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Handbag Designer 101: The Stories Behind Handbag Designers, Brands, and Industry Icons
What does it take to create an iconic handbag brand? Each week, Emily Blumenthal—author of Handbag Designer 101 and founder of The Handbag Awards—dives deep into the stories behind the handbags we love. From world-renowned designers and rising stars to industry executives shaping the retail landscape, Handbag Designer 101 brings you the inside scoop on the creativity, craftsmanship, and business savvy it takes to succeed in the handbag world.
Whether you’re a designer, collector, entrepreneur, influencer, or simply passionate about handbags, this podcast is your front-row seat to the journeys of visionary creators, the origins of iconic brands, and the cultural impact of these timeless accessories. Discover valuable insights, expert advice, and the inspiration to fuel your love of handbags—or even launch your own brand.
Tune in every Tuesday to "Handbag Designer 101" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform, or watch full episodes on YouTube, and highlights on TikTok.
Handbag Designer 101: The Stories Behind Handbag Designers, Brands, and Industry Icons
How to Make and Manufacture a Handbag with Nicole Levy of Baikal Handbags
Discover the extraordinary journey of Nicole Levy, who pivoted from a promising career in hospitality management to leading her family's legacy at Baikal Handbags. Uncover the personal satisfaction she finds in transforming designers' visions into tangible artworks, as she recounts her first steps into the fashion world at the age of 21. Join us for an inspiring conversation that highlights Nicole's transition from observing her father's passion project to spearheading a company renowned for collaborating with major brands like Botkier and Rebecca Minkoff.
Get an insider's view on how the ever-evolving fashion industry has shaped Baikal Handbags, particularly through Rebecca Minkoff's brand expansion and the strategic shift to overseas production. We dive into the importance of diversifying the client base to ensure business stability and the rewarding challenges that come with supporting a variety of smaller brands. Nicole shares her insights on the driving forces behind successful designers, emphasizing the significant role of personal drive, involvement, and a hands-on approach—attributes that helped Rebecca Minkoff rise to prominence.
From the complexities of production pricing to the nuances of working with vegan materials, Nicole enriches our understanding of the factors new designers must consider to thrive. She offers practical advice on avoiding costly missteps in pricing and production while maintaining brand integrity. Learn how Nicole's innovative strategies, such as partnering with overseas factories and a tiered system for sample making, help designers meet their budget and quality needs. Discover how embracing sustainable materials like cactus and mycelium presents both aesthetic benefits and practical challenges, and why aligning client expectations with production realities is crucial for long-term success.
Connect with Nicole:
https://baikalhandbags.com/
https://www.instagram.com/baikalhandbagfactory/
Youtube: / Handbagdesigner101-ihda | Instagram:/ Handbagdesigner
TikTok: / Handbagdesigner | Twitter: / Handbagdesigner
Hi and welcome to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast with your host, emily Blumenthal, handbag designer expert and handbag fairy godmother, where we cover everything about handbags from making, marketing, designing and talking to handbag designers and industry experts about what it takes to make a successful handbag.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Handbag Designer 101, the podcast. Today we are here with the famed Nicole Levy from Bicol. Is it Bicol Manufacturing Bicol Handbags? I know it's had a few iterations. Is it just Bicol? You can call us Bicol Handbags. Okay, that's what I thought, and Nicole has officially taken over the legacy of her father, whom I had the pleasure of working with a hundred million years ago. It is officially yours, correct, yours. That's at the end. Yes.
Speaker 3:I officially took over on August 1st this year.
Speaker 2:Wow, that must have been a big deal.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was a really big deal. I've been looking forward to this moment for a long time. There's a lot of paperwork, a lot of insurance transfers, lease transfers, but it happened. And you know, it's a unique feeling that having everything you know on my shoulders now, but it's exciting and it's going well so far in the gut.
Speaker 2:I mean, you've been there long enough. I mean, how old were you when you started working there? Let's be honest.
Speaker 3:I started working here the week after I graduated college, so I'd say I was 21. That was 21 years ago.
Speaker 2:So had you gone into work with your dad before? I mean, his legacy is something very specific because you know. I mean, his legacy is something very specific because you know how many handbag manufacturers are left and there were quite a few back then but he stood the test of time. Why do you think he was able to last as long as he did, especially when you were involved?
Speaker 3:So before he manufactured for other brands, my parents had their own brand named by Cal. So he was always a little hesitant to take on other clients. But I don't know if you remember, but Monica Batkier approached him to make a bag and he said you know, we don't make leather bags, but the sample maker wanted to try it and he did a good job. He made the original trigger bag and that took off. You know, 20 years ago she was the biggest thing and the factory was just full of this bag in different sizes and different shapes and he didn't have to do his own line anymore. So once BotKir became famous, then Rebecca Minkoff came she said you know, I want BotKir's manufacturer. So after that she kind of grew and got bigger and then we had a lot of other brands.
Speaker 3:So basically having those two big brands that we developed early on kind of created this space of you know, our quality, our level of manufacturing. It kind of spoke for itself. So people came to Baikal looking for the manufacturer of these brands. So it was kind of easier than selling yourself from scratch. After he realized that I really liked the business, I was good at it, I was into it, he kind of left me on my own after two years of being here. So when I was 23, I was kind of just thrown into it. You're, you know you love it. Take over, I think you'll do a great job. And he left. So I was young, I had a lot to learn, but yeah, I think that just the quality speaks for itself. And we continue to get brands still to this day regularly.
Speaker 2:Was it expected Like what did you study? Where did you go to school?
Speaker 3:I went to Cornell University for college. I studied hospitality management. I was supposed to work in a spa or a hotel, and I got a job.
Speaker 2:What happened?
Speaker 3:I got a job at the W Hotels out of college and I worked there for like two days and I said this is not for me. So I was using his spare office to send out resumes to get a new job and in walks, these two like models. They were starting a fashion brand. The name was Luba J. I don't know if you remember them Vaguely.
Speaker 2:Russians.
Speaker 3:Russians, yeah, models, very talented girls. And my dad said I'm busy, can you just help these two girls? And I was like, okay, sure, so I start talking with them and they're telling me about their designs and I'm like, wait, this is really a job. I'm like I didn't even think of it as a job that I was going to do one day. I just kind of was thrown into the meeting and I was like this is amazing, this is a real job and I can possibly do this. And I stopped looking for jobs and I just continued and it kind of came naturally.
Speaker 2:So you had no intention going in and had you gone in, you know, coming from a family run business that was also in the Garmin Center, I mean I think I was the only family member that had never ever worked for with my dad. I mean I did a handful of times, but my grandmother did, my mom did, my aunt did, my sister did, like you name it. It was like a pass-through and write a passage. How did you do that from growing up?
Speaker 3:Because I'm sure it wasn't the first time you showed up in the factory. I would come to the factory as a kid. I would help put rivets on the bags and, you know, cut things. It was always an exciting thing for me, but it was never like something that was supposed to be in my particular future. Like I never thought about design per se. I always liked fashion, but I never saw myself doing it. It was different, though, when I saw it as like an interactive with clients Once I saw that how personal it was, how interactive it was. It was very different from when I was a kid. They were always manufacturing their bags and then going out to shows and selling their bags. That's still not something I'm interested in doing, but when I saw that I could meet with somebody and bring their idea or dream to life, that is very me, like I'm hospitable, like to create something for somebody else, that's very in my personality and passion.
Speaker 2:Was this one of those things that growing up, that it was understood that you would not do this, because I know you know your parents were immigrants they started this business. This is like this is what we're doing. There was nothing sexy about starting a handbag brand back then, especially with a man. He was doing it to make money. He made nice bags for people to buy and use and enjoy To make money.
Speaker 3:The end, exactly. I don't think he particularly was so passionate about what he was doing. He was doing it because he had to, exactly, but for me, when I started doing it, it lit me up in every way. I look forward to coming to work. I was so excited about the product. I couldn't wait to see, you know, the first sample. You know I didn't realize it would, but it really. It really was an exciting position for me.
Speaker 2:It's so funny because I've heard Monica. We actually have episodes of Monica and Rebecca. If you go back and check off the archives, I mean it's the. The podcast has been around over a year at this point, but hearing it from your perspective is always an interesting take, because here he had his own brand. Was this something from your recollection that he was like, oh, thank God, I don't need to do it for myself anymore? Or it was like I'll keep doing mine on the side because you were there when all that happened?
Speaker 3:I think it was a thank God, I don't need to do my brand anymore. And then I think when I came in, he was like thank God, I don't need to deal with like designers anymore. It was just not a passion. It's difficult Listen, it's difficult. Designers can be demanding. It's a lot of details you have to follow. It's not for everybody. So I think he was just happy. You know he really loved trading stocks, he really loved finance, so he got to do that more.
Speaker 2:So you started there, you were 21, 22, which is insane, but you know it makes sense the more you started to work with people because I think you know you didn't have that pressure of you know, like eat what you kill, Like there was a business. You walked in, you could take on new people, you could listen. What were some of your experiences going in working with designers and some of the lessons you learned on the other end Because at this point I mean you and I could talk about this till the sun goes down, dealing with designers and all the craziness that goes with it but how have you evolved? Because I know when I started out, the first thing as a designer you want to do is make everybody happy.
Speaker 2:So whatever anybody asks, you say yes, and we could do this, and sure, we could do it in 15 colors, and we could do it again, and let's try this and let's try that. And over the years you're like, okay, no, we're not doing this. If you want to do it in five colors, you're going to pay for that, because that's time, value of money, that's labor. So how have you?
Speaker 3:evolved throughout this process. So what's interesting is, I started off with Rebecca Minkoff. She was like my first real client.
Speaker 2:You were the same age.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the same age. She lived actually across the street from me in Stuy Town and on 18th Street and she was just starting her brand and I was just starting in this business. So the first samples I would literally bring home to my apartment and bring them across the street to her apartment and I didn't realize at the time. But together, I mean, we would build this big company at the time. So I kind of started and walked into my biggest success story.
Speaker 3:I would say it was a lot of pressure for being so young and not really understanding at the time when she started. There was a lot of pressure to be in department stores to be on time. You know there were showrooms back then that took a commission and sold your product and you had a lot of rules to follow. There was no social media back then. So my life revolved around these timelines and sometimes the leather would come in from Italy like three weeks before my deadline and I would have the factory workers being up like day and night, weekends to finish, just so we had this deadline. So it was very intense.
Speaker 3:The first eight years of Rebecca Minkoff. I mean the sampling every season summer, spring, fall, pre-fall, all these you know categories they would come up with. It was just so many samples, so many deadlines, so it was very intense. Like the first eight years of doing this were extremely intense. I didn't really have to think about that many other clients I had always a few other clients at the same time but she was my main focus.
Speaker 3:When she went off to, you know, work overseas, at a certain point she got so big that it only made sense that she was going overseas. So at that point I had to really diversify. In place of one, rebecca Minkoff, I had like 40 smaller brands. So it was a change. It was very hard at that time but I mean I like it. If one client leaves or doesn't make it, it doesn't throw off my whole business model and I can really help a lot of people. But it's been really good to see that success story so I could see things that she did that were. You know I see the way that she worked that created her success. I don't see every side of it, but I see the manufacturing side. You know I don't see all the marketing that went into it, although you know I was seeing it as it happened but I see the way she acted with her manufacturer and it was. It was really unique and she's a very.
Speaker 2:You know people can say whatever they want, but she is a good person and she is a nice person and she is a respectful person, and I can't say the same for a lot of other designers in terms of their growth and what happens. And I call it basement to Beyonce, where a little bit of attention, a little bit of eyeballs and then all of a sudden it's like why aren't you doing this? And I demand that and it's like, but I was with you before and it could disappear just as quickly. So it's. You know. You said something interesting about. It made sense that she had to go overseas. I know for a while that she was still doing local production for reorders, for sampling. Was that something that you knew was imminent, that that giant chunk of business was eventually going to disappear, or did you think this train isn't going to stop?
Speaker 3:Listen, we had an amazing run. So, year after year after year, she was really really trying to keep it made in New York for as long as possible and I really respect that. I think she loved the hands-on part of it. She would come in here, we would work, she would sit and we would work with the sample maker. Like it was so intimate and she loved it. We could do at the time our minimum was eight pieces per color, 24 pieces order. So she could offer any store or a website. You know you can have a custom color and we can just do eight pieces.
Speaker 3:So to me it didn't feel like anything was imminent. To me it felt like, wow, she's another year and another year and another year. Wow, now she's renting the floor above me to do shipping and she's still here. Like, to me it was incredible that it lasted so many years. I knew at some point they would have investors and buyers and things like that, but because they had control of their business, they didn't have so much outside influence. At the time she could choose where she wanted to work and I know she loved working in New York. So, no, I didn't feel like any moment was even. I was like, thankful for every year. It kept going and going and going.
Speaker 2:So did your dad at some point say like hey, there's going to be an ending at this? Or he was just like hey, ride this wave.
Speaker 3:He wasn't really involved. To be honest, it was kind of it was kind of me, that kind of I had to kind of think in the back of my mind that at some point she's not going to be your client. So you really need to get other clients, and I would. I would focus on other clients. And you know we were building Rebecca Minkoff, so it was pretty easy to get clients. You know oh right, you know your Rebecca Minkoff's factory, when she's the hottest handbag designer out there, it was pretty easy, like we had other brands going at the same time, so I didn't only rely on her, but it was a big chunk.
Speaker 2:Was it interesting dealing with new designers who came in with that same expectation that? Okay, you know, I'd love to talk about this further about designers who come in who don't exactly know, with a hope, wish and a dream and a sketch and saying I want to be just like her, like her. And then they look at you, like why aren't you doing this? And you have to be like, but this falls on you. I'm just, I'm just making the bags, like that's it.
Speaker 3:So I don't think I'm like the average manufacturer where I you are definitely not, I'm not the one that just makes the bags.
Speaker 3:I will never be that, even like. I took a few years off to raise my kids. I started another company doing the same thing and then I came back here this year in April and then I took over in August. So I'm back here again after a slight hiatus in the intensity of how hard I was working. Now I'm back to working as hard as I used to, but just in the last four months, like, I met a client four months ago and we already developed her product line. She already is selling. We just placed another order of another 200 bags. This is four months. She went already.
Speaker 3:It was really her intensity that developed this brand so quickly and it's really one of my fastest successes that I've seen recently. So it's not that like you can't do it, it's really in the person. Like, what I've realized is it's in the person. How fast do you want to go? After a meeting with her where she's like oh, I have, I'm doing these pop-up shows, I'm doing Chung shows, I'm, you know, so hands-on, so aggressive.
Speaker 3:Then I met with another client, you know, an hour later, and they were saying you know, we're thinking of a design, we want to launch our first bag next February. So it's just, it's like people have their own things in their mind and I tried to tell this client I'm like you don't have to start with your first bag in February. You know we're in November, like, why not next week? Or like, if you want to finalize, I'm like, why not December? Like, and I gave her the example of this brand that we only started four months ago. That's already we're doing a fourth style already. And it's just the client's pace, you know she's excited, she's going, she's moving, and they really like had this light bulb, like, oh, we don't have to wait that long.
Speaker 3:Like they have certain sometimes clients have certain rules in their minds where I kind of have to shake them a little bit and say that's not a rule. You don't have to follow that rule. Like you can, but you don't have to. So I don't think that it's impossible.
Speaker 3:I do think there's some clients that are they kind of trap themselves is what I would say. And because I'm not just going to sit there and say, you know, okay, we'll start in February, okay, I'll wait, like, call me then. I'm not just going to sit there and say, you know, ok, we'll start in February. Ok, I'll wait, call me then. I'm not like that. Like sometimes I see potential in a client, I have to relay that to them. I have to explain to them based on my experience like no, you could really do this. And sometimes I have to do the opposite, where it's just the direction they're going and I could see that it's maybe not going to work. It's just the direction they're going and I could see that it's maybe not going to work, and I try to help.
Speaker 2:I try to help as much as I can is my point. Those are all good points. One of the issues I've dealt with designers at all levels is retail pricing and because they don't have any orders against the bags they make and they have spent an exorbitant amount of money creating a sample, buying letters from Italy, bespoke lining. They've invested so much before they've done any research whatsoever and then they want to go and they want to charge upwards of $800, $900, $1,000, 2,000. I mean, I've seen that.
Speaker 2:And then I hear them say well, my customer is sick of buying Gucci and Fendi, they're sick of seeing all these people wearing the same bags. They will want to wear mine because they're limited edition, they're one of a kind, and I have to say, if that is how you want to move forward, that's wonderful, but the reality is that's not true. Nobody wants a one of a kind bag from nobody. So what are you doing to promote your brand, grow your brand and do your competitive analysis, do your pricing, do your homework? Who's your customer? Do you have these conversations with them?
Speaker 3:I don't focus on the marketing side of it so much, although I do tell them that you know you need to put allocate budget towards marketing. If people are not going to know who your brand is, then all this is for nothing. We're spending all this money in developing. You do have to allocate. I don't get into that so much, but I do get into the product. So my thing is is that when I see a client that comes in here that has some kind of potential, I really give them a lot of time. So if you come here and you're really thinking about doing this for real, like not dabbling, not someone who's like doesn't look that serious, but if you're serious, I will spend a full hour, hour and a half explaining everything. So I will go into the cost of cheaper leather, the cost of Italian leather, the cost of shipping that leather, the differences in the types of leather. I will go into all the treatments that we can do to make your bag special in the market. You know the structure, the edge, finishing, the paint, the threads, the Bombay fillers, things like that. I'll give them as much knowledge that I have, because I know that a basic bag is just not enough anymore, like. It has to have something. You're competing with these big fish that you know have the brand. So your bag has to be. The bag has to have something, something. It either could be the design, it could be the leather, it could be the shape. It has to have something. So I'll give them all of the options to make something. You know I'll give them everything of the options to make something. You know I'll give them everything I have and then they can use their creativity to come up. What is there something? And a lot of times I tell them to maybe get like a vintage bag or a bag in the market and bring it to me so that I can understand.
Speaker 3:You know, if you give me a sketch, I can only see the sizing. I can see how many inches or centimeters that bag is. I can't see the structure. I can only see the sizing. I can see how many inches or centimeters that bag is. I can't see the structure. I can't see how hard or soft it is. I can't see the edges. Is it painted, is it folded? I can't see whether the lining is a drop lining or, you know, raw, exposed, and everything is kind of seamed together.
Speaker 3:So I'll literally go into my showroom here and I'll show them what that means. You know, let's sandwich the insides. Look at this. Look that could be your signature thing. Look at this. You know French piping. Look at this. You know all the little things that we can do. Over the years I've found sourcing for unique things, unique materials, fillers, bombay stampings, things like that to help them create a unique product. But yeah, I always tell them that you need to be special. You're competing. There's a lot of competition out there. You need to have something that stands out or something that's signature to you.
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Speaker 2:Do you find and I'm so curious about this in terms of trends and coming back and because in my opinion, what has happened from the 1920s is really making a resurgence no-transcript, what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:I am definitely seeing more variety in design lately. I do get a lot of unique requests, a lot of feminine shapes. The patchwork, I would say it's definitely less of that hard structured, boxy, heavy, A lot of cross-body lighter kind of feel things. But yeah, to be honest, I have a huge range of clients. We're doing pet accessories, really stepping up the pet. I have this new client who I'm very excited about I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say their name, but really like taking the pet accessory like 10 steps up so that I feel like is just like very exciting for me. I have a client who's doing like sports bags, just elevating all the sports bags, like the junkie tennis bags and even like pickleball, your tote bag, just like elevating it. We're importing like materials from Spain to mix it up with leathers, and so I feel like there are people right now who are getting into more markets that we haven't really done as much before and kind of stepping it up. So I'm really excited about those.
Speaker 2:How do you deal with it if they come to you and they start getting some business and things are going well and they say, OK, I want to go overseas. What do I do? Or do they come to you like it's a breakup or do you offer solutions? How do you deal with that? Because you're so involved with, you know them growing up, it's kind of like being a high school teacher and saying, well, I have to go to college at some point. How do you deal with?
Speaker 3:that. So when I was younger I had no option for them besides New York. That's all I had and I had one level of pricing in New York. Because I'm so invested in my clients' success, you know their success is my success. I'm just. I'm really into it. So I've come up with different things to help these brands. So about five years ago I partnered with an overseas factory. So anyone who comes into my shop now has the option to work in New York or overseas. So I do. I have right now I have about four productions going on overseas. I have about 15 going on in New York. So I definitely still have the majority of people want the New York, but people are taking that option. You know, if you have a low price point, if you can do a little more volume, like we have that option now Also in New York.
Speaker 3:I've created this system where I can do different levels of sample making and different levels of production and I tell people upfront that the quality is different and I'll show them some of the bags in the highest tier quality only the top sample maker can do and I'll tell them when I see their design. I'll say you can only use our top sample maker. This is your only option, you know, and he's the highest level. But there'll be another client that comes in and I'll say you know, you don't need our top sample maker for this. You can use our second or third level sample maker. Their wage is different, literally.
Speaker 3:I'll give them options. You want the top guy, here's your number. You want the middle guy, here's your number. You want the third guy, here's your number. And they pick. So that is something that I came up with. Also with production, I have that small little order where you can do now, 30 bags, 10 per color, this is your price. But I'll also give them other options of different size orders, you know, not too big, where it's like overwhelming. But you know, let's go a little higher here. We can lower the numbers here. I've had to do this because otherwise people can't have no business, people can't make it. It's's just too much. And and I know I read one of your articles about you know the sample prices in New York and, to be honest, I'm less than that what you had quoted in there. I'm less than that. So maybe I personally take a lower margin for myself or for the business, but I'm more into being able that the brand is able to make maybe four styles or three styles or a duplicate collection, than me making more on one bag.
Speaker 2:Right. I think those pricing just because I've dealt with so many designers who have blown so much of their money on one goddamn bag and they dump their heels into the ground and it had so many bells and whistles that it would cost them that much and nothing ever happened to it. So it's not to say that your pricing is less, it's to say that, again, a less researched aspiring designer, it will cost them more. They don't know what they're doing. They haven't done their homework. They have hopes, wishes and dreams. Again, I call it basement to Beyonce. They go in assuming that they're going to be the best thing that ever happened to anybody. They want the most expensive leather, done, of course, with the most expensive sample maker, because that's how they perceive, that is their perceived brand, that is their perceived value, and they will be left with one very expensive sample that will go nowhere, do nothing and won't make any money, and they can't sell it to anybody because they have no pricing for it. Also, it's not usable, it's not functional. Bespoke leather from Italy in purple. It's not going to sell, no matter how hard you try to repackage it, it's not. And if it does, you're going to sell a handful, and that's a hobby, that's not a brand or a business.
Speaker 2:So I think you know the purpose of this podcast and, selfishly, I get to talk to people like you where I, you know, you and I could talk about this till the sun comes down and enjoy the conversation. It's so much fun for me to talk about this. You know what I mean. I'm like let's talk more.
Speaker 2:But I think to the seasoned designer you know, this kind of you know, being a fly on the wall to this kind of conversation is gold. Because if, in the event, they hear this, as they should and will, next time they come and find you, they'll say oh, my know, to what you were saying. In terms of the tiers, it's like going to get your hair colored with the master colorist who's been doing it for 20 years versus the person in training. Don't expect the person in training that might cost you less. You're not coming out with 20 years worth of experience to make sure your color is going to be perfect. It's going to cost less. I'm sure it'll be just as nice of a job, but you have to know what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker 3:But I like to ask people upfront, like this has come over time. In the beginning I wasn't like this, but I right away say what price point do you want to be in? When they start telling me $200, the red flags start going up for my retail price. I'm like what are you looking to make? I always have to give this education, but some people have it right away. You know, I'm like what are you looking to make? I always have to give this education, but some people have it right away. They know exactly and it makes sense. And some people are so far off that I have to help them.
Speaker 3:But I'm honestly, I'm glad I'm able to do this because I think that if they stumbled on some other factory that doesn't care, that would just take their money. And what I always say is this like, like, if you go to a factory and you use a sample maker that is not capable, it doesn't matter how much they're charging you, they are not capable of doing it up to the standard that you expect. So you can do one sample and pay them, let's say, $1,500 or less for a sample. They're not going to be able to do it. Then you're going to pay again, let's try again and then you're going to pay $1,500 again. They're just not capable.
Speaker 3:I always try to explain this to them that if there's a sample maker who is capable, they're very rare. I have one, I have two, I have a few production workers. They're just the top of the top. I have to fight, coach and all the big fish for them. But they're loyal to me, thankful. But I tell them that these people have such a high capability that you're going to pay once a little more and they're capable of doing it. So even if you have edits afterwards, changes to the style, they're capable of doing the first one to the expectation that you have and you're done. You know we just have to deal with pattern edits and things like that. So if they see already from the first try that the maker doesn't have it, just stop. Just stop and move on. Don't try to keep going with that same maker that doesn't finish the bag properly to your expectation or can't, you know, make the handles the way you like them. Just stop, stop, cut your losses and go and find the right fit.
Speaker 2:Have you dealt with designers and I'm sure you have who don't understand faux leather versus leather? And are you a leather only factory? Because they're like I want to do this vegan, I want to do this faux, I want to use you know?
Speaker 3:Emily, I could have a conversation with you about faux leather and leather probably for five hours.
Speaker 2:I just got goosebumps. I can't even like talk. It's so funny to me. It's just so funny. I've had this conversation with a few people with Alex in, you know in the neighborhood because you know it's leather for the win and trying to explain this to people and they're saying, well no, it's not sustainable and it's like it's going to happen. We're using the skins. You know it is what it is. So talk to me about your thoughts.
Speaker 3:I'm going to give you the my opinion very quickly. First of all, before I give my opinion, I am currently working with, I would say, five different vegan brands. So I do a line of mushroom material, mycelium, mycelium yeah, I do a whole range of products. I'm developing a new brand right now that makes bags out of cactus and apples. Oh yep.
Speaker 2:And Mexico.
Speaker 3:I get regular requests for this. I'm doing them. I am not the type of person that will judge what someone's doing. You know everyone has their own you know view and passion and opinion and if they ask me to do it, I'll do it. I'll do a great job. I think we've been doing a great job with these materials. What I've personally noticed for myself is that if I have a leather bag, I can pass that bag down from generation to generation. They can be. I can pass that down to my great-granddaughter one day.
Speaker 3:I find that a lot of these materials are just not strong enough to withstand. You know daily abuse Even leather has a hard time with. You know throwing our bags and putting them on the floor. And you know daily abuse Even leather has a hard time with. You know throwing our bags and putting them on the floor and you know putting all the things we do.
Speaker 3:So I personally think sometimes some of these bags you might have to change in a few months because they just don't wear as well. And some of them you know, especially not bags made out of cactus or apple, but just full leather is sometimes just straight plastic. That does not make sense to me, just replacing leather with plastic. That does not make sense to me because you're going to have to throw it away, buy another one, buy another one, and then it's not even biodegradable in the end. But maybe some of these materials as they get better you know the ones that are made of biodegradable materials and man-made like they look pretty. I'm doing a production run right now and I just made a, you know, a Givenchy style black out of apple and I swear to you it looks like leather, like what they're doing is getting there, but I just feel like the wearability of it has to really get there as well.
Speaker 2:I did a TikTok about that. From the few TikToks I had the bandwidth to do, I think I did the fruit salad of leather bags and going through the apple, the orange, the cactus pear I know that banana text is there. I mean, I know they've tried potato, I know they were doing potato buttons, and then there was the mushroom, which I've heard pros and cons. But no bag can be 100% vegan. It just can't, and I think that's also something that needs to be debunked, that most of it can be, but there's going to need to be glue, there's going to need to be interfacing, there's going to need to be pieces of it that hold it together, need to be interfacing. There's going to need to be pieces of it that hold it together. So, while I applaud people saying I need the bag that's vegan to say it's 100% vegan is just not correct.
Speaker 3:So that is another part of it. I do have some people that really get into it with me that make me list out all of the materials that our interfacing is made with. They do sometimes switch things out or find other things, but sometimes they don't and we use what we have and it's kind of they think of it as like better products. So you know every what I realized is that every single client has their own standards, has their own opinions, and we work with that client.
Speaker 2:What kind of client is ideal and what kind of client is not? What do you look for in a new client and what are the red flags to you?
Speaker 3:Okay. So I don't want to talk about individual cases because that's a little sensitive, but a green flag would be someone that doesn't right away start fighting about numbers right away. So if I see that someone is like really fighting, like penny pennies, like little things, like constantly, constantly, constantly, every email gets another one response about like the number, the number. I just realized that their head is like they don't understand the scope of what they're constantly, constantly, constantly, every email gets another one response about like the number, the number. I just realized that their head is like they don't understand the scope of what they're getting themselves into. Like this is not a cheap undertaking. If you're asking me for like $3, I think your mind is like not in the right place. We're in New York. My pricing is very good, very, very, very good. Like if I quoted you out my sample, my production, you would be like wow, like how do you even do that? You know, sometimes I take a hit and some runs. We don't make any money, but then we can do samples and other things. So if they're fighting with me when I'm charging them like a hundred and change Meanwhile New York is $16 an hour minimum wage. These are skilled workers Plus how many hours it takes to craft some pieces of these bags, and they're fighting with me. I, right away my red flags go up. I do start paying attention to those people less because I realize that they're not really serious. Okay, that's a big one for me. Also, the people that take like forever, like you give them something and then crickets for like four weeks, like with their feedback they're not serious. Like, and then when they finally come to you, they want delivery in like a week, like they can take. Why hasn't this been done? Yeah, like they can take all the time in the world, but then when they come to me, they want everything rushed. That's not normal. That's not normal. If I'm crafting something that is a high level, that's going to be beautiful.
Speaker 3:You know you have to go with what I'm saying. I don't like when people tell me I need my bag on this day. I need constantly telling me when I should deliver, instead of asking If I want this type of quality, how long will it take for me to get my product? And I'll tell them the truth and accept it. Accept what I'm saying, instead of fighting back Like some people. I tell them it's going to. This is going to take two months, oh no, but I need it in a month. But I'm telling you you're not respecting what I'm saying. I'm telling you that it's going to take two months. It is what it is Like accept it. So I think there's just some like it's a matter of respect, like respect for what I'm saying, respect for what I'm telling you when I tell you a cost, respect it when I tell you a timeline. Respect it when people are constantly fighting back on everything. That, to me, is a red flag.
Speaker 2:And how organized should someone be at a first meeting with you? What is ideal? What is a perfect customer? If I have a hope, wish and dream to create a handbag brand, is it a sketch? Is it measurements? Is it beyond a napkin, Is it? I've done my homework, research Like what are you looking for? What is an ideal client for you?
Speaker 3:So I would say there's a second meeting expectation. There's a lot less first meeting expectation than second meeting expectation. When you come here first, I market this business as you can come here knowing nothing. You can come here with an idea in your head. You can come and approach us. Okay, so that is my business model, that I don't need you to be perfect to walk in here. Okay, so you know. So people are not as intimidated.
Speaker 3:But once I sit with you and give you all the information, I do have an expectation for the second meeting. For the second meeting, I expect you to have a design. I expect you to have a shape. Even if it's a picture or a bag or a sketch, I expect you to have a design. I expect you to know whether you're going to be doing cowhide or lamb, what kind of material you're going in the direction of. You know I can't switch materials. You know so easily. You know if I'm making a bag all your bags in cowhide and then you bring me a lambskin, you know all my fillers have to change, the structure has to change. I have to go back to maybe sample that bag, right, so kind of have an idea, you know. After I explain to you the differences in the leathers, like kind of out of an idea where you're going, because if you're still all over the place, you know I can't work with that. I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 3:I definitely, you know, drill it, that I need to know the finishing. I want to know if we're going painting. I want to know if we're going raw. I want to know that's the whole look To me. That's the look. I want to know what your finishing is.
Speaker 3:I go into a lot of effort and detail about finishing and what it means and what it is, and you know what the options are like. Fold it. You know there's a lot of options. I want you to already have an idea of what you want and then you don't have to be set on all the molds you're going to be making. If you're going to be doing you know, heat stamps or metal molds or anything. But I'd like you to at least be on your way to making those decisions. Like you know, if I'm making your sample, it does look more finished when we have the custom zipper pull or the custom plate or the heat stamp. But those little things matter and they take time. When they're custom they take time. So I'd like a client to already decide you know, am I doing a metal plate or a heat stamp, things like that? And then we should get those things kind of started.
Speaker 2:And will you have a conversation saying here is where you can save money and use what we have, versus here? I believe this is where you should be thinking. Custom, do you go through that? Oh?
Speaker 3:absolutely, I mean I.
Speaker 2:Because some people are crazy. They want custom everything and you're like but you don't. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. At this point I can source from everywhere.
Speaker 3:So I tell people straight up I can do sourcing of your hardware literally from New York 47th Street. I can have a source make it in Utah. I can make it in China, I can make it in Korea. I have a whole kind of price list. You know, if you do a lot of parts and we make it overseas, we can do it. If you want something beautiful made locally, there's a whole different price point to that. Yeah. So I would say you know what is it? Do you want just like a basic zipper pull with your logo? Do you want a basic logo? We can make those overseas, we don't need to invest in that here. But do you want something really special? Let's pick like one or two really special features and we can spend a little more and make it locally. It looks better, it's more artistic, it kind of stands out. So I kind of take them through this like this is how much a mold costs here and this is how much a mold costs here, and they kind of work it into their budget.
Speaker 2:I mean like I feel like we're going to need to have to do another, nicole, because I'm going to hold you captive and I know you've got things you've got to do and this has been long already. I think we're going to have to do like a handbag. State of the Union update.
Speaker 3:I'm not even kidding, I know, I know. When you messaged me I was like, oh my God, I want to speak to these brands so badly, Like I have so much to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're going to have to do this. We're going to have a by-call State of the Union update. I'm not even kidding, because the state in which things are moving and what's on trend and what you believe and I would love to do, like you know, a monthly update. I'm like here's what's going on with cow leather, here's what's going on with cow leather, here's what's going on with lambskin. And I just think there's so much education and there's nowhere to get it. And, as they say, an educated customer is one that makes your life that much better and it's. It makes them that much more successful. So when they come in and try to work with you, they say okay, I've listened to this, I know what you're looking for.
Speaker 3:I've wanted to, you know videotape like the little, not the little, it's long the education that I give to people that come in here, but I've been so busy.
Speaker 2:Well now, you can send this episode saying listen to this before you come. I'm not even kidding, because it's. It'll be there, you know, in perpetuity. As far as I'm concerned, nicole, how can we find you follow? You set up an appointment with you, you know, see that plant behind you. All that.
Speaker 3:So if you just Google ByCal, our Google page comes up. You can call the number on there. You can email the number on there, email the email on there.
Speaker 2:We have an Instagram Byicow Handbag Factory and can we work with you if we're not in New York?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. One of my favorite clients is in Seattle Perfect. She's about to launch her brand. I'm going to post it on our page. When she finally launches it, I'm going to post it on Bicow Handbag Manufacturing Instagram. But yeah, we have no problem working with people from different states. Different countries is a little complicated. It's a little trickier with shipping and communication, but definitely within, like our time zone the US time zones it's not been a problem at all.
Speaker 3:And I think it's pretty easy to get a flight to New York, so a lot of people just fly in or take a train in and leave. You know, make it worth their while I don't give everyone my cell phone number, but a lot of our great clients, you know, they just text me. Send me a picture of what's going on right now. Send me a quick video text. It's like very easy. Yeah, we also have a website, bagmancom and buycalhandbagscom.
Speaker 2:And that's B-A-I-K-A-L. I'm watching you spell it as I'm saying it back to you. Bye, cal Nicole. Thank you so much. I look forward to having you back for our follow-up. Handbags State of the Union.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, I'm excited. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and review, and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer. Thanks so much. See you next time.
