Crafting Unforgettable Characters

In this episode of 'Write Out Loud,' Matt and Christina explore what makes characters truly unforgettable. The hosts discuss the qualities that endear characters to readers, including depth, motivation, and impactful choices. Through examples like Atticus Finch and Hannibal Lecter, they highlight how well-crafted characters leave lasting impressions. 

Tips are also shared for writers on avoiding common pitfalls and nurturing characters that feel real. Tune in for insightful advice on character development and storytelling that resonates long after the book is closed.

00:45 Introduction to Write Out Loud
01:27 Defining Unforgettable Characters
03:52 Examples of Unforgettable Characters
07:44 Creating Unforgettable Characters
15:36 Pitfalls in Character Development
21:04 Questions to Deepen Character Development
23:48 Final Thoughts and Writing Advice

 Hey, thanks so much for listening to the podcast. We really hope that you're enjoying every bit of it, but we would love to hear your feedback.  Drop us an email either to Matt@writeoutloudpod.com or christina@bookmatchmaker.com. We would love to hear your thoughts. What's working, what's not working. And what do you want to hear more of? Thanks so much. We really appreciate it.

Chapters

• 0:45 Introduction to Write Out Loud Episode 6
• 1:27 Defining Unforgettable Characters
• 3:52 Examples of Unforgettable Characters
• 7:44 Creating Unforgettable Characters
• 15:36 Pitfalls in Character Development
• 21:04 Questions to Deepen Character Development
• 23:48 Final Thoughts and Writing Advice

Transcript

Creating Unforgettable Characters

Matt: [00:00:45] Welcome everybody. To write out loud the. Podcast that you're listening to right now, the Storytelling podcast, that is all about storytelling and reading and writing and being that creative genius that you are. And of course with me is my most favorite.

Christina: Oh. Okay.

Matt: The incomparable, charismatic, curious, clever, compassionate, crackling with creative energy, and consistently the most delightful voice in the room. Christina.

Christina: I don't know about the most delightful voice in the room, but, okay.

Matt: Well.

Christina: go with it.

Matt: It's true. So tonight we're talking about unforgettable characters and not just the ones we love, not just the ones we argue about and miss and quote, and all of that jazz. And we compare every other character to them. But we're talking about those characters that. Really just stick in your brain, right?

You think about their [00:01:00] voice, you think about what they went through, you think about their charm, whatever that might be. What we're gonna focus on is just what makes an unforgettable character. And my question to you to start with is how would you define an unforgettable character?

Christina: Unforgettable to me is a little bit different than, memorable or good character or something of that nature. Unforgettable, to me, are those ones that. Tug at you after you close the book, after you stop watching the movie, after you stop watching this series you can't forget, you, you obsess over.

Would they do this? Would they do that? What do you think of this? What you know, you just, you cannot let go of them

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: even after the story has closed you. Tend to think about them five years later. You're in a situation and you're like, oh my God, what would, 

Matt: Hannibal Lecter do.

Christina: Yeah. Hannibal Lecter, what would [00:02:00] Hannibal Lecter be up to right now?

You know, what

Matt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christina: what would he think of the show? Dexter,

Matt: Yeah. Yeah.

Christina: Characters that will not leave you.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: They draw you back in. They take a hold of you. As soon as you open the book, you can tell an unforgettable character, within one chapter of reading them.

Matt: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I think for me, I boil it down to this, I think unforgettable characters for me are the ones that still feel alive when you close the book. Right? And, and it is something where I think you draw a distinction between unforgettable, doesn't mean they're likable necessarily. It doesn't mean they're flawless necessarily.

It doesn't mean they're loud or quirky or weird or strange, like they just feel alive. There's so much depth to them and they make have made such an impact on you in some way that, again, once you close the book, you still feel like they're alive and with you and you're thinking about them.

Christina: Yeah. They feel real.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: [00:03:00] They feel like you could have a conversation with them and you know how they would respond to you.

Matt: Oh, a hundred percent.

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Matt: For you. What are some of those unforgettable characters?

Christina: I mean there are so many, some of my absolute favorite books. Um. Atticus Finch, of course, from To Kill a Mockingbird. He is just one of those great moral characters that like you wish he was your dad, you wish he was your lawyer,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: he was on your, on your team. Someone that you can learn from, like most recently and in fact. Gosh, something, popped up last night, with Ted Lasso.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: and it was this story behind the story I didn't before I even, saw, uh, Ted Lasso and that, Jason Sudeikis had a friend, [00:04:00] I don't wanna call him a childhood friend, but somebody that he was very close to who is not in. The Hollywood sphere. He knew him when he was in Kansas City and he got very ill and they had to amputate his leg.

Matt: Hmm.

Christina: Since then Jason Sudeikis has helped him, establish this, charity organization. And, I didn't know how it tied into Ted

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: and it was really that, the morality of the character of Ted Lasso. Links back to this inspired, I'm not saying Ted Lasso is inspired by his friend, but the journey was, and so I, I absolutely, Ted Lasso is one of those that like, think he came out of left field for me in that, I was surprised at how much one [00:05:00] character. Changed all of those people's lives.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: made me think about, it's a wonderful life

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: where, uh, he gets to see all the ways in which he's affected these people's lives, you

Matt: Oh yeah.

Christina: with the help of his, angel George. And in a way, Ted Lasso does the same thing. And so. Being unforgettable for me, for Ted Lasso is really about that. He makes me think and reflect on my own life.

Matt: Yeah, for sure.

Christina: How do I change people's lives? And I think a lot of people don't understand how much their influence you don't even know it. You don't even know it. And I think that's the key point. For me, for Ted Lasso,

Matt: Oh yeah, for sure.

Christina: unforgettable characters that you

Matt: I teased one of them. I already mentioned his name, Hannibal Lecter for sure.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: In a [00:06:00] way, kind of an anti-hero almost. Right? Because he wasn't really a villain or anything like that. He wasn't really even an antagonist. He was. Like you said, a plot device. We've talked about it before a little bit, but for me, just that moral code, like he's, he has his own little moral code that he lives by.

He's very vicious and yet ruthlessly intelligent. Just a crazy character and I love it. Um, Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games Ion Lannister

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Matt: Game of Thrones. There were a lot of characters in Game of Thrones, and my thing about Tyrion is. He consistently becomes one of the characters that people quote or that they refer to or they talk about, there's t-shirts.

You know, I think of all the Game of Thrones merchandise out there. I drink and I know things is the one that I see almost exclusively.

Christina: yep.

Matt: But he just made such an impact in the story, right? And I think when I think about these specific characters that really have this impact, I guess my question to you [00:07:00] like what do you, what do these characters do that we just don't see often enough in other works?

Christina: For me, one of the major things that you actually have to do when creating. These characters it sounds hokey, it sounds cliche, it sounds like you know, an actor's class, you have to figure out their motivations.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: do they think, how do they feel, how do they react? And I think all of the characters that we named, everybody who has read, watched, and so forth, can actually tell how would. Hannibal Lecter react to this situation. How would you know Atticus Finch feel about today's current, racial and political atmosphere?

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: those types of characters have distinct ways of, [00:08:00] what is their motivation, what makes them move, what makes them. Do what they do in these stories.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Think that's part of how you create those unforgettable characters, is you have to know these people inside and out, and you do have to figure out what makes them tick, what

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: move. and number two, and this, this is a big one for me. I don't think. Any of the people that you can put on an unforgettable character's list has not had this. And that is some sort of growth from beginning to, where the story closes. I won't say where the story ends because, sometimes the characters just, continue on. they grow, they learn, and it's not necessarily, growing in a good way. Some [00:09:00] grow into the bad way. But they grow,

Matt: Yeah. I think change is the key. I think change is the big part that, that I bump on a bit. Right? That I think it's, it is more about change than growth in some ways, because I think the change to your point can be either positive or negative, but also it is change sometimes affected on the world around them instead.

So sometimes they like, when I think about like Hannibal lecture, he doesn't really change right. In a lot of his books and a lot of his stories, he doesn't really change, but he does change the world and change those around him, which is why he was such a good plot device for,

Christina: I,

Matt: agent or for

Christina: yeah,

Matt: Right.

Christina: yeah. I would beg to differ though.

Matt: Tell me,

Christina: he changed in subtle ways with Clarice.

Matt: Hmm. Okay.

Christina: know, he wasn't just manipulating her to get what he wanted in the beginning, yes, but I think he actually grew to [00:10:00] like her,

Matt: Ah,

Christina: her,

Matt: okay.

Christina: She changed his.

Matt: That's perceptions.

Christina: his perceptions, his, his motivations,

Matt: Okay. That's fair.

Christina: that's more what I'm talking about than yeah, you're right.

Growth probably isn't the correct word except for the fact that we're talking about characters and you have to see changes. Growth.

Matt: Sure.

Christina: In these characters, they have to grow in some way. Like I said, the growth may not be, just purely positive.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think Anakin Skywalker.

Christina: yeah. Yeah. Well, yes, exactly. His, his motivations him down the road that he went. Um, yeah. So do think you were to, and especially so, okay. I have not read the Hannibal Lecter[00:11:00] 

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: I have not. I've only seen, silence of the Lambs. I've not seen any of the other, um, iterations either. So that's what I'm basing it

Matt: Sure.

Christina: So, and I, I got to believe, knowing books the way I do, there's a whole world I'm missing and that if I had read the books, I could probably pull out exactly. he has changed now,

Matt: that's fair.

Christina: his fundamental characteristics have not changed. But I think the way he moves in the world, know, after meeting Clarice and their connection and they were connected and he did, enjoy

Matt: Oh yeah.

Christina: her,

Matt: Yes,

Christina: And I think in some ways.

Matt: I think.

Christina: recognizes, like, and

Matt: Yes.

Christina: in her, um, that he, possesses.

Matt: Yeah. 100%. No, I agree a hundred wholeheartedly there. I think he definitely saw something in [00:12:00] her that was a reflection of him, and he was like, oh, okay. And just very quickly came around to it.

Christina: but again, this is what we're talking about with unforgettable characters. They have such a depth to them.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: you can have these kinds of conversations now because some characters are forgettable. You can't bring them up in a conversation. But at this point, if we did bring up a forgettable character, we couldn't do that same,

Matt: Right.

Christina: Thing that we're doing here.

And

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: that's the difference.

Matt: Yeah. I think there's been some, different studies and different looks at the different pieces that make up an unforgettable character using our terminology. And really there's. A combination of these doesn't necessarily mean that the character has to have all five, but it does mean they have to have, at least maybe three or three of them, what we find in these characters.

So we have this strong internal want, which is exactly what you talked about when you, we mentioned motivation, right? They have to have this motivation to do [00:13:00] something or obtain something or be something or whatever. Uh, moral.

Christina: for me it's more about, what makes them move,

Matt: Sure.

Christina: that actually is gonna help the writer with, where does that character go? The character has to lead the story. Yes, we have our ideas of where we want the plot to go, but really the character is going to lead that motivation.

Matt: Yeah, for sure. Moral or emotional tension. So again, just something that's putting a little pressure on the way that they view the world and the way that they think things should be, clear behavior under stress so we know. Kind of what to expect from them. , But it's more clear when they're put in that position where something, it's that like it's go time, it is, time to march up mort and toss that ring in.

And they're under a lot of stress on how do they behave in that way. But that leads into these characters are also consistent without being predictable. I think we hear a lot [00:14:00] of conversations around. I watched this show and so this character did this thing and they, they just wouldn't do that.

That's not in their character. Like it just seems weird that they did that. Is it, or is it just the fact that it was something that was slightly out of the norm, but still in some way consistent with their core person, right? Like they did something you didn't expect. So is it truly out of character or is it actually just something that they decided to go, left instead of Right.

Because I think if you look at, at a lot of, go back to the motivation again, whatever that was, led them to make that choice and it's probably pretty consistent still with their character. And then meaningful change or impact, again, we talked about that piece, right? Just making that some kind of change and growth in some way.

So a couple of things. I think as we kind of think about. How we do this as writers, how we pull this together, and maybe some things to watch for. I would say just in terms of pitfalls, right? And you're trying to create these characters. A couple things I would say one writers that confuse [00:15:00] trauma for a character with depth

Christina: Yes.

Matt: is a pitfall, right?

Because just because something terrible happened to them does not necessarily make them a unforgettable character.

Christina: Yeah. And in fact I would argue that, rather than make the trauma of their characteristics, you figure out what the trauma does to them,

Matt: Yes.

Christina: does to their motivation, does to their. Um, opportunities for growth and

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: How does the trauma affect them?

Matt: Yeah. Are they dealing with it? Are they working through it? Are they just stuffing it down and trying, hoping for the best? Like what? What are they doing as a result of that, to your point? So, yeah.

Christina: yeah. I think that when you create character. A lot of people think that it's just, okay, here's what they look like. Here's who they are to the story. Here's this, here's that. The simple things. [00:16:00] And yes, those are part of your character development, but I think even more important, are these things that we talked about? And if you know that stuff. In the beginning when you flush out these characters, and I would actually, make the argument for every single person in the book now you don't have to go as in depth with minor characters

Matt: Sure.

Christina: you do with major characters, but I still think you should put some depth in there.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: out what makes. Even the minor characters tick because when they enter the scene, they will feel as real as, the other characters that you've worked on, in much more depth.

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: It's as ifs going back to your , Hannibal Lecter. Clarice, we talked to Clarice, Clarice, Clarice because she's main character, but who are some of these other people that are around them influencing them?

And if they come [00:17:00] onto the scene and they don't have the depth Hannibal and Clarice

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: the look two dimensional.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: So, yeah, you don't have to spend as much time oh, the police sergeant that she's working with, or, some of these other characters. But you do have to have some depth so that they don't look like, okay, who is this person?

Matt: Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I think the other piece, some of the other, I guess pitfalls that I would put out there,

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Matt: giving your characters quirks without consequence. So if you make them, let's just say a quirk is that they, they consistently threw out the F-bomb, but there's nothing that ever, like, it's just rapid fire.

Like it just happens almost every single sentence. There's no. Tension that's created because of that. There's no other, other characters that kind of come in to push against, push back against that. Maybe there's a character who just, his, the character's quirk is they like to shoplift and again, there's [00:18:00] never any consequence to it that's not creating the memorable character.

'cause again, you're not putting them in this position. Like, it's just like the trauma. It becomes just a box you checked without actually connecting it to why do they do what they do.

Christina: Yep. So what you're talking about there is actually giving it again, kinda like the trauma piece. Use it to give them meaning don't just give them a quirk. To make it a quirk because you wanna give them something unique. Um, it's gotta be something that means something to the story.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: you said, it's, it's not necessarily again, maybe I wouldn't use the word consequence because, I throw out the F bomb all the time and I don't have any consequences. But I also know where not to throw out the

Matt: Sure.

Christina: you know,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: What I'm talking about with that though is, um, giving it meaning

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: even if, oh, well, you know, [00:19:00] um, her f-bomb comes from someplace, and if you give it, again, I can only use the word meaning, um, because otherwise then it's just, again, it's a two dimensional,

Matt: Yeah, well, it's like this character uses the F-bomb because it's a way that she projects strength and toughness in her mind that keeps a layer of protection in front of her

Christina: yeah.

Matt: helps defend against people that might perceive her as weak and, and might try to, prey upon her. Right? Like that's, that's a use of that and drives the story.

Christina: Bingo.

Matt: Yep.

Christina: Bingo. Exactly.

Matt: another pitfall just around character, memorable characters. Characters that never have to make a hard choice.

Christina: Oh yeah.

Matt: If they're just wandering through life and stumbling into things,

Christina: there's no conflict

Matt: no story there either, I would argue and then also backstory, doing the work instead of behavior. I think this one actually falls in line with something that we talk about in previous episodes, which is show don't tell.

And I think if you're letting Backstory do all the [00:20:00] work you're telling, you're not showing.

Christina: Yep.

Matt: The third one kind of hits with me a little bit around never making hard choices. And I think, yeah, if you, if your character can avoid choosing, well, your story is gonna feel avoidable as well.

Christina: Yeah.

Matt: Right. It's like,

Christina: Yep.

Matt: why did I bother reading this? There's no point.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt: So I thought might be useful if we came up with just a, a list of questions that, a writer could use to ask themselves about their characters. We're just gonna try maybe three different questions Right. Just to keep it simple.

But I was trying to brainstorm a few of them and I think one of them. That really resonated with me was what does my character want? That scares them.

Christina: Oh yeah, I like that one.

Matt: Like what do they want so badly? But it just, it absolutely scares them. And it might be,

Christina: Yep.

Matt: be something as simple as success. Like they want success, but they're very scared of it because they don't want to, they're not sure what to do with it once they have it.

Christina: And the thing is, once you figure out what that [00:21:00] is, you absolutely have to put that up against them,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: um,

Matt: Yeah.

Christina: in that way. I think, again, I'm gonna fall back to motivation. What moves them? What makes them, The person that is a vital part of the story.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Christina: What? What is their function within the story?

Matt: Yeah. How do they serve the story?

Christina: are not the main character, who are they to the main character? Who are they to? So you just talked about that thing that scares them. are they in the scare? To that,

Matt: Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like it.

Christina: Yep.

Matt: Um, I also have what belief will they defend even when it costs them to do so?

Christina: This is a hill I, I will die on. Yes.

Matt: Yeah, exactly. Like even though it could cost them everything, they will die on this, on the sale. [00:22:00] Right? What is that belief? So ask, ask that question and then find, find the answer. And I think the one thing I'll, I'm gonna challenge you to do as you write your story is take one scene where your character is.

Given a choice of some sort, could be a choice that has options, A and B could have options, A, B, C, whatever. Take that scene and remove your character's safest option. Like just get rid of it. They cannot. They cannot now make that choice. What do they do?

And you should,

Christina: I would add on to that, uh, my infamous door number three. So

Matt: mm-hmm.

Christina: the easiest choice, find. One more door. So three choices that,

Matt: To add to the mix.

Christina: that to add to the

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, any other [00:23:00] final thoughts as we wrap this one up and we think about,

Christina: I,

Matt: uh.

Christina: think sometimes that everyone feels like they have to have the character all drawn out. I often joke about, Suze, was on the podcast previously, but Suze Brockman, writes 50 page outlines. knows her characters inside and out before, she starts writing. But that's not always possible. My piece of advice actually is to figure out you need to know in order to start the story, but also allow yourself, the room for the character to grow in a direction you may not know in the beginning. So I'm gonna explain that another way 'cause it feels like it's a little bit, high of a concept, but. Give yourself room for surprises within the story.

Matt: Oh.

Christina: Don't think of writing the story as [00:24:00] one and done. of the rough draft as you figuring out who the character actually is and then, reflecting on that before you start writing draft two, then figure out. I actually had one of my clients. She was writing a brand new series. So not only is she world building, along with building the characters, and that first draft, maybe she didn't have each character all drawn out. So I had, I tasked her with, now and figure out, your character's motivations and what makes them tick.

How do they interact with each other? How does each react to the other? So, so sometimes you're writing in a different way, than you think you should. So no, you don't have to have that 50 page outline. You don't have to have your character all mapped out before you start page one. You can actually figure out who your character is [00:25:00] after you write your first draft.

Matt: Sure. Sure. Absolutely. Well, one of the most powerful things a story can do is make us feel like we've met someone real. The characters we never forget aren't perfect. They're not always likable. They are honest under pressure, and they can change something even if that something is us. So if you're working on a character right now, here's your challenge.

Put them in that moment where they can't be comfortable and see who they choose to be. Thanks for spending your time with us here on Write Out Loud. If this episode sparks something for you, share it with a writer friend, or let us know what character you'll never forget, and don't forget to keep writing out loud.