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Under the Canopy
On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, former Minister of Natural Resources, Jerry Ouellette takes you along on the journey to see the places and meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and Under The Canopy.
Under the Canopy
Episode 119: How Invasive Species Spread And What You Can Do
A single “kind” release can rewrite a whole ecosystem. We open with hard‑won lessons from a deep bush chaga trip—gear that saved the day, how to improvise repairs miles from a road, and the thrill of spotting brook trout in a stream you could step over—then pivot to what really threatens our waters: invasive species carried by trade and well‑intentioned pet owners.
Katie Church, Aquatic Invasive Plant Coordinator at the Invasive Species Centre, joins us to break down the European water chestnut story in clear, practical terms. You’ll learn how to identify those floating rosettes, why the barbed seeds are a hazard, and how manual removal by canoe works when communities act early. We also dig into reporting tools like EDDMapS, Ontario’s Invasive Species Act, and the outreach power behind the Don’t Let It Loose campaign.
From there, we tackle the pet pipeline. Goldfish don’t stay small in stormwater ponds; they grow large, stir up sediment, block sunlight, reduce oxygen, and set the stage for algae blooms. Red‑eared sliders compete with native turtles already under pressure. Marbled crayfish can clone themselves, meaning one escape can spark a population. We share smart, humane alternatives—rehoming through retailers, aquarist groups, sanctuaries, and schools—so you never face a release decision at the water’s edge.
If you care about healthy lakes, clean shorelines, native fish, and vibrant wetlands, this conversation gives you the field knowledge and the civic tools to make a difference today. Learn the signs, report what you see, and help stop the next introduction before it starts. If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves the outdoors, and leave a quick review to help more stewards find these resources.
Hi everybody, I'm Angelo Viola. And I'm Pete Bowman. Now you might know us as the hosts of Canada's favorite fishing show, but now we're hosting a podcast. That's right. Every Thursday, Ang and I'll be right here in your ears, bringing you a brand new episode of Outdoor Journal Radio. Hmm. Now what are we going to talk about for two hours every week?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know there's going to be a lot of fishing.
SPEAKER_03:I knew exactly where those fish were going to be and how to catch them, and they were easy to catch.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, but it's not just a fishing show. We're going to be talking to people from all facets of the outdoors. From athletes.
SPEAKER_03:All the other guys would go golfing. Me and Garchom Turk. And all the Russians would go fishing. The scientists. And now that we're reforesting and letting things, it's the perfect transmission environment for line disease.
SPEAKER_02:Chefs, if any game isn't cooked properly, marinated for me. You will taste it.
SPEAKER_08:And whoever else will pick up the phone. Wherever you are, Outdoor Journal Radio seeks to answer the questions and tell the stories of all those who enjoy being outside.
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SPEAKER_06:I'm Jerry Olette, and I was honored to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as Chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal applications used by indigenous peoples all over the globe. After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials, and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession. And I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. So join me today for another great episode, and hopefully, we can inspire a few more people to live their lives under the canopy. Well, hello all, and as always, we're thanking the listeners, Canadawide. Really appreciate that. Actually, uh from Mary Ann down of Brightonway, who was telling me that she was just shocked that that somebody heard the podcast, which was done and released about a year ago, and uh wanted to come down to her shop because they're from Toronto, had never been to Brighton. So she thought that was just spectacular. So she didn't mention the names, but to those in Toronto, thank you for coming. Thank you for supporting the uh the programs that are out there. We really appreciate that. You know, and we're back now from from our chaga pick. And uh Garrett's uh my youngest son, he's out uh muskie fishing. And and I I gotta tell you, so it's it's that time of the year where I guess the season's ending for muskie, and they kind of congregate in a spawning area down in uh southwestern Ontario. So he and a couple of fishing buddies go down and they head down there uh for a few days of muskie fishing. They went last year, nothing. Nobody caught a single muskie, and they're heading back again because it's supposed to be good, but haven't been there, haven't seen it, don't know, but just hear about it, so that's kind of neat. The other thing, you know, I I used to have a friend, uh bless his soul, Doug. And uh Doug um used to uh head up with uh Doug and Dan used to I think it was Blind River uh about this month as well, end of November, I believe it was, because they used to fish sturgeon ri uh fish up there because they'd come up to spawn. And you'd get sturgeon coming in that were about four feet long, and I guess it was quite spectacular to to fish the to be able to fish the for the sturgeon come in, but they've closed that season now to to try and get a handle on the sturgeon uh market in Ontario or the populations around and see if we can recoup some, because it's uh a long-living large fish that uh a lot of people uh well, quite a few people do enjoy fishing for, but uh anyway, so they're closed that, but it was good at that time. And when we were out doing our chagapic, it was interesting that Garrett takes me in, I and I mentioned it when we did the live recordings from camp that uh we're we're heading in and and it's just like where are we going? Well, you gotta get off the ATV here, and it was like like seven, eight, ten kilometers into the bush that we headed was a heck of a long ways that he had walked to find all these jaggers. And I think I mentioned we had three jaggers that were the two were uh three of them. The total was uh around a hundred pounds for the three, which was uh shocking to see. But one of the other things that was interesting was that we're talking about fish was I said, Garrett, look at that. What? And and this stream is probably three feet, four feet wide. And it's hard to tell if it's it's constantly running or it's just because of the amount of rain that we had up there. But I said, Look, look, right there, there's a a brook drought right there. And it was it was a good size, it was a six, seven inch one, which you usually don't see, and quite surprised. And he said, I always wondered if there were specks brook drought up in this area, but really nice to see. Really deep in the bush, really hard to find. But we know where they are now. So when the bugs aren't bad, maybe, just maybe we might head out and see. Some of the stuff though that I didn't mention that um uh at the camp first of all, we tried the drone. Remember, I had said we had taken a drone up. Well, uh the difficulty with where we were was is that there was no internet connection. So as soon as you try to use a drone without internet connection, it gives you extremely limited range. So the range was you could go up and you could go along, but it wasn't giving us the range that we were hoping to get that's listed that you get normally when there's internet connection around. And so what it does do is it kind of goes into I don't know, secure mode where minimum height, minimum distance from the landing point, which is probably a hundred yards, which does not help uh distance from the the furthest extent sort of thing. So that didn't help out, and the drone really didn't work out that great. But some of the other stuff was that uh um yeah the things that we needed in camp that people don't think about. Now, one of the things was, of course, booster cables or a booster pack. We carry booster packs in the ATVs because if it dies, at least you can get uh a boost uh if you don't have a a pull cable on your ATV, and Roley's has a pulled cable and Ron's has a pole cable, but Garrett's does not. And so a booster pack is a big help. And one of the other things was was a tire repair kit and an air pump. Now you've got the for the ATVs, you know, Roley always had a foot pump that you could pump it up because it doesn't take a lot, but some of these places have now these these battery operated pumps that are very small in size and easy to carry. And when we were doing a one one area where they had just cut in um logging and they were logging in the area, um Roley and I took the truck up to check out and see what we could see if there's a lot of birch there and if there was anything along the road. So uh we did find some, but uh perfectly honest, uh there was quite a bit of rotten stuff up there, and you could tell when it was rotten. But Roley picked up this huge it almost looks like a logging lug of some kind. And I it it's about the size of a per an average person's thumb that was right in his tire. So we get back and uh we're out uh in there and we walk around the corner and hey, flat tire. So we look at it, and sure enough, this this this bolt it it's you could tell it was well worn too. Had uh penetrated his tire, but uh pulled out the uh tire repair kit, which is works great, and not only that, but uh and then we had air pumps to pump the tires up. So that worked very well, and we've had to use the tire pumps quite a bit, and the re the repair can it you can pick them up at um Canadian Tire and all places like that, pretty cheap. And uh it it's very simple to use. You take the hole out, you put make sure that there's air inside the tire. Uh you put the uh it looks like a kind of like a screwdriver with a um and you put this uh rubber unit in that kind of seals it on its own, trim off the the excess, pull it out, and then you fill the tire back up and it worked great. But yeah, so uh and of course one of the other things that I didn't mention was a good first aid kit, which you know we usually keep in the in a vehicle as well, and in camp. Now I got uh a very good kit that I put up in the camp, which we have there, and smaller ones in the in the um vehicles. But this time before I went up, I had a little bit of an injury that I had x-rays and ultrasounds on and and uh both of them said, It appears that there's a foreign body in there. I said, Well, do what we gotta do. So anyway, so they gave me medication and while I'm up in camp, this thing swells up huge. It looks like somebody had taken a a large grape and placed it under my skin because it was so high up and the inflammation was everywhere. So we went in, uh, went into the local hospital, and I got cut open and and uh they released all that, couldn't find anything because they said the body dissolved it. But just to make sure that uh you've got a good first aid kit along with some of the other things that we mentioned. Uh make it a a far better trip. Some of the other stuff that we usually carry is bungee cords. I remember uh Rowley's brother Bert was up, we were doing a Jagu pick, and uh the his strap on his battery went, so it was bouncing and hanging all over the place, so we had bungee cords there. And uh the other thing that worked really good is when we have zip ties. And we use zip ties a lot. So I know one time the the brake light uh unit fell out of Garrett's truck because the support plastic had broken, and we used zip ties to zip that back in place to keep it there until we could get a new unit in there. But those are some of the basic things along with the other things that we mentioned. But those were all things that uh we we had a great time. We had a good harvest, so it's it's looking very good. And we're moving on now. We got a great guest coming on, Katie Church from the Invasive Species Center in Ontario. Welcome to the program, Katie.
SPEAKER_04:Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, not a problem at all. So tell us a bit about yourself. First of all, where you're located. So people uh internationally who listen to us, as we're listening to in the States and Switzerland, Saudi, uh the Caribbean, quite a few places. Uh give people a sense of where you're located.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so uh the Invasive Species Center is actually located in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, uh right up north where Lake Superior is. Uh but we have remote staff all throughout Ontario. So I'm actually located in Hamilton, Ontario.
SPEAKER_06:Aaron Powell Yeah, Hamilton. Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah, I was when I was minister, I actually uh protected the uh what was it, the Hermosa cars there?
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So that was one of the things. So you're in Hamilton. So tell us what what kind of background do you have uh how to to get into the position you're with with the organization?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, um so I am uh I actually graduated from Sioux College. I was an environmental technician. Um and then uh took uh Niagara College, the ecosystem restoration uh program there, um, and worked with the Invasive Species Center on an aquatic plant project. So it kind of uh guided me into this uh aquatic plant coordinator role.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, so so your official title is you're the aquatic plant coordinator?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, aquatic invasive plant coordinator.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so what was this uh research you did on the specific plant that you just mentioned?
SPEAKER_04:Um yeah, so European water chestnut uh uh is an invasive aquatic plant that uh was reported in the Niagara region um in 2020. And the Invasive Species Center uh created a rapid response program to remove it. So I was the lead on that. Um it was really fun uh with all the field experience that I had prior to in school and a couple other jobs that I've worked. Uh it was really fun canoeing all summer pulling this plant.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, yeah. So how would a plant like that uh so the must have some background on it because you did a paper on it? Um how would a plant like that get into Ontario in the first place?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so this is part of the uh organisms in trade uh plants and uh organ uh organisms. Um this plant was an ornamental water garden plant that was introduced to North America um and kind of uh uh through improper uh care was released. Um so if you think about a water garden in someone's backyard uh you know could overflow and then float into a closer water body and actually established uh can establish in in larger bodies of water.
SPEAKER_10:Right.
SPEAKER_04:So uh this plant uh has spread through the eastern United States up to uh Quebec and down into eastern Ontario, um, and is pop has popped up in in the Niagara region of Ontario recently.
SPEAKER_06:Aaron Ross Powell So is it something I'm not familiar with the plant offhand, but um uh there's water chestnuts, of course, which uh are an edible plant. Is this is this an edible plant as well?
SPEAKER_04:Uh this one is not edible. This is called European water chestnut. Um it's actually uh a really pretty ornamental water garden plant that floats to the top, uh, has this really nice white flower, um, but then underneath has these very uh uh large, what they're called chestnuts. Um, and uh that's what creates new plants and new rosettes. And uh they can actually be very uh impactful to human health. They have these really sharp barbed edges on the seeds. Um so it wouldn't be fun to step on something like that.
SPEAKER_06:Um is this something that uh potentially birds might consume and and trans transport at other locations as well?
SPEAKER_04:Um there has been studies where um the uh seed has been attached to like a duck's uh um f feathers on them and has flown and established somewhere else. Um but we don't really know how it's been moved around.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. I just wondered, uh there's quite a bit of stuff like that, you know, birds will eat uh what uh purple loose strife seeds and then pass them in low new locations and potentially cause problems there. I I believe that's a situation or an example of something that one of the evasive plants can be transmitted around. Yes?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Correct. So and what's the proper removal of these plants? Like how do you get rid of them?
SPEAKER_04:Uh so it's manual removal. Um from what we did in in uh the Niagara region, we actually hand pull them. Uh they need to be removed. The whole plant needs to be removed out of the substrate. Um so basically, we're in canoes. We canoe uh to places on the river where they have established and pull them out of the substrate.
SPEAKER_06:So is it easy to identify to be able to pull them? Is there a certain time of year you pull them?
SPEAKER_04:Um yeah. So actually, this plant doesn't look like any other of our native aquatic vegetation. It's very uh noticeable. Um it it's uh the the leaves have uh serrations on them and they float to the top in this uh circle. So it's it's very it's a very noticeable plant, which makes it really easy to identify and pull.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so what does it displace? Does it displace it uh choking out other plants?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so when we talk about invasive species, we talk about impacts to uh the environment, economy, and society. And European water chestnut uh does all three. Um so impacts to uh uh the environment, uh it can uh outshade um uh native plants, uh reduce bio plant native plant di biodiversity, uh, impact species at risk habitat. And um uh yeah, so that's for for the environment, for the economy. It's uh not a fun plant or seed to step on. Um so this plant, these seeds can wash up on sandy shores and uh be very detrimental to um uh uh people if they step on it, it can go right through a flip-flop. And also for uh society, it can really decrease property value, um, especially when you have large established populations.
SPEAKER_06:Oh so um where can people go to to find out if they've identified and what do they do if they do identify one? How do they contact people to deal with this or try and manage it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so in Ontario, it's actually listed as a prohibited species. Um so I would suggest if you do see something uh that uh it looks like water, European water chestnut, um, you can uh go on our website. We have awesome photos of this plant and uh report it to uh EdMaps, which is an invasive species reporting hotline uh uh website or app, or you can report it to the invasive species hotline.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Are there animals that feed on this? Like would uh turtles, uh some turtles or or fish, carp, uh anything like that feed on any of that at all?
SPEAKER_04:Um as of right now, we don't we don't know. Um they don't seem to have any natural predators in this this introduce area, um, which is very common in invasive species.
SPEAKER_06:Aaron Powell Okay. Well, I know I uh I tried to bring in a private member's bill that uh dealt with invasive species and I used examples of zebra mussels and the impact on the outpipes on and the intake pipes for Ontario Hydro. I think it was, as I recall, was it was in the area of like$60 million just to clean those to make sure that they were free from zebra mussels and all the potential problems with that. And there was a lot of other um I think there was I think it was uh one of the gobies that came in on a single ship and could be identified to the one ship where it was released into Michigan, I believe, somewhere, in their ballast water discharge. So what I did was I tried to bring in a legislation that that essentially anybody found to be responsible for introducing an invasive species is was responsible for the cleanup and removal of that species. Well, the shipping industry went nuts on that because it had huge implications. And we got into deep water discharge where they try to discharge the ballast water from from areas where they would pick up ballast water. And you know, they I mentioned that Gobi, I think it was the Gobi, that um they picked up and they do a complete discharge of the water uh and replace it with deep water so that they eliminate because uh the the amount of uh plant or animal life in in there because the sun can't get down is virtually minimal. And then they started uh they committed to do other things like um I think there was uh what UV lighting specific types to kill all the plant life in the in the ballast tanks. And it was quite a response. Actually, um the state of um Michigan asked me to present at uh Senate committee hearings, and it surprisingly uh the first hearings were in Sault Ste. Marie because they found this very, very interesting, and then they asked me to do a series of of uh presentations in in Detroit and other locations as well, because it it was something that was starting to concern a lot of people, which is good. And you know, hence we have the organization that you work with to try and identify and remove and control or inform people about these invasive species.
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SPEAKER_06:Okay, we're with Bev here in Lindsay. And Bev, you've got some experience with Chaga that you'd like to share with some people. Tell us uh two stories. Guys, start with your father's story.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, Jerry. Um Well, um my dad had mentioned to me that he was struggling with his blood pressure and he'd gone on meds and it wasn't bringing it down. He was running around 180, 185, and wasn't enjoying that at all. And um And so I suggested that he try the chaga tea because I knew some other people that had had good experience with it, and I knew my own experience with it. He started doing the chug of tea every day. Um he stuck it in with his coffee, so he only had to drink one thing a day, and within three weeks he had dropped from 180 to 140, which he was really excited about. But what he was even more excited about was that about three to four weeks after that, he had gone down to 125. So we're really grateful for the difference that chaga has made with his blood pressure.
SPEAKER_05:There wasn't any other medications or changes this to do the change?
SPEAKER_00:No, this was the actually the only shift. He didn't shift anything diet-wise, physical exercise-wise at all. The only thing he added in that he hadn't been doing before was chaga.
SPEAKER_06:And put it in his coffee, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:And he put it in his coffee.
SPEAKER_06:Very good. Okay, and you have your own story now. I have my own story.
SPEAKER_00:So I I started on chaga when I um I met Jerry just as I realized that I was going into a relapse of multiple cirrhosis, that I I had not relapsed for approximately 25 years, so I was a little startled about it and wanted to get on it. And um, so I was in the process of changing a lot of things so that I could um go back into relapse rather than dealing with the MS symptoms. And so I did change diet and I stopped physical exercise so that my body would have more rest, and I added the chaka in. And within within I mean within five days, I noticed that the nerve sensory issues I was having in my legs was already settling down, and within about three weeks I had the strength to walk unassisted again. And I am about three months in now, and um I have um taken a 10-day break from it a couple of times just to, you know, you know, just so that my body, you know, can stay balanced, you know, without it. But every time I go back on it, I um I can feel the difference in mental clarity and in the way my nerves are communicating, and I'm I'm walking very, very well now.
SPEAKER_06:Very good. Well, thank you very much for sharing your story with the case.
SPEAKER_00:No, thanks for thanks for hollering me and asking me to try a free cup that one farmer's market morning.
SPEAKER_06:Well, I'm glad it's working out for you. Thanks, Jerry. Okay. We interrupt this program to bring you a special offer from Chaga Health and Wellness. If you've listened this far and you're still wondering about this strange mushroom that I keep talking about, and whether you would benefit from it or not, I may have something of interest to you. To thank you for listening to the show, I'm going to make trying Chaga that much easier by giving you a dollar off all our Chaga products at checkout. All you have to do is head over to our website, Chaga Health and Wellness.com, place a few items in the cart, and check out with the code CANopy. C-A-N-O-P-Y. If you're new to Chaga, I'd highly recommend the regular Chaga tea. This comes with 15 tea bags per package, and each bag gives you around five or six cups of tea. Hey, thanks for listening. Back to the episode. Katie, um, so what happens uh when a pet is released into an environment? I know we had uh my sons wanted my one son wanted a turtle. So we had this turtle for like five years, and then it was just like, I don't want the turtle anymore. It was a red-eared slider, but we found a turtle sanctuary of some kind that uh dealt with turtles that took the turtle. My wife took it over. But what happens when people just release uh this stuff into the into the environment?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so um loose pets can have negative impacts uh to natural ecosystems, right? Uh they can spread disease, outcompete native species for resources and prey on those native species. They can also contribute to habitat degrad degradation and increase uh pressure on endangered or threatened species at risk. Um a lot of times people will release pets on uh like moral and compassionate grounds, but they don't take into account the ecological uh integrity of that ecosystem.
SPEAKER_10:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Um and that can uh jeopardize the the ecosystem and the natural area that it's released into.
SPEAKER_06:So I and I know there's a real problem with um uh certain cultures releasing things like goldfish out uh uh into areas. What happens when goldfish take uh hold in these in these ponds? And I've seen them. I know one golf course I go to that and to be perfect, I gotta mention this now. Uh what I do is I get ready to go pick Chaga in the bush because I walk 13, 15 kilometers, bush kilometers a day doing all this stuff. But what I do in the year is uh I go out golfing and I walk. I walk the course and it's great exercise and it gets me ready for the pick. But one of the courses I see is the pond there is filled with a large pond is filled with goldfish. What happens in situations like that? And how do you get the message out that this is not good for the environment?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so uh invasive goldfish uh are when they're released into wild ecosystems, they can actually grow very much larger than uh what they were in the size of when they were in captivity. Yep. They're actually also very adaptable, um, and they're able to live in a variety of environmental conditions. And goldfish are very common, a very common pet that uh you see is that can be released. Um they're often found in those quiet, populated urban and suburban waters, you know, a stormwater pond near your house or the the park uh near your house pond that might have it. Uh people often Intentionally will release them wanting to give this fish a better life. But yeah, they don't realize the impacts that they can have to the natural ecosystems. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_06:So what happens when people release goldfish and they start to uh populate and spawn? I mean, there was a great blue heron consuming the goldfish in this one pond. That's how I first saw them. Was the Great Blue Heron was there. And these were rather large goldfish. I mean, we're talking probably a pound and a half, a pound, pound and a half at the size from what I can see.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, they feed on anything small uh that's near the bottom bottom of a water body. Um this can actually contribute to uh turbidity. The the feeding can stir up the bottom of the water body that they're in, and that limits sunlight for aquatic plants. And with that, it reduces uh available oxygen oxygen in the water. Um and that can directly contribute to algae blooms. Um you know, they can impact food chains and and kill aquatic wildlife, and they can also spread diseases to other carp species, uh, which can be passed on to other fish.
SPEAKER_06:Um and I I believe there are some Asian cultures that it's it's supposed to be good luck to release these uh and out there. Uh if I am I correct there?
SPEAKER_04:Uh I think so, yes.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, so and it gets a big problem. Now, uh what about other things like you know, your red-eared slider, your marbled crayfish, and and releasing what's the what's happened on some of the impact with those?
SPEAKER_04:Um yeah, so red-eared sliders are uh turtles that are actually a very common aquatic uh first pet for people. Um a lot of people don't realize that they can live quite long. Um so you know, that's a a very common first pet for people. Uh and uh they actually look very similar to our native painted turtles. Um but it's important to note that most native turtles in Ontario are uh listed as a species at risk. So introducing a turtle that's not native into the natural environment can really impact our native turtles.
SPEAKER_06:Right. And so how would things like marbled crayfish uh get into the environment then?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, marbled crayfish um was recently reported for the first time in uh the wild in uh Ontario, and it actually uh can be extremely detrimental to ecosystems. Um they have the ability to clone, uh, and the introduction of a single female uh marbled crayfish can can establish basically a new population. This is a very common uh aquarium uh crayfish, and it's a very common uh uh crayfish that's traded in the aquarium trade because they produce so many of them.
SPEAKER_06:So now is there not controls for these these uh businesses to to not bring those sort of things in, or how does that take place?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so in Ontario we have uh the Invasive Species Act. Um, and there's many uh species that are on there through the organisms and trade uh pathway uh that are listed as prohibited. Um so that that's you know the marbled crayfish. Uh that's uh European water chestnut that I I spoke about. Um uh and what that means, it's it's illegal to import, possess, deposit, release, transport, breed, grow, sell, trade. Um so yeah, there there is the Ontario Invasive Species Act that regulates those species.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so and and I know I mentioned this one before on the on the podcast, but uh my pastor, Rick, um he had gone away and um Lynn, his wife, um she likes cats, so they had somebody taking care of the cat while they were away. Now the kids had a turtle and somehow probably the cat knocked uh got the the the turtle out of its um cage aquarium, whichever it was in. And when the people came to feed the cat, they found this turtle walking around. So Pastor Rick was telling me, he says, he says, you know, you're not gonna believe this, but he said, I came home and the people looking after the the cat told me that somebody had put a turtle through the mail slot in the door and it was walking around. So we we uh got rid of it, we released it for you. And and Pastor Baker says, No, no, that was the kid's pet. They'd had it for like 10 years, and it was I guess it was quite large. Anyway, so where did you release it? And they went back for days and weeks trying to find this turtle for the kids who were all upset. But I guess there's accidental uh releases uh that uh take place, like uh you know, unintentional pet releases that take place. And there's a perfect example. And what's the difference between an intentional and uh and uh unintentional release?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so that's a really sorry, that's a really funny story. Um intentional releases, uh a lot of the times, uh I think I've previously said that, but it's that well-intentioned owner that, you know, they see this great pond near their house and they want to give their fish a better life or they want to give their turtle a better life in this nice natural environment. So that's what we talk about when we're talking about intentional. And then there's that unintentional release, right? Like a pet escape, or um, you know, sometimes purchasing uh uh something like a moss ball um and not realizing that it can have uh zebra mussels attached to it. Right. So that's that unintentional release.
SPEAKER_06:Right. And so are there are there more unintentional than intentional releases? Or is there anything tracking that kind of uh what's happening there?
SPEAKER_04:Um we don't have anything to track that, but um I'd say there's it's it's a good balance between both of them. Right and a lot of it is uh outreach and education, right?
SPEAKER_10:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um you see us, we go to pet shows, uh, we go, we have this amazing campaign called Don't Let It Loose. And this is where that education outreach and education piece comes in and why it's so important.
SPEAKER_10:Right.
SPEAKER_04:I've spoken to many pet owners that had no idea that you know the goldfish that they released would be invasive.
SPEAKER_06:Right. I I recall being in a pet store in Pickering, Ontario once, and I was quite surprised that they had soft-shelled turtles that they were selling inside the uh um inside the pet store. Um and so try and find a place to report this to get people to interest to see if uh they were legal or not. Have you ever heard of soft-shelled turtles being sold in pet stores?
SPEAKER_04:I have not, no. Um, but we do have like if you do find you see these things, um, I would suggest reporting it to the invasive species hotline. Um there are people out there that, you know, are able to sell things. Uh the e-commerce pathway is so uh uh uh like booming right now because the world is so much smaller. Um you can get things from anywhere in the world. Um and a lot a lot of the times those go unregulated. Um so I would suggest if you do see something like that reported to that invasive species awareness hotline. Um, you know, when you are purchasing something, uh, you know, think ask yourself certain questions. You know, are the species being sold by a reputable retailer? Um is the species even legal to have in in the region you live in, uh such as you know, the marbled crayfish, uh not legal. Um, you know, is the species native to your the region?
SPEAKER_06:Um, we would never have any clue. When they walk into a pet store and the kids are are wanting a turtle uh for uh for a pet, uh the average parent would not know to even consider uh is this illegal, is it illegal, and how are they getting it here and all that kind of stuff. Although the the more we can inform people, the better off we are in ensuring that the right things are done in the proper manner, not impact negatively impacting our environment, right?
SPEAKER_04:Correct. And it's important, like be a responsible uh pet owner before you even buy a pet, consider uh all the questions you need to know in order to have that pet. And uh can you have that pet? And you know, in are you able to uh uh live through that pet's uh life expectancy, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I I recall, and I think it's right now, there is a um it was an uh and a non-intentional release, I believe, at one of the New York LaGuardia airport where uh parrots got out, and now there's a self-sustaining population of parrots at this this airport.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it was it was kind of interesting. I I can't remember, uh I think it was a green parrot uh that came in, and all of a sudden now there's a self-sustaining population right there. Like you know, we see pigeons around here. Well, they got parrots at this one airport. And and I recall when I was young we had a a budgie, and I actually had the window open in my my bedroom, uh, which was on a different floor from where the budgie was. But the budgie um got out of the cage, somebody let it out, which one of my sisters probably did, and the budgie flew to the next floor where I was and right out the window and was gone.
SPEAKER_10:Oh no.
SPEAKER_06:There's another example of a uh a non-intentional release that takes place that people don't even think about.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and it it all has to do with, you know, not all non-native species are considered invasive, but um it's it's you know, it only takes one, right? Yep. And and it's important to ha you know have that education and know what you're getting yourself into when you're buying a pet.
SPEAKER_06:Aaron Powell Right. And what what kind of things uh should people look at when they consider things like, well, we'll talk and mentioned the turtle. How how long does the turtle live?
SPEAKER_04:I think uh I I've I've spoken to quite a few people at the pet shows that I attend, and people have come up to me and said they've had their turtle for 30 years, their red-eared slider turtle for 30 years. Wow. Um and and just a funny story, uh someone uh didn't realize uh that they needed a a larger uh aquarium for it. So it lives in their bathtub, I guess, is is what they told me. So just be an informed uh purchaser. Uh really understand that uh when you're purchasing a pet, uh, you know, uh uh understand what you're you're purchasing and and uh really educate yourself on, you know, are you gonna be able to take care of it for its whole life? And then what are the options if you don't if you're not able to take care of it?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Well I had when I was young, I had um an iguana, a green iguana that I had and it and it ended it was great. It was a great uh disciplinary thing for my sisters. When they got out of line, I'd pick up the iguana and chase them with it. But uh and it would get it got about four feet long, and it was just you know, it was the time to new aquariums and everything else. So I actually went uh back to a pet store and sold it back to a pet store that they could retail it to somebody else. It was in good health, good size, and everything else. But the pet store was more than happy to get a a sample like that that was quite large, actually. We we actually had a neighbor that had one that was probably about uh five, six feet long that had a harness made up for it. And he used to walk the iguana on the streets uh with this harness in the outdoors in the summertime, but uh it was just one way to to manage it that I took it back in and and somebody else got uh years to enjoy it, I think.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and there are options, right? You can contact the retailer you purchase it from for advice. You can um and see if they're willing to to uh take take the pet back. Um, you know, you can contact another aquarium or pond owner or pet owner and see if they're interested in adopting. Um you can donate it to a local aquarium society or school. Um and you know, it's it there's there's lots of options out there.
SPEAKER_06:That's good. Now, you mentioned something that uh I don't know if you have much uh background knowledge on uh but algae blooms. Do you have a um do you know how what what causes an algae bloom and a green and blue and which are the bad ones and how can you tell when to stay away and things like that? Have you had much experience with algae blooms?
SPEAKER_04:I have not, but um I can tell you what I do know. Um so algae blooms a lot of the times happen when there's like an imbalance. Um so you know, I can go back to the goldfish. Uh, you know, the reason that they contribute to the algae blooms is because they stir up that sediment and they, you know, that prevents the sun from um um peaking through. Same with aquatic plants, when they grow and they cover that surface area of the water, the sun's not getting through. Right. And that can that can contribute to those algae blooms.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I I I tried to find somebody because it was algae blooms very concerning. And a lot of and I don't understand how what uh initiates some uh the phosphate or all the other things that go on that bring concerns and which is more toxic, the green or the blue, and things like that. But uh it was something that I I wanted to delve into a little bit more. But that's something that we could probably find. Uh somebody has some more experience in work on algae blooms, I guess.
SPEAKER_04:Aaron Powell Yeah. I'm I mean, I I like I said I know what in how invasive species impact it, but I don't know this the sp particular science behind it.
SPEAKER_06:Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so uh I don't even know which one's worse, or are they both just as bad? Is blue the the worst one?
SPEAKER_04:Or I think I think I've heard uh we've had some algae blooms happen in the the Hamilton Harbor, which is quite common, and I think it's the blue, the blue-green algae that's the the the the harmful one.
SPEAKER_06:Right, right. All right. Well, Katie, thanks very much. I really appreciate the time uh to be on the podcast. And how can people find out more information about uh you know um invasive species, uh the things to watch out for, releasing, and where can they get these websites and information for identification of you mentioned the European water chestnut and things along that line, and how can they go about and getting details about what they should and shouldn't do from your organization?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so we have a website with amazing resources, uh Invasive Species Center.ca. You could also visit uh Invasive Species Center slash don't let it loose. That's our uh uh campaign on uh the what we've just talked about, the pet releases. Um we also uh encourage people to report invasive species. Um when you're out there um and uh if you see something, there's an amazing uh invasive species uh tracking app called EdMaps, uh E D D Maps. Uh it's an early detection and distribution mapping system, and it's similar to iNaturalists, uh, but for reporting invasive species. Um and then you could also um uh call the invasive invading species awareness hotline. Um and like I said, our website has uh some really uh great information on all things invasive species. You can sign up for our uh quarterly newsletter, our bi-weekly media scan to know what's going on in the world for invasive species. And our YouTube channel also has some really good webinars as well.
SPEAKER_06:Well, thanks very much, Katie. Uh, we really appreciate you taking the time to inform us and enlighten us about uh the a number of invaded species, uh, the the European water chestnut, the goldfish and what's happening, the red-heared slider turtle, the marble crayfish, and things along those lines. And uh I appreciate you taking the time, but uh just more information about things that are happening out there under the canopy. Thanks very much, Katie.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_09:I'm your host, Steve Nedzwicky, and you'll find out about that and a whole lot more on the Outdoor Journal Radio Network's newest podcast, Diaries of a Lodge Owner. But this podcast will be more than that. Every week on Diaries of a Lodge Owner, I'm going to introduce you to a ton of great people. Share their stories of our trials, tribulations, and inspirations. Learn and have plenty of laughs along the way.
SPEAKER_07:Meanwhile, we're sitting there bobbing along, trying to figure out how to catch a bass. And we both decided one day we were going to be on television doing efficient jobs.
SPEAKER_03:My hands get sore a little bit when I'm reeling in all those bass in the summertime, but that might be more efficient than it was punchy.
SPEAKER_06:You so confidently you said, Hey Pat, have you ever eaten a drink?
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