Excellence Foresight with Nancy Nouaimeh

Scaling Smart: Excellence through Systems, Innovation, and Grit with Jennifer Yeh

• Nancy Nouaimeh • Season 3 • Episode 11

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What happens when system thinking meets creative entrepreneurship? Jennifer Yeh's remarkable journey offers a masterclass in lean, strategic scaling. In just one year, she grew her photography platform Shoot from $800,000 to $10.1 million with a team of only 4-5 people, all while raising three children as a single mom.

The secret to this extraordinary growth lies in Jennifer's methodical approach to business processes. By meticulously documenting workflows, she uncovered inefficiencies, created opportunities for automation, and most importantly, empowered her team to think independently. "When we write things down," Jennifer explains, "it's very easy for us to see points of inefficiencies." This process-oriented mindset transformed potential bottlenecks into pathways for expansion.

Rather than viewing COVID-19 as an obstacle, Jennifer recognized it as an opportunity. When outdoor photo shoots became one of the few safe activities available, her team pivoted their photographer onboarding from in-person to virtual—reducing the time to expand into new cities from a week to just one day. This adaptability exemplifies her philosophy: "One of the things we're most scared of is getting too comfortable and getting stuck in the same way of doing things."

Jennifer's insights on team building are particularly valuable for founders seeking sustainable growth. She prioritizes shared values and problem-solving abilities over specific technical skills, noting, "If you have those main components, you can pretty much learn almost anything." This approach creates a cohesive culture where feedback flows freely and innovation thrives.

For entrepreneurs navigating today's landscape, Jennifer emphasizes hands-on experience with every aspect of your business, staying current with AI advancements, and maintaining self-awareness about your strengths and weaknesses. Her morning routine- waking at 5:30 AM for strategic planning- provides a template for maintaining focus amid competing demands.

Connect with Jennifer on Instagram @ShoottPhotos or visit shoott.com to explore how her system thinking approach might transform your own venture.

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Nancy Nouaimeh:

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Excellence Foresight Podcast, where we explore the future of excellence, innovation and culture through the lens of both thinkers and doers. I'm your host, Nancy Nouaimeh, and today's guest is someone whose journey is as inspiring as it is instructive. She's a system thinker, a doer, a disruptor. In just one year, she scaled her business Shoott from $800,000 to $10.1 million, with a team of just four to five operators. Welcome, Jennifer Yeh.

Jennifer Yeh:

Thank you so much for having me.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

All right, it's a pleasure. So let's start by you telling us a little bit more about yourself.

Jennifer Yeh:

Yes, so right now I am a single mom to three kids while juggling, you know, a startup I I still consider a startup because we are so you know very much bootstrapped. We've been around for almost seven years now, but we still operate very much with the startup mindset in terms of how we operate, how efficient we are and how much we really try to be mindful about our expenses and just being really efficient in everything that we do.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I like your focus on efficiency. So when you started Shoot, if you can go back a little bit to the origin what were you trying to achieve when this idea came from?

Jennifer Yeh:

Yeah, so there were kind of two parts to it. My other co-founder, whose name is also Jen. We really started off as more creatives. She was also an actor and I did a lot of things with, like graphic design or designing dresses for children. So we really came from the world of being creative and trying to find a way to do what we love full time. So after I became a mom, another thing that many families do is get photos done, and I quickly realized how inaccessible it was because it was so expensive. So when we got together, we started brainstorming about ways to work together and she actually bought the idea first, because I was working corporate at the time. And our other co-founder, her, had, you know, also talked about this, this problem that we were seeing. And there's another.

Jennifer Yeh:

There was another company in europe that was doing something similar to what we were doing now and we were like, hey, that's actually a pretty good idea. I think people in the us would love it, which is basically making photography a lot more accessible to families and improving the gig economy. So we were like, oh, we can. And we, you know, obviously modified the model a bit. So we were like, hey, maybe we can make the gig economy better for photographers by basically aggregating all the demand. A lot of photographers. What they end up doing is they have to go from one place to another and it's really inefficient and it's really difficult to make a living out of that or make decent enough money to still be able to do that as something that they love. So we wanted to solve that and obviously then, on the flip side, making photography more accessible in the form of free photo shoots for people.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

That's amazing. Jennifer, if I want to ask you about going back a little bit, you had this big growth right, Huge growth. So what are the moments that really made the difference in your growth journey?

Jennifer Yeh:

Yes. So I would say there were a couple moments, the first one actually being COVID. So when COVID hit, you know, we were like, oh no, what is that going to do to our demand? What are we going to do? But what we quickly realized was that actually, our model of outdoor photo shoots was one of the few activities that people actually could safely participate in. So we were like, great, that solves that problem. But prior to that, so we were like great, that solves that problem.

Jennifer Yeh:

But prior to that, as we were expanding in the US, we were going to each city to open up a city, to meet the photographers and all of that, to even offer it to clients. And we're like how do we do that? We don't want to fly during this period. And we basically were able to come up with a way to have a very strong vetting process to hire photographers virtually, so being one of the only things that people can do during that time, and figuring out a more efficient process to open up new cities that might actually lead to exponential growth during COVID. Yeah so, and I think the the up the other, the other pivotal moment would be, I would say, when ios uh, the ios privacy changes came live online. That was when we really had to really change course and how we did marketing, because it was no longer easy for us to find the right people to market our services too yeah, I think that's.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I think COVID has opened some opportunities for some people, while I mean it was really very challenging for others, and I think you were able to seize that opportunity, which is very nice and nice to see. And our podcast is about excellence, and I think a lot of things is about how we put things together right and how we find the right ideas, but also the right systems to make those ideas and put them into practice. So I think when we were preparing for the podcast, we spoke a little bit about system thinking and, in addition to, I mean, to your experience in Shoot and how you make that scaling up, can you give us some like three most valuable lessons you've learned from that intense growth journey you've had?

Jennifer Yeh:

Yeah.

Jennifer Yeh:

So I would say I think one of the things that was most important for us was really having good process documentation and going through the process of process documentation, because what we found when we did that is one we got a much clearer picture about how people on our team were approaching their work streams, and because once we do that and once we write things down, it was very easy for us to see points of inefficiencies.

Jennifer Yeh:

We're like, oh, why are you doing things different this way? Actually, we can do it differently by either automating to make your life easier or hey, maybe this isn't the best way to go about it. So that was really important, because sometimes, when we're so busy just executing, we don't think about whether or not, if this is the best way right, and that makes a huge difference. And also, by going through that with people on our team, they were able to really see how we think and make decisions, which then empowers other people to think more like us, so that we're not always the sole decision maker and become, you know, the roadblocks to moving things forward. Amazing, yeah, go ahead.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I'm hearing you and I'm talking how she must have had classes in quality and lean and how to reduce weight, because all that you're explaining is really, really amazing how you're looking at efficiencies and trying to find better ways of doing things. So please go ahead, yeah yeah, for sure.

Jennifer Yeh:

So that's the first one, um, so the second one would actually be, uh, for us, like, making sure we had the right people on the team. So we real I mean, we started in the startup being completely new to the whole system, completely new to even hiring people, and I think with that, we've learned that having people with the right value, the same value system as us, was actually more important than people coming in with the exact skills that we need. Because for us, like, we very much value flexibility, you know, really growing and evolving, and people who love to solve problems and have good critical thinking skills. So if you have those main components, you can pretty much learn almost anything. So, but if you came with the skills and you don't have the same values, then we get into a lot of situations where we'll have a lot of conflict because we don't, you know, agree when we want to work, how we work together, how we take feedback. So that was also really important for us to be able to scale and and be successful.

Jennifer Yeh:

Um, and then, yeah, and I think along the same lines as that is, uh, really keeping an open mind on everything and uh, being open to learning and receiving additional information and then changing our mind and pivoting, if we needed to do that. I feel like, for us, one of the things we're most scared of is getting too comfortable and getting stuck in the same way of doing things, and that goes back into process evolution, right, like just because something worked one year ago doesn't mean it's still the best for now. There may be new technologies we can, you know, implement. So it's that constant, you know, reviewing and improving things as we go along.

Jennifer Yeh:

Kind of like being a human and growing right.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

Yeah, that's exactly what it is about, and I think you're talking about challenging the status quo, like it's important for any organization to keep evolving. We can't do this when you stagnate, you die. That's exactly the opposite. We need to be doing the opposite and I, like you spoke about the process, you spoke about the people, you spoke about adaptability, evolution, and I think these are very valuable lessons for startups especially, I think, jennifer. So thank you for sharing that with our listeners. And do you have a small team? So it could be really a blessing to have small teams, but sometimes it could also be. It has its own challenges right To keep them motivated, to keep them innovative. So how do you keep that innovation alive with such a small team?

Jennifer Yeh:

Yeah. So I think a lot of it is that we so we're an entirely remote team. We don't have any physical office spaces, we have people spread all across the us and even canada, and we make sure that we always have regular touch points. I think having and not not having meetings for the sake of having meetings, but actually having meetings to talk through the things that we're seeing and even daily and weekly what we're doing that obviously keeps everybody on the same bus, so we all understand who's doing what. So we have a holistic understanding of everything works together.

Jennifer Yeh:

So, in line with that, in our meetings, when we give our updates, one thing that me and my co-founder always practice is we ask a lot of questions, and those questions would be like hey, so how did you make that decision? Why did you make that decision? And we're very direct about it. Right, and it's not to try to find anything wrong with how they're making decisions, but it is to discuss like hey, one, maybe that that's a great way to approach it. Everybody can learn from the way you were approaching that problem.

Jennifer Yeh:

Or it could be like hey, when you say that that's a great way to approach it, everybody can learn from the way you were approaching that problem. Or it could be like, hey, when you say that that's actually something we might be able to solve. So then they start getting an idea of what, for example, what tech is able to do, what is actually possible, so that in the future, when they come across another challenge similar to that, they know to speak up and say like, hey, this is taking me a really long time, I think that might be possible to automate this, or do you think it's possible to do this so that I can focus on something else? So all of that is a lot of like open communication and transparency into how we think and how we communicate, so that when we solve problems, we get better at doing it together and thinking along the same vein.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

So, yeah, we had an episode earlier about the art of asking good questions and I think asking questions to people that helps them to open up, to share what comes to their mind, and I think it's a great way to start a conversation.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

And I see a lot in what you've done is just not just about creativity, about finding a good model, but also being able to manage the people in the right way, in an engaging way, Jen, and I think there's a lot of good lessons here for our listeners. And do you remember anyone? Like one example, specific example of creative idea that made really a pivot in what you're doing and make significant impact? Not just your original idea behind Shud, but something that you've done during those seven, past seven years?

Jennifer Yeh:

Yeah, so I can think of two things. So I? The first one is definitely when we were able to reconstruct our process for hiring photographers from in person to virtual, because that literally changed from it would take us a week to travel to the new city to meet them, test shoot them to literally we can put up a city within like a day. So that that was huge right, because that enabled us to grow very, very quickly. And that did come from a time where we're like, oh no, how are we going to do this? And then my other co founders like, wait, can we, can we try? Is there a way to do this virtually? And I think a lot of this is what I mean about keeping your mind open. A lot of people may have been like, hey, you know, no, we have to meet them. We're like, hold on, if we just tweak the process, add a few more steps, and here are the questions, here are the things we ask them to do I think we could actually figure out a way to be able to assess them in a way that is the same as meeting them in person. So that was huge.

Jennifer Yeh:

And then I think the second thing that really helped us be successful is that in all aspects of our of our business, we've done and we've learned. So, for example, we, in the very beginning, we did customer service for two years and because we did that, once we were, uh, got more of a team together, we were actually able to hand that off to, you know, our director of customer service. Because we knew what was involved so that when we were helping him, you know get settled in and you know determining work the best. We knew what we were talking about and we weren't just relying on him telling us and maybe he didn't have that much experience in certain platforms and we don't get bamboozled by other vendors and marketing.

Jennifer Yeh:

People come like, oh, we can do this and promise these big things. We knew what questions to ask because we've been there and we know what we're looking for. So I think that's really important and that's also really important in terms of marketing. So we actually did marketing on our own for a very long time. So we knew all the ins and outs of how to execute it, what all the different strategies there were outside. So then when we're ready to bring an agency, we weren't going to be, you know, like you know, wowed by whatever metrics and marketing sales pitch they had, Like, like you know, wowed by whatever metrics and marketing sales pitch they had, like we would be able to tell like who's who actually knows what they're doing, who can actually deliver, instead of just believing whatever you know pitch deck they were trying to sell us.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I'm gonna share a secret with you. When you send me first your profile about truth and stuff, I was a little bit hesitant, but now, hearing you explaining how you do things, I think you're a great example of excellence in managing companies and managing people, and I think having that open mindset is very important. And as managers, I think there's sometimes they create distance between them and their team and what they're doing, but you're hands on. I think being really involved in everything gives you the depth and the right understanding of how things should work so you can take the right decision.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I'm really enjoying our discussion here, jennifer, and I think there's a lot that our listeners would be taking out of it. So we spoke about a little bit innovation and the team and team management and creativity. Going back to your beginnings and what you've done during your growth and scaling up. What are what's? What advice would you give to a founder or someone who's looking to scale smartly today, now, after the COVID now we've had the learning from the COVID, but definitely I think they need to continue that.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

But what are new?

Jennifer Yeh:

the new things or new advice you would give them at this stage yeah, I think a lot of it is sort of what I said before. So one thing is making sure that you actually know how every part of your business works right. You've at least touched it a little bit. Even accounting we've touched it. So now we know how to find the right account. So I think that's important. You know to get your hands dirty and not to be afraid to do that.

Jennifer Yeh:

And I think when you do that, you also figure out where your strengths and weaknesses are. You may be surprised to be like, oh, I'm actually really good at this. And then maybe that's something you should keep for now. And the other things you're like, oh, I'm really bad at this, and that's where you know, then you should go find somebody else to do that for you, Right? And then I think the other thing is, especially with the way you know things are going now, technology wise, really staying on top of AI.

Jennifer Yeh:

So one thing that my co-founder, I, do if there is like an AI conference or whatever, we always attend those, even if it's virtual, put it on the background, listen to it, because obviously AI is going, it helps us make our work more efficient and enhances our work. But if we don't stay on top of that because it's evolving all the time. We're going to miss out. And having that also helps our um. You know, team members work more efficiently, which means they can either do more or they can have more time to themselves.

Jennifer Yeh:

So I think all of that like we definitely don't see ai as a way to, like you know, replace people because honestly, like if you've worked with it, ai is only as good as a person using it. So you know, a lot of it's like we're learning about how to use it better, right? How do we make our jobs easier to automate and do the kind of monotonous tasks that nobody wants to do, right? Or the tasks that we've already made the decision we can train it to do, to become an extension of us, so that we can focus on the more creative, the newer, the strategy behind what's going to really push our business to the next level. So I think those two things, obviously they kind of go hand in hand. You can't really implement AI unless you really understand how everything in your business works. Otherwise, you're going to suggest something that's really out of context or that's just not possible and it's going to frustrate everybody.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I like this, like AI becoming an extension of us, and I think this is where people sometimes miss the point right. They either are too scared to use it or they don't know how to use it, but there are definitely great benefits of doing it right and using it in the right way. And then Defonit, I'm going to challenge you a little bit. When you said, like people need to know their strengths and weaknesses, a lot of people don't know how to look at their weaknesses. They're even scared. They don't have the right self-awareness about their own weaknesses and maybe their business's weaknesses. So do you have any advice to give to people to look at those weaknesses? We call them now in our terminology an excellence or opportunities for improvement, rather than weaknesses, because just to go from what people think about them. But what advice would you give someone who has a challenge admitting?

Jennifer Yeh:

yeah, yeah, that's a really great question. So I'll say two things. One is definitely have a therapist. I think having a therapist everybody should have one anyway but that's very, very helpful in terms of having a third party objective view. When you're talking about things, you're going through work, and I think the second thing is when you're talking about things you're going through work. And I think the second thing is when you're to be conscientious, when you're when you're working and learning, right, so as you're learning, you're not just trying to learn, you're also kind of keeping tabs and asking yourself questions like how do I feel about this right now? Do I wonder my feelings? Do I feel excited? Do I feel frustrated? And then from there, because your feelings are good, kind of starting point to help point in the right direction If you're frustrated. If I'm frustrated, why is that? Is it because I really hate, for example, like talking to vendors? It gives me anxiety, or I hate it because this UI is just really frustrating, right.

Jennifer Yeh:

So really kind of always be analyzing and reviewing why you feel a certain way, or like why something took you so long. So I do this usually like either ongoing or at the end of the day, when I kind of think back during my day. It's like you know what really went well, what did I really enjoy? Enjoyment is a really good indicator of you. Know, maybe something that you're good at, right, naturally good at, and then if I don't feel like I'm good at something, then I, you know, really analyze like is it because I feel like this is something that I'm? It's not in my nature to like to do so?

Jennifer Yeh:

For example, I'm not always great with like conflicts and talking to people about performance improvement plans. Right, where is that coming from? Right? Is that something I can actually train and learn? Is? Is there a process to actually do the thing and get better, or is it really something that isn't? It is not necessarily quote worth, worth my time to try and improve right now because somebody else on my team is naturally good at that, right. So a lot of like seeking that out, seeing like you can't be everything to everyone and you can't improve everything all at once. So a lot of that's like, hey, I want to get better at this, but maybe not right now, but I can work on it in small steps. So it's a lot of systems thinking for individuals, right, and then planning that out and see what's actually realistic and what's not.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

That's great advice, and you do a lot of things having a startup and a small team, definitely you'll be doing a lot of things yourself. So what is your go-to system to stay focused?

Jennifer Yeh:

and make sure that you get the results when you're focusing very early in the morning. I wake up about 530am and not to exercise, but actually because I am in so many meetings during the day, I find that I actually need like self quiet time to kind of think through everything that I want to think through Right. So a lot of that for me. Like at the beginning of each day I actually plan out my day and I do this by first writing like just kind of brainstorming and dumping everything that is on my mind that's been bothering me or that I want to get done, and that can be anything from personal to work, because, let's face it, when you're working at home you're going to be distracted by things you need to do at home. So I put down everything you know into a list and then I basically look at my calendar, look at all the meetings I have stacked and I put that in the calendar. So I know where the gaps are. And once I have those gaps, I go back into my list and I basically prioritize like which ones do I have to do Right? And when I make those decisions I base it on like well, what are our company goals? Right, our company goes right now. Are there things that are on fire that I have to do? That obviously they're the most important things.

Jennifer Yeh:

Then there are overall goals and we do this, um, pretty regular on the basis. We're always evaluating, like, what are we trying to achieve this year, right? So for us, if it's like, hey, we just need to get enough photographers, you know, on board, then that helps shape what I should do next on my list work-wise, like, oh, then I should focus on where do we try to, you know, market, to photographers to join our team, right, things like that. And then, as I have these priorities laid out, then I'm able to basically schedule them into those blank spots in my schedule to be like okay, now, from you know, nine to 10 is where I'm going to focus on this particular task. And when I do that, when I'm doing the task, I don't feel the burden of having to worry about oh, my gosh, I need to remember to do X, y and Z, because I know that I've already scheduled time to think about that, so that I can actually be present and work on it and be really focused.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

That's a great time management. I think I'm learning a few things from you here. I'm usually organized, but I think there's a few things that I can really add to my the way I'm doing things. So that's amazing, um, so, um, jennifer, I just wanted to um, we spoke about we didn't plan to spoke about family, but you mentioned you have three kids and I always admire working mom because there's a lot. I think we know the challenges right. Uh, so we, we can directly relate to that. Um, do you want to say anything about about the, your kids and what you're learning maybe from them? Because I learned a lot from mine yeah.

Jennifer Yeh:

So, uh, I would say, raising kids and and managing people on your team, there's a lot of similarities, I would say, especially when it comes to so. So obviously with your kids there's a lot of similarities, especially when it comes to so. So obviously with your kids it's a lot more personal right, and a lot of times it's easy to want to impose your own sort of agenda for them and obviously there's some guide rails that you have to provide them. But I think at the end of the day, kind of like a business, to stay open minded, it's like seeing, like for my kids, for example, like seeing where their strengths and weaknesses are and then debating like, is this weakness something that's just inherently them? Is it worth trying to improve or not? And then, when further strengths, like well, how can I encourage that? Right. And so that's very similar to how we work with our people, right. Like again, strengths and weaknesses, how do we do that? Because in that you're also empowering them, helping them grow, and as they grow as human beings, they're going to add that back to the company. And obviously with kids you want them to grow into self-sufficient adults who are great for the community.

Jennifer Yeh:

So that kind of aligns right and I think kind of the overarching theme in that is also communication.

Jennifer Yeh:

So I feel like communication skills is so important, like not just for relationships and for working environments and not just like positive communication but also like conflict resolution. Working through that is so, so important and vital to everything that we do. And then communication in that, but also helping people articulate what they're thinking, what their process is, you know for kids, like why they did what they do or you know what they're struggling with. Because not only again does that help with self-growth and team growth, but it helps with AI, because I will say, when you're prompting AI, if you can't articulate well, you're not going to get a great result Right? So I think it all ties in together. So, even though AI can help us or they say they can help us communicate or do things faster, in the end that human element of being able to articulate those thoughts in everything that we do, I think is really the baseline of what drives quality and success, right. If you can't do that, you're not going to be able to get anywhere.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I totally agree with you and I think all what you're saying is really about having also a growth mindset, but also being able to use the tools that we have, and an ai is a tool for us. I mean it's it's going to blend more, I think, than any other tool with what we're doing, but definitely there's a big advantage in using that. I would do it using, using it right again. So we have to focus on that aspect of what do you feed AI? You will get out of it. So what questions you ask, how you ask your questions, you're gonna get the answers relevant to that. So thank you for this, and I would like to start wrapping up our discussion just with a small now question. If I tell you excellence in one word, what is excellence for you in one word? I would say communication. Starting to feel more and more communication is really the key to excellent relationships excellent outcomes, everything yeah absolutely yeah, jennifer, thank you so much.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

I've learned a lot from you. I enjoyed our discussion. It was really an honest, powerful discussion, and your journey is a reminder that system thinking isn't just for engineers and everything we're doing. It's the heartbeat of the sustainable growth of any organization. I thank you a lot for sharing honestly with our listeners your story, and I would like to ask you where can people connect with you or follow what's next with Shoot?

Jennifer Yeh:

Yes, so you can follow us on Instagram. We're under the tag Shoot Photos, so S-o-o-t-t photos. You can also go online on our website at shootcom and you can go to our about us page. You can see where I'm on linkedin. You can connect with me there. My co-founder and I also, um you know, do a lot of consultations virtually for people who are looking for maybe more specific advice on what they're trying to do. So you can find us on linkedin with that and book a call with us. But yeah, otherwise, if you go on our socials, we're very easy to find that's great.

Nancy Nouaimeh:

This is what this was an amazing discussion, jennifer, thank you very much. Thank you for what you're doing, and I wish you all the best in your journey and to our listeners. Please remember excellence in the a mindset and, most importantly, it's a set of robust systems that you put in place, similar to what Jennifer explained to us about how she does things. Until next time, keep shifting towards impact and tune in to our next episode. Thank you.

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Nancy Nouaimeh

Host
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Jennifer Yeh

Guest