Author Spotlight: J. Sterling

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In this episode of 'Write Out Loud,' hosts Matt and Christina introduce bestselling romance author Jenn Sterling. Jenn shares her journey of becoming an author, starting from when she was fired from her job and decided to pursue writing. She discusses her experiences with self-publishing, the challenges of marketing, and how she found success with her popular book 'The Perfect Game.'

Jenn also talks about her break from writing, her return with the new 'Sugar Mountain' series, and her approach to balancing the art and business of writing. The conversation touches on the importance of confidence, the evolving landscape of indie publishing, and the personal and professional growth Jenn has experienced throughout her career.

Find more Jenn Sterling
Jenn's Website - Buy copies of her books directly from the source!
Jenn's Instagram
Jenn's Bluesky
Jenn's Twitter/X
Jenn's Facebook
Jenn's TikTok

Chapters

00:45  Introduction & Welcome

01:49  Introducing J. Sterling

03:49  From Being Fired to Best-selling Author

17:35  How Do You Get Seen?

21:10  The Difficulties Faced by Indie Authors

36:59  About "Worth the Fall"

48:29  Wrap Up

 Hey, thanks so much for listening to the podcast. We really hope that you're enjoying every bit of it, but we would love to hear your feedback.  Drop us an email either to Matt@writeoutloudpod.com or christina@bookmatchmaker.com. We would love to hear your thoughts. What's working, what's not working. And what do you want to hear more of? Thanks so much. We really appreciate it.

Transcript

Matt: Welcome to Write Out Loud, a podcast where words come alive, creativity reigns, and every episode is an adventure in storytelling. Whether you're a seasoned scribe or just penning your first tale, this is your weekly audio escape into the world of writing. 

I'm Matt, your guide through the Playground of Prose, where we discuss everything from spine tingling plots to heartwarming narratives. Alongside me is my outstanding co host, the ever lovely, incredible, amazing, snapdastic, scrumptious, and magical Christina.

Christina: Snaptastic, that's a new one.

Matt: It is, it is. I figured you'd kind of like that one.

It's uh, you know, it's how to

Jenn: have to say this every single time? Do you record this by itself every single time? You need to like, you need to just do it once and have it. Press a button.

Christina: it,

Matt: Oh, it's different every time.

Jenn: Every

Matt: Every time. Yeah.

Jenn: fantastic, clever, and so creative. I love it.

Christina: yes.

Matt: So grab your favorite writing snack, settle in, and let's embark on this delightful journey together. Welcome to Write Out Loud, where your voice is the story we're telling. I'd really like to start off today by welcoming a very, very special guest to the podcast. And this is author Jenn Sterling. Jenn is a Southern California native who grew up working in the famed Hollywood entertainment industry.

And she has multiple New York Times and USA Today bestselling romance novels that have been translated into several languages and have sold over a million copies worldwide. We are extremely excited to have you here, Jenn. Thanks for joining us. Absolutely.

Jenn: me, you guys. I'm so happy to be here.

Christina: welcome.

Jenn: Welcome, welcome.

Matt: We're always tickled to have guests drop by, you know,

Jenn: I hope I get to be scrumptious.

Matt: I think everybody's scrumptious. It's just, just how it goes. Well, awesome. Jenn, tell us a little bit about yourself, your writing journey, and maybe what you're most known for.

Jenn: Sure. Uh, so my name is Jenn Sterling. I write under j. sterling. I write all romance books. I have like sports romance, contemporary romance. I have this really cool bundle that's the fun for the holidays. It's a book a month for the whole year, which I just am so proud of because

Matt: Nice.

Jenn: much fun. I, I, knew that I wanted to write. I had no idea that I wanted to write fiction books at all. I knew that I had one story in me that I wanted to tell. I got fired from my job, went out and bought a laptop the next day and started writing that book and just thought like, okay, well, I'm just going to write this one book and then like, that'll be it.

And that was very much not it. So that one book definitely opened up a creative floodgate that I Really did not know was there and I am obsessed and love writing romance books. It makes me so happy and I would say that I am best known for The Perfect Game, which is a baseball romance, sports romance, new adult romance that is by far like my best selling series.

Christina: How do you get from, you know, being fired? How do you pick yourself up and go, I'm going to go for this? I mean, takes a lot of guts.

Jenn: I would say I mean, I've been so beaten down by that point. Like, it was such a horrible working environment that you know, while being fired was so awful because I've never been fired in my life. And I, I also just couldn't believe they weren't just moving me into a different department. Do you know what I mean?

Like, oh, hey, this isn't going to work here. Let's at least put Jenn. Over here because she's an asset to this company, but apparently I wasn't so getting fired. I was like, all right, well, what, what are the three things I really like to do? Like, okay, I really want to write this one book. potentially would like to open up a bakery making cupcakes. Right. And I also love, I love photography and I love taking pictures. So I, I literally went back and created three separate business websites it was photography. Cupcakes and then writing and I built them all at the same time and I started doing all three hands down the cupcakes were the hottest best most and I was miserable

Christina: Oh.

Jenn: like, God, these are so time consuming. I have to make them so, it just was so much pressure. The photography was the second busiest. And I also was like, wow, I really don't like this either. Like this is not fun. I just loved writing once I started doing it. And of course it was the thing that was not making me any money. It was funny doing those three things kind of. Really quickly, do you figure out what you're passionate about and what you just enjoy kind of as a hobby? 

Christina: So 

Jenn: there's yeah, I just I just went for it. I never took a break like I never stopped once getting fired Do you know what? I

Matt: Yeah.

Jenn: next

Christina: look for the next job. You decided, I'm going to create it.

Jenn: and and I

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: going on interviews But I'll tell you that like it felt wrong like I knew in my gut I'm not supposed to be doing this anymore but You know, your brain is like, Hello, you need money. You need an income.

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: still applying for jobs and going on interviews. But the whole time I'm like, please don't, please don't offer me this position.

Like, cause I'll have to take it.

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: I just, I knew I didn't want to. So it's just crazy how things kind of work out like that.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: At what point did you say to yourself, okay, I don't like bakery even though I'm making a lot of, money at this and I really want to go for the, so at what point do you let go? Of the bakery of the photography.

Jenn: I would say pretty early on within like months, was it so obvious to me that I was just like, wow, I really, I really don't want to, I don't want to do this. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not finding joy in doing this. I really like the writing and I, you know what, it probably was when I had a second idea for a book. once I realized like, Oh my gosh, Like I have another idea of a story I want to write. I think that's when probably everything fell into play where I was like, this is what I want to pursue. Cause I never knew I had a book two in me.

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: So I would say it was that

Christina: at that point you're thinking, okay, so this is a series after you write the first book, you're like, wait a minute.

Jenn: not a series. Nope.

Christina: standalones,

Jenn: a second book idea.

Matt: Nice. Okay.

Jenn: Yeah. Just another story.

Christina: Were you one of those people that when, growing up, first of all, were you a reader or second of all, did you ever think like I like creating stories that are just, you just got that one idea. And I thought going to go for the one.

Jenn: Yeah. I mean, I was not a big reader. Like as a kid. I definitely like went through a phase where I read a bunch of Nora Roberts books. Right. And I just really enjoyed them. And then I, and then I didn't read for a long time. I think it's probably because I was like a younger single mom. So I probably, like, just was not spending I was spending my, uh, free time in the AOL chat rooms. You know, I wasn't I wasn't reading. But I when but I just talked about this the other day too, was that I was asking people what started them on their reading journey or like what book or author do they remember reading? And, and I remember as an adult, like it was twilight, twilight series got me, but, but it didn't, I didn't want to read anything else after that.

I just wanted to read that series.

Matt: Hmm?

Jenn: So that was very interesting. Like that didn't make me want to be like, Oh my gosh, what can I read next? didn't care. What would, I just wanted to read that. So I don't know why I'm weird and broken in that way. But

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: to start writing, I, I mean, obviously now, and starting then I I read basically nothing but indie authors. It's so rare that I will ever read a traditionally published author. I just don't. And I really enjoy indie books. I think they're very underrated and

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: Yeah. I was going

Why do you think that is? Is it because they're

Jenn: Oh, Because they're self published, they're not as in your face. I mean, obviously now when I go into my Target, every single book in there is somebody I know. that's like really exciting, but that's so new,

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: So typically, if you're walking into a store, the books that are on the shelves are, are not self published authors. They're, they're just not. So I think that like inaccessibility and how you would have to be looking for a self published author to get into that world. But it's like, I think once. Somebody read a indie author, even if they didn't know they were doing it, I feel like the next books that would be recommended would be like, another indie author, and another indie author, and another indie author.

I mean, if you look at the Amazon top 100, 95 of top 100 are Kindle Unlimited books, and they're, and they're mostly indie self published authors, which is crazy.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt: did you, when you first started, I mean, you were self-published. I'm taking it. And when did you, you had mentioned before we started recording that you had been in Kindle Unlimited at one point. Like how did that evolution kind of come about?

Jenn: Well, when I started writing, there was no Kindle Unlimited,

Matt: Hmm.

Jenn: I definitely tried to get an agent and tried to traditionally publish, because I, I was like, this is what you have to do, right? There is like, at that time as well, we're talking 20, 2009, 2010, uh, self publishing was like, Oh, you only do this if you fail, right?

Matt: Hmm

Jenn: a failure, you're a loser. If you have to self publish and nobody will pick up your book. And I remember just being like, Oh my gosh, if I get one more email rejection, that's it. I'll just be a failure and I'll just self publish.

Matt: mm-Hmm.

Jenn: got that rejection. I was like, well, I guess I'm self publishing. And I like, I, I mean, I love it. I love self publishing. I love everything about it. And, there was no Kindle Unlimited. And when

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: Kindle Unlimited program eventually introduced, like, I was not gonna be in it because I was selling everywhere. I think it was once I signed a deal with Amazon publishing, they had bought the perfect game

Christina: Hmm.

Jenn: bought the series and they put the book in KU.

And then I was like, well, I can't have like one series in Kindle unlimited and none of my other books are in the program. So I moved everything over for, a certain amount of time. And then I just, don't, I don't want to do that anymore.

Matt: Gotcha. Okay.

Jenn: Yeah,

Christina: So was it, was it the Kindle Unlimited that really caught traction with your sales and things? I know. Okay. Tell us about the journey to becoming a

Jenn: The, perfect game 100 percent word of mouth. There was no Kindle Unlimited. It came out in 2012. It was just during a time when uh, self published authors were basically on Facebook all day long to reader groups, talking to people like talking to our readers and that just word of mouth blew up. The perfect game into something I could have never imagined. selling 100, 000 copies in five weeks was like some, I was like, this is crazy. I hit the USA today bestseller list. I didn't even know someone had to tell me because I just was like, I didn't, it didn't even occur to me.

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: I had never, I just never, I didn't think about it. It was just this magic ride that actually when Amazon. the books and I pulled them wide, uh, they put like a hard stop to that, to that train that was really, really taking off.

Matt: Hmm mm-Hmm.

Christina: Oh, that's

Jenn: was gaining more and more momentum and it like,

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: it obviously on all the other retailers because the book was gone and yeah, they, I mean, they played a role in selling, you know, a couple hundred, 300, 000 more copies of the book, but I feel like had they not come along and I would have left it where it was, it would have continued to do that.

Matt: Hmm.

Jenn: So it was hard. I mean, it's. It's just hard to say.

Christina: So do you think that you would have, like, the opportunity to go back. Would you do it differently going in?

Jenn: Yeah, I totally wouldn't have sold it to, uh, to Amazon. Is

Christina: Hey,

Jenn: like a horrible thing to say? But here's the thing. I asked for, I asked for my rights back and I own those books again.

Matt: Hmm.

Jenn: that was, that was a big, that was a big deal to me because I feel that people think once you've sold your books somewhere you can never access them again. And, and to be like, Really to be fair, Amazon was like, we just want you to be happy. And I said, I'm really not, I just want you to give me my books back because at that point they'd owned them for so long and they were so buried in their catalog

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: romance that they were never promoting them anymore.

They were just, you know, they were just sitting there and I was like, I still love these books. Like,

Matt: Yeah.

Jenn: love this story. Can I please have it back? And they were like, yeah, which

Matt: Nice.

Jenn: I'm like, that's amazing. That's amazing. Thank you.

Matt: Yeah. That's great.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: So do you think for you part of the indie appeal is the control? You have all of the,

Jenn: A hundred percent.

Christina: all of the

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: So,

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: Do you think that is it, it's kind of like half, half of, half of a dozen, you know, six of one, half of a dozen of another. Do you think Amazon is too flooded with books to allow anyone to be successful anymore? Do you understand what I'm saying?

Jenn: totally do. But, but I will tell you that like, it's really interesting that you asked that because I have seen a lot of authors kind of saying, giving that sentiment of, oh, it's, it's oversaturated. The market is too crowded. And I just want to be like, Hey, we've literally been saying the exact same thing for 10 years. Like, like that, that sentiment has not changed,

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: Like we have been saying once KU came in, it changed everything. Everything. And you have these authors that started right away in Ken Unlimited, and now they're, they're called like the KU darlings. And so everything that they do goes crazy because they've built this really loyal KU audience where I messed up is going KU and wide and KU and wide and KU and wide.

And so you don't build this cohesive, audience that is always expecting stuff from you. But no, I mean, yes, it is. Of course an oversaturated market. It is, there are so many books that get released. In a day, I mean, it's not an, the thing that I always say is like, Oh, it's not enough to write a book if people don't know it exists,

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: so hard.

How do you reach these people? I would say that the advertising market has gotten very competitive and really oversaturated and has turned it into something that is so unaffordable and unattainable for most people.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: yeah. 

Jenn: That's where I think is the issue, honestly.

Christina: there, I, I had a client once who was working with a marketing company that managed the Amazon ads. And it was interesting because she. Had worked with you know, a lot of, uh, small press publishers, but she hadn't worked with Indy and a lot of romance. And so she was trying all different sorts of things. But each time she'd hit on what worked, it was always the most expensive option.

Jenn: Yes, a

Matt: mm-Hmm.

Jenn: percent.

Christina: it,

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: the prices up so

Jenn: Yep.

Christina: the super selling authors can afford, you know, to do that. So it's you come back and you go, so what is it? What is the answer? What is the answer to, how do people see it be seen? You know, that's probably the number one thing. If you can get visible,

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: if you could be in front of audiences. know, will they give you a shot? 

Jenn: Feel like that's the age old question always is trying to be seen. I mean, and since I've been around for so long, you know, I was around when Facebook really like, Hey, we want to be the home for every small business. If you're a small business, create your business page with us. Cause we'll put you directly in front of all of your,

Christina: Audience.

Jenn: yes, all of your clients. Right?

Christina: hmm.

Jenn: So we do this, we cultivate this, you build this audience of 70, 000 followers. You are talking directly to them. And then literally Overnight, Facebook changes the algorithm and says, can't reach your people anymore unless you pay to boost your post.

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: mean, we really literally went from, if I would say, Hey, I have a new book release and it would go to all 50, 000 people following me. That's a, that's a huge deal for me on Facebook. Just not paying for an ad. Actually going to the people who are following me because they want to hear what I say To you changing it overnight and now I would do a post and it would literally say seen by 14 people

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: and I mean we were like, what do you mean seen by 14 people like I have 50 000 followers How are only yesterday?

49, 000 of them saw this post, right? And today it's only 15. So you have these, these businesses that, that really changed things on us and made it, it just made it impossible, like made it impossible.

Christina: that you should mention Facebook just recently within the last couple of weeks someone posted that they mathematically figured out the percentage as they scrolled and it was like the largest percent were suggested like you might like suggested posts. And it was like

Jenn: You might like,

Christina: percent of all the

Jenn: wow.

Christina: see on Facebook were like suggested posts. And

Jenn: Wow.

Christina: you know, uh, 15 percent were sponsored posts. So

Jenn: ads. Yeah,

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: like 3 percent

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Christina: that you actually are friends with or follow.

Jenn: you're followed.

Christina: So I

Jenn: That's awful.

Christina: I mean that it is, but that's,

Jenn: That also, that also makes me so mad because I remember when they changed all that. I remember when they changed the news feed and

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: who is this? Like, I actually want to see the people I follow. I follow them for a reason. Like, don't tell me what you think I want to see.

Don't think for

Matt: Yes.

Jenn: I don't like that. And that's exactly what they're doing. Hmm.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: And,

Jenn: And it's

Christina: and

Jenn: infuriating.

Christina: Instagram did the same thing. The place that I'm liking right

Jenn: We're owned by the same person.

Christina: yeah. But threads is also and that's what I was going to say. I

Jenn: I, yeah.

Christina: right now because

Jenn: For now.

Christina: now.

Jenn: For now.

Christina: like exactly what you were just saying is that as soon as they change the algorithm.

Jenn: They're gonna ruin it.

Christina: gonna ruin it. So yeah, yeah

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: speaking of threads I follow you on threads and I think it was a couple weeks ago That I saw this post and I wrote it down You said no one talks about how hard it is when you were a best selling indie author had readers clamoring for For your next release, and then it all just stops. and you're wondering now what the F, to do to get it back, what did you do wrong, what the fuck happened. What, what do you think did happen? I mean, we talked a little bit about it before, that the whole

Jenn: Yeah,

Christina: Amazon, you know, buying you, and

Jenn: Changes,

Christina: you,

Jenn: of my control are, are definitely a factor. I will say that, I mean, I've had people say to me, like, I am a huge fan of yours, Jenn. I didn't even know you've written anything since The Perfect Game.

Matt: Mm.

Jenn: I'm like, how? Like, that book was 12 years old. I've, I've written 30 more books since then. It's just like, how, so, so what am I doing wrong that's not reaching these people? How are they not seeing this? How are they missing this? And I mean, I really, I would like to say like, I didn't do anything wrong except for I didn't play the game. I didn't kill myself to write eight books a year

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: because the way that I believe is very much, I want to be doing this for a very long time. So I don't believe in setting myself up for something that isn't sustainable

Christina: right,

Jenn: me.

Matt: Mm mm. Mm.

Jenn: other people are doing. I don't write to market. In a sense, right? Like I won't write something I don't want to tell

Matt: Mm. Yeah. Mm

Jenn: with the artist and the business side.

The artist for me always wins. Well, let me tell you those girls that are making millions of dollars, the business side wins for them. And I just don't have, I just don't have that in me. I need to marry the two and I struggle with that.

Christina: Yeah,

Jenn: But I just, I won't do the certain things that maybe, you know, if you're in KU, they want you to be putting out a book every 90 days or every whatever, at least write eight books a year.

And I'm like, I can maybe do that one time and then never again, like that's not sustainable. that setting me up for anything that's like not failure past that? Like it just, it's so, it's so hard figuring out what works for you. And for me, it's just, I just want to be consistent. I'm a three book a year writer.

That's what it is. I'm going to release three books a year. Why isn't that enough?

Christina: yeah.

Matt: That's a lot.

Jenn: three books a year enough

Matt: That's a lot.

Christina: So

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: I actually have similar thoughts. I mean, has probably heard this ad nauseum, but my feelings are that's not sustainable. I've seen this before on the traditional side. Inevitably, they hit the best selling status. Now this is pre indy. So

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: about that. This is pre

Jenn: Okay.

Christina: pre self published, when vanity presses were self published and nobody stepped into those. But back in the day, you know, once they hit the bestseller list, they continued to hit the bestseller list because the New York Times was like, Hey, this author hit it last time. Let's check with the sales. Oh, it looks like they're going to hit it this time. You're automatically in. but what I started to notice. this flow of these bestselling authors stayed the same and I'm not talking about writing the same books, but their style of writing, their, what they were like topics they were tackling all stayed the same, but me as a human being was growing and I didn't like those books anymore.

Jenn: You outgrew him.

Christina: outgrew them.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: have always said, best marketing tool is writing a damn good book because again, referencing traditional publishing pre indie, but I do feel I am hearing the same thing from indie authors. really your backlist that sustains you while you write those new books and are finding the new audience, you

Jenn: Right.

Christina: you know again traditional publishing back in the day You'd get your royalty checks that's what got you through to the next book That's what you

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: for the cover pays for the marketing pays for the you know, whatever But the problem is like when I hear you talk about these writers that are authors that are buying ads You Spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars get that return.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: me, that is not sustainable because where is the art? Where is the craft in the story? And I wonder if, if someone would keep track of those artists, of those authors, do they stay where they are simply by paying, like you say, pay to play. 

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: don't know if that's the

Jenn: I mean, I feel like that the handful of people that I'm thinking about off the top of my head that I, that I know for a fact are doing this, have really built an audience that loves their books regardless of what it is. And they just don't,

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: don't care. Like it doesn't have to be this. It can be a completely forgettable story and they don't care, but all of them also are in KU. So it's also very much for a reader like, Oh, I don't care if I didn't love this book. Cause I didn't quote unquote pay for it. There's no risk.

Christina: There's no risk. Yeah.

Jenn: There's no risk if you're

Christina: Yeah. So, I

Jenn: But I mean, also, how could you care if you're spending a million dollars a year and you're making five, do you know what I mean? Like, I'd be like, I don't care.

I'll spend a million dollars all day long to profit five.

Matt: Mm mm.

Jenn: joking? I'll do that till that stops working. Like,

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: but the

Matt: Yep.

Jenn: of people don't have, don't have that. The majority of people in it. And it's so weird for me to say, because. I know the majority of people don't have that kind of money, but I'm like, but everyone I know, know, is spending that money!

Christina: yeah, yeah,

Jenn: like, there's total conflict in me. I'm like, all of my, like, friends are actually spending this money,

Christina: yeah, yeah,

Jenn: But that's not reality. Like,

Matt: mm. Mm

Jenn: be like such a small percentage of people who are writing, and it I have to re I also have to remind myself of that.

Christina: But eventually, see, I, again, I keep coming back to the fact that it's not sustainable And I'm not saying five years. You know, perhaps 10, but I think in long term, like you said, you said you are trying to build a career that you can take into and beyond retirement.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: forever. I am just not sure what they're doing is sustainable because eventually the reader going to take note if these books aren't that great. You know, they're

Jenn: Right.

Christina: the next person

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: you

Jenn: But and but maybe by then they have so much money in the bank, they don't care.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: mm. Mm mm. Yeah.

Jenn: I know. I'm just not that I'm not that way.

Christina: yeah, that's me too, because I would rather see, people that are really building quality stories. And, like, I want to follow someone long term and read them until, I started in the industry when it was like the, the golden age of the 90s in romance where you had all the Js, Julie Garwood, Judith McNaught. Oh God,

Jenn: I'm like, I didn't read it. And I don't even know who these people are. You guys. I didn't read. I really, I really was not a reader.

Christina: Yeah. And, eventually they did a, they either stopped writing because they aged out or, a lot of them have sadly passed away. Or they just write something different, 

Jenn: Yeah,

Christina: thinking Jane Anne Krentz. I think she almost strictly does, know, not the contemporary romances anymore, but like the mysteries.

And then I think she still does her Amanda Quick

Jenn: that's cool. Yeah.

Christina: But yeah, so I think. know, again, thinking, I'm always thinking longterm because

Jenn: Yeah. So am I

Christina: I have never met an author. Who didn't say that they wanted to make this their career

Jenn: forever. Yeah. How can you not?

Christina: want to keep telling my stories,

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: the question always becomes, how do you get to that point where a, you can either drop, the day job it can sustain you after retirement or, it can pay the bills or, whatever it is, that the goal is, it's just, how do you get seen?

Jenn: Do you feel like the majority of newer authors that you've interacted with? Cause I don't always interact with a lot of newer authors, but like people that you know, don't you feel like when they're just starting out there, they're very much like focused on the art and the storytelling and in the business as a secondary, or do they come at it from No, I want to make the money.

What do I need? What do I need to write to make the money?

Christina: mm hmm. Okay, so, I firmly believe I only attract the people that want to work with the craft and the storytelling, because that's who I am.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: interact and talk, it is about how can you improve your writing, how can you be more confident. I think confidence is the one thing that this industry does not talk enough about.

Jenn: Yeah. I would say we don't talk about it at all. Honestly.

Christina: we don't

Jenn: feel like I've never even thought about it.

Christina: well,

Matt: Hmm. Hmm. Ha ha ha ha.

Christina: in my story, but I'm scared to. It won't sell. It won't.

Jenn: I understand that. I understand.

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: Yeah. There's a theater. Of course.

Christina: think about some of my favorite writers, which I know that you're friends with some of them. Taryn Fisher, I talk about her a lot on this podcast because she is to

Jenn: Oh, I'm very good friends with Taryn.

Christina: she is magic and the magic.

Jenn: She's incredible.

Christina: only in the stories, it's in her confidence to tell them like she doesn't give an F about

Jenn: also the stuff that she's writing, like the stuff that she's, like, that's how her brain thinks, like, that's how she is. So it's very much, I read some of her stuff and I'm like, God, I could never write this because I would never even think about this. I don't think like that. Taryn thinks in crazy terms so she can write the crazy.

Christina: Right. But I think she also like knows herself enough. And this is what I'm talking about with the confidence. Like she knows I'm a one book a year person. I take my time in writing. Like I think even Colleen Hoover said, we're so opposite writing. That, like, Taryn takes every sentence and, like,

Jenn: Yeah,

Christina: to perfection before, moving on.

Jenn: yes.

Christina: now, while I'm not suggesting anyone do that, because, like you said, Taryn thinks the way she thinks. But I think there's a lot to be said for someone who takes their time, knows that they don't, write perfectly. Eight books a year, like you said. You write three. You are

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: three.

You tell a good story with three. That's what you get, I think the more confident, like, I almost wonder if Taryn Fisher, yes, like I said, I respect the writing, love her stuff, there's also a part of me that says, it's the energy she puts out to her readers. Like, this is who I am, these are my stories, you're welcome to read them or not. And she walks on, you know, she's not obsessed over, did I write the right story? Have I spent enough money? I'm going to assume she's not

Jenn: Oh, yeah, no, not at all.

Christina: millions of dollars on ads,

Jenn: I think, I think too, for a lot of authors, and this just becomes something that like just takes a little bit of time and like writing a little bit more stories, is getting comfortable with for me, I'm like, hey. I know that the majority of you guys want a, want a really sexy book, a really spicy, smutty book.

Well, you're not going to get that from me because it's not how I write. Like, I'm a light spice kind of girl. Like, you're going to get a little bit of spice, but you're going to get a lot of heart. In my books. I'm an emotional storyteller. there is always an open door sex scene in my, in my books, but you're never going, it's, it's, you're never going to walk away from my book being so riled up that you can't wait to attack your man later.

Like, it's just not the way I write. I also don't want to. I just am like, no, this is, this is the kind of storyteller I am. This is how I am. I tell a story. I get very invested in the characters I want to tell. I write what I know. I really like to feel like I write a realistic romance. And I, I am comfortable writing, producing three books a year. And that's what, and that's what you're going to get. And if you, you know, maybe if I'm on a roll, you might get four, but Let's let's that's gonna be a rarity.

Matt: Hmm. Hmm.

Jenn: knowing the kind of writer I am how I'm gonna produce how often I'm gonna produce and then be like, how do I make this work for me?

Matt: Hmm. Hmm.

Jenn: Sustain my career. How do I make a living off of this?

Christina: There was a friend of mine who has a business that's not even close to publishing. It's, it's a different business entirely, but she always talks about how if you are you in your business, so if we translate that, that to writing, if you are you in your writing unapologetically. Confidently that your readers will chase you in her words.

It was the money chases you You are

Jenn: Right?

Christina: the money and I am just like you I'm like I only see people who are chasing the money and getting the money

Jenn: I know

Christina: and

Jenn: I know She is

Christina: she's right. I like I of the authors that I've worked with throughout my career, you know, almost 30 years now, every single one of them that became a success all had that same sort of component that Taryn Fisher has, confidence that, know, almost like I don't care if the money is chasing me, I'm chasing my art. And I just, yeah. And I just,

Jenn: very very artist oriented

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: sure,

Matt: Hmm.

Jenn: also is very aware of what she's doing because she's very smart.

Christina: Yeah,

Jenn: she also is very purposeful in the image she puts out and what she does. I mean, she knows what she's doing.

Matt: Yeah.

Jenn: Not, not that she is not like that, but she knows what she's doing.

Matt: So, just thinking about kind of the newest stuff that you've released here, tell us a little bit about Worth the Fall and let's dive into that.

Jenn: Yeah, so, I, I, for the first time ever last year, didn't write for 10 months. I was so burnt out romance and I gave myself a genuine break. I was just like, I am I couldn't even read a romance book. I would try and read it. And I was like, uh, these are awful. They're all so stupid. Everything I've ever written is so dumb. Everything everyone writes is so dumb. I can't read it. Right. I just hated

Matt: Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Jenn: burnt out and I was like, I'm not going to do anything. I'm just going to, I'm just going to watch movies and TV shows for the next year. I really thought I wasn't, and I thought I was really broken. That I wasn't going to ever be able to write another romance book again.

So I was like, gosh, what other genre am I going to write? Because it wasn't that I was never going to write again. It's just, I wasn't going to write romance anymore. So like, what was I going to write? And then literally night. just had an idea of, oh my god, I have these three brothers in my head, it's a small town romance, like to write a small town romance series. And I was like, maybe I should read one first, because I had no idea anything about what small town romance entailed, other than it just sounded so joyful. Like, it just sounded like, oh, this, this just sounds so sweet and so happy. Let me read a couple of small town romances and see why people are, like, jonesing for them.

What

Matt: Hmm. Ha

Jenn: them? And I read them and I felt like I really got a handle on Why they were such great sellers right now, and why readers did love them. And it gave me the, like, Oh my gosh, these books don't have to be over the top drama. There doesn't have to be these, you know, this drama for the sake of adding page reads.

It's just, they're typically a little bit older couple, so they're a little bit more mature in their relationship. And a lot of times the drama comes from an outside source instead of within their, you know, The two that I read were

Matt: ha

Jenn: that. So that's kind of what gave me the foundation for writing. And I just, I don't know, it just all came together.

I got really, really excited. It's so worth the fall is the first book that's out. It's the first time I've ever written a single dad. It's the only, it's the second. single parent that I've ever written, which is crazy because I was a single mom forever.

Matt: Hmm.

Jenn: But that's probably why I didn't write it. So it was my first small town romance, first single dad, a workplace romance, a really strong female character who a very important story for me to tell.

It was very personal to me in terms of, like, her getting divorced and leaving a marriage, not because anything was wrong, but because she wasn't happy. And I can really, really relate to that.

Matt: Hmm.

Jenn: I felt like I just had a, uh, a few, like, important just kind of messages to, to put in the book, but That the basic basis of it would just be it made you happy to read it

Matt: Hmm. You

Jenn: and that you can't wait for the next Brothers books when you get to the end. Like, that's what I hope I did.

Matt: Yeah.

Jenn: I really, be honest, it's like the best first line I've ever written in my life, and I feel like the best first chapter I have ever crafted.

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: Ever.

Christina: yep, yep,

Jenn: And

Christina: the reason I'm saying yep, yep, yep is because I read it and that's exactly what I was thinking as I those first pages was like, Oh my God.

Jenn: never written anything like that.

Christina: and it

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: Emotionally gripping. And of course, then, uh, of course, as I didn't know actually going in that you had made it a trilogy.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: so I'm like, Oh, the brothers, of course, they're going to get stories. I know it, you

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: then I think just a few days later you had written that you completed, the final book. So,

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: And I was, I was thinking to myself, like, Yes, small town romance. You've got it. You've got that. I always call him like the Hallmark style small. Yeah.

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: And

Jenn: really my only inspiration. I didn't grow up in a small town.

Christina: yeah, yeah. well I did a very small town but I don't know any guys like these guys. know

Jenn: mean, none of us do.

Christina: yeah. But it was so funny because it's like, okay, like, I want to live in Patrick's house

Jenn: Right,

Christina: yeah you know, and I, I, I'm blanking on his name right now.

The, the brother that was the hockey player. I want to call him.

Jenn: Matthew?

Christina: I was going to call him Mark. So there we

Jenn: Sure.

Matt: Name.

Christina: yeah. And like, I need to know his story. Like, I

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: thing. So, yeah, I mean, it was, and it's interesting to hear you said it so different from your other books because I was actually thinking, wow, how did you, so I'm glad that Matt asked that question because I didn't realize that you hadn't written for 10 months.

So,

Jenn: No, I just, I really, yeah, I just didn't. And then when I had this idea, I mean, it was it, and I was so inspired and so, like, excited, and now, I'm back in it, and I can read romance again. And so, it's, it's, It's just, really proud of those books, and it's the first time I feel like, it's not the first series I've written, but I was very, very, I've grown in my writing, so I was very intentional with my writing, and I feel like, oh, this is what maturing as a writer looks like, it's being intentional with the seeds you're planting to the

Matt: Hmm

Jenn: where by the time you get, like, by the time you've read the third chapter, all three books that are coming, I've said, I mean, probably the first chapter, you know, Thomas's story, you meet his love interest in chapter two, but, you know, Patrick, the middle brother and his high school sweetheart.

And then, you know, Matthew is obsessed with the bartender, Bella. I mean, like you just, I've set up. All three. So your, your brain is already like, Oh, I know whose stories are coming next. You just don't know what's going to happen. But so that, I mean, that was really fun. It was really fun to like, that intentionally, write that purposefully. I just, I think that's, I think that's like the best book I've ever written.

Christina: Do you think then, uh, do you feel like your mojo is back?

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: okay.

Jenn: Yeah, no, I feel, I feel so good. I'm so excited. I mean, I have like, I'm, I've already started the next series that I'm writing. So, just the fact of having ideas of what you're gonna write is what I typically struggle with because,

Matt: hmm.

Jenn: because I'm not a write to market kind of girl. Because I'm not a Let me search out the tropes and what's trending and let me write that and, and I would also never do that because I don't write fast enough to write to trends,

Christina: Right.

Jenn: I would be like, I'm writing the alien romance and I'd get it like 10 years too late. I mean, I just would like, I, I just am not.

Christina: Yeah.

Jenn: I just am not, like, I don't write that, like, it takes me months to write a book, people!

Christina: and I, I,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: yeah, that's one of the things that I tell, workshops. Anybody who takes my workshops have heard me say this over and over again. Don't ever write to Trent because you're always going to be chasing it. Just

Jenn: chasing a trend. Yeah, instead of, instead of accidentally setting one. Which is,

Christina: Just

Jenn: kind of what I feel I did with The Perfect Game. I mean, obviously, no, I did not set the trend.

Christina: Well,

Jenn: I, let me take that back. I, I did, I'm not, I don't want to take credit for, like, that's not what I mean. But, like, at the time that I wrote Baseball Romance, There was not like sports, like a lot of sports romance out there.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: No, you're, you're absolutely correct. The only one who is doing sports romance again, from my traditional publishing days is Susan Elizabeth Phillips and she was doing football. She didn't do the only other one that I'm aware of was Elle kennedy. But she

Jenn: And Elle came after and Elle came after me. That was like her hockey book was two years after the perfect game, which I always know because. Elle and I will have, like, the same foreign publisher, and the readers will be like, the perfect game is a knock off of Elle Kennedy's The Deal.

And I'm like, I wrote it

Christina: first, yes,

Jenn: Like, I wrote it first! They hate my book, and they love Elle I love Kennedy's books, so let me be very clear about that. I absolutely love her writing. I love her new adult, like, hockey romances. I think they're so great, but it is very funny. The, the foreign market will hate my book, but love Elle's book.

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: I have a tough character in The Perfect Game. You either love or you hate him. That's a, that's a tough story.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: yeah. Well, you know,

you know, for it being You said it was your first book, correct?

Jenn: was, that was my third book.

Christina: third book. Okay.

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: maybe it doesn't quite follow this. Sylvia Day said once that you've actually got to write three books before you're ready to publish a book. that's how long it takes

Jenn: Oh,

Christina: learn to

Jenn: I will.

Christina: Yeah,

Jenn: I will say yeah, my first, like my first book is written horribly.

Christina: yeah,

Jenn: great story that I did no justice at all whatsoever.

Christina: yeah.

Jenn: It's so bad,

Christina: Well, you,

Jenn: but I love it. I

Christina: book.

Jenn: it.

Christina: It's your

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: That's, you know, you kind

Jenn: It's still, you know what, the right audience finds it, and it really resonates with them, because it's just

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: story, so, I mean, I love that. Uh, it just, it is what it is, I mean, it's a debut novel, and it

Matt: Okay.

Christina: know, so Patrick's story comes out next.

Jenn: Yeah, his book two in Sugar Mountain series, his book will be out January 24th, and Matthew's book will be out March, I always get, I keep getting the date wrong, it's like the 18th, maybe. Yeah. one of these days, but I release it. So I do sell what we talked about briefly. I have my own store, and that's also why I'm not in Kindle Unlimited, is because I sell my own e books.

Christina: yeah.

Jenn: I sell my e books on my direct store, and so any new release comes out two weeks early on my direct store than any other retailers. So, uh, end up getting a lot of sales directly for the people who are comfortable. And I feel like as the more time goes on, more and more readers are comfortable buying directly from authors. they have the chance once they realize they can, they can send it to their e reader and their device, you know, it's always uncomfortable at first to try something new.

Christina: yeah, because you don't, like you said, it's new to them. How do

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: my device? How do

Jenn: Yes.

Christina: put it with the rest of my books?

Jenn: Yep.

Christina: You know, yeah, it's

Jenn: Yeah.

Christina: it's

Matt: Yep.

Christina: print books when, you know, are they, are the spines all the same

Jenn: Oh my gosh. Are they all the same height

Christina: Yes!

Jenn: Oh, like, oh

Matt: well, that's awesome. We have absolutely enjoyed having you here. We've loved everything you've had to say and share. And I think there's a lot there that people can take away, right. As we kind of discuss this journey that you've gone through, the lessons that you've learned, the kind of trials and tribulations of, of your, your career.

Uh, so thank you very, very much for joining us and being a part of this today.

Jenn: Thank you both for having me. It was such a pleasure to be on here and just, I mean, the time just flew by. We are so,

Matt: did.

Christina: it

Jenn: so chatty

Christina: Yes.

Jenn: are chatty.

Matt: Excellent. Well, thanks again, Jenn Sterling, for joining us. And you know what? We're just extremely happy that you've tuned in again. We hope that you continue to write, that you continue to create, and you continue to get your voice out there, because that's what we're here for. So thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.

Christina: Bye!