Echoes of Kindness: Celebrating Ron Tatum's Journey of Service and Friendship

Embark on a heartfelt exploration of friendship and service as I, Charlie Shaw, reconnect with Ron Tatum, the man whose actions echo the values of the Martin Luther King Humanitarian Award he's just received. We're not just old friends, we're witnesses to each other's lives, and in this episode, we unravel the threads of Ron's commitment to bettering our world. From his humble beginnings influenced by his mother's wisdom to his role steering Families and Aging Services Incorporated, Ron's journey is a testament to the power of genuine community contribution.

Weaving through the narrative of Ron's book "Kiss My Babies," we uncover the poignant tribute to the unsung heroes of our neighborhoods, those whose impactful efforts often remain in the shadows. Ron's recent initiative, a clothing drive for children echoing his mother's legacy, amplifies the silent strength of quiet activism. The discussion pivots around the importance of purposeful speech in leadership, a nuanced approach to making a difference that Ron himself embodies. This episode is not just a conversation; it's a celebration of the quieter, yet resonant forms of activism that propel our communities forward.

As we touch on our shared experiences and the broader challenges within the African-American community, we shed light on the pivotal role of education, understanding our history, and the necessity for peaceful, informed activism. The dialogue extends into the realm of change and collaboration, emphasizing the value of fresh perspectives in leadership and the importance of maintaining connections as we navigate the complexities of life in our 50s. So join us, as this episode serves as a reminder of our collective responsibility and the enduring power of friendship.

Transcript

Charlie Shaw: 0:01

All right, allow me to introduce myself. I'm Charlie Shaw and this is the Lil' Mel: Unfiltered podcast. I'm here today with Ron Tatum. Ron Tatum is a good friend of mine from back home in Racine, Wisconsin. We actually grew up together. We know each other ever since middle school, right, Ron?

Ronald Tatum: 0:20

Oh yeah, man, Knowing each other for a long time, proud of you, my brother. Excited to be on this call with you this afternoon.

Charlie Shaw: 0:26

I appreciate you, man, I appreciate you. Ron and I have been staying in touch with each other pretty much since we got out of high school. You know, off and on we pick up where we left off.. He's raised his family, as raised mine. We're going through life, you know, to help some downs of life and, you know, persevere man Did our thing and very proud of you as well. Right, one of the main reasons why I got in touch with Ron this last time I was at home I was meeting him to catch up with you over Christmas time when I was at home, my brother, I got so sick man I didn't even want to see anybody so I kind of laid low. But we're on Facebook together and we follow each other. And notice Ron got an award. He was recognized for Martin Luther King Award. I'll stand as citizen. Ron, you want to tell me about that award?

Ronald Tatum: 1:21

Yeah, man, you know what God is good man, you know I am truly blessed man. I was recently acknowledged with the Martin Luther King Humanitarian Award. The great thing about this is the war man is from Pierce, that you work with and who admire, you know, some of the work that you do from afar. And though we don't do this to be seen I don't do this to be seen man, it's great to be acknowledged with such an honor in his namesake. First and foremost. An honor with Martin Luther King's junior name on it just says a lot. You know, within the name itself Before this would be. You know, a nomination from those who admire the work and the servant here that you do from afar just speaks volumes, man, and I'm truly blessed and fortunate man. I was just telling someone the other day, man, that this one, this one's for my mom, charlie, you know this is.

Ronald Tatum: 2:11

Miss Tatum. You know, callie, this is from Miss, and you know, train a child up the way she's you should go, man. You know Proverbs 22 and 6. And you know, I'm just trying to reap the benefits and rewards of Jesus Christ himself and what was instilled in. You know, you and I, as young boys and girls, man, our family was, was tight, was tight growing up man, it's the shows in the.

Ronald Tatum: 2:33

Tatum? Yes, we were. So you know we're carrying on this legacy, so I'm just thankful and blessed and humbled to be acknowledged again with honor in his namesake. But you know, to have these morals and values instilled in me as a young man paying dividends to the communities that we serve is just a blessing.

Charlie Shaw: 2:54

Well, I appreciate you saying that, Ron. I do want to let you know when you, when you made mention about Haven't been friends for years the Tatums and the Shawls know each other for going all the way back to our fathers and your uncles, and all of them, the next generation, grew up together.

Charlie Shaw: 3:14

Well, went to park. I have nephews that went to school with your, with your daughters and your and your nephews. And he mentioned, he mentioned Kathy, and the first thing I thought about was how Kathy used to get on us back in the day, go over and McDonald's looking for some free French fries. He wasn't getting no free French fries, but you could pick up that mess out there and all in the dining room.

Ronald Tatum: 3:32

Yeah, yeah.

Charlie Shaw: 3:34

Kathy didn't play with, but that's all right. How's she doing?

Ronald Tatum: 3:38

Kathy's still doing it, man. She's open to return in a couple of years. Man, that's beautiful. I'm so proud of the perseverance. You know she's my spiritual partner and so she's still doing it.

Charlie Shaw: 3:50

But she was always a sweetheart man, always a sweet absolute. Yeah, jerome all alone, yolanda all alone, man, they were all good folks. Well, you know you mentioned about the community what's going over. You know I was going over your resume around. You are very active in the community. I see you're. You're in a lot of outreach programs President's president of cops and kids reading program. Former president of big big brothers, big sisters in racing and Kenosha counties. National lines of mental, mental illness. Former board member, academies of racing, community members, board member. Racing foundation club wrote a rotary, rotary of racing racing county workforce committee members, your outreach and everywhere. Man Tell me. And you and your executive, with what you changed jobs up on me lately, not as a likely, but you're out there in Kenosha area. Families and agent services incorporated in Kenosha now Congratulations.

Charlie Shaw: 4:57

Yeah exactly yeah.

Ronald Tatum: 4:58

I appreciate the executive director just finished up a year, year and a few months, so really excited about that. But you know again, man, just just giving back to the community, man, you know I had an opportunity to have a front-world seat to really know and understand what serving hood was as a young boy my mom is still in the very young age is not about us, right? So I'm talking about the man. I saw people eating my food that mom made for us. I saw people with my clothes on in the neighborhood. I never could understand that, right, until, you know, I got older and started to realize. You know, something spectacular was happening right in front of my face. Right, I had a had a matriarch who was teaching us how to serve others before Right.

Ronald Tatum: 5:46

Now, if you think about that how to serve others before ourselves, let that digest for a moment. You know some people can't really quite copy in that you put someone else before yourself. Yes, and you know my mom did that and it took me a while to sort of understand what that meant. And this is why I'm in a nonprofit work man business, nonprofit work for over 20 plus years. I can go somewhere and make a lot more money. But you know the gratitude and the appreciation and the feel good stories that I have every day to go home and tell my family, my significant other, my loved ones, my friends, that I had an impact on somebody's life, each and every day. You know that's something you can't put a monetary cost to. You know we. So this is why.

Charlie Shaw: 6:35

We actually touched that the last time we was together, for last time I visited and we actually been able to sit down and talk. I was wondering. I was like man, you're doing a lot of you know nonprofit work. I was wondering why didn't you go into the corporate field? And you was qualified.

Ronald Tatum: 6:54

And you were just hanging out. Yeah, yeah, a lot of Don't get me wrong a lot of corporate people have knocked on my door, you know, and I was very entertained. But you know, in this type of work, man, you know you can't be driven by money, you gotta be driven by happiness, your morals and values. Morals and values have to mean something.

Charlie Shaw: 7:13

I have to agree with you on that man. I have to agree with you on that. I also serve my community, but in a different aspect. But there, you go and it all circles back. You know, taking care of others is the way it goes, and I'll there you go, you pay, the ultimate sacrifice.

Charlie Shaw: 7:35

Well, I'm still here with us. We have fallen. You still here. We have fallen.

Charlie Shaw: 7:39

Heroes that I'd like to call, you know responders, mercy responders, and that's just not police officers, that's firemen, that's people that drive to ambulances, people that work in the hospitals, even the social workers that end up, you know, in situations that they've lost their lives for others.

Charlie Shaw: 7:59

And now and later on, I'm gonna do a show about that and I'm glad that you touched on that because it keeps reminding me that it's not just about us, it's about others also, because a lot of people don't have the knowledge or the resources to help themselves and their families. You know they need people out there to help them along the way. You know, give them back, and your mother did a great thing by instilling that in all of us, and I'm gonna say in all of us. And a lot of people don't know that you come from a big family man and she's still. She was still taking care of everybody else in the neighborhood and a lot of people don't know you lived right across the street from the center, so she had access to everybody. She saw what you know, saw who had and who didn't.

Ronald Tatum: 8:50

So you know, yeah, yeah, man, there was three brothers. Three brothers, three sisters, man, big family Right. Just a little I thought we was rich man. You know, that's how my mom made us feel man. And the Bray Center 924 Center Street is the Bray Center. 923 Center Street is the Tatum House. Old man Was the safe haven, was a great resource, Saved my life, man. It wasn't for the Bray Center, there'd be no rontain.

Ronald Tatum: 9:19

I just you speak a lot on God and Christ and yes, tell me, you're evangelist now huh, yeah, man, I've been in the ministry man for nine years, man, and well over nine years, not 12 years, I'm sorry, but for 12 years I've been an evangelist. For 12 years now, you know, got that calling man. It's always been in us, it's always been in me. You know, I got that call. Actually I was in Cancun, Mexico.

Ronald Tatum: 9:53

Right, you're over a great or great or great temple correct yeah, great or great temple now and got the calling man to just pour back into God's people, man, and just to use me as a vessel. You know, and this is the work we're doing, we're all evangelists in a sense, those who do this type of work, those serving hood Right, you happen to speak evangelists from a Christ-like perspective.

Charlie Shaw: 10:22

I'm glad you touched on that, man. It might instill that power in others to help others. So I'm bringing that up. Absolutely, ron, how do you relax, because it sounds like you're busy? What's your hobby? What do you do? What's laughing at me, man? You gotta relax, you gotta relax you gotta relax.

Ronald Tatum: 10:47

Yeah, listen, man, I love to read, I love to write. Right now, a lot of people don't know I'm writing a book.

Charlie Shaw: 10:56

About who? About who? One guess yes, right. Book by mama, aren't you Right? The book about mom. Talk to me about it.

Ronald Tatum: 11:05

Yeah, the book is called kiss my babies. The book is because my babies is something that when we should have conversations into my mom's passing After the end of our calls, we talked every single day. I mean she talked to all seven of us and every time she needed the cause she would say, okay, kiss my babies, meaning kiss her grandkids and Everybody, and you know so this book is dedicated to her. It's called kiss my babies. It's about, you know, growing up on Center Street, having a matriarch. You know, like my mom, some of the work that she's did in the community many people didn't know about and how silent she did it, but how loudly she was. Impactful, right.

Charlie Shaw: 11:52

And your mother wasn't miss both your what? Your mother wasn't a big woman at all, man. She was, you know, but she was very.

Ronald Tatum: 11:58

Her voice was Very powerful and even in this voice yeah, yeah, she spoke up.

Charlie Shaw: 12:04

Right, you know, you know, and so we speak you know, recently, over the holidays, you did a clothing drive and honor your mother as well.

Ronald Tatum: 12:15

Right yeah over the holidays we do a drive. One thing that people don't know about my mom is that, you know, after her retirement she wanted to keep herself busy so she became a bus aid, which you know. She arrived the buses with students, make sure they behaved, and from first grade all the way up to eighth grade, and what she would notice is some of these kids and have hats and gloves and coats in the wintertime. And what we didn't know, what a lot of people didn't know, is that my mom would use her own funding to provide hats and gloves and coats to these kids who didn't have it. So there are some kids out here in the community that have hats and gloves and coats. Parents probably didn't know where they got it from. They came from. They came from Cali Tatum. She did that for over 20, came from an angel is where it came from.

Charlie Shaw: 13:08

There you go, there you go, so it's a good thing to have a good job.

Ronald Tatum: 13:12

So Over 20 years, man, but she did it silently. So when you say silent, me, but yet powerful, you know that's the servant hood that she is still to me. So when you see me, this is, this is, this is as a reflection of her. Everything that I do is reflection of her. I don't do this to be seen. People acknowledge it and you know I give all glory to God for almost when people cannot. But I don't do it to be seen and I do it because I saw it being done right.

Charlie Shaw: 13:39

Well, Ron, I'm gonna just be honest with you, man. One of the main reasons why I wanted you to be a guest on my show is because you do do things that's not being seen. You do a lot of stuff behind the cover and I just want to bring you out. I want the people to know Ron Taylor was out here helping your community and he's doing it with a team of people. You're not doing it by yourself. You know that it takes a team and you organize yourself as such. So no, that has to be applauded, it has to be saluted and it has to be recognized, and I'm glad that they recognize you on MLK with that Emanitarian Award. So be proud.

Ronald Tatum: 14:15

And.

Charlie Shaw: 14:15

I know you're not gonna toot your horn, but I'm gonna toot it for you. I'm gonna toot it for you. I appreciate it.

Charlie Shaw: 14:20

You know, there was something else that we talked about and I had to do a little research on it Well, research on myself and think about what you said and it was very interesting Speaking up versus speaking out and the reason we brought that up was because, you know, a lot of things go on in the community and we have a lot of people that have voices, but are they directing their voices in the right direction and are they using it? Are they using their voice in the right capacity to the right audience? And we had a little dialogue about that the other day and I want you to explain to me what is your thoughts, what is your thoughts about speaking up versus speaking out and how is that effective?

Ronald Tatum: 15:14

Absolutely, man. There's a difference, and that's what people need to know. There's a difference between speaking up and speaking out right, and so one of the things I shared that I love about Martin Luther King is that he spoke up. There was purpose behind, he had a vision behind Everything that he did, and he had a knowledge-based understanding as to why he was doing those things right, and so he spoke up. I think we have a lot of people who speak out who don't quite understand. You know the journey of you know just let's use African-Americans, for example everything that we've been through. A lot of people don't know the history right.

Charlie Shaw: 15:56

A lot of people don't know about the.

Ronald Tatum: 15:57

Oklahoma massacre, Black Law Street and these things, you know, and why some of these things matter today and why it matters that we honor their people from the past, like we should be doing today. And so there's no homework done, you know we, you know we get angry and we get frustrated. We don't quite understand as to why. So, as because of that, because we're not educating ourselves and taking a moment to really understand how long this thing spans, and the people before us who fought for us, for our rights to vote, and you know, and things like that and you know all the riots and things that have taken place.

Ronald Tatum: 16:38

You know we don't educate ourselves on why that is so important right now, how we should collectively come together and take a stand and take a front to speak up. Instead, we have a lot of people who speak out who are rioting, don't even know why they're rioting, looting, don't even know why they're looting. We're burning down things. Don't even know why we're burning down things.

Charlie Shaw: 17:00

Burn down communities that you live in.

Ronald Tatum: 17:03

And, right now, communities. You know so. So you have to have a clear understanding and educate yourself as to why not just because it's something cool to do right Speaking up. You identify with all those things. You understand why it's important To vote right, not just for the president, but for your order men, your city councils, your mayors and your senators and your congressmen, etc. You understand how that impacts us as the people.

Ronald Tatum: 17:33

You understand why you're taking a stance against racism and politics inside the workplaces, inside your communities, etc. Right, because you took time to gather that knowledge and that understanding of historically what it has meant and just using African American people as an example, black people as an example what has meant to us over time right In our history, in our history. And so one thing I like about some of the young people that are up and coming now I don't know if they call them the Gen X or what they call them right now is that we're seeing them sort of go back and look at things historically. That puts us in a lot of trouble because it's not all negative.

Ronald Tatum: 18:16

We have some young people who are coming up who get it right, but there's still some of us who don't, that choose to speak out, not educate and equip us with knowledge, and so the more you're equipped with knowledge, the more impactful our voices can be.

Charlie Shaw: 18:33

You can speak on that. You can do the time you can speak on it better.

Ronald Tatum: 18:39

There you go the more in PAC-4 our voices can be, the more we can speak on it, right, and so that's where this is how we progress, right, we digress when we don't do that, because I mean, just look at it. So the media will play tricks with our mind. They'll just show all the protesting and things that are negative have negative content, right, but there's a lot of peaceful process that are going on, with people who are speaking up, that they never show, right? Until we identify and educate ourselves that this is happening, they're gonna continue to focus on the people who are speaking out as opposed to people who are speaking up. But if we come together collectively, they have no choice but to look at it as this is one Right.

Charlie Shaw: 19:26

That's powerful, bro. I can't argue that point. Sometimes we're just talking. A lot of people are just talking and not really saying anything, and you broke it down as simple as speak up versus speaking out. Take your time. Take your time, find out what the real issues are, because a lot of issues are hidden with other agendas. Not everything is as what you think it is. You could be looking at something that is really not what it is or listening to something that's really not what it is. There's a different agenda. Find out what the agendas are. I think that people should really study what's going on in their own, in the community that they live in, the community that they go to the store in. Find out what's going on in that community before you try to figure out what's going on on a national level, Because when you grow up and start paying taxes and home or association fees and all the other fees the impact fees in the community that you're living in, that's having more of an effect on you than what's happening nationwide.

Ronald Tatum: 20:37

So you go, man, educate ourselves on red zone, your gentrification. Educate ourselves so we can be more powerfully equipped.

Charlie Shaw: 20:46

There's a reason why certain neighborhoods are being effective and other neighborhoods are being left alone. Find out why. There you go, go down to the city hall, go to the meetings in the evenings Not everybody. Sometimes you do have free time at 6.30 when that monthly meeting or that quarterly meeting's going on. Take that time out to go see what's happening. There's nothing wrong with it. The doors are open. The doors are open, just like the church Doors are open.

Ronald Tatum: 21:17

Absolutely and right on the nail, sir.

Charlie Shaw: 21:23

Do you have any thoughts on starting anything like that up, starting up on groups like that and in your region?

Ronald Tatum: 21:34

Yeah, I've had conversations with a few people in my community. We have some things that we're working on towards that bringing more young people to the table. We're challenging people to change up. Who's at the table too, charlie? We have some of the same people at the table and the needle's not moving Right. I ask you to write questions. So we're challenging I shouldn't say challenging. We're having conversations with some community leaders about looking at themselves internally and sort of gauging what type of results have they garnered over time. So we're asking some of the difficult questions in a professional way because we want to see results. A lot of people talk to us and they put dollar signs in front of us. One of the things we don't ask is the people is let us see some data metrics of that needle moving. What percentage have moved from two years ago until now? Why isn't?

Charlie Shaw: 22:32

this needle moving.

Ronald Tatum: 22:33

In the case that we think it should move, we talk about housing in the black community. A lot of people throw money at housing in the black community and everybody's oh yeah, they're throwing money for black people to get homes, but there's still not a lot of black people owning homes. So we got to ask the question why? Well?

Charlie Shaw: 22:51

you're talking about. That's a great subject. There's not enough people of color owning homes and sometimes you got to ask yourself okay, well, they're not if you can't own a home, but what about affordable living? Are there places where they're safe with their families in affordable housing in a decent community? And does any community can be term, any community can be safe is where the resources being put. I work in law enforcement. Are we using the proper resources in that area for with the services that are available to them? Those are a lot of things that you're gonna ask also.

Ronald Tatum: 23:34

Right, absolutely. And then you know, quite frankly, a lot of organizations and agencies who have these board meetings and people on the board have people who wanna agree with them at the table.

Charlie Shaw: 23:45

Right, and I'm not gonna agree with everything, and I know you're not. You're not that type of person either, especially when you see a problem that's been occurring for years and you're still not addressing that. Or you may mention earlier about Committees being stagnant or people staying on board. Yeah, sometimes you need a fresh, sometimes you need a fresh set of eyes.

Ronald Tatum: 24:09

Yeah, you need a fresh set of eyes, man. You know we can have impactful conversations professional but you just need to change the dynamic at your tables and take a really good look at who's sitting at the tables. I've had to personally pull myself off a couple of boards because there was no movement. Right, I can't sit on the board, charlie, and then just leave there and say, okay, I, you know, I serve my duty. For two hours I was at a board meeting, right? That doesn't fit well with me. There's there's a lot of people who are, there's a lot of people depending on me while I'm sitting at that table. So help them garner the results that they're looking for.

Charlie Shaw: 24:49

So I take it home. Well, that's all the part of being a leader too. Now, and you know, yeah, that's all the part of being a leader addressing your, addressing your pros and cons of yourself, identifying where where you're weak as well and how can you make it better. Sometimes I was just discussing with somebody the other day Sometimes you got to take a step back, take two steps, for and there's nothing wrong with stepping off of something She'll let somebody else take the front. You know, absolutely. You know we're all in, we're all in the same building, but we're looking at things, and in different, you know, in different windows. So you know that might be something that you know you might want to look at. As a leader, sometimes I might have to step back, unless somebody step up, and to get a better, better view of it.

Ronald Tatum: 25:31

Here you go. That's, that's a great, that's a great point.

Charlie Shaw: 25:36

Well, Ron, I didn't want to keep you all day. I'm really enjoying the conversation. Is there anything else that you want to touch? Touch on?

Ronald Tatum: 25:45

And you know what, charlie man, I know again, I am so proud of you, my brother man.

Ronald Tatum: 25:51

You just don't know, man, but you know, I'm just truly blessed man, I'm humbled, I'm thankful man. I give all the glory to my Lord and Savior, man, and I Thank him for this platform that he's given, this platform that he's given me, in all the platforms he's giving people who have a heart to serve and give back to others. Man, some of us wear uniforms, some of us wear suits, some of us wear doctor clothes, etc. Man is all about servanthood, man, and if we collectively Identify with that, the more better off we will be, the more better off we can help so many people Around us in our communities, and that's where the work starts. But we have to get back to that 923 Center Street mentality and when we were.

Ronald Tatum: 26:37

Where we could run in our own neighborhoods without hesitation. Where the parks were full right, they weren't empty right, and so that's what I'm trying to work on. Man, you know, you want to know what my driving determination is what to what is that?

Ronald Tatum: 26:51

My is to make a difference in this community on this journey we call life. Man, you know I'm gonna leave you with this. Things you do for yourself are gone when you're gone. Right, but think you do, but things you do for others remain as your everlasting legacy. Listen, man, that's all I'm trying to do.

Charlie Shaw: 27:12

Well, you know.

Ronald Tatum: 27:12

I was.

Charlie Shaw: 27:13

I was actually gonna let, I was actually gonna give you a minute to Put that out there, and if you wasn't gonna put that out there, I was gonna ask you about it because you're all your. Your bride actually posted that in and I love that statement, yeah and that's, that was what that was.

Charlie Shaw: 27:30

That was one of the reasons why I called you. I was like you know what I need to talk to me? Talk to that brother real quick, because I know that you out there doing that. I know that you stand on it as well, so you're not just you're not just talking, you, you're just. You're not just talking, you are, you are active in your community and people.

Ronald Tatum: 27:49

Say this to Charlie Acknowledgment to my family man, my bride, my kids, my grandkids. Man, you know this, this work pulls, pulls me. You pulls me away a lot. You actually, what do I rest, man? Sometimes it's difficult to, and my family has Understand, understood that and has given me the platform to know that sometimes your husband and your daddy won't be at home because they know that everything I'm doing is trying to help other people as well as leave a legacy for them to carry this torch. There you go. So I wanted just a man. I'm blessed with a great wife, great kids, great grandkids and a sort of supporting group and friends like yourself, man, so I'm thankful for all of you, no problem.

Charlie Shaw: 28:32

Listen, I do want to have you back on the show At a later time, whenever you're ready or there's a topic that you want to discuss. And, matter of fact, if there's anybody out there that want to come on to the show and talk about anything that they think is important to them, that they want to share, hey feel free. We're brought, we're here for you and we're posting everything every Thursday. So, ron, tell us, when is that book air be out? Which mother?

Ronald Tatum: 29:00

Man look for 2025.

Charlie Shaw: 29:01

What's up.

Ronald Tatum: 29:02

So my goal so 2025. It will be coming out. Man, you'll be one of the first to get a copy.

Charlie Shaw: 29:08

My brother, Well, I'll be at the signing. Just let me know. You know I'm retired now, man, I like to travel for for any reason. So please give me an opportunity, please give me a reason to come. Come home, not that I need a reason to come. Come home, I love to come home. You know, hit all the you know, hey, ron, stay in touch.

Charlie Shaw: 29:31

Oh, you know what? Let's not let it be, let's not let time go too far from one another. Let's just check in with each other, just see how each other is doing. We've been pretty good about that in the last couple years and I want that to continue. Matter of fact, we need to do that with more of our More to people that we grew up with. We need to check on one another man. We don't got, we don't got older. Now we're yeah, well, yeah, we're in our 50s now, but we still, you know we we need to check on one another man because you know life, life has a way of Testing us and we need to. You know a lot of people need to speak to one another. Just see how they're doing it. So let's do that after you, if whoever's listening to this show, check on your family, check on your friends from past and present. All right, ron, take care of yourself, brother, I appreciate it and, like I said, don't be a stranger.

Ronald Tatum: 30:20

You two brother double.

Charlie Shaw: 30:21

All right, all thanks. Thanks for tuning in to a little metal podcast show and we'll see you next time.