00:00:00 INTRO
Whether your beer is in a bottle can or glass kick back and relax, it's better on draft.
00:00:17 KEN
We are live better on draft podcast. My name is Ken. Thank you so much for joining us. I truly appreciate it on this Friday night.
00:00:27 KEN
We are having a great interview today but I want to go over and see what my Co hosts are drinking before we begin starting with Wendy.
00:00:33 KEN
Wendy, what do you have?
00:00:35 WENDY
Well, it is my favorite time of year and I have parents who love me, so they picked up a mad elf grand crew for me on their way.
00:00:43 WENDY
Home this week.
00:00:46 KEN
And Dan, what do you got?
00:00:48 DAN
Hold on. I'm confused. One of your favorite time of the year is veteran's day.
00:00:53 WENDY
No, it is mid off season.
00:00:55 DAN
Ohh gotcha so I've.
00:00:57 DAN
Got a couple of things here. I've got a bacon and eggs from pizza port and then another one of my all time favorites and now pays from Lacombe.
00:01:07 KEN
Alright, and for myself I have two beautiful cans of the Juno juice from the Alaskan brewery deciding to try to clear out some of these IPA's and hazies and stuff that is in the back of my fridge that continues to get pushed in the back because you all know how much I love me, some IPA's, but with us in studio.
00:01:27 KEN
Is our guest. We have Matt Mattio is what everybody calls him, apparently from Fiddlehead brewing. Why don't you give us a little bit of introduction? Tell us what you.
00:01:38 KEN
And a little bit about fiddlehead.
00:01:40 MATTY-O
All right. Welcome to the show.
00:01:42 MATTY-O
Thanks for having me. My name is Matt and I am the owner of Fiddlehead Brewing Company. I've dedicated my life to craft beer. I've been in the industry for 25 plus years and enjoyed every single day of it. It's been an incredible journey.
00:01:59 MATTY-O
And fiddlehead, which is my first project that I've taken on.
00:02:05 MATTY-O
As the owner has has been an incredible success story, we've been in business now for 12 plus years and we are at the beginning of this year. We were the 36th largest craft brewery in the country out of 10,000 and we are 20, about 25.
00:02:25 MATTY-O
Percent over those numbers this year. So we are going to find.
00:02:29 MATTY-O
Sells probably in in the top 20 next year, if not low 30s, so some really exciting things happening.
00:02:38 MATTY-O
And we do that.
00:02:39 MATTY-O
With a very simplified playbook, I don't have 20 SKUs. I focus on a couple of core brands and should have IPA, which is what I'm drinking right now.
00:02:50 MATTY-O
It is a beer for all occasions and.
00:02:53 MATTY-O
There it is.
00:02:54 MATTY-O
OK, highly recommended and this is 85% of.
00:02:57 MATTY-O
Our sales so.
00:02:59 MATTY-O
It's a beer that I drink often and always, and people constantly ask me, well, what other beers do you drink and the the the real answer is none. I I have I.
00:03:09 MATTY-O
Only go to accounts.
00:03:09 MATTY-O
That serves little head. So when I'm out in the market, I'm drinking my beer and.
00:03:14 MATTY-O
I'm always trying it. I always want to make sure that a lot of breweries and Brewers tend to get blinded because they're only drinking it fresh, but I will drink the beer. I will purposely take home old cases, and so I'm I'm constantly checking on the quality and making sure that the shelf.
00:03:30 MATTY-O
Stability is there.
00:03:32 KEN
I I have a follow-up question of that because it's more of a question of curiosity, but when you run into an account that may be over purchased got overzealous you know thinking they can move a specific amount of cases and now they're sitting on some.
00:03:47 KEN
Old product, how do?
00:03:49 KEN
You as a business owner.
00:03:52 KEN
Rectify that type of situation to make sure that.
00:03:55 KEN
You know, certain facilities.
00:03:57 KEN
Aren't carrying old product anymore other?
00:04:00 KEN
And buying your product to to go dump somewhere.
00:04:03 MATTY-O
Sure. That's a great question because it's one of the most difficult things to to have control over being that you know in in most every state in, in the United States, we're selling through a three tiered system. So once it leaves our control, it goes to our distributors. So you need to work closely with your distributors.
00:04:22 MATTY-O
And then the next cell goes to.
00:04:24 MATTY-O
The account and it gets very difficult to have that REACH and the reality is once the accounts have bought the beer, it is theirs to do it as they please. But we have taken a very strict standard with all of our accounts and with our distributor partners. So we demand that our distributors.
00:04:45 MATTY-O
Hold no more than 15 days worth of inventory, which is very rare in this industry. Most other suppliers are giving their distributor up to 60 to 90 days worth of.
00:04:56 MATTY-O
Inventory and there's a lot of reasons to do that. So very tempting, the distributor will give you money, you'll have more cash on hand that you can use to fund your business. But for me, it's I made a decision when I put my beer into distribution that that.
00:05:10 MATTY-O
Wasn't the most.
00:05:10 MATTY-O
Important thing, the most important thing was quality and freshness. And so we demand.
00:05:16 MATTY-O
Not only 15 days worth of inventory.
00:05:18 MATTY-O
We demand cold.
00:05:19 MATTY-O
Storage from everything from shipping. The accounts can only store the beer cold. So when you look at our numbers and and out of that top 50.
00:05:29 MATTY-O
There's not many of other breweries that have those types of requirements. We are selling all that and crazy amount of beer through the cold box. So we're not selling beer at the case stats at the end of the aisle in the supermarket, we're the majority of beer is sold in America. We're not selling beer at.
00:05:49 MATTY-O
At at retailers that don't have cold storage.
00:05:53 MATTY-O
So we're missing a huge segment of the category, but we're still able to put up some incredible numbers and that is because of, in my mind, the reason is because we're selling such a fresh product and whether the consumer gets that or not is to be determined. But what they do get is every time they open up.
00:06:14 MATTY-O
You had IPA. The beer is super fresh and it's it's always kept cold so.
00:06:19 MATTY-O
That is one way that we're able to to control that. So when we first started with cans to get back to your, to your original question, how do we police it? We would, our distributors were on strict orders if they went to an account to deliver the next week and there was still product from the prior week well then that beer could be dropped and they need to sell.
00:06:39 MATTY-O
First, uh. I'm not worried about how to stocks. I'd rather go out of stock than have old beer on the shelf. I I I think I I'm like most consumers out there.
00:06:50 MATTY-O
If I can't get something to, I'm not going to stop wanting it. I want it even more so, you know, having having an out of stock is not the the end of the world in my opinion.
00:07:02 KEN
We're dealing with maybe larger players in the game here in Michigan. We have Meyer, Kroger, there's, you know, Giant Eagle.
00:07:11 KEN
Whatever your large grocer is, Walmart.
00:07:13 KEN
Art, maybe even over in the New England and the Vermont area. How do you deal with maybe those larger organizations that might have a bigger hand in the the distribution because they're buying so much product already?
00:07:30 MATTY-O
Yeah, again, we we don't, we don't do volume discounts. A lot of larger brands will do, they'll they'll incentive.
00:07:36 MATTY-O
As a a retailers to buy more by giving a break on price, we don't do that because that's goes that's counter to what we're trying to do with delivering the freshest product. So it's it's working with them and you know like Trader Joe's is a great example. It's a huge retailer in New York City.
00:07:57 MATTY-O
Area in New York City market and.
00:08:00 MATTY-O
They don't have.
00:08:00 MATTY-O
Cold storage? Well, they want another beer and we.
00:08:03 MATTY-O
Need to figure out.
00:08:04 MATTY-O
How we can make this work?
00:08:06 MATTY-O
So while you don't go to the cheese section.
00:08:09 MATTY-O
Of fine beer, that's.
00:08:10 MATTY-O
Where they force us in they.
00:08:11 MATTY-O
They made a spot for us and the cheese.
00:08:12 MATTY-O
In in in the stores in New York City and and now you can get some cheese and grab some fiddlehead IPA so you know there there's ways around it if you're persistent, but it is a it is a constant uphill battle. And I feel that my especially you know my my distributor partners as well as my our sales force, they spend a lot of time.
00:08:33 MATTY-O
You know, being the cold police, we call it and they're going out there and and you know.
00:08:38 MATTY-O
Checking on retailers.
00:08:39 MATTY-O
But you know one of one.
00:08:41 MATTY-O
Of the greatest.
00:08:42 MATTY-O
Resources, in my opinion, is your consumer base, and so we clearly label on all of our cans. Please store cold when we sell our beer in a four pack on the top of the pack pack, it says must be still cold on a sticker. So we.
00:08:59 MATTY-O
Really have made a campaign to educate our consumer and to to let us know if they're seeing retailers that are not conforming to to our wishes. So that is that's been a a large.
00:09:16 MATTY-O
Success that, that that Phil had has definitely undertaken and and really done well with.
00:09:24 KEN
Well before I pass it over to to Dan with a few more questions, why don't you give us the rundown? What is Fiddlehead IPA?
00:09:32 MATTY-O
Sure, fill that IPA is really what what I saw as a hole in the definitely in the Vermont market.
00:09:40 MATTY-O
When I first.
00:09:41 MATTY-O
Started and A and kind of New England.
00:09:45 MATTY-O
As a as.
00:09:46 MATTY-O
A as a whole was there was all these great IPA's that were being.
00:09:49 MATTY-O
They did, but there was not. No one had had got to the scale where they were producing. One of these beers on a large scale that was readily available to, to bars and restaurants. And so that's really was kind of the driver. My business plan really summed up in one sentence. That was what I set out to do in 2010.
00:10:10 MATTY-O
And we it is a really balanced IPA, it's.
00:10:17 MATTY-O
About 45 IBU's, so it's not incredibly bitter. It's bitter enough to to, you know, be stylistically correct. But certainly I wouldn't describe it as like a soft IPA, which is kind of another popular style around New England, but it's so it has, it has the bitterness, but we spend a lot of time.
00:10:39 MATTY-O
And energy dry hop in the beer. And so we put a lot of dry hopped.
00:10:43 MATTY-O
Into this beer.
00:10:44 MATTY-O
So it.
00:10:44 MATTY-O
Has a really beautiful dank hop aroma. Which.
00:10:49 MATTY-O
Kind of gives the the consumer kind of a perceived bitterness where they feel that the beer is actually more bitter than it actually is. And I think that's what people like. They like the smell of of hops, but not necessarily the bitter or astringent flavor associated with that. So.
00:11:05 MATTY-O
It's a really well.
00:11:06 MATTY-O
Balanced beer in that sense and it.
00:11:08 KEN
Checks the boxes.
00:11:09 MATTY-O
For for a lot of different types of consumer, I hear all the time from craft heavy consumer. That's really loves the beer. Hey, it's.
00:11:18 MATTY-O
You know, whenever I.
00:11:18 MATTY-O
Go here, here. Here. I always grab my fiddle head.
00:11:21 MATTY-O
Or I hear from people like I don't. I hate IPA's typically, but I love your beer, so it really is able to.
00:11:29 MATTY-O
To bring people.
00:11:31 MATTY-O
Into the into the.
00:11:32 MATTY-O
Category as well as satisfy people that are deeply embedded into the category. So it's really been a a fantastic.
00:11:40 MATTY-O
Vehicle for that.
00:11:44 WENDY
I actually want to respond to that real quick because I don't get the beer a whole lot because I don't spend a lot of time in the Northeast.
00:11:54 WENDY
But I went back and looked at my untapped and I found that I did have the second fiddle back in 2016.
00:12:03 WENDY
Which was at.
00:12:03 WENDY
The very beginning of my IPA journey, I guess I would call.
00:12:08 WENDY
And my I don't. I really rate things and I put notes in there a lot for me to just remember what I liked about the beer and my note was actually this is a an IPA that I could drink on a regular basis and which is pretty high praise from somebody who is so hot.
00:12:29 WENDY
At the time.
00:12:30 WENDY
So I I wish that I had had more access to it. So now I'm looking for somebody to mule it back for me.
00:12:37 MATTY-O
All right, sounds good.
00:12:41 DAN
All right, so I want to jump in here. So you're in an interesting part of the country when it comes to breweries being just South of Burlington, people that don't know Burlington is the largest brewery city per capita out there in America. What was it like getting started there? I know you opened in 2010. What was the competition like and getting your feet on the ground and getting your brand out there?
00:13:03 MATTY-O
Well, I've been in the Vermont beer scene for for many years, since 1996 and I I worked for Magic Cat for 13 years. I was a head.
00:13:15 MATTY-O
Brewer there, so I.
00:13:16 MATTY-O
I had a lot of contacts I did.
00:13:18 MATTY-O
A lot of different things, I and so I really felt that.
00:13:23 MATTY-O
These kind of iPads were just emerging at that time and really for for me it was kind of going after that draft play, which was a space that a lot of people weren't playing in. Canny had just become quite popular. And so a lot of people.
00:13:37 MATTY-O
Were going directly into.
00:13:38 MATTY-O
Package and my idea was really to focus on on the the on premise.
00:13:44 MATTY-O
Which is where I feel brands are really built so that that was kind of our goals early.
00:13:50 MATTY-O
On you know there's, yeah.
00:13:52 MATTY-O
There's, there's a lot of competition here. There's, there's a lot of noise. You.
00:13:55 MATTY-O
Know there's a lot.
00:13:56 MATTY-O
Of that, you go into a into.
00:13:58 MATTY-O
A package store.
00:13:59 MATTY-O
There's a lot of four packs on the.
00:14:02 MATTY-O
So the most important thing for me when I started was to own my home market and and before I ever thought about shipping a drop of beer out of the state, I needed to satisfy every last outlet in my home state. Prior to doing that. And I think back to.
00:14:20 MATTY-O
That Wendy's point like.
00:14:21 MATTY-O
You don't get beer. We have a very small footprint. We're only in that 10 states right now. And I think that that's probably will be as many states as we're able to grow fiddle.
00:14:32 MATTY-O
With at at the same time, you know keeping up 15 days worth of inventory, making sure the beer is fresh, making sure the beer is cold, it becomes a lot more challenging logistically as you send the beer farther and farther from home. So yeah, it's it's it's great that, you know, Vermont is.
00:14:52 MATTY-O
It's great that there's a lot of emphasis and energy placed on on craft beer. When I first got into the industry, New England was kind of the laughingstock of of the rest of the.
00:15:03 MATTY-O
United States, when it came to craft.
00:15:06 MATTY-O
Early on, for those of you who are not familiar with kind.
00:15:09 MATTY-O
Of the new.
00:15:09 MATTY-O
England scene there was a a guy by the name of Peter Austin and he sold his Peter Austin system which was a it was like a A7 barrel system. It came with everything including recipes and Ringwood yeast. And so every pub if throughout New England.
00:15:26 MATTY-O
Had one of these systems, so they're all making this top crop and open forum.
00:15:30 MATTY-O
Wanted Ringwood style beers. That all tasted like like butter and and the big malt bombs. So that was kind of the origins of it, but.
00:15:43 MATTY-O
You know we.
00:15:44 MATTY-O
We we we have a lot of dedicated people and and consumers that were really are die hard.
00:15:50 MATTY-O
Vermonters that love local products, so there's always an emphasis on local products. So, you know, if you make a great product and you deliver at a great price, there's always.
00:16:00 MATTY-O
Going to be good for you in the market.
00:16:01 MATTY-O
And Vermont is, you know, we're kind of a testament to that. So it's been a kind of slow, steady, steady rise and but it's been really exciting and I think that our location and being part of the Vermont beer scene has been instrumental in our success.
00:16:19 DAN
Now your flagship here. As we were talking about is the IPA. What made you go with an IPA to be your main seller?
00:16:25 MATTY-O
Well, at the time no one was doing it. The reality was no one was. This was 2000 when I first opened my doors in 2011. You know, the alchemists had started. They were doing some canning.
00:16:40 MATTY-O
Hill was, you know, Sean Hill was just getting started.
00:16:42 MATTY-O
As well, and no one had.
00:16:48 MATTY-O
Wide distribution statewide distribution of of of of a beer. So of an IPA and that's I I kind of was able to 2nd beers that I was interested in consuming and I felt that people and people's palettes were kind of migrating towards a hoppier style of beer.
00:17:08 MATTY-O
So there was a perfect storm. The timing was right. We focused on making an IPA and and doing one and doing it really, really well. And then second fiddle was.
00:17:18 MATTY-O
The second product we came out with and that was a double IPA and that was one that we can well before we ever canned our flagship IPA, our flagship IPA, actually hadn't been canned until up until the pandemic.
00:17:33 DAN
Oh wow. OK, I'm glad you brought up The Alchemist. You know John Kimmich, he's been on the show. He is the father of the New England IPA and he was on here telling us he hates where New England IPA's have gone. I don't see a New England IP on your menu or any of your beers that you make do.
00:17:50 DAN
You avoid this style or tell us about.
00:17:53 MATTY-O
What would you go to? Philadelphia. This is called a cheese steak, right? It's not. It's not called the Philly cheese steak. It's called the cheesesteak. So if you're in Vermont, if I the way I see it, I'm an IPA. It is in New England IPA because that's where it's being made. I don't need to to accept, you know, to really call that out, I felt.
00:18:12 MATTY-O
In our marketing and I try to stay away from the.
00:18:15 MATTY-O
You know those all those words, those.
00:18:17 MATTY-O
Buzzwords. Juicy AZ.
00:18:20 MATTY-O
You know all, all those all.
00:18:23 MATTY-O
New England to me, and when I when I'd start to develop my my beer and develop my.
00:18:30 MATTY-O
Brand the most important thing to me is the quality of the product that's inside the can. It's not. It's it's really. I don't want someone to drink the beer because it's from Vermont or on from Vermont. That's great. It's it's great reason, but that's that's going to be the driver here.
00:18:50 MATTY-O
The driver is great beer. I drink this beer because I really enjoy it and not because it's supposed to be. It's this hot new style or it's this Saturday. Other thing. I drink it because of the the quality and the merit of what's inside.
00:19:07 DAN
All right. Now taking a look at your menu, the one non light beer I see on there is a bourbon barrel aged Porter. Talk to us about your barreling program and what you do.
00:19:17 DAN
With that.
00:19:18 MATTY-O
Barreling program. This isn't not much. Again, it's.
00:19:23 MATTY-O
We have a an incredible brewery that is.
00:19:27 MATTY-O
Right.
00:19:28 MATTY-O
Laid out to produce some to produce IPA. And so there's, uh, we don't really try to.
00:19:36 MATTY-O
Bog our distributors.
00:19:37 MATTY-O
And our consumers down with too many.
00:19:38 MATTY-O
Skews, but occasionally we like.
00:19:40 MATTY-O
To have some fun and do some different things. So I would add the beer that you mentioned is a vanilla chocolate coconut Porter.
00:19:47 MATTY-O
That we've been brewing for for many years is actually the first beer that we.
00:19:51 MATTY-O
Can I think?
00:19:52 MATTY-O
It was back in like 2013 and.
00:19:56 MATTY-O
And from there we tried to make an imperial version of it. So that's what this what you're seeing on our menu there and we aged that and in some bourbon barrels and it really turned out fantastic. It's about just just under 11% ABV and it has all those great characteristics and layers of flavor that is it.
00:20:19 DAN
All right, final question, I'm going to send it over to Wendy Go.
00:20:20
It's you.
00:20:22 MATTY-O
Ahead. Well, no. I was just going to say, I mean we we do, we do. We have a, we have a sour program as well, but these these.
00:20:28 MATTY-O
Are very small priorities for us. It's really.
00:20:32 MATTY-O
We're very focused on on the day-to-day and the, you know, the quality consistency of.
00:20:38 MATTY-O
Our core brands.
00:20:39 DAN
Yeah, absolutely. And like I was saying final question before I send it over to Wendy, you mentioned that you feel like you're pretty much at capacity for your current distribution based on your requirements for these locations. Do you anticipate expanding further so you can expand that footprint or now?
00:20:56 MATTY-O
I my goal is is to be an inch an inch wide in the.
00:21:03 MATTY-O
So I I do want to sell a lot more beer, Dan, but I want to sell it in in the existing markets and some of them, you know, some of the the hallmarks of our of our success story has been essentially double digit growth every single year we've been in business and that continues to this day and that continues in mature.
00:21:10 DAN
That's fair.
00:21:23 MATTY-O
Markets like Vermont, we still consider and.
00:21:26 MATTY-O
Even though we have, I think we were looking at yesterday, I think we got about 800.
00:21:29 MATTY-O
Tap handles in the state.
00:21:31 MATTY-O
There's always another.
00:21:32 MATTY-O
One to find.
00:21:34 MATTY-O
There's always, there's always a new point of distribution out there. So it's our goal to continue to find those points of distribution as well as to really work with our retailers and sell more in the accounts that we're in, so.
00:21:52 MATTY-O
We are, we're doing fantastic, but there are some markets where we could always be doing better. And so we're, you know, we're looking to double down on those markets, investing heavily in resources in terms of people point of sale.
00:22:11 MATTY-O
Marketing opportunities, et cetera. So we're, you know, always looking to to continue to to grow the business, but it's going to.
00:22:19 MATTY-O
Be in that footprint.
00:22:22 MATTY-O
Our car, it's going to be very close to to our existing footprint where it is today.
00:22:29 WENDY
So Speaking of those numbers, I was going back and looking through kind of the history of the brewery, and I saw that you started out with 15,000 barrels system and then you moved out 15 barrels.
00:22:40 MATTY-O
15 barrels is the 15 barrel system. I'm sorry.
00:22:43
Right.
00:22:44 WENDY
And then.
00:22:46 WENDY
So then in 2017?
00:22:48 WENDY
You were at 50.
00:22:49 WENDY
1050 so we we we had a.
00:22:52 MATTY-O
15 barrel system and you know that was when I designed and developed the the the business plan and the kind of brewery that I wanted to to create for myself was a distribution distribution brewery, you know, at the time, a lot of people were falling in love with.
00:23:09 MATTY-O
Their with their tap rooms.
00:23:10 MATTY-O
Right. They wanted to get the they wanted to keep all that margin they wanted to sell every last drop across the bar at their own facility where where they're making the best return on their.
00:23:21 MATTY-O
Investment. I saw that as an important part of my business, but that wasn't the business that I set out to go into. I set out to go into distribution. So where?
00:23:33 MATTY-O
Most people, a lot of.
00:23:34 MATTY-O
People that are in my shoes make the mistake, in my opinion, is they they undersize their equipment, they'll start with A7 barrel system.
00:23:42 MATTY-O
It's very difficult to to scale up from A7 barrel.
00:23:45 MATTY-O
System and do it successfully and there's just not. You're not making enough beer to to really have any type of meaning meaningful distribution. So for us, we started with the 15 barrel system. We were able to do about 10,000 barrels a year on that system two years in a row, we ran out of space.
00:24:06 MATTY-O
Eventually. So we had to build another brewery where we put a 30 barrel system in and that 30 barrel system I think got us to about 50,000 barrels.
00:24:15 MATTY-O
24 hours a day and then our last expansion was a 60 barrel system, but it's it's it's incredible. It's a German brewhouse by manufacturer Rolex and it's able to do 12 turns a day. So we knock out 1260 barrel batches a day and on.
00:24:34 MATTY-O
Our 30 bell.
00:24:35 MATTY-O
And we were lucky to get 5 out so.
00:24:37 MATTY-O
We're able to.
00:24:38 MATTY-O
Produce, even though it's it's only twice the size we're able to produce a lot of beer in any given amount of time. So.
00:24:46 MATTY-O
We buy it's kind of modular so we can expand, we can add another kettle and add another louder ton and that can easily get us up to that 200,000 barrel mark, which is where I'd like to where I see the the business being growing to in the in the next three or four years.
00:25:03 WENDY
So how has an increase like that over the years changed the business plan, maybe business model or the culture of the company?
00:25:14 MATTY-O
Well, those are the most important things you got.
00:25:16 MATTY-O
To kind of keep.
00:25:16 MATTY-O
Those keep those in check and it is it's it's very difficult and you know having been in the industry for a long time and like I said I I my previous employer that I worked for, they underwent very similar type things where we're growing rapidly and and then there's definitely a change in culture.
00:25:34 MATTY-O
So I still have my hands in just about every aspect of the business right now and that I'm able to do at the size that it is. I'm very hands on owner, I love to, to get involved.
00:25:48 MATTY-O
And so we I think we've done a very good job. You know at first we were just a small startup and I had a lot of.
00:25:56 MATTY-O
Dreams. And you know what?
00:25:58 MATTY-O
Our biggest asset.
00:25:59 MATTY-O
Is our employees and so we kind of while the culture, it's gotten a little bit more corporate, but through doing that we've been able to offer.
00:26:09 MATTY-O
Incredible amount of benefit.
00:26:11 MATTY-O
Pay structure and things that are working to keep our most valuable employees and let them grow with the company.
00:26:19 MATTY-O
So we've had a lot.
00:26:20 MATTY-O
Of great success stories I've had a.
00:26:23 MATTY-O
A large percentage of the.
00:26:24 MATTY-O
People have been with me for a very long time and it's a very collaborative.
00:26:31 MATTY-O
Inclusive environment and we're very proud of that.
00:26:36 WENDY
That's awesome. I saw a video from, I think it was like 2017 where you said that you were able to use points from purchase from purchases to take the employees on a vacation every year.
00:26:48 MATTY-O
That was my thing. Yeah. I couldn't afford to to pay them well, but I I, I I ran up a lot of.
00:26:53 MATTY-O
Money on my.
00:26:53 MATTY-O
Credit cards, so I would I buy all my raw materials which they still do to this day on credit cards and?
00:27:00 MATTY-O
And then we would.
00:27:00 MATTY-O
Just you know, I'd have just millions of points and then at the end of the year we'd go on a giant trip and we went to Vegas. One year, we went to Miami, we went to Mexico a couple of times. So it's that was a early on was, it was a good perk and I'm really excited because I've been somebody.
00:27:20 MATTY-O
'S been in the industry.
00:27:21 MATTY-O
For, for, for.
00:27:22 MATTY-O
Such a long time when I first got into it, it it was my first job at Magic, actually didn't even pay me the 1st.
00:27:30 MATTY-O
Six months it was that there was a come clean kegs.
00:27:33 MATTY-O
Like we'll pay it when.
00:27:34 MATTY-O
We can and then one day they they're like, alright, we'll give you $7.00 an hour. So you know I've. I've seen both sides of it. It's really encouraging today to see how far it's come the you know people are making.
00:27:50 MATTY-O
You know good wages and it's become a very a good career. It's really become a career path, which wasn't an opportunity when I was in college, you.
00:28:01 MATTY-O
Know just just.
00:28:04 MATTY-O
Not too long ago. So it's it's great to see how far the industries come and you know.
00:28:11 MATTY-O
We're we're very.
00:28:11 MATTY-O
We're very proud to be part of it.
00:28:14 KEN
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00:29:22 WENDY
So I I don't know how to describe it. I am a consummate volunteer. So every Brewer that I talked to, I ask them what their brewery does in their community because I know that the breweries that have strong ties with their community tend to.
00:29:38 WENDY
To get a lot more support from their community. So I was reading about Team Mastermind. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
00:29:47 MATTY-O
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, one, one of the.
00:29:53 MATTY-O
One of the reasons and drivers for for me to start the company was to have an opportunity to give back to the Community and I have one son. He's 17 years old right now and unfortunately he's had well over 30 surgeries in his life and he was a make a wish recipient.
00:30:13 MATTY-O
When he was in 2010, I believe.
00:30:17 MATTY-O
And he he's just an incredible guy, but he he needs, he needs a community and services that you.
00:30:25 MATTY-O
Know are, are.
00:30:26 MATTY-O
Are meaningful to for his health. So we as a family and as an organization decided how can we give back so we.
00:30:37 MATTY-O
We launched Mastermind, which was an incredible beer that we had produced. It was. I typically don't talk about recipes and ingredients, but it's no secret. When you have this beer, it's a very Galaxy heavy beer. Galaxy was just starting to come to to the US when I developed this beer and.
00:30:54 MATTY-O
So we sold it initially in 12 ounce cans and we would we didn't have a canning unit at the time. It was like a mobile canner would come and so.
00:31:07 MATTY-O
And we would.
00:31:08 MATTY-O
Do that three weeks out of the month.
00:31:10 MATTY-O
And we would sell.
00:31:12 MATTY-O
A 12 ounce case of 12 ounce.
00:31:14 MATTY-O
Plans for $78, so it was the equivalent of a 16 ounce can and the 25% of the sales not not of profit but 25% of sale.
00:31:28 MATTY-O
From the sale, mastermind went and continues to go to the Vermont Children's Hospital for the beer that's sold in Vermont. So we've had a the we we did the.
00:31:40 MATTY-O
At the the wing where?
00:31:42 MATTY-O
The Children's Hospital is.
00:31:43 MATTY-O
We redid the the room for like the playroom, so.
00:31:48 MATTY-O
When kids are at.
00:31:49 MATTY-O
The hospital and recuperating, they can go and the the playroom was it was OK. But it wasn't great. So we we raised over $400,000 to redo the play.
00:32:00 MATTY-O
And it was really meaningful. And we have a plaque on the wall there. So I'm really excited about that. But you make a great point, Wendy. And So what we do with mastermind and what we continue to do is as we roll that out to new markets, we work with our distributor partners and we find meaningful.
00:32:21 MATTY-O
Sponsors in those markets and we will all the sales from Mastermind in that market go to a local charity. So if you go on to our mastermind page, our the consumers can see, OK, when I'm buying this in the Albany, you know in the in the Capital Region of New York State, the dollars are going to the double H.
00:32:42 MATTY-O
Or if I buy the in Philadelphia, the dollars are going.
00:32:45 MATTY-O
To chop the.
00:32:46 MATTY-O
Children's Hospital the Philadelphia so we're able to tie that in with the local community and it has definitely helped us become great partners and got a lot of its excitement around those.
00:33:00 MATTY-O
From those local markets. So we're really excited about that. So yeah, there's a list. We just pulled up a list there and there's a a list of some of the the the organizations.
00:33:09 MATTY-O
That we supported.
00:33:10 MATTY-O
And we created a fund to.
00:33:11 MATTY-O
Do this so we're able to.
00:33:13 MATTY-O
To put the money out and.
00:33:16 MATTY-O
We are. We're very the not only is it beer fantastic but but we're doing a good good thing at the same time.
00:33:24 KEN
If listening to the podcast, only version of this show, of course you can always check us out on youtube.com/better on draft, but we will have the link in the show notes, so make sure just go into.
00:33:34 KEN
The show notes to find it back to you, Wendy.
00:33:37 WENDY
So I'm definitely a sucker for any type of beer with the cause, or pretty much any cause, so I wanted to make sure that our.
00:33:44 WENDY
Listeners knew about.
00:33:45 WENDY
That so that if they are in the area where they can get.
00:33:48 WENDY
Some they can help with.
00:33:50 WENDY
That cause so you have gone on record saying that draft is the best way to drink beer and the best way.
00:33:57 WENDY
For your beer to be represented.
00:33:59 WENDY
Obviously us here at better.
00:34:00 WENDY
On drift we agree with.
00:34:02 WENDY
That you explain why you believe that for the non believers that might be listening.
00:34:10 MATTY-O
Sure. Well drafts.
00:34:14 MATTY-O
Different from package and.
00:34:15 MATTY-O
Then it's always kept cold, so with any brand, any if you have it.
00:34:18 MATTY-O
On draft, it's.
00:34:19 MATTY-O
It's that beer has been kept cold this entire life, so it's going to be a much better representation of what the Brewers intentions were in developing that beer.
00:34:32 MATTY-O
When you're out, you're having fun and I think that. So when we first started, my goal was to create a A definitely a regional draft only brewery, but.
00:34:44 MATTY-O
I was thinking that we it was potentially going to be national, the first ever national draft brand, and we were well on our way. But the pandemic hit and so we I had about $1,000,000 worth of beer out in the market, draft beer and the first day that the pandemic hit.
00:35:04 MATTY-O
And the restaurants closed. I gladly will not gladly, but I bought all that beer back and dumped it once. It's in the keg. It's it's there's nothing else you can do.
00:35:13 MATTY-O
So we brought it.
00:35:15 MATTY-O
Back it went down the drain and I was left with the realization that, you know, at the time I.
00:35:24 MATTY-O
Had you know?
00:35:25 MATTY-O
60 plus employees and their and their significant others and their families to take care of and to to to see through this and.
00:35:32 MATTY-O
We didn't really know.
00:35:34 MATTY-O
What the future held so I.
00:35:38 MATTY-O
To sit back and just wait for a draft to become a thing again. Or I could pivot our entire business and go into a can. So that was the decision that I made and we we rushed. We unfortunately had the design ready for the can just in.
00:35:56 MATTY-O
The event that we.
00:35:57 MATTY-O
Needed it. We were able to secure some.
00:36:01 MATTY-O
Some cans and away we went and we just started packaging and we got forced into a lot of grocery sets and now all of a sudden, people for the first time ever, went to the supermarket and holy cow fiddlehead IPA's here and.
00:36:21 MATTY-O
And I don't want to make light of the pandemic and and everything that happened because a lot of people really lost everything, but we were one of the, you know, rare exceptions where we were actually able to grow our business dollars over dollars 25% that year.
00:36:39 MATTY-O
By by by in a totally new market with where we didn't really have contacts or or any type of relationship. So it was really exciting and I think that speaks to the power of the brand.
00:36:51 MATTY-O
And the power of our reputation in the market.
00:36:57 WENDY
I would have.
00:36:57 WENDY
To agree with that.
00:36:59 WENDY
Now I you said that the Fiddlehead IPA was, I think you said 85.
00:37:04 WENDY
Percent of the business.
00:37:05 MATTY-O
Yes. Yep.
00:37:06 WENDY
Does it ever worry you that, like, people can be fickle, does it ever worry you to have that much invested in the one brand?
00:37:16 MATTY-O
No, not not really. I think that.
00:37:19 MATTY-O
I think there's always going to be, as I said it before, but there's always room in the market for a well balanced, accessible, quality product at a great price. So that's going to continue. I don't see people all of a sudden going from hoppy beers.
00:37:36 MATTY-O
Back to light American loggers. I mean on on occasion, I think every beer has the right occasion, but.
00:37:45 MATTY-O
As a as a whole, as I feel that the consumers pallets are definitely geared towards much more hoppy beers today. You know that next generation it's hard to say. I really, I really don't know what, what that they're very tough to figure out and you know there's a lot more.
00:38:06 MATTY-O
Competition out there these days. Obviously in beer, you know, in our in most of our regions, you know cannabis is is another distractor of consumers. So it's a.
00:38:20 MATTY-O
You know liquor as.
00:38:21 MATTY-O
Always continues to to to be very strong. So it's it's very interesting time and craft beer right now, but if you do one thing and you do it well, I think Anheuser-Busch has showed us that you you.
00:38:36 MATTY-O
You can do OK.
00:38:40 WENDY
So my last question before I pass it over to Ken, American craft beer lovers really enjoy their IPA's, but I feel like the Northeast US has an even bigger love for it. Why do you think that part of the country demands so much IPA?
00:38:57 MATTY-O
Yeah, that's a that's a. That's a good question.
00:39:03 MATTY-O
I'm not sure that I really have the answer to that, but I I I definitely do see that and I see when you start to as we continue to move more W, you start to see a lot more of.
00:39:17 MATTY-O
The breweries from the Midwest have a little lot more reach. You know, we start getting into Western New York, PA, Pittsburgh, you know that area. There's a lot more. I start to, you know, start to run into a lot more brands from from your neck of the woods. And they do tend.
00:39:34 MATTY-O
To I I.
00:39:35 MATTY-O
Would agree. They tend to have a wider.
00:39:37 MATTY-O
Portfolio of of products, but yeah, New Englanders just love their love, their hops. I guess it's it's hard to say. And I I don't know what the what the reason or cause is but.
00:39:51 MATTY-O
I'm happy.
00:39:53 WENDY
Well, the New England IPA is pretty much what broke me into my love of IPA's now, so it's working.
00:40:05 KEN
Yeah, Matt, I on your website one, I noticed you do sell disc golf discs 2. I actually noticed that Simon Lazott was over there for a lot of stuff I'm guessing late last year or?
00:40:20 KEN
Early this year.
00:40:20 KEN
Depending on when, because the video was posted in January.
00:40:23 MATTY-O
He he he was at my place and then he signed a huge contract like a week later and he won his. He won a.
00:40:23 KEN
This year.
00:40:29 MATTY-O
Tournament, his first tournament in AW.
00:40:31 MATTY-O
Also, I like to think I had something to do.
00:40:33 MATTY-O
With that, but yeah.
00:40:34 MATTY-O
This he came and filmed that a laugh I.
00:40:37 MATTY-O
Think it was.
00:40:37 MATTY-O
Two springs ago, yeah.
00:40:39 KEN
Well, my curiosity is piqued. Do you throw? Do you have more than just discraft in your bag? Since I know all of your stamped fiddle head discs or discraft.
00:40:43 KEN
I do.
00:40:43 MATTY-O
Of course.
00:40:50 MATTY-O
This craft is is I'm I I do like this craft. I'm not sponsored by by anyone. But I do love this craft and.
00:40:59 MATTY-O
So I have a.
00:40:59 MATTY-O
I have a course in my.
00:41:02 MATTY-O
And it's called and every other Wednesday I have about 40 people come out and play, and it's called the money game and we afterwards we I cook for everybody and we drink beer and they still have the IPA on every single tea box. So it's just a, it's a lot of fun.
00:41:21 MATTY-O
I'm much more of a recreational player these days, but I do have a lot of my friend Jeff Spring is the.
00:41:29 MATTY-O
Director of the Pro Tour for the PDGA, the professional Disc Golf Association in America, so I have a lot of contact. I've met a lot of the the pros, the touring pros, really great people, love craft. It's kind of like, you know, that's where, like everything meets their disc golf craft beer.
00:41:48 MATTY-O
You know, it's just like, kind of a perfect marriage and so.
00:41:51 MATTY-O
It's it's a great community. It's something I.
00:41:53 MATTY-O
Love to do and.
00:41:54 MATTY-O
Again, just it's using that to help tell.
00:41:57 MATTY-O
The story of who?
00:41:58 MATTY-O
We are and what we're all about. So we we do a couple of disc golf beers that we we have done throughout the years and we have we do we do offer discs for sale and if you're fortunate and you know if I'm in a good mood you drop me a line on one of.
00:42:17 MATTY-O
The social media.
00:42:18 MATTY-O
You know, who knows? That's that's. That's how some people have showed up at the money games and fans. So you you never know what will happen. You never know who's going to show up. We we do a we get a.
00:42:27 MATTY-O
A really wide range of players so.
00:42:32 MATTY-O
Well before we.
00:42:33 KEN
Finish the show. I do have one more question I want to ask before we get into our.
00:42:37 KEN
Final questions, where did the name Fiddlehead come from?
00:42:41 MATTY-O
Well, we just we I really wanted to, I kind of alluded to it before, you know, I didn't want to have something that was overtly Vermont. I didn't want to. I think that a lot of people make that mistake with their brand and it really kind of eventually pigeonholes them into a smaller business than than they can necessarily.
00:43:02 MATTY-O
Grow and I think people make that mistake by, you know, there's very few examples in my mind of breweries that that kind of have a geographical name and then have been able to to launch on a national brand as as a national brand. Sierra Nevada is a good example of one that has been able to do that. But but I'm hard pressed to think of many others.
00:43:23 MATTY-O
So when we were coming up with the name, we wanted it to.
00:43:27 MATTY-O
To have some regional.
00:43:28 MATTY-O
Appeal but but not kind of hit you over the head. Vermont. So Fiddlehead is it's ahead of a Fern that grows. It grows up here in the in the.
00:43:39 MATTY-O
Northeast, it's the.
00:43:39 MATTY-O
First thing that comes out in the.
00:43:41 MATTY-O
Brain and if you harvest it at at the correct time, which is a very short window, you can cook it up and eat it. It tastes kind of like asparagus, and it's it's just a fun foraging. And we like the name for a number of reasons. Like we we, you know, kind of had second fiddle in mind right away.
00:43:59 MATTY-O
And just that it.
00:43:59 MATTY-O
It can. It can go a.
00:44:01 MATTY-O
Number of different directions.
00:44:02 MATTY-O
So that that was.
00:44:03 MATTY-O
Kind of the.
00:44:04 MATTY-O
Our feeling there.
00:44:07 KEN
And with Brewbound naming you guys, the 2022 craft brewery of the year, what is next? How do you top that off? How do you continue?
00:44:17 KEN
The legacy that is fiddlehead.
00:44:20 MATTY-O
Well, the industry.
00:44:21 MATTY-O
Grew at .6% this year and and we're at 25%. So I think we're we're well on our way. We're continuing our charge and that was just by and we're we're able to do those numbers. We added one additional state this year, so we're.
00:44:39 MATTY-O
We're we're really, as I said, continuing that, you know double digit growth in every market.
00:44:46 MATTY-O
And as long as I'm able to to maintain the quality and freshness of the product, I'm willing to continue to grow it. But those parameters we're not willing to to deviate away, away from them. So it's it's got to be on our.
00:45:03 MATTY-O
Terms. That's one of the great.
00:45:05 MATTY-O
Great things about the business.
00:45:09 MATTY-O
Early on, this was kind of like when I was working at Magic Cat. I learned that they were kind of trying to grow very quickly and they they brought on a tremendous amount of money investors and that's when things really changed quickly, you know, kind of back to Wendy's that culture and things like that. So the, you know, I like to say I learned a lot.
00:45:28 MATTY-O
What to do in that my my previous job, but I also learned what not to do and one of the most important factors in I think the day-to-day operation of our business as well as kind of the the future.
00:45:41 MATTY-O
The way we set out going about doing things is that to this day I own 100% of the company. I have no investors, I have no partners, so I just do things that are good for my employees and good for the beer and and my and my distributor partners, that's it. Those are the, those are the three people that I answer to.
00:46:00 MATTY-O
And you know, we proudly dump.
00:46:05 MATTY-O
You know 5 plus batches a year out of our facility that I know you know, 99% of my competitors would put out the door. So the future for for fiddlehead is to continue to make an incredible product, deliver it at an incredible price and align ourselves.
00:46:24 MATTY-O
With incredible partners and and really.
00:46:29 MATTY-O
Have fun with and we're making beer. We're not saving lives. We're making beer.
00:46:35 KEN
And as we end the show each and every week, we ask you one final fun question before we let you show and tell us where we can get your beer and where we can find you online. We're going to start with Dan. Dan, what is your final question?
00:46:48 DAN
From Matt here. All right, this is a fun 1. Excuse me. Since he used to work at Magic Hat, we all know one of Ken's favorite.
00:46:55 DAN
Where is this magic at #9? Where the heck are beers like Magic Hat, #4 or #5?
00:46:57 MATTY-O
That's great, yeah.
00:47:03 MATTY-O
Yeah, they went. Yeah, those.
00:47:05 MATTY-O
Were not drinkable I think.
00:47:10 KEN
I think in the the hundreds of episodes we've done this final question that might have been the best final question I've ever heard. Dan, congratulations.
00:47:19 KEN
What? What's your final question?
00:47:22 WENDY
Well, I'm actually going to defer my final question to you one from the chat, Gary McCray says you were one of the first to do a gin barrel beer. Is there any other barrels you'd want to use? PS Second fiddle is baller.
00:47:40 MATTY-O
Yes, we we I do want to get more into into barrel aging we we have we just did a major we just underwent a major expansion about two years ago. We added another 30,000 square feet onto our brewery. So we've got a little bit more space but.
00:47:59 MATTY-O
You know it's it's having the bandwidth really trying to to stay focused on on your core values, you know not let a lot of the small things.
00:48:09 MATTY-O
In a way. But you know, barrel aging is something that I think is a a great representation of of the craft of craft beer. So we want to continue to work with that, but it's really cool to see some of the different types of barrels that that are out there. One time we had some barrels from.
00:48:28 MATTY-O
They were from Central America somewhere, but then these things were had been through, like literally been through some wars and and. But it was really neat to see and to get those. So we don't have any plans for, for anything, for any other types of wood right yet. But keep keep posted, we'll we'll come up with some fun.
00:48:50 KEN
Alright. And my final question for you. Obviously you mentioned that you love when you go out to grab a fiddlehead brewing beer, but other than an IPA and any of the beers that are in the IPA world, what?
00:49:09 KEN
Is a beer you enjoy to drink a style?
00:49:14 MATTY-O
Well, we're, we're we have a as as I mentioned, we have an incredible German brewhouse.
00:49:20 MATTY-O
It's a 60.
00:49:20 MATTY-O
Barrel Rolex system and the reality is those types of systems are made to make incredible louder beer. So that is that is an area where we've, I know that's near and dear to your heart.
00:49:33 MATTY-O
And so we are working on.
00:49:38 MATTY-O
A recipe right now for an authentic German style pilsner, which is the first two batches turned out pretty awesome. So we are looking at doing an extension there, but you know for for the size we're at, it's it's very it's very difficult when you start talking about you know introducing another product because.
00:49:58 MATTY-O
The most important thing for me is you don't ever, in my opinion, you don't want.
00:50:03 MATTY-O
To cannibalize your sales.
00:50:05 MATTY-O
So you know we when the when we first came out with the IPA then we we came out with a a pale ale called rarefied air, which was a great beer but.
00:50:15 MATTY-O
It was too.
00:50:15 MATTY-O
Similar to our IPA and what we were doing was just taking our IPA drinkers and giving them something new to drink, so it wasn't really.
00:50:25 MATTY-O
Furthering ourselves so we're.
00:50:28 MATTY-O
Always looking to add another style and I think that logger.
00:50:31 MATTY-O
Is a good example of that.
00:50:33 MATTY-O
The possibility exists to bring new drinkers into.
00:50:37 MATTY-O
This little head.
00:50:37 MATTY-O
Family. So that's kind of our goal as we look at new brands and extensions to to not cannibalize our core products but but bring in new products to to.
00:50:52 MATTY-O
To strengthen our brand family as a whole.
00:51:00 KEN
And that will do it for this episode of better on draft Fiddle, Head Brewing. Where can they find you? Where can they find your brewery? Where can they find you online? Where?
00:51:13 KEN
Where are you at?
00:51:15 MATTY-O
New England.
00:51:19 MATTY-O
You'll find us if you're looking for us. You'll if you can't. If you come to New England, you can't miss us. And that's the greatest thing about about our brand. We you can find our beer at the an incredible high end craft.
00:51:32 MATTY-O
Beer bar. You can also find it at Fenway Park and you can find it at Chili's. So that's what's I feel has been a real strength of our brand is the ability to to be the best beer in a number of of accounts throughout our footprint.
00:51:52 KEN
All right, that's gonna do for better. Andrea. Thank you so much for joining us. Find us on all of our social media. Is that's better on draft, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok Untapped YouTube kick Twitch. I just keep social media use. Yeah, whatever social media Myspace.
00:52:09 KEN
I think we're still on Tinder. Go find us.
00:52:11 DAN
It's like where the last swipe right.
00:52:12 DAN
Dead journal too.
00:52:15 KEN
Ah yes, both at the same time, simulcast, no matter.
00:52:19 KEN
What you think of?
00:52:19 KEN
Your beer, we think, including Medio thinks it is.
00:52:24 KEN
Better on draft, have a.
00:52:26 KEN
Good night.
00:52:28
Cheers. Cheers.