes this story particularly fascinating is how chapters thrive even in provinces without turkey hunting seasons, demonstrating a commitment to conservation that transcends specific species or activities. Their youth "hoot and shoot" programs teach comprehensive outdoor education, producing conservationists who now work professionally in natural resources.
Whether through classroom hatcheries, turkey habitat restoration, or youth mentorship, both leaders demonstrate that effective conservation requires connecting people with nature in meaningful ways. Their shared experiences offer a masterclass in turning passion into policy and obstacles into opportunities.
Ready to join the conservation movement? Visit CWTF.ca to find your local chapter and become part of this growing community dedicated to preserving our natural heritage.
Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's Favorite Fishing Show, but now we're hosting a podcast that's right.
Speaker 2:Every Thursday, Ang and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Now, what are we going?
Speaker 1:to talk about for two hours every week.
Speaker 2:Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 3:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
Speaker 2:We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes All the other guys would go golfing Me, and Garth and Turk and all the Russians would go fishing To scientists. But now that we're reforesting, and everything.
Speaker 4:it's the perfect transmission environment for limestone To chefs, If any game isn't cooked properly marinated, you will taste it.
Speaker 2:And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are Outdoor.
Speaker 1:Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside.
Speaker 2:Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by Indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of this strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world world.
Speaker 5:On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode and hopefully we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy. Okay, first of all I want to thank all my listeners, both in Canada, the States around the world, switzerland, trinidad, tobago. We really appreciate you listening to the podcast and, as always, if you have any questions or comments or you want to hear any shows, let us know. We'll see what we can do to get it on. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to find the experts, but I got to tell you, when you have number one dinosaur experts on, or the number one mycologists around the world and things like that, we work at it to get it done. But today I've got a special guest a former minister of natural resources imagine that from new brunswick, mike holland. Welcome to the program, mike.
Speaker 6:Good to be here. It's always a pleasure to meet with a former colleague in the ministry.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's interesting, and I know now did your file in New Brunswick? Did it cover forestry as well?
Speaker 6:Yeah, it covered forestry, natural resources and energy development is what they called it. So it had forestry, crown lands, ministry, mining um, fishing game, all of the wildlife, um, I had indigenous affairs as well, okay, so basically anything natural resources. Oh yeah, I had a hand on it.
Speaker 5:So very good, it was an awesome portfolio I loved it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's. Uh. Well, I know in ontario used to say it was the best ministry in government. Because you know, in in northern ontario, um when, when it didn't matter if you're standing in a hospital or in a school and government. Because you know, in in northern ontario, um when, when it didn't matter if you're standing in a hospital or in a school and people asked you where you worked, you said the ministry in ontario. That meant ministry of natural resources. So absolutely, yeah, yeah, interesting stuff. Uh, and how's the familiar? How's the salmon doing the atlantics and well, I don't think the atlantic salmon.
Speaker 6:They've got some real challenges in a lot of different spots, wherever you see them, Whether it be I mean, New Brunswick is famous for its Atlantic salmon. The Miramichi River is historic, but even in areas like Newfoundland and Labrador the Eagle River in Labrador, the Torrent River system in northwestern Newfoundland they've had some struggles and some challenges as well. You know, we've got a number of different things and everybody thinks they've got the answer as to what the problem is, but I think it's a collection of issues that are creating some significant problems for them. I would certainly put them as a species that's In concern yeah, of concern.
Speaker 5:Yeah, atlantic's. Now I don't know about yourself, but I am. When I, when I was well prior to being minister in ontario natural resources, um, I created a, developed a technology myself. I made classroom fish hatchery programs. Well, that's awesome. So, and for like 200, 250 bucks, um, we would take um fish, uh equipment and rear in our case in about a dozen schools in Oshawa, where I'm from, and then I would do a whole session with the kids. So there was a video I'd supply them. It's called the Way of the Trout and it talks about the life cycle and all the predators and things like that. And then we would take eyed-up eggs and I'd take the kids down to the stream. I had groups like Kiwanis cover the cost for busing and you can tell when it's interesting when the parents are pushing the kids out of the way to get in front to see what's going on.
Speaker 6:Absolutely, that's a great field trip.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so what we do is we go in with electroshocking equipment and it kind of works like a moth to light at night and basically it looks like a metal detector and it's got a grounding wire on the backpack that you carry and you walk through the water and you just wave this wand around and the fish puts a little electric current out. The fish are drawn to it, and then they get shocked and they come up. They just momentarily stun for just a second, and that's when netters grab them, and then we extract the eggs in the milt and it goes back to a hatchery. They blend it there and then we actually put the eggs in fish aquariums and we do what's called a swim up hatchery. So well, the eggs hatch, they're absorbing the yolk sacs and once the yolk sacs are absorbed, that's when they start to feed, that's when we release them, because if you get a couple thousand in a small aquarium, they start going to the bathroom. Yeah, you start to get contamination. So, yeah, so we do a squamopatry, but the end result is we put hundreds of thousands of rainbow trout in oshawa creek and a number of creeks in the area.
Speaker 5:Well, that's awesome, and we have tens of thousands now returning on an annual basis and the results of it now right so to me, but there was a little bit of method to my madness as well. It's. All the schools I targeted were on the stream, so, rather than throwing shopping carts and crap like that in the stream, actually they saw value in it now and so the kids started to respect it. Yeah, started, and possibly you know stuff like that with atlantic salmon or the atlantic salmon foundation federation, I think it is. Yeah, asf, yeah that. Uh, you know there's, there's different ways to go about it and there is.
Speaker 6:I think that you know. I'm inspired to hear you say that, because in the maritime region, I think it's incumbent upon groups like ASF or MSA, or there's a few different groups MSA is. Miramichi Salmon Association. Okay, that Miramichi River system is historic. I don't know if you've ever fished it or not?
Speaker 6:No, I haven't had the privilege, but it's well known and and the returns have been dismal in that area and and there's there's groups and and uh, e-ngos that have put together initiatives, private sector, uh funding to to create, um, exactly a situation like you're talking about. You know, pull, pull out, yeah, raise, and then, and then, at the right time, uh put back into the river system so that they'll identify with and then, at the right time, put back into the river system so that they'll identify with that and then return. The biggest issue, of course and I'm talking to, maybe, preachers of the choir but governments usually become the sticking block or bureaucracies, or bureaucracies within them. Yeah, I mean, I worked with DFO, I was a provincial minister, but working with the Federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
Speaker 6:I think that we need to work to strengthen that relationship, because DFO has two different river systems in the province of New Brunswick. What's allowable in one is not allowable in the other, and sometimes common sense and biology doesn't. It's an arbitrary line that's drawn. So I think we need to bring common sense and tear down those bureaucracies and organizations like, well, the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation, atlantic Salmon Federation it doesn't matter whether you're hunting or a fishing organization. I like Toronto Sportsman Show. I like venues like this because we need to align more Right as united voices versus fractured entities. We can get a whole lot more done.
Speaker 5:Right entities, we can get a whole lot more done, right, yeah, and to me, what I try to do is to reinstitute some pride in the classrooms along the stream and then give those kids some encouragement, and I know quite a few of the schools actually developed fishing clubs and things like that as a result. So kids got into fishing and they appreciate it. But the result is right now we're at the Toronto Sportsman Show and it's basically about the second week in March. By the end of this month, if you were to come down, you would see tens of thousands of rainbow trout coming up the Oshawa Stream. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 5:And it's great to see, and part of those kids are all part of that and they have a pride in it.
Speaker 6:Now so they help with the environment. Well, you said something right there. Not only is it a pride in the wild resource, but it translates to garbage not being like. People are taking that seriously. So that's an initiative that has consequences, intended or unintended, that are beneficial.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so there's all kind of stuff. So yeah, I know because I'm a big Atlantic fan. Now you work with a buddy of mine, the post company of the outdoor radio journal, ang. He's not a big Atlantic fan. Now you work with a buddy of mine, the post company of the outdoor radio journal, ang. He's not a big Atlantic fan in Ontario, but I was the one when I was minister that started the program here in Ontario for bringing Atlantics back in and I know that in the classroom hatchery program we reared some browns as well.
Speaker 5:Brown trout but rainbows were the easiest because it was the time of the year that kids when they're in school and it was interesting and I used to go to check and I remember one guy he had signs because it was in the library. No, the eggs have not hatched yet.
Speaker 3:Because the kids were driving him crazy that they cared so much about it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's awesome. But you know, as minister, we kind of encourage those people to get involved and make a difference just like you by being the minister Yep.
Speaker 3:So what were?
Speaker 5:some of your favourite files that you ended up working with I was very proud of the fact that.
Speaker 6:See, I didn't intend to be a politician. I've been involved in outdoor organizations since I was old enough to be involved New Brunswick Wildlife Federation, canadian Wild Turkey Federation, Ducks Unlimited, delta Waterfowl. I grew up in the outdoors and at the age where I could be involved, I always got involved in these organizations and one of the things I realized was that government initiatives were required but very cumbersome and many times got in the way of common sense initiatives. So I was a founder of the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation and in New Brunswick we wanted to institute a turkey hunt. Lots of dynamics to that.
Speaker 6:But I saw an opportunity and I knew who was going to become the premier and I went to him and I said if we work together and I run, I essentially made a deal with him that he would give me the opportunity to get under the hood of DNR natural resources and do some things that have been needed to be done for a long time. So I was very proud of the fact. I mean we accomplished over 300 policy changes in a short period of time. We instituted, for the first time ever, a wild turkey hunt in the province of New Brunswick. It's entering its fifth year of success right now. Where did you get your birds from.
Speaker 6:They were there. Oh, they were there already. They were there, yeah, oh, really, One of the contentious issues was I mean, trap and transfer is typically the way that you'd do it. Organizations were logjamming it and we weren't going to be able to move forward with it. So I said, what if we look at the huntable populations that we have there now?
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 6:You've got to find a way to get around it. Well, we faced a lot of difficulty with that, but it was a very satisfying day when, prior to being elected, I was told no, we can't do that. But it felt pretty good on the first week when they said yes, minister, we'll get right on that, because it was a project that I was committed to making happen and it was a way to do it Very good. I had to teach the staff how to think in terms of possibilities, though not the reason why we can't well, you mentioned teaching the staff, I mean.
Speaker 5:So I recall the same thing when I was minister and it was the same thing. We had a problem with deer, yeah, um, in a number of wildlife management units wmus in ontario and so the bureaucracy came in with a plan to uh reduce the number of deer in the areas. The way they tell is by crop damage and the number of car accidents. Yep, uh is the number one determining factor for how we increase the harvest. And I said, look, rather than just increase the numbers, why don't we look at an economic stimulus? What do you mean? Because we're in the biology department, we're not into generating revenue 100%. So I said, look, I said I got to tell you I have a crew of 16 people, avid deer hunters, close friends of mine, on and on. I said, but not one of them has a muzzleloader. If we bring in a muzzleloader season, all of them are going to buy muzzleloaders and stimulate the economy.
Speaker 5:And in that population right and then so we got an extra season and guess what? There were 16 guys that all had muzzleloaders now yeah yeah. So it stimulated a bit of the economy and it's a small thinking like that. So they said, well, what should we do with licenses? Should we just issue two licenses per tag? I said no, If somebody wants a second tag, they can pay for it. They can pay for it.
Speaker 6:Right we to so often marginalize the outdoor community?
Speaker 6:Society can take an anti-hunting approach and sometimes we're to blame for that because we feed that stereotype of just being drunks that shoot road signs out of the window of our truck, right, but one of the things I worked hard on was to raise the bar about what legal, ethical, responsible outdoors people as hunters are.
Speaker 6:We're conservationists and, as a result, not only are we here to do the right thing, there's money there if you expand our industry, yeah Right, like salmon are having difficulty. In the Miramichi, the Miramichi Striped Bass Association was formed and created an event that does $5 million worth of GDP in a weekend for that one area. So I had a great time trying to convince my non-outdoors colleagues and premier that we had a benefit to the economy, not just managing wildlife, not just dealing with biologists, but there's a bigger picture there, where even the turkey hunt. The application for the draw led to that year an additional five figures in income for the Department of Natural Resources. When I left, one of the things I was proud about was that the Department of Natural Resources was the only self-sustaining department in the halls of government. That's good, because we did a lot of things that just made sense.
Speaker 5:Well, it's the same. One of the things that I did before I was minister was I brought elk to the province of Ontario. Yes, I heard that. Yeah, and so I worked a deal with Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation because they're the processing agent for Elk Island, alberta, and we were able to bring them in in a number of locations and that stimulated a hunt in those areas. But there's all kind of viewing and all kind of other opportunities that are now utilized by other groups and organizations. So in my, I always wanted to have elk in ontario, which we do have now, yep, and so when we do those things and get those kind of results, it's kind of satisfying to some extent, but most people have no idea how they actually come about oh, it's like the duck on the pond.
Speaker 6:It looks like there's nothing happening on the surface, but the legs are beating like the band underneath the water. Yeah, it takes a lot of work. Every overnight success was years in the making, as they say so, your Striped Bass Association.
Speaker 5:so how is that in New Brunswick?
Speaker 6:Well, the Striped Bass Association, like the Miramichi River, has a large population of striped bass every year. It's a phenomenal fishery, right, and to give you a little context, I grew up in that area and so I'm 55 years old Never saw a striped bass when I was a young fellow, going down to the river Right With my cane, pole and lure. I'm not Huckleberry Finn, but back in those days never saw it. Hole and lure I'm not Huckleberry Finn, but back in those days never saw it. Then, within the last 10 or 15 years, the cycle came back and it was an amazing fishery and during that time it was something interesting. My father told me oh yeah, I remember fishing those when I was a kid, really. And then so I did a little digging in it and they're a native species to the river system, but it's cyclical.
Speaker 6:How long is that cycle? A generation, really? Yeah, it's generational, and then you'll see them dip and go on. So I think it's important and I believe, as natural resource stewards, we can't protect the salmon at the expense of another native species. We can't exterminate salmon, considering their historic and and invaluable nature, never mind first nation significance. On on salmon, we got to work together and find out where those balances are and as those striped bass, uh cycles, move, when they're at their highest, it will have an impact on salmon, but we also have to make sure that we protect it so that it doesn't go too low to the bottom Right and then, you know, adversely affect that cycle Well.
Speaker 6:Ange and Pete were big straight passers. They've been up to the. I've seen them. They've been in New Brunswick. I've sat with them a few times.
Speaker 5:I never fished with them on the boat but I've been there when they were out fishing, and they love it Well you're here in the economic generation, economics that are generated from a lot of the activities. There's one there that I worked with, ange after I was out of government, and people don't realize this. Carp fishing is huge in some countries in the world.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I know In Ontario it's a garbage fish. Yeah, I know Nobody wants to waste their time Not really. Well, one lure, one hook for a carp is like $15 for one hook, Just a hook. And the rods are spending thousands of dollars for these $2,000, $3,000 for a carp rod, and when they hold these World Carp Tournaments they bring in all kind of revenue. So we worked and Ontario's now set that it could potentially host a world carp fishing tournament. That's awesome, yeah.
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Speaker 5:And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga Health and Wellness. Okay, here we are in Lindsay with Bill, who's actually? This gentleman has given blood over 230 times 233, yeah, 233, and that's amazing, and you've had some success with Chaga. Tell us what you're dealing with and what you did and how you what you used.
Speaker 7:Well, I had mild high blood pressure. Mild high blood pressure wasn't very really high, but I was on medication for a few years. And then I quit drinking coffee and started drinking this tea, the combination tea, the green and the Chaga Right, and my medication is gone.
Speaker 5:Your medication's gone, gone and you couldn't give blood during the other times. Yeah, I could.
Speaker 7:Oh you could, I could, yeah, yeah, so, but a few times the machine kicked me out. Oh yeah, so, but now it doesn't anymore.
Speaker 5:So you think the green tea and the chaga helped normalize your blood pressures?
Speaker 7:Oh yeah, oh very good, because it wouldn't be just stopping coffee, it would have to be something else.
Speaker 5:And that's the only thing you did differently.
Speaker 7:Yep, well, thank you very much for that, and my blood pressure is probably that of a 40-year-old man, and I'm 71. Oh, very good.
Speaker 5:Well, that's good to hear. Thank you very much for that. No problem, okay. No problem, okay. We interrupt this program to bring you a special offer from Chaga Health and Wellness. If you've listened this far and you're still wondering about this strange mushroom that I keep talking about and whether you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of interest to you. To thank you for listening to the show, I'm going to make trying Chaga that much easier by giving you a dollar off all our Chaga products at checkout. All you have to do is head over to our website, chagahealthandwellnesscom, place a few items in the cart and check out with the code canopy C-A-N-O-P-Y. If you're new to Chaga, I'd highly recommend the regular Chaga tea. This comes with 15 tea bags per package and each bag gives you around five or six cups of tea. Hey, thanks for listening Back to the episode. So now, mikey, you're doing something a bit different. You're with the Canadian.
Speaker 6:Wild Turkey Federation.
Speaker 5:Tell us a bit about that. How did you get started?
Speaker 6:Well, so this goes back historically. I was a district director for the National Wild Turkey Federation, the US organization, when they were here in Canada. I was the district director for New Brunswick. A good friend of mine, terry Smith, was the district director for Nova Scotia and, as you may know or may not know, the National Wild Turkey Federation rather quickly left the Canadian landscape. Yes, I know?
Speaker 6:Yeah Well, I was promoting them at a fish and game dinner and got out to the truck and got an email that it was done. So it was rapid when they had to and they had to, and at the end of the day, there's a number of reasons for that. But at the end of the day, there's a number of reasons for that. But at the end of the day, we were stuck with an organization that was making momentum and in New Brunswick I knew that we could get to the point of having a turkey hunt. And then so Terry and I talked to each other that night and we said, well, we're not going to quit. So we formed I was going to form the New Brunswick Wild Turkey Federation, terry was going to form the Nova Scotia Wild Turkey Federation and Terry was going to form the Nova Scotia Wild Turkey Federation. And then we thought, well, why don't we just look at combining it? We felt like Atlantic Canada was where we were going to focus on, but we thought, if we're going to do it, let's do it across the country. And so that was 11 years ago. And then so we started that. Terry Smith became the president, I was the vice president. We fleshed out a board of directors and we started setting up chapters all across the country and putting these banquets together. Of course, subsequently I had the vision of making sure that we had turkeys hunting in New Brunswick, so I took a detour to become the Minister of Natural Resources. Terry continued with the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation.
Speaker 6:We've grown in areas we focus a lot on youth. We do hoot and shoot campaigns where we bring youth to areas where we can mentor them, teach them all about environmental responsibility what's a red oak leaf, what's a white oak leaf? So we're not taking them out and just teaching them about hunting. We're teaching them about carrying capacity of habitat. We're teaching them all about what ideal areas are, identifying turkeys, understanding them, safety for hunting, particularly safety for hunting turkeys and then we take them out and measure their aptitude and if they have the aptitude for it, we'll take them out and mentor them on a turkey hunt. Oh, very good. We have three guys that I know of now that are adults, that came through that program, that work in the natural resources field. Very good, we're very big.
Speaker 5:And from day resources field. Very good, we're very big, and from the day one was about fostering and encouraging the next generation to pick up the mantle and come. Yeah, I remember because I used to. Long before I was, I worked in the outdoor industry. Um I uh, so I was on the board for safari club, uh yeah, life member. Ontario federation of anglers on her life. Men of rocky mountain ale. Life members south central fishing game and on and on and on everywhere. Just like yourself. That's what I was going to say. That sounds really good.
Speaker 5:You know we used to do it would be every other week. We'd go into a well same with Rough Grouse Society they're gone Wild Turkey I used to do a couple of dinners with them a year, and then DU and all the other ones and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, foundation, foundation for North American Bees, you do them all. But so now they're coming back. And can you give us some insight of what happened there? Because I remember and I was kind of disappointed- yeah.
Speaker 6:Well, when the NWTF left, we kind of tried to fill the void. Understand that the National Wild Turkey Federation is a longstanding, well-established, well-funded national organization. Right, the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation started out with two guys in a half-ton truck. Right, trying to make it work and by Jumbas, to our credit, we were able to take very little resources and spread it out across the country. So we have a network of chapters Ontario, new Brunswick, nova Scotia, newfoundland, different areas and we hold fundraising dinners. We're at a much smaller scale than what the National Wild Turkey Federation ever would have been, right, but we always wanted to be a self-sustaining organization. Covid did give us an awful run through the ringer, yeah, but I'll tell you what. Many organizations didn't come through the other side. And we were able to come through the other side A little battle-worn, and so when I finished my term, I had always made the agreement with Terry that I would come back and bring my set of skills to it.
Speaker 6:I'm an organizer. Terry is a make-it-happen, ready-fire aim, so to speak. I'm an organizer, we work very well together. So now I'm back and putting infrastructure together supply chain, distribution agreements, uh, chapter relation stuff and now we're going to take we, after 11 years we've got a nice little organization that's that's doing okay. Now we're going to take it to the point where we're going to be able to continue to grow it because for us, being just a small ragtag organization, we've influenced and invested in in in thousands of youth um good programs over the over the course of the last 10 years so, mike, you said you had a number of chapters in ontario.
Speaker 5:Do you know how many off roughly uh?
Speaker 6:there's four or five chapters in ontario there right now. We had a couple more than that. Now I'm just newly back in the reins. I just went to a banquet in Amherstburg. We've got them in Belleville, two other places, four or five, I think. We've got five or six chapters actively going here in Ontario now with conversations with other regions where people are reaching out to us. When I came back I said okay, let's get out there and tell people that we're ready for company and if folks have an interest in moving forward with a chapter or plugging into an existing chapter, let us know. And the phone's been ringing off the hook, so it's been busy.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was doing the show in Belleville last weekend when I met the Belleville chapter. Yeah, they were there. Yeah, those guys were there. Yeah, I was doing the show in Belleville last weekend when I met the Belleville chapter?
Speaker 6:Yeah, they were there.
Speaker 5:Yeah, those guys were there. Yeah, I met them there and asked them and they said that you people were going to be here. So I talked to you here Because they were only the Belleville chapter.
Speaker 6:They're a great crew, though I'll tell you. They sold a staggering amount of tickets for their banquet right at that show, yeah, and I saw the display and I saw the display. I wasn't there, but I saw the display and that's one of the hardest working chapters you could ever imagine.
Speaker 5:They do great work. That's good. Yeah, there's a lot of good organizations out there that need some recognition and, hopefully, how are people going to get in touch with you and we'll go over this again CWTFca.
Speaker 6:That's our website.
Speaker 5:Canadian Wild Turkey Federationca CWTF.
Speaker 6:CWTFca and when you go there there's a contact us. My personal cell number is there, emails are there. We endeavor to make sure that we reach out to everybody that contacts us and we encourage people to get in touch with us. See, we're volunteers, terry and myself we're both volunteers. We both have professions outside of that, but we've committed to making sure that nobody goes within 24 hours of being contacted outside of that. But we've committed to making sure that nobody goes within 24 hours of being contacted once they reach out to us. So please, do so.
Speaker 5:you mentioned Newfoundland as well. Now they have turkeys there now.
Speaker 5:No, I met with the Newfoundland government because there was Sean Kelly is a Black Angus, fine Meats and they were having trouble in remote areas with overpopulations of moose, yeah, and in Newfoundland. So I met with the ministers and the government there. Steve Kent was yeah, yeah, I know who you mean. Yeah, I met with Steve and then he introduced me to a bunch of people and we looked at because I told him I said, look, when I turkey wild turkeys came in Ontario we traded moose to Michigan for turkeys to get them in Ontario. Yeah, yeah, he says you traded animals and the staff, the bureaucracy, the deputy minister's side, was very interested in hearing all that kind of stuff that there is potential there and they thought we got lots of moose so we need to move some that we can in remote areas.
Speaker 6:But yeah, so I thought when you mentioned they have a chapter in Newfoundland, they do, and something that's interesting to note is that we have chapters in Nova Scotia with no turkey hunting, newfoundland with no turkey hunting. They don't have seasons Really, and people often say, well, that's interesting and I always thought when we were at the NWTF, why did Alaska have a chapter? And they did. They had a very, very high-functioning chapter and then people started to talk to me about the philosophy of the organization, and it's the same one we embody. We help foster and encourage the conservation and habitat protection and growth of the wild turkey in Canada.
Speaker 6:But, that's not it, right, you know, if you're never going to hunt wild turkeys, we're a conservation organization. The same habitat that benefits turkeys benefits white-tailed deer. A youth that learns how to hunt responsibly and ethically if they're taught by CWTF people in Nova Scotia, where there's no turkeys and ethically if they're taught by CWTF people in Nova.
Speaker 6:Scotia, where there's no turkeys, but then they invest in their natural habitat in other ways, then that's a job well done. The old saying that incoming tide rises all boats in the harbor. We invest in conservation initiatives, we support apple trees, we support food plot programs. We do all that stuff because we feel like if it doesn't directly correlate into a wild turkey hunting opportunity, it's still making the woods in the water better so what is the typical?
Speaker 5:like the belleville chapter, not to say belleville, but a typical chapter what do they do for a year? How does the organization function?
Speaker 6:so the the operations function with completely with volunteers, right, um. And so there's usually a Hunter's Heritage banquet once a year. We're very familiar with those, regardless of the conservation group. We know what it's like to walk into those rooms. As the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation, we carry it by providing them with the core package of prizes and firearms and whatnot, so that they can have their banquet, firearms and whatnot, so that they can have their banquet. One of the things that we do is we allow a great deal of individual flavor instead of it all being cookie cutter across the country.
Speaker 6:We just did a banquet in Amherstburg and they came to us and said, well, you know, the prizes last year didn't necessarily fit the outdoors person for the area. And we said, well, do you have folks that know what that product would be? Yeah, for the area. And we said, well, do you have folks that know what that product would be? Yeah, we do, and they're good. Go, we'll pay for it. You go, buy the product that's going to hit the mark for your local area, and it wasn't turkey hunting gear.
Speaker 6:It was awesome. I just came for that banquet and it was one of the most successful ones I've ever been to. So you know, we let the chapter have a great deal of autonomy. They raise funds at this annual dinner and then we have a split where we try to leave a generous amount of that with the chapter. We also allow them to do a special auction, if they want, where 100% of the proceeds of that stay with that local chapter. Then they work with us and we help.
Speaker 6:As the broader organization we try to help with organization of events like the hoot and shoot or fishing derbies. Northern new brunswick has a chapter for the national wild canadian wild turkey federation. Probably never going to see birds up there because it's a harsh, harsh climate, right, but they do ice fishing events, oh yeah, for youth. So so, and then and then through the year, if they want to do something else we could do, we have a couple of smaller kind of mini micro fundraising things that we do. We help with raising funds, investing it back into chapters, and then we say to them in your local area, what can we invest in that best helps promote conservation? And then so that's kind of the cycle that repeats itself every year.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, so that's it's important to have some of the projects that they want to do as well. Yeah, and the ability to. I know that's what we used to do because I worked with a number of organizations of sporting dogs, etc. Etc. I was on du committees, just like yourself, yeah, and we'd say, you know, okay, people that are regulars that come to the dinner, what do you need and what are you looking to buy? And then that's what we made sure we targeted.
Speaker 5:Well, you can only have so many decorative tractor seats with a logo on them right, Mike, I've got probably from that wall over there which is like 8 feet, 8, 10 feet of pictures all leaning up at a place in the basement, Because now? So what I do with those pictures is I donate them. I donate them to events and get a tax receipt for the donation. So if you donate something to the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation, is it tax?
Speaker 6:receivable. It's non-profit, so we don't have charitable status, so at this particular moment we don't have that ability. It would be great to do that for sure. We don't have that status at this particular moment. When it comes to the prizes, though, you talk about that, I always said I want to look at it this way if you came to a canadian wild turkey federation banquet, right, you are going to potentially win a prize tonight that you can take out into the field tomorrow, right?
Speaker 5:practical, we want it to be something that the people can use yeah, yeah, very good, all right, so, and you're pretty actively involved in that and it keeps you busy, obviously, yeah and so you're here at the tor Sportsman Show and we're talking just outside your booth. Yeah, and it's good to see that there's organization contributing in so many different ways, and so you do. Habitat development you mentioned the apple trees and a bunch of other things.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And oak trees, I'm sure are big. Well, there's not a lot of oak in eastern Canada, no, no.
Speaker 6:Because you mentioned white and red oak showing the kids. Oh, that was in maine when we did it there. Okay, uh, but we do um apple trees typically, you know, um different various food plots. Um rack stacker has uh, formulated a, a plot blend that'd be good for turkeys, right. But we'll also work with folks and say is it deer that you want to grow your plots for? Again, like I said, if you create habitat, that's good for any one different type. So you know habitat type stuff. Corn, you know we want to buy corn seed for a farmer to fill a field and say just leave. You know that perimeter around the edge for the deer, the turkeys, the you know, whatever.
Speaker 5:Yeah, most people don't know, but I recall when I was minister, one of the things that I found interesting was that five years of harsh winter, like the winter we just went- through in Ontario will actually wipe out huge numbers of deer population and turkey populations. Yeah, because they can't get to the food and the forage that's around. Yeah, and I imagine it's the same. You mentioned parts of New Brunswick that are pretty harsh. You'll never see turkeys up there because the winter's like that all the time.
Speaker 6:So you have to be flexible, creative and figure out what works where and do it.
Speaker 5:Well, mike, I want to thank you again for taking the time to be on the podcast. I appreciate the time you served as minister and now the time you're serving with the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation, and how can people again get in touch and find out more details?
Speaker 6:I'd love to hear you or the Canadian Wild Turkey Federation. My personal contact information, email, phone number, everything is on the website cwtfca. Keep it simple. Come see us. We want to hear from you.
Speaker 5:Thanks again, and this is just something a little bit different. People can learn how organizations are out there working and making things better under the canopy. Thanks, mike, love it.
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