To your point of your customers not really who you think they are, I mistakenly thought our customers were going to be sailors. Like everyone was going to be a sailor that bought our bags. Well, sailors notoriously don't have, you know, don't spend the money on things like that. So they would go for the Alabin tote at half the price. And so I was wrong on that. And then, you know, we quickly found out, you know, that our buyers were women that appreciated handmade and the unique design in every single tote because of the sale that it came from.
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast with your host, Emily Blumenthal, handbag industry expert, and the handbag fairy godmother. Each week we uncover the stories behind the handbags we love, from the iconic brands and top designers, the creativity, craftsmanship, and culture that define the handbag world. Whether you're a designer, collector, or simply passionate about handbags, this is your front row seat to it all. So welcome Beth Greenlaw of Seabags Maine to Handbag Designer 101 the podcast. Welcome, welcome.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. So happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love when ongoing publicists slash friends of mine tell me that they have a client that is deserved of attention and has a story behind it. So I love, love, love your brand. We have a sample, or we have one. I don't even want to call it a sample because sample samples predate actual sales. But why don't you not the ditty about Beth and where you're from? And we don't even need to get into the sea bags, but what's your origin story? And then we can work our way up because what I love our listeners to know is, and this is also what I teach to become an entrepreneur or a business owner. It's not a linear journey. And there's a lot of things that happen before we get to sea bags main, before it's like, oh, who knew we could make a bag and who knew it could be a business? So Beth, welcome. What's your story though? No pressure.
SPEAKER_00So thank you, Emily. So excited to be here. And I'm glad you said it's not a linear journey because as far as I know, nobody ever grew up saying, I want to make handbags out of recycled sales from sailboats, right? So um it definitely was not a straight path for me by any means. But I was um born and raised in Maine and went to school in Ohio for business. And at the time where I graduated, there just weren't a lot of jobs in Maine. So I ended up living in many different places, doing the corporate thing in semiconductors and wiring cable. Definitely had no idea how to sew, no idea how to make a tote bag.
SPEAKER_01So but wait a second, wait a second. So you said day jobs. So you finished, you had a degree, you know, business. And it's so funny, like having a kid in college now, the landscape, and when you say, Oh, you got a degree, it's like, oh, good for you. Good job, good job, you know. Well done. But how did you end up like, did you want to go back to Maine? Where you're like, oh, that's it. I'm I'm going. So you were like, that's it. I'm going back to Maine. I'm gonna find something to do because I'm sure going back, you knew it would be kind of limiting in terms of what you could do going back, right?
SPEAKER_00100%. So at the point where I wanted to come back, I was in semiconductors and I was traveling overseas doing a ton of long haul travel. And I wanted to be home and you know, and I wanted to have a family, and none of that was really possible with the job that I had. But there weren't a lot of jobs as lucrative or as exciting as the one
I had. So I thought, why not do a startup?
SPEAKER_01So wait a second. How did you end up in semiconductors? Because as someone who graduates, it's like the most sexy thing I want to do, semiconductors, top of my list. Like, like, was that like, okay, I've moved home. This is a good job, it pays a lot of money, and I get to be home. Like, how did you end up in semiconductors?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it just started from corporate gig to corporate gig. You know, my specialty was business to business sales, and it was all industrial. I mean, there weren't a ton of women in semiconductors at that time, but it offered me an opportunity to do some international travel, which I thought I wanted to do for, and I did for a bit. But then it was time to come home, and there just weren't a ton of opportunities. So, and I loved the company I worked for, I loved what I did, but I wanted to be home. So it really just morphed, you know, job after job, corporate to corporate.
SPEAKER_01Where were you living with the semiconductor job?
SPEAKER_00Well, I started outside of Boston, and my boss wasn't, I had one boss in San Francisco and one in Munich, and customers in Shanghai and Canada.
SPEAKER_01So you were like bopity bopping, like okay, you know, that so you were leading the fabulous life of as a new college graduate because you were traveling. Yeah, it was a little further among the yeah. You were making money, even though it wasn't a sexy business.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it was about 27 by the time I went on to that international job. So before that, it was you know more domestic, but same idea, traveling corporate sales. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. So, I mean, the interesting thing is about corporate sales, especially traveling on somebody else's dollar. You learn a lot of and and these are hard lessons, like how to present yourself, how to sell, how to listen, and especially something that isn't so sexy. You know, you have to sell into, really, really be aware of what people are looking for before you can make a pitch. I mean, it's not like you can make something about the product you're selling. So I'm sure that, you know, it's not like it's not like PR or sorry, I'm your publicist is listening, but it's not like it's anything that you can glorify. Like you have to be very specific, black and white, like here's what you need, here's what we've got, and you have to be really locked in on your numbers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And it was really about knowing your differentiators and how to offer what your competitors couldn't, right? And so, um, and it was a lot of relationship management too, but but that was a foundation that helped me understand the whole sales process. And you know, it's so funny. So many uh entrepreneurs, when they come in, they say, you know, I don't want to be corporate. Well, if I if I didn't have my corporate background, you know, 20 years later, I wouldn't still be here, right? So it definitely helped me build a foundation.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it also helps you know that when you're working corporate, you're and there's so much that you need to know and be ready to present. So if money is spent that it's going to something, it's leading to something. Because I deal with so many designers and we talk about this a lot, but the most organized, the most logical people, when they get an idea that is not logical, not black and white, all that like training and mindset is just goes out the window. And then they go with the feeling, and then they're like, you know, that's it. I'm all in, I'm all in. Like, okay, my day job, I knew exactly what I was doing, but for this, I don't know what I'm doing at all. But I'm gonna spend this money and I'm gonna design this bag.
SPEAKER_00But you know, you're totally you're totally right on that. And then when I told my peers in my semiconductor world, like, hey, I'm going to, you know, I'm leaving the company, I'm starting this business, not even just my peers, my parents thought I was nuts. You know, my family thought I was nuts. And you do, you get caught up in the excitement and the glory of it all, but down deep, you still have your roots of, okay, I need a sales budget and I need to, you know, I need to make more revenue than I spend. And and how do you do that? So, but yeah, it was you do get a lot of, or I had at least a lot of, you know, stars in my eyes, and they were, we're gonna launch this thing and it's gonna be amazing, right? So okay, so that's it.
SPEAKER_01You go back to Maine. How did you come up with this construct of like, you know, it would be awesome? Let's use because I gotta tell you, I know there are businesses where they take left over, leftover ads that people use like outdoor advertising, and then they turn those into bags. And there's a lot of things that people take that aren't necessarily garbage or could be recycled materials that then be like, hold on a second, I'm gonna turn this into a bag. And how did you come to this conclusion? Because understanding how handbags work and you know how bags don't sell unless they stand up and understanding the any of a woman and carrying and what could, oh, wouldn't it be cute if we had rope
as our handle? Or is that where is that too on the nose?
SPEAKER_00And talk a little bit about all that. Yeah, so so there was a woman down on the the fishing docks here where we're originating, where I'm sitting today, and she was doing it as kind of a hobby business. And her dad was a sailor and and taught her how to make this. So the bag design was really their idea. The rope handles, it's a continued splice loop that's been around forever. It's how they carried ice aboard aboard fishing boats a hundred years ago. So the the the rope handle carrying for strength is something that's been around for a while, but using a sail, a recycled sail is, you know, new. And so she was doing, you know, very few in quantity, but I approached her and said, Oh my god, this is amazing. You know, what do you think? Did you ever think about growing, you know, would we, could we, should we? And you know, I say we dated for about six months before we decided to kind of turn it into a company, but we agreed on you know what I call our North Stars early on. And it was, we're gonna keep it made here because you know, all the sewing jobs had gone offshore. And I like, and my relatives worked for a shirt factory, Hathaway shirt factory in Maine, you know, forever, and all those jobs left, you know, and all the shoe factories in Maine were going overseas. I was like, so we're gonna bring cut and sew back. You know, this is my romantic idea. Like, we're gonna bring it back and we're gonna keep it green and product and practice, you know, we're gonna be sustainable. And that was before sustainable was a trend. I mean, this was like, we are gonna recycle this material, keep it from the landfill. And then mostly this was my own preference is I wanted to be good stewards to our community and give back a lot to the community because I didn't feel grounded, even though I lived here. I was traveling all the time. So I just wanted to get grounded. So those are the things we agreed on and the onset, and we still use those to this day to kind of guide us. But it started with you know, somebody making a literal handful of bags a year saying, How could we scale this? How could we grow it?
SPEAKER_01But I this is so interesting. So you basically, for lack of a better word, hit on someone being like, I like what you've got. Hey lady, let's chat. How did you know? I mean, respect. How because you know, honestly, Beth, if you and she did not jive, then this concept for you wouldn't have worked. So I so appreciate you saying that you dated before, you know, like committing. Like, was she down? Was she like no? Especially, you know, it it's there's so many people who are either content with their craft fair pop-up lifestyle because it's cute. You know, they could do it, they sell a few, they go home. It's nice, like that's what they're known for. And then there are those who have, and I don't want to say delusions of grandeur, but there are so many of them who have something and they're really expensive, and they're like, they're gonna stay this and we're gonna grow and we're gonna be the best thing that ever happened to anybody. So, how did you know that you'd be a good fit with her or she'd be a good fit with you?
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's huge. We didn't, because we didn't really know each other. And so, and I'm glad you're asking this because again, you know, people own a partner all the time. Partnerships are hard. And so, you know, we found out, you know, kind of our first day, and I, you know, just left my big corporate gig. And um I said, okay, I'll see you tomorrow morning. And, you know, she was the artsy one, and she made the best bag of anybody I've ever known, probably still to this day, right? I could have something in my head, and you know, she would say, I'll be back in 10 minutes, and she would have created it, right? One, one, not scale, but one. But so she was the creative one, and I was more of the business mind, but I'm a good shopper too, right? And so, so that's what I brought to it. But it started the first day, right? I said, I'll see you tomorrow morning. Well, for me, that was 745,
and for her, that was like 11, right? So we had to, you know, we had to maneuver that for a while, and you know, and we did that for about six years before she said, you know what, this is amazing. I love the growth we've had, but this day-to-day thing isn't for me, you know. How do you feel about kind of buying me out? And so we went through that for six years, and uh, yeah, we're still very dear friends to this day, and we were able to make that work. But yeah, you don't know what you're getting into with a partner, and we were lucky that we respected what the other one brought to the party and you know, kind of finessed it and made it work.
SPEAKER_01Can I just ask you when you said 745? Did you show up someplace at 745? And she was not at where did you show up?
SPEAKER_00Toy little workshop that we have down here on the fishing docks.
SPEAKER_01So you got her and you're like, hey, you're like, hey girl, I meet you here tomorrow. And she's like, Okay, great. So you're there early, dressed up, still in corporate clothes, because that's your mind, and you sat there for three hours and she Well, you know, it's just a miscommunication.
SPEAKER_00Like we were both there tomorrow morning.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00It was just a miscommunication. We were both there tomorrow morning in our mind, right? And I was like, Oh, okay. And that's and we both realized that. And she was like, you know, at that point she was probably like, Holy cow, what did I get into? And I was thinking, like, holy cow, what did I get into? Right. So, but uh yeah, so but that's the the best example I have of like not knowing your partner, right? So everything would be good on paper, but you just don't know each other personally.
SPEAKER_01So did you know to draw a contract or have a yes deal between the two of you six months before you you did immediately, you were like, That's it, the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, because I wanted to create a company and not just a company, I wanted to create a brand, you know. So I met with an attorney and said, you know, you know, how do we do this? Right. And I'm sure like in your entrepreneurial classes, you probably teach this, right? But I didn't know. So I had to, you know, hire people to, you know, teach me through like how do you set up a company and how do you register with the state? And what do you mean sales tax? And so with that came a problem.
SPEAKER_01So those first six years, was there ever, you know, in your head that you knew that at some point she would be out? Do you think that was imminent?
SPEAKER_00I don't think so. I think, you know, we we both went into this, you know, knowing that we wanted to take the company and grow it. I think there were my version of growth because of my career might have been a little different than hers, you know. And I knew so early on we talked about, you know, how many bags do we need to make to create jobs? Because that was a huge thing for me, is to create jobs here and everybody have kind of a decent living. And then I went back and I and said, holy smokes, I'm gonna be board stiff if that's all if that's what we do. So I wanted a little bit more of the thrill of the build than she did. And so, you know, and we talked about it a long time along the way, you know, and she came to me early on and said, you know, or not early on, but well before we ended up doing a bio, and said, you know, I'm thinking I want to jump off the train and what does that look like? And so we had to create a path to do that because I at that point I couldn't afford a buyer out. And right, so we had to think about what does that mean. So it took us about a year and a half to find the right opportunity for her to exit.
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for you that must have been a combination of excitement, relief, terror, and oh damn, now what?
SPEAKER_00In terms of set her stepping aside or yeah, probably a little bit of all that. It wasn't I didn't have the oh damn now what, but I definitely had you know all the other things, you know, because you know, the things she was good at were things I'm not good at, right? And so so you know, we had to bring people in to be good at the things that she was good at.
SPEAKER_01So you know you're making something domestically, not even so much domestically, it's like you know, backdoor. How did you determine your pricing? Because you know, when you're saying like, oh, to sell a bag, we need to sell this many bags, and it's like, okay, you want to take a salary, you don't want to be one of those businesses where it's like that's cute, it covers my expenses. Like, exactly. No, no, I want to want to hire people, I want to employ people. How did you determine your pricing and say, this might be too expensive because it's so, you know, how do we get people to see the value in our bags that are made from something and there's such a whole story to tell, but we have such a short span of time to educate the customer on the backstory. And it's like, yes, brands with fans, once we know they know, then we've sold them. But that 80% of your business is controlled by 20% of your customers, but yet you're starting with such a small percentage. How did you go through all that to grow the brand and also come to terms with your pricing?
SPEAKER_00Well, I did everything I didn't learn in school. So, and probably everything you wouldn't teach. Like I did, you know, it was unconventional. But for me, because we're in Maine and this is the home of the LL bean tote bag, I didn't want to compete with them. I could never pretend to compete with them. So the first thing I did is doubled the price to what they sold. So yeah, brave, stupid, who knows, right? But I didn't ever want to have to be compared to them because we're not them. We couldn't create, you know, on the scale. We're limited to we're, you know, we're manufacturing constricted to the number of sales that we had in our raw inventory or raw materials and inventory. So uh I was like, well, you know, we're not gonna compete with beans, let's just double the price and immediately set us apart. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Do you what made you say double? Like 20%, 30%, like were you like, that's it? We're we're just going double the end.
SPEAKER_00Because I thought, well, I thought it was still a reasonable price for a handmade product where each one is uniquely different. And I didn't want to be anywhere near them. And not that I was, it was so obnoxious for me to even think that we were. We weren't. We were like tiny startup bubble, and they're like giant L-L-B. And and I love that company, you know, I grew up here. So I was like, we're just not gonna be just double, right? And so so we started kind of selling small locally here and on an island where my family, you know, vacations. And I remember I would show up on the ferry with, you know, handfuls of the bags we made this week, and the women would meet me at the dock and say, I want these, right? And so that was a little bit of an indication, and then we got lucky, right? Then we got lucky with some really good pros, you know. The Daily Candy picked us up and they were huge, right? Oh my god. So when Daily Candy Candy, yeah, oh my god, so cool, right? That's a throwback. Holy crap!
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yes, when they pick us up, it was the first time that our bags, you know, kind of left the state of Maine, in my eyes. So right.
SPEAKER_01So how you know, I mean, daily candy, that's that that is a throwback in itself. How to grow beyond, like, okay, daily candy may have put you on the map per se, but still being such a local brand. And again, our listeners, like what I always say, like, I preach, be a hometown hero before you ever become anything
else. It is so, so important to know your know your customer, know your audience, and then get that immediate feedback. And people get so obsessed with being in major cities. And then when I always say, check the zip codes, who is Buying your bags probably isn't who you really think they are. So how are you able to say, okay, I'm a hotshot in Maine? I know my people love it. How can I keep people buying this product? And also to make sure that your product isn't perceived as seasonal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a really good question. I never really thought we were hotshot in Maine, you know, but I definitely thought more people knew us than than they did. You know, and so we'll say, What do you do? You know, I work at sea bags. They say, What's that? No way, right? And so, but you're to your point of your customers not really who you think they are. I mistakenly thought our customers were going to be sailors. Like everyone was going to be a sailor that bought our bags. Well, sailors notoriously don't have, you know, don't spend the money on things like that. So they would go for the alabino at half the price. And so I was wrong on that. And then, you know, we quickly found out, you know, that our buyers were women that appreciated handmade and the unique design in every single tote because of the sale that it came from, you know. But our customer base is very much East Coast.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. Interesting. Considering you know that it is East Coast, were you like, okay, we're a brand, we need to do trade shows, or we need to do pop-ups. How did you take that into consideration? Because it's okay being East Coast, that you know, we always think bigger for our brands, we think bigger for us, we think bigger for our employees. How did you roll this out? Because there's so many mistakes that we make as new brands, new business owners, new designers. And, you know, I deal with this all the time where like a designer is positioned to do a fashion show in New York or to do a trade show in Paris. And I always ask them, what's your why? Why are you doing the show in Paris because someone asked you and it's cool and it's exciting? Are you doing it because you hope to get European sales? Is your why for doing a fashion show in New York because you're excited, you feel honored, you know, you like the little buzz in the massage, or is it you really hope people say in under 30 seconds and that's it? Because press today is very, very different than the daily candy days of having a hot email list. So, I mean, if only it was so simple now, we didn't even realize that was the case. How do you handle all of that in terms of growth and you know, reaching all these people, at least on a wholesale level?
SPEAKER_00So it's it's funny, and I'm glad you asked that. So my background was business to
business. So I was more comfortable going to a trade show, right? Trade shows felt better for me. So, you know, we did designers and agents, you know, we said, we're gonna do a boat show, we're gonna do a fashion show, and we're gonna try a gift show, right? To just kind of figure out where we were. But the business to business piece was my comfort zone. And I didn't have enough money to really invest in selling direct to the consumer at that point. So we had that was the best way to get our products in front of it. So, you know, we had some early big collaborations, you know, we had Sperry Top Cider, we had Tommy Bahama, we had J. Crew, right? And so those helped get our names out there, free people early on. So that helped get the product out there and the story out there. But again, mostly it's because that was my comfort zone. It wasn't the most profitable, is you know, direct to the consumer, but it it definitely gave give a little bit of notoriety and easy, easier.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, I think people tend to forget, like, don't sleep on boutiques. Like, that's yes, you're not getting the full markup as you would if you were selling D2C, but it's that's your publicity. Like that, that is your write-off into marketing. That is what like people tend to forget and they get so obsessed with like I have D2C and I think it's going to erode my business, honey bunny. No, you need it. You need people to buy from you at boutiques to see it in the wild before you're able to start really getting that kind of traction. It's it's one of those things people tend to, I think, overlook to have in brand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and for us, you know, those good boutiques have repeat customers that want to see what's new and what they have. And so they do the marketing for us. Our struggle was because we're doing our own manufacturing, you know, we could make one of any design, right? But when it came to, okay, we're gonna give you a thousand units of this particular bag, we need to figure out how to scale that, right? Each bag is uniquely different because of the sale that it came from. It's gonna have different stitches and grommets and things that sailors had, but it had to have the same amazing quality and the same, you know, topical design on the front of it. So we had to figure out, like after our daily candy of you know, a thousand orders of one, how do you do the one order of a thousand of the same thing? So, you know, so scaling with manufacturing is a whole different thing. And I didn't have any background than any of this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And can I just ask you, just out of curiosity, how were you able? Again, you get to a certain point or a certain age, and you're like, oh God, kill me now, social media. Oh, you know, I need to be camera front facing, especially when
you're saying your comfort zone is not so much behind the scenes because you don't have a problem hustling and selling, but to go front facing, I'm bathroom seed bags. Here's our story, here we are on the dock. Like, how are you able to integrate all that in, knowing that it was such a necessity for building the brand?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's Emily, it's still a struggle. I mean, talk about imposter syndrome. You know, when Lisa said came to us and said, Hey, I want you to meet Emily, I literally was like, You're kidding. We don't belong in like we can't fit into that, right? And so it is, it's a it's a hard thing for me, but what I believe in more than anything is, you know, my 200 employees, my leadership team that is so good at what they do and our product, I would put quality up against anything, right? So I believe that I believe in the product so much. We're saving, you know, so many sales from the landfill every year. We're, you know, recycling, we're repurposing, and it's about progress, not perfection for us every single year. So I can talk about business all day long, but if I'm gonna talk about myself, it's it's not a comfort zone, right? So so I guess it's really like staying authentic to our brand. And we don't ever try to be anything that we're not, you know, we don't tell a story unless it's a real story. Authenticity is absolutely huge for us. And and I and it has to be that way for myself too. Lisa pushes me a little bit out of my comfort zone, though.
SPEAKER_01It was it a struggle to start? Were you like, oh my god, you know, it's just even even for me personally, I still like struggle with it in terms of like, okay, I spend more time looking at myself and thinking about the story, and then I end up spending five hours doing one thing over and over. I know, but doing all of that. But it's it really becomes something that you're like, okay, stay throughout my brand. This is something I've put my whole life into. I could do this, I could do this.
SPEAKER_00So it's funny because you, you know, early on you said, you know, be a rock star in your own neighborhood, right? In your state. Well, when I tried to convince people locally that we were going to create our own cut and sew brand here, nobody knew what we were talking about. And nobody took me seriously. So I would go to, you know, the state and I would go to the manufacturers association. They'd look at me and they they all thought we had this, you know, your grandmother's stitching bitch circle every day, right? All bunch of that's cute, right? Yeah, you know, a bunch of ladies coming in and making tote bags on their day, you know, to make the day pass. And so the hardest part originally was getting people locally to take me seriously. And, you know, I'll tell you this many years later, you know, we're very well known for what we do. And, you know, when people gratefully and amazingly refer to us as an iconic main brand because that's what we set out to do, and there is no greater compliment.
SPEAKER_01That is that that is, I almost called Julie. That is, I think, really poetic. And I think that is probably a perfect way for us to tie this up, uh, wrap this up, because to know, and it's just so funny that here you are, you're thinking like you want to make a difference locally, and yet you need to convince everybody from the back end to the front end, and all you want to do is make a difference. And here you are, a female business owner wanting to hire local people, bring the industry back to Maine, bring a product that's saving it from the landfill, and then taking something that's really special and unique and figuring out a way to how to dupe the same back because, hey, I didn't order this, I ordered that. And you're like, but it is the same. That's what you're getting. That's what we are. We're unique and we're for everyone. And it might not be the same, but that's okay. That's what we represent.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's the best way, you know, staying authentic is trying to stay in our lane and not be what we're not, and really staying true to, you know, our core values and you know and our guidelines, you know, rather than try to be everything for everyone. And because we can't be, right?
SPEAKER_01So exactly. Beth, thank you, thank you, thank you. How can we find you, follow you,
and learn more and get our hands on a seabag from Maine?
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you so much. So our website is seabags.com, all of our social media is on the website, and you know, we have 31 stores up and down the east coast and two in Michigan. So amazing. And that's S-E-A-B-A-G-S.com. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. What a thrill to meet you. Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Well, I this is what I do. And listen, I'm not doing my job if I don't get to talk to people like you. So I I just appreciate your time and you know everything you do because listen, to start a handbag and start a brand, and you know, as we said, it's not a linear journey. This is not for the faint of heart. It really, really isn't. And I think a lot of people don't realize that like an exciting moment is to move to a place where you don't need to be surrounded by samples and product all day long. And like, oh, I finally have a closet to put them in, I finally have a merchandising drawer, I finally have a door that I can close to because everything started such uh on such a granular level that to take a bag that you saw and turn it into something that creates live on a local level. I mean, that's that's really something to celebrate. So if I'm able to share that message, then for me it's it's it's just as important. So thank you, Beth, for everything. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Have a great day. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and review and follow us on every single platform at handbag designer. Thanks so much. See you next time.