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Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 110: A Master Gardener's Guide to Fall Preparation
Digging deep into the soil of gardening wisdom, this episode unearths precious insights from Master Gardener Bev DeLenardo that will transform how you approach your garden. With over 26 years of experience selling at farmers markets and a wealth of horticultural knowledge, Bev shares secrets that both novice and experienced gardeners will treasure.
Ever wondered why some garlic bulbs produce tiny, numerous cloves while others develop just a few magnificent ones? Bev reveals that the size of what you plant directly influences what you'll harvest, and explains why garlic planted in fall consistently outperforms spring plantings. She walks us through her meticulous process for nurturing "heavy feeder" plants like garlic, from enriching the soil with well-composted manure to the surprising practice of foliar feeding – where plants absorb nutrients directly through their leaves.
The conversation blossoms into practical fall garden preparation advice, with Bev emphasizing the importance of proper cleanup to prevent disease cycles and the benefits of working soil before winter. Her tips on collecting and storing herb seeds, improving sandy soil with organic matter, and deterring garden pests naturally (coffee grounds for skunks, anyone?) offer immediate value you can apply to your own outdoor spaces.
We also venture into the community-building world of farmers markets as Bev shares her experience organizing the Lindsay Thursday Farmers Market. From navigating health department regulations to creating accessible spaces where people connect over locally grown food, her insights reveal how these markets sustain both agricultural producers and the communities they feed.
Whether you're looking to grow prize-worthy garlic, prepare your garden for winter, or understand the inner workings of your local farmers market, this episode delivers rich, practical knowledge rooted in decades of hands-on experience. Subscribe now to continue receiving these valuable gardening insights that help you live your best life under the canopy.
Back in 2016,. Frank and I had a vision to amass the single largest database of muskie angling education material anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2:Our dream was to harness the knowledge of this amazing community and share it with passionate anglers just like you.
Speaker 1:Thus the Ugly Pike podcast was born and quickly grew to become one of the top fishing podcasts in North America.
Speaker 2:Step into the world of angling adventures and embrace the thrill of the catch with the Ugly Pike Podcast. Join us on our quest to understand what makes us different as anglers and to uncover what it takes to go after the infamous fish of 10,000 casts.
Speaker 1:The Ugly Pike Podcast isn't just about fishing. It's about creating a tight-knit community of passionate anglers who share the same love for the sport. Through laughter, through camaraderie and an unwavering spirit of adventure, this podcast will bring people together.
Speaker 2:Subscribe now and never miss a moment of our angling adventures. Tight lines everyone.
Speaker 1:Find Ugly Pike now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by Indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of this strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world.
Speaker 3:On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people. That will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode, and hopefully we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy. Under the Canopy. Well, as always, we want to thank all our listeners. It's part of the course, you know, and you got them. Ask them questions, that is, and suggestions. Let us know for our show that is, and we'll see what we can come up with. Sometimes it takes a bit of information but time to figure it out, but we try to get everything on and answer it for all the questions.
Speaker 3:Now, you know I always talk about my chocolate lab gunner and we got going through a bunch of hotspot issues and I'm not of that and nor do I give advice, but I got to tell you he was prescribed something for his hot spots called cephalexin, and cephalexin when you talk to I used to talk to Jeff Urich, who used to be the minister of natural resources, but his background, jeff, he was actually a pharmacist in his prior life as well and he would tell me that they would regularly sell that's their medications for their prescriptions and things along those lines, and that virtually the same. So I ran out of cephalexin that was prescribed and I started checking around and, lo and behold, my mother. Mom turns 91 next month. I had one cephalexin left and Garrett, my partner. He occasionally comes up and does a show with us on a podcast. He had a bunch of cephalexin as well. So I read the prescriptions the exact same same level of material in it and guess what? I used the cephalexin there and cleared up his hot spots without any problem. And I had the same problem with my other chocolate lab as well. Every time they'd go swimming in our lake they'd develop these hot spots and I don't know what it is or why. But when I had John Bell he was the Sporting Dogs Association president on John suggested that we get the lake checked out as to find out why. But that's not happening anyways, I'm not sure where. I guess I could take water samples to somewhere to find out what the problem might be, but anyways, so we're dealing with that.
Speaker 3:Now my chocolate lab as well. I've talked about him quite a bit. Now, this guy and I don't know how many of you dog owners out there, but when I'm in the bathroom and at the sink and he comes in and walks between me and the sink and looks up at me, he gives you one of those sad looking eyes that means he wants his teeth brushed. I don't know how many of you have a dog that want their teeth brushed. But he comes in and looks at me and he wants his teeth brushed. So I brush his teeth and it only takes a couple of seconds well, a minute or two to do, but it certainly helps with a lot of stuff because he doesn't have bad breath at all, because a lot of the bad breath for dogs comes from essentially teeth problems and if you keep them clean you kind of get rid of that bad breath problem.
Speaker 3:Again, I'm not a vet nor can I give medical advice, but I got to tell you you know I was talking about him going on the water up at the camp, the lake, the cottage and one of the things up there is right now. I got a knee brace on and a wrist guard on because I've been pushing it a little bit hard, helping my son cut and split and haul firewood up the hill and that's not an easy task. And not only that, but we were repairing a lot of cribbing. So fix the cribs, decrease the footprint on the water a bit on those, and it's taking its toll. But I got to tell you I had cedar boards on for decking on top, for the top of the cribs, the dock, the deck down there and they lasted 22, 25 years and seem to be pretty good. No problems there.
Speaker 3:But this time I'm trying, pressure treated, to see how that goes and hopefully it's the last time that I have to rebuild any of these docks and decks and stuff, because it takes a bit out of you. Anyways, today we've got another special guest and this one has been on with us a number of times and we get a bunch of questions. I know the producer loves gardening and had a bunch of questions in the past, but we've got Bev DiLeonardo back on. Welcome, bev to the program.
Speaker 4:Thanks, Jerry. Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not a problem.
Speaker 4:Now just to remind our listeners what exactly is a master gardener and how do you become one master gardener has achieved the equivalent of level one, two and three horticulture out of the mine was originally the university of guelph, but now it's out of dalhousie on the east coast. And sorry, what was the second part of that question?
Speaker 3:uh, so so you, you and so, master gardener, you took it at um university of guelph, and well, no, yeah, you took it, but now it's at dalhousie university.
Speaker 4:It's offered from dalhousie now, yeah, yeah, it was over 20 years ago, so things have changed.
Speaker 3:So so what is a master gardener then? Then what kind of stuff do you learn to become a master gardener?
Speaker 4:Well, you have to know the full spectrum of gardening, anywhere from pruning to propagating growing, identifying plants, identifying disease problems, the whole gamut. And one thing that the course does offer you it shows you how to find the answers. And so you do develop. By doing the courses, you do develop the skills on how to find the answers. That's what my experience was.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, very interesting. So, bev, now I've got basil, or is it basil? Is it basil or basil?
Speaker 4:Either is fine.
Speaker 3:What do you call it as a master gardener? Basil, okay, basil. So I've got a bunch of basil that has gone to seed, as well as sage and a number of other of my plants. How do I take those seeds to start them for plants for next year?
Speaker 4:that has gone to seed, as well as sage and a number of other of my plants. How do I take those seeds to start them for plants for next year? Well, what I would do is I would snip off the part of the plant that has the finished flower on it and put them into some white envelopes and leave the envelopes open and set somewhere to air dry, and as it dries, those seeds will fall away from the cutting that you've taken and right into the envelope. They're going to be very small. For the basil and a lot of the herb seeds actually are quite tiny, so that's why I always suggest you put them in an envelope to start.
Speaker 3:Okay, so then I put them in an envelope. Now I took some of the sage seeds and actually planted them. Is that the wrong thing to do?
Speaker 4:Not necessarily as long as you remember where you've planted them. Usually the first seeds that develop you might not recognize, but when the true seeds come along, you should be able to recognize them. Have you got them in a pot?
Speaker 3:Actually the ones are no, I planted in an open area at my place up in central Ontario.
Speaker 4:Yeah, as long as you can keep the weeds out of there to let those tiny seedlings develop. When they do come along, probably won't get any germination until the spring Depends what our fall is like.
Speaker 3:Okay, and what causes germination then?
Speaker 4:Oh, temperature, moisture and light.
Speaker 3:Okay, and so you mentioned that it might not germinate till spring. Does that inhibit or help or hurt the plant to growth at all?
Speaker 4:No, not necessarily the plant will. Whenever the conditions are good, they will germinate, and you did it with the sage, which is a perennial, so it might take a little longer. I find the annual seeds germinate much faster.
Speaker 3:Okay, so does that mean that it might not be growing next year, but the year after, potentially, if it's going to grow, or is that?
Speaker 4:No, you should have germination next year or this fall, it depends what our fall is like. You might get germination, but you may not really see them. They start off pretty tiny.
Speaker 3:Right. So I've got a number of ones and I don't know if they're annuals or perennials, just so people know what's the difference between. I know what a difference is, but between an annual and a perennial- Well, an annual germinates, grows and sets seed and dies.
Speaker 4:Within the first year Perennials will grow, sometimes flower, sometimes not, and then they will come back every year. They're in for the long run, so perennial can live anywhere from three years up to 80.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, yeah, and I've got a. I have mullein as well, which is it's a semi-annual because it lasts two years, bianial Biennial, okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah, biennial.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then so other ones I've got. I've got large patches of mint, both spearmint, peppermint, as well as rosemary, thyme, lemon balm, lavage Do you know what lavage is Lavage? Yes, oh, yeah, yeah, and that grows pretty tall. It's a big plant. Yes, yeah, it kind of takes over a lot and I hear about it regularly from my wife, diane, about having this plant there Because we don't use it a lot, but it's kind of like a peppery celery replacement.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, and it's not that common. You don't hear too many people talk about it in North America. More popular in Europe. Flavoring soups is the main use, I believe, for it.
Speaker 3:Yep, and not only that, but I saw one article on it that said that the stocks work great for those that enjoy the Caesar drink, because they're hollow and you can use it as a straw and it adds a little bit of flavor to your Caesars. I've never heard of that. Yeah, yeah, so it was kind of interesting. Yeah, so yeah, and now tell us about what's the difference between regular and seed garlic?
Speaker 4:Genetically nothing but seed garlic has been thoroughly inspected for any signs of pests or disease or bruises damage, so that when you receive seed garlic it's nice and clean to go in the ground, whereas if you grow organically you're always going to have the odd little nip or damage from any pests. Leek moth is one of the things that commonly is found in the garlic crop and the damage, as far as I'm concerned, is more cosmetic as long as you keep it under control.
Speaker 3:And so what is this? How do you take care of this moth and what does it? How does it attack? Is it? Does it lay eggs? That causes problems, or what?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it'll. It usually shows up when the scapes are developing and the scape is the flowering part of the plant, and that's usually sometime third or fourth week of June and the leek moth will fly in. It could be anywhere, so it's not necessarily something that's shown up in your ground. It could have come from a neighbor's and they'll bury it into the stalk of the flower scape and travel down into the bulb Lay the eggs.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, now I know that scapes, I still have a bunch and I freeze a bunch and they're great to work with pesto and essentially the scapes are kind of like I don't know how do you describe it and how do you describe a scape?
Speaker 4:Well, the flavor is a milder garlic. I find it's milder than the bulb. Doesn't contain the oil like the bulb does's one.
Speaker 3:It apparently makes the best pesto yeah it uh, and it's kind of a solid, kind of uh, almost like it looks like a what like a green onion sort of thing oh, the, the.
Speaker 4:yeah, it's um. When it first appears it's more tender, kind of tender like a bean plant fruit would be like the pot of a bean. But as the weeks go on then it gets tougher and that's so it can stand up straight. And then it develops the bubbles on the top of the plant which are like clones of the mother plant, top of the plant which are like clones of the mother plant.
Speaker 3:So if you plant your garlic in the fall, you get your scapes in about June, correct? Mm-hmm, what happens if you plant your garlic in the spring? Will it still produce and will it get scapes?
Speaker 4:It depends on which variety. Some varieties are a lot more vigorous than other varieties. You won't get as big of a bulb because the first thing when you plant garlic, it develops a root system. It's the root system that's going to be feeding that top part of the plant. So when you plant in the spring, you're not giving it enough time to develop a proper root system. So your bulbs will be smaller and it might not even have the energy to throw up a flower or a flowerscape.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, and now does the size of the clove matter that you're planting? Like, are seed cloves a lot larger than regular ones? Because I have to be honest Now for those that don't know, I get garlic from Bev all the time because she's got like the best garlic going and in her bulbs there's like four huge cloves inside. But when I get it from other places there's like 10 little rinky, dinky things and they're hard to work with and a lot more work, but hers are great. So does it matter on the size of the clove when you're planting, uh, or will that dictate how?
Speaker 4:yeah, my experience has been that the the larger the piece you put in the ground, the bigger the bulb you will have. Garlic is considered a heavy feeder, meaning it's a very hungry plant and you need to feed it as much as possible and that will give you the best results. But yes, the bigger the piece that goes in, I believe will give you a bigger bulb.
Speaker 3:Okay, and what kind of food do you feed garlic in order to get it to grow large?
Speaker 4:of food. Do you feed the garlic in order to get it to grow large? Well, when I plant the trench that I plant into, I, uh, I add, uh, well, composted manure to it. Or if I don't have manure, you can use compost. Compost is a little bit less nutritious nutrient than, um, than the manure, uh and so and then I cover up my, my clothes, and across the top where they're planted, I'll put another band of manure so that every time it rains, the rain will trickle down through the manure into the and and take a little bit of nutrients into the, the area that your cloves are growing. And then, in the spring, I will use fish emulsion which you mix up in a watering can and I'll do a foliar feed. All plants take in nutrients through their leaves as well as their root system.
Speaker 3:So what is this fish emulsion? Is it something you buy, or do you make it yourself?
Speaker 4:You could probably make it yourself. Uh, you could probably make it yourself. Um, I think it's like deceased fish that have been, you know, kind of um, liquefied and then made into a, a solution in in a bottle, which is what, what is considered a, and then so you'd go, you can get it at any hardware store, so it's concentrated. So, whatever the directions are on the container, you would add water to it and just put it in your watering, can add the water and then go up and down your rows and just cover the leaves with the liquid.
Speaker 3:So do the leaves actually take it in through the leaves? Absolutely yeah, oh, I did not know that?
Speaker 4:Yes, as well as the root system.
Speaker 3:Oh, really, I had no idea.
Speaker 4:Yeah that's why they call it a foliar feed.
Speaker 3:A foliar feed? Okay, and is there different types of foliar feeds?
Speaker 4:Oh, you could make your own. You could stuff a nylon stocking full of manure and tie it to the handle of a five gallon pail and fill the pail up with water and let it steep for a week.
Speaker 3:Oh really, and then just pour it, and it'll be absorbed through the leaves and to get into the yes.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, I had no, I've never heard that. That's something new for me and I'm well, I'm not a big gardener, so I didn't know this, but this is very interesting, Interesting. So what other sorts of things should people be getting ready for for their gardens and the other stuff that further, because we're now into September and the people are, you know, harvesting all their products and getting ready for fall plantings. What other sort of planting should they be preparing for?
Speaker 4:There's not too much, too much. I mean, if you've got access to plants to plant, you could always plant some, you know, berry bushes, like if you're doing the blueberries, or raspberries. But it's a hard time of the year to find things in pots or bare root to plant. So spring is normally when we plant. But for the garden, cleanup is really important. So if you've had any issues with, you know, insects or disease, all the leftover waste of your plant should be, you know, taken out of the garden and either burnt or, you know, bagged, sent to the landfill. I prefer to burn things because, you know, know, I don't want to fill up the landfill with my problems, um and um. If you're going to cultivate, this is the time to work your garden. It's best to work it in the fall because if you, when you turn it up, if there's, you know, grubs and things like that in your garden, the birds will help clean that up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like fall leaves. I know my grandfather on my mother's side and my wife's parents. What they used to do is rake the leaves into a pile and then take the lawnmower over the pile and cut it up into real small pieces and then use the lawnmower to blow it onto a like a tarp and they, when they haul that tarp out and then mix it into the garden and use that as as what a mulch, and that helps out well, you're adding organic matter.
Speaker 4:So when they're doing that, the best gardens are gardens where the gardener is mindset is I'm feeding the soil, not the plants. And so by doing that with the leaves, you're conditioning the soil, you're introducing good bacteria, good ability to lighten a heavy soil or, if you have like a sandy soil, it helps a sandy soil retain more moisture and have a like it.
Speaker 3:There's a whole living community in the ground and the more organic matter you get into your ground, the better it is yeah, I know I have some pretty sandy soil where I had some juniper bushes in it and we took the juniper bushes out out, but it's all completely sandy. So what I tried doing was using sawdust, because I cut a lot of wood and so I saved pails of sawdust and put that and mix that into the soil. And actually we make our own dog food and one of the parts we use is three and a half cups of rice, but I wash the rice and I use the rice starch to put in the into that with the sawdust and hoping to rebuild that. But I am seeing some better looking soil, not as sandy as it was before. Am am I doing things right? Am I doing things wrong? Am I trying stuff?
Speaker 4:no, I I think by adding the wood shavings to the soil is a good solution. Just keep in mind that, as those wood chips and the shavings and sawdust as they break down, they need nitrogen to break down, but the end result will be nitrogen. Do you know what I mean? Like you do lose a little with the breakdown, but if you get it back once it is broken down, okay, and so how do I add nitrogen to that?
Speaker 3:what can I add there?
Speaker 4:um, I'm trying to think of something organic with a well like, um, you can add potato starch or rice starch to it.
Speaker 3:Is that? Is that a good thing? A bad?
Speaker 4:thing. I've never heard about the rice starch, to be totally honest, so I'd have to look into that, but that's interesting, yeah, anyway. So yeah, bone meal or or blood meal the only thing if you have a dog, I always feel that it kind of attracts the dog to start digging in your garden.
Speaker 3:Okay, so, bev. So I've mentioned this a number of times on the program before and I don't know whether it's just coincidence or what, but every time we have a skunk in the yard and I did a whole series of talks about my chocolate lab gunner getting sprayed by a skunk. Anyways, when we see a skunk in the yard, what I end up doing is going around to the coffee shops grabbing a load of coffee grounds and spread those around and guess what? The skunks just stay away. They don't come back, and I don't know whether it's by chance or coincidence or what, but it seems to work every time. I don't know. Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker 4:um other than with yourself. But I I can kind of see it working, because the skunk is going through your lawn looking for the grubs and by using the coffee grounds, I'm sure they're masking the smell of the grubs, so they just keep on going, because all they can smell is coffee, I would think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm guessing that as well, but it certainly seems to work, and every once in a while I refresh with coffee grounds, which you know end up being good nitrogen, I believe, for the soil when it starts to break down, if I remember correctly.
Speaker 4:Yes, it does. Yeah, my oldest boy used to work at a coffee shop and he used to bring home the coffee grounds when he was working there. But yeah, I'd add it to my composter for sure.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, Well, that's good. So, bev, you know anything else you can tell us about getting ready? You know you said preparation for the fall and cleaning. Now, one of the things I remember Puddle Duck Farms had growing garlic and he got some bug in his that got into his garlic crop and it's supposed to stay in the ground for like five years.
Speaker 4:Yeah, nematodes.
Speaker 3:Oh, is it nematodes.
Speaker 4:That's what I think it is. Yeah, it's not a good thing.
Speaker 3:No, that's what he said. So he stopped growing garlic completely, because it just destroyed his garlic crop.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. I believe that we know somebody at our Saturday market who ran into the same thing and that's come in on the seed garlic. That's why I always use my own.
Speaker 3:Oh really, it's come in on the seed garlic.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3:It's usually something you've introduced to bring them in, because they're like piggybacking eh yeah, so when you're using seed garlic, do you take that uh, is it just the straight garlic and you take that kind of uh covering off it the whatever that skin is off it, and then plant it in the garden that way, or do you leave the skin on?
Speaker 4:oh, yeah, you leave. You leave the paper, yeah, and the skin is what used to be the leaf. But yes, you leave it on. You just divide your bulbs into the different sections and plant them fat side down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, ok, oh, interesting, ok, well, that's yeah, because you usually get that little green top. And how deep do you plant them when you plant those garlic bulbs, that little green top, and how deep do you plant them when you plant those, the garlic bulbs?
Speaker 4:I like to see about two inches of soil over top of the very tip of the clove. Okay, good.
Speaker 6:Hi everybody. I'm Angelo Viola and I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's Favorite Fishing Show, but now we're hosting a podcast.
Speaker 7:That's right. Every Thursday, Ang and I will be right here in your ears bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio Hmm.
Speaker 6:Now, what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?
Speaker 7:Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
Speaker 1:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
Speaker 6:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show.
Speaker 7:We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors, from athletes, All the other guys would go golfing Me and Garth and Turk and all the Russians would go fishing To scientists, now that we're reforesting and letting things breathe.
Speaker 1:It's the perfect transmission environment for line fishing.
Speaker 2:To chefs If any game isn't cooked properly, marinated, you will taste it.
Speaker 7:And whoever else will pick up the phone Wherever you are.
Speaker 6:Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside.
Speaker 7:Find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:And now it's time for another testimonial for Chaga Health and Wellness. Okay, I'm here in Millbrook with Trevor, who had a great experience and wants to share it with us with the skin cream, the Chaga skin cream. Trevor, tell us what you went through and how much you used and go ahead.
Speaker 5:I've had eczema on my arm since I was a little kid and it's always been quite a rough patch there on my arm and no lotion seemed to ever get it so that it was smooth, right. But using the Chaga, probably for three weeks, it feels like normal skin now. Yeah, and how often did you put it on? I put it on maybe once every other day. I didn't remember to do it every day. So, yeah, but once every other day, one time a day, very good, and you had great results and now it feels like normal skin again.
Speaker 5:Very good, and you didn't try anything else, so you figured that's what? No, that worked, so I'm sticking with that.
Speaker 3:Very good. Well, thanks, trevor, here in Millbrook. Yeah, okay, we interrupt this program to bring you a special offer from Chaga Health Wellness. If you've listened this far and you're still wondering about this strange mushroom that I keep talking about and whether you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of interest to you. To thank you for listening to the show, I'm going to make trying Chaga that much easier by giving you a dollar off all our Chaga products at checkout. All you have to do is head over to our website, chagahealthandwellnesscom, place a few items in the cart and check out with the code CANOPY C-A-N-O-P-Y. If you're new to Chaga, I'd highly recommend the regular Chaga tea. This comes with 15 tea bags per package and each bag gives you around five or six cups of tea. Hey, thanks for listening Back to the episode, but, bev, now you actually you've taken on another position in your building, or helping, or working or putting together a farmer's market, are you not On a Thursday in Lindsay?
Speaker 4:together a farmer's market, are you not on a thursday and lindsey? Yeah, I'm work. I'm working on improving one that's been around for I think we've had six full years as as of today, but, um, yeah, it's a thursday market in in lindsey yeah, and how's that going? It's going pretty good. We've had terrible weather this year Almost every Thursday. It's either been high winds or freezing temperatures in the spring, or rain. Rain's been the major, even though we just went through an incredible drought, but in the spring we had a lot of wet Thursdays.
Speaker 3:Right. And so when you start a new farmer's market so I believe the classification is 51% of the people there have to be producers. Is that right?
Speaker 4:For our area. Yeah, to be a farmer's market and this is the health unit is involved with. Wanting it to be a producer's market is more correct. So to be classified as a producer's market, you have to have 50% plus one producers.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah.
Speaker 3:And these health departments I got to tell you they read their own rules and, depending on what health department you're with you, get different rules out of the same Right, yeah, and these health departments, I got to tell you they read their own rules and, depending on what health department you're with you, get different rules out of the same book. It's just the way they interpret them and it drives you a bit crazy for people who end up going to different areas to try and promote their product. Yeah, and some of them are, quite frankly, for those that watch Seinfeld, the soup Nazis of health departments and they're going to straighten out the farmers markets and get them all. And it's just like you know, these are people just trying to. This is a lot of their income.
Speaker 3:I don't know about you, but a lot of the other ones that are and we go with Jagat Health and Wellness to a number of markets and try and follow the rules of everybody. Everybody has different rules and they just arbitrarily interpret it differently for each of them and there's no consistency and it's very frustrating it is frustrating, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's almost like they're putting up walls um and all we want provide local food yeah, and that's a difficulty because a lot of the the supplemental income that comes in for for agricultural producers is done at these farmers markets. Yes, but if they're getting deterred as to coming there, it reduces their likelihood or desire to come there. And why bother than just do a roadside market rather than go through all the hassles to deal with the interpretations? But yeah, so what kind of stuff do you have on your Thursday markets and what sort of vendors do you have?
Speaker 4:Well, this year we have mostly full-time vendors and we have a farm that's just south of the Lindsay area, fisher Farms, and they bring a lot of fresh local vegetables and fruit to the market. Right now it's corn season and they've been even with that dry weather. Their corn has been very good but they've got like peppers and carrots and beets and even some beautiful watermelon and cantaloupe this year, and they usually have squashes to to, you know, kind of wind up the season.
Speaker 6:Um, we have uh.
Speaker 4:Another uh fellow that comes in from the berry area and he has um cured meats. The name of his business is superior meats and he also brings cheeses with his, his cured meats right, so would he be classified as a producer?
Speaker 3:no, he's not no yeah, but if he raised his own meat and processed it then yes, be correct, we would be right. He has to grow the meat yeah, right, in order to to fall into the classification right, we.
Speaker 4:We have someone with a nice selection of preserves at the market and she's just started a conspiracy farms Monica. She's just started doing the freeze dried food, so she's had some tomatoes and watermelon. It's quite interesting to try because the flavor is all there, but it's just like chewing on, I don't know, a piece of cereal out of a box. It's a different experience, but very good, yeah.
Speaker 3:So freeze-dried watermelon and some other things like the tomatoes and that you said right.
Speaker 4:That's right. Yeah, and we have a honey producer and she is considered a producer and she has some local honey. She's from just north of, uh, the lindsey area and she has candles and beeswax wraps and she even makes some butter tarts with her honey. But she has quite a nice variety of honey products. Um, we have a beautiful baker. She's got prize-winning pastry, so she's got pies and tarts and scones and fudge and cookies and loaves.
Speaker 3:Yeah, A woodworker.
Speaker 4:Chris, yes, he does custom work but he does a lot of signs for home, cottage or the garden and he does have some other wood products. I'm not sure what he's got on his table right at the moment, but he makes crib boards for, you know, families to play cribbage yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I talked him into making some large, oversized crib boards. I hate those little rinky dinky things. Uh, that are what?
Speaker 3:uh, four inches by eight inches or ten inches long yeah, and so I got him to make a one that's basically about 30 inches long by about I don't know probably 14 inches wide and uh it's. It's a little more fun to play rather than the small stuff, because up at the Chaga Picking Camp that we have, we've got a crib board up there that basically the pegs would be the size of a very thick pencil.
Speaker 3:And it's like four feet long by about uh, I don't know 16 inches wide and it's. It's part of the fun of being in uh chaga picking camp um, by playing crib at the end of the day with this huge board. So that kind of inspired me to get some other ones.
Speaker 4:So well you can get, you can take the game outside, whether you know out you're at a cottage or whether you're camping or a picnic. It's, it's.
Speaker 3:It's a great idea, jerry yeah, and now you've got uh, the dog treat guy that shows up pretty regular now too jeremy with his canine pantry.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he has got dog treats and I don't know how would you? I would describe them as ride or slash dried animal parts. But um right, the dogs that come to the market can know it's there before the owner does yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so a lot of people bring their dogs to the market just to walk around because they have all the dog treats that, uh, they end up going. So it's a bit of a an outgoing as well. I know there's another Bev that shows up at that Thursday market that brings her dog. Last time I was talking to her she said I got the look because the dog knew it was Thursday and I was going to the market and didn't take the dog. It was not a happy camper.
Speaker 4:I did notice he's got also a spray for the ticks. It's a bad season for ticks. There's numerous ticks, um, probably the heavy snow load has protected them from the cold over the winter.
Speaker 3:But I did notice he's got a spray for some ticks yeah, a natural dog spray for ticks right I think so yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, plus you have uh people that uh provide lunches there and things like that yeah, we do have a food cart um geraldine.
Speaker 4:She's got um barbecue that she sets up and she does hot dogs and sausage on a bun and p-mil on a bun and pea meal on a bun and cold drinks. And something that is new and I had never heard of it is the Don Air, and it's kind of like a meatloaf specialty on a bun. It's quite good, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you have the samosas and the other meat producers for lunches and things like that.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep, we've got Nar with his Nar Spice Bar. He has pakoras and samosas and he does a coconut square. That's quite nice more traditional Indian food, I believe, and I think he has some chutneys as well on his table.
Speaker 3:And then you have some pop-up ones, that which are kind of short term. So you have the one person selling fly fishing stuff.
Speaker 4:Yes, that's Helen, she's just in, for she's new to the area, so she's. We were able to fit her in for a five-week visit and, uh, she does um. She's an artist, so she does oil on paper, I guess. But she's got quite a an array of um her artwork, plus the the fly fishing jewelry.
Speaker 3:She's got some beautiful earrings and then you had some um soap producers and some other ones along, that cosmetic kind of stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we had a soap producer in. She came for 10 weeks, but she has a full-time job, so she used up all her holidays to join us this summer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now how is it with the city of Lindsay? Do they work with you, do they provide, or how do you start or come up with the idea if you want to start a farmer's market?
Speaker 4:Well, my sister, barb, and I started it up and what we did was we made an appointment and we approached the city. So there's a representative of the city who looks after the agriculture end. Representative about this. The city who looks after the agriculture end. So our, our meeting with her also involved, um, a girl from that heads up the parks and rec. So, um, you know, we proposed a new market and and asked them about location and they had three or four options for us, but we, we thought that this, this option with the high visibility, would be the best at the time. So, yeah, so we have a contract that we renew every year with the city and we do rent the space up there, right?
Speaker 4:So it's up in Wilson Fields, I think it's called, and right by a new subdivision yeah, there's um, there's the main street, kent street, and it kind of dissects and that's where all all the businesses are pretty much set up. There's other ones, but the main part of the business community is along kent street and saint joseph's road runs north of it and it's just out by the mall that has the Rexall winners. There's a large fitness place there as well. I can't think of the name of it right now, but St Joseph's Road runs north off of Kent Street and we're just up there over the hill behind Loblaws.
Speaker 3:And, of course, you're there with all your plants and your good seed garlic and the garlic that you got. I know, yeah, there's quite a demand because I just love those bulbs that only have about four or five cloves in each of the bulbs and they're large bulbs which are great to work with, great to cook with, great to use uh, for garlic. And for those that don't know, garlic has a lot of medicinal applications for a lot of people as well, and blood pressure and a lot of issues like that, which is good, yeah. So how people get in touch with you if they want to, uh to to come out and become a vendor and what do they need to be a vendor at your market? Like, I think they need a tent and obviously, with the weather, weights and stuff like that and tables or what Tell us, kind of walk us through. How do they get in touch with you to try and figure out what they can do to come out and be a vendor?
Speaker 4:Well, they can contact me through my email address, which is kingswarfgardens at gmailcom, and wharf is spelt W-H-A-R-F as in Frank. We started looking and vetting vendors in February and this year we had all kinds of activity and we were pretty much booked up by the end of March. And again, we have to keep our proportions right for producers. So producers are always welcome at our market. We've now got one, two, three, three vegetable producers and I think you know if we had another one it would have to be something more specialized, like microgreens, to give a little bit more variety. But yeah, and you've got to have a plan and a commitment.
Speaker 4:I do see a lot of the younger vendors who are just starting up and they often think that you know they can just show up, set up and sell out. But you have to, you know, develop a relationship with your customers and have them try your product and if your product's good they'll come back. So repeat customers take time and I know most of the markets that I have joined joined and I'm in my 26th year of doing markets. I know you, you need about two or three years to set, you know, establish a good customer base yeah, it takes a bit of time.
Speaker 3:I know I attend the Thursday market now and trying to help build it and with the check of health and wellness and a of people, it takes a long time to first of all to get people to know and it's the regular customers that come back, that kind of give you the base and then it's the additional sales that you make, that kind of move your sales along to make it well worthwhile. But it takes a bit of time to build up that base. I know when I first started with Jagger Health and Wellness, we tried just about everything in, you know, retail, online, et cetera, et cetera, and the markets were some one area that I had other people suggested I try. So I tried it and then, certainly when I showed up, everybody looked and said what's that, said what's that and you can tell.
Speaker 3:You know, and I mentioned this Bev and I'll try to get Bev on, if I can get her, if she shows up and I can get her record, I'll get her to tell her story. You know that she had no idea what it was and just by the grace of God, it's certainly helped her immensely in her life and her father's life and now she spreads the word to other people and that's how you sort of build. So when it first started out I was covering gas and now we have a good clientele base that show up on a regular basis to help put it along.
Speaker 4:Well, I noticed your customers seem to they're always stocking up is what I noticed. You know they don't buy one package, it's usually a couple, maybe three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so for new vendors coming out, you mentioned Kings Wharf Gardens to get in touch with you Now. Is it something that they can still come out for this part of the year if they're here and are interested in moving their products? And I think what we've heard here is it's not just what's called a farmer's market, it's not just farmers. There's artisans there, there's beekeepers, there's woodworkers, there's preserves, there's dog treats, there's all kind of different things that people have the ability to come out and promote their products, right?
Speaker 4:Right, and I think, jerry, before I forget to mention it, is that I think one of the big bonuses of our site is the easy accessibility, like, especially if you're physically challenged at all. Like, our parking lot is paved, it's, you know, even it's smooth. So we do have people coming with walkers. Um, there is a retirement community just south of us, blooms, and we're getting a good number of people from there, as well as the heritage way, which is east of us, on the same side of the road, just before you get over to uh angeline street, and they come with their walkers and it's nice and smooth, um, and there's lots of parking yeah, and it's uh just off highway 35, right just past the opp station.
Speaker 3:Yes, and you're going up from seven. You know that first set of lights. You turn east there and it's just down the road there. But you can talk to um master gardener Bev and get a lot of details about gardening and questions. Like you said, you had a. Some people ask these questions and you're able to help out and that's not a problem to get that kind of uh support.
Speaker 4:But people come out to see you yeah, not, not a problem, I am even this time of the year. I still answer garden questions, and especially for the young people who are starting out. They're very keen, but they just need a little bit more information and confidence to go forward and to try it again, because gardening is successes and failures.
Speaker 3:Yes and well, that's how you learn is making mistakes and, believe me, I've made lots of mistakes in my life. You can just ask my wife, Diane. She'll be more than happy to tell you. But that's all part of life.
Speaker 4:Right it is. That's how you learn, like you said.
Speaker 3:All right, bev. Well, how do people get in touch with you once again and tell us the details of when the market is, the times it is and how long does it run this year?
Speaker 4:So the Thursday market runs from the very first week of May, the first Thursday, right through till the Thursday before Thanksgiving. Our hours are 10 till 3. And I don't think there's much more to add than that.
Speaker 3:When's the last one? Does it go all year long, or when?
Speaker 4:No, it's the Thursday before Thanksgiving. Okay, so that's October this year. I'd have to check my calendar, but it's the Thursday before the Thanksgiving weekend.
Speaker 3:Okay, and people are welcome to show up just to walk around and and I know that, uh, well, some things like uh, there's uh free chaga samples and things like that that potentially might be there for people to try. Yes, so come on out, come on out and and see what you can see at the uh, the wilson fields uh farmer's market on thursdays 10 till 3 until the Thursday of the Thanksgiving weekend, just before right.
Speaker 4:That's correct, and if anybody needs to get a hold of me again, my email address is kingswarfgardens at gmailcom.
Speaker 3:Well, thanks very much, master Gardener Bev, we really appreciate you taking the time to be on this and hopefully people will come out and ask some questions. There's specific questions about gardening on the Thursday markets with you. Just a little bit something different and more learning about things happening out there under the canopy. Thanks, bev.
Speaker 4:Thank you, Jerry.
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