To this day, when people say, Oh, but you make something in China, why is it this price? I'm like, you don't know anything about production. You don't know that 80% of your Balenciaga shit is made in China. And the only reason why they say made in Spain is because of a tax and a tariff issue, is because when they ship the partially finished good back to Spain and they glue it, assembled it. Assembled it. Yeah. Yeah, there's a it's called a finishing law. Yeah. And when you follow the finishing law, which means 80% of the good is made someplace else, 20% is made with you. And that 20% can be down to just putting on a button.
Hi, and welcome to Handbag Designer Wanna Run the podcast with your host, Emily Blumenthal, handbag industry expert, and the handbag parry godmother. Each week we uncover the stories behind the handbags we love, from the iconic brands and top designers, the creativity, craftsmanship, and culture that define the handbag world. Whether you're a designer, collector, or simply passionate about handbags, this is your front row deep to it all. Welcome, Karika, to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast. Welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Um, oh wow, she's melodic too. God, and obviously no one was there for our pre-conversation, but you are 5'10. I'm a tall, yes. Oh, God, it's so envia. But you know, there's have you always been tall?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I've always been really tall, and it's enviable until you're at the airport or getting on a plane when people look at you to lift things, and I'm like, oh a cripple. Okay, I have pins in my back. I can't lift, I can barely lift my bag. I need somebody to help me, but I always feel bad, so I reach up and grab something for someone else just because I physically can reach.
SPEAKER_01Because you have the smoke and mares vibe that it looks like you can, yeah, and you never want to disappoint anybody.
SPEAKER_02I don't. I really hate disappointing people. I also hate disappointing myself more than anything else. It's the only competition that I'm in is with myself. And that's actually the hardest competition to be in because you're you know what you're capable of doing.
SPEAKER_01I feel that. And just on a ridiculous level, I was a gymnast, a very, very, very bad one. Just bad. Bad. And I did it for a really long time. And I think it was one of those things that parents are like, at some point she'll realize that she should stop. And then I think by middle school, my mom called it. She's like, you know, this isn't going anywhere. But cartwheels I've always been really good at, you know, like not in the Betsy Johnson kind of way because she got licensed out, she got paid off, she could do cartwheels into the song and splits. Oh, and splits, I could still do those. But I I injured myself carrying groceries, and I tried to do a cartwheel, and I like it hurt. And I, you know, it's the smallest thing. Listen, that ruined my day. I'm like, yeah, in my head, I was like, I can't believe I can't do a cartwheel, like something's wrong. So I understand at the vapid level of disappointing yourself, but absolutely to go back to you being a tall, that is such an interesting perspective that you have always stood out whether you wanted to or not.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Between being a tall, being biracial, being the elephant or the giraffe, because that's my favorite animal in the room that was never, I
mean, uh the odds are always stacked against me. And I knew that, you know, I had those uncomfortable conversations with my mother very early on. And I understood it, I received it, and I worked with it. I never let it be the barrier. I'm like, yeah, I am different. And wow.
SPEAKER_01And that's so interesting because I'm sure from her perspective, generationally, she was probably, and again, I don't want to ever imply anything. This is just from what I'm gathering, was very much like other yourself. Like, you don't need to talk about it, you don't need to make a thing about it. And you generationally are like, no, I'm not going to apologize. This is me, this is who I am. I can't hide it. So why should I?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I come from two parents that obviously come from very different backgrounds, but both of them, the commonality that they had was never apologize for who you are and what you believe in. If that's true to you, then stand 10 toes down in and on it and act accordingly. And that's the way I've kind of navigated my entire life. If I believe in something, then I believe in it. And it doesn't mean that you can't grow and evolve and hear other people's perspectives and, you know, one day have, you know, a thought where you're like, oh, you know, well, maybe somebody else is right. Okay. But I believe in this right now, and that's what I have to work with. And I believe in myself, and that's never gonna change. So having two parents that really believed in me and believing in myself gave me a level of confidence that was just kind of innate. I never had to grow into the confidence, I always had it. And that's really important. Oh, yeah. Not only in life, but building a brand. You have to be so confident in yourself because people are always, especially in the social media world, they're always going to have something negative to say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think I have discussed this with people, especially people who are getting married, getting divorced, looking for business partners. You know, I speak a lot about not the marriage and divorce thing, but businesses, branding. And a lot of my students have said, like, what are the pluses and minuses of having a business partner? Now I've never had one, but I said if you're ever going to find someone, you need three things. You need someone who's confident, someone who is open-minded and flexible, and someone who is positive.
SPEAKER_02Right. Oh, yeah. Positivity and being optimistic is very key.
SPEAKER_01If you don't have someone who is happy and glass half fulls it, that is who you are, that's who you're not.
SPEAKER_02I also think in a good partnership, you need somebody that is also the polar opposite of you. Because I think of a good partnership business-wise, like what's his first name? Something Duffy and Mark Jacobs. What's Mark Jacobs' partner's name? Oh, him. Yeah. Yeah. Something Duffy. Yeah. He is the antithesis of what Mark is. Mark is very creative and an outside of the box thinker and whimsical and all over the place. And Duffy is structured and you need that other person. It's like Saint Laurent and his business partner. You know, he had somebody that was very business-y. Let me handle the creative, you handle the business. It doesn't mean that I don't know the business, it's just not my focal point. And I think when you have partnerships, if you ever get to that level, you have to have somebody that balances you out. Because if you're both exactly the same on everything, then where's the partner? Also there is a partner.
SPEAKER_01I think you you spoke about this so well. We can't think of Duffy's first name, and that's okay. No, but it speaks to, and I think his name was Mark. I'm not lying. I think so too. But I'm not terrible with names.
SPEAKER_02I am so bad with names. Names do not resonate with me at all. People run up and they're like, Karika. And I'm like, you, you, yeah. I don't even lie though. I can't lie. I tell them, I'm like, I'm sorry, who are you? I don't want to lie and and be like, oh my god, yeah. And then get in this long, drawn-out conversation, leaving me questioning. I say, I don't know you. I do a Mariah. I have to because I really don't. You you got to reintroduce yourself. But oh my god. But the Duffy Squared, which I believe is Mark Squared.
SPEAKER_01I think so too. I think it is Mark Duffy. I think it is, Mark. But to let the other person shine. Now, where are you from
originally? New York. Did you grow up in the city?
SPEAKER_02I grew up in the city until I was about nine years old, and then I moved to North Carolina, which was the death of my entire soul. It was very sad. It was very traumatic for me because I think a lot of it had to do with the racial issue as I went from an area where nobody cared what I looked like to that being the focal point of my life, to the point that my parents actually sent me back to live in New York with my aunt and uncle and a nanny and raised my brother down south for a while. And then it got to a point where my parents were like, okay, so you have to like live with us full time. But I was that unhappy with the environment of North Carolina, uh, the 90s, being biracial in an affluent, all-white area was really tough. It really was. Now, my brother flocked to it, it was great for him, but for me, it was just terrible. And then also, I'm a creative person. Yeah. And New York City is the type of place that thrives off of creativity. Like if you're weird, the odder you are in New York, the more welcome. Yeah. So there's no such thing as no one thinks you're weird. You know, you're one of many people. No, that's the natural clout you have by in the city.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, your freak index.
SPEAKER_02Your street freak index. If your freak meter is at a 10, you're cool in New York, but you're that girl. But then you go, and I also grew up on Broadway. So I'm around people who are very artsy. And so when you're with like-minded individuals, no one sees you as being odd. But then the minute you step outside of that, everybody's like, You're so weird. Why do you do this? Why do you do that? And it was just, it really hurt my soul to leave New York. I knew it as a kid. I cried. I was like, mommy, when are we going back home? And she was like, This is your home now. And she's like, You cried for weeks, you couldn't take it. So that's why they let me go back to New York with a nanny, which is crazy. I had a very interesting childhood.
SPEAKER_01But then I saw you went to NC State.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, so NC, yeah. So I moved back to North Carolina. I had to live with my family at some point. So I they they I had to live with my parents. It was crazy. So rude. So disrespectful. So I moved back to North Carolina and stayed until college. And then when I was done with school, I went back. And then I've lived around the globe. I lived in LA, I've lived in Miami, I've lived out of the country twice. I actually went to kindergarten in Costa Rica, which was also bizarre. Lived in Italy for a little bit. My dad invested in an olive oil factory. So random. So we lived there very briefly. So I've had a really cool, unique childhood, unlike anything that you could possibly imagine. Right. But I think that's also helped me. It's helped me not dwell on a lot of things because I see how quickly life can just change. And it makes me appreciative of the things that I have. But then it also fits in really well with the fashion industry because fashion is constantly moving. There's never a time where you have to stop and wow, look what I did. It's like, okay. And then you're on to the next thing. And I think my life has kind of conditioned me for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know, you're saying you went to kindergarten, Costa Rica. You were in Costa Rica before Costa Rica was what it is now. So it was an actual jungle. Yeah, probably. It was an actual jungle. Yeah. So what number child are you, older or younger? The first. Oh. It was just my brother and I. Yeah. Yeah. For firstborn girls are, especially being an artistic firstborn girl, but yet color in the lines, following passion, you know, has no space for things to go wrong because whatever it is, you keep pushing forward. And that's it with power that is unparalleled. And no wonder your parents let you go because you they couldn't win. They could not fight that.
SPEAKER_02That's very my parents still don't fight me now. I don't have children, but I call them my eldrin, which are elder children. They're actually much more difficult than real toddlers because real toddlers, at least you can threaten them and and make them sit down. You can't do that with the eldrin. I can't.
SPEAKER_01Are they still in North Carolina?
SPEAKER_02They are. My parents are still in North Carolina and they're old. My dad's 85, my mom's 73. So they're of a particular age. Older, shall I say?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know. It's a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're a lot. They're a handful. My oldest is my troubled child.
SPEAKER_01I can't. I can't. But I think the fact that, and I have to have you as a guest speaker in my class because in my entrepreneurship class, because we speak so much, and the people I have, that there is no linear path to be a quote unquote entrepreneur. And especially someone in a creative field, that the things that go wrong are really ways of you to see how to receive them. And I think the mistake that every person has when they start a brand is that you think you're bigger than what you are, you think your brand is for everyone. You think that every little mistake, you go in thinking that you're the best thing that ever happened to anybody. And then you have to little by little realize okay, my customer might not be carry from sex in the city adjacent. Okay, my price point should not be eight, nine hundred dollars because people can't afford that. My brand is not going to be everywhere in less than a year. Like, and there are a lot of the these humble steps that kind of hit you in the face. And you choose to continue it as a hobby that's
not going anywhere for ego's sake, or you take and receive these things that have happened to you and then integrate them into changes, pivots, evolution.
SPEAKER_02So for me, what's really interesting is first and foremost, this is my real profession. Unlike, I don't want to discredit anybody out there, but I didn't stumble upon this. I wasn't on vacation and saw some jewelry and thought, oh, I can resell that. No, none of that. I went to school for design. I worked professionally in this industry. I did licensing. I started.
SPEAKER_01How did you end up at Halston? So were you there when SJP was there?
SPEAKER_02No, but I did take some pieces that eventually were then taken from me that are still it's heartbroken. Like it breaks my heart every time I think about it. But that green dress that she wore, the Halston Green one-shoulder situation. I actually had that physical dress that she wore in the movie. There was actually three of them, and I had one of the three, and it was stolen from me out of my storage unit. And I cry about it all the time because I'm like, it was history. But so I started my career actually at Nancy Gonzalez. Well, no, I started as an intern for Kelly Catron at People's Revolution. And I learned very quickly that PR. Are you on the show? So I actually there's I think on Kell on Earth, you can see my picture on the board. And I think my picture was on the board because they're like, don't ever add this bitch in this office again. Because I was very feisty with one of her assistants. Which is fair. Yes, because he got a little attitude. And like I said, I I don't care who you are, we're not playing that game. Like you're not gonna disrespect me. I will approach you the same way you approach me, but if you come combative, I'm a cancer. So claws are out. Oh, so your birthday's coming up too. Yes, July 1st, the same day as Princess Diana. So that means I'm a queen.
SPEAKER_01Ah, mine is the Mine is the first day of summer, June 22nd.
SPEAKER_02June 22nd. Okay. So you're wait, is that still a cancer? Yep. First day.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Oh I own the entire sign. Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's a difference between a June cancer and a July cancer, but that's a story for another day.
SPEAKER_01Okay. This is like the well, the sun is gonna go up and down. We we have let's see, okay. So you were I entered at People's Revolution.
SPEAKER_02There is a photo of me on the board in one of the shows. I can't remember if it was the city or if it's on Kell on Earth, but MTV did ask me to be on the show as somebody who picked up the phone. So I remember I had on a red Herve Legier dress, black tights, and black Louitin pumps. And I remember like it was like this. It was like this. And then I had MTV, they were micing me. And Kelly comes over and she goes, Your body is amazing, but you don't need a dress like that. I was like, What? And she goes, You look like a hooker. And I was like, interesting. She was like, don't dress trendy. She's like, dress to what you like, like build your own style. You don't have to dress like Kim Kardashian. And I was like, but I like this dress. I really did love that dress. And and little did Kelly know, I had like 10 of those in my closet, but I sat down. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. I'm like, Kelly, love her. She's actually a wonderful person. She really is. Yeah. I really love her. She's a wonderful person. I was like, but girl, you wear frocks every day. So worry about you. Don't worry about me. And so I sat down, and my job was on screen to answer the phone. I was like, People's Rev. Oh, hold on. Roxy. What's that girl's name? Um, oh, Olivia Palermo's on the phone. For you. And she was like, for me? I'm like, yeah, for you. And then hang up, and then she's supposed to answer it. And then we shot that same scene like four or five times. And the producer said, Listen, um, we're not gonna use you. And I was like, why? And they're like, because you're too distracting in comparison to the two of them. And I was like, you're pretty. I if that's what they want to say, but they said I was too distracting. And I was like, I don't know what that means, but um, thank you for your service. And so I will say this I saw a TikTok recently about Kelly. She did a podcast with some guy, and she was talking about how she is basically clairvoyant. And I actually physically experienced her doing that to me. So around the block from People's Rev, which is on Grand Street, there's this little bar restaurant thing called Teeny. And they I live on Grand. Oh, okay. So, you know, Teeny, are they still there?
SPEAKER_01I don't know, but I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_02So it was back, this was back in the day. Teeny was around the block, and this is where everybody got their coffees and their lunch and whatever. So I was elected to go pick the stuff up. So I go sit over there and I'm at the bar. And Kelly happened to be there with her nanny and her daughter Ava. Right. And I'm sitting at the bar. She goes, Hey, you, you're one of my interns, right? And I turned around and I said, Yes. And she goes, I don't want to freak you out or anything, but there is an aura of death around you. That's not yeah, I was like, excuse me. And she goes, Yeah, there's an aura of death around you. Is somebody sick? And I said, actually, yes. I was like, my aunt is dying of cancer. And I had actually moved in with my aunt for the last year of her life. And so she did wind up passing away. Fast forward like three or four years later, I was in between jobs and I decided to go to New YorkFashionweek.com and I was just going to randomly send resumes. This is a pro tip for anybody out there. I randomly sent resumes to a whole bunch of companies instead of just filling out applications for open positions. Right. And the very first one that I applied to was a company called Nicholas K. And I, as soon as I saw it, I'm like, oh, I remember that brand because Kelly used to represent them. And I would always pull their pieces from the showroom. Right. So I applied and they literally called me back. They're like, oh, actually, we are looking for somebody. I interviewed, I got the job. And a few months after that, I'm in the office minding my business. And who walks in? Kelly. Kelly. She walks in the door. Now I don't think she remembered me necessarily. Right. But she goes, Did she die? Straight up. She just pointed at me. This was years later. She goes, Did she die? And I was like, She did. And so Kelly was like, I'm so sorry. So she gave came over and gave me a hug. And so the owners of the company are like, wait, what's happening? And she was like, I want you to know that she's with you. She's with you all the time. Yeah. Like, I can't make this up. And I'm like, when I saw that video the other day, that podcast, I'm like, oh no, this is she really is about that because she doesn't know me from a hole in the wall.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And she told me about this aura of death and then told me that my aunt was with me. So I'm like, okay, she's the real deal. Oh my God. Oh my God. So but I say all of that to say I don't want to be in PR. I knew that was not going to be in PR.
SPEAKER_01That that was, you know, I mean, a couple things. One, getting an internship with her speaks a lot. Number two, it's so important to have a junior position in PR if you ever want to start a brand, because it shows you number one, you never want to work in PR. Number two, how to do PR. Number three, that you should not outsource PR because you know what to do with PR. And there's so much that so many people, when they start a brand, they think I need to outsource a publicist, I need to outsource a sales rep. Need to outsource tech pack person, and it's like you have to understand the behind the scenes before you start having anybody else do anything for you because then you can't call people out if they're not doing, and then lo and behold, you're like getting quoted a minimum monthly rate of $2,500 to $5,000. You spent $15,000 and now they're
like, We got you on this website, and it's like, okay.
SPEAKER_02I could have done that myself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02I learned that PR wasn't from me for me because of the immense stress that they were under to put on those shows. Shows. Yep. And I like stress too because really my background isn't actually in designing, it's more so production. And anybody in product development knows that production is actually the hardest job. Yeah. Creating the product to ship it. And that's why I am so confident because I'm like, I know how these things are actually physically made. I've spent time with technicians, with fitting specialists in the factory, going to tannery. So I know this space very, very well. And that level of stress I like. But yelling at people and figuring out who's gonna sit where because this person doesn't like that person and freaking out because the show's not on, like that was just not for me. And I peeped it very early on. I respect it, but it absolutely could never be me. Uh it's just not for me. Oh my god. But I say all of that to say, because you asked me how I got to Halston. So my career was started at Nancy Gonzalez, which is like ultra-luxury handbags.
SPEAKER_01How was she? Was her son?
SPEAKER_02She wasn't there. Was her son there? Her son was alive at the time. He was the one who was the creative director.
SPEAKER_01I was dealing with them when I had the handbag awards. And I have quite a few designers from the Miami, Columbia area. And there was so much about her brand, about him, how it was run, what they did, the design. It was a lot. So I we had tried honoring her and it never worked out because you went to prison. Oh, well, that too. But prior to that, prior to that, there was so much about they found themselves to be so high up the food chain within the handbag world, especially with those kinds of skins, which having worked so close with Carlos Falci and all these other designers that worked with those exotics, they all said that that has a very short timeline in terms of how long it could last, especially trying to sell it at a commercial level. So was that your foray into handbags? If you ever wanted to start a handbag brand and didn't know where to start, this is for you. If you had dreams of becoming a handbag designer but aren't trained in design, this is for you. If you have a handbag brand and need strategy and direction, this is for you. I'm Emily Blumenthal, handbag designer expert and handbag fairy godmother, and this is the handbag designer 101 masterclass. Over the next 10 classes, I will break down everything you need to know to make, manufacture, and market a handbag brand, broken down to ensure that you will not only skip steps in the handbag building process, but also to save money to avoid the learning curve of costly mistakes. For the past 20 years, I've been teaching at the top fashion universities in New York City, wrote the handbag designer Bible, founded the handbag awards, and created the only handbag designer podcast. I'm going to show you like I have countless brands to create in this in-depth course, from sketch to sample to sale. Whether you're just starting out and don't even know where to start up again, or if you had a brand and need some strategic direction, the handbag designer 101 Masterclass is just for you. So let's get started, and you'll be the creator of the next it bag. Join me, Emily Blumenthal, in the Handbag Designer 101 Masterclass. So be sure to sign up at Emily Blumenthal.com slash masterclass and type in the code I'mCast to get 10% off your masterclass today.
SPEAKER_02That was my foray into handbags, and I can tell you the following of people that she had were so incredibly loyal. I am not going to get into further details because I know this is a done federal case, but I saw a lot. I saw a lot that I'm glad my name was never called to be a witness of any sort. Because I was there for a very short amount of time, but long enough to be. Long enough to see and know exactly what was needed to be seen and understood. So when I did see years later the implications, I was like, oh absolutely, that makes sense. But the following was so incredibly loyal. And there were these two ladies, Shelly and Renee. I don't know if you remember them from Shelly and Renee Productions, but they used to do sample sales, and they had a huge relationship with the Nancy Gonzalez, Gonzalez Babari family. And they would they would do their sample sales. And I have never seen a sample sale like this. And I've seen the Lou Butan sample sale, the Alexander Huang sample sale. This these Upper East Side ladies with disposable incomes. They'll cut a bitch. They will cut a bitch for a Nancy Gonzalez bag. Like they there was a no-stroller policy. They're like, I don't care, leave your baby outside. Yeah, it's not coming in. And they would buy tens of thousands of dollars of these bags because they were basically giving them, I won't say at cost, but they were like $900 to $1,500 apiece when really they're like 10 to $15,000. Oh, no, they were coming in there with cash. Yeah. Like big wads of cash. It was crazy to see. I had never seen anything like that. But I learned my luxury experience from that. I learned luxury materials. I learned luxury construction. And then I migrated from that brand to another luxury Italian brand. And I remember doing production in Cali, Colombia, doing production in Italy. And then after that is when I did Nicholas K. And Nicholas K is all made in China, but I never did any production visits. And then after that is when I went to Halston. And when I got to Halston, is when I started doing footwear. And the similarity was, and this is my ignorance, which I feel like is a lot of people's ignorance as well. As soon as you hear something made in China, you assume that it's poor quality. Yeah. But I went from working ultra luxury to Halston, which is supposed to be American luxury, made in China. And it was exactly the same process.
SPEAKER_01There was no difference. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the way they made a shoe in Italy is the same way that they make a shoe in China. Now, what it boils
down to is you, the designer, are you going to select the best of materials? Are you going to work on your fitting? Are you going to make sure that the top lift of the shoe lays flat, which is an Italian look? So, like all those tiny, tiny details, as long as you have the taste, you have the eye, it doesn't matter where you produce it. As long as you have a good artisan, you can make it work. And to this day, when people say, Oh, but you make something in China, why is it this price? I'm like, you don't know anything about production. You don't know that 80% of your Balenciaga shit is made in China. And the only reason why they say made in Spain is because of a tax and a tariff issue, is because when they ship the partially finished good back to Spain and they glue in the city, assembled it. Assembled it. Yeah, there's a it's called a finishing law. Yeah. And when you follow the finishing law, which means 80% of the good is made someplace else, 20% is made with you. And that 20% can be down to just putting on a button. Yep. Now it's made in Barcelona. And you think it's the greatest material. But where did that material before it got to Barcelona? Where did it come from?
SPEAKER_01Where was it cut? Where was it sewed? Where was it finished? Where yeah, I yeah the tannery. The tannery is in Africa somewhere.
SPEAKER_02So and these people, they don't know it. And I get I try so hard on TikTok to educate people as much as I can. And I do realize that that is a gift to have had that experience and go out there and share that with people. But all of that experience still did not prepare me necessarily to have a brand because the product for me was never going to be the issue. Right. It's finding your audience, making sure that your audience adjusts to what it is that you have and how quickly you can be responsive to these things. And having worked for brands that have failed helped me understand what to do and what not to do. And the first thing was not overpricing myself. And I hear it all the time where people speak about the Elizabeth bag. They're like, that should be like Jacques Mousse price, it should be a $600 bag. And I'm like, I know that, but nobody is going to buy this bag from me for $600. Yeah. If I price it appropriately, then people will buy it. And now, unfortunately, it pigeonholes me into staying in that space, but I'm okay staying in that space because my brand ethos is affordable luxury. I would rather push volume out than to sell 10 when I could sell a thousand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%. I want to dive in about a couple things. Three things. One, what pushed you to having the courage or the screw that? I'm doing my own brand. Two, to name it after yourself. And three, to be so vocal on social unapologetically, because it is so admirable from where I sit, how you speak, what you say, the conviction in which you present. Unfortunately, it's ballsy, but to me, it's logical.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, I don't talk about things that I don't know. So I'm not going to get up there and talk about the Seventh Amendment. I don't fucking know anything about it. So, like, that's not my area of expertise. I might have my opinions, but I don't have any facts to support any of that. But when it comes to product development, I know what I'm talking about. So when I sit in front of people and I speak about it, I can buck up my chest and have my head held up high because I really know this shit from the inside out. I don't care if it's a coffee mug. I can literally make anything because fun fact, I worked at Chewy as a designer for a while. So I can make ceramics, I can make a fucking car. I went to school for architecture, I can build a house. So I understand it. And the confidence in speaking about it on social is what I know. But when it comes to what I don't know, I don't speak on that. Right. But the story behind the brand itself is I was on a production trip in December of 2019. And which is funny because I was in China and I remember hearing COVID, COVID, COVID, and I just dismissed it as two months later. Right. As one did. I mean, my brother was like, You brought that here. I'm like, I did not. Don't put that on me. Yeah, don't put that on me. No, no, no, no. But I was in China and I was at a factory and I happened to see this big heap of this beautiful Liu Pac Gafir. And I said, What is that? Why is it on the floor? And
they said, Well, a specific designer whose name I will not say, but if you know their house and that they use leopard print for everything, then you can guess who it is. But they rejected the print. And we know in the world of leather specifically that if something doesn't print properly on calf hair, it tends to bleed. It's not as sharp as it should be. So they rejected the whole thing. And your options are to sell it as is or dye it black. Right. And I said, Well, how much is it? And they gave me a price. And I said, Okay, I'll give you half of that. And I'll take it right now. And they're like, Okay. And so then I called my brother and he Skyped him. And I was like, What do I do with all this leather? 2019 was long before Zoom and Teams and all that stuff. And I said, What do I do with all this? He goes, Let's start a brand. He's like, let's do like a unisec brand. He's like, go to all your little factories, buy up all their leftover stuff, and let's start making things. And I said, Okay, great idea. So 2020 comes rolling around, and he and I started building cause. Yes.
SPEAKER_01You are an older sister. He is a younger brother. Yes. From where I sit with that dynamic, the younger brother is born an employee, just right out of the womb. Yes. That's it. You know, you are his sun, moon, and stars until puberty. And then you guys break up and then you get back together. Oh no, we never broke up. You never broke up.
SPEAKER_02My brother worshiped the ground I walked on. He was my biggest supporter. My brother and my aunt were the two people that, you know, rallied behind me. My parents, again, very tough. But my aunt gave me this loving side. And my brother, I Karika Kindaga, as he called me, could do no wrong in his eyes. Truly. Like he was to bat for me 24-7. So it's sad to think that the two of them, you know, are no longer here. But he was going to be the employee. And I don't think he on he ever cared that he was going to be second place because he trusted me. Right. He was like, I don't need to be front and center. He was like, but I'll support you. Whatever it is that you need, I will do it, but let's do it together. And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you were still day jobbing. I was at Chewy at the time. I was day jobbing, and which I was in charge of all of soft and hard goods for Chewy. So I specifically was brought on to do a project with Disney. So we had a licensing partnership with Disney, Lucasfilm, Marvel, and Disney Princesses, which a lot of people don't know are actually separate categories, and Pixar. And that was a full-time job. It wasn't like a lighthearted thing, and the skew count was extremely high.
SPEAKER_01So at this point, were you like, had you accepted your lot as a full-time contract designer who could production back person, create a person who could bobbity bop from this category, that category, or was starting your own brand in your purview? Or it wasn't until your brother was like, screw it, let's do something that you're like, it was well.
SPEAKER_02The thing was, is I temporarily moved to Miami. And I was like, why am I here? I hate it. I hate the weather. I I'm not a warm weather, I'm a winter. I need a fur coat, a leather boot. Like, yeah, why am I here? But you know, an opportunity came, so I took it. I could, was what it was. And I was like, I gotta get back in true, true fashion. I don't want to be designing dog clothes. I really could give two shits about that. No offense to anybody who does it. It's but to me, it was also something to put on a resume because it was an experience. As a creative person, I love trying different things. Yeah. And so I wanted to get back into fashion. So I was actually planning on leaving. I was got paid very well. But I was like, let me get back into fashion. My brother's like, well, pause. He was like, get your good paycheck, do this on the side until this becomes the full-time gig. And I'm like, you know what, younger brother, could be on to something. You're you're smarter than you look. So that's how we started. And it was originally called classic cloth. And so then about eight months later, he passed away. And when he passed away is when I everything just kind of got put on pause. You know, I we I stopped everything. I I had to do that.
SPEAKER_01Was that during COVID too?
SPEAKER_02Yes. So 2019 is when the idea was sparked, December of 2019, and he passed away September of 2020. So literally nine months later. Oh my God. I am so, so sorry. Thank you. And it was an abrupt death. It's not as if he were sick or anything. You know, it definitely caught all of us by storm. And at that point was my second wind of losing somebody that I genuinely cared about because 10 years prior I lost my aunt. So I promised myself, though, this time, I said, because I know it's obviously it's life. Somebody has to die. The next time that happens, I'm going to approach this situation differently. I'm not going to be angry. I'm not going to dwell. I'm not going to woe is me. I'm going to live. I can't hold myself back. And so I took a year, about a year, to, you know, just go through the motions and feel. And there's a lot of adjustments and different things that I needed to do. And then I was on vacation with my friend in Mexico and I said, I'm going to start my brand. And she was like, okay. And then like a month later, I was like, everything popped up. And I said, This is it. I am going to hit the ground running. Whatever happens, happens. And so I picked up where we left off, which was apparel. And quite frankly, that's not really my love. My love is accessories. But for some reason in my head, I thought that picking up where he and I left off was how I could commemorate his memory, how I should commemorate his memory. And I should have listened to my mother because she's always right. She said, forget all that, do the brand. That's the memory. It doesn't have to be what you was doing before. And I was like, uh, no, I have to pick. Well, first of all, I had things in production. So I had these thousand-dollar leather coats that we made. So I couldn't just throw those out. I couldn't deconstruct them. Like I had no choice but to continue. And I learned very quickly what to do and what not to do. Because again, the product wasn't the issue. It was that I'm trying to sell $1,500 coats. No one knows me. Even though I know me and I have the experience and I know this product is beautiful. Right. I don't have an audience. Correct. Who am I selling these $1,500 coats to?
SPEAKER_01And that's fan fiction fashion when you say fan fiction fashion.
SPEAKER_02If you're starting out with a price point and you have no audience and nobody knows you, you're wasting your time.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Yep. So and then you had your aha moment to pivot into bags, which no, no, I didn't.
SPEAKER_02I that aha moment to pivot into bags actually came almost 10 months later. So what happened was is I had these coats. I had them made. So I had no choice but to try to figure out how to sell them because now I got a lot of inventory. And I was like, okay, nobody's gonna buy them for $1,500. So I'm gonna do something really crazy and sell them for like $600. These are real leather, real fur. If I liquidate the price really, really low, at least I can get some trash. Money, right? Yeah, I can make my money back with plus a little extra something, but it's not as if I'm hard on cash because I do have a full-time job. And so I can say that I have been very blessed and lucky that finances have not ever been a barrier for me, but I'm still very smart with how I spend my shekels. I don't just throw them out left and right. I really plan accordingly because you never know, you could have it all today and lose everything tomorrow. So I'm very cognizant of that. But I decided sold the coats. So I sold the coats, I decided to slash the prices. And then I decided, okay, now that I'm getting a little bit of traction, I'm starting to build up slight followers. It wasn't anything crazy, it would be like three people a day, right? One
coat a week. And I was like, you know, I was really excited. And then January hit, which we know is a dead month in the retail space. That's when you're liquidating hardcore and people wanting these crazy sales after the holidays. Yeah. And I said, okay, I gotta try something different. I have to do Facebook, Instagram, marketing. I lost tens of thousands of dollars because I had no idea what any of that entailed. I thought you just give somebody a bunch of money, they run a bunch of ads, and the sales come in, but it didn't happen. And I realized immediately that this is when I probably should bring handbags back because or footwear. And people are more inclined to spend money on a bag or a shoe because those are things that they can rewear than they are clothing. Because if you have a statement jacket, that's really for people that have disposable income. And that is not my target market. I want my target market to be the masses. And a lot of that has to do with working with these luxury brands that had such a niche market that they weren't able to expand. And once I saw that when you can reach the masses, then you can build your luxury tiers after that. But you need to get the attention of the people. So I decided to reach out to one of the factories I worked with in the past. I made some samples and I just put the photos out there, and people were very receptive to it. And then I got on the Tamarin Hall show. When I got on the Tamarin Hall show, and at that point I'd built another couple of collections. When I got on the Tamarin Hall show, I remember an acquaintance of mine was like, don't think anything of it. Like you, you might get a couple views, but you know, I've had my product on Good Morning America and nothing happened. And I was like, Oh, okay, lives. It flipped everything upside down. I got thousands of people subscribed to my mailing list. I had at one point a hundred thousand people on my site at one time, and the sales were just going left and right. It was ching, ch ching, ch-ching. I sold out of everything. That I had, and I said, okay, now I realize it's not the product, it's visibility. Yeah. And the number one thing that everybody kept asking, because I had the bags on the site as coming soon. They were coming soon, since like five months prior to the everyone was like, Where are the bags? And I said, Okay. Well, the show premiered June of 2023, 2022, some whatever. Time is doesn't exist for me. June of some year. And yeah, two June of 2023. So it was 20, because it was three years ago. June of 2023. And then I realized that that same episode was actually going to premiere again for Labor Day. Because it would be the last re-aired episode before they start shooting a new season. So, in that time frame, I worked on building my units. I went with to a different factory and I decided to remake all of these bags. I bought a small amount of inventory and then and I took a risk because I thought, okay, it worked the first time. I don't know if it's going to work the second time, but we're going to try. And lo and behold, it just took off. I mean, I sold about 400 bags in a day. And I was like, that's the move. I was like, a vita zen to the clothes. We're going to focus on the bags because that's what I like shoes and bags. And I make a very conscious decision not to do footwear because I have size such an fit and sizing. Because I know fit and sizing so well, it scares me to do it because your size seven in this brand does not mean you're going to be a size seven in that brand. The consumer doesn't get that. So then they think you've done something wrong. And I don't want to list it as the most comfortable shoe when it's not.
SPEAKER_01Listen, people lie about their shoe size too. So you know, like I designed shoes for QBC.
SPEAKER_02I know. Yeah. Those are the biggest liars. Yeah. Yeah. The comments, I had to actually stop myself from reading the comments. My boss at the time was like, Kariga, you're self-sabotaging. Yeah. Because I would sit there and I would read the reviews, and some lady, Mildred from Milwaukee, would say, I have been a size eight for the last 57 years, and this is not a size eight. And I'm like, well, Mildred, you're in your 70s now. You may not be a size eight. You might be a nine. You could be Mildred.
SPEAKER_01Mildred, Mildred, your foot has spread. It's time to move on.
SPEAKER_02You're going to have to move on. But that second go-around, when I saw that traction, I immediately said, This is it. I know for a fact that I've got something. I've got people's attention. I'm going to run with this. And then I stopped doing the Facebook Instagram ads. I decided that I wasted tens of thousands of dollars. It's not yielding the proper ROI. And I was also very reluctant to put myself out there physically. So impressed. At the time, because I was trying to follow what other people did. And what other people did was let the brand speak for themselves. And I thought, but the difference is, is I'm entertaining. I know that. I know people like me in general. They may not like me when they first meet me because they think I'm very stiff. But then when they realize that I'm wild and animated and I'm just kind of like, then they're like, okay, she's very different than what I thought. That I also have this expertise. And if I sit in front of the camera and I start telling people about my product, then they'll be wan over by my personality, plus the fact that they like the product. Yeah. So then I started on TikTok and I started just casually talking on TikTok. And I noticed I would have 30 followers today, 500 followers the next day, 600 followers the day after that. It just started snowballing. And then I decided, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to reach out to department stores. And I put together a whole new lookbook in line sheet. And a month later, I got picked up by a department store. Not for another like six months down the road did I actually actually put the stuff in the store because I had to have my factory vetted with social compliances, factory auto, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think the main reason why they allowed me to do that is because when I spoke to them and I pitched the brand, I was like, you guys, I don't need to be a part of your cohort. No, I got this. Like this men I may not know, but social compliances and shipping to factories and shipping internationally, that I know. That I know confidently. So I could do that in my sleep. I've been doing it for at that point 14 years. Right. I'm good to go. And they believed me and had no problems. So year here we are, year three, get no year two, getting my brand into a department store, multiple department stores at that. And then it just kind of domino affected. Everybody was just requesting more colors, more styles. And then
2024 comes rolling around and I went viral on TikTok. And that just changed everything. That one viral video made me.
SPEAKER_01What was that video about?
SPEAKER_02That video was about me saying how I do not want to work with influencers because that also was another really big form of contention for me as far as marketing is concerned. Because I was trying to follow what other people were doing, and that is Facebook, Instagram ads, and then throwing things away to influencers. But the problem was I'm selling real leather goods. I had real fur coats. I'm not giving you a free fur coat. Are you crazy? Yeah. You've got to be, you're gonna have to skin me alive and put me on your back before I give you a free fur coat. It's not happening. Uh absolutely not. And I tried it though. I had three influencers that I worked with. The first one was a woman of a particular age. She was fabulous, beautiful photos, very professional. Loved working with her, but it didn't yield any results. Yeah, I didn't consider it a wash because the photos were good.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Then the second person was this girl who just had a terrible personality. However, I can see past your bad personality, you yielded results. Things were selling. So I thought, okay, I was like, maybe we're on to something. Then I get to the third person. The third person is when all I need is a bad taste once. I'm a cancer. You show me one time that it's wrong. I don't need to get burned. Five others. No, I got the scar the first time, it's over. And I will look at that scar every single time and be reminded, and I'm never stepping back. So this young lady, I gave her the item, no post. I follow up two weeks later because I don't want to be pushy. I followed up two weeks later, no response. Another two weeks. I'm sorry, I had COVID. And I was like, okay, well, I hope you feel better. Blah, blah, blah. And then a week later, she's in Mexico. And I'm like, so where's the product shot? And she's like, I'm sorry, I'm at a wedding, blah, blah, blah. And I said, you know what? Actually, at this point, forget it. Don't worry about it. And she said, I don't want that to be a reflection of me. I'm actually very professional. I'm like, are you though? So finally she gives me the images. They were so poorly lit. It was, it looked like an afterthought. When you saw everything else on her, it was like, yeah, and then and I thought, okay, so we're not doing this anymore. And I realized that I, when I said this to people, I said, I don't have the bandwidth. I didn't mean that I don't have the finances to hire somebody. It's that I don't have the energy to deal with it. I don't have the energy to sit down because when you do hire somebody that does all of that, they sit down and they see how many followers are real, how many followers are your male to female ratio, how many turn into actual sales. They they look at your purchasing power, all of these metrics. And I'm like, I could pay a marketing company for that, but that's not what I want. I don't want to pay people to say that they like my product when you could just organically get it and then say you like it.
SPEAKER_01And if that takes me a lot more time, also to pay someone to analyze to say they can optimize. I don't need any more eyes except for the eyes on my on my brand to purchase. If I hear optimization one more time, I'm gonna lose my mind.
SPEAKER_02I understand it and I risk I I respect it. I know you do. But I think for a smaller brand, that's very risky because it requires a lot of money to feed into that to actually grow it. And you have to ask yourself, because I got scammed by one of those people that said, I can bring you to $100,000 a month. Well, I don't have a hundred thousand dollars worth of inventory. Yeah, but you get caught up in the smoke and mirrors, like, yeah, I want a hundred thousand dollars a month. But if you don't have a hundred thousand dollars worth of inventory, how exactly are you how are you gonna do that for me? Yeah. And so I learned very quickly that the influencer game was not for me, and that the social media marketing was not for me. What sells is when I sit and I talk about my product. And I know that that can't be a long-term goal. I understand that. But when I look at somebody like Kim Kardashian as an example versus Beyoncé, there's a reason why when Beyoncé drops products aside from sacred, that they don't sell very well. They sell in the hype and then they fizzle down. Yeah. But when Kim sells a product, it keeps going, it keeps going. Yeah. Because she's knowledgeable about it. She's passionate about it, she's authentic about it, and she never stops talking about it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. She's present and the thing is that you feel like someone watching being like, you know what, maybe she'll hear me, maybe she'll see me, maybe she'll see my comment because she's so active. Yeah. Beyoncé, on the other hand, uh, when you carry that air. She's elusive of mystery. Mystery doesn't sell. Mystery has a beginning and an ending. And you know what? I need to get the answer to the mystery. I can't get strung along to the puff of smoke being like there's someone behind that.
Yeah. And if you and if you have physical product to sell, then don't hate on Kim. You know, she knows what she's doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. She's got it figured out in the world of marketing. And I learned from the two of those, just from observing, that there's part of the issue with the products that Beyonce has put out that she's not touching it physically. There's like this massive team of people, but I think Kim is a little bit more involved. Like when she started with the boob tape, she literally said, I took duct tape and masking tape and gafting tape and lifted my own boobs because I had to. And so then, you know, the aha moment with, you know, her momager and the team building something, but it was authentic because she physically had to do this. So she understood it. And of course, the vessel is big enough now where there's teams and teams of people.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's funny because I've had designers who have had their bags worn by Beyonce independent designers, and I have helped them get PR and helped them get eyeballs on it, and it doesn't last.
SPEAKER_02It doesn't well, you have to know how to drive. Well, so Beyonce has three of my bags since 2020, October of 2024. I really wish she would wear one because although I know it doesn't last, I get that, but that maximum visibility is critical. And I don't want to sound like I'm contradicting myself because I did get a lot of backlash actually on social media because I made that video about not wanting to work with influencers on TikTok in 2024, which I reposted on Instagram. So people think that that's like a recent thing, but it actually was two years ago. And then the following video that I made was me singing opera to Kim Kardashian to wear my bag. And so people were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Yeah. You don't want an influencer, but you want Kim Kardashian. I'm like, well, I'm sorry. If you can't see the difference between an influencer versus somebody that is an actual celebrity. To a person of influence. To a person of influence who is an actual celebrity, then I don't really know what to tell you because just alone across multiple platforms, she has half a billion followers. That's a lot of human beings. If you got one percent to your site and then 1% of that to actually convert into sales, that makes you millions of dollars instantly. And the same thing with Beyoncé. So when we gifted her those three bags, which again, everybody's like, Well, how dare you if you don't want to work with influencers? I'm like, This is Beyonce. It's not an influencer, she is the influence. Yes. And her team made it very clear. They said, Hey, we read your terms and conditions, and it states that she has to tag the brand. She doesn't do that. And I said, And that's okay. Yeah. My publicist at the time made a very quick decision. She was like, No, for Beyonce, we don't need her. Because that's actually part of the game, is that people are like, What is that? How do I find it? Who made it? Where do I buy it? And they like that little Easter egg situation. So for the right person, I don't have a problem doing it. And but it just so happens that the right people to me are at the very top. Why not? What can I say? Why not? Because the visibility is there. It's a numbers game. Like a million followers where 600,000 of them are crusty, dusty men. What is that gonna do for me? What is that gonna do for me? I don't want you DMing me saying, I think you're beautiful. And I'm like, oh please. That's a good thing. Exactly. Now what? I don't want you telling me about how I look and this, that, and the other, and asking if I'm married. Don't get out of here. And you're buying a bag. If you're not buying a bag, the door, stage left, exit, please, immediately. But Beyonce, her audience is what I'm looking for. Kim's audience is what I'm looking for. Haley Bieber's audience, that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for the fugazis out there. I'm looking for the people that actually really want to buy shit who like bags.
SPEAKER_01Oh my God. Karika, we have taken up so much of your time. I need to come back for a part two because this is maybe it's a cancer thing. I'm I so seldom reference my astrological sign, but I think it was needed for a call out. We need a part two because you are my people. I see you, I feel you, I understand you. How can we find you, follow you, get our hands on your beautiful bags? And we're coming back for a part two, whether you like it or not. That's it.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'll be more than happy to come back. You guys can find me at karika.co on TikTok, on Instagram. Website is karika.co, and then my personal Instagram is Karika underscore because I unfortunately lost my own. Because it could have just been Karika with no underscore.
SPEAKER_01But it's there's so many of us. I know. Well, I have a fun story about that. I went on LinkedIn and friended every single Emily Blumethal just so they knew if they ever searched themselves up that they'd be four pages in. Oh yeah, that's my bitch flex, but that's it. Laura. And it's K-A-R-R-I-C-A, Karika. Karika. Fabulous. You have been a star gem and something sparkly for us to end today with. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and review and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer. Thanks so much. See you next time.