Handbag Designer 101 With Tanner Leatherstein

Emily Blumenthal 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast with your host , emily Boomenthal , handbag designer expert and handbag fairy godmother , where we cover everything about handbags , from making , marketing , designing and talking to handbag designers and industry experts about what it takes to make a successful handbag .

Emily Blumenthal 0:24

Welcome , tanner Leatherstein to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast . So happy to have you .

Tanner Leatherstein 0:29

Thanks for having me , thanks for the invitation and taking the time . I am happy to be here .

Emily Blumenthal 0:34

Good you should be . Listen , your rise to fame is pretty wild , so why don't you give a quick overview of who you are and what you are and what you do , and then we'll get to the roots and the weeds as to how you got to where you are ?

Tanner Leatherstein 0:47

Absolutely . Tanner Leatherstein is my personal brand . It's not my actual name . That's usually the first question to clear . That would be too good to be true , doing what I do and having that name and last name . So my real name is Vulcan and I was born in Turkey and I think it was about 2009 . I moved to the United States out of just a brand .

Emily Blumenthal 1:10

Business , but for business school right .

Tanner Leatherstein 1:12

No , no , it was a green card lottery that I didn't even apply . Someone did for me and it was who applied for you . So that was a company . I applied about three , four years prior to that and they said I checked the box for them to make it five years in repetition . I forgot ?

Emily Blumenthal 1:30

Oh it's . You continue to apply every single year .

Tanner Leatherstein 1:32

Yes , and then first year I was waiting and then it didn't happen . I forgot about all that . Yeah , yeah To three or third or fourth year I received this email saying that I want a green card . I was like , oh , let me read this email . How they want to scam me and all that stuff . That's how it started . So , which makes sense . That's how I came here and until that point I was all in , led there . I was born into a family on tenor in Turkey and I was running behind my father in business since I was eight , nine years old .

Emily Blumenthal 2:01

Can I ask you something about that ?

Tanner Leatherstein 2:03

Yeah , absolutely .

Emily Blumenthal 2:04

So where in Turkey are you from ?

Tanner Leatherstein 2:07

Çanakkale is my hometown , which is the ancient Troy region in the northwest coast . It's right across Greece and it's like four or five hours drive from Istanbul . That's where I grew up , that's where we had our tenor .

Emily Blumenthal 2:20

So you grew up in one area and then the family had to drive back and forth to get to the tenor , or you moved from Turkey .

Tanner Leatherstein 2:27

No , we were all in Çanakkale , in the tenor town . We were living there , but most of our business was in Istanbul . So basically we were going and coming back from Istanbul once a week . It was like just we had the whole family in both places . Mostly my dad , but pretty much every other week we were going as well , just for the weekend and things like that . So it was a lot of traveling .

Emily Blumenthal 2:48

How many siblings do you have ?

Tanner Leatherstein 2:50

I have a brother . He's still in Turkey and currently my brand , pegay . He's doing the manufacturing and crafting in the same building that used to be our tenor . Now we turned it into a workshop .

Emily Blumenthal 3:03

Well , you knew the owner right Of the buildings .

Tanner Leatherstein 3:05

Yes , yes , yes .

Emily Blumenthal 3:06

Difficult .

Tanner Leatherstein 3:07

Yes .

Emily Blumenthal 3:08

So was it understood that you would go into the family business per se , or did you want to ? Or was it like hey , this is Vulcan , like welcome to the business ?

Tanner Leatherstein 3:18

I was dying to . My dad really enjoyed having me around , but I was the one dying to get in . They had to convince me to go to college . I was ready to drop out of that high school and just go full into leather tanning but they forced me , like you have to go to college and get a degree . And that's how I got a degree eventually in business .

Emily Blumenthal 3:39

It's a good thing they did .

Tanner Leatherstein 3:40

Yes , yes , absolutely . Then it led me to get my MBA here , and all that without a college degree . I wouldn't be able to do anything . Do that ?

Emily Blumenthal 3:48

So did you immediately work with your dad through college ? After college ? Was it like okay , here , Baba , I'm here , you can get me to ?

Tanner Leatherstein 3:56

make . Basically it was during high school . I was very involved . I was technically running the tanner because my dad was always traveling . I was the one taking care of the production and tanner . Even though I was in high school , after school , during breaks I was just on my phone doing the work .

Emily Blumenthal 4:14

Was that weird for the workers ? I'm sure they had worked for your dad for the whole time . His turnover at factory is just really low over there . It's the same thing . He's worked there year after year . And here's the kid , the son of the owner , who's telling me what to do .

Tanner Leatherstein 4:26

Well , it didn't feel weird to me At the beginning . It was a little uncomfortable Sometimes having tough conversations with 50-year-old masters in the tannery because nobody else is there . I got used to it and I don't think they took it weirdly because I was always there . They were used to me . They saw me grow up . The kid was always around , oh my .

Emily Blumenthal 4:47

God , what did they make in the tannery ? Was it specific to one thing or the other ? What was it ?

Tanner Leatherstein 4:54

Mainly we were doing lamb sheep skins for garment production . That was our main line , either in an APA format without the hair , like the ones you see behind me Right , or then we started making the double face , we call it , which we keep the hair on the sheepskin as well , that you can make the jackets that has the fur as well . We were mainly doing that but as some side projects requested , we were doing goat skins and some cow hides for different productions as well , including rabbits and different things . I've experimented in tannery .

Emily Blumenthal 5:27

Considering where you are now and coming from another country , I'm sure wastage was something that did not exist Any fall off or anything . There was always a way to find something to do with it .

Tanner Leatherstein 5:39

Right . So basically , the essence of leather business is that , basically , the raw hide is a wastage . If you don't touch it within the hour after the animal is slaughtered , it's just a trash , and it's a trash that could be infectious . It needs to be handled carefully . It starts vitrifying right away . We take it , we salt it and then the tannery process starts so it can get a second life as leather . So once you are in this industry , you always look at things like nothing should go to waste . Right , that's what happens in leather . Even the wastage from the tannery process goes back to sub-industries , turning into different things . Right , sometimes you might see what goes in there . It could be disgusting Imagining that's going to turn into a makeup product or things like that , or maybe even food ingredient . But nothing is wasted in the industry , and that was a good way to learn making stuff , I think .

Emily Blumenthal 6:32

It's so fascinating because I think the background you have right . There are so many people nowadays who aspirationally want to become designers , want to become creators . One of the things I always say amongst other people is get experience working for someone else so you understand the process , the back end , because my first job was in media and someone said you'd never open up a clothing store if you didn't know how to shop . That stayed with me right , Because you have to know how to buy . You have to know the process from inception , I mean from this case , from the farm . Having this experience it puts you 100 steps ahead already , without even probably being aware of that .

Tanner Leatherstein 7:14

Exactly . I wasn't aware of that . I was only in the tanning side up until 2016 , 2017 . I know how to take a roll height and make it into leather , and we were selling it to shoe makers , garment makers or handbag makers , but I haven't done anything further than that . It's extremely valuable , though , getting experience from the designers , working with them , understanding the creation process , because it's an entirely different world . Again , I'm trying to learn every day now for the past six , seven years , but knowing the leather in depth , as I had the privilege to learn Intimately , yes , and the network you accumulate in the past 20 , 25 years all leather makers , tanneries around the world like where you can find what , who does best , what is immensely helpful when you try to design something . You know , I know where I'm going to get that exact specific material that I need here .

Emily Blumenthal 8:10

And I ask you , though , just from an expert perspective and I spoke about this in my book , but I had to actually go to an expert because this wasn't knowledge that I had In your personal opinion , which hides and skins and animals are best for which silhouettes ? Can you just share those nuggets of gold with us ? And I think , and it's so , many designers make leather based backpacks , and to me , in my opinion , I always think that's always a least , because they always sell the least right , unless it's a name brand , because , at the end of the day , the function of a backpack is to overstuff and to carry their less fashion forward again , unless it's a label . Do you have an opinion on that ? And also , which skins for what bodies ?

Tanner Leatherstein 8:53

So it is a very deep subject .

Emily Blumenthal 8:56

Can we talk about this all day . This is so my jam . You don't even know Like forget your whole history . So in terms of which leathers and skins do you think and I know it's a loaded and long answered question , but just for the neo fights listening what would you say ?

Tanner Leatherstein 9:09

So I think , if I have to generalize yeah , purely generalizing Make something that is soft . It doesn't have to hold a lot of former structure and we're talking about bags here . Lamp skin is absolutely perfect , you know . It has a soft , nice touch . It's a good material that definitely distinct in feeling and look . It's lighter yeah , lighter . It's delicate . It's not going to last as long as a cow height , but that would be nice if you're working with a soft , silly weight .

Tanner Leatherstein 9:41

If you're going to work with something that needs to hold its shape which most of the fashion bags has to , you know , in the fancy space then cow and calf works a little better because it's a more strict fiber structure . We can't tend it in a way that will hold itself Almost never . We completely rely on the fashion space to have the leather keep the form . We use the support materials inside but of course , using cow and calf goes a long way . Calf is absolutely preferred over cow hides because a younger skin has a finer grain structure . As long as the finish is not overly covering it , you can enjoy it more , has a better touch , a lot softer , almost like you touched your skin when you're 15 years old . It feels different . Why are you four years old if you use different . So calf and cow is kind of that touch and look , feel .

Emily Blumenthal 10:29

I always explain to people that you're buying skins and it's going to change any valve over time , just like yours , like whether it's the oils , whether it's the exposure , whether it's the light , and always to remember that you are buying as and people cringe , but it is a skin , the end .

Tanner Leatherstein 10:47

Absolutely . It is a skin and it's just turned into a way that's not going to pitrify forever , almost , but it is a skin at the end of the day . And especially what I always try to preach the minimally finished letters . That's where we can enjoy the actual characteristics of leather . As long as the finish is not covering what's underneath , we will get to enjoy that natural creation of that skin . So definitely , cow hides is more for the form than structured silhouettes and we talked about backpacks . If we're going to do a backpack , I think my go to is again cow hide because of durability . Even if you stuff it , stretch it , it could be like semi soft , maybe tumbled letters with some pebbled grains , but I will like to see some waterproofing done in the tannery side because it's going to be out there . Adventurous types may carry this . That would be my go to a material in leather backpack area .

Emily Blumenthal 11:39

Perfect , Such good nuggets . People are going to need to listen to this a hundred times . So you're in Turkey and again I apologize for doing a deep , deep dive on you . So you went from Turkey and then you went to Armenia , which so cool . How are you ? You were in Yerevan , right ?

Tanner Leatherstein 11:57

So , yeah , I was in Yerevan for about six months right before I moved to the States

Tannery to Cab Driver to MBA

Tanner Leatherstein 12:02

. Prior to that , I was in Turkmenistan running a tannery for about a year and that's where I got my green card lottery notification Wild . And how I ended up there was in 2007, . My dad decided to move our tannery to Turkmenistan , so you went with that . Yes , I went with it . At the time I was in China actually doing some leather buying , sourcing , consulting for some companies in Turkey .

Emily Blumenthal 12:27

How did your dad feel about that ? Or he was like go for it .

Tanner Leatherstein 12:30

Well , he always let me do whatever I wanted and he loved that experience . He was learning with me too there , but my plan was to stay in China for a longer time , but as soon as I heard he's moving the tannery , he was going to need me to run it there . And then I just came back and joined the menistan . I was about a year of torture and disaster . We left everything . It was insane corruption and green card lottery was my ticket out of the hell and I went to Yerevan to wait for my green card visa . I ran another tannery there for about six months and then I came here .

Emily Blumenthal 13:03

It's funny . I worked in Russia for a couple of years and there's so much opportunity coupled with as soon as you get successful . In countries like that , the government always gets involved and because they always know when somebody starts becoming successful . And then they come in and either inform you they're getting half , demand that they're getting half , or that they're getting the larger portion of it and that you have no stake or claim to it as a result of not being a native to the country . So it's tricky , you know , and the funny thing is that you , as a manufacturer , we're only trying to do good by the country to get more exports for them .

Tanner Leatherstein 13:42

Exactly that was my experience in Turkmenistan , so it's kind of tricky . We went there because we were thinking the leather is there . There's not enough tanneries in the country .

Emily Blumenthal 13:51

Like an intact market .

Tanner Leatherstein 13:52

Exactly . We can process the leather , we can export it out of this country , definitely bringing revenue here , but of course we're not going to do it for free . Our goal is to make money too , because it's a cheaper country . You know we have our interests as well . But the point we miss is that the things we don't see in the first glance , that corruption and , you know , illegal things getting involved as soon as you start your operation there . And that's what happened , you know , every day different part of government was showing up for another bribe and for about a year we tried to work but they didn't let us and we just left everything and get out of there Everything .

Emily Blumenthal 14:26

It's like you built this whole thing and you're like happened on a plane one day back to Turkey like OK , well , that was interesting and that was it .

Tanner Leatherstein 14:32

That's it , that's what happened .

Emily Blumenthal 14:35

So then you went to Armenia , where you were like hey , baba , I'm going to Armenia . Like see you in a bit , I'm going to figure like wait some time out until I go to the US .

Tanner Leatherstein 14:44

No , this was actually basically end of the year . In Turkmenistan , we realized this is not happening and we met an Armenian person , a tradesperson in Turkmenistan . He was doing a lot of deals with government and you know in the region and he happened to know a businessman in Armenia who owned the tannery but couldn't run it for so long . He was looking for a partnership to run it together . That's how we ended up transitioning to Armenia in that context .

Emily Blumenthal 15:12

Did your dad go ?

Tanner Leatherstein 15:12

with you . Yeah , yeah , we were . We were together , like even my whole family , like my . Even my mom was there for a while with us . Yeah , my brother .

Emily Blumenthal 15:21

That's it . Like you guys were leather nomads .

Tanner Leatherstein 15:24

Yeah , yeah , exactly .

Emily Blumenthal 15:27

Can I ask you , just as a functional question , having you know , as an American , we are not historically known for having linguistic strength . I happen to be lucky enough to study a bunch of languages growing up . What did you speak in all these countries ?

Tanner Leatherstein 15:41

Well , I don't speak Russian . I kind of got used to a little bit in my Turkmenistan and Armenian experience . You know just a few words in Russian , but none of us my dad , my brother spoke Russian at the moment . My brother was the most advanced All of us . He studied in Uzbekistan for about a year and he was able to communicate at the basic level when we were there . Right now he's fully fluent . His wife is Russian , so he's completely running his life in Russian now . But at the time we didn't speak Russian . In Turkmenistan it wasn't too difficult . Their language , turkmen language , is very close to Turkish 70 , 80 percent , same base . They understand us , so it wasn't difficult . That's how we got by . And Armenia we just had some translators going around with us .

Emily Blumenthal 16:29

So no English .

Tanner Leatherstein 16:30

No , yeah , the English is not that common there they , yeah , it doesn't help much .

Emily Blumenthal 16:36

Wow , that's so fascinating because as an American you know one would assume Turkey , turkmenistan that there would be some sort of connection . I mean , obviously historically there is , but you never know right . So like what is it ? Norwegian , I think , is the only language that has no historical connection to anything . It's one of those Scandinavian countries . Oh , I didn't know that . I didn't know that .

Tanner Leatherstein 16:58

Yeah , but Turkish has that connection . Actually , I heard this you could start traveling east from Turkey and you can reach to China while just speaking Turkish , because all the countries you're going to pass , if you're on the right path , will speak a form of Turkish .

Emily Blumenthal 17:12

That's wild . So look at you , so you're covered if you keep going east , right yeah .

Tanner Leatherstein 17:17

But I learned my lesson . I think I'm not going to continue that , so oh my God .

Emily Blumenthal 17:24

So all right , you're in Armenia , green card comes through , then you just end up in Chicago .

Tanner Leatherstein 17:30

Yeah , yeah , I was in New Jersey briefly first , like six months .

Emily Blumenthal 17:33

That makes sense .

Tanner Leatherstein 17:34

One should always start in New Jersey Like , yeah , I've been there for a couple of summers for summer program in my college before we call it work and travel and from that time I knew an Italian family like crazy smart businessman one of the smartest businessmen I've ever seen . I learned a lot from him . So I came to New Jersey start working with him . I'm working for him . He was doing textile business . It was quite boring for six months for me in the summer town of Jersey and I was looking for a little bit more friends and stuff like that .

Emily Blumenthal 18:06

And a suburb of New Jersey . Here you've traveled the world through all this chaos and now you're like in the suburb with the backyard . Yeah , why ? Because they didn't have good coffee there either , I'm sure . So well , they were Italian , so they should have right .

Tanner Leatherstein 18:20

Yeah , well , I mean , everything was fine . The social life was a little lacking , and that's why I ended up in Chicago , which I loved , and I was there for nine years .

Emily Blumenthal 18:28

Why not in New York City , if you're so close ?

Tanner Leatherstein 18:31

I was going back and forth almost every day . My Jersey work was intense . I was waking up 4 AM every day and coming back home about midnight . So like four hours sleep , six months , I was driving a huge truck delivering textiles to New York , philadelphia and back to New Jersey every day . So that was insane . I didn't enjoy New York with that kind of schedule so I didn't want to do that .

Emily Blumenthal 18:54

That's it . Oh my God . Yeah , so it must have been Central Jersey . If that was the case , if you had that community Out Jersey .

Tanner Leatherstein 19:00

Out Jersey . It was so fun .

Emily Blumenthal 19:02

Oh God , that breaks my heart . I know that drive . It's not a fun one .

Tanner Leatherstein 19:06

Oh no .

Emily Blumenthal 19:07

Now you go past the Meadowlands and you're like , oh , I still have so much longer to go .

Tanner Leatherstein 19:12

Exactly the New Jersey the other state parkway ends where I get home that kind of thing Like it's crazy .

Emily Blumenthal 19:18

Yeah , that's a hard pass . I would have gone to Chicago too , because that's like city light . So you got your MBA in Chicago , did you go there and then apply , or you were like no .

Tanner Leatherstein 19:28

I was a cab driver for three and a half years in Chicago Like full-time cab driver . From my friend's suggestions I started that and trying to establish a new life here . I don't know what I'm going to do , but there's not a huge thing in the US , especially tenories , so cab driving paid the bills three and a half years . I met a lot of consultants with the cab business and first time I'm hearing about consulting I'm asking them what do you guys do ? They say we basically solve business problems . Like that sounds interesting . How can I become a consultant ? Probably easiest way is to get an MBA . That's how I started to thinker and switched to MBA after the cab driver thing .

Emily Blumenthal 20:08

Wow , so were you still driving a cab and getting your MBA ?

Tanner Leatherstein 20:12

No , I did a full-time MBA in the University of Illinois , champagne , and I'm a Champagne . So I moved to Champagne full-time two years MBA program and then I got a consulting job , came back to Chicago .

Emily Blumenthal 20:23

Where you tell people what to do .

Tanner Leatherstein 20:25

Yes , exactly , but that was my first corporate job . Did it kill you ? It did it only lasted a year , like I'm like . No , I'm not made for this . I was actually tired of not having anything to do . I'm trying to look like I'm working . I'm doing something . I was just Smoking mirrors . I started to question why are they paying me so much money ? I'm not creating value . I just felt super uncomfortable and I ended up quitting without knowing what I'm going to do next .

Emily Blumenthal 20:53

Wow . So in 2016 , you started Pagai . So how did that happen ? Like were you still day-jobbing at that point .

Tanner Leatherstein 21:04

No , so I quit consulting . I went back to Uber driving because , you know , I'm familiar with the cab concept in Chicago . I'm making a living for the first month or two and I'm thinking how can I go back to leather , because I missed it at this point . It's been about almost eight years now . I'm far from leather and I realized this Etsy thing . People are , you know , doing wallets and selling it . I'm like , oh , this sounds like a profitable thing , but I don't know how to design a wallet . I don't know how to make a wallet , so I got into YouTube . You know the Uber driving waiting at the airports , youtube being how to design wallet , learning how to use the illustrator and how to do saddle stitching at home . So that's all the trial .

Emily Blumenthal 21:44

Listen , I'm buying the rights to your life because this is going to make a movie and I'm here for it . I called it first . That is amazing . You know when I got to stay , coming from where you came from , as a true immigrant , right , there's no shame in doing anything that helps you make money . It is what everything means to an end Like there's nothing . You know , like you needed money . You have this amazing MBA , you've traveled the globe , the now what ? But the fact that you were like I can still do both and have something basically pay me while I figure it out , is pretty incredible .

Tanner Leatherstein 22:18

Right , and you know , being an immigrant , probably it's easier for us to realize this . America is a great place to have all these opportunities for you , as long as you want to make it happen . Yeah , there is limitless things you can work on , learn and turn it into a profession and make a great living out of . So I was fortunate enough to be here to do all this stuff . You know you can't do this in Turkey , you can't do this in nowhere else .

Emily Blumenthal 22:46

Basically , Now I can say Now I mean , I totally , totally agree with you . I worked in Moscow and then I worked in London , and even working in London to see the differences , like you know one who doesn't know any better , but coming from a country that is a uniform government and how it's run historically , like no one's changing anything there , they really aren't . But America was founded on privatization . So with that it kind of messes with the system , right , because we really have a system that isn't a system , but with that kind of space it allows you to do whatever you want . It's there for the taking .

Tanner Leatherstein 23:21

Exactly , exactly . So that's not only me , that's the environment making it possible . So that's definitely a great advantage

From Wallets to a Successful Brand

Tanner Leatherstein 23:30

.

Emily Blumenthal 23:30

So here you are . You figured out how to make wallets . Was that kind of like ? It must have been hilarious to you Like , hey , I know how to make the leather , but I don't know how to make any product with it .

Tanner Leatherstein 23:40

It's frustrating . So you understand . I don't understand . I'm like these wallets look simple . We're talking Etsy wallets , right , like it's layers of leather put together and it's simple . But if you don't know , you don't know I have to go in and then learning how to draw things with Illustrator , then print it out , cut it onto leather .

Emily Blumenthal 23:57

Did you have to teach yourself Illustrator ?

Tanner Leatherstein 23:59

Yes , yes , like everything is basically from YouTube , like I'm watching people who are sharing their knowledge , which I appreciate . And soon I tried a few different designs . I'm like they don't look that good , you know , they don't look as good as the ones on Etsy , but I improved . I made like 10 , 15 , 20 different and I'm still thinking nobody would buy this . But hey , I'm going to put it on . You know , I don't care . I put it on Etsy and I got an order and then I got another one the next day , I got two the other day , I got three the next day . I'm like hold on . This is interesting . Now we're talking with my brother . He's not doing anything either . In Turkey Now our factory building is abandoned , you know , completely in trash condition since we moved . I said why don't you guys make this and I focus on design and selling and marketing , and that's how we started .

Emily Blumenthal 24:47

So can I ask you , though , were you able to figure out correct pricing ? Because the shipping alone ? You know it's tricky , right Like you know how to cost out the materials , but to cost out the labor , the time value that it takes to put into the product and then have it ship it over , was that something that you had to learn Like ? Did you have any thoughts on that ? Because I'm sure in itself it's like wait I undercharged , wait I overcharged , wait the shipping . I didn't even think about the shipping cost .

Tanner Leatherstein 25:15

So initially it was everything is new , like I have no idea how to send a product from Turkey to you , or how much it's going to cost the customs tax , the procedures I have no clue but For things getting lost if you think like , let me save some money and ship it with a national mail service , and you never ship it up .

Tanner Leatherstein 25:31

Exactly Never showed up . We lost hope and then two months later it showed up Like okay , here it is , but regardless , we started using DHL the most reliable so far in my experience and I was like , oh , it's not that difficult . And because I did my pricing when I was making my wallets in my apartment in Chicago , it settled stitching . You know , my pricing was not cheap because it took so much time for me to make anything . You know , hair cutting and sewing . Right Now , once we turn into producing in Turkey my pricing I was able to actually take it down a notch because I'm still profitable covering all the making than shipping of it using the best leather I could get my hands on and the pricing worked out basically Probably fully handmade . Beginning gave me a good pricing structure understanding and then I was able to take my prices a little bit down because I found I mean more affordable ways to make the same product better product actually .

Emily Blumenthal 26:29

So did you put it on your brother at some point to say , okay , find someone who could make this stuff for us , because I can't keep making it ?

Tanner Leatherstein 26:36

Well , yeah , that's why we got a sewing machine that we don't even know how to use a sewing machine . We couldn't control it . It goes so fast . I was turning with my hand in Turkey first , first trip , and he's holding the thing and we ended up hiring a person who knows how to use a sewing machine and my dad , him and the sewing guy . They started making these and ship shipping it to me . Me and my wife is doing the personalization packaging , shipping from our Chicago apartment at the beginning ?

Emily Blumenthal 27:06

Did she have a say in this or you were like hey , by the way , I need you to tell me about .

Tanner Leatherstein 27:11

No , she supported me from every beginning of every adventure . We're very close . I'm very fortunate to be with my wife 24 hours . We're still like that . She works from home . She's a consultant .

Emily Blumenthal 27:24

As a consultant .

Tanner Leatherstein 27:25

Yes , and she's coming to my workshop every morning with me , helps with anything she can when she has free time and we come back home , we play with our kids . We're 24 hours literally together every day and we love it Like we couldn't change it .

Emily Blumenthal 27:40

That's how , thank God , huh , yeah , exactly , it doesn't work for a lot of couples , I know . Oh my God , no , that's a tricky dance in itself . So how did you end up in Texas ? And how did you end up with Pagai ? Like , when did you say , okay , we're going to call it Pagai and , by the way , we're moving to Texas ?

Tanner Leatherstein 28:00

So that's interesting . The original brand was going to be Leatherstein and I had a little hiccup when I was opening my Etsy store . I couldn't get that name and I had to think of something else . Pagai is my hometown in Turkey . Its ancient Greek name was Pagai . Right now it's called Biga . I'm like , okay , I'm going to take that . And I found the domain was available for a premium purchase . I bought it because it was short , sweet and it had a meaning for me . That's how it started and within the first year or two we had to get a small workshop in Chicago . The orders were coming in , we had an employee and all that stuff , and in Turkey we had a team of maybe 10 artisans working with us . Wow , yeah , it grew pretty quickly and I think it was 2019

Leather, Luxury Brands, and Consumer Perspectives

Tanner Leatherstein 28:47

.

Tanner Leatherstein 28:47

I was absolutely done with the cold weather in Chicago For the past 12 months . We were just looking for where can we move With warmer climates ? Somewhere that makes sense , Because I can move my business . It's flexible , Right , right , right . We checked a bunch of places California , Florida , Washington , Houston , Seattle , all that stuff and we came to Dallas and we were like , okay , that's it . And we were almost about to have our first kid and I wanted to have it in a bigger space , not in an apartment in Chicago . So we made a quick decision to move to Dallas in 2009 summer .

Emily Blumenthal 29:24

Yet Wow , that's crazy . So you named the brand Pagai . You're making money . You're employing people in Turkey . You're employing people domestically . You and your wife are home baby making wallets , small leather goods , or slugs as some of them call . Had you moved to regular bags at that point , or just you know no ?

Tanner Leatherstein 29:44

Not the handbags in the fashion sense we were doing more Like . This is more of an Etsy Amazon business at this stage . Still , we have our own website , but most of the things designs are basic . There is no inner support and things like that . The bag you can find on Etsy and the code happened and all that stuff . You know we had to close , run everything in our garage here for a while .

Emily Blumenthal 30:06

But that's not anything you weren't already familiar with . It was like a hiccup , and you've been there , done that .

Tanner Leatherstein 30:12

Oh , right away we figured it out Like that was actually , you know , worked out just fine . We actually seeing an increase in the orders . Probably people were shopping more because they were home and all that stuff . It was really busy with three month old baby in hand , but well , we handled it .

Emily Blumenthal 30:26

That's good . You need more than just a baby to do , let me tell you . So this takes us to your Tigtak awakening . I guess we could call it . What was that moment ?

Tanner Leatherstein 30:39

So this was actually a personal realization happened in 2020 . We took a trip to Maui , hawaii , with my son and , you know , my wife . I don't know what happened there , but on the way back I had to write this down . It came to me so clearly in my mind in the airplane . I had to open my notes app and I have to write it down .

Emily Blumenthal 31:00

I'm like do you know something that when you're flying , your mind is much more stimulated ? They say for anybody who's working or has a creative mind never sleep on a plane , because your best ideas will always come when you're flying . Fyn .

Tanner Leatherstein 31:12

Really At first time I heard this , but that's the experience , I experienced it . I put it down on a paper . I realized I'm here to help people understand leather because , putting all the dust together in my life whoever know my involvement with leather they've been asking me hey , I got this leather jacket , I got this shoe belt bag , whatever you name it . Can you look ? Is it good ? Did I pay too much ? You know ? Is it real ? Is it fake ? Right At that moment I'm like people love leather , everybody wants to use it , but they don't really know enough to be comfortable with making their own decisions . Sometimes they feel like they're cheated . So I'm here to help them understand this material a little bit Better . And I can use social media . So that was kind of the clarity of purpose came to me .

Tanner Leatherstein 31:58

Up until that point I was dabbling in everything you know . I was buying a CNC machine , trying to learn different things . I'm a handy person . I love doing woodwork , like I have tools and things trying to explore so many things . But after that clarity , I'm not looking at anything else . It's only leather for me . That was like I realized why I was here and that's how that video thing started . I've been experimenting with different ways to convey leather information to people in different videos since then . But the first wider video happened last year , last August , when I was talking about Chanel and their wallet and it exploded and people start asking can you read this , can you do that ? And I've been just following it .

Emily Blumenthal 32:40

That's crazy . Now I am , as I affectionately have referred to myself as Garment Do Offspray . So my father was a converter in the Garment Center , garment District . So he would buy gray goods you know the big drums , the big rolls as I'm sure you're familiar and then send them to factories and mills to get dyed and then he would then resell them . He was the middleman . Now , as everybody you know , the middleman . At this point , other than in Europe there really are no more converters because people go straight to factories . That set has been wiped out . Thank God that's the case . Because he used to travel only in the US where there was domestic production . Like I remember someone had paid him in cowboy boots , once a factory .

Emily Blumenthal 33:27

So understanding , you know we were never allowed to have labels growing up because we were always taught the cost of goods Like , oh , you know , the markup on this is insane . No , you don't need the real gas jeans . No , you don't need the real this . Like we would get the closeouts , the seconds , even in some cases the knockoffs , like you know , one leg was longer than the other or whatever . Like , oh , my mom's , like I can fix that .

Emily Blumenthal 33:52

So this whole essence of understanding and always looking at product made by independence has really impacted me by looking at name brands , because I have friends who , much like you know , who didn't grow up the way , theoretically , we did , and don't look at these high end products and saying , like the markup on this is insane . I know how much this is a yard Like . I'm not spending a 2000 markup just because they smack a logo on it . And that's what drew me to you , because I'm like he gets it . He gets it . But you know that's obviously not going to change . We are a consumer public . That's who we are as a people , as a culture especially . You know anybody wants you have an element of means . The whole point of it is letting other people know Exactly . So the fact that you're decrypting it is like , oh , you're the beacon .

Tanner Leatherstein 34:39

So I think that's why I clicked with people , because so many of us kind of knows that's not worth it from a material standpoint , right , like they know how much it can cost ? Right , probably not exactly . But to conclude , it's not going to be $3,000 for that much leather . But some people are still questioning because leather is a tricky material . It has been associated with luxury thousands of years you know all the kings and warriors awarded because it was rare , expensive . Nowadays it's not the case . It's really not that expensive . But big brands really still play on that historical luxury essence of leather to create that mystical , you know , quality . So this is $3,000 , probably it's awesome leather , incredible . That's what I wanted to tell people . It's not really about leather . I have huge respect for these brands . What they created are amazing and super difficult , but they are not in the leather business , they are in the prestige business .

Emily Blumenthal 35:37

They're in the branding business .

Tanner Leatherstein 35:38

Exactly , they engineer a luxury onto a leather bag because it's a great medium to carry the luxury on it , correct , and it is super hard to engineer that luxury . By the way , I'm not , you know , 100% , overlooking that 100% I can't do that . Probably nobody else can do that . There's only 10 , 20 brands who have done it successfully and that's it . You know that's the price you have to pay if you want to buy that and there is a huge demand for it too . People who buy that stuff there , they know they're buying status , they know they're not buying just a bag , some of whom may be trying to justify a little too much . You know it's super high quality and it's great design , but it's all biased because you're paying so much money and you're trying to convince yourself it's great . I'm not saying they're bad . Most of them are really well made and good , but they're not exceptional .

Emily Blumenthal 36:24

Well , it's kind of like buying a regular house in a good neighborhood . That's essentially what you're doing , exactly .

Tanner Leatherstein 36:30

Yeah , that's it .

Emily Blumenthal 36:33

So were there any surprises from everything that you've done , from the city constructing , that you were like I didn't even know this about these certain brands ? Or were there any things that you were like ? Oh my God , who knew ?

Tanner Leatherstein 36:45

Absolutely . I'm making a video . Actually , I'm working on it this week . It's like , after spending this much money , what did I learn from all these dissections ? So I'm going to make a YouTube video and a few of these things like it changed my perspective . If you look at my first videos , if you talk to me last year , I will be a little bit more judging against these brands . I'll be like it's absolutely not worth it . You know , because I have my own perspective and I'm a little too strong , maybe borderline , judging people who are buying this stuff . That's fair .

Understanding Luxury Brands and Artisanal Craftsmanship

Tanner Leatherstein 37:17

Now , after looking at all these brands , I see the value . I confirmed it for myself .

Tanner Leatherstein 37:22

It's not about the material quality or craftsmanship . You know you cannot beat , but I started to see who buys this and why they buy it and how difficult it is to create something like that . My respect to their customers , my respect to the brand , has grown immensely . I definitely understand both sides , even though I'm still keeping my own perspective on things . I'm not a buyer of those brands , but I definitely understand it a lot more . And another learning is most of the luxury brands are really just nothing that special , with exception of a few , you know , hermes . I have huge respect for their leather selections . And you know a little bit extra . Craftsmanship practices , the saddle stitching and all that stuff .

Emily Blumenthal 38:03

But they were . I mean , if you go back to Hermes' history of being the first , I think they were the ones who came up with the first true travel bag . That God , I'm going to get my history next up , so here's this . I apologize , but the founder of Hermes , I believe he , went to like the Ford factory in Detroit and learned that the passability of , from seeing the cars and the seats then gave him the idea that he could use those bags , use the leathers , in a different way , that it could be used in a more travel , sturdy way , and his wife was the one that requested it .

Tanner Leatherstein 38:35

Really , I didn't know . This is a great piece of… .

Emily Blumenthal 38:38

I have this giant giant . I have this giant giant , and then there was some sort of conflict . I have to go back and look at which silhouette this is and this is gonna kill me because there's a name . But then there's two different brands that fought over who was the creator of this and I'll let you know . But I have this giant dossier of the history of the handbag that I always like to defer to for moments like this , that there's a reason why certain brands are better at it , because historically they've been doing it and have had a means to perfect it , and those people within their factory or their ateliers have been doing it for hundreds of years , because then their child comes through as just like you .

Tanner Leatherstein 39:13

Right , right , definitely . There is this generational knowledge transfer . It's incredibly important in leather craft , so definitely our mess deserves a huge respect from material craftsmanship standpoint . Out of all those luxury brands Bottega , with their unique designs and difficult silhouettes I have huge respect . Their leather selections were usually good . But one caveat there is like you can't trust one of these brands at all times for everything they say . Because one of the wallets I got from Bottega I was using it without doubting . They said it's calfskin . I was enjoying it Upon till I cut it up and removed the finish , I realized it was a split covered with a PU top which most people call genuine leather . These days it's a stretch of imagination to call it a calfskin . I was shocked . More normally , they are using exceptional leathers . Why did you do this here ? Like it's not worth it ? This is a $600 wallet . Just use the calfskin . So those are the interesting learnings I had with this adventure , and I enjoy it every minute .

Emily Blumenthal 40:13

That's so funny . Can I ask you something Just selfishly ? I want to know what kind of bag does your wife carry ?

Tanner Leatherstein 40:19

Oh well , my poor wife now curious . Whatever design I made and it's going really fast these days use her bag Marketing . Yeah , like prototype . No , actually prototype feedback .

Emily Blumenthal 40:31

She's taking you for a test drive . That's what I'm saying .

Tanner Leatherstein 40:33

Yes , exactly , test drive . She's a test driver again Because so much of it coming out fast these days she only has like a week to carry one and I'm like , oh , here's another one . And some of the bags I buy for dissection she carries those too and to give me a little bit of feedback for the user standpoint . So it changes a lot , like it changes a lot , but the bags she really loves that I got for her was Botango bags so far .

Emily Blumenthal 41:00

And there we go .

Tanner Leatherstein 41:02

Well , I won't call you Volcan , so yeah , no , it's fine Volcan there , it's the same .

Emily Blumenthal 41:08

So , Hannah Luttersstein , thank you so very much . I hope you enjoyed this conversation .

Tanner Leatherstein 41:13

Oh , I enjoyed it immensely . Thank you so much . It's fun to remember the memories .

Emily Blumenthal 41:18

Listen the roots , I'm not kidding , I'm going to like . Though , when there's a movie made about you , I'm going to be behind it one way or another , because I love a good handbag adventure , and this is definitely one of them . So how can people follow you , learn more and get all this good stuff ?

Tanner Leatherstein 41:33

Absolutely . We keep doing short videos on TikTok and Instagram and handle us at tenorlederstine . On both platforms and on YouTube , same handle . At tenorlederstine we do short and longer videos with a little bit more entertainment and information . That's where I do the informative content and my own brand , pegai , is at pegaicom . Everything we create is going to be available there . They can sign up for the newsletter for every week and new designs coming up these days .

Emily Blumenthal 42:04

PEG AI , just in case , and you should call it the newsletter , not the newsletter , just so you know .

Tanner Leatherstein 42:10

Yes , newsletter . Yeah , I was actually checking the domain name . If it was available , it would be a cool trademark newsletter it would Well listen .

Emily Blumenthal 42:18

I think the people at the USPTOgov are sick of me and they have my voice with a line drover Because I call them so much to ask questions . I'm like , hey , so what do you think about this ? And they're like we are not here to field your conversational requests about what you think you should do with the business or a brand . I'm like , yeah , but we're already on the phone , like let's talk a little bit . Oh , my gosh . Well , thank you so much . This has been an absolute pleasure . Looking forward to see what you do next , and we will absolutely be keeping in touch .

Tanner Leatherstein 42:48

Yes , we will be in touch . It was my pleasure . Thanks for having me .

Emily Blumenthal 42:52

Thanks for listening . Don't forget to rate and review , and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer . Thanks so much . See you next time .