Matt: Welcome, everybody, to Write Out Loud, the podcast about writing, authorship, storytelling, creativity, and all of those arts that you hold so dear. Welcome, welcome, welcome to my fabulous, incredible, tantalizing, titillating, tremendous,
Christina: You got my memo about the alliteration , didn't you?
Matt: Uh, alliteration and new, new adjectives.
Christina: adjectives, man. I, someday I'm going to buy you a thesaurus, just to, highlight all the words you want to use.
Matt: Yes, yes, yes. We'll find some, uh, we'll find some fun ones. I'm more excited because We have a very special guest with us this evening and that is author Michael Fedor.
Michael, welcome to the show.
Christina: Yes.
Michael Fedor: Thank you so much for having me
Matt: Absolutely. So just in case you weren't aware, again, as I said, Michael is an author and he has a book that has been out called what it takes to kill a bull moose. And it is a political thriller that is set in the not too distant future. Michael, tell us a little bit more about you and just, about your, about your book.
Michael Fedor: Yeah, absolutely Well, thanks for having me on guys This is a just a thrilling experience to to get on and talk to you guys and your listeners too not only the craft of writing my first full length novel, but What the heck is it about? And who would want to read a political thriller 2024? I started writing this book 20 years ago when I was teaching English in Pennsylvania in a high school. was right after 9 11, uh, presidential campaign of 2004. I was teaching a lot of Ray Bradbury. I found myself kind of writing my of of sorts, um, a grievances and you know, I wrote a hundred thousand word novel, gave it to a colleague to, to help me work on the editing of it. And I got to tell you, it wasn't very good and got put in a drawer.
It was a, it was an ambition, but it was there yet. you know, A decade passed, some things happened. In my life, I changed careers. I went to work in politics. I worked on campaigns. I worked for local candidates, governor candidates, presidential campaigns. And I came back to story in 2016 because, you know, some aspects of the book were coming true. This campaign where people didn't the candidates and. It was, you know, things were pulling the nation apart. And so I thought, well, maybe I could, you know, get back to writing this story. I took some classes on craft. I read a lot more political thrillers. I started to try to really immerse myself in the genre. Life took over. We had our third child. Got set aside again when January 6, 2021 happened, literally, the ending of my book was like on television and I was thinking, well, I'm either on to something where I can really predict political future. Well, so,
Matt: Yeah.
Michael Fedor: so let me see if I could give us and. Um, you know, I started listening to some podcasts, started doing some more research on craft.
I wrote, rewrote the book from start to finish because who wants to read come true?
Matt: Hmm.
Michael Fedor: And
Matt: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Fedor: So, and I went back to the drawing board. I, I really set out to, to write a story that would really drive forward, that would really ask some really provocative questions about politics. Politics also trying to fill avoid that I felt like wasn't being filled currently in political thriller because Alan Drury, um, who wrote advice and consent in the 50s. I really enjoy Ray Bradbury. Who's more philosophical science fiction. so I was trying to find a way to write a political thriller that didn't involve terrorism.
It didn't involve, um, an international kidnap somebody, um, but still had the same pacing and excitement as, you know, your more mainstream political thriller authors, right. But I really wanted to kind of set it in the American political system and make the principal actors, senators and presidents and vice presidents, the main characters of the story and all those power dynamics and their relationships be the center of that story. And that's how. What it takes to kill a bull moose was born and published this year in June, 2024. And it's been such a dream come true to publish this book. And I can't wait to talk to you content of it. But,
Matt: Yes.
Michael Fedor: for me, it was just, it
was such a, a T it was a 20 year journey of something that I had just kind of always had tucked away. Thankfully, the sequel will not take 20 years. It's coming out this year, uh, book two in the series. So I've got my act together. I know how to write a book a year now,
Matt: That's awesome. That's fantastic. So in this, in this journey, right, you've learned a lot about the process and a lot about, kind of what it takes to get that out there and into the world what has been probably the most difficult part of that for you?
Or the most surprising either way.
Michael Fedor: Yeah, I think the most difficult thing is trying to make sure I the seat of my reader. Um, I know what I want to tell in terms of story, but when I started really putting myself in the shoes of my reader, I found my writing. Could take off and found a whole new dimension when I was not writing for my own satisfaction But for the audience, what would they want to see next? How many is three pages too long on the election of 1824? Okay, maybe it is. Let's let's shorten but I think that um In terms of dialogue, in terms of structure, it was just knowing what the audience would be after in terms of moving forward and wanting them to, you know, they want to read past page to, what does it take to really build a story that can do that?
And there are some actual, Structural and craft things you have to do when you're writing a novel that I didn't know about until I started writing, I started communing with other authors, started reading books on craft and learning the importance of an opening line, importance of dialogue, of the three act structure.
So those all suddenly became so much more important to my writing
Matt: Oh, that's awesome. Okay.
Christina: It's so interesting. I think over my years of working in publishing and working with authors, it's actually surprising hear you talk about a lot of them got started because, oh, know, the story that I wanted to read wasn't out there, and I think you've got that covered and most of them come at the angle of, I want to write a story. that I want to read. But it's interesting that you kind of put on that hat of the reader and say, like you said, some of the historical aspects, is it too long? Is it too? So I think that's, that is really unique. So my question is how much do you think you change your story because of thinking about the reader versus how much, you allow yourself to kind of dual drive the bus.
What I mean by that is first you think of what do I want for the story and then react to it. Think, what does the reader want?
do you come at that? Yeah. clever remember who said it, but, um, they said the first draft is the author telling the story to themselves. And the second draft is changing the story to tell it to the reader. And the third draft is making it something that people will actually want to buy and you'll be proud of. And
Matt: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Fedor: time intentionally after writing the story start to finish, and now I was looking at it as a reader. I could see for myself, there were pieces that didn't work. There were whole chapters that just, they were fun to write, but they just slowed the story down. so what I did was I just created a folder and I would cut and paste those chapters and say, well, this might be better in a, in a future book an author's cut. Um, But it just has to go, no matter how much I love the scene.
And I was thankful to have a great Newell to help me, Figure out how we could get, you know, first draft, 160, 000 words. It's not a book. That's the Lord of the rings. Right.
Christina: gonna say that's
epic fantasy.
Michael Fedor: Right,
Christina: Wrong
Michael Fedor: so
Christina: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Fedor: I had to cut it down like, you know, gruelingly down to 130 000. It's still a long first book But it moves fast Um, but you know, that was that was for me trying to wear those two those two hats together I still think there are pieces of this book that are you know me that I couldn't let go uh, there's long runs about you know history and context that Something that's unique about my political thriller writing is i'm trying to educate the audience about some of these Really unique and special characteristics of american democracy They wouldn't get in a vince flynn or brad thore thriller,
Christina: Yeah.
Michael Fedor: you know They're going to walk away from my go my reading going that's always really exciting And now I know how the filibuster actually works and I had a really really great No review on like amazon or something where this like law professor said, You explain this stuff better than any law book i've ever used to teach a lot of my students when it comes to the American political process he did it in an entertaining way and that for me is like oh,
Christina: Well, Matt has heard me say this before, and I think our listeners have as well. I think I've said it on other podcasts. I have always felt like fiction is the back door to learning and growing. And I'm not just speaking in context of like, historical things and, and things like you're talking about, but it's like, you mentioned him before Ray Bradbury and that. When you said him, it didn't surprise me at all from our conversations via email, from reading the book and, other aspects. So, no, it doesn't surprise me and it doesn't surprise me that the law,
person, did you say it was a law professor.
Michael Fedor: Yeah.
law professor Yeah.
Christina: It doesn't surprise me again, because the thing about it is with writers, we think in creative tones.
We think in, in ways of how do I get my point across? again, knowing that you're an English teacher some of my favorite people in the entire world, they're the ones who got me reading and writing and doing all that stuff. You find ways. to make it interesting. And I think that's what the law professor was getting at is that you made it interesting enough for people to stay engaged and walk away with more knowledge. And I think that's just, I mean, that's the mark of a good
storyteller.
Michael Fedor: Thank you so much for that. And
Matt: Oh yeah.
Michael Fedor: gratified like priscilla
castner my 11th grade english teacher She bought the book and read it bartie brownstein my freshman college Political science professor book and read it.
Matt: Nice.
Michael Fedor: for me, it was like, those are
my two worlds, right?
That's my English world and my political science world, just kind of coming together. And both of them love the story. And so that I feel like that's like, ah, that was, that was such a relief to say I could pass the sniff test for an English teacher who wants to read a great story. And I could pass the sniff test for a political science professor who would know
Christina: So
Matt: Yeah.
Christina: us a little bit about how, how do you come from both of those worlds? Like when I read again that you were an English teacher and then you made the switch to politics. How did that happen? Did you have a love of politics prior just had never stepped foot into it?
Tell us about that
Michael Fedor: um, I, I don't know that I ever thought I was going to become an English teacher when high school. I, um, excelled in American government class. I like won the mock trial in my senior year. Got, I was the only attorney that got the murderer off. Every other jury had convicted my senior year, my jury.
Matt: Nice.
Michael Fedor: I was going to have a career in the law.
And so I went to college thinking I'm going to go to law school. I'll become a U. S. senator someday. That'll be my career. I got to college and I studied law. In a legislative behaviors class, I had, we, it was like a mock Senate class. studied a certain Senator who had done nothing but go to law school and then got elected
Matt: Hmm. Hmm.
Michael Fedor: no life experience. And I thought this is not who I want to become. And so sort of volunteering with big brothers and big sisters in New York, in my local community, where I was going to college. And I really had a lot of resonance with working with young people and said, maybe there is a career for me in this and a social foundations of education class.
And I was hooked everything that excited about in terms of, um, media literacy and, you know, socioeconomic differences and in communities because of education structure was like there. So changed my major, went to college to become an English teacher and got super involved in the And, um, At the same time major changes in education law happening And so my first year was about the art of teaching and by my third year It was about standardized test preparation and it changed so much in three years And I was very active in my teacher's union.
I was very active politically And said I can't stay in this classroom and continue to shout at the ocean Well, I'm watching kids who are, you know, 11th grade being told they're not going to pass because they can't pass the standardized test. That's just not the world I want to live in. I've got to change things.
And so I got involved in the AFL CIO and left teaching and got involved in politics and the rest is history as they say. But for me, teaching has always been that common thread of kind of who I am. I've, you know, even when I was
people. I was, know, flip and a marker teaching people like, you know, how to frame a message, how to knock on a door, how to move a voter.
Matt: Hmm.
Michael Fedor: Those teaching skills were So, you know, maybe not the best sentence but I certainly, you know, I taught 10th, 11th and 12th grade literature high school and I taught everything from, you know, the modern novel to the first amendment as dissent literature, looking at original text as, as text.
I thought, as you heard, Bray Bradbury, I taught Shakespeare. So I had that kind of background in terms of literature that just always made me excited about the power of words. And I that came through when I was. Working in politics. I was always very focused on what was our message. What were we saying that inspired people?
Maybe that's where I feel like things are lacking now is kind of losing a little bit of that inspiration that we maybe Had years ago because some of the art of it all has been replaced with the science of This many votes to win this state to
Matt: Mm
Michael Fedor: I feel like we're kind of
missing our moment right now and some of what we talk about in the book is just need to feel inspiration and need to feel hope and without it it becomes just a means to an end for power seekers and that is a really terrible future We don't want
Christina: yeah. So that that actually brings up a really interesting question terms of during this political time. How do you find readers that are interested in reading about? Political thriller. When we're living kind of in terms of political thriller, how do you, how do you
do that?
Michael Fedor: It's not easy um when I committed to publishing and finishing this book the world was way different months ago and You You know, the election that we are having now is not the election I thought we would have at the
Matt: mm-Hmm.
Michael Fedor: And,
um, in part, in some ways, I thought would be the perfect time to release an exciting political story because election 2024 was going to be this boring rematch between two candidates who had already squared off for the presidency four years ago. And I thought people would be looking for a necessary distraction. And so I wrote this fantastical futuristic story of a presidential election in the year 2044. And then pieces of the story have been coming true and it has become this fantastical crazy election where.
Matt: Yeah.
Michael Fedor: of my story have
come to true, come, come to life in the past 12 months.
And so it's been tough. And so when I talk to people about the book, I tend to open with this book is set in the future and it's set in a time where things are perhaps worse than they are now, there's a reason to have hope because there suddenly emerges a candidate who's willing to take on the system and reform it once and for all. But the only way he can do it is by resurrecting a piece of history. The 1912 Bull Moose Party. In order to do it. And usually one of those things, corruption, bull moose party is enough to like, Ooh, there's a hook for those super political dig in. You know, For every one of those, there's people who are like, Oh, I've had enough of politics.
I really don't want to read another political story right now. And I respect it's cool. Um, a, you know, 400 page book about a presidential election. You really got to be excited about something as it relates to the dynamics, the hope of it. Or I say people, Hey, you watch the diplomat, watch the West wing,
Matt: Hmm.
Michael Fedor: candidate, um, all the president's men.
These are the types of things. If you things,
Matt: It's interesting that you say the West Wing as an example because I, I, I heard a little, a little nugget in chapter eight, uh, the Dr. Josiah Bartlett Center, and I was like, oh, , like you had my attention,
especially in that moment. I'm like, oh, this man likes the West Wing.
Michael Fedor: in this story.
Matt: I love that. I love that. I love it a lot, actually.
But I, it's interesting cause I, I found myself as I was, going through the book and I'm, and I'm listening to it on, in the audio book version. And I'm like, there were just so many pieces that popped out that. I had known that I literally did not know the Bull Moose party existed. I had no clue.
Christina: Yeah,
Matt: I'd never heard about it. So there was a lot of those nuggets that you were able to impart in the story, right? Which is right along with everything we've been saying. So I'm just here to tell you mission accomplished. Like I really, really, really enjoyed the story. And I can't wait to continue. I cannot wait to see what comes next.
So
Michael Fedor: That's so hear. And you know, one of my favorite, um, nonfiction is Candace Millard. And, um, she's got three books that I've absolutely them like the, um, biographical, like story type. nonfiction, or she's like telling you about someone's life. It almost reads like a novel, but it's all factually based.
It takes four or five years to write a book because she's doing all this research. And the book that really got it for me was, uh, that really kind of got me back on this path to writing this book was her book, uh, two books, Destiny of the Republic about the 1881 assassination of president garfield which connects back to the curse of tippy canoe which plays a role in my book And her book river of doubt and the reason that book triggered it for me was river of doubts about teddy roosevelt after he loses The 1912 election as the bull moose nominee.
He totally believed he was going to win that election something that happened that Really stole it from him. He kind of loses his sense of direction. He's like, I don't know who I am anymore. I don't know what I want to do. Uh, he thought for sure he was destined to be president still. so he goes on this Amazon safari, this river float to find the source of the Amazon. nearly dies. Um, He almost doesn't come out of that. He does discover a new or river. They ended up calling the Roosevelt river. So like in brazil, there's the roosevelt river
Matt: Oh, wow.
Michael Fedor: just helped to discover it It
was such a fascinating story And so there's a thread between that and jackson piper The main character of what it takes to kill a bull moose who has suffered a national defeat it's kind of like doesn't know who he is anymore Escapes to Colorado thinks he's going to hit reset on his life he's just not fulfilled and what he's doing this this political gene in him is wanting him to still pursue something this opportunity to try to stop a stolen election kind of emerges, falls in his lap he has to decide if he's going to do this and like Teddy Roosevelt's journey, this may kill Jackson.
So he's got to figure out. Is this worth it? Is this truly what he's called to do? Is the nation he loves worth his own sacrifice to try to Risk his life to just you know to run for the presidency and and so for me it's like finding that of history Like the bull moose party or the curse of tippy these other you know, how how many times we've had people who've gotten the most votes and didn't become president
Christina: Yeah.
Michael Fedor: Like how many those little pieces kind of all come together to make?
You What it takes to kill a bull moose. And I think that's what makes it special is it's walking this line between a little bit of historical stuff, filtering in as well as a lot of fantastical science fiction
Matt: Oh yeah. Ziggy.
Michael Fedor: yeah. Ziggy. for
Matt: Ziggy was fun.
Christina: Yeah, I do. I do have to ask, is Ziggy named after,
uh, Quantum Leap
Michael Fedor: Ding, ding, ding. You bet.
Christina: ding,
Matt: Yeah, that's what I thought too.
Yeah. Okay, nice.
Michael Fedor: a kid. And I had a reader who loved the story. Ziggy appears in The Senate Deception, which is my prequel novella to this, to this series. And she's in that as So for the listeners, um, The story takes place in 2044 and AI has completely transformed the world, including the American economy. And millions of jobs have been replaced by AI assistants who can drive cars, answer questions on customer service, make your order at the Wendy's, cook it, take it, take your money, all of that. And for all those bad, there is actually some good. And imagine your phone being your best friend. Like literally an AI assistant living in your phone anytime of day you need to talk to somebody.
This assistant's there. And for Ron Bender, um, operative in the story, he's got this named Ziggy, uh, who is a some 30 something redhead. Blue eyes, happy to see him all the time and anything he needs. She's there to help. And Ziggy for Ron Bender is absolutely a little call back to
Matt: That's fantastic. I, I was thinking too, as I was going through it, I was thinking that. I had people come to mind, right? When I was thinking about the characters and thinking in terms of if this were to become a movie or even a TV show, right? Like what, who would play these parts? And for me, Ron Bender, I see Nick Offerman.
Michael Fedor: Oh,
that's a really good one. That's
Matt: I see him
Christina: yeah.
Michael Fedor: Let's get
Matt: Yeah, right. Ziggy. Ziggy. I actually had in mind Donna from suits.
Michael Fedor: yes. Ooh, That's
Matt: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Michael Fedor: good.
Matt: And then for Piper, I hadn't hadn't landed on just yet, but I had some kind of things going through my head
around that one. So, like,
Michael Fedor: from my Piper.
Matt: sure.
Michael Fedor: is, um, gentleman who played
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Christina: Um,
Matt: Cabell.
Michael Fedor: Yep.
You think
Matt: Okay.
Michael Fedor: with a beard.
my Jackson Piper, kind of a
Christina: Oh
Michael Fedor: muscular, dashing,
and a, and he's a, he's a Boy Scout, like literally he was an Eagle Scout. And so I'm thinking like, who is someone who can play like the politician who is on the straight not
Christina: yeah.
Michael Fedor: you know, changed by working in this really. Insidious field and he
Matt: Oh heck yeah. That's a great one.
Even Chris Evans. I could see.
Michael Fedor: too. Definitely
Matt: Yeah.
Christina: I like Henry better. I like, no. And it's not because I don't like Chris Evans cause he's a great Captain
Matt: Mm-Hmm.
Christina: about Henry that is just okay. I'm going to use the word old fashioned, but I mean it in the context of, People they don't make anymore. think what you're speaking to with Piper in who he is, they don't make that kind of
well they do, but they
don't make it in politics it'll get very far I mean that's that's the problem and part of the the novel's question is much can you make a System ruled by money and corruption and expect good people to want to even run I mean, this is what I hear all the time is why does no one good run and If people worked for five minutes on the inside, like I have, they would know why good people don't run because you have to surrender your entire sense of self participate in these, this process, especially on a national stage like president.
Matt: Mm-Hmm.
Michael Fedor: eventually you may like, um, lose the sense of who you are. I remember the maybe the candidate.
Matt: Yes.
Michael Fedor: that is also kind of in that
story. he he starts off with all these great intentions. But by the middle of the movie, he's starting to lose sense for who he is. He's getting swept up in the rally of he's going to win and he, you know, just starts spitting soundbites endlessly and that's kind
Matt: Mm-Hmm.
Michael Fedor: transforms you.
think you're Heck yeah.
you know, that's the question. Can, can we continue down this path where the good people continue to just sit on the sidelines
Christina: Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: Yep.
Christina: Well, it brings up a lot of like we were talking about before this learning through, know, fiction, the backdoor, the, Can change be made politics? Are you, no spoilers for
book two because it's
Michael Fedor: Yes,
Christina: But do you feel it, it came to a conclusion that is more fiction based or reality based?
Like, do you believe in the hope? Do you
Michael Fedor: It's more fiction based.
Christina: okay.
Michael Fedor: the, for the thriller aspect of it. And let me, let me talk about the craft of that for a moment. So when I was getting to
an ending, reading this book on craft and it was like a bad ending can ruin a great book. Oh,
Matt: Mm-Hmm.
Michael Fedor: you know, There's three
options. You can give the hero everything you can give the hero, nothing that they wanted and can be a very downer ending. Everyone dies the end, or you can give them something, but not everything they were after and kind of. A different path emerges. And this is kind of like, I've heard it said, like, God has three answers to prayers. He says, yes, or she says not right now, or I have a different plan. So those are like the three endings you can choose.
So when I was writing the ending for this book, I had one ending in mind. And like, remember I said, it was 160, 000 words. Couldn't get there. So it took what was the ending. made it book two and I found a way to get this story to a logical ending that made sense so that if you didn't want to read another page in the series, you still felt like the story came to a reasonable conclusion.
Matt: Hmm?
Michael Fedor: that regard, it is,
it is thriller. It's, there's some hopefulness, it's overshadowed by the, by the terribleness that is still this world in which Piper functioning.
Christina: yeah,
Michael Fedor: it's, you know, it's kind of like a new hope, right? The story
Matt: Yes.
Michael Fedor: But
you, you know, darn well that the bad guys are coming back with a vengeance.
Christina: So that begs the question then, know, you, you've kind of got this
duet, book one, book two.
Michael Fedor: Yeah.
Christina: Is it a series? Do we see more of Piper after
book two?
Michael Fedor: Yeah. So. You know, I've heard it say, like, you can write standalone series where people can jump in at any time, kind of like Daniel Silva, right? You can
Matt: Hmm.
Michael Fedor: uh, Alone's
character at any point, and you're gonna just know what's happening. And other these series where you, you know, like, The Hunger Games, you kind of have to know what has happened in the previous book. So, I definitely intend for this to be a series, at least three books will complete the story arc of The Election of 2044. And how it is ultimately resolved.
Matt: Hmm.
Michael Fedor: I'd like for it to do then is
evolve for Jackson Piper, who is the is the story who, you know, will become the president Um, And then maybe get into a series where he's just situations of, you know, you know, Legislation or international intrigue helping, you know, the Senate or something like that. So my intention is to see if I can get this story to a logical conclusion, but the end of book three, and then see if I can go more of a situational series. 'cause there are a lot of characters in my book,
Matt: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Michael Fedor: for good or bad. And uh, also the opportunity, I think, you know, book five in this series could Lawrence, um, kind of meet nack two, um, in what it takes to kill bull, uh, kill bull Moose, who is kind of like, uh, Bree Larson.
Right. She's the
Matt: Okay.
Michael Fedor: Texas.
She's a maverick. Her party too sure about her. Um, She carries a six shooter on her hip to deal with the legislature It's a little, you know, not ordinary, but she is so fun to write and so fun to read that I thought, boy, she she could have her own story at some point.
You know, What's really cool about her is get later in the story, For the longest time I believe that Jackson Piper was the reincarnation in the story of the Teddy Roosevelt of the Bull Moose But the more I wrote Valerie the more I was like, no, she's the Teddy Roosevelt. She is this rough rider romantic this, you know believes in everything and in hope and if anything She's the one who's bringing the Teddy Roosevelt to the Bull Moose party In the series and that was when I came across that realization.
It was
Christina: Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: That's amazing.
Christina: to be able to know one of the things, especially in romance that I do see this happen quite often is that secondary characters tend to kind of over and you kind of know, okay, the next story is about them, but it's interesting to hear you talk about it in such a way that it was like. She stayed secondary, but man, she has potential for the future book. So how, as a writer, how do you determine who gets front of stage? Is it plot? Who's going to get me there? Is it, character that, Oh, I feel really connected to this person and they're going to take me through, walk us
your process there.
Okay.
Michael Fedor: You know, I'm a pants are right. So I'm writing by the seat of my pants. I have an Nice. the story where it's going to
start. What's going to end? And what are some of the major parts in the middle? But I'm sitting down with a blank. Uh, page and I'm writing the chapter and it's just going to come to me as I go and I see where it and, um, there was a commitment early on in the story that Piper is my anchor in this story.
He is the protagonist and I really want him to survive this and see through it. No matter how much I might start to fall in love with the Valerie character or Ziggy or Bender. Somehow Piper has to still emerge in the reader's mind as their favorite. And the hero they're cheering for and so I had to make some choices because there was a temptation right to really like, maybe I may just kill Piper over.
But, um, resisted that temptation. I think it's for the better. And the reason I say that is some of my beta readers and some of my early readers came back and said. They were excited to see there was a strong male character in this story that was redeemable and there was not flawed in the sense that, you know, he wasn't a philanderer, he wasn't a liar, it wasn't something that was just so intrinsically wrong.
His, his faults are more of his like lack of confidence, right? That he truly believes in himself and believes he's the, the answer to this problem and And, um, so, you know, that he, that Jackson isn't portrayed as a buffoon for my readers was exciting to see a strong male character, especially in a science fiction story where there are other, other strong women who could immediately urge in, in, in the book and, and take the book over
but so ultimately, you know, it resisted that temptation to allow anybody to steal the away. And I think that was the right choice. Um, But there's still a lot of characters in this story and, and some of them, I always get too, too wrapped up in writing.
And so their chapters ended up getting on the cutting room floor, maybe for a Thanks for that. And, and um, you know,
Christina: going to point this out because is actually the first time that I've heard anybody say that, that you decided as your main character to be an anchor. And I think that's really important. because it. It makes, it grounds the book. Gives you someone to, bounce the other characters off of, if you will. Rather than just saying my main character, because he is the focus. But as an anchor, it totally changes what you're doing with that character. And, Maybe on a future podcast, we'll have you back to talk more about the anchoring because I think that's actually a really great concept that not lot of writers really know that they should be doing because they think of the main character as, the person, the driving force rather than the anchor to the story.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Fedor: I would say that overall, the process of writing a novel was light years, more complicated than I even began to imagine, even though I was an English teacher and had to my students,
Matt: Yeah,
Michael Fedor: wasn't until I actually down to try to do this first, you know, trying to keep track of multiple storylines, like keeping a Bible of my story about what the character's name was, what color their eyes were so that I wouldn't forget those details later.
Matt: sure.
Michael Fedor: Um, thank God is for
the, you know, the search
Matt: Sure.
Michael Fedor: But I, I
think there's some really unique about my political thriller is that it's character driven. not just driven by the events of, you know, a terrorist attack or the race against time that you really care. And I actually like this writing.
I like writing a little bit more description than maybe some readers will enjoy. Because in a more commercial novel, you want it to move, move, move, move, move. So who cares what color her dress was, or who cares what color her lipstick was. But sometimes I just feel like there's just, I want to help my reader kind of set the scene and paint their imagination.
And that, for me, that matters. It might be symbolic in some way, trying to share some more details about why might look this way or interact with others. So. That for me is the distinction and that kind of draws back to an older style of political thriller like alan drew early like jury Like I mentioned where it's really driven by character
Matt: Well, I have, I have two things. One's a comment. One's a question. The comment is really about, for me, it's admirable when an author can say You know, this is my intention for this character, and this is kind of what I wanted this character to become and sort of embody in this case, the bull moose party.
Right. And then for you to be like, actually, it's not really him. Like, it is starting to become more this other character. And I'm going to let that happen. Right. Just sort of roll with that. And it's still. It still makes the story come to life. It still makes it work really well. Like, but just not being married to those things where you're, where you're like, stubbornly holding onto it.
Like, no, this, I have to like jam it down, Jackson's throat to make sure it fits. Cause I got to, he's gotta be the one just as Tina was saying, I just, I think it's admirable for a, for an author to be able to do that and, and make those decisions. The question I had is really around the awards.
Uh, you've won a number of awards and had been nominated for others. Uh, tell us a little bit about that and kind of what that experience was like. Nice. Yeah.
Michael Fedor: so honored for this book to receive the acclaim and the commendations it has so, um two international firebird book awards one for Um, political thriller and one speculative, um, thriller, speculative fiction. For those who are listening, that means, you know, it's book set in the potential, speculating about potential, you know, shared past future, future, story trade, um, finalist, uh, for political thriller and thriller suspense, which was just amazing. then, uh, Hollywood. Book festival, honorable mention, uh, for political thriller. that contest was about, you know, not only the quality of the writing, but could this story stand up as a Hollywood screenplay or could it be potentially converted? So for me, that was super exciting too, because everyone says, and they read this story, boy, I can see this as a movie, or I can see this as a Netflix show.
And I'm like, yes, me too. Share
Matt: I mean, if it didn't, if it wasn't enough, like we started throwing out actors, right?
Michael Fedor: We're
Matt: We're like, here's the people who are going to play the characters. I mean, I even had in mind, uh, I don't know, I'm blanking on the name, but Reese, I think,
Was her name
Michael Fedor: Reese
Matt: that kind of, yeah, like re okay. It was, that's good.
Ooh, I thought I missed it up. But for Reese, I thought Kathy Bates
Michael Fedor: That's a great
Matt: would be perfect for that role. And then, uh, for Warren, I was thinking Ron Perlman,
Michael Fedor: Ah,
Matt: I think he'd be really,
really kind of wild for that role.
Michael Fedor: I like it a lot.
Matt: So anyway but no, that's really awesome. Congratulations.
Those, those are some
Michael Fedor: Thank you.
Matt: awards.
Michael Fedor: and for me that, you know,
being a debut author and some of this, I'm discovering on my own, some of it I'm doing with the assistance of some other professionals, just to know that I've got a quality product to, at the end of the day, when I was. Working with my editor. I was like, I want this to be a commercially successful book.
I don't just want to write something that's cute and interesting and can sit on a shelf and I can brag about it. I literally want people to want to read this book and tell others to read it too. And focused in that, you know, yes, I definitely believe the dialogue can be better at parts. Yes. I definitely believe I'm going to get better in some of this like pacing, but for a first work, like this is one of those industries where you're just Truly judged by your first work.
I really felt like I've come out with a strong, strong product that could really be a good
Matt: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Christina: as for someone who does work with a lot of first timers this was, you can call yourself a respectable debut for certain this, this was well put together well, I mean, it, you can tell that a lot of. Thought and contemplation, and even just hearing you tonight, talk about your writing and, and the intention behind a lot of what you did, that, and in fact, I started to actually think, and I don't know if you've ever thought about this.
I, I suspect you probably have, but it almost felt like everything in your career life, right? Yeah. Was setting you up to be an author. I mean, it was almost as if like, okay, we've got to get him first interested in
the law.
Matt: Yes.
Michael Fedor: There we go.
Christina: get him to be an English teacher, not just a teacher, an English teacher.
So he knows storytelling, and then we're gonna kind of shift his focus over to politics so we can get that, good political thriller out there. So to me, it just, it kind of makes sense that this was.
Your path,
you
Michael Fedor: Oh,
Christina: to write,
Michael Fedor: thank you. Boy, that feels great.
Matt: Yes.
Michael Fedor: that idea because you know, have done things in my career where really felt like I was making an impact and I love doing it, writing this book for me with all of those fields, 100 percent vibe was absolutely, I'm loving this. This is what I was meant to do at this moment in time, I think people are going to love it too.
And I got to tell you, it was terrifying because
Matt: Mmm.
Michael Fedor: halfway through writing this book,
rewriting this book, I was convinced it was total crap, total garbage manager was going to tell me to just stop because I was embarrassing myself and I should just go back to politics, right. It was in my own head about it. And she came back and said like, no, this has absolute is you know, going to succeed. Let's just do this differently or this differently. And she, the other compliment she gave me was I took editorial feedback better than most authors she'd ever worked with. You know, There was no
Matt: Nice.
Michael Fedor: back and forth.
I trusted her
advice. I work. And, um, She said that was just a joy. And so. That was also 20 years of, you know Recognizing when someone says there's a problem may not always be right about the solution, but they know that something's not working So get in there and figure out what you can fix So
Matt: Mm hmm.
Michael Fedor: be happy if the next 30 years of my
life is writing writing fiction. No problem there. I'd be happy to
Matt: Yeah. Well, it's definitely, you're definitely on the right track for sure. I really enjoy it. Awesome. So just, as we kind of wrap things up, is there anything else that you would really like to promote or just, share?
Michael Fedor: Well first and foremost if you you know Enjoy the conversation today remember that this book is written for folks who are feeling like the political system is not worthy of us at the moment that it Could be something more Independent, independent registration is its highest rate, kind of in our nation's history, meaning most people are turning away from both of the major political parties in the United States and looking for something different. And that's the hardest thing about writing political thriller is if you try to talk to everyone, you will end up speaking to no one. So I do keep in mind that folks who think like me are tend to going to be the folks who will read my. fiction. but I have found some folks who are from the other end of the spectrum who have enjoyed this book, too, and loved it, too, and it spoke to them because there are some themes about reform in the book, about conspiracy in the book that, you know, we can't sustain this path we're on of political violence.
And so if you feel like this season is kind of draining you, um, And you wish there was hope this series may help you find that hope again, kind of like the West wing did for me, uh, when I was, uh, in college and then high school, so give, give my series a shot, give my writing a chance and see if you can't find some of our better angels. this story about where we could go as a nation and then realize that book two tree of liberty is coming out election day November 5th 2024 because as I told you the story is not quite settled, right? I couldn't possibly solve an entire presidential election in just one book. The curse of tippy canoe, which we didn't talk about, but it plays an important role in this story. Leaves things suddenly in chaos at the end of book one. And so going into book two, U. S. Congress has got to get involved in trying to resolve the election and deciding who will win by procedure called the contingent election, uh, which is where. It's an archaic provision, hasn't been used to solve the presidency since 1825, 200 years ago. But what basically happens is when no one wins the electoral college majority, the House will pick the president and the Senate picks the vice president. And the rules by which they do that are largely determined by the leadership of those two bodies. so book two is about two things happening at the same time. One, a power struggle over who is going to be in control of Congress and write those rules and pick the president. The president and vice president. And the second is the tree of Liberty Revolution that is emerging among a popular a popular revolution. Think about the Arab Spring, right? Think about 2015 this mostly non violent movement that Awakens in the middle east and tries to reform these dictatorships into democracies and it's not entirely successful But it is the embodiment of young people coming forward and saying they believe in a system That ought to better represent them and tree of liberty a new character andrew lowell who steps forward is one of these underground newscasters that piper follows says, you know, he's not going to sit by and watch piper be a victim of this stuff any further he's going to go to dc and try to You Get more citizens to dc and to stand up for the congress to do the right thing because in the shadow of the rules in the shadow of a of a of a closed door Congress may come out with a solution like it has so many other times before when the situations have emerged Where maybe the best person doesn't win.
It's a tree of liberty is about people getting involved in their democracy enough To want to see the right outcome for the country. And so it's going to be an exciting way kind of end your election your election day. Um, And I
Christina: you busy.
from the
Michael Fedor: keep you busy
Christina: Bye!
Michael Fedor: I suspect the results of this election in the United States will be very contentious and will take a long time to settle.
And so while you're waiting for the election to settle, you can read a fictional account of an even more tumultuous election, even more scary and feel good about the outcome. Uh, up to 2044 presidential election featuring Jackson Piper, the
Matt: That's awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Michael Fador, thank you so much for joining us and just sharing, sharing your journey with us, sharing your story with us, because it was fantastic. I, I cannot wait to read more. Uh, and I, I just can't wait for the new Part two, right? To come out. So,
Michael Fedor: And, uh, we didn't mention, but, you know, check me out. You can just Google Michael Fedor or go to my website, michaelfedor, F E D O R, books. com. uh, you have a direct from author. Shop there so you can get ebook hardcover paperback and audio book all from my shop I'm wide so you can find me on name them Amazon chirp Kobo Barnes and Noble.
The list goes on and on any one of your favorite sources to get your audio book ebook or print you'll find me there and if you don't find me at your local public library ask. Cause I'm on all the right channels and it's great for new authors to get some shelf space at the local public library. So, say, Hey, there's this great book.
What it takes to kill a bull moose. Can you get it for the local public library? Even if you love the book, ask them to get it on the shelves as
Matt: yeah, absolutely. Well, awesome. Well, thank you again for joining us. Thank you for listening. And, uh, as always we say
Bye.