Well , I mean the catteries that would make fish that you and I eat have to do something with the skin . So we want to understand , because I came into this business at a later point in time it had started actually in the 1980s and he'd been doing this since that time . So , yeah , it was just , you know , a repurposing of fish skin that was going to be thrown out .
Speaker 2Hi and welcome to Handbag Designer 101 , the podcast , with your host , emily Blumenthal , handbag industry expert and the handbag fairy godmother . Each week , we uncover the stories behind the handbags we love , from the iconic brands and top designers to the creativity , craftsmanship and culture that define the handbag world . Whether you're a designer , collector or simply passionate about handbags , this is your front row seat to it all . Welcome to Handbag Designer 101 , the podcast . I am with Stanley Major of Sea Leather Wear . Stanley , I know this is your first time on a podcast , so I'm here to make this easy and comfortable , just like going to the orthodontist and getting braces . So welcome , welcome .
Speaker 2So we found each other on LinkedIn and , as always , I say , linkedin is a great place to hang out . What I found so interesting was about what your product is made of , because , having been in handbags for what feels like 800,000 years , I got to admit I'm totally unfamiliar with what it is and I've heard about it , but I just don't get it . So what exactly is Sea Leatherware ? What is it made of ? Where are you right now ? What state ?
Speaker 1This is Calgary Alberta .
Speaker 2Okay , so a province .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , yeah . So my company started 20 years ago . It's had the same name since . The website was kind of had a major do-over about three years ago or so and I started an association . I had a company called Mermaid Leather , so his business involved tanning fish into leather . He had tried it on quite a number of species but concentrated on a few of them , like carp being one . So the tannery was in Ontario . At that time the tannery had closed but he was my mentor getting into this business and at that time he didn't have a web presence . This was around 2004 , 2005 . So because I had some experience in this , I made a website . But he was really the person who financed the cost involved in doing the research into removing the scales and the odor from fish .
Speaker 2Can I ask you something Just dropping right in ? So I mean , look , you're in Canada . People have been resourceful . For hundreds , if not thousands of years . People have used fish skins . I mean , that's how people came up with the idea of leather-sweetened skins , right ? Was there some sort of Native American connection , Like who came up with the idea ? Was it somebody who knew someone who knew someone who said , hey , we can use fish for leather ? Like , what's the origin story for that ? I mean , this is why I wanted to talk to you , because I think perhaps it's underrated under value , but people just in my people , I don't think know that it's even an option . So how did this all come about ?
Speaker 1I think , from what I know , his sister had been involved in the fashion business in New York and he had been approached by some interested parties in doing that , in creating a project for this , and maybe not the first time around , but he did eventually go with the idea . So the tanner he was picked in Ontario . I think it took about a two-year period to perfect the making of the leather .
Speaker 2And what fish is it specifically ?
Speaker 1Well , mainly carp . So on my website there's mainly four types . There's carp I call it perch , but it's Nile perch salmon and sea bass . So these were commercially caught fish . They weren't farmed especially for the purpose of creating leather out of them , but they were commercially caught . So it's mainly carp . Actually , most of my stock at this time is that .
Speaker 2So who is catching the fish ? Were you dealing with fishermen who were catching the carp ?
Speaker 1Well , with the canneries , the canneries that were making fish for the food chain and carting the skins . So the skins were purchased and brought to the tannery for that purpose .
Speaker 2So was this one of those things that it was like , hey guys , you got some fish skins we can experiment with . And they said , sure , you got some fish skins we can experiment with . And they said , sure , Is that kind of how it went Like . Or was it hey , what fish would be the lowest cost , highest volume fish that we could experiment with ? Or was this like someone from a department in Canada was trying to maximize on using wastage for good ?
Speaker 1Not really . In fact , the carp originated from the United States , from Spirit Lake , iowa . Each of them had their own place of origin . The perch were from Lake Victoria , africa , the salmon were Pacific salmon and sea bass were Atlantic sea bass . So each in its own way were caught and so it was part of the consumption chain .
Speaker 2So they just had these skins and they were just disposing of them .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2What were they doing with them ?
Speaker 1With the skins .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Well , I mean the catteries that would make fish that you and I eat have to do something with the skin . So we want to understand , because I came into this business at a later point in time it had started actually in the 1980s and he'd been doing this since that time . So , yeah , it was just , you know , a repurposing of fish skin that was going to be thrown out . You know , interestingly , since I started the website back in the beginning , I was approached by a lot of tanneries , I guess , that wanted to sell their fish skins and they contacted me on that account . You know the tanneries closed and you know that's how I've been operating my business .
Speaker 2So that's so interesting . So all of a sudden word got out that like hey , there's this guy in Canada who used to be in the US . He's in Canada , he's taking fish skins and turning them into products .
Speaker 1So I bet you were bombarded with people like trying to get their skins off their hands . No , I was more bombarded by leather manufacturers in Sialkot and Lahore , pakistan , who wanted to manufacture my products . So the fact is that I didn't have a lot of end products . I was just really selling the skins to designers or manufacturers that might want to use them . There were a few products that had been made which I carried onto my website , which are still there , which are belts , golf gloves and wash straps . These were made offshore with the leather . I haven't pursued making end products , but , you know , focusing on selling the skins to the makers .
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Leather is sold by the square foot because it's an animal and it's a skin , and then there's wastage . How is a fish skin sold , and what's the wastage ?
Speaker 1I have to say that mine is not really sold by area . They're sold by the skin . So if you look on the website , I have some skins here to show you , but not a batch of them . But on the website you'll see a batch of them with some attachment tying them together . That's the way they're sold . They were grouped in locks of 50 or 100 or whatever . So in terms of wastage , there was no wastage . I mean skins that were sort of lesser quality . I called them factory seconds and I put them on the website at a discounted price . I mean , some of it's really sort of garbagey , I guess , so they might not have put on . One of the things that I have on the website is called crust . I'll show you a sample of it . This is called crust , so it's been tanned but it hasn't been colored , it hasn't been finished . There's another form of crust which hasn't even been stretched . They look like this oh God .
Speaker 1Yeah , it looks like a dry rag . It's like sometimes they come clamped together and , in order to stretch them , something like this had to be used to spread them on the screen .
Speaker 2Wow .
Speaker 1And I'll show you . This is a sample salmon skin , so you might be able to see the stretch mark there .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's so cool , but it has it . Is that a stitch in the middle ? Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1So what this is is . This was a poorly tanned skin because the scales were still on it and for the most part , all the scales had been removed . I have a sample sea bass skin here .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1So if you look closely , you can see those skin , but a few scales remained in it . Oh my God . What you can actually do is you can use tweezers or pliers or something to pluck them out . I'll see if I can do that here .
Speaker 2So are people buying them and plucking the scales out themselves ?
Speaker 1Yes , Well , not so much . Oh my God . Okay , there we are .
Speaker 2Oh , it makes sushi Crusty sushi .
Speaker 1Yeah , for the most part the scales were taken out , but if the scales remain in , usually I've discounted the price of the skin for those that are interested in that .
Speaker 2Is there usually a seam in the middle because they're sewn together or they're not really ?
Speaker 1No , there's usually not a seam . What I would say is the scales are sort of symmetrical , so if you were stitching them together you might be able to align them so that they it's difficult to notice where the seam is .
Speaker 2Do you find , though , that you know how alligator croc , all of those which they call exotics most of them are outlawed ? Now Do you think and you know Nancy Gonzalez I don't know if you're familiar with her she was arrested , the whole thing of having an illegal exotic farm , and you know there are some places that will no longer allow it , or , if they allow it , the prices are so expensive ? Do you think people can use this kind of fish skin as a replacement for exotic skin , if people didn't know the difference , because it carries a similar pattern ?
Speaker 1My answer yeah , I mean . Alligators and crocodile have their patterns . Each of the fish type have their patterns . I'll show you what the different patterns are here .
Speaker 2And for those who are listening , definitely go on to the YouTube , because our friend Stanley is showing us actual visuals and I got to say for someone who didn't know anything about fish skin before , this is like the coolest thing ever .
Speaker 1This is what a standard salmon would look like .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1Like this . One doesn't have the scales in the middle that you saw before , and salmon have the smallest scale pockets , which is , I think , what attracts them to many designers .
Speaker 2It's really interesting because obviously a fish is skinnier than an animal or you know any kind of animal . It looks like it would be good for a smaller , like a clutch kind of bag , without people even knowing what it is , because the pattern is definitely unique .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'll show you a couple of handmade items that were made with a letter .
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Speaker 1So this is a handbag . The color of the leather there is called Mermaid Green .
Speaker 2Wow .
Speaker 1Now depending If I didn't know any better .
Speaker 2I would think it was Krakow . I really would .
Speaker 1Depending on the designer's tastes and interests , they might choose the design like this . So , or you know , it's up to the designer , but it's actually the same color , the same color of carb lead .
Speaker 2So would you say that this material lends itself more for trimming or patchwork like that than actually making a whole bag out of it , because I think , because it's so cool looking , especially with what you showed me with those bright colors , that I think it's a really nice addition to give it a little zhuzh .
Speaker 1It could be . This is a small wallet type of creation . I'm actually out of stock of this particular color , which is called seafoam , seafoam . Yeah , seafoam , but you can see where the stitching was done , right . So for a small item like that , it can be the whole outside of it . But yeah , it's used for trim . There's a wallet that used this for trim .
Speaker 2Okay . So for anybody who's listening , just so , they have a visual which is kind of like watching Top Chef and not being able to eat the food . So Stanley is showing me wallets and a beautiful bag with a really cool trim , and I just think this is such a huge opportunity for people to do things that are really unexpected . Now can I ask you not again , not being an expert in this field people who are vegan don't eat fish . Would people utilize this material and how would they categorize it ? Is it leather ? It's obviously not PU or chemically made . Would they call this vegan ? What would it fall under ?
Speaker 1Would they call it vegan ?
Speaker 2It can't be right , Because it's fish .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think it's fish , fish . I mean , the way I look at it is it has the scale patterns that the the more exotic you know species have . If you're not concerned about what species have , but you like the pattern , you know it's there in the fish , I think I I showed you a couple of purses that were made with a carp . So there are some standard skins and there's some large skins . This is a larger skin .
Speaker 2Wow .
Speaker 1Okay , and then ?
Speaker 2Stanley's showing me a skin that I got to say it almost looks like crocodile . If I didn't know any better . It's so cool . What fish is that that's ?
Speaker 1huge . This is carp and that color is called goldfish .
Speaker 2So can I ask you ? So this is actually skin that would have been was disposed of anyway . So you're basically making this almost more of a . I would even say this is like a sustainable skin , because you're taking something that would have been disposed of and reusing it and repurposing , wouldn't you ?
Speaker 1That's the idea , yeah and yeah . So you don't find this in the animal world , it's only fish . But if you wanted to see the other patterns , another type that I have is perch . It's actually Nile perch and it has , I guess , what I call an intermediate scale pattern . It's a bit bigger than the salmon , but smaller than the carp .
Speaker 2It looks like a treated leather . Hey , can I ask you , is it pretty thin , like you would have to , because you know , with leather it's so thick like they need to skive it , which means removing the interior layer . What is the inside because ? And how does that work ?
Speaker 1is it strong enough that if you sew uh , the skiving had been done on the back , so so these are pretty much ready to use for your purpose . This one is called sea bass and I guess it tends to maybe have more leftover on the back than the other types , but for the most part , for the salmon , there's not a lot on the back that's leftover , so they're ready for use .
Speaker 2So let me ask you so you've built this website , how did people find you and say , like how'd you get the word out saying , by the way , you can use fish skins instead of animal leather ? Like how do people because again I'm so unfamiliar with it Like I haven't seen this at my leather people or anything ?
Speaker 1So I started this about 20 years ago . At that time e-commerce wasn't such a big thing , but it's a different horizon today than it was then . Then you could search . So I tried to make sure that I was well-positioned . If somebody was looking for fish leather and I kind of tried to include it in the categories of exotic leather suede leather . I've tried to include it in the categories of exotic leather suede leather . So I kind of tried to make it known that way . And you know , word got around and I don't know . I don't want to tell you . Word got around and I'm still going today .
Speaker 2That's amazing . So is it typically bigger brands finding you or do you find a lot of like ? Emerging independent designers are like , hey , can I buy a few skins ? And like do people place pre Go ahead ?
Speaker 1I don't sort of have a list , an A list of celebrities that I've bought . I can tell you that a couple of the more interesting purchases that I had way back was when the United States was in Afghanistan . I had a purchase from Bagram Air Base , so somebody thought this was cool enough to order it . I also had a purchase from a Saudi Arabian princess . I'm not mentioning names . That's okay , but when customers I've often asked customers if they don't mind my including their pictures of their work on my website I give them the attribution . It spilled over into Google Photos from my website but , like many more , don't care to send pictures or , you know , it can't be bothered , but that's fine .
Speaker 2Right , right , right . Wow . This is the coolest thing ever . Stanley . How can people find you follow ? You place an order . How do we do that ?
Speaker 1Well , I've never been part of the Facebook world , but I was on LinkedIn early in its early days . World where I work , I was on LinkedIn early in its early days , so I'm active on LinkedIn . That's how we got in touch . Yeah , so most of the social platforms I don't have a presence on , but on LinkedIn I have a presence .
Speaker 2What is your website ?
Speaker 1Yeah , the website is sealeatherwearcom .
Speaker 2S-E-A-L-E-A-T-H-E-R sealeathercom right .
Speaker 1Sealeather , where W-E-A-R .
Speaker 2W-E-A-R . Sealeatherwherecom .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1So I ship from Calgary . Shipping is free with a minimum $100 purchase in North America . I sort of try to give an equal credit when shipping abroad . I can't always guarantee free shipping because of the nature of the cost of that , but I give some sort of credit . Canada is just coming out of a strike by Canada Post which has occurred over the last month and I'd say the postal service is still resuming and Canada Post has been the main way that I ship my product . So there's some incentive offered at this time , also sort of a skins bonus on account of the shipping delay .
Speaker 2Perfect .
Speaker 1I have promotions from time to time . Pretty regularly , there's a what's New page on the website and you can enter your email if you'd like to be notified of this , and that's how I'm reachable .
Speaker 2That's awesome , stanley Major , thank you so much of sealeatherwearcom . Thank you for joining us .
Speaker 1Well , thanks so much .
Speaker 2Thanks for listening . Don't forget to rate and review , and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer . Thanks so much . See you next time .