Transcript 

00:00:00 INTRO 

Whether your beer is in a bottle can or glass kick back and relax, it's better on draft. 

00:00:18 Ken 

Welcome, everybody. Episode 345 of the Better on Draft podcast. My name is Ken. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. It has been a minute since I've been on the show, taking a much needed break from the world of craft beer. And boy, did I take the wrong time to take a break because of all the news and. 

00:00:36 Ken 

Especially around the state of Michigan. 

00:00:38 Ken 

Again, that has been going on, but let's go around and say hello to everyone, see what everybody is drinking, starting with Rob. Rob. First, did you see that opening our our brand new opening? 

00:00:49 Rob 

I did. That was a very nice work on the actual editing instead of just pasting a a white block over the the the show number and calling it done wait. 

00:01:00 Ken 

Yes, yes. No, he did not see it. He did not see it. Ohh. 

00:01:01 Dan 

You didn't see it. You didn't see it. 

00:01:04 Rob 

Ohh I saw the picture. It was at me. Oh oh, that guy looked way too nice to be me. 

00:01:07 Speaker 4 

Yes, yes. 

00:01:13 Ken 

Our compliments to the folks over at pints and panels and Souder over there, does an amazing job did that Commission for us go check it out. She's got plenty of amazing artwork on her Instagram, Facebook and of course, if you want your own stuff, you can always go in there and ask her. But Rob, what are you drinking? 

00:01:32 Rob 

Today I have a strawberry pineapple wheat to start from Great Lakes brewing. 

00:01:38 Rob 

I am looking forward to. 

00:01:39 Rob 

It. 

00:01:42 Ken 

Ohh man of short words Dan, what do? 

00:01:43 Dan 

You got, you know, I just got came up with a great idea after that last Pennant. We just need to add in and our truth to it, just to just to make it complete. 

00:01:55 Ken 

That would be a wrestling joke, I believe a bingo square. 

00:01:59 Dan 

Ken got it. I've. 

00:02:01 Dan 

Got myself an old last student. 

00:02:02 Wendy 

I didn't get it. 

00:02:05 Ken 

Wendy, what are you drinking over? 

00:02:07 Ken 

There. 

00:02:07 Wendy 

So I picked up a red Zeppelin. It is an English style red ale from Burnham Brewing in Michigan City. IN it is delicious. 

00:02:18 Ken 

Great city name. Horrible state. Sorry, Robin. 

00:02:22 Ken 

Now. 

00:02:23 Rob 

Not that long ago. I love that beer. 

00:02:25 Ken 

We do love our fans over in Indiana. If you are in the chat, live, go and say hello, see what's up. Come talk to us. We have a brand new starting time a little bit later in the evening, so hopefully we'll catch a few more live viewers. But of course, if you are listening to the podcast, you can go check out the video live over at youtube.com/better on draft. 

00:02:45 Ken 

Facebook.com/better on draft and if you're watching the video, of course you could subscribe and just get the audio so you do not have to look at my face the entire show. For myself, I have a nice tall glass of old nations B 43 that I will be drinking throughout the night and enjoying. 

00:03:04 Ken 

Well, I want to go over the first topic real quick just because I think there is a lot of news that has happened within the state of Michigan. And while we are a more national and international podcast, we still, you know are close to our roots. Even though Dan is in Arizona. 

00:03:23 Ken 

And I guess it's just half of us now, me and Wendy here in Michigan, bringing it down. Well, you know, we've had a lot of lot of fans join us through the Michigan Beer Days. So there is a lot of updates to go through. Since I have been gone. 

00:03:25 Dan 

Yeah, hold on here. 

00:03:37 Ken 

Which includes brewery Nicks announced today that they are going to be closing up shop. Michigan's only gluten free brewery. They were also a gluten free kitchen, so I'm surprised that did not take off as much as it needed to. Chelsea Ale House also announced today or yesterday that they are going to be closing in May. Dragons. 

00:03:57 Ken 

Landing closed over in Saint Clair Shores at the old Shipwreck site which I I kind of figured could be happening. You got 3 breweries, a competition and everyone still loves the OG. 

00:04:07 Ken 

Right, Jayden, James is closing up shop and moving to Rockford. So you'll still be able to get your monkey butter just in a different city. Grand Rapids Brewing had a fire and closed and they are closed for good. They will not be reopening. I believe that's going to be the same fate for traffic jam and snug which had a fire a year, year and a half ago. Michigan. 

00:04:27 Ken 

Distillery is now closing their tap room. They're just gonna be for private parties. Guardian, of course, as we knew is closed. They're moving to be closer to their. 

00:04:35 Ken 

Family N Center Brewing our friends at North Center. RIP to the brewery itself. Kevin is still alive and well, but the brewery sadly is not and we did get an announcement a couple days ago that one drop will be not evicted there. The lease is not going to be renewed. 

00:04:52 

That's. 

00:04:55 Ken 

Like, I mean, I guess that's evicted, but evicted sounds harsh. Is there a better word for that? 

00:05:00 Ken 

Non renewal forcefully not being able to renewed so one drop is looking to move their facility to another area. I think we've we've talked about it a handful of times here on the show and I don't think this is necessarily a craft. 

00:05:00 Rob 

Moving, yeah. 

00:05:20 Ken 

Or bubble. I don't think the bubble is bursting. I think there is a little bit of correction, a little bit of, you know. 

00:05:28 Ken 

COVID finally catching up to a lot of breweries, obviously a little private stuff, but kind of going over to Dan and Rob. Are you guys seeing this mass number of Closings within your states? Is this a Michigan only thing? What are your thoughts? I'll start with the Rob here. 

00:05:47 Rob 

Yeah, I haven't noticed a lot of closures in Indiana, not like this like this. These I think were all in the last. 

00:05:55 Rob 

Month or two. 

00:05:56 Rob 

I've seen these these announcements, the Grand Rapids, when I was a little surprised about, and I did see that their sign just sold for $2000. 

00:06:05 Rob 

Which is interesting, but we lost. So Indiana City is is one I can remember closed very, very recently and that was the same deal where the lease was not renewed. I think that they chose not to renew because the the rate was jacked way up. 

00:06:25 Rob 

Type of a. 

00:06:25 Rob 

Thing. 

00:06:26 Rob 

So, but that's hard for a brewery. That's a lot of equipment that you got to move. It's more than just looking at the lease price, it's it's moving all that stuff. 

00:06:36 Rob 

So. So no, I guess it's the shorter answer. 

00:06:39 Rob 

To that. 

00:06:39 Rob 

It's no, I haven't seen it so much here in Indiana. Haven't seen that many breweries close, just kind of a normal number. 

00:06:48 Ken 

Dan, are you noticing anything over there in Arizona? 

00:06:51 Dan 

Yeah, more and more. Keep opening. I can't tell you a single three that's actually closed. 

00:06:56 Dan 

In quite a lot, actually. 

00:06:58 Ken 

It, and I mean we're not, we're not like closing and only closing like a lot of people who do have the Michigan brewery map app, which is a free app on your Android and iOS device. You could go in there and you could see plenty of upcoming breweries as well as breweries that have recently opened. You know there are breweries. 

00:07:17 Ken 

Like as I'm looking, I think Grand River opened up their claws and brewery. I believe one for all opened while I was gone over in Livonia, and there's definitely a few more that have come through. So yeah, we are still seeing breweries open. 6 folks are still on this process of opening WHL Salty Mac. 

00:07:37 Ken 

But yeah, you're not seeing any Closings or anything like that is what you're saying? 

00:07:41 Dan 

Now, there hasn't been a closing in quite a while actually, so it's going pretty strong out here. 

00:07:47 Ken 

Well, I guess as someone who has lived in Michigan, moved to Arizona. Why do you think Michigan is having this? Not that this domino effect of closing breweries all at one time. 

00:08:02 Dan 

I think it's over saturated. We talked about that seven years. 

00:08:05 Dan 

To go, I think there's just too many breweries and too many locations out there, too close to each other. Like you mentioned, 3 competing with each other in one location. That's not going to survive forever. 

00:08:17 Ken 

Yeah, I was. I was talking about Dragons landing, which was only a handful of miles from the Dragon Meat Brewery over in Warren, MI, but they were competing against Jamex, Baffin, and copper hop. And of course, there was that new brewery that just opened up right over by in Grosse Pointe that. 

00:08:37 Ken 

I am just someday, someday opened over there. So yeah, there is a lot of breweries that are. 

00:08:45 Ken 

Closing and opening at the same time, so I was just curious if you had maybe any more thoughts on it. If you think there's anything else that I didn't mention that might be an issue, but you still think it's saturation and just that. 

00:08:57 Dan 

Yeah. 

00:08:58 Dan 

What? When I think about the breweries out here outside of the one stretch out here, a couple of stretches I should say in the. 

00:09:05 Dan 

Like down here, you've been down there on Roosevelt Row where we went to the, I think. No, that's the second to last Brewer that closed when we went to when you were out here, places like downtown Gilbert have two or three. But and it would also all. 

00:09:18 Dan 

Spread out, there's. 

00:09:19 Dan 

Nothing really, you know, congested. They're all pretty isolated from each. 

00:09:24 Dan 

Other so it keeps it pretty, you know, has assets, they're not competing for the same customers basically is what's what I think is going on. 

00:09:36 Rob 

To some degree, so I'm not sure if it's if it's me and just the way I have changed, but I feel like there's still that COVID recovery and there's not as many. 

00:09:47 Rob 

I don't have as many opportunities to go out to destinations and you know, hit a bunch of breweries, type of a thing. Also, my liver doesn't seem to allow it anymore. I do not recover as well. 

00:10:00 Ken 

I think consumption and the changes in consumption which I I want to talk about a little bit later, but Wendy, you're with me here in Michigan. 

00:10:07 Ken 

You obviously have been to many of these breweries. 

00:10:09 Ken 

That I named. What is your thoughts? 

00:10:14 Wendy 

Well, I think it's a lot more than just the beer industry especially and and us being oversaturated. I think there's a lot of restaurants that are closing as well. I see that happen on the daily on my social. 

00:10:25 Wendy 

Videos. 

00:10:26 Wendy 

I. 

00:10:28 Wendy 

I think people are. 

00:10:29 Wendy 

Going out as much as they used to. 

00:10:32 Wendy 

Honestly, that's kind of. I mean, I've come across that too just myself. But you know, as I'm getting older, life changes and I have other priorities than going and hanging out. So I think. 

00:10:46 Wendy 

That we're kind of seeing that trend in a lot of places. If you look at some of the lists though, a lot of it is that they're moving. They're not necessarily closing. 

00:10:57 Wendy 

So you have to pay attention to that as well. 

00:11:03 Wendy 

And and I said, I've been saying for a few years now that the berries that are really going to take off and survive are the ones that get a strong foothold in their community. 

00:11:13 Wendy 

You know, you look at the berries like badge has taken off and it's because of the roots that they have put down and the ties they've made within their community and throughout the area. 

00:11:26 Wendy 

So I I think that a lot of that has to do with it as well. 

00:11:33 Ken 

Yeah. In our chat, Bill Carney is talking that, you know, Nicks is kind of niche whereas Jayden James was also a part of a bunch of wineries. And Misha Green didn't sell that much beer. Mission Green also had the issue of being across the street from Lansing Brewing Company, which is a massive facility where they have beer, spirits, wine. 

00:11:53 Ken 

They have, like corn hole patio like it is a place where they can not only hold a bunch of people so they don't have to necessarily turn anybody away. 

00:12:00 Ken 

Hey, but they also, you know, keep people there for hours with their games, you know, giant Jenga, corn hole, that kind of stuff, that kind of keeps people drinking more beer or attending that type of facility, I guess, let's kind. 

00:12:14 Ken 

Of. 

00:12:15 Ken 

When was the last time you all went? 

00:12:17 Ken 

To a brewery. 

00:12:22 Rob 

I missed trivia this week, so it's two weeks for me as I go every every Tuesday. 

00:12:25 Dan 

Two weeks. 

00:12:27 Wendy 

Yesterday. 

00:12:30 Dan 

Yeah, it's been about two weeks for me. 

00:12:34 Wendy 

Yeah, it was yesterday for me. 

00:12:37 Ken 

Do do you think that you guys might minus your like weekly thing because that could be done at a bar in any you know? 

00:12:43 Ken 

Any place it's not. 

00:12:44 Ken 

Necessarily, because it's the brewery. Do you see yourselves drinking less today than you were, say, during the pandemic or even pre pandemic? 

00:12:57 Rob 

Yeah, I was actually pretty good during the pandemic of not drinking that much. But I I think I'm drinking less these last couple of weeks. Well, I was golfing last weekend, so that one doesn't, really. 

00:13:07 Dan 

Count but I yeah. 

00:13:10 

I think. 

00:13:12 

Yeah. 

00:13:13 Ken 

I think a lot of people like when you're dealing with those types of specialty events, not everyone is necessarily upset that they're drinking or they're having a few. 

00:13:23 Ken 

Extra drinks because the the. 

00:13:25 Ken 

Event around it is why you're drinking and you're not drinking, you know, to the event for. For me, I definitely. 

00:13:33 Ken 

Have cut back a lot on. 

00:13:35 Ken 

Booze intake since like, especially the beginning of COVID, I think I was a little too wild during then. Coming coming after this show. And I'm yeah. Drinking until 3/4 in the morning. But even before like I I'm not going to breweries as much as I want to anymore. I'm not going to bars. 

00:13:55 Ken 

I'm not doing anything special like I used to go to karaoke like 4 nights a week. I would. 

00:14:00 Ken 

Go to pool halls. I would go to. You know, the casino or city club like there's plenty of places that I. No, that's that's that. That's not I I want my money. Like I want to drink my money. I don't want to like have like 5 minutes with my money. I want at least a good 1520 in. That's really pricey at one of those. 

00:14:06 Speaker 4 

This club. 

00:14:20 Ken 

Facilities, from what I'm told from what I'm told. 

00:14:25 Dan 

What you're told? 

00:14:27 Ken 

Thank you. Thank you for catching that. But but really like Dan and Wendy like even like pre COVID to now, I know we've all aged five years you know naturally, but probably 10 years just from all the stress and everything. Are you going out as much are you doing as much? Would you be doing? 

00:14:46 Ken 

As much if you didn't have other obligations. 

00:14:52 Wendy 

Although I probably still would. 

00:14:55 Wendy 

Be going out as much. If I didn't have other obligations. 

00:15:00 Wendy 

Obviously, I take Graham with me when I go a lot of Times Now, she doesn't drink beer, but she will hang out with me and it never fails. She always wants to try it and goes. 

00:15:12 Wendy 

Every time it's the funniest thing. I have so many videos. One day I'm going to do a compilation of her trying all my different beers because she always makes faces and says yuck and. 

00:15:23 Wendy 

But she never remembers that she doesn't like beer, so she always wants. 

00:15:27 Wendy 

To try it. 

00:15:30 Wendy 

So yeah, I I would probably be doing more if I didn't have those obligations. 

00:15:40 Wendy 

I I still like the travelling and the going around and seeing the different breweries and you get a feel for the area that you're in and I love how every brewery has its own unique feel. When you walk in, I just, I find it amazing that we can have so many different. 

00:15:56 Speaker 4 

Print. 

00:15:58 Wendy 

Places. 

00:15:59 Wendy 

That. 

00:15:59 Wendy 

Do the same. 

00:16:00 Wendy 

Thing. 

00:16:01 Rob 

I'm especially with you on that like a weekend where you can go or a week where you can go somewhere else and and visit a bunch of breweries. I love those outings. I love those things. I just I I don't know what it is with me lately. I haven't scheduled any of those for quite a while. Plus I usually when I was so before COVID, I was traveling for work. 

00:16:19 Rob 

A lot, a lot. A lot. 

00:16:21 Rob 

And so it was kind of built. 

00:16:23 Rob 

Into that I. 

00:16:24 Rob 

Could I could you know, stay an extra day or whatever. And and, you know, see what was going on there. 

00:16:29 Rob 

Plus the week I. 

00:16:30 Rob 

Was working so I do miss that. I was thinking more my buddies and I we used to. 

00:16:38 Rob 

Pick like a Saturday. Well, we've got trivia coming up on Saturday downtown. I think we're. We're not sure if it's this week or next week, but if it's this week then, and we will probably go down early and you know pre-game at a couple of bars near the place and. 

00:16:53 Rob 

Then eventually walk there and and do trivia and get some food, and then get home. Eventually we used to do stuff like that without having trivia as the the kind of thing that we were coalescing around. We would just go and and sometimes it's bike ride or whatever, but we haven't done any of that for a while, just it just hasn't come together. 

00:17:15 Rob 

So I don't know if other people are experiencing that. If there's just less drive to get out there or or what if just me. 

00:17:21 Wendy 

Well, I've noticed too that like a lot of my friend groups, I have a very specific group of friends that we've been friends for a very long time and we would always try to get together every couple months and we. 

00:17:32 Wendy 

Would go out. 

00:17:33 Wendy 

But now that we're getting older, you know, some have kids, some have dogs, some have grams, and we tend to get together at each other's houses. 

00:17:42 Wendy 

Now so like tomorrow, we're going to hit or Sunday, we're going to have brunch at a friend's house instead of going out for brunch. 

00:17:53 Rob 

Yeah, that sounds less COVID related and more just age-related maybe. 

00:17:57 Wendy 

Yeah. 

00:18:01 Ken 

I I just haven't really had the opportunity to see a lot of friends I when we were going out all those times, that was just kind of your your chance to catch. 

00:18:10 Ken 

Up with everyone, everyone. 

00:18:11 Ken 

Knew that on X date, like Saturdays we are at this place. This is the bar we go to. Whoever shows up that week shows up. Whoever does it doesn't. And now I haven't. 

00:18:20 Ken 

You know, seeing a lot of people in months and probably even years so. 

00:18:24 Ken 

Unless it involves some type of very specific event, like a Lions game or I heard someone gasp. 

00:18:34 Dan 

What happens when you move like close to Lake MI? So I mean, it tends to happen. 

00:18:34 

A little. 

00:18:40 Ken 

I'm. I'm just in ipsilanti. I'm not that far. 

00:18:45 Ken 

I'm still quote and I'm still closer to. 

00:18:47 Ken 

Ohio than I am lake MI. 

00:18:50 Ken 

Which isn't really saying much. That is Ohio. 

00:18:51 Speaker 4 

Sure. 

00:18:55 Wendy 

When I lived in Ipsy, we used to go to Toledo for concerts because it was closer than Pontiac. 

00:19:00 Ken 

Yeah, there there is a show on Pontiac tomorrow. I'm debating going to as well, but that's the worst part. About Pontiac though is is that it's an hour and a half away and the show doesn't end till two 2:30 in the morning and you're like. 

00:19:12 Ken 

Oh well, I'll. 

00:19:12 Ken 

Be home at 4:00, I guess and. 

00:19:14 Ken 

There goes my entire Sunday. 

00:19:19 Ken 

Yeah, I so and talking about it like don't get to see friends anymore. So I don't, we don't go out anymore and I don't know if it's necessarily an age thing cause I mean I'm getting old up there. I'm 37. 

00:19:32 Ken 

I think yeah, I am 37. So you know I I I did a little bit, I I did a little math in my head. I'm like am I 37 am I? 

00:19:34 Dan 

You have to think about it. 

00:19:39 Ken 

38 so. 

00:19:42 Ken 

I know as I get older I just don't go out as much as I used to and I don't know if it's necessarily a age thing because I've always naturally hung out with older people. 

00:19:51 Ken 

Like I you know, usually I'm the youngest person in any group. Whatever I do, whether it's better on draft, whether. 

00:19:58 Dan 

You know what? I just laughed at, sorry. 

00:20:03 

No, no, no, no. 

00:20:04 Ken 

No, it's but. But that's that's kind of. 

00:20:06 Ken 

What it is I've? 

00:20:06 Ken 

Just always, you know, hung out with older people and you know, even what I'm bowling like. I'm the youngest kid on my bowling team still. 

00:20:15 Ken 

It's just a weird thing to see, you know, all these other people still going out, whereas I'm just kind of cutting back, not going out as much and it's not for any like savings issue or monetary issue or anything like that. I just, I want to stay in and watch the new Fallout series or play a game and just. 

00:20:34 Ken 

Go to bed at a decent time. 

00:20:37 Rob 

Could be a seasonal thing too. The When the weather is nice I. 

00:20:39 Rob 

Do get out a lot more. 

00:20:42 Ken 

I mean, even even when the weather gets nicer, the only change is is that I hang outside on my patio and smoke a cigar. Like, that's the difference is that I don't. I go outside, but I don't go out. Whereas like Dan when. 

00:20:59 Dan 

Go ahead. I'm sorry, I think. 

00:20:59 Rob 

What? What? 

00:21:00 Ken 

No, no, no, no, no. 

00:21:02 Dan 

They're real real man of travel there, heading from the living room to the. 

00:21:08 Dan 

Traveling man over there. 

00:21:10 Ken 

Hey. Hey. Sometimes you know if it's raining, it's the living room to the garage. 

00:21:15 Ken 

So you know I I got. I I. 

00:21:16 Dan 

Even. 

00:21:17 Ken 

I go to the the. 

00:21:19 Ken 

East side of my home and the West side of my home. 

00:21:24 

Oh. 

00:21:25 Ken 

I think I can get a hot passport stamp at both sides too. Buy one, get one free drinks. 

00:21:31 Dan 

There you go. 

00:21:34 Ken 

I feel like it's just a me problem now. Y'all are like Ken, you're you're an old foe, you. 

00:21:40 Dan 

You're you're the youngest. 

00:21:40 Ken 

Just does nothing. 

00:21:41 Dan 

Person here and you act like. 

00:21:42 Dan 

You're 60. I mean sometimes. 

00:21:45 Dan 

I know 60 year olds I go out more than. 

00:21:47 Dan 

That. 

00:21:48 Ken 

So do I like that's that's, you know, I see one of my friends that I used to bowl with. He's retired. He's got like 4 kids, 5 grandkids and him and his wife. 

00:21:59 Ken 

Just like trekking the entire city of Detroit, going from bar to bar to bar to bar and I'm like. 

00:22:04 Ken 

How have you been to like? He's lived in the city for so long and he still goes to Ohh never seen this place before. Ohh never been. 

00:22:10 Ken 

To this place before. 

00:22:11 Rob 

Yeah, he's gotta get out of the house for. 

00:22:12 Rob 

Some quiet go to a bar. 

00:22:14 Dan 

Where it's quieter. 

00:22:14 Ken 

No, he goes. 

00:22:16 Ken 

He he goes with his his wife like him and his wife, just like transit. Like when we did. 

00:22:21 Dan 

Get away from the kids and grandkids. 

00:22:24 Ken 

I think thankfully they don't have them at the because they just live in an apartment. They sold their house in Madison Heights or whatever and just got an apartment in Detroit to not worry about upkeeping all that other **** that they have to worry about. 

00:22:36 Ken 

I was. I was going to mention because they came and saw us over at the March draft, this party for copper hop two years ago, which we have a winner. Have you have you guys been on since we've crowned our new March draft this winter? 

00:22:52 Rob 

We've not really announced it. I kind of. 

00:22:53 Wendy 

I don't think so. 

00:22:55 Rob 

I sent something in one of the teaser. 

00:22:56 Dan 

We were going to be, but then you cancelled. 

00:22:57 Dan 

It I cancelled it. 

00:23:00 

That's. 

00:23:02 Dan 

Yeah, two weeks ago, we were gonna do a show and. 

00:23:04 

I don't. 

00:23:04 Dan 

You're like Nope. 

00:23:06 Dan 

Oh. 

00:23:07 Ken 

I mean, you all come to the show after the three hours we were hanging online, but Arctic Circle Arctic Circle is our winner over in Chesterfield. Apparently we cannot get out of Macomb County for too long as they won with the runners up being Coopersville Brewing and Coopersville mix. 

00:23:24 Ken 

Again, now a lot of people who were participating in the March draft, less competition. 1/2 of them didn't know where Coopersville was. The other half didn't know where Chesterfield was. So they are definitely learning about each other. But we are going to be celebrating and doing our keg release party on their sour magazine. 

00:23:45 Ken 

Today, which is going to be May 4th, 2024, we're gonna be recording a podcast live before they open and then starting at noon, we're gonna be giving away a keg 1 pint at a time. That is their grand prize. We do hope we see you guys there, of course, while thousands of you voted, only a handful of you could get a beer. 

00:24:06 Ken 

So make sure you get there. Get in line, get early and yeah. Did you guys do any predictions or anything like that? Did you talk about March drafts on the show while I was gone? 

00:24:16 Dan 

Yeah. 

00:24:17 Dan 

The last year we had was had the final four. We went over and it was pretty good. I thought I had picked, I forget who I picked. 

00:24:24 Dan 

Out of those I was pulling was coopersville in the north. 

00:24:28 Ken 

Coopersville was in northwest. 

00:24:29 Dan 

Or no, that was the great length. 

00:24:31 Ken 

Yeah. Gray Grayling versus coopersville rolling. 

00:24:31 Dan 

Victoria length so one room free length. 

00:24:35 Ken 

Oak. 

00:24:36 Dan 

Yeah, that's the. 

00:24:36 Dan 

That I was. 

00:24:37 Dan 

Took the long shot on and it didn't pull off. 

00:24:40 Ken 

No, I thought Rolling Oak was gonna do. I was waiting for a a nice little drive up to Grayling in the summer to to go check it out. I might just have to. 

00:24:48 Ken 

Do it just. 

00:24:48 Ken 

To do it now, but Rolling Oak is a beautiful brewery. I'm trying to think of who the 4th brewery was in that competition. If it was rustic leaf, or if it was a. 

00:24:58 Dan 

It. 

00:24:58 Dan 

Rustic leave. It was. Period. 

00:25:00 Ken 

Yeah. 

00:25:02 Ken 

Yeah, that was that was a little bit of a heartbreaker for them, that's for sure. Did anybody pick? 

00:25:07 Dan 

Great guy. 

00:25:08 Ken 

Arctic Circle to be the winner. 

00:25:10 Wendy 

I think I did. 

00:25:12 Dan 

I thought Rob did too, honestly. 

00:25:13 Rob 

Yeah, I wasn't invested. I think I did. Yeah, because I like their name. 

00:25:18 Ken 

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00:25:38 Ken 

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00:25:59 Ken 

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00:26:26 Ken 

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00:26:39 Ken 

I just pieced together one of their schticks because the the Penguin obviously Arctic Circle makes. 

00:26:46 Ken 

Sense the Penguin. 

00:26:48 Ken 

But then they always did. Sour magazine day. And if you hear the inflection in my voice when I say sour magazine day, it almost sounds like the Billy Madison quote of Nudie magazine. 

00:26:59 Ken 

Where there's the Penguin in the the trips, the drunken trips that he takes while he is all over the place. So yes, we had Arctic Circle win and I'm trying to pull up the website because I believe rustic leaf had been so close. 

00:27:20 Ken 

To winning a handful of times, and they it might not have been. Ohh yeah they were. They were runner. 

00:27:27 Ken 

Up in 2018. 

00:27:28 Ken 

So I know rustic Leaf has been up there a few times. 

00:27:33 Ken 

But yeah, last year two guys was the runner up and I don't. I don't even know if they were in our competition this year. 

00:27:38 Wendy 

There. 

00:27:39 Ken 

Now that I think about it, so they didn't, they didn't have a chance to. 

00:27:41 Dan 

They were. 

00:27:43 Ken 

No, they weren't. 

00:27:45 Ken 

I'm looking at the list right now, yeah. 

00:27:47 Rob 

You have to go back to a thing that you said and point out that. 

00:27:47 

Have. 

00:27:49 Rob 

There are no Penguins in the Arctic, you know. 

00:27:52 Dan 

No, I was going to say the same thing. There are none up there. 

00:27:55 Ken 

I don't live there, so I don't know. 

00:27:59 Dan 

Well, you're gonna. You're about to have to cross Hudson Bay next week when you go out there, so. 

00:28:05 Dan 

Isn't that how far north it is? Right where there breweries. 

00:28:12 Dan 

No, I got it, yeah. 

00:28:16 Ken 

You said Hudson Bay and I'm like, what are you talking about? I could not. 

00:28:18 Speaker 4 

Yeah. Well, we've had there that part. 

00:28:22 Rob 

That's you're looking for the Northwest Passage up there. 

00:28:28 Ken 

I don't know. I mean, Dan was the one that was alive in the the Ice Age. So he probably crossed the the ice bridge up there. 

00:28:31 Speaker 4 

Yeah, yeah. 

00:28:36 Rob 

Apparently me too. 

00:28:38 Dan 

Yeah. 

00:28:40 Ken 

Yeah, I'm just. I'm. I'm. I'm the old soul here. Ken walks around in a bathrobe and slippers all day. Get my newspaper delivered to my door. Still got a got a kid. You got a kid throwing them? Oh, yeah, I'm sure you probably could. 

00:28:41 Wendy 

I think you said. 

00:29:00 Ken 

Except I don't think there's a kid anymore on a bicycle. I think it's a a car that's that's throwing them out the window. Also, while I was gone, they announced the top 50 breweries by production, which caused a little chatter over on the Facebook, better on draft page because people I think really took it personally, that it was a production list. 

00:29:02 Wendy 

You can slow. 

00:29:03 Rob 

That's a. 

00:29:21 Ken 

And not a what's the best beer list? 

00:29:24 

List. 

00:29:24 Ken 

Or what was the highest rated beer list or anything like that? 

00:29:27 

Why would they? Why would? 

00:29:28 Dan 

You get hurt over that. I don't even understand. 

00:29:30 Ken 

Well. 

00:29:30 Rob 

Those are straight up numbers. 

00:29:33 Ken 

Yeah, so people didn't understand two things. One, the numbers. 

00:29:37 Ken 

Of the the. 

00:29:39 Ken 

Breweries and how they got there. Two why Parin was there not realizing that they're owned by Monster Energy? 

00:29:46 Ken 

And three, like, you know, just a lot of, like, either. Where's bells? Where's founders? Or this list is terrible. Parent is terrible. Beer. Why is it, Holmes on there? Or why is it Old Nation on there? 

00:30:00 Ken 

And like it. 

00:30:01 Rob 

It's terrible beer, but it comes with huge volumes. 

00:30:03 Ken 

Apparently yes. 

00:30:04 Ken 

Yes, there there is one that I noticed on here and I don't know if you wanna go over or two, two main ones that I noticed one athletic brewing is a top ten brewery now craft brewery in the. 

00:30:14 Ken 

State of Michigan, which of course. 

00:30:16 Ken 

Is the largest non alcoholic only house in this country. 

00:30:20 Dan 

Aren't they? Aren't they in the state of? 

00:30:22 Ken 

California. No, there's they are not in Michigan. No. So the top 50 production in the country, not of Michigan only. 

00:30:30 Dan 

No, got you. 

00:30:30 Speaker 4 

Oh, gotcha. 

00:30:30 Ken 

OK. Yeah, that that list probably won't come out for another month while they're getting all the the rest of the information. 

00:30:37 Ken 

And then yeah, they are in California and they're in another state. I think they're on the East Coast as well. They had two breweries cause if you remember, they they're in Connecticut. They were when they came onto the show years ago, they actually had one of their owners was at the new brewery in California. 

00:30:57 Ken 

So yeah, so. 

00:30:57 Dan 

That thing. 

00:30:58 Ken 

Is massive. Yes, yes, yes, they they understood exactly what was about to happen to them and they went off with the production and everything. 

00:31:11 Ken 

So yeah, so Monster Brewing is #9, which owns Comstock Michigan's Perrin bells. Founder is not on that list, but the other one that I'd never heard of. And apparently there's a place over here that carries it. Have you guys ever heard of the brewery? Montucky cold snacks? 

00:31:29 Dan 

Yeah, you can. They make a. 

00:31:29 Wendy 

Yes. 

00:31:31 Dan 

Logger or something like that. 

00:31:33 Wendy 

Yeah, it's kind of. 

00:31:34 Wendy 

Like a Unicorn on it or. 

00:31:35 Ken 

Something. Yeah. Yeah. They make a beer and they are the 40th biggest brewery in the country. 

00:31:43 Ken 

Because of that. 

00:31:45 Ken 

I. 

00:31:45 Dan 

Out here, that's that's one of the beers they'll have. You know, if you go to a place that doesn't have much craft beer, that'll be one of the ones that they have at a lot of places. 

00:31:54 Rob 

To answer the old, I'll have a beer. Yep. 

00:31:54 Wendy 

Yeah, I've seen a lot of places with them. 

00:31:57 Ken 

Yeah. So that's like the the 2009 version of Fat Tire, where like any place that had, like, one craft tap, it was most likely fat tire. 

00:32:06 Wendy 

Yes. 

00:32:06 Dan 

Yes, usually it's in cans, so I haven't seen it as tap personally, but yeah. 

00:32:11 Wendy 

Yeah. 

00:32:12 Ken 

Yeah, I I looked up where they are and there's like one place in Ipsy that sells it, and then the next place is like Ferndale. Like, that's the next closest place that sells it over here. But I had never heard it before. I'd never seen it before. So it kind of definitely struck my eye when I was going through the list. Is there any other breweries? 

00:32:31 Ken 

I know Wendy's favorite krogers is #27. 

00:32:33 Ken 

On that list. 

00:32:35 Ken 

But were there any breweries, any surprises, anything that you're missing or seeing or anything like that or surprised to continue to see? 

00:32:43 Wendy 

It still blows my mind that New Glarus is number 11 and only sells in the state of Wisconsin. Blows my mind every single time I see it. 

00:32:43 Speaker 4 

So. 

00:32:54 Ken 

Part of me almost thought that that montucky cold snacks was only in Montana, but apparently it's a lot bigger than I even knew about, even after reading about it. 

00:33:01 

You're. 

00:33:04 Rob 

My first thought was that that athletic, with their so they they do the non alcoholic Nicks is doing, you know, gluten free stuff and you almost have to operate out of volume up comparable to athletic. If you're going to be in such a niche. 

00:33:05 Speaker 4 

So. 

00:33:23 Rob 

Yeah, just to get your product out there. 

00:33:27 Ken 

I think there's more sober, sober, curious, like the people that want. 

00:33:34 Ken 

And alcohol free beer can still drink alcohol, whereas the people that want gluten free beer can only drink gluten free beer. So I think there's definitely a issue of want versus need when. 

00:33:48 Ken 

It comes to those two. 

00:33:49 Ken 

But in the same token I I agree that I I felt like. 

00:33:54 Ken 

Giving the ability you know prior to the whole non alcoholic thing like there was a handful of massive bars over in Dearborn that were alcohol free, that a lot of people went to because they knew they were alcohol free, you know, a little bit of culture. And then of course, people coming into Dearborn just to do, you know, to have the food. 

00:34:14 Ken 

Have the non alcoholic drinks. So I think that is a big thing, whereas gluten free gluten intolerance and I. 

00:34:21 Ken 

Mean these are. 

00:34:23 Ken 

Brewery Nicks is for the people who are massive, celiacs like that can't even smell gluten. 

00:34:28 Ken 

Without bad things happening. But Dan, I think you've tried to get in a word edgewise a few times. 

00:34:35 Ken 

What are you going to say? 

00:34:36 Dan 

Well, real quick with the gluten free thing, I think finally a lot of people have dropped off that FAD where they think that they need to. 

00:34:42 Dan 

Not have gluten. 

00:34:43 Dan 

Versus it's really one of the people with celiacs that should that can't have it. So I think that's kind of finally tapered down, but what caught my attention and correct me if I'm wrong, I noticed Kona out in Kona. 

00:34:56 Dan 

Was on there and I don't they brew their own beer. I'm not quite sure how they ended up on that list because I feel like they only brew for the state of Hawaii, but maybe I'm wrong. 

00:35:06 Rob 

I thought they had. 

00:35:07 Rob 

An A mainland version as well. 

00:35:10 Dan 

They do, but it's owned by someone else. I thought I could be completely wrong here. 

00:35:18 Dan 

Yeah, there's New Jersey, something like that. 

00:35:23 Ken 

There is I'm. I'm looking at the the Kona website and like information and stuff they do. However distro in 36 States and 10 countries. 

00:35:36 Ken 

And it looks like at this time it might only be the handful of breweries on the islands themselves. But yeah, I'm not seeing anything that's outside of Hawaii, like in the main 48. 

00:35:51 Ken 

Like you were saying. 

00:35:53 Ken 

But they were also part of they they were part of the the Craft Bureau alliance at one point, which I don't think they are. 

00:35:53 Dan 

Yeah, I'm curious. 

00:35:59 Ken 

Anymore. 

00:36:02 Ken 

So I think that is part of it, cause that had, like Widmer Red Hook, Portsmouth. So maybe that could. 

00:36:09 Dan 

Ohh, that's right. Yeah, I forgot about that too. 

00:36:14 Ken 

Have been the. 

00:36:14 Ken 

Thing where you would have saw like craft Beer alliance and saw those other cities and states but for. 

00:36:22 Ken 

Kona itself, it looks like Kona just manages Hawaii and of course ships it out. 

00:36:28 Ken 

To other places. 

00:36:30 Rob 

I'm surprised Minhas is so low. They used to at least make all the Kirkland loggers. 

00:36:38 Rob 

And that alone has got to. 

00:36:39 Rob 

Be huge volume. 

00:36:40 Dan 

Filthy 50. Hell yeah. 

00:36:43 Ken 

Yeah, Mint Minhas is always been like, cause that's that's a a Canadian owned technically company because the the, the lady that owns Minhas is also on. 

00:36:56 

The. 

00:36:57 Ken 

Canadian version of Shark Tank Dragons den. 

00:37:04 Ken 

Which might be the actual like the American version of, you know, Earth Dragons. That's the shark tanks, the American version of Dragons that there we. 

00:37:12 Rob 

Of the British Dragon sounds. 

00:37:13 Ken 

Go. 

00:37:13 Ken 

Figure it out. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure we all steal from each other. Let's be honest. 

00:37:15 

Yeah. 

00:37:17 Rob 

Here. Yeah, right. They're set up in Calgary. It was a big deal when they. 

00:37:23 Rob 

Opened up operations in in the US and there was a huge like kerfuffle about it being a tax dodge and stuff. And I was in Calgary when all that stuff was going down, just on vacation. 

00:37:34 Rob 

But it they I've been to Minhas. In Wisconsin, it was a pretty neat tour. They were interesting to tour, but yeah, their their volume, just the amount that they can produce in such a small facility and that the Monroe location is pretty impressive. 

00:37:51 Rob 

I'm surprised that it's that low like they are a huge contract Brewer. 

00:37:56 Ken 

Yeah, I think they have. Well, one, if you have the ability like if you have the production, you could just run the tanks all day like you can run two to three batches a day pretty easily as long as you have the space. 

00:38:08 Ken 

To hold it. 

00:38:10 Ken 

That's obviously most likely the the big issue is not necessarily brewing the batches as much as holding the batches. 

00:38:15 Ken 

Where you gonna hold them? Where you gonna store them? To let them, you know, get made for 30 days. 

00:38:22 Ken 

But yeah, and hassles on there. Is there any other breweries that kind of just stick out to you while you're looking? 

00:38:29 Ken 

At the list itself. 

00:38:31 Rob 

Point. 

00:38:31 Rob 

Brewery Stevens Point brewery. They make point beer, which was my first craft beer that I ever really had. My dad always used to bring it back from Wisconsin whenever we went up there, so I would have a bottle every once in a while at home, but that my wife just visited them and they've been on my bucket list for ages. But she went up there, she visited them and she visited. 

00:38:52 Rob 

Central waters, which is the same area. 

00:38:56 Rob 

But Point Brewing is another. I mean, they're a big contract Brewer. They do their own stuff, but they contract brew for other people too. So I'm not surprised they're on the list. I am kind of surprised they're only at 19. 

00:39:14 Ken 

Wendy. Dan. Anyone else? 

00:39:18 Dan 

Now, nethanel surely stuck out. It was just like going one I was like, oh, that's actually pretty interesting. 

00:39:25 Wendy 

I am a little surprised real gails is still on there. 

00:39:30 Ken 

Hi. 

00:39:30 Wendy 

Like we see them a lot anymore. 

00:39:33 Rob 

Yeah, it's just around Portland. They have so many brewpubs could get them on the list. 

00:39:40 Wendy 

There could be. 

00:39:43 Dan 

Yeah, I can see you the. 

00:39:44 Ken 

I promise. 

00:39:44 Dan 

Last time I saw a rogue in a store. 

00:39:47 Dan 

Thinking about it now. 

00:39:49 Ken 

I I definitely seen Rogue, but I just. 

00:39:52 Ken 

Don't buy dead cause. Didn't they go through the whole like dead Guy brand change kind of like when? 

00:40:02 Ken 

What's the Voodoo Ranger started doing all the Voodoo Rangers and and stuff? 

00:40:08 Ken 

I feel like that was a thing like they had like 4 different dead guys and everyone got mad because like, it wasn't their dead guy anymore. It was. 

00:40:15 Rob 

I think they I think they still do that and I think 2 dead guys have won and they're very different beers. 

00:40:24 Dan 

Yeah, there was of the same beer. They're not Highlanders, that's for sure. 

00:40:26 Dan 

Experience. 

00:40:28 

Well. 

00:40:32 Ken 

There you go. I see dead Guy Colson Club, which is dead. Guy IPA. Dead guy. Pills. Dead guy. Pale and dead guy ale. 

00:40:41 Ken 

So there was 4 dead guys at. 

00:40:43 Ken 

One point different dead. 

00:40:44 Ken 

Guys. 

00:40:46 Ken 

At least Buddha Ranger keeps it in the IPA category. 

00:40:50 Dan 

Yeah, I was gonna say they just do different variants and everyone buys them. 

00:40:54 Rob 

Yeah, bells stuck to the IPA's too, with all their hearted variants. So many of those now. 

00:41:00 Rob 

I want to. 

00:41:00 Wendy 

Tell you I really like the new the Voodoo Ranger Peach tea. 

00:41:04 Wendy 

Is delicious. It's super sweet like. 

00:41:07 Dan 

Peach tea. 

00:41:08 Wendy 

It is. It's a hard tea, but it's it's really good. I don't mind it. I mean, I don't think I could drink like, two of them. No, actually not. It is 100% RTD hard. 

00:41:13 Rob 

And is it an? 

00:41:14 Rob 

Feel you're very kind. 

00:41:20 

T. 

00:41:22 Dan 

It's the other branch. Now they know everyone notices the brand now they it's gotta make more different kinds. Yep. 

00:41:30 Ken 

Before we kind of get into RTD's and stuff a little bit more, Rob, you got some beer from Great Lakes Brewing. Give us a little rundown of what you. 

00:41:39 Ken 

Think about it. 

00:41:41 Rob 

So I got the strawberry wheat from well, this, that's the one I'm currently drinking from Great Lakes. I got three others and I really wish I had them all in here with me so I could remember them, but they released. 

00:41:54 Rob 

Ohh the the the monster, the Great Lakes monster. Like the best monster. I am loving the strawberry wheat I it has got a lot of strawberry flavor and I really like that. And it tastes like real strawberries. So that's more strawberry than we, but it's it's quite delicious and it's it's funny that I got beer from them because. 

00:42:14 Rob 

Theirs was the 15 pack that I took golfing with me last weekend, so I've actually been drinking rather a lot of Great Lakes for, you know, over the past. 

00:42:21 Rob 

Week or so. 

00:42:26 Ken 

Perfect. So the one thing I wanted to talk about because we discussed a little bit in the you know what's going on with all the breweries and y'all calling me old and 60 year old and a robe and slippers there. There's been a handful of studies. Obviously, as COVID hit people. 

00:42:44 Ken 

Started to drink. 

00:42:45 Ken 

More because they were drinking at home. They were spending almost the same amount of money at home as they were outside, which of course gets you more beer and alcohol. 

00:42:52 Ken 

Well, at home, but as more people are coming out of COVID and they are starting to go out more and stuff, people aren't drinking as much. But the people who are drinking are drinking more. So not only do we have an issue of heavy drinkers going out there, but a lot of people slowing down and killing it. 

00:43:14 Ken 

As well as Gen. Z, right now, nearly half of Gen. Z over the age of 21 has yet to come consume alcohol, whereas typically that rate is around 3 out of 10 as generations do age into the alcohol industry. 

00:43:30 Ken 

And there is another interesting stat that I saw that 1/4 of drinkers in total will try will have tried to dough dry January back in 2024. But in that quarter when you get into like the cross tabs like 46% are rarely drink already and 41% drink only one to five drinks a week. 

00:43:49 Ken 

Which brings you at 13% of. 

00:43:53 Ken 

Drinkers that drink, you know, at least one drink a day on average. So with this, the trends of Gen. Z going for different options, whether it's RTD's, whether it is mocktails or alcohol spirits, more premium. 

00:44:13 Ken 

Alcohol. Different options like do you think this is going to cause an issue for? 

00:44:18 Ken 

Or breweries in the future. Or do you think this is kind of like? 

00:44:22 Ken 

A. 

00:44:23 Ken 

You know, as Dan kind of said. 

00:44:24 Ken 

Like a fad? 

00:44:25 Ken 

With the the people with quote UN quote gluten deficiencies, that didn't actually have them. Not to say not everyone has. There's people who do have it, not as many people as. 

00:44:32 Dan 

Yeah, just. 

00:44:37 Ken 

Claimed. 

00:44:39 Dan 

Yeah. The ones that pretended to be, you know, this is anecdotal, but it's a place I go to on the weekends. It's a dive bar place, but they have karaoke and everything people in there, you know, and we joke about my age. You know, I'm in my mid 40s. These people that are up there are definitely in their early 20s to mid 30s. 

00:44:58 Dan 

So I don't know if it's everywhere unless I see the same thing down here at the breweries, you know that are downtown. They're packed with people, Twenties, 30s and 40s. So I don't know. Again, all anecdotal, but what I've seen it, it doesn't seem to be an issue. 

00:45:14 Rob 

I've got more anecdotes. One of the guys on my trivia team is Jen Z. Like he's actually my son's age, roughly just a friend from a game and we've, we've been playing trivia for maybe a year now. Yeah. And he was. So that's at a bar and he. 

00:45:31 Rob 

Does. 

00:45:31 Rob 

Drink, at least at the bar and then when we go out, sometimes on weekends and. 

00:45:36 Rob 

But my son was just visiting us for the eclipse. We were in the path of totality here. It was very exciting, very cool. And Speaking of big traveling, well, they came down from Madison, WI. But then we walked across the street to the soccer field and watched from there, which was pretty cool. But I can tell you those five gens ears do drink. 

00:45:58 Rob 

I don't know if it's cause they were here for the eclipse you. 

00:46:00 Rob 

Know it was a. 

00:46:00 Dan 

Party, but yeah, well, it was like it was night time. So you had to knock back like, 5 beers during those 4 minutes. 

00:46:07 Ken 

That's straight now, Wendy and I. If you haven't listened to the Dingus Day episode with Eastern Market, Brilliant went over to Dingus Day over in eastern market and it felt like it was a much older crowd over there. I don't know if you felt the same way, but everyone that I saw there. 

00:46:24 Ken 

Was in their late 30s, early 40s and then of course, you know Fifties, 60s, and 70s. It felt like with the some of the people that we saw celebrating Dingus Day, when you go out, Wendy, and you go out and do, you know you're supernatural or wherever you go, are you seeing younger people, older people, like, I, I personally am not seeing it. 

00:46:45 Ken 

But I probably aren't paying as much of attention as I think I am. 

00:46:51 Wendy 

I see a big mix when. 

00:46:52 Wendy 

I go out. 

00:46:54 Wendy 

And at least here, when I when I go out of state, I'm usually at berries at weird times, but when I go out here, I'm it's usually in the evening, so there's a lot more people and I don't think that like the. 

00:47:10 Wendy 

The breweries are so full. 

00:47:12 Wendy 

There's a lot of people in there and there are so many different aid troops. I see young people. I see older people. 

00:47:20 Wendy 

I don't know that I believe that they're just not drinking. They might be choosing to. 

00:47:26 Wendy 

Drink less and do other things. 

00:47:30 Wendy 

I don't really know anybody. 

00:47:32 Wendy 

That doesn't. 

00:47:34 Wendy 

Drink at least every now and then, like I know people who say they don't really drink, but they will have a drink when they go out. 

00:47:41 Wendy 

With their friends. So. 

00:47:43 Wendy 

Yeah. 

00:47:45 Ken 

Maybe it's the definition of drinking, like when we talk about going out and drinking. We might be referring to going out, you know, 3-4 nights a week to karaoke, to trivia to whatever else, you know, industry night, that kind of stuff. Like are we? 

00:48:00 Ken 

Be going. Are we just going less? Are they going less? So we don't hear it. Cause I I think about like all the days that. 

00:48:07 Ken 

I used to. 

00:48:07 Ken 

Drink way too much and then you know, obviously it go to with with. 

00:48:13 Wendy 

Class in the morning. 

00:48:14 Ken 

Yeah, like class or work or whatever. Like I I'd go to like auggies RIP auggies. That's a place that closed recently, apparently, and I would go in and have, like, 4 bombas for 12 bucks of Guinness. 

00:48:28 Ken 

And just that was that was kind of the night, whereas now like I could, I could never imagine a. 

00:48:33 Ken 

Place getting that. 

00:48:34 Ken 

Much gas for that cheap be there. Maybe that's that's a thing to think about, too, is that people are, you know, they were already spending money on premium, and now they're just like, well, I'm only going to spend on the little premium that I want to. 

00:48:48 Ken 

But I think maybe we're conflating what we used to think is drinking, like going out and having a beer with dinner wasn't drinking to us. I was just having a beer with dinner, whereas now, like, that's considered drinking as having a beer with dinner or having a drink with dinner. 

00:49:04 Rob 

Yeah, that could definitely be part of it. I'm I'm thinking I'm going through my head of the various places I I frequent, or at least I'm familiar with around Indianapolis, regularly familiar with and like. So we've got books and brews in Brownsburg which I I go to pretty regularly, and that one's a mix because they allow they've always allowed. 

00:49:24 Rob 

Place because they've got food and stuff. 

00:49:25 Rob 

So that one you get the really young kids, but they're not drinking because they can't, you know? But their parents are happy to go because. 

00:49:33 Rob 

They can drink. 

00:49:34 Rob 

I mean the food there is adequate enough to get, you know, the legally minimum type of a thing. But the food there is good enough. So it it keeps everybody happy. 

00:49:45 Rob 

Then we've got metazoa downtown. 

00:49:48 Rob 

And when they went in, there wasn't much around them. There was just an office park, very large pharmaceutical company based in Indianapolis is right there, basically across the parking lot from them. And shortly after they opened there, they huge condos went up in the area, and they're full of young kids. 

00:50:07 Rob 

You know, recently out of college type of a thing and metazoa is just always full of of young kids. They've got the dog bark so they. 

00:50:16 Rob 

People who live in condos can have dogs and take it over to the dog park, and it's just they seem really well set up and situated for the younger crowds. There's some of us olds in there too, but it's mostly young kids. 

00:50:32 Dan 

Some of us called. 

00:50:34 Wendy 

I refuse to call myself an. 

00:50:35 Wendy 

Olds. 

00:50:36 Dan 

Kenzie, the old person here. 

00:50:39 Wendy 

I'm pretty sure he's our youngest. 

00:50:42 Ken 

I I I am by by a good amount of years too, that's for sure. Yeah, I might be physically younger than y'all, but apparently my mentality has me as a forgotten generation. 

00:50:45 Dan 

Yeah. 

00:50:57 Wendy 

She does have a. 

00:50:58 Wendy 

Lot of get off my line moments. 

00:51:00 Ken 

I I do. I do. I I can't even deny that. I'm still we've we I shared a few things on Facebook just to just to poke you a little bit, Wendy. The the whole flight anti flight thing. 

00:51:13 Rob 

I think Venezuela does a 12 last flight. 

00:51:17 Ken 

And I I I feel like more and more, more and more people are coming onto my side these days. It seemed non flight. 

00:51:18 Dan 

You still there? 

00:51:25 Wendy 

I don't agree with that. I what I get out of everything that we've been talking about online is that it's everything has a time in its place and every single one of those people. 

00:51:34 Wendy 

Have been like. 

00:51:36 Wendy 

There are times when I want a flight. 

00:51:38 Wendy 

But there are times when I don't think it's appropriate. 

00:51:42 Wendy 

Which is nothing that we haven't said as somebody who is pro flight. 

00:51:48 Wendy 

I'm not going to order a flight when. 

00:51:49 Wendy 

There's. 

00:51:50 Wendy 

100 people waiting in line. 

00:51:53 Wendy 

But. 

00:51:54 Wendy 

If there's nobody there, why wouldn't I just get the flight so they can do it all at once and then go about their business instead of keeping having to keep coming back to me? 

00:52:02 Wendy 

Does it make any sense? 

00:52:05 Ken 

Well, the the big change to of craft beer is, is that there's a lot less servers. There are a lot less, there's more bar service or like funneled bar service you might call like with Eastern Market Brewing, where you kind of just walk up order and go sit down with your beer like they hand you the beer and you go. 

00:52:25 Ken 

Almost like a. 

00:52:26 Ken 

Barista like a coffee shop. 

00:52:27 Wendy 

I think that's normal for most berries though. 

00:52:31 Wendy 

A lot of the breweries that I've been to are like that. It's not just new like they've always been like that. 

00:52:37 Ken 

I I think maybe the big thing cause I always sit at the bar, so I never necessarily I guess realize it until all the times that I've gone out with like my fiance and I realized how we're ordering the beer a little bit more. But again, that's just. 

00:52:51 Dan 

Because I typically. 

00:52:52 Ken 

Sit at the bar as opposed to sit at a table. 

00:52:57 Ken 

What? What did I miss while I was gone? What else? What? What did you guys talk about? I didn't listen to any of the shows. So you guys could have talked so much. ****. The only thing I listened to was the great, great collaboration that Rob put together for us. 

00:53:11 Ken 

Of you all. 

00:53:12 Dan 

Because we can't figure out the ending. 

00:53:13 Ken 

Fumbling and fumbling and ending that I've said 400 times plus on the show. 

00:53:19 Wendy 

I always want to do the beginning instead of the end. 

00:53:23 Wendy 

Always. I don't know why. 

00:53:25 

I. 

00:53:26 Ken 

What are this any good topics any. Anything that I should know about? 

00:53:31 Dan 

I'd have to go back and listen, but. 

00:53:32 Speaker 4 

Hello. 

00:53:34 Rob 

I got to. I told the full story of my beer butts from hell. It wasn't actually from hell. It it turned out great fun. It was a huge story where the bridge was out and we had to. 

00:53:43 Rob 

Take back. 

00:53:43 Rob 

Roads and to a brewery that had just opened or hadn't really just opened it. It was like we were the first visitors and. 

00:53:51 Rob 

That was pretty fun. 

00:53:54 Rob 

We talked about gear cities. We've been to places, Ubers have dropped us. That shouldn't have. 

00:53:55 Speaker 4 

So yeah, what is what is the. 

00:54:01 Ken 

Wouldn't the bus have reached out to that brewery before showing up like, hey, we're coming to your brewery with X amount of people. 

00:54:07 Rob 

Ohh they they were expecting us. 

00:54:09 Dan 

Driver was drinking. 

00:54:10 Rob 

He was he was super excited that we were coming because we were basically the first tour he was having at the new facility. 

00:54:17 Ken 

Wait, did you say Uber X driver was drinking or no drinking? Ohh well, because one of you mentioned like places where Ubers dropped you off. I I think there's. Yeah. 

00:54:21 Dan 

No, the you know the bus driver was drinking? Yeah. 

00:54:29 Dan 

Oh yeah, Rob tried to break into some place in South Africa. Apparently, that's right. 

00:54:35 Ken 

Yeah. 

00:54:36 Wendy 

I think they told the story about. 

00:54:38 Wendy 

Paying Uber driver in Indianapolis? That was. 

00:54:41 Rob 

Yeah, the this red ripple one. 

00:54:42 Wendy 

So hi, I had to give him directions. 

00:54:46 Rob 

And then he wouldn't stop because there was. 

00:54:47 Rob 

A cop there? 

00:54:48 Wendy 

Yeah, he wouldn't stop at the place he was taking us to because there was a cop. So he dropped us like a. 

00:54:53 Wendy 

Block and a half down. 

00:54:57 Ken 

Back in the Wild West, days of Uber, where the Uber drivers would purposely take you the long way to get to your. 

00:55:04 Ken 

Nice. I remember back when I lived in Detroit. I can't remember where I got picked up, but I remember going on 75 N 75, S, 94 E and 94 W and I'm like I was just in like midtown, like I wasn't far away. 

00:55:24 Ken 

How how did this take this long? I I have one question for y'all. 

00:55:30 Ken 

Before we kind. 

00:55:31 Ken 

Of close up shop, unless you guys have any other topics but open in talks for back seat passengers of an Uber, thumbs up, thumbs down. 

00:55:44 Dan 

No, you need a chauffeurs license for that. So thumbs down, yeah. 

00:55:47 Ken 

Do you really? 

00:55:49 Ken 

Ohh now I. 

00:55:50 Dan 

Feel bad? Yeah, so thumbs down. 

00:55:52 Wendy 

Yeah, it comes down because it'll make our. 

00:55:53 Dan 

You know a lot of. 

00:55:56 Wendy 

Uber paster are you so high? 

00:55:56 Rob 

They already feel sorry. 

00:56:00 Ken 

I can't tell you how many times I've brought a A can of beer or a glass of beer or something like that into an Uber. I mean, I I did it just as recent as. 

00:56:08 Ken 

When we were in San Antonio. 

00:56:12 Ken 

A year and a half ago. 

00:56:12 Dan 

I think you know, they probably won't care, but it's bad news if you get pulled over, you know, probably a lot of them will care. But it's yeah, just for the driver. 

00:56:17 Ken 

No, no, no, that's. 

00:56:22 Ken 

Yeah. No, that's there's a difference between knowing it's like bad and the driver like like if the driver said, hey, don't do that. Obviously I'm not going to do it. But if knowing now that it's not necessarily a good idea, I'm probably not gonna do it anymore. Kind of like the whole drinking in the parking lots of breweries. 

00:56:44 Ken 

For opening, you know, beer releases like we know this is illegal now, so I will never participate in it again, whereas something I just don't care. Ohh yeah. I saw a post recently of Ascension and they always have. 

00:56:53 Dan 

Anymore. 

00:57:00 Ken 

The the the patio banister filled with all the empty bottles and stuff all across. 

00:57:06 Dan 

The. 

00:57:06 Ken 

Nice, but I mean, it's not like you're they're they're hiding it in a a parking a parked car or something like that. Or people are, like, hunting, huddling over, tailgating like they're doing it right in the open. That someone could see. 

00:57:17 Ken 

Them right off of. 

00:57:18 Ken 

The the main road, but if they don't care then. 

00:57:22 Speaker 4 

I don't. 

00:57:23 Ken 

You know, that's their license, not mine. I know this can end their license, so I'm not going to participate and be that person. Just like now that I know if people don't take tokens at Michigan brewery festivals, like you can get in a lot of trouble by not. 

00:57:37 Ken 

Taking the tokens. 

00:57:39 Ken 

Although we I Oh yeah, that's the pipe. And black I think. 

00:57:42 Ken 

Got it up to us where? 

00:57:44 Ken 

If, like MLC person is there and they purposely don't give you a token like they could shut down the entire festival. 

00:57:51 Ken 

After one incident. 

00:57:53 Dan 

Oh wow, like that's. 

00:57:56 Ken 

That is crazy to me, but after that I'm like, alright, I'm just going to make sure, especially at the Michigan Guild festivals, like it's $0.50 an extra token like it's not. 

00:58:05 Dan 

Just hand them pennies and it works. 

00:58:09 Speaker 4 

It's it's not that. No, no, no. You still. You still got to hand them kendo sold it. 

00:58:10 Wendy 

No, that's not what you knew. You did not know that here at better at draft. 

00:58:18 Ken 

I I did a little bit, but I guess Wendy is right. I should have made sure. 

00:58:23 Ken 

To to have said something. Yeah, you. It's. It's something where the the other festivals, like when we went to two years ago. So last year at the brutality festival at the Michigan Science Theater, Michigan Science Center, they didn't care about tickets or anything. This year they did. But after like 3 minutes. 

00:58:42 Ken 

Nobody cared about tickets. 

00:58:46 Ken 

So. 

00:58:48 Ken 

You know, Guild festivals obviously have a different license than a regular beer festival. When I say like regular, like, you know, there's it's not a Guild. So there's different rules that you have to follow. Also big rules. Bernie Foot is now the Bernie Foot Beverage Festival or something like that. Like it's not a beer festival anymore. It's a cocktail, beer, cider, wine, everything. 

00:59:08 Ken 

Test, so that'll be interesting to see this coming year great festival. If you've never been to it. 

00:59:18 Speaker 4 

What's that, Wendy? 

00:59:19 Wendy 

There's a lot. 

00:59:20 Wendy 

Are they coming on the show to talk about this year? 

00:59:22 Wendy 

There's a lot of changes, I'm. 

00:59:24 Ken 

I'm sure we can get them on. Obviously the gentleman that we talked to a few times ago is no longer the President of the Lakeshore Guild. So it is a whole different thing. That's why I think that's why you also got the reggaeton music last year as opposed to the the weird. That's what I call late 90s, early 2000s hit mix of filter. 

00:59:43 Ken 

Everlast lit Limp Bizkit cover band. 

00:59:49 Ken 

And a few others that's going to do it for us for this episode 345, we will be back in two weeks. That's right. Two weeks at 8:30 PM Eastern, our brand new start time. Thank you to everyone who joined us in the chat. As I'm kind of going through, we got Bill Carney, Chris Connor, we've got Brian Lesniewski. 

01:00:08 Ken 

We've got the half asked beer review over on YouTube and of course our friend our #1 fan. 

01:00:17 Ken 

Two, it's microg. 

01:00:18 Dan 

Ohh yeah, toots. 

01:00:20 Ken 

Good old toots microg his bag. He is drinking. A2 Ties lime light lager, saying happy Friday to us. Thank you so much for joining us. Are you guys ready? Pencils take notes. Because no matter what you think of your beer, we think it's. 

01:00:33 Speaker 4 

Ohh yeah. 

01:00:38 Ken 

Better on draft. Have a good night. 

01:00:41 Wendy 

Cheers.