The Loving Truth

Ask Sharon: Stop Waiting for Them to Change

• Sharon Pope • Episode 133

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In this episode of Ask Sharon, I’m sharing real questions from women inside my membership program and the unfiltered coaching that followed.

We talk candidly about the overuse of labels like "narcissist," what it's really like to be married to someone on the spectrum, and how to communicate with partners who default to defensiveness.

Whether you're feeling stuck in diagnosis-mode, trying to be understood, or wrestling with someone who simply refuses to change, this conversation is about breaking the cycle, reclaiming your voice, and realizing—you already know more than you think.

Struggling to decide whether to stay or go in your marriage and you’re serious about finding that answer?

Book a Truth & Clarity Session with a member of my team. We’ll discuss where you are in your marriage and explore if there’s a fit for you and I to work together so you can make - and execute - the RIGHT decision for YOU and your marriage.

Speaker 1:

Making a decision about your relationship is never easy, but you don't have to do it alone Inside the Decision, the only place where I offer direct coaching. I help women just like you navigate the uncertainty of their marriage. Today, I'm opening the doors and sharing a behind-the-scenes look at a real Q&A session. In this episode you'll hear real questions, real coaching and real breakthroughs. Whether you're facing a tough decision or just seeking clarity, I hope this gives you exactly what you need to take your next step.

Speaker 2:

These next two. One is about narcissism, one is about their spouse being on the spectrum. I'm going to say this as a blanket statement and, for those of you that have been with me for a minute, you've heard me say this before I don't love labels, I just don't love them. I understand why we have them, because I think it helps us make sense of someone's behavior, and so if we can categorize it and put a label on it, then we can understand it a little better. But I also think that human beings are complex creatures and so, while there is some consistent behavior inside labeled groups that can help us understand them, I also think it limits them in some way. That's my caveat, that's my fine print. Okay, so this person said how does narcissism affect relationships, and then how do I best leave a narcissistic partner? I have another caveat related to narcissism, whether we're talking about being on the spectrum or narcissism, but especially narcissism is one of those things that gets thrown around like candy on Halloween.

Speaker 2:

You're a narcissist and you're a narcissist. You read an article and they give you the 10 ways to diagnose a narcissist, and something as simple as putting your needs before the needs of other people. It may not say once in a while, but it says putting your needs before other people. A lot of women look to men and go. Well, that's you, you always put your needs before other people. A lot of women look to men and go. Well, that's you, you always put your needs before other people. But that's because young boys didn't learn to put their needs last the way young girls did, and young men turn into older men, young women turn into older women, and so they just didn't learn that. But not every man is a narcissist. So I feel like it's super overused, and if you are feeling like, oh my God, this might be the case for me, what I want you to just be aware of is you've just seen it happen. You know how. Sometimes I'll use examples of where, like, if I had a dollar, I'd have a hundred dollars, or if I had $10, every time this happened I'd be in Jamaica.

Speaker 2:

This is one of those where it's probably tens of thousands of people that I've seen get stuck in this, and that is once you start researching narcissism. It is a black fricking hole. You will lose a year of your damn life researching narcissism and gaslighting, because that'll lead to gaslighting. Narcissism and gaslighting because that'll lead to gaslighting One time. I'll tell you this it was early on when I was a coach.

Speaker 2:

I wrote an article about being involved with a narcissist and I got 1800 followers in 48 hours and I was like, oh my God, I hit the money shot. This is awesome. All these people are going to want to work with me. Not a single one. What they wanted to do was swim around in the diagnosis they had made. That proves that they are not the issue. Their partner is the issue. They want to solve the problem and those thousands of women are probably still in that relationship but blaming it on his narcissism. So just be aware, narcissism is super toxic and I'm not suggesting you stay in a relationship with a narcissist, because one of the things that every one of those articles will tell you is it's not going to change and it's pretty damn toxic. So what does it do to relationships?

Speaker 2:

There a a teaching call I did on attachment styles. Very similar the avoidant attachment style is always going to be the narcissist, not always like if. If they are in fact a narcissist, diagnosed by some like a professional not women disgruntled, but a professional then they're going to behave much like an avoidant, which means they're going to withhold their love, which will always leave you longing and wanting. They will give you little hits of love to keep you around and then they'll pull back. Yeah, so the next question was how do I divorce a narcissist? Here's the notes I wrote. You got to manage your mind Like all the tools that I'm teaching about how to manage your mind, all the tools that I'm teaching about how to manage your mind you're going to have to do, because as much as in Divorce Differently how I teach how to do it peacefully and how to walk through it and be very loving a narcissist is not going to be loving and peaceful because they have to be the victim in the story. You have to be the bad guy. It has to be about them. It's never going to be about you or what like yeah, I had a role and you had a role. There's none of that. It's all you and it's not going to be peaceful and all that stuff. So you're going to have to manage your mind like double down on those teachings.

Speaker 2:

Seriously, imagine you tell the narcissist that the marriage is over. His initial reaction is probably going to be screw, you Never wanted to be with you. Anyway, you're a piece of shit. I'll replace you in a minute Some version of that stuff, because that's going to make you feel the worst about you. And then a month or two months, whenever later, don't be surprised if they come back to see if that door is still open and they'll turn on the charm because for them it's about the win and it's a win if they get you back. It's all games right and it's all unhealthy. So while it will be difficult to divorce a narcissist and it won't be peaceful, it's way harder to remain in a relationship with a narcissist.

Speaker 2:

Okay, the next one is about she said I've been having therapy and the therapist suggested that my husband is on the spectrum and that could be why we're having such a hard time. And my therapist says I can teach him, I can be more exact with my needs, but the question is how do I unwind a marriage with a husband on the spectrum? It must be different. So what your therapist told you still works here. You have to be more direct than you have ever ever been. They deal with black and white. They don't deal with the gray, the nuance, the emotion. There isn't any of that, because they don't. Many of them are. They have different abilities to tap into either their emotions or yours. So make things crystal clear. Black and white, directness and clarity is going to be your friend as you move through this.

Speaker 2:

So think about where I might be saying in the Divorce Differently group well, why don't you put together a template separation agreement of what you think would work really really well and then come to him with? Consider this a starting point. I want to hear your feedback and we'll come up with something together. That's not going to work because they're not collaborative in the same way that you and I work. That way, they're very much like how is it going to work? What are we going to do? Everything is very precise.

Speaker 2:

So I don't know your husband on whether or not he has to be the one making the decisions, or if he's good at making decisions, or if you're going to be the one to make the decisions and say this is it? But when I think about the question of when should I stop having sex with my husband when I'm trying to move through divorce, coupled with they're on the spectrum, I'm like that's a no, because it's not clear. Anything mixed message, any nuances, any indirect statements. They're not going to get the indirectness just because you get it. They won't get it, so it will for many women. It's hard for us to be as direct as we need to be, but this will force you to be super direct with him because he won't. It won't register, and then you'll just get more and more frustrated.

Speaker 2:

So there is a woman that I wanted to. I pulled her up and that's why I was a minute late. Sorry about that. I got distracted.

Speaker 2:

So there's a woman that I have published seven of my books with and she was my business coach for two years. Her name is Angela Loria and you can find her on Facebook, but she is now writing about her. She's on the spectrum and apparently it's called Neurotypical. You're new, I guess lots of people know I just learned that but she writes about it and she writes about her experience and how it impacts her as a business leader, where you're trying to lead other people who all have feelings, and she's like I don't even know what to do with that. I will tell you, the day I decided to not work with her was the day that she really hurt my feelings after two years, and I love and adore it. She's a friend of mine. But it is interesting now, several years later, I haven't seen her since pre-COVID how she's writing about her experience, and so if you're wanting to understand that, like if your partner is on the spectrum, I would really encourage you to just follow her.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you'll listen to her talk about publishing books, but she will also talk about how she wrote, about how she and her husband went out on a date night and they went on this art thing where they were making rings or something and how it was a lot of people in a cramped space and then the instructor wasn't very linear in her instructions which messes with her head. And then they all started pounding because it was ironwork. So 10 people in a large space all pounding so noises, crowded space, nonlinear logic and thinking. She was about ready to have a total meltdown and she talks about that and she's like, look, even when someone says to me, calm down, or they touch her like it's supposed to be helpful, it actually exacerbates the issue, because I can't explain to you what the hell is going on up here. All I'm going to do is just start what looks to other people like raging and having an adult temper tantrum. So there's actually there's a lot that I'm learning from her about what it looks like because she's openly sharing so much of it. So if that's something that you want to understand, I would for sure just say just go befriend her on Facebook. You'll find all of her musings which she does about. I would say there's probably two or three a week now. I think part of it is she wants people to understand her and also be able to work with her and know what you're getting into when you do work with her.

Speaker 2:

But the other thing that she talks about there was a post I think it was today where she talks about trying to hide those parts of her before she was accepting of her own neurodivergence. I'm getting it, look at me Is she was denying her own genius and there's a reason. I worked with her for two years and published seven books with her. She is freaking crazy smart. She is so smart and, honestly, the person who wrote in this question she said my husband's very high functioning and I'm like I get it. Person who wrote in this question she said my husband's very high functioning and I'm like I get it Honestly, after working at Chase Bank for so long, almost every executive is on the spectrum. They all have ADHD to some point or ADD or Asperger's or something like that. It feels like probably 90% of executive level corporate America is on the spectrum in some way shape or form, so that's normal. That's why I say there's a reason. I worked with this woman. She helped me build this business into an incredible business.

Speaker 2:

But it's hard to be in relationship with them and you do have to understand it. So, whether you're in relationship with them or you're unwinding a relationship with them and you do have to understand it. So, whether you're in relationship with them or you're unwinding a relationship with them, I would just want to understand it more so that I would know how to engage, how not to engage, how not to just go to them and say, well, calm down. That's not what I meant, because they can't hear that. There's been some conversation around where you say to someone like, are you okay? And they're like that's the stupidest question ever. Clearly I'm not okay. Where you and I would never say that to each other, but to someone with Asperger's that's very confronting because they're so literal they're like are you freaking dumb? No, I'm not okay. You can see it on my face, Otherwise you wouldn't even be asking me. Why are you asking me that? So learn about it and equip yourself and follow your therapist's instructions of be super direct.

Speaker 2:

So how do you start a conversation with someone who is consistently defensive? Is that you try to tee it up Like, look, I have something important I need to talk to you about when would be a good time? First, set up a time because you need their attention. Then when you start that conversation, you start with look, I know our usual pattern is I sort of come at you, even if you don't think you do, just say it Because he's only getting defensive because he thinks he's being attacked. We only get defensive as human beings when we're being attacked. So whether you're attacking him, whether that's your intent or that's just his perspective, he's thinking that. So I know our usual pattern is I come at you and you defend, and then we don't get anywhere.

Speaker 2:

So I'd really like this conversation to go differently. So I'm not going to attack you at all, I'm only going to speak about my perspective. If it's a general topic, like we can't communicate, or we have to talk about finances or parenting, like if it's a broad category, then the first thing I would do is I would say look, we see different. We see let's take parenting we see this issue with our kids differently and I just want to understand your perspective. So can you tell me about why you feel the way you do about this topic and then you let them talk? This is something that almost no one does and it would change the dynamic of every relationship if you did it.

Speaker 2:

Everyone says, like I have something I want to talk to you about. You better sit down, shut up and listen, as opposed to we're not seeing this in the same way. Let me understand your perspective Before I start talking about me and what I want and what I think and how I'm right. Let me understand why you think the way you do. Let's just go in assuming you're not an idiot and that maybe you have logic or reason for why you think the way you do. I just want to understand it. If you go into it with a curious mind, to understand why they think the way they do, and then you have the opportunity for you to share your perspective, I do a whole mini teaching call on this. It's called getting your needs met. I'm pretty sure that's where it is, but I would address it right up front and I would only use I statements and I wouldn't use you statements Because, again, defensiveness is just.

Speaker 2:

He thinks he's being blamed for everything. Now he may still come with the same ammo, because by now it's probably his go-to. If I can defend against it and maybe even get loud enough, she'll shut up and then we won't have to talk about this anymore and I won't have to change anything. Like there's some reason why it's working for him. And so the minute you interrupt that and go, nope, that's not going to work anymore.

Speaker 2:

I had a client who said well, he just shuts down and he goes to the bedroom and slams the door. I'm like what do you think I would do If I was in that room and he did that to me? What do you think I would do? She's like oh, you'd probably go knock that door down. I said I don't know if I knocked the door down, but I for sure would be like nope, we're not doing this. We are adults, we can talk about this stuff. Like I just don't give up. I'm like a dog on a damn bone, my poor husband. You know what I mean. Like that's how you can have a conversation with someone who is historically defensive, what they're probably avoiding.

Speaker 2:

If you can understand it from a human behavior perspective, we reach for blame when we don't want to feel shame. So if I can't sit in the shame of my own actions, it's so much easier. I'll just push the blame off. I'll be like they're not consciously thinking about it. It's unconscious, it's a protection mechanism, but that's what they're reaching for. They cannot go there, to that place of shame about their own actions or their own behaviors. So it's easier I'll just blame you. So I understand it. But eventually either something has to change or it doesn't, and then you have a decision to make.

Speaker 2:

He knows I have a foot out the door and he's not changed anything. That is some important information, isn't it Good to know? Thank you for that reminder. He's not interested in changing anything. Sometimes it's so interesting to me how sometimes the most consistent spouses are the ones where it's like I have to work the hardest with the woman to go yep, because that's who he is. This is what he does, this is what he always does, this is what he will always do. It either works for you or it doesn't, and we're only doing something because it works for us on some level, like, oh, I don't have to walk through the pain of divorce. I'll just sit here and bitch about it Like, if he's that consistent, okay, good to know. Thank you for that reminder. I know what I need to do. It sucks and I know what I need to do. Just don't hang in there for 10 or 20 years, ladies, trying to get him to change.

Speaker 1:

Finding clarity in your relationship is one of the most important journeys you'll ever take, and you don't have to do it alone. If you're ready for support and guidance, apply for a truth and clarity session. You'll speak with a member of my team, who will help you explore your situation and see if working together is the right next step for you. Visit clarityformymarriagecom to apply now. We'd love to support you on this journey.