LISTEN LINDA BOOK CLUB LIVE SPECIAL GUEST: CHYREL J. JACKSON

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:14

Girl, you got this. I just love that. I just love it. Hey everybody, and welcome to the Listen Linda Book Club Live. I'm your host, Dr. Jacqueline Cox. And listen, today is not just another episode. Today is a whole experience. Okay. We are celebrating international Black Women's History Month. And when I tell you today's feature author is bringing culture, faith, and poetic fire, I mean that. Okay. Today we are joined by the incredible, the anointed pen, the voice of legacy, Cheryl Jacqueline Jackson, author of Sisters, Rock and Rhyme presents unsung canon ballads. And listen, this ain't just poetry, okay? This is healing. This is history. This is voice. This is truth. Okay. So y'all already know what to do. Share this live, tag somebody, and get ready because today stories are singing and voices are rising. But before we do anything, y'all know we gotta bow our heads and pray. Okay, Father God, thank you for this moment. Thank you for every listener, every voice, every story represented here today. God, we thank you for the gift inside of Cheryl Jacqueline Jackson and a gift that does not just write, but ministers, heals, and restores, Lord God. Let this conversation reach who it needs to reach. Let chains be broken through words, let somebody feel seen, heard, and understood today. And God, we honor you as the author of all things in Jesus' mighty name. Amen. All right, all right. So I'm gonna bring up right now Cheryl Jacqueline Jackson. Now you know I gotta put that Jacqueline in there because people need to know what time it is. Amen. Yeah, we have the same thing. I'm great. How are you? Girl, I can't complain. What good is it gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

It's not gonna do any good at all. So we just gonna roll with it in faith, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:32

That is right now, Cheryl, for those just meeting you today. Who are you behind the titles, behind the awards? Who are you at the core?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

This is an easy question. I am a servant of God. That's who I am.

unknown 2:51

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

Oh, that's it. Oh that is who she is at the core, y'all. She is just a servant of God. Amen. That's right. Now, Miss Cheryl Jacqueline, because you know I can't be in Jacqueline, because I just found out her name was Jacqueline. Y'all, you threw me for a loop. Okay. So, Miss Cheryl, when did you first realize your words weren't just writing but ministry?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I always knew it. And I know that sounds a little arrogant, but when it was really abundantly clear to me was when I was 19 years old at DePaul University and college, and James Baldwin greeted us as our lecturer that day, as opposed to Dr. O'Brien, it was Mr. James Baldwin. And that was huge for me. At 19, did I understand did I understand what his words meant? Absolutely not. It took me some 30 years after that to know what he was doing in that moment. But what happened is he asked me what it was I wanted to do. I told him, which was so trite in just being in his presence, telling him that I wanted to be a writer. And he encouraged me to do that. But more importantly, he passed on the literary pen and the torch from one black generation of writers to the next, which was me. And um he said, get your words out there, your story has value, no one can tell it like you can. So 19.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Amen. Wow. Wow. Wow. James Baldwin, I would have died right there. I love James Baldwin. Me too. Absolutely love his work. I love his pen. I love his character, the way he the way he used to just be who he was. He wasn't afraid to be who he was. I remember watching a movie. I can't even remember. I don't know if it was a movie or if it was a sitcom. And they had a character playing him. And he went in there and he started to read because the white folk wanted him to read. Yes. He was all good in the hood with me. I loved it. I was like, oh yes. And then I remember seeing him and Nikki Giovanni, and they were like doing some type of show and channel. And she was saying, you know, I it just, and you know, if anybody who knows Jacqueline Cox knows, I am a huge Nikki Giovanni fan. I am a huge um um um uh Maya Angelo fan. I'm a huge Langston Hughes fan, I'm a huge James Baldwin fan. So for you to meet him, oh we're just ah, I just know it was everything you said it was. I know it was.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

You know what it was so it was so powerful, Dr. Jackie, because you know he was not a man of a large statue, and I'm a person of a large statue, large presence. I mean, in stalking feet, I'm six foot two. He was the polar opposite of that.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

He was like he was five three, he was saying he was about five, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, right, about five four, maybe. Yeah, so he he wasn't this big, big presence, but when he opened his mouth, you knew that you were in front of the presence of a king, yeah, and I just loved him.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Yes, I know you did, because I do and I ain't never met him. So I'm just let me stop fangirling for a minute. Let me get back to these questions. Because I we could talk about James Bobber all day. I would ask you a million questions just about that, okay? But we gotta get we gotta keep it moving. Y'all can ask about James Bobin in her inbox, okay? I know I'm gonna have some more questions after this. Um, but the title Unsung Canon Ballads is powerful. What does canon represent to you personally?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Um that title, it it reminds me of just the promised land that God promised his people. And um, so that's what that means. That's these are unsung, which is uncelebrated, poems, which is ballads of Canaan land, which is the promised land. So that's what the title means. It's unsung poems of God's promised land. That's what the title means.

SPEAKER_05 7:37

That is awesome. See, and that's how you know you're in the presence of a true poet, because we could take those words and flip them every which way until Sunday, but only we know what it means to us. And that's what you know, Dr. Velma, she always tells me, I have a way with words, I have a way that I word things that only I can really truly understand, unless it's another poetic person in front of me, then they will probably get it. So absolutely. Your work reflects culture, history, and identity. What stories did you feel were being ignored that you just had to tell somebody? That you just had to write about.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

There are so many, but let's do this succinctly because we are have we have limited time. But the main one is I feel that people need to understand that so many times when they're recalling our history and they're telling our stories, it starts with the North Atlantic slave trade. Absolutely. But black people didn't just pop up boom in the slave trade. We have a whole other history that no one ever talks about before slavery. And I I kind of wanted to just kind of get in there and let people know that there are other things going on with this, with with black people that have absolutely nothing to do with that small, small, small portion of the story. So I just kind of wanted to go in there and explore different you know topics. You know, what if we were a nation of priests and musicians and kings and queens? What if we just had this whole other culture and identity that was just uniquely ours, that that is never talked about. And so that's that's really the the the sentiment behind a lot of those points in this book.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

Wow, that is so fascinating. I'm sitting here like, tell me, I'm just so fascinated by just the way that you're describing it is just absolutely, and I went and got it, y'all. I got it on Kindle, but I had to get the physical copy in my hand.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

You floored me, Dr. Jackie. You just floored me. I was like, what?

SPEAKER_05 10:08

Well, you know, I'm a true supporter of anybody that comes on my show, and I always believe that in order to have a good interview, you have to do your research. Don't want to bring nobody on your show, you ain't never read the book. Because ChatGPT can only do so much, it can't read the book for you, especially if you ain't got it. And you have to read the book to know what kind of questions you're gonna ask, okay? Um, but that's just for my podcasters out there, my fellow lovely podcasters out there. Do your research, actually support the people that's coming on your show because I know it means a lot to the authors when they see me holding their books in there, you know, in my hands, because that means that I'm actually taking the time to read, to be able to research, do my research on my guests, and just give you a real full experience instead of something generated by code, you know. But no more shade, nobody. Let me get back to it. Okay, the book has been described as healing for hurting the hurting soul. What parts of you had to heal while writing this book?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Um, Dr. Jackie, I lost my dad um six years ago. I did and uh I I I by admission am a dad's girl. I know you are as well. I know that your loss and grief process was approximately around it's it's very our stories are very similar.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Yeah, because we lost our dads around the same time. Around the same time six years ago, April 6, 2000.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

And I lost my dad in March, right? Wow. So we are we are just kind of compatible spiritual sisters.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Um and and I had so I carried so much grief.

unknown 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Um, because life happens and and and you fight with people and you disagree with people. And me and my dad uh disagreed with each other uh a l later on in life, uh, because he was not he was a flawed Superman. And see, in in my story, you're you're not to be flawed. You you you you are just superman. And when and when my Superman ended up being a little bit more human than I I you know than I remembered uh at him being in life, um I had to reconcile the grief and my hero worship of him and and frankly my disappointment in him for being human and and some sometimes not always measuring up to uh the superhero that that that I created for him, which was impossible because he was a man.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

Wow, wow, wow, wow. That that reminds me so much of like what I went through. I had always been a daddy's girl, even though I was in foster care and going from place to place, um, my dad was very much in my life until I turned about 19 and he started dating somebody younger. Now it didn't matter who he dated before, you know, or Mary Two, he was always his kids since his number one. But it it right when he started dating somebody new is when he started acting different towards us. And I did not like that. So, but he was still always there. He was there for both of my kids' birth, you know, he was there for me when I was pregnant with my first child. You know, he met my husband, he was able to meet my husband before he passed, and you know, I think he was there for the new baby, um, but just around the time, but um, so my dad and me, we just had like a back and forth because when he was on drugs and all that stuff, I never judged my dad because of that. You know, I never judged him for his lifestyle, for the things that he did wrong. But it was just like, you did all this and I had your back. But then you go and you find somebody that you want to be with, and I was willing to accept her too, but it was like she had this thing where it's like it's either me or them, and he chose her, and so that's just what it was. But when he got down sick, my dad was in um he was in a hospital for a brain aneurysm and pneumonia on the brain, and I was there every day at the hospital, um, at therapies and stuff, and he had got back up and he was doing good, and then he went into a diabetic coma while he was in short-term care. Oh, that was the day before he was supposed to come home, so then he went into long-term care. Now I'm driving even further to go see him every day, and then he was supposed to come home. They gave him a date, then COVID happened, and then he caught COVID, and then all the hospitals shut down, and he died out of everything he had fought and was coming home, he died from COVID. And it was like, Are you kidding me? This man beat everything, and this is what took him out. I just couldn't believe it. Um so, yeah. So when I he was always superhero to me, no matter if he did drugs, if he drank, if he did this, if he did that, he was always my dad. And when he started shifting another way, you know, then me and him, we had a lot of friction, so I can understand what you mean by that. Me and my mom was kind of different. I she wasn't super mom to me because she was not never really around. But when my dad passed, me and my mom got closer as far as like talking on the phone and two things, but then me and her had a a fallout around Christmas time. Um, she had tried to commit suicide. Oh no, and then she ended up in the hospital and she already had HIV, so she was already dealing with a lot of different things. Oh no. And me and her, I just got so upset with her when I found out that's what she was trying to do. And I told her, I said, You need to live your life the way you choose. Because I uh again, my mom was on drugs, she was a uh uh woman of you know, a woman of the night or whatever you want to call it, and she did her thing. I never judged my mom for that. I judged her because she wasn't around, you know. That was my thing, right? Um, but I told her, I said, Whatever you're doing in life, if you're happy doing it, do it till you're satisfied, and she ain't stopped because my mom had a rough life, you know. Right, her mom died giving birth to her because her because her dad beat her so bad that she went into early labor and she really died from the what happened with my mom's dad. So when my mama was being molested and stuff by her own dad until she was 16, then she moved, then she got into a gang. And of course, you know what happens when women get in gangs, they gotta go through that, especially in Chicago. And she, you know, was selling drugs or whatever, and first she was a drug dealer and she met my dad, and then they connected, and then they got started doing drugs together, and so you know, all of this is happening, you know. And so I I never blamed my mom or my dad for that because I had grew up knowing that they did that, so it wasn't nothing new, but that's to say, two weeks after me and her now, immediately after I felt like I disrespected my mom, I called her right back and apologized to her because that's just who I am as a person. I just never disrespect my elders, especially my mama. So when I knew that I upset her, I called her back and we talked and we laughed and talked because she's she's a she's a uh uh a comedian like me. Everybody think she's a comedian too. So we laughed, we talked, we kicked it, but then two weeks later, I found out that they found her in an alley where she had been dead for two days, and that was two days before her 49th birthday. Oh god, so and that was two days, and then I went to go view the body, and then when I came home, I had found out that I won Mrs. Illinois USA. So, all of this is happening while I'm producing books, while I'm coming out with women of the waiting room, while I'm doing all these different things, and that's why I say I can really, and I know I just went like maybe four minutes off off point, just trying to explain to you because I really want you to understand, to understand I lost both my parents like that, and we were not on the best of terms when they passed, but I want you to know that they see you, they see you wherever they are, and they know your heart and they know you love them. So don't feel a lot of people feel bad when they have these things with their parents and they feel like, man, I wish I could have. But when those words come out your mouth and they hear they hear you wherever they are, they hear you say, I wish I could have done that differently. Don't feel bad about that, don't hold on, don't let that keep you down because it will drain you. And I don't want you to be drained because they know you love them, they know you wish you could have done things different, they wish they could have done things different. But just know when you scan your ticket, when it's time for you to go, you scan your ticket, y'all gonna meet up again, and it's gonna be like it never happened. So don't hold on, please, Cheryl Jacqueline. Don't hold on to that because I was holding on to that, and I had to learn how to release that and let that go. And that's why we are doing survivor's remorse, the cost of becoming, because you had to go through that to get to where you are now. Okay. I'm sorry, y'all, that I but I had to really just kind of get that so you can because I don't want you to hold that. I don't. I hope you're not holding it. But if you are, let that go. Leave it at the altar because God got you, girl. He knows your heart, he know that that even though you and your dad probably wasn't on the best of terms, you loved your dad and your dad loved you, girl. Don't never, don't never, girl. Don't don't have me up in here crying.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

No, I I I I don't I don't want you to be sad. I don't want you to cry because I am um, thank God, I am a happy person. I'm just very cerebral. Um, and and he made God and and my dad with my mom, they made me, and I'm an incredible person. So I don't hold on to that. You just kind of miss the presence of your parents. You miss your mom and you miss your dad. And uh everything that I do now, it is in memory of them um and the life that they lived. And I I I thought I wrote somewhere in there that in one of the poems that uh you know I I I I write to get past the pain that they had to endure.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

Absolutely. I want to talk because you said something, um, and I want to kind of quote you on it. And tell me if I'm wrong. When you said God is the reason for my gift.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

How do you discern when a poem is coming from you versus when it's coming from God?

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Everything that we are and everything that we ultimately will be. Is because of his mercy and his goodness and his grace. Correct. So I I don't differentiate. There, Dr. Jackie, there are times I've written something. I go back, I look at it, and I look at it and I didn't write that. That is how I know that those were his words.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

And and I was made, I was the vehicle that was used to put them to pen and paper, but those were his words. He placed the words in my being for me to write them so that my publisher, whom I love, um, which is Lisa Tommy Zonaveld, could could put them in this beautiful book that we have. And one of the last things that I remembered, we we had gone back and forth with each other and we had selected the poems, and we were so proud of it. And uh the artwork, she sent me the like the final, the well, there were still like finals, finals to the final. But anyway, the last digital proof that we had, I had to call Lisa back and I said, You know what's missing? She said, What? I said, Lisa, the scriptures are missing, and this book is not going to be published without them. We have to, we have to add them. And she didn't blow up, she didn't get angry. I mean, and we were finished. I mean, the book was done. She said, you know what? Give me, I'm gonna give you some time. She said, and we're gonna just kind of just slow down for a minute. And she she listened to me and she added them and put them in, and then the whole book not only felt complete and and right, but it was the connection that everything needed to just gel and to for this project to be complete. Because I said that this is God's book, and it is the uh first three I wrote for me, but this is his. And this this this work is a perfect, it's perfect in every oh J. Oh, Dr. Cox. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

You are really phenomenal. The way you write is phenomenal, it really is, and I know it's anointed. When you read it, you guys, you can tell the difference between somebody who writes and then somebody who is anointed, and that's the reason why I asked you that question because I knew it. I'm like, the way that the that the pen hit the paper on these, um, it's definitely God's doing. It's definitely God's doing. I really love this book. Um, and I really want to I want to ask you something too. Um, what does it mean to you to be a black writer, a black woman writing in this generation, especially during a time where our voices are being silenced?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

It means absolutely everything because for a minute, with all of the stuff that we're going through, I I felt like I was being silenced, and truthfully speaking, it was hard. It was hard for me to write, but I pushed through. I pressed, I pressed on to complete what I felt was a necessary work and what needed to be said. So it was hard, but you still nonetheless have to continue. And he placed really, really God, strong. My publisher Lisa, she's strong, and I just my sister is another phenomenal writer, she's strong. So I had some some some people. Um, my husband is strong, and he lets me do all of this stuff, you know, when I should be uh probably being more present in home.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

But I know that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

But every every uh my daughter is strong, and she's a beautiful woman, young woman. And you you actually remind me of my Jennifer, but um Hey Gene girl. She is uh she's like you, she's a very beautiful girl. Uh she has a story to tell, but really quickly, um, my Jennifer, she's about 28. She found all these writings that I'd written just packed away in a drawer. And she would always say to me, Mom, these should be published. Why are they just kind of laying around like this? What are you gonna do with these? And I I said, Well, that part of it's it's over for me. I I can't do it, blah, blah, blah. She looked up at me and she said, Are you crazy? She said, The stuff that you're writing, the stuff that you're writing about, it's it's this is relevant to my life right now. And I said, Really? Because the poems were it's they were her age, you know, they were sitting at least her age. And she said, Yeah, mom. And and that is her, that my dad's illness, all kind of just came together all at once. It converged in the right spot. And that was the promise that I made to myself for my uh sister and I that we were going to get our first book published. And the the poems in that particularly, in that first book, uh, she was going through that stuff that I was at her age, and she really connected. Um, and I that's that's why I do it, Dr. Jackal. I do it because uh she could relate to stories that were 28 years old that I'd written in in my 20s, and she just said, you know, I wish you could have seen like the book and the white, like you could tell that book was marked up, it had all these, you know, uh markings in it. Like she was studying, it was just weird. I was like, This why, you know, what is going on in her life that she that's making her connect with writing this old, but good writing is never dated, it's never dated.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

I tell people that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Good writing is never dated, it stands the test of time. That's why people like the people we just mentioned, Dr. Maya Angelou's work, man, um, James Baldwin's work. You can't put a time stamp on that, on those words and that writing because it just it's like the Bible. It it whatever generation you're in, it's going to stand up, and that's how you know that not only is that an anointed work, um, but you know that that's bigger than you, and so and so that's that's why I enjoy writing so much.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

But you know what? I tell people that all the time. Um, when I first started writing Mountains, um I didn't want to finish it. I was because you know, when you when you're writing a memoir and you have to relive those certain things that happened that you done went to therapy for, I done went to Jesus for, I done got over it. And now I'm writing about it and I'm bringing back all these memories and I didn't want to finish it. But when I finished it, and I did a workshop with the group home that I emancipated from, I went back and I did a girls' workshop there. Why was reading the book to the girls, and they all were like, That reminds me so much of what I'm going through now. And I went through that 21 years before I was 14, 15 when I was going through these things that I was talking about in the system, but they could relate. And every time I did a book signing, every time I went and I had an event and I was doing keynote speaking, the girls, the older women, the older, older women that could be my grandmother was like, I went through those same things, and I don't understand how you're able to talk about it, but I thank you for that because now I know that I'm not going through those things alone. And when I talk to a lot of my clients or future clients or hopefully new clients, right? Um, I tell them all the time they don't think that they have a story. And I'm like, you never know who's waiting on the other end of your story, you never know who can relate. It, I don't care if this person is a millionaire or a billionaire. That's why I tell people all the time when they say, Oh, you got to stay in your genre. I don't have to stay in my genre because you never know. It could be somebody who's a millionaire who went through the things I went through. It could be somebody homeless that went through the things that I that I went through. It could be a white person, a Chinese person, a black person, a Haitian person. Don't think that just because you are a black woman in this world, that it's not other people from other cultures, other races, other ethnicities who cannot relate to the things that you go through. Because as women, as people, we go through some of the similar same similar things, but because we keep these stories to ourselves, by the time we get done getting through those things, and we know God got us through those things, we should be able to tell people what we went through and what God brought us through so they can know and have hope as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_05 31:45

And so I'm so grateful for this book. I really am. Um, now I was reading through some of these poems in here, and just like like I like humility, I like Black uh what's it called? Blackbird Simone, because you know that's my girl, Nina Simone, honey. And so I was reading through a lot of these, but I wanted to ask you, especially like Blood on Leaves and stuff like that. So I wanted to ask you which poem was the hardest poem for you to write and why.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Um which one was the hardest?

SPEAKER_05 32:22

Some of them are deep. That's why I was like, which one was hard?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Which one was hard? Um, honestly, none, none of these were uh difficult for me to write. These poems, uh Dr. Cox are uh some of them are two years old already. Um, even though they it was published in in 20 uh 2026. It's not hard for me to write. What's hard for me to do sometimes is I always prided myself on being a happy writer, yeah. Um because my sister is so emotional, she's an emotional writer.

SPEAKER_05 33:08

That's how I am. I'm very emotional.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah, she's she's the she's the one that bears all the emotion and the metaphors and and the we gotta meet her. Yeah, you do need to check in because I tell I tell everyone, I'm asked, you know, who's your favorite writer? And I we all have the Dr. Maya Angelou, Nikki Giovanni, Sonia Sanchez, we can just name them Lucille Clifton, Intezaki Shanghai. We have the women Morgan Richard Oliver, Rita Duck, Gwendolyn Brooks. We have the we have the you know the the women writers in in our carousel that we always go to, that we always go to. But the the woman that I look to and I read and I still read, and some of her words I read on a daily basis. That's my sister, which is Laura's, is because she's a she's a woman's woman. She's a she's a she is that that voice that you search for to tell you, level it out for you to say, okay, it's gonna be all right. Yeah, you just need to need to chill a little bit on the worry and just take a minute because it's gonna be okay. She's she's that voice of okay that I always every every book when I gave her this, the the you know, the final digital proof and all that stuff to kind of go over um so that she could do the forward, because she did the forward to the book. Um and she just she she knocked it out of the park. Um yeah, she really did. And she cried. I said, Because I was always, I thought, I was always the weaker writer, and it used to just drive my husband and my and and and and my daughter, they would cringe, they just were ready to deck me. Because I always thought I was like the weaker writer, and and they would be telling me, but I'm thinking, okay, they're just pumping up mom and wife, that's your yeah, because that's your husband and that's your daughter.

SPEAKER_05 35:19

Not that what they're saying is not true, but I feel that too sometimes, like, oh, you're just saying that could you supposed to?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Right. And so it wasn't until Dr. Cox I I got on uh a uh a talk show. We were doing an interview together uh for International Black Women's History Month, and she really tricked me. I I was waiting for her to read Phenomenal Woman and then talk about Dr. Maya Angelou. And then she says, I know this writer. Our mom used to place us in the bathtub together, and and her birthday is January 15th, and I was like, I was totally taken off guard. And she said, and and she's my favorite writer in the whole world. Well, something changed. It was just it was just really weird to hear her say that about me. It just it kind of, I don't know, it kind of, I don't want to say set me straight, but it kind of let me know, no, you're not weak, the weaker anything. You just kind of need to just, you know, accept where the the the where God has placed you and and be comfortable in it. And so she was able to do that for me. And so now I'm I'm like, I don't, I don't like saying that, but I I just thank God that my sister um is a great, brilliant writer, and I am too.

SPEAKER_05 36:52

Yes, you are. Yes, you are and and and while we're while we're on that subject, um I just want to know, like when someone finishes your finishes your book, what do you want them to walk away feeling or doing differently than they did before they picked up your book?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

I want them to walk away feeling like yeah, grief, grief, grief is a it's a it's a it's a lonely place to be. It's a very sad place to be. But at the end of it, you come out of it, and only God knows where He's gonna take you. But you do come out of it, and there is an end of it, but you need to go through your process, and whatever way you go through it, and however you go through it, and however long it takes you, but there is another. You have more understanding, um, you're more patient, you're more kind. And if we need anything in this world, love, patience, and more kindness. If that's gonna take me, if grief takes me to that place, then I thank God for the grief.

SPEAKER_05 38:24

Amen. Amen. All right, we gotta we gotta pick it up a little bit. We gotta pick it up because she she's about to have me in tears up here, honey. Way she talks. I just love it. But I love it because it, you know, your poetry and the way you write, it really brings out, even though you say you're not an emotional writer, I feel that you are. Um, you may not realize it. Um, but before we get to the next part of the show, I just want to she says she's not an emotional writer. And when she said that, I went through the book and I found one that I know she had to be in her emotions when she wrote it. And it's called Fury Poured Out. Fury poured out. God is shaking the earth, his wrath and anger kindled much. I say it very loudly, he's shaking the earth. Right is wrong, and wrong made right. They the needy are hungry, living on the streets day and night, innocent blood stains the streets, while wealthy people and government feed the insatiable greed, wrath revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness. The state of the world is in a constant mess. People, oh people in the valley of decision. It's time for you to choose. Do you remember the Creator's mission? At some point, we must consider our maker. With fury poured out, the Lord shall roar from Zion, and the heaven shall shake. But the Lord is the hope of the children of Israel, them he'll never forsake. I say it very plainly. God is shaking the earth, and that is not emotion. You had to tell them he was shaking the earth. Decision makers, he's shaking the earth. I know you're emotional, writer. Don't tell me you're not.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

But the last the two other interviews that you and I did together, but it's just more. I get to talk to you a little bit longer. Um, so I I don't know, but anyway, I just am so grateful and so thankful to you for this beautiful platform. Um, the first time I heard your theme song, I just was I I can't explain it.

SPEAKER_05 41:28

You're talking about listen, Linda?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 41:30

Oh, you love listen linda. A lot of people like it's a woman empowerment song. It's it's telling us to get up. Linda is everybody, right? We all are Linda. And you know, when I wrote that song, I was really I was writing that song because the song was actually a poem in my first book, It Can't Always Be Night. The one that I renewed and came out with the same poems, just get reflection on it. But if you read the book, it's called the poem is called Listen, Linda. So all of my songs that I came out with are either poetry that I wrote that I turned into a song or books that I have, you know, that I turned into a song.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

But I do I love that theme song.

SPEAKER_05 42:12

Oh man, it's phenomenal. It's it's it's is really telling us to rise up. We will we were meant to walk in greatness, you know, walk in your greatness, walk in your worth, walk in your truth, be who you are. I love that. Um, and and that is what my whole platform embodies. That's who that's who I am. I want to be that person that lifts up all women, no matter what race, but especially our women of color. I love us, I love us because we are always at the bottom of the totem pole. And you heard me say this time and time again lifting everybody else up. It is everything on our backs, and we lift them up, but they keep us at the bottom and they try to silence us, but then everyone needs the black woman when it's time for any time of retribution or any any they need somebody to fight for them, they always come get us. Everybody, all coaches, y'all come to us. It's the truth, it's the truth because we as we as as women of color, we know how to support people, we know how to encourage people. Our ancestors did it. You know, all of anybody who has ever known a black woman can always say, That woman raised me, that woman taught me right from wrong, that woman taught me how to be strong, that woman gave me confidence to be who I am in this world. It's always been a black woman. Always, always.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

You know, I I I agree with you. I had to learn this lesson very late in life, but I'm thankful and I'm glad because God places certain people in your life for a reason uh to find. Tune you and to retweak the places that you need to uh make better. And uh Lisa is uh is that woman for me. She makes me better in every conceivable way because she makes my heart bigger and she makes my heart larger and she makes my heart include yes, I write for black women because I am one. My sister is one, a strong black woman raised both of us. Um we came from a black woman, our grandmother was a strong black woman, so that that is a given, that's already there. But what Lisa showed me in my lifetime, and and and we are friends. I mean, it it is just more than a publisher and you know the a writer. Right, right. So so so we met. I mean, she finishes, you know, she'll let me finish my sentence and tell me, you know, what you know, she so we're just really in tune with one another. But so she made me understand that it's not it's not the differences, no, because the human condition is more similar and more alike, yeah, in a lot of ways than our than our melon, yeah, exactly. And so I'm grateful to to have that um understanding and and to just know that, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 45:43

Absolutely, absolutely. I totally 100% agree. That's why I said earlier in the segment when I said that we have to know that our stories are not just going to relate to one genre, absolutely, it's gonna relate to all women and some men and absolutely humans. Um but I think, like I said, for me, just me, um, when I hear about or I hear the word black woman, it just it beams something in me because I know that we carry, like I say, more weight than a lot of people, and we are we are here for everyone more so than they are always here for us. You might not want to, but oh they'll be a mission until they need you, and I think that's the reason why. No, I don't think I know that's the reason why I started my platform because I started out with just only women of color.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_05 46:46

I only wanted to work with women of color. I had gone through a season in my life where I well, I did reach out to other platforms that were white or or whatever, they and they were not as accepting, they didn't want a woman of color inside of their their their their platform or inside of their click. And so I was like, okay, well, they're they don't they don't want to accept me. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna build a table.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Now you you remind me of Tony Morrison in this moment. Oh yes, we all that that's another one. Yeah, Tony Morrison was on a uh well-known talk show with a well-known um news correspondent. She was being interviewed, and and and Tony was really perturbed, she was greatly disturbed. She said, You would have never asked.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

Oh no, no, I know exactly which one you were talking about. The interview where the guy said, Why don't you write about white people in your book? And she said, What do you mean? She was upset about that. Why would would white people um be able to see themselves in your book? Y'all want everything, y'all want my book too? I know what she meant by. Oh, so you want me to start writing stuff for y'all? But when are y'all gonna start writing stuff for us? So I got it. Would you ask somebody else that? Oh, I remember that interview. Do you remember that was complimentary to me? Yes, please, please refer me to that person. I would love to be compared to a Tony Morrison honey day of the week, any day of the week, but she's very pro-black.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

I put that in there because that's what I was I was thinking. So I get it, I understand when you say that how and why, and and and and the way you begin your journey and and and to whom you were reaching out and wanting to reach out to, because that is important, the foundation of really anything we do is important.

SPEAKER_05 49:02

And I really um I have expanded it as you can see, and I've opened it to more cultures, more ethnicities, more races. Um, because I've learned as I've been building my platform, um, that sisterhood is not just about one race. Um, but I do want my women of color to understand and know that they are safe here because other races and those other cultures they can go on other platforms and things and they will be accepted. It's hard for us to be safe. Oh, yes, because the same people who I bring to my platform, I'm probably not gonna be as welcomed if I try to go join some of their groups that they're correct. If I want to get in an organization that they attend, it won't be as welcoming as it is for me to welcome them onto my platform. So that is basically I'm I'm here for all women. I love all women, I support all women, but my black women, my Puerto Rican women, my Haitian women, um, my Mexican women, uh, my my women of color. I want you to, my Puerto Rican women, I want you to know that this platform will always be here for you as long as I'm breathing, and even when I'm gone, I'm probably gonna make my my my kids or somebody continue it on. So it's gonna always be here. You will always be safe with listening. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Marvus is wonderful. Do you have a little girl too?

SPEAKER_05 50:36

Oh no, so okay, so Marvis. I have um two biological boys, um, okay, Jaden and Marvis, 15 and 9. But I do have bonus kids. Um, my husband had kids. Um, yes, me. So we have another son, Deontay, he's 26. And we got age, she's 19, and Mar Jay is 18. So we do have daughters, but they are my bonus daughters.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_05 51:03

And then I got my dog, she's Sasha, that's my baby, but um, no, I did donate eggs, and that egg did produce a daughter for another couple.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Oh, I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_05 51:16

So it is, and when I say she look like me, oh wow, phenomenal um experience. And I tell everybody if you have eggs and you're not planning on having any more kids, donate them. Please do for people who need it for IBF, because I did it and it was a phenomenal experience for me.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 51:35

Um, now let's get that okay. We're about to switch it up. Okay. So my favorite part of the show, because we we all we like nine minutes in um before the end of the show. My favorite part of the show, bar for bar. The game is called bar for bar. Now I'm gonna give you two options. No overthinking, no deep breakdown. Just go with what hits your spirit first. You ready? I'm ready. Let's go. Pin or voice. Voice faith or feeling faith, healing or hiding. Healing, purpose or popularity. Oh purpose, writing in pain or writing in peace, writing in pain. Why that one I gotta ask you?

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Because I've written most of my writing in pain, and not only was it healing for me, but it provided healing for who the the receiver, people that receive the work.

SPEAKER_05 52:49

I'm so glad you said that because a lot of my anthologies um I have I have the writers write during pain or reflecting on a painful thing that happened. And I had a um a critic, not a real critic, but I'm gonna call him a critic because I don't want to call him a hater, right? But I had a critic to say, why why do all of your um anthologies have to be trauma binding? And it's like, no, it's not trauma bonding. If you if you are a real writer, you will understand, or a real artist, you will understand and know that that writing is therapy for their healing. You know how many women I have published over 150 stories, and a lot of those women come back to me and say, I didn't even need therapy because that was therapy for me. That was for me. Me just be able to get it out and then to have people to read my chapter or read my book, and then they come back and say, Hey, your story helped me. I've had people who come back to me and say, I was thinking about suicide until I read your book or until I saw the trailer for your book. I was thinking about ending it because I didn't believe that somebody else could go through the things that I went through. So when you write, like you say, you write during pain, or you write in pain because you know somebody else out there is in pain, and they'll be able to heal from that just because they know that you went through something the same, so they know that they're not alone. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

I've that's one of my quotes. It's you know, put the words out there and let the healing begin. Yeah, because when you release the words into the universe, that in and of itself is the start of your healing. Absolutely, and when you heal, you can testify and you become the testimony other people need the whole cycle, can't start though, unless you get the words out there. That's right. So you gotta you gotta whether you write them, whether you sing them, whether you uh dance, dance through them, dance them, perform them, rap them, however, you gotta get them out there. Paint them, paint them, get them out there, get the words out there, because the universe is waiting to receive them, and the healing will flow after you put them out there. So that's that's one of my things.

SPEAKER_05 55:33

After the pain, after the pain comes the peace. Yeah, and before the peace comes the writing.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 55:40

I love that. I love that. Last one obedience or opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

I I don't know, we gotta come back to that one. I gotta circle back.

SPEAKER_05 56:06

Okay, we'll circle back. I'm coming back to it though. Okay. Round two. Now this where it gets deeper. Okay, this way it goes good. Breaking generational cycles or protecting your peace.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Protecting my peace.

SPEAKER_05 56:24

Amen. Tell the truth or keep the peace.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

Tell the truth.

SPEAKER_05 56:36

Write what's safe or write what's real.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Oh no, write what's real.

SPEAKER_05 56:43

Be understood or be obedient to God.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Be obedient to God.

SPEAKER_05 56:50

Legacy or longevity?

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Legacy every time.

SPEAKER_05 56:54

Pain that grows you or comfort that keeps you stuck.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Pain that grows me.

SPEAKER_05 57:03

Spoken word or written poetry?

SPEAKER_01 57:09

Written poetry?

SPEAKER_05 57:11

Poetry that heals or poetry that convicts?

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Poetry that heals.

SPEAKER_05 57:19

Silence or storytelling?

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Storytelling.

SPEAKER_05 57:25

Ancestral voice or personal voice.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

Ancestral voice.

SPEAKER_05 57:33

Pen is therapy or pen is ministry.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Pen is therapy.

SPEAKER_05 57:44

Obedience or opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Obedience.

SPEAKER_05 57:51

Yes. I thank you for saying the right one. Because a lot of times people will they will jump on any opportunity that they see, but they do not consult with the Lord first. They don't get his approval first. They don't pray on it. I love when somebody says, let me pray on this and get back to you. I love that because so many people I have noticed, especially on this blue app called Facebook, they will hop on any opportunity that they see. They don't care what it is. I can put my face on the flyer. I want to be on it. And I have learned, especially with listening to magazine, that every opportunity is not a good one.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

And I have turned down so many people, so many book projects that I could have been a publisher on. I've turned away so many people who wanted to be a part of things. I have turned away so many people wanting to be on the cover of things when it comes to listen, Linda. But I have a brand. And I have I also am a woman of God. And I don't care, I have been offered thousands to do shows, to do TV shows. I have been offered so much to go and be keynote speaker for different events. But if God tells me no, I have to be obedient. And I have to do what God called me to do. And I've had people say, Well, you should do this, or you should do this with this, and you should do that. But no, God didn't tell me to do that. He might have told you to do that. I'm so many people who have come to me about political things, and even though I speak on political things, um, and I know I have a voice, right? But I'm gonna only do so much because God did not tell me that that was my assignment. I'm so grateful you said um obedience over opportunity. I'm so grateful for that. Okay, now let's finish this sentence. No thinking, just flow with it. My pen refuses to stay silent when there are so many wrongs that need to be righted. Oh, that was deep. I might and you might see that somewhere if you do just know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Um God trusted me with this gift because God has trusted me with this gift because I glorify him.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:59

Some people won't like my words because I speak the truth, and however that is, that's gonna be spoken. Amen. I had to earn learn blank before I could write freely.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

This is gonna be hard for me. Um I've always been incredibly honest, but you can be honest, but you don't have to just bring a machete with the delivery, yeah. And I had to learn that over time, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:57

Me too. I used to they used to call me a firecracker, I used to be a firecracker, and I'm still learning that. I will let you all know, uh, full disclosure. Um sometimes some people they they rattle me so bad, I have to go to chat and tell chat, look, I want to write this, but I need to be professional, and I will I will lay it all out and it's therapy because you're in your mind, you're typing this to that person, right? You're saying everything, you call them everything you could think of, and then and now you say, Chat, do your thing and help me and make this professional so I can still keep my job, and they will do it, it will do it, and it it is this is what I'm going through right now, and even with my writing and how I write, right? I'm learning to uh sanitize how I write so I can reach a broader audience, yes, yes, and so I think that is basically what you're saying. You had to kind of sanitize the way because you're you're you you you're a lot like me. We write, and when we write, we tell you everything we want to say, but learn how to sanitize the delivery so it can be palatable to everyone so everybody can get the bigger message, right? Right, right, not be so insulted by some of the words to use, yes, because my delivery sometimes it's it's the you know it's the knockout punch. You're a Capricorn, and my son is a Capricorn, my husband is a Capricorn, so y'all said, Y'all said, and I'm having my husband write his book right now, and I've had to sanitize some things, but I've also allowed his voice to remain, right? Cuss words are gonna be in there because that's what he is, yes, right, and yes, um, but yeah, Capricorns, y'all don't hold no punches. I love y'all. I have my son is a Capricorn, my husband is a Capricorn. I love y'all, I love y'all spirit because y'all truth tellers, but yes, sometimes it gotta be standard, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:19

Me too, me too. I'm a Pisces, but I feel like I should have been a Capricorn, right? Oh Pisces, but it's okay. But we we're just very passionate about things that we care about, speak on those things. Hey, don't put don't put me and uh Cheryl Jacqueline together, okay? We're gonna come fuck you. The Jackies ain't gonna play with y'all, amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

Yeah, my you're my little sister, but you are just Melanie at that's my cousin, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:49

We all just need to just that's my oh that's my oh that's my oh that's my baby. Oh shout out to Melanie the voice Johnson, that's our girl, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Boy, I'm telling you something.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:02

Now we're gonna have Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

I've had the time of my life with you this afternoon, it has just been so great.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:14

Me too, and I know we're finna get ready and go, but I got one more thing I want to say, one more line. I want you to finish. This book is not just poetry, it's words with wings. See, I trying to tell y'all this lady got a way of words. Now, I'm gonna write down words with wings. I'm gonna write and I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna listen to the other one she said. I'm gonna write that down too. Now, if y'all see it in the book of mine, she will be credited, okay? Put her as the cited source, amen. You are phenomenal. Listen, listen today. You want to be later that you're going to be an overlook. Thank you for being obedient. Thank you. Thank you for leaving a lady. What you heard today in your everyday book of life reminding you that your story is not over, your voice is not fine. And God is real writing your next chapter. Until next time, your story thing and voices rise. I want to say thank you all. Dr. I mean, not Dr. But Cheryl, Jacqueline Jackson. John Jackson. I wanted to say Jonathan's so bad. I don't know why. But I'm sorry, Mr. Jackson. Um thank you, Cheryl, Jacqueline Jackson. Is there anything else that you want to say to the audience before we?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

I I just I love all of you guys and I wish you nothing but joy, peace, and happiness.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:33

Who is Artemis? Artemis Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

That's that's that's my that's another sister. I love Artemis. I didn't know she was here.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:42

Oh yeah, she was here. She's been she's been commenting the whole time. Cheryl Jackson is an amazing presence and powerful voice, and her poetry is history making. And she said your reaction was priceless. She was talking about when your sister mentioned that you were her favorite. I've been putting these up. I don't know if you haven't seen them though. And then she said, Amen, sister. And so she's been in here. And thank you so much, Artemis. We appreciate you, we love you, and until next time.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Let me test it real quick. God did that. It's glowing love. It's his glory. Yeah. Look at me now. I did that. Every setback, he flip back, I did that. Every mountain he moved that I did that. Every tea you that I did that. Ayy to the rain in the quake, I did that. Do strain, no face, I did that. When he brought me out the wedding room, I did that. All those tones with a print on my lips. Devil push hover, but I didn't lose my girl. Gotta come in clothes when the world got up. And my fire looking blessed, face up. I got when the ground was breaking. I ain't bragging. I'm just speaking through the same challenge. Just go from me through. Cause he can't make it. He stretched me. That's why it's just that we battle the one that I did that. Every belly won't I do that. Every day. I did that. I did that. I remember being broken in a white room, but it's that done with a joy that we're the glue. It's the girl, I'm a guy who makes tones behaviour. I'm dancing in the freedom on the Jesus cave. My mountain's clothes that my earthquake. My praises are loud, go ahead and take a look. You can't stop for the Lord or day. That's a place to be stayed the whole time. Now I just go each time. I joy that I did, I'm on joy that I did, I joy back, I beat me. Every mountain, every day. Do the way to everything I did. I was trying to flip that. I'll do it in home in the purpose. I did that. Hold the whole break through. Yeah. Look at me now.

unknown 1:11:26

Look at me now.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:27

Only one name gets the credit.