.png)
Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 101: The Northumberland Land Trust
Doug McRae, board member with the Northumberland Land Trust, shares his passion for protecting natural spaces in an era of rapid development. The Northumberland Land Trust has preserved over 2,200 acres across 19 properties through land donations and strategic acquisitions, with more conservation areas in the pipeline.
Visit nltrust.ca to learn more about the Northumberland Land Trust, upcoming events, and ways to support their conservation work.
Back in 2016,. Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2:Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.
Speaker 1:Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.
Speaker 2:Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous fish of 10,000 casts.
Speaker 1:The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing. It's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter, through camaraderie and an unwavering spirit of adventure, this podcast will bring people together.
Speaker 2:Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures. Tight lines everyone.
Speaker 1:Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by Indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of this strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people. That will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode, and hopefully we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy, under the Canopy All right. Well, I want to thank everybody, all our listeners throughout Canada, across the states and around the world, in Switzerland, ghana, trinidad, tobago, our friends down in the Bahamas and everywhere else Really appreciate you listening, of course, because we wouldn't have a show if it wasn't for you, and at any time. If anybody has any questions or comments or wants to hear any special shows, let us know. I know I got to Pierre wanting to do a problems with bureaucracy, one coming up, so we'll be recording that, and I know my son's back in from Edmonton, so I'm probably going to be doing a recording with Garrett, I think, and I got to tell you this, a recording with Garrett, I think, and I got to tell you this morning it was out, same as usual. We're out running my chocolate lab and some Gunner. So I was out with Gunner and I got a second bloom of reishi, which kind of surprised, because here it is, you know, end of June, early July, and you got a second bloom and most of the time the reishi is done, at least where I am and where I get my reishi from. So I'm seeing reishi there and the mint's doing well, the stinging nettle's doing well, but the strangling dog vine, oh my, it's just everywhere and I got to tell you.
Speaker 3:So we take the dog out and we do a morning run and he ends up with a couple of other dogs. There's Willie, who's a German Shorthaired Pointer, and then there's another chocolate lab who I guess would be Gunner's best friend, cooper, and we're walking along and they're with their owners and I always stop. And here I am and they're wondering what the heck are you doing? Well, I'm pulling strangling dog vine blossoms out and pulling them out so that because this is just going rampant everywhere in there and it's taken over all the other fauna in the area completely and just dominating everything. And most people, I don't think they really understand that that's what's going to happen and it'll just completely dominate everything. So here I am, picking it and throwing it in a pile, letting it die. Of course it's a weed that's controlled, so there's no problem with the municipality getting upset, but it's just one of the things that we try to do.
Speaker 3:And now the water's out and on hot days that we got now, both Willie, the German short-haired pointer, and Cooper, the other chocolate lab, are in the creek and my guy just looks at me and I just shake my head, no, and he doesn't go in the water. He just knows stay out of the water until he's told it's okay, because otherwise he gets in the truck and everything's soaked. And I got Garrett's truck. So it's just one of the ways to kind of keep things and it's not too bad now, but a month ago I got to tell you the smell from the dead salmon is still pretty dominant everywhere. So we try to keep that down because I know Cooper when he gets home guess who has to have a bath.
Speaker 3:But anyways, that's just another thing of our out there and our living apothecary with, as I mentioned, the mint, and I've got quite a bit of mullein and quite a few other plants as well, including the reishi and the stinging nettle and a bunch of other things. Now today we got a great guest, and it's Doug McRae. Doug is a board member with the Northumberland Land Trust. Doug, welcome to the program. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4:Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3:Not a problem at all. I know I spoke with Sabrina, I met her, and sometimes people like I call her like, oh, probably I don't know how many probably six months ago, and she gave me her card and I said, oh, I might be interested in doing a program with you, and she thought, really Okay. And then so six months later I get in touch with her and you probably don't remember me. Oh yeah, yeah, we met in Peterborough, that's right. So here we are and we're talking about the Northumberland Land Trust. So, Doug, tell us a bit about yourself, Like what's your background and what's your special interest, and things like that.
Speaker 4:Well, I, ever since I can remember, I've been just fascinated by nature and wanting to be in it all the time, and I'm one of these guys who couldn't really pay attention in school but I could really pay attention outside.
Speaker 4:So I spent a lot of my youth sort of honing skills. I'm a very avid bird watcher but I'm interested in all aspects of natural history and so over the years I just started with contract employment and then I've worked in a whole bunch of different things. I spent about 20 years traveling the world with a company in Texas guiding birding tours. I've worked for consulting companies, parks, all sorts of things, and most recently I've taken up a teaching, part-time teaching position at Fleming College in Lindsay, teaching in the Fish and Wildlife Program, teaching ornithology and wildlife observation skills, which is, ironically, I think it's the most gratifying job I've ever had. I just love that job and anyway, and I got involved with the Land Trust about 20 years ago and my involvement has only increased over time. I'm like everyone in our land trust, except Sabrina, I am a volunteer. Sabrina is our first employee, and so I probably spend, you know, a good half of the work week doing land trust things, which is a labor of love.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so whereabouts is this? Just so people are international listeners, Doug understand Whereabouts is the land. Trust based from Toronto. That's usually a good point that people internationally understand.
Speaker 4:So Northumberland County is the southern border, is the Lake Ontario shoreline. It goes north to Rice Lake which is a big, long east-west lake, and the western boundary is about an hour from Toronto. So Durham is the county to our west and Hastings and Prince Edward County are the counties to our east and Peterborough to the north.
Speaker 3:All right. Now you mentioned about a lifelong passion. I have to tell you, when I was in school, it was the same with me. It was always when we were kids hey, mom, we're heading down to the creek, okay, be back for supper. Heading down to the creek, okay, be back for supper. And you know, you'd head down, cross the road, cross the big road which was Stevenson, down through the school, down through at that time, the fields it's all houses now and then houses and down to the creek, and we would spend all day down there, up by Hicks's farm, and oh yeah, we'd. We'd spend time, we'd go up on the barn and when the hay was in, we'd climb up on the barn roof and jump off into the hay piles, just as kids. And I got to tell you.
Speaker 3:It was interesting, though, and later on, after I was elected, I met with Mr Henderson, who is the science teacher in grade seven, and when I went to Ridgeway Public School and I don't know, he saw something in me, and I remember asking him. I said I never understood why you put me in the conservation fair with this. I had a red-bellied salamander display and I didn't think it was very impressive, and he said. Well, he said I could tell that there was an interest in science and I thought that you know your passion was there and it was important to stir that on.
Speaker 3:And then the next year, in grade eight I was at that time they did streaming and I was streamed in the science class with Mr Pratt and it was certainly something that inspired a lot of my as you mentioned a lifelong passion with the outdoors and all the other things that took place, because we did a lot of bus tours and trips along with that class and it was really an inspiration. So there was a lot of stuff that at that time, when we were streamed and in classes, that inspired a lot of the stuff which is good, good for a lot of kids, in my opinion, and certainly inspired a lot of the, the, the things that I do now as well as just well, I just mentioned about the reishi, the stinging nettle, the wild mint plants and all the other things that are out there as well. So now tell us okay, go ahead, doug.
Speaker 4:No, I was just going to say it sounds like you and I had very similar upbringings, because I had trouble staying in school. I found the outdoors much more interesting and it's sort of a different era when, like now, if you jumped off a barn roof into a hay bale, they'd probably have children's aid on you. Yeah, but it all worked out.
Speaker 3:Yep, oh, yeah it. You know it was a lot of the inspiration. It was just and the kids we hung around with too were were always involved in a lot of nature stuff, which is very important, kind of the the group that we were and whether it was a nature or nurture thing that we were there and we were spending that time out down in the streams and going fishing and all the rest of it as inspiration. But, yeah, it was certainly something that Mr Pratt and Mr Henderson inspired a lot of aspects of my life and some of the building blocks that are very important later on. So tell us, okay, Doug, what is a land trust for our listeners? Sure, okay.
Speaker 4:So a land trust? Land trusts are registered charitable organizations and the main mission is to receive biologically interesting properties and manage them wisely for conservation. I mean, that's boiled right down. So the Northumberland Land Trust actually formed from the merger of two land trusts that were operating in the county and since the merger three years ago we have grown exponentially and it's a very, very exciting time for us right now. But land trusts basically are conservation organizations, but without a lot of the I don't want to say politics, but without a lot of the difficulties that parks have where they have to satisfy a broad audience. And you know, we, we have a very, very simple mission, and, and our mission, our mission is straightforward it's acquire properties, manage them wisely and, and, and mostly when I say that we're, we're managing to either protect or enhance the existing biodiversity or special features that those properties may have.
Speaker 3:So when you say acquire properties, do you mean that the land trust is actually buying properties, or is this private property that's signed on to be part of the trust?
Speaker 4:In most cases we now have 19 properties. 17 of those were donated by the landowners and in most cases it's people around, you know, in their 60s or 70s. They bought the land back, you know, 40, 50 years ago. They have loved that land. They have trails, they've planted trees and they're looking ahead and they do not want to see it sold, subdivided, broken up. They love that land and our mission dovetails perfectly with that sentiment. And so they have donated them to us and there's quite significant tax advantages for a landowner.
Speaker 4:And then we have one property which is classified as an easement. So we have a legal easement on the property dictating what can happen to it and whenever that property is sold, the new owners have to abide by that easement. And then we have our first ever purchase. Property was last year. We went in a 50-50 partnership with Ducks Unlimited, which are a great conservation organization, and we bought what's called the Bitty Creek Wetland, which is a 304 acre fen on the south side of the 401, right at the Brighton exit. It's just insane that there's this big, almost like a wilderness bog literally beside the 401.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I worked quite a bit with DU Ducks Unlimited and actually it was interesting At one of the international conferences. What happened, doug, was much like you were just talking about the 304-acre property that you acquired with DU Ducks Unlimited has a policy where and I'm not sure it's the same, but it used to be matching funds. And so what happened was I was at an event at Queen's Park and it was outside Queen's Park and I needed a ride back to Queen's Park and anybody going back to Queen's Park. So I got in with this one guy and I said oh yeah, what do you do? He says well, when Norm Sterling was the minister of the environment, he created a uh, a pocket of funds to clean up AOCs areas of concern, yep, and he was in charge of it. And he said but since Norm is no longer the minister, the ministry does not want to deal with me at all. And here I have I can't remember three or $ million dollars sitting there waiting to do work with that. There's no interest at all. And I said, huh, and I'm one of those guys that kind of come hear things and hear issues and kind of bring everything together.
Speaker 3:I said I know an organization that might be interested in talking to you. And he says really, and I said yeah, ducks Unlimited. I said they have a policy where it's matching funds and they will come in and work potentially with you. So I set it up with DU.
Speaker 3:The two of them got together and they brought in, they doubled the money and most of the DU money that comes in for these cleaning up these areas comes from the states. So United States sent up another three or five million dollars on a matching basis, just as you said, on a matching basis. Du got the property and it was the same thing that all of a sudden now they're cleaning up all these areas of concern, contaminated areas in the Great Lakes area. That's great. So as a result of that, one of the things and I did a bunch of other work with DU one of the things that happened was that we were at an international conference where I was asked to speak at DU and they presented me with an honorary doctorate, so they affectionately called me Dr Duck with Ducks Unlimited.
Speaker 4:Well, better than a quack, eh.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, maybe a little bit of both, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, this is our first venture with Ducks Unlimited. Although Nature Conservancy of Canada, which is a national broad-scale land trust, ducks Unlimited and Nature Conserv co-purchased a property here in Brighton, just east of Brighton, 240 acres of shoreline wetland a couple of years ago and I helped with that effort as well and that's actually maybe also worth mentioning. You know we have a few land trusts operating in our area. We have Nature Conservancy and they take sort of provincial or national high-priority habitat areas. That's what they're focused on. There's also the Oak Ridges Land Trust, which extends into Northumberland but goes right across the top of Toronto, and then our land trust.
Speaker 4:And something I really like about this is it's a small community really and we all know each other and we work very seamlessly together. Like it isn't a competitive thing as to who gets what property. We've had landowners approach Nature Conservancy and say we want to give you our property and they'll say, well, that's not really in our mandate, why don't you talk to Northumberland and vice versa. So it really I mean, I know people talk a lot about partnerships and sometimes I think it's maybe a little more talk than action, but this is really quite a seamless group of people working together and I love that.
Speaker 3:So Doug, how large is the land trust now? How many acres are involved in this land trust?
Speaker 4:Okay. So I'm glad you asked that because I actually had to add it up last night because we have been acquiring so many properties in the last few years. It's a number that's changing rapidly, but right now we have 19 properties. We have five or six more in the pipeline that are coming and our total acreage now is right about I have it written down here. It's just over 2,200 acres or so, which is only slightly smaller than Presque Isle Provincial Park, which is also in the county Very good and when we merged three years ago we had 10 properties. We've got 19 now. So it's happening.
Speaker 4:What do you mean when you merged? Well, as I said earlier, there were two land trusts operating there was the Lone Pine Land Trust and the North Armadale Land Trust and we were sort of stepping on each other's toes and we finally said why don't we just join together? And we did, and the merger just gave us a huge shot of energy, reduced all the duplication that was happening and it allowed us to have some focus. And then another key thing that happened was we decided to dig in and we hired our first staff member, who was Sabrina Hasselfeld, who's been great, and so the board and like, basically it's a volunteer organization. Sabrina is the only paid position and just in the last well, starting next week our executive director will start our second employee. And so we're on a big growth trajectory since the merger and it's really exciting.
Speaker 3:And what's your position? Doug, I know you're a board member, but do you have another title?
Speaker 4:or role there. Well, yeah, I'm a director on the board of directors and I sit on a couple of the committees. I'm on the acquisition committee, so when someone approaches us and says I have a property I might be interested in donating, I'm part of the team that go look at the property, talk with the landowner. I'm on the stewardship committee, which basically dictates how we manage the properties and how we tackle things. Like you were mentioning dog strangling vine, and we have that. We have European buckthorn, we have phragmites a number of invasive plants that are quite damaging and spread rapidly, and so we're we're.
Speaker 4:Probably our biggest effort in stewardship and management is on controlling invasive species. So I'm I'm involved in all of that. I'm also on the fundraising committee and and you know, we do things like we have tables at various fairs and things, so sometimes I volunteer in that. So we have tables at various fairs and things, so sometimes I volunteer in that. So basically we do whatever we need to do. I don't really have a formal position beyond being a director and sitting on some of those committees, but I'm an avid naturalist, biologist. So our board is made up of a very, very diverse group of people. We have people who've been in government, people who've been in communications, accounting, running businesses, and I'm kind of one of the stronger biologists on the group, so I'm often approached on that.
Speaker 3:Okay, so, doug, and who regulates or monitors what governs a land trust? Then, doug monitors.
Speaker 4:What governs a land trust then, Doug Well, so, as I mentioned before, land trusts are registered charities, so we have to abide by the regulations that the federal and provincial government have around charities. We have to operate within the parameters that they set out. Beyond that, I'm not saying there's I wouldn't say there's a lot of regulation of the land trusts. There is a provincial body, the Ontario Land Trust Association, OLTA, which kind of acts as an umbrella group and a resource for all the regional land trusts and otherwise we're basically governed by our constitution, our bylaws, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Okay, and so is there a ministry that deals with land trust, is it not?
Speaker 4:resources or environment or how does that play out. We deal with both of those ministries. Those are the main ones. We also deal a lot with township and county governments. Like, when we're acquiring a property, you know we need to get severances. Sometimes someone will donate a property but sever the house off.
Speaker 4:So we deal with local government a fair bit on those sorts of issues. And then we have a fair bit of interaction with Ministry of the Environment, ministry of Natural Resources, but not a huge amount. But again, I mean it's. I guess probably it's mostly local government that we're dealing with more than any other branch. We do sometimes get grants from the provincial and federal government, sometimes provide funds towards the acquisition of properties, because even if you donate a property, it often costs anywhere from $20,000 to $40,000 to accept it, because you need surveys, you need severances, you need lawyers, we have to do biological studies on each of the properties in order for the donors to qualify for one of the programs called EcoGift, a federal program which provides a tax receipt for 100% of the appraised value that you can write off over 10 years. So it's very advantageous to the donor. But you know that does require a fair bit of paperwork to go through.
Speaker 3:Right. So now do you get opposition from local governments, Because is there like a property tax loss for income from local governments when you acquire properties?
Speaker 4:Well, I'm really glad you asked that, because we pay the same taxes as anyone else. Oh really, yeah, if it becomes a land trust property, that does not mean we don't pay taxes. Now there are some programs that can reduce our taxes, but they're also available to private landowners, right? So one of them is called the CLPTIP, the Conservation Lands Tax Incentive Program, and if you're, it's usually related to wetlands. But if your property has, say, a provincially significant wetland on it, that part of the property can be exempt from taxation.
Speaker 4:If you have a forestry program, like a managed what is it? The MIFTIP, managed forest tax incentive program you get a reduction of the tax rate for the portion that is a managed forest. So we can, you know, we get the same break as a private landowner, and it's a really common misconception among some local councils that this is somehow taking money out of the tax base. It's not. It's the same rules that apply to a private landowner. I wish we could be tax exempt. It would be really nice because we are doing good work and we can use all the help we get on this. We, you know, we can use all the help we get on this. But but and and we do have. We have had some local counselors on some councils, you know say exactly what you were saying, but you know it's that's that's a process where we're trying to educate counselors on what's going on.
Speaker 3:So, doug, you mentioned you were on the fundraising committee as well. Is that what the funds are raised for is to pay the property taxes in those areas? Is that part of the funds it is.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, when we're raising money, I mean, our biggest expense is managing invasive species and I hope I'm not wrong on this, but I think this year we're looking at about $45,000 to control invasive species and in some cases we are hiring licensed pesticide or herbicide applicators to go out, because things like buckthorn and phragmites and dog strangling vine, if you don't spray it it just keeps coming back, Like if you cut a buckthorn down, you'll have 20 stems next year you have to cut the stem and treat it, and so that's very finicky.
Speaker 4:Now we have volunteer work parties. As I said, most of our organization is volunteer based, so we will have a work party at a certain property. We'll say, okay, next Saturday, meet at nine, we all come out, we cut things down, we treat them, we do whatever fix fences, put up signage, whatever we need to do. But yeah, that's the biggest single expense. Then taxes on property are another. Sometimes, like some of the fairs and public events we attend, have a fee. So the actual operating costs you know a big chunk of it is the management of the land and then things like signage. You know all the properties need signs and, yeah, just a whole bunch of different things.
Speaker 3:So, doug, what kind of activities are allowed on these 2,200 acres that you have? So, for the general public, you mentioned about some of the properties that people have developed and they had trails on it and things like that. What kind of activities are allowed on a lot of the properties that people have developed and they had trails on it and things like that? What kind of activities are allowed on a lot of the properties that you have?
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, it varies a little from property to property. So we have four properties that are wide open to the public, with trails, and basically you can go for walks and take pictures, go birdwatching, that sort of thing. We don't allow vehicles on the properties, we don't allow the removal of things from the properties. One of those four properties is temporarily closed right now because it's the Lori Lawson Outdoor Education Center north of Coburg, because it is primarily ash forest and almost all the ash have died from the emerald ash borer and right now it's hazardous because the trees are coming down all over the trail. So we've closed it right now and we're working right now on hiring a company to come in and drop all the trees that are near the trails so they'll be safe to walk again. So that's an example of sort of an emergency expenditure we didn't anticipate. It's also a very graphic example of the dangers of invasive species.
Speaker 4:But yeah, most of the properties, some of the properties are basically closed to the public because they are really sensitive in physical nature or dangerous. One of them is a giant alder swamp and if you got into that thing and couldn't figure out how to get out, you know the whole our property is about 110 acres but the whole swamp is about 600 acres and if you got into that thing, I've done biological studies on that property and it is really hard to move around. It's not even safe in the winter because it doesn't really freeze hard, and so that's one we basically don't encourage anyone to go in. But other properties that are not broadly open can be visited, but we ask that people contact us first so we can share like a map and the conditions and the issues on that property. We also operate field trips every year which are open to anybody. They sign up for them, but we go to some of these properties where we don't have broad access to. But we'll take them in and see them and they're really popular. We have anywhere from 20 to 40 people showing up on our walks.
Speaker 4:Right, sorry, no, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say in a few cases we have properties that were donated by landowners who are still living on that land and they have said that while they're still living there they would prefer it not to be open to the public, but once they have sold it, you know we are free to do that and one of the other limitations is, you know, we do have to be responsible and make sure we have proper trails. Like you know, they aren't going to be paved or anything, but they need to not be hazardous. So that's a financial issue too, and that, again, is one of the areas. If we can raise funds, you know, we can improve the trail systems that we have.
Speaker 3:So no ATVing or snowmobiling allowed, or the snowmobile or ATV trails go through the properties at all.
Speaker 4:Correct. Okay. Now that's not to say, for example, there's, there's a well, there's ATV clubs all over the place. If someone were to donate a property to us that had an eight, you know, an established ATV trail, we wouldn't necessarily stop that. You know, we've right, we haven't had that happen yet, but I mean, I could see us. Well, I think it's good to work with everybody, really. And, yeah, and the atv community, um, you know it, when it first started it was kind of a wild west situation, but many of the atv clubs are quite organized and they're quite conscious of trail damage and things. So you know, I could us working.
Speaker 4:If we get a property that has you know, one of these ATV club trails going through it, that's not a deal breaker at all.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, I recall one group, mark and his group. They were dirt bikers that wanted access to another managed property as well because they felt that they could go in and all their work would clear the trails up for them to allow it to be used. If they were allowed to have say a two, three-week kind of period, their ATVs would be in there, their dirt bikes would clean those trails up pretty good so that they were very accessible for everybody else, whether they were walkers or horseback riding and things like that. But everybody manages things as best they see in the best interest of the public or the users that are looking at these properties.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think too, you know, our core thing here is it isn't. We're here to save land, and a secondary thing is what we can do on it Right, which is a little different than, say, parks, which have a stronger obligation to provide opportunities within land Right. Our primary goal, first and foremost, is acquiring land and ensuring it's good for all time, and ensuring it's good for all time.
Speaker 8:Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right. Every Thursday, ang and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Hmm, now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week? Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 1:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 8:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes, All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garton Turk and all the Russians would go fishing.
Speaker 1:To scientists, now that we're reforesting it's the perfect transmission environment for line fishing.
Speaker 2:To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it.
Speaker 8:And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are. Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside. Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga Health and.
Speaker 7:Wellness. Okay, we're here with Kim from Bob Cajun and Kim, you had a great experience with the Chaga cream and your grandson. Can you tell us about that a?
Speaker 5:bit. Yeah, so my grandson actually struggles with psoriasis. He's only 16 years old, so of course the self-esteem right. He doesn't want his face all covered in scales and stuff like that. And I picked him up on a weekend to come and visit with me and I had overheard you talking to somebody about psoriasis. Okay. So it kind of piqued my interest and I thought I would ask you about that. And when you explained it to me I took a container home for him. Right.
Speaker 5:And in one day he was over the moon, happy that his face looked clear and he's going to be religiously doing it because, he's so self-conscious about it.
Speaker 7:So he tried other things through the medical system and things like that. Yeah, and it just didn't have any success.
Speaker 5:Correct, he had a prescription of cream and you know, it would sort of dry it up a little bit. But that was the problem it just dries it up and then it's flaky on his face and he doesn't really like that and it leaves a lot of little red blotchy stuff, right.
Speaker 5:So after he rubbed that stuff on the chaga stuff, his face didn't look so angry because it's a red angry sort of look on his face, didn't look so angry, you know, because it's a red angry sort of look on his face, and it didn't look so angry. It looked soft and and clear. So he was over the moon happy and so I took him home and then he messaged me after a couple of days to tell me that he's so, so happy that his, his skin looks clear.
Speaker 7:Great. Thanks very much, kim. From Bob Cajun, you're welcome, okay.
Speaker 3:We interrupt this program to bring you a special offer from Chaga Health Wellness. If you've listened this far and you're still wondering about this strange mushroom that I keep talking about and whether you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of interest to you. To thank you for listening to the show, I'm going to make trying Chaga that much easier by giving you a dollar off all our Chaga products at checkout. All you have to do is head over to our website, chagahealthandwellnesscom, place a few items in the cart and check out with the code CANOPY C-A-N-O-P-Y. If you're new to Chaga, I'd highly recommend the regular Chaga tea. This comes with 15 tea bags per package and each bag gives you around five or six cups of tea. Hey, thanks for listening Back to the episode. So some of these ones you mentioned that they've closed off because it's basically an ash forest.
Speaker 3:I know that there used to be a board member for the South Central Fish and Wildlife Association that essentially would go into properties like that and clean up all those trails for organizations like the Northumberland Land Trust at no charge. But what happened with them was they just didn't have any work to do, so the association eventually folded and they had chainsaws and brush cutters and all that kind of stuff. They worked directly. They would work with the Ministry of Natural Resources and, to be honest, I know that I sat in on some meetings before I was minister for natural resources there where some of the people would say, because people like that were volunteering their time, and the person beside me, not knowing who I was, doesn't he realize that every time these volunteers come in they take away one of our jobs? And it was just to me like wait a sec, these volunteers come in, they take away one of our jobs. And it was just to me like wait a sec, no, that's not the way it should be. So you know. So South Central would go into the Bexley Deer Yard and every year wait and work directly with the Ministry of Natural Resources and a lot of they did a lot of the oh, the non-quant forest area. They would do trail cutting and stuff like that at no charge, because that was what they loved to do.
Speaker 3:What stuff like that? At no charge? Because that was what they loved to do. What ended up happening was they had no jobs. So it just kind of faded away. And I don't know if there's any more organizations like that. But if you have to contract somebody out to do the work, I guess there isn't.
Speaker 4:I think I'm not aware of a group that would do that, although I'd sure like to hear from them if they're out there. But I think one of the issues too and this is sort of the bane of our world today is the whole liability issue, and everybody goes nuts about liability. So when we hire that out, we're hiring someone who has insurance. It's sort of the safety and the issues are all on them, and we do, I should say too, when we have our volunteer work parties, we do have members who are chainsaw certified and and we do cut some of this stuff down ourselves, Right, Uh, but this is a big job. This is. There are hundreds of ash trees that need to be dropped. Right, it's, it's, it's. You know, it's not a solid ash forest, but it's, it's the dominant component. Yeah, and and and, like so many of our ash forests, they're just standing skeletons now.
Speaker 3:It's terrible, it's pretty sad. Yeah, it is Really sad. Yeah, it's a shame. Yeah, so yeah, but you know, when you have to hire out those individuals with the insurance and all that, they have bills to pay. So it's something that you've got to have more fundraisers for bills to pay. So it's, it's something that you got to have more fundraisers for no, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 4:So what other sort of things are are allowed or not allowed on the properties and doug well, um, I mean at this point, basically it's it's meant for sort of quiet recreation, you know. So mainly people are going for walks in the properties, they're taking pictures. We have a pretty strong artist community in Northumberland and we've had some art days on the properties where people have come out and done paintings and things like this on our properties. We don't really have at this point in time. We don't have a lot of capacity to govern other uses. That is not to say there might not be, but we generally go with the premise of, you know, no extractive activities and and so mushroom pickers are not allowed in and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4:That's a good question. You might have got me on that one.
Speaker 3:What about fiddleheads and wild leeks and all the other great things that are out there and available?
Speaker 4:We prefer not to have that happening just because there aren't a lot of like, ostrich fern is the main fern for fiddleheads and we don't have that much of it around. So we, we would uh, ask people not to pick stuff on the properties, right, um, because, as I said before, I mean these are really designed to protect nature and and in so much of our landscape. Now, uh, you know, urban sprawl is a terrible problem and, right, you, you know, like you live in Durham and I'm old enough to remember when you could tell Pickering from Ajax, from Whitby, from Oshawa, oh yeah, and now it's just a continuous development. And Northumberland is next, and you know, we see, we're seeing that now sort of the whole thing of country homes are going in everywhere. So our landscape is getting heavily fractured and we see, we the land trust.
Speaker 4:See, this is our golden moment, because a lot of people who own these larger tracts of land are getting to the point where they're not going to be here forever. They want to save that land and I think this window of the next 10 years or so there's going to be, this is going to be our best opportunity to to receive these parcels from, from willing donors, right, and so we want to get ahead of that and protect as much of our high value lands as we can, because the you know the population onslaught it's happening everywhere. I live in Brighton, which has five traffic lights, and we're building 150 subdivisions. Now it's changing. So we're trying to get ahead of this and secure as much of this as we can so that 50 or 100 years from now, north Thurman is still a green county. We have one of the highest forest covers of any county in southern Ontario 50 or 100 years from now, you know North.
Speaker 4:Thurman is still a green county. We have one of the highest forest covers of any county in southern.
Speaker 3:Ontario, and we really want to keep it that way, right? You know, yeah Well, brighton's a very active spot and growing in leaps and bounds, and of course, they got the big Apple Fest. When is that? September or?
Speaker 4:August. Yes, that's right. Yeah, I think it's the third or fourth weekend in September.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's pretty active. Now, Doug, are there hours that are allowed to access the trails or the properties.
Speaker 4:You can go in at any time. One of our fundraising activities is what's called the Birding Marathon and we have avid birders visit each of our properties for a day in May, and so on those days some of us are heading in at two in the morning, you know, to listen for owls and whippoorwills and things like that. Now, most people have a greater level of sanity than that and they're going in at normal times, but it's open anytime. But you're probably the same, jerry, but I love being out at first light because it's just, it's like you have the world to yourself and it's so busy and active for that first hour or two. Yeah, uh, and I, I, I find that like just the best thing for mental health is to get out when it's just starting to get light and watch that transition.
Speaker 3:but no, yeah, anyway, any any hours anytime you want to go, you can so you're still getting a lot of whippoorwills, are you?
Speaker 4:Well, there are parts of our county where they're still fairly common. There's many areas where they aren't and it's mostly habitat related but where there's still sort of sandy areas with a mix of forest cover and openings. They're there. So, like the Ganaraska and the Northumberland County Forest have some pretty healthy populations still, but in many, many areas they've largely disappeared, mainly because we cut all the forests down by 1900.
Speaker 4:And up until about the 40s 50s there was lots of successional habitat that whippoorwills liked. But a lot of that's grown up and the habitats have just aged out for whippoorwills like. But a lot of that's grown up and the habitats have just aged out for whippoorwills. Many, many, many cases. You know, when a species is in trouble it's often habitat that's at the core of the problem and that again reinforces what we're doing. You know I mean anyone who's involved in environmental stuff it's a pretty depressing world out there sometimes because we have a lot of creatures in severe decline and, as I sometimes say and I hate to put it this way but whatever survives, our folly will at least have a place to stay. That's what we do. We can't control it all, but we can control that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, can't control it all, but we can control that. Yeah. So, doug, do you have like a chief forester or a property manager or who manages or takes cares or makes the decisions for forests and cuts, like you mentioned, the ash cut and things like that?
Speaker 4:Okay, so, yeah, so our properties, the way we work it is we have volunteer stewards who are responsible for each property and they try to visit monthly and so they're looking for things like people dumping garbage, broken fences, any vandalism, which is rare. Thankfully, they're also looking at. You know, say, they go in the woods and they find a patch of dog strangling vine, so they'll either dig it out themselves or they'll map it so that when we bring a sprayer in they can do it. We do have two professional foresters One of them is on the stewardship committee and another is a steward for a property and they have helped us when we were going to a couple of our properties have red pine plantations, right, and they're being cut every 15 years or so, thinned and converting it over basically to a native forest, and so they've gone in and helped mark the trees for cutting and, and then we hire a company to come in and take them out, right, but we do the marking ourselves and selecting the trees where the skidder trails are going to be, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is, as I say, like I've been on a bunch of different boards over the years. I love this board. We have such a diverse group of people, everybody likes each other. We're all on the same mission, you know, and it's really effective. And I think you know, from a conservation point of view, I do not think there is a more cost-effective or actually effective way to do this than land trusts. We're uncomplicated, you know. It's just a nice simple mission Save land, manage it wisely.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I used to know there was a chief forester for the M&R Natural Resources that worked out of Lindsay, bob Penwell, bless his soul, and he used to manage. Afterwards he would manage another forest that you mentioned. But M&R doesn't get involved in helping maintain or look after or give advice on any of these forests at all.
Speaker 4:No, I don't think they do that anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, but we have a few people there. There was the I'm going to get the name wrong. I think it was the Northumberland tree planters which many of them were retired M&R. People Like M&R has gotten out of a lot of this stuff, right, they farm it out private, and so we've had a lot of people who used to work in forestry for the ministry who went into it privately, and we're actually looking at one of our properties where we might plant an area that's about I guess it's about seven acres, five acres and we may put that in. So, you know, we'll consult with foresters for that. But, as I say, we have two actual foresters who are retired and, as far as I can tell, a forester never really retires. I think they just start planting trees on their own time, yeah, but so we have some pretty skilled people who can help us, which is something we very much rely on.
Speaker 3:Right, which is something we very much rely on Right Now. One of the other ones that Bob Penwell, bless his soul, was managing and you mentioned another managed forest property but that one charges fees for people to use the property and so they generate quite a bit of revenue from, to be honest, from snowmobilers Well, I don't say snowmobilers probably, but ATVers and a lot of dirt bikers and horseback riders and actually hunters will go in in the fall and generate a lot of revenue for those ones. Is there fees involved to utilize any of the properties?
Speaker 4:No, there's not. We very much want for the properties where it's safe for people to go in, and safe both for the wildlife and the people. We don't want to put a barrier up to that. We very much want people to just be able to go for a nice walk without having to pony up. And I realize, you know, we'd rather raise the money another way than sort of nickel and dime the people who want to get out in nature, and we do. You know we have a couple of different fundraisers. We have the Fall Gala, which is in October in Coburg, with a good speaker and silent auctions and that sort of thing. And we have the Spring Birding Marathon, which this year brought in I think it was $13,000, which was our best ever.
Speaker 4:Good, but we rely on donations and and it it never fails to amaze me. Just to give you an example, the, the bitty creek wetland that we co-purchased with ducks, unlimited. We had never taken a step that big before. We needed to raise a hundred and ninety thousand dollars, which is a lot for us, right, and and we were sort of humming and harring going. You know this is going to be a big deal. How do we do this? And and we sort of humming and hawing going. You know this is going to be a big deal. How do we do this? And, and we sort of put out the call and in six weeks we raised over the target.
Speaker 4:Very good, just blows me away. And I think it tells us the public is behind conservation. You know people want to do this and and so you know, and we've had people tell us that they have left money for us in their will. So down the road we may see that and and uh. But donations, large and small, are what run us, and and uh, uh. We're always happy to receive those. I just want to point that out very good.
Speaker 3:So, uh, now, organizations like invasive species Species Ontario they have pockets of funds for Phragmites and things like that. Do you make applications for those? Yes, we do.
Speaker 4:Okay, good with it. But you know, in addition to sort of running the current operation, we want to expand, we want to be, you know, we want to triple in size in 10 years. We want to try and get as much land as we can, and we're cautious. But we also take the approach like, let's get the land and we'll find a way to raise the money to support it, and because, if you sit there waiting for the money to come in, oh, we've got enough, now we can take on this one. We're not going to win this game. We need to get the land now, before it's all carved up and turned into housing. And so we're very driven in that regard and our attitude is okay, we're going to get the land and we'll figure a way out to fund it. And so far, so good, very good. But that's a testament to our supporters.
Speaker 4:I can't get over the vibe, if I could call it that, when we go on these hikes with people, they love it. Everybody knows each other, we're all talking, everyone is so excited at what is happening and I think it's it's a place of hope. You know, and I think people feel that because it's it's the world is a difficult place right now in so many ways and people come out and go on a walk in these woods and they meet the donors. Most of these donors, they're not rolling in money. They're often quite humble people. In fact, they're all humble people to be honest.
Speaker 4:And they're giving this thing out of generosity, not for accolades. It's because they know this will survive, and I just think that's just the happiest thing going.
Speaker 3:Very good. So these hikes and walks that you take, are they published or do you do mushroom walks? Because I get people asking me all the time to do a mushroom walk and no, I don't provide that service. It's just because I'm one of those obsessive compulsives that if I don't know all the details well, what's that mushroom I don't know? I would well, what's that mushroom I don't know? I would not feel comfortable having that ability. So if you have experts, I know that Toronto has the largest mycological organization, probably in the province, but they do walks as well. But do you have walks and take people out for things like that as well?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we do have walks and take people out for things like that as well. Yeah, we do so we're sort of expanding our programs of going out into the public. But if you go to our website, which is nltrustca or just Google Northumberland Land Trust, you'll see our activities. Just touch on that tab and it'll show the scheduled walks. Now I think we don't have any going on in July. The next one is on a property I own that I'm going to be donating and that's, I think, in the third week of August, and it's to look at monarchs, because it's right on the lakeshore, outside the gate of Presque Isle Park and we're going to be looking for monarchs.
Speaker 4:But some of our hikes are focused on a theme like mushrooms or butterflies or birds. Others are just broad, general and crisp nature walks. But most you know, we had a moth outing, for example, on one of our properties which is at night. You put up a black light on a white sheet and you get all the moths. That was back in early June I think, and it was a big success. And so we do some specialty walks and then just some general walks and that's an area we really want to keep expanding on as our resources permit. But we do have a lot of experts in our area. Like they might be quote amateur, but they know their stuff and we tap into them as much as we can to lead these field trips and they're very nice, you know it's good fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, you mentioned about the monarch butterflies and it's interesting. I know that there's been a huge surge and a lot of people wanting to help out, and I happen to be in Thunder Bay. I was doing a speech in Thunder Bay and a friend Carl Sharp his name invited me over. He said Jerry, you want to come over to the house tonight? We're having a blooming. And I said you're having a what?
Speaker 5:He said yeah, I'm having a blooming.
Speaker 3:And I said what's a blooming? And he said, well, I have a night blooming primrose and it's going to open tonight. And I said, really. I said sure. So we went over and I watched and it was quite amazing to see. But the one thing, he was showing me the gardens and they had a milkweed there. I said, oh, you've got milkweed growing. And he says, yeah, we're trying to help out and we're part of the garden club here in Thunder Bay. And so everybody was planting milkweed seeds in order to help monarch butterflies up that way. And I said, oh, yeah, I said we got into the conversation and I was shocked that they were charging $10 a seed for a milkweed plant in Thunder Bay. So lo and behold, I went and that fall I said, carl, I will take care of your milkweed requests. That fall I went and picked a whole bunch of milkweed pods and mailed them up to Carl to make sure that they had an abundant supply of milkweed for the area, just to assist monarch butterflies.
Speaker 4:Yeah, $10 a seed. You're not going to plant a whole lot.
Speaker 3:Well, I was shocked yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is. But you know the big thing there is. People were willing to put $10 out to buy a seed to help monarch butterflies.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Some of our properties. By the way, we manage open field areas. Some of them are actual prairie type sites. We have some long tall grass prairie sites here in Northumberland, like native tall grass prairie, oh really. And we also have old hay fields and things like that and they're managed for bobolinks and meadowlarks and monarchs and all this sort of stuff, right, so that's part of I should have mentioned that's. Some of the things we spend money on is like mowing down these fields in the fall so they don't turn into shrubs in succession, and manage them as grassland areas, because that grassland, the grassland community, is just a tiny fraction of what it was 50 years ago and all the other species that are familiar with grasslands have declined as a result. So, yeah, and monarchs are one of the beneficiaries of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so do you get shrikes out there as well.
Speaker 4:Oh, please, I wish Well loggerhead shrikes. When I was a kid, I grew up in Peterborough, I could go on a bike ride for an afternoon and go by three or four pairs. Now they're largely restricted to an alvar north of Napanee and north of Lindsay at Cardin, and just a handful of pairs outside, and so I have never seen a loggerhead shrike on one of our properties, although it's conceivably possible. But they're so rare now that seeing a migrant is really unusual.
Speaker 4:But northern shrikes, which are the boreal forest counterpart, we do see those in the wintertime, right, and they're of course the ones that you know catch. They're sort of like a hawk with a robin's feet, and so they can't grip the prey, so they stick it on a thorn or a barbed wire fence or even in the crotch of ranch, so they'll kill a mouse or a vole and wedge it in a tree. So if any listeners ever see a mouse hanging dead in a tree, that's what did it, and it's kind of neat actually like especially. Well, young kids really like that, because it's got the right amount of gore to attract you, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I was the minister that donated the property for the car snorts of Lindsay.
Speaker 4:Oh really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I was out there on the bus trip when we were going to look for loggerheads.
Speaker 5:Good for you, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah, I knew it well.
Speaker 4:But well, doug, tell us how can people find out more details or get in touch with you or find out how they can access the properties that you deal with? The best vehicle is go to our website, nltrustca, and all the information you need to contact us is there and you know you can send in an email. You can look at the properties. The ones that are open to the public are indicated on the website and there's directions how to get there. And we would just love to field any inquiries people have and, of course, we would love to receive any donations of land or money people would like to give. I have to say that I'm on the fundraising committee.
Speaker 3:Well, so your next walk is a property out in August, I think you said, and maybe, if you have the dates or any information, you could just highlight that for people.
Speaker 4:I don't have the date in my head. I think it's about August 20th. It's on the website under the outings and it's just a walk around. I have a very small little property just outside the gate of Presque Isle Park. It used to be a mini putt golf course and I bought it a decade ago, but it has endangered and threatened species on it. It's very small but it's a golden property. It's got part of the Presque Isle Bay wetland in it and it's also a major monarch staging place. When the weather conditions are right Like I've had over a thousand monarchs on the property in some days, and so it's I like to build them as sort of general walks. That way, if it's not a big monarch day, we don't look like we failed, but you will see monarchs and lots of other things.
Speaker 3:So what day of the week is the walk planned for? Do you know?
Speaker 4:I believe it's on a weekend. Most of our walks are on weekends, yeah, and I just I don't think I'm able to look it up while I'm on the computer here with you. That's okay, but if they, just go to the website.
Speaker 4:They'll see it. And it's good to check our website periodically because sometimes we add in new walks when an opportunity comes up to see something or do something, and so it's too good to keep going back. And we've got profiles of all the properties and stuff on our governance and our board members and all this sort of stuff and it tells the story of the organization, which is a very, in my mind, a very exciting, heartwarming story, because we're just moving in the right way and we're doing great things.
Speaker 3:Well, doug, I very much appreciate you taking the time to inform us about the Northumberland Land Trust, the properties and the ability for people to get out and see some nature, and the fact that you provide walks and, quite frankly, in August, that weekend in August where you might be able to see a large number of monarchs, which would be great for a lot of people. I think it's just another way that people are learning and finding other stuff that's interesting out there under the canopy, and thanks for joining us today, doug.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you so much for your interest. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Very good.
Speaker 6:How did a small-town sheet metal mechanic come to build one of Canada's most iconic fishing lodges? I'm your host, steve Nitzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people, share their stories of our trials, tribulations and inspirations, learn and have plenty of laughs along the way.
Speaker 8:Meanwhile we're sitting there bobbing along trying to figure out how to catch a bass and we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing a fishing show.
Speaker 6:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be for more fishing than it was.
Speaker 4:punching you so confidently, you said hey, pat have you ever eaten a drum?
Speaker 6:Find Diaries of a Lodge Owner now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.