Awakening Myths Exposed With Angelo DiLullo

In this episode of Awakening Now, I sit down with Angelo DiLullo to explore the myths that quietly shape how people think awakening is supposed to unfold.

We look at the belief that awakening should resemble someone else’s story, feel pleasant, bring special abilities, or resolve the human experience once and for all. Angelo points directly to how these expectations form without being questioned — and how they create unnecessary confusion when real experience doesn’t match spiritual narratives.

We also explore the myth that something has gone wrong when awakening feels difficult, and the assumption that safety or stability must be established before truth can be seen. Rather than offering new ideals, the conversation stays close to what is actually happening in the body, emotions, and daily life.

This episode is for those who feel sincere in their inquiry yet unsure why things don’t look the way they expected. It’s an invitation to notice what may already be quietly obvious when comparison, fantasy, and self-judgment fall away.

About the Guest:
Angelo DiLullo, MD, is an anesthesiologist, spiritual teacher, and author. Following a profound awakening at age 24, he recognized how thoughts shape perception and that suffering is not inherent to life. Since then, he has guided others toward the recognition of natural, non-separate awareness.

Music by Valdi Sabev, Visit his channel for more calm and relaxed music 
https://www.youtube.com/c/ValdiSabev/featured

Transcript

You are listening to awakening now podcast. This podcast is dedicated to a sincere seeker going through a process of awakening. And here we cover all kinds of topics from what happens before, during, and after the shift. My name is Ilona Ciunaite. I am a guide and author and co-creator of the liberation unleash community. And if you are going through the process of awakening, you are in the right place. This show is for you. Today I sit down with Angelo Dilullo again. And if you are a sincere seeker, you know this name. It doesn't need to be introduced. He's one of most helpful practical guides that I came across. And I really enjoyed this conversation that we had about the myths of awakening. So this is episode 121, myths of awakening exposed with Angela Dilullo. And here we talk, we discuss all kinds of ideas and expectations that the seeker has about what should happen, how it will happen, how it will feel, what should change, what kind of shift it brings. And it's a very important conversation because you may recognize that some ideas and stories you are believing that it's not how things are. Enjoy the show.

Very warm welcome, Angelo. Such a pleasure to talk to you again. Thanks for having me back. Interesting how I I contacted you because it came to me through a dream and the dream was hilarious. So, are my girls again? I want to hear about it. So, I'm in some town walking down the road and I hear your voice somewhere. Seems like there is some uh parlor there or some kind of shop. And I see, "Yay, Angelo, they're working shaping women's eyebrows." You know, it only costs $1,000 a pair. I thought it was such a funny dream that I emailed you or messaged you. So, maybe it's time to shape the eyebrows. you know, if this career fails, then maybe I will consider it. Oh, yeah. Well, it's a good, you know, doesn't take long for $1,000.

So, thanks to that dream, we are here today and it just brought back to me how how well our last talk was received on my channel. So everyone was touched by it seemed like and it was the most viewed interview or conversation so far. So you are the star on the show. I'm glad your audience got something out of it. Yeah. Sweet. And I have it. I try to be pragmatic and give give good give practical advice or actionable sort of advice. That's kind of how I try to gauge my conversations or messages. So yes and that's why I thought the topic of the myths is going to be very practical and very useful as you know everyone comes in into seeking with a ton of expectations because there's so much information so much available to read and listen watch and including you including me and so many others and you want it or not you build your own image of how it should be. So I thought why not to explore these myths with you? And so my first question would be um what is the most usual myth that people come to you with?

Yeah. Well, there are so many. So let me think about it. Okay. Let me let me feel into this. Yeah. Um

I think the I think the I don't know if it's the most common but one of the most um I would say sort of sticky pervasive and it takes some time to see through often for people is I don't know if it's a myth as such like a belief that that somebody has adopted at some point. It's more like the the nature of human interaction that that gives rise to this. But I if I were to state it like a belief, it would be the belief that when you listen to something like me talking about awakening or non-duality or you or anyone or Echartole or whoever when you listen to it, the myth would be that the way you're receiving their information, their mapping, their descriptions is the way it needs to look for you. That's a mistake because it won't look that way for you. Rather, I try I try and I say this in different ways to people as I speak, but rather if you can look for resonance, it's a it's a felt sense. Um, that's all that's all I can give you. That's all I can like I can transmit a kind of resonance. Maybe that's it. That's enough. It's powerful. It can be very powerful, but it's not I'm not saying, "Hey, this is what your awakening needs to look like. This is what your journey needs to look like. this is what your end of seeking needs to look like. And it's easy to transmit a map to somebody that they they hold in their mind and they compare their experience to the map. And it can look like anything. Can look like talking about awakening. It can look like talking about no seeking. It can talk it can look like it's just this like any of those things can be turned into maps, right? So the the the myth would be that the way you're hearing it through language, which is the best I have in this moment. Well, I have body language and movement and so forth, but language is transmitting a lot or is communicating a lot. That's the best thing I have, though. And that's not what's actually being talked about. What's being talked about is what that language points back to in me. And what it points back to in me is what where you and I are not too where in fact you and I don't exist as individuals in any way at all. So, it's really more of a resonance or a feeling in. If you if you get a a if you kind of grock a a resonance with what I'm saying in this moment or in any moment or you or anyone else, that's what matters. It's like tune into that that resonance, that feeling more or that or maybe it's like more than a feeling. It's different than a feeling. It's an openness or a kind of breaking through to something that feels a little bit more like wonder or my mystery or awe. That's really what I'm conveying. And and it and also it's okay if if you do adopt a map and your mind's going to do some of this, right? The thoughts do this. They build maps. And so that's going to happen simultaneously and that's okay too. But over time, I just really try to encourage people to start turning toward that resonance or just try start trusting that resonance. And the more you trust it, the the more profound it gets and the more mysterious it gets. And the more you realize you can like really just open to it and then the whole seeking you know mental constructs about awakening and non-duality and spirituality all that stuff you see is it's just a bunch of thoughts right and and you you can just drop into that deep resonance with reality and that will that voice of resonance that signature will get more and more clear to you over time and it may happen suddenly at times you may have a sudden shift you may have very slow kind of transformation or you may just suddenly see like oh oh it's just this like in a very very clear way and you can see a thought is only a thought you know and a thought of self is a thought of self a thought of separation is a thought of separation but it doesn't actually refer to my direct experience whatever this direct experience is doesn't have any of that in it just this it's very clear unequivocal that's that's that's kind of where it'll land at some point and then it's you see that the resonance always was that the resonance that was kind of leading you along all or orienting you to that resonance always was just reality unfiltered by thought unfiltered by mind. So, I think that's probably the biggest or at least a very common one that's a little sticky is that people because of doubt, because of self-doubt and so forth and because of the nature of thought. Tend to hear what I'm saying, turn it into a map, and then compare their experience to the map, and they go, "Oh, I must not have it yet. It doesn't sound like what Angelo said or it doesn't sound like what Elona said, or it doesn't sound like what Rupert said or whatever." It it it it won't you will go off the map with this and there's good news and it won't look like any map of your own even it it's just in sense it's uncharted territory all the time but there's a deep piece in that as well. So that's one. I don't know if if that's something you would Yeah, I enc I encounter that a lot. But but it's just natural how the mind works and how it creates all these kind of ideas about something that we don't know until we know and when we know it's not what we thought. So I think I think this myth of how it should be, it has to go first.

If I don't know how this should be, it can be anything. It can be like this moment right here, right now. But if I think I know how it should be because Angela said so or the Ashanti said so, then it will never happen.

You know, sometimes people come and say, "Yeah, but Ekar to sat on a bench for two years." Yes, he did. Do you want that? Are you a toilet? Thank God you're not. Yeah. You know, I've I've had this conversation with people a few different times that it goes like this, and it's really quite funny. They'll they'll actually have a shift in identity. They'll have a clear awakening shift. And then after it, they'll say they'll be like, "At first, I didn't know if this was accurate." be they'll say I don't I wasn't sure because this doesn't sound like what that person described or that person described and yet and so they they they'll say something like you know so I really was like questioning and yet the clarity just kept coming and it became more and more clear and then they describe their experience right now they'll they'll describe it and I'll say okay do you realize the thing you just said someone's going to listen to that later and go but my awakening didn't sound like that and yet what they just said is actually rather remarkable so there's Something also funny about this in that when you transmit through direct insight, even if just after an initial awakening, when you transmit that way and speak, people feel it. They feel it and it's so obvious to them that they almost impute a specialness onto it that's it's not really special. Like it's it's remarkable. It's profound. It's natural. It's expansive. It's interpenetrated and and all that has like some remarkable qualities, but it it's not special in the way that the self wants to be special. The the seeming separate me wants to be special. So So I think that's part of it as well. And when people actually have that shift, sometimes they will say like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I it's clear as day." Like it's so clear and yet I can see how it didn't sound like what you'd said or what he said or she said, and yet I know it's the same thing. So it's kind of funny and a little bit ironic sometimes when that happens

but there is that sense of freshness or uniqueness in that expression not in words I mean words we all have limited words there are no more words than we have and just but there's this sense of freshness when it's being described when it's being seen especially for the first time it's like wow something amazing happens. Yeah. Yeah. The freshness is a very good word for it. Um Yeah. When I say it, it's not an it. It's just reality, but or it's whatever it is. But, uh but freshness is good in that it's like you never have to brace yourself anymore. You never have to be ready anymore. Being ready is holding back. you, you know, I think Dogen has a quote somewhere, being ready is already too late or something. It's like we don't realize we're like, and it's all thought- based. We're kind of holding back a little bit from everything, from life, from ourselves, from even relationship and very conventional things. And when you feel the release, it's like, oh, the freshness means that every moment is actually fresh. Really, it really actually is. It's like this is literally just coming into being or just coming into appearance. And that is fresh like it's simple. I use the terms like spontaneous sometimes because it it's just this spontaneity simple natural

non-accumulating. Nothing's accumulating. Nothing's held or stored or um and there's no anchor point. No need for an anchor point of any kind at all.

Yeah. Like this moment right now there is no script. Mhm. Yeah. So, whatever comes through comes through. That's what it is. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. How about other myths? Oh, there's so many. One myth I I encounter a lot is that, you know, once I'm awakened, I one need to feel all these uncomfortable emotions and I just going to get like a ticket out of the prison of my own.

shadows or whatever like oh my god it's going to fix my life and I will be happy ever after people don't say these words but that's a hidden expectation you know

eternal peace no disturbances not like peace with whatever is happening it's peace from disturbances from annoyances from grief from sadness from whatever uncomfortable things people want to run away from. Mhm. Do you find that? Yeah, that's a good distinction that it's not pe It's true. There is peace. The peace is within the conditions. The peace is within the experiences regardless of how they present, but it's not peace as a result of not having to feel it. Like it, you know, that that's really a distortion. And you know, I get it. I understand. Especially after you've had an awakening of some kind, a shift, an insight that's thorough, you know, and felt to the deepest level. It's like you've been in the desert a long time and you finally found water and you want to just keep drinking that water. And that's good to to a point, you know, until you're starting to almost and I think what actually happens is thought kind of sneaks in still. Like it kind of says, "Oh, I don't have to, you know, that that's not that's not happening. that's not happening and I can just be in bliss. And it's like, yeah, but are you feeling angry right now? Because if you are, maybe you should just feel it. You know, are you feeling grief right now? Um, and so you realize, at least I realized all of the reasons I had to wake up, the suffering was so gritty and so intense for me. And I my interpretation of what was causing the suffering was wrong. Actually it was the suffering was itself the discomfort but my interpretation of what was causing it emotion and like the complete immersion into this flux of experience of being in a body being a human whatever it is that I there was some part of me that actually believed that was what was causing the suffering but it turns out it's not. So all of the in the textures of being alive in motion and so forth, you ultimately will wake up within that as well. It's like there's a shanti has a nice way of like breaking this out that awakening has two phases like up and out and down and in. And I agree with that. There's a feeling of yeah up and out like expansiveness consciousness you know that and it is kind of has a blissful sort of equinimity but at some point yeah the the intensity of emotion and sensation comes and all of it and at some point you real hopefully you realize like oh that expansiveness is also the going in and so I might call that integration and disintegration interpenetrated masculine and feminine interpenetrated They're like, you could say they're like two movements that turn out to be the same interplay that that you can go down into anything just as readily as coming up and out of it. At some point without the self structure in the way, you see those are not two. The only thing that can make those seemingly two is is a an illusion of self. Strangely, that's what I find. Without that, it's like magic. Like things can be simultaneously empty and totally full. things can be simultaneously gritty and intensely textured and energetically powerful moving through the body mind or whatever it is and also there's no body there's no form it's totally formless and there's no one suffering from that so that can all happen simultaneously without the that illusion the fundamental illusion of separate self yeah because what shifts is where we are looking from like if I'm looking from an idea or belief structure that here's me inside the body moving it doing it. I'm trapped. I need to get out. But it's just stepping back a little bit and then back and back. There's nothing is trapped. Nothing needs to get out. Nothing needs to awaken.

Just being here. Yeah.

And then all these movements can go can come and go and everything's welcome. That's that's another thing. There's just a beginning of undoing unwinding.

There's so much movements. All these all these ideas need to leave and all these structures need to restructure, realign, readjust. But with all that there is this beauty of knowing that it takes care of itself.

Yeah, I agree. The realignment, restructuring is perhaps that's what initially is the challenge because it's actually a very powerful process. And if you're trying to be some small me or something apart from it or control the process or control the spiritual journey or whatever you think you're in control of and it doesn't even have to be in a spiritual context. We have control issues around all kinds of things. Our own health, the relationships, all of it. when you start to give the reigns over to whatever you're giving the reigns over to meaning trusting that the realignments natural actually in the way you just said um that's a powerful sort of maturing place I think in realization where you really start to surrender really start it's a vulnerable place it's a surrendered place and it also paradoxically has this it's a kind of powerful place in that you're getting out of the way and letting the real power come through which is beyond what you consider yourself to be. Has to be because what you consider yourself to be is very small, separate from everything. Like of course it's not real, but it it feels so contracted and small and you know when you really start letting go of that and realize the power that thing thought it wanted even though it didn't really exist. um was really fractured and it was connected to a lot of misinterpretations about separation distinctness

and what comes of that is selfing selfing seeking however you want to say that. So when you realize like that's not what power really is. Power is nature in a sense or power is whatever this is. Um, and it it's amazing what it does. Every moment actually what appears it's it's truly astounding for me. It it's humbling too in a way like uh yeah, it's it's kind of compelling you to surrender again and again and again. Um until until the sense of surrendering in any way even just gets completely dissolved into it. You know, it's like, yeah, it's like putting pouring dye into a giant pool or something and at some point it's just dispersed in the entire pool or um you know, something like that. Yeah, nicely said. Love it.

I think I should also say, okay, sorry. in in my experience the this the self Oh, go ahead. Were you gonna say something? Yeah, I was going to say about the next myth, but you carry on.

Yeah, this this is one actually. It's this has a little bit to do with human psychology. It's selection bias. Mhm. So people often will self- select themselves to a certain type of teacher, a certain type of group and a or even a certain tradition like Zen or Zogchan or whatever. Or maybe totally opposite of that. They only want online dharma. They're not interested in any kind of it has to be totally secular or even scientific. But but my point is because of the different personality structures and even potentially like trauma patterns, people will self- select to certain teachers, groups, or traditions. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But at some point, it's helpful to question that sometimes because you what what can happen is you put yourself into a group that reinforces the biases you already have and don't don't want to see. So, this is one of the reasons that when I do what I do, whether it's talking on YouTube videos or in retreats, I'm not the kind of person that's insinuating in any way that like I I know the thing you need to know. I'm more like, "Try this person. Have you tried this? You've worked with a male facilitator? Have you tried a female facilitator? You've never been on a retreat ever? Try a retreat." You know, like I I give people suggestions and I try to give them bandwidth to like really challenge themsel. Sometimes you people get really in some kind of rut with with their thoughts and they'll say, "Oh, I've been working at this for 20 years in meditating. Nothing's happened." I'm like, "Well, what haven't you done? Been on a retreat? Have you worked directly with an awake facilitator that can push you or that can pull the rug for you?" You know, and so um yeah, so I think it's important to know that sometimes you have to think outside the box or work outside the box. You you have to be curious about your own biases. I think when especially if you're feeling really stuck or you're looping with this the whole thing, you listen to what we're talking about and yet fundamentally you really know you're just constantly suffering and lost in thoughts most of the day and all that. Try something different, you know. Um that that's and see if you're not using your own selection bias to only watch things a certain way where you can keep it in the safe container of the self that tells itself it's trying to get out of itself. You know what I mean? So sometimes you you really do have to pull find a way to pull your own rug or find someone else to help you pull it. Yeah. Because you need some kind of disruption to that that ego system. Yeah, I agree completely. And because you you you can be doing the same thing for 40 years and still be in the same place. I want to awaken. I can't awaken. But I think do you do you find that this is also connected to the self-worth in a huge way? Yeah. Because people have this an idea that I have to be worthy. I have to deserve it. If I meditate these many hours or if I do these many practices or if I listen to every video on YouTube, I will be deserving and worthy whatever. Because I think at the end of all of that, seeking is trying to find that you are okay, that you are worthy of this amazing things that other people are talking about.

Yeah, I I totally see that commonly. Um yeah, and and it's not always obvious to the person, although sometimes it is. Um, but I yeah, I sense self-doubt in that a lot. Um, or just I'm not worthy. Like you don't have to earn awakening, right? You don't have to earn reality. Reality is here already. It's it's more like stop telling stop believing so tightly that story that you're the one who can't get it or whatever the story is you're believing. Um, and so I agree with that. Uh I will also say that also gets built sometimes into complex interreational stuff with people and even in groups. The extreme example would be like a kind of culty group where there there's almost a cult dynamic. It's not just the cult leaders who's making that dynamic. It's everybody who's following them. The whole thing is is a kind of shared delusion and it has a lot of biases that are built into the people coming into it. So what I want to say, the reason I wanted to say that is the the feeling of the feeling of I'm not enough. I haven't earned it. I I'm not uh it's just kind of shame thing. It's often shared among groups of people or in relationship or in interaction styles. Um and seeing that can also help uh because it there's a little bit of competitiveness in it too sometimes. I've had people who are just like insisting that this has to go the way someone else described it. Like almost like they don't even want to hear me say it's not going to go the way someone else described it. It's going to go your way. Like no, but that it's they feel like that person has something I don't. If you think someone has something you don't, if that's prominent in your experience, really look into this. Like it's a competitive thing where it almost feels like to be to be worthy I have to get what they have or and What I want to say to that is this process is a very intimate personal process in in in that way. It's it's not a group thing. A group doesn't wake up. You know, SAS can be helpful, facilitators, all those things can be helpful for resonance and so forth, but it it really is a kind of solitary journey. So, for some people, what's really hard is actually letting go of the idea of where they fit in. letting go of the hierarchy thing, letting go of constant seeking for validation andor just constantly analyzing for where they get validated and where they don't and realizing that relational matrix we live in can be really hypnotic for people. Uh, and being willing to just let go of that part of yourself too that needs validation, that needs constant mirroring. And the reason is a lot of that mirroring is actually self mirroring. What's often mirrored from other people, especially people who are mind identified, is is like saying, "Hey, I'm a I'm a someone." And as long as you keep as long as you don't challenge that I'm a someone, I will also encourage you to be a someone, and we'll just keep pretending we're someone. I don't know if you've ever seen these kinds of relationships, but they're all all over the place. And it's also leading to another interesting issue is why when people are starting to really cl clear get clarity on this stuff physically and energetically and sematically and emotionally they often find it it can be hard to talk to people because people often want complicity. They're looking for complicity and you feel it. It's like but I can't give you complicity because I don't see a self. I don't experience a self. Right? So, so some of this stuff is relational and the worthiness issue does play into relationality sometimes. And so, again, it's just something to investigate in yourself if you really feel stuck. Um, if you really feel like I'm just not worthy, like I just don't feel like I'm worthy of this somehow. Maybe Angela was, maybe Elona was, maybe so and so was, maybe this person was, but somehow I just don't feel like I've earned it yet. Or like look into that. What's the unworthiness about? And does it relate to others? Does it relate to a group you're in? Does it relate to your the parenting style you grew up with? Like this is shadow work, but it does come into play for some people. Yeah. And who decides who's worthy? I mean, what's the criteria compared to what? Like you're here. Exactly. You're here. That's it. That's enough. You're here. You're valid. You're true. You're alive. That's all that that counts. Everything else is a mental fog. and then trying to get out of that mental fog by becoming worthy. Does do you even know what that means? Being worthy. How would that look like?

Yeah.

Yeah. That it aligns with what I was saying earlier about this wanting to be special. Um, we don't realize like, you know, wanting to be special as a human among humans is also wanting to be separate and distinct and feel separate and distinct and be elevated somehow. And even if you do find specialness in a group or a situation or whatever, you're going to immediately fear having losing it because that specialness is totally artificial. It's, you know, it's it's the same as what you're talking about. It's the same as like worthiness, but it's you're it's like, "Oh, if I got the if I got the hyperworthiness somehow, and sometimes they project it onto me or you looking at a non-dual duality teacher, they're like, oh, that's what I want because look at all the people who listen to that. Look at all the people who validate that." And it's like, it's not that though. It's not about being special. It's not this insight, this transmission doesn't come from specialness at all. In fact, it comes from some sense that there is no, as you said, the the paradigm of of well, I'm using the term specialness, but the paradigm of worthiness or unworthiness is totally a mental paradigm. Like, you have to let go of all of it. When you let go of all of that paradigm of validation, worthy, unworthy, special, not special enough, you're going to enter some very mysterious territory very quickly if you just let it go right now, right? You can let this go right now. Anyone can, okay? And you're going to enter some mysterious territory. And some and that can come with fear. I should always point that out. You may actually feel a physical like, whoa, I'm really letting go. What's left? I don't know what's going to be left. I don't know what who I am. I don't know what's going to, you know, and all I can say is I'm not going to give you the answer because you don't need an answer. Just go. Just keep going. Just let let it go and see what's there. Yeah. When when I meet this question or desire to be special. I just say you are unique already. You know, there's nothing special about that. Everyone's unique. This form is unique. Like every leaf on the tree is unique. It's natural. There's nothing amazing about that or extraordinary. We all are unique. So just rest with that. Not the need to be special to be unique.

And whatever is showing up here is right.

Being special is just a game. Mental game. I'm better than you. And I don't know more achieved, more read, more retreats. Yeah, that's another thing is then people get addicted, let's say, to going to retreats. I met a few people who go and go and go and go and when when there is a next one and maybe the third one in a month,

it's a special retreat coming up.

Yeah, I I I also like to point out this um sense I have that anything we talk about anything I say like if you never have ever gone on a retreat and you feel like you're looping, try a retreat. Mhm. On the other hand, exactly what you're saying, you may use retreat as a kind of coping mechanism in your life without even realizing it or like it's almost like an avoidance. It could be potentially. So the point I want to make is there is this kind of middle way to this there that people can fixate a lot of different ways. They can fixate by overemphasizing a teacher and they can fixate by underemphasizing the role of any teacher. Be like, "Oh, I got to figure this out my own. It's all it's all me." You know? Um, so what I sense is really is fixation patterns and I try to kind of pull the rug on one end of it or I just make suggestions of like have you looked at it this way and try to move somebody a little bit more to the middle on things. Um, but I agree with you like you can I know people also who endlessly meditate or endlessly do psychedelics like any of these things can be fixation points. So, I've actually I've had times with people where I mean very established people and clear clear people where I've said I think you should take a month off and not do anything non-dual at all. Don't watch videos. Don't meditate. Don't do any of the normal things you do because I feel like the routine itself is is kind of holding a little bit of identity perhaps. That's just a sense I get with certain people and I you know they can do whatever they want. But I've I've made that suggestion before like maybe you should not watch any videos for a month and just see what happens. Should be totally natural you. So what you are talking about is really disrupting patterns and when when there is a disruption there is a discomfort. There is something to look at. There's something that is oh I haven't been here before. What's now? Uncertainty letting go surrendering. It all can happen when the patterns are disrupted.

Otherwise, it keeps keeps going. 40 years later, I'm still here. I'm not happy.

Yeah, that that brings up another reasonably common myth that sneaks in here and there. can be kind of situational, but it definitely sneaks in. And that is let's let's call it insight, awakening, realization, clarity, whatever you liberation, whatever you want to call it at whatever stage it seems to be. Those insights don't arrive only when you're in deep somati bliss, clear clarity. In fact, often they arrive when you feel the opposite. So the myth would be I feel like absolute crap. I'm I'm confused. I'm disoriented. I can't meditate. I can't sleep right now. I'm emotionally a mess. The belief is that means I'm not being spiritual right now or I'm not getting it or I'm not close or that's not true. Actually, you may be really close to just totally letting go right now because of the disruption. So, disruption is good in general. Now, again, people some people rarely can fixate in disruption. like they live a life of total chaos. And I might say you need a little bit maybe just try some little order there. But generally speaking, when disruption occurs or you feel disruption in your emotion system, disruption in sleep, disruption in practice, those are always opportunities to just look a little deeper. What's really going on here? Maybe I was identifying with a certain structure and that structure is collapsing. now is a really good opportunity to investigate the nature of who I think I am at all or identity itself in in real time. And the beauty of it is often when there is disruption, collapse of certain life structures, whatever it is, and this can be tragedy, it can be the loss of someone, it can be health, a health shock, it can be changing jobs, it can just be random things that happen like sleep patterns get really disturbed or you wake up every morning with some fear. These disruption patterns um are usually when something that was more complex starts to deconstruct. So the beauty of it is to to utilize it or um to

uh yeah, I'll just say utilize what I'm saying is that you don't need complexity. It's it's a simplicity thing. That's the beauty of it. Just trust that it's all perfectly okay. Trust that this is exactly where you need to be. Even though you feel confused, disoriented emotionally, maybe not super comfortable right now, that may be the perfect concoction you need or the perfect soup you need to look deeper into your identity right at this moment. So, so that the myth would be when things aren't going well, it means I'm far away from some insight or something. Not usually the case. People wake up all the time, have shifts all the time when they're in significant turmoil, confusion, disorientation.

So the myth is really that awakening is pleasant.

Yeah. Or Yeah, exactly that. Well, certainly that it's always pleasant. Um Yeah, it's wonderful except that it can be anything. Can be the highest high. It can be the lowest low. and all in between and

yeah but what about all these people in the list and they make videos and they tell us yeah but what happens five minutes after that nobody knows

I do say this sometimes like I I like to I like to meet people in person especially if somebody's like a non-dual facilitator or whatever I I like to meet them just because I you anyone can act any way they want on a video for 30 minutes like and whatever. Not not even if you're trying to act, but you're you're conveying a message and you're in a state of equinimity and calm because you're talking to a camera, but just spend two or three days around somebody. You'll know you'll know whether they've done the shadow work or not. You'll you'll feel it. You can feel if somebody's really at peace, somebody's really a quantumous. If they really interact with others in a fluid, natural way that shows a natural compassion, love, enjoyment, and non-selfishness. It's it's a clear clear real human litmus test for me sometimes if if if that realization itself has been really integrated into that person in in all areas of their life and which means mundane right like that that's that's sometimes a litmus test as well but I don't really know I mean you see people online and they they speak very clearly unless I see them in person and I can actually interact with them when their guard is down then I'll know whether their that insight has really thoroughly integrated And it has for many people. It's really cool to be around people that that have that kind of integration. It's they're powerful energetically, have an effect on people around them intensely. Yeah, that's wonderful. I have no possibility at the moment to meet anyone in person. I've been removed and placed on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere. So, it's not not easy to get here. It's far away. A little a literal island. Yeah, I live in Maicius now. You know, it's a tiny island, Indian Ocean,

that's neat. Yeah. So, a little bit I miss that conversations, live meetings and stuff. All I have is Zoom now and I utilize it. But yeah, it's true. When you meet in person, it's a different thing. Yeah. Yeah, I guess my point with that is just not that I'm judging anybody, but it's it's just like yes, these descriptions we give of say expansiveness and no self insight and non-dual insight, these are very real. But are they stable in your life in the mundane situations? That's that's really where the rubber meets the road, right? And it can take some time to really integrate that. It takes some years to integrate that especially if there's a lot of trauma and things like that like doesn't awakening does not make your trauma go away. It gives it nowhere to hide. So it will come up to the surface and you will have to deal with it. So and it's so interesting that when seeking it seems like oh it will take the drama away the drama away ugly stuff away and here it is right in the face. Ouch.

Yeah, exactly. And this kind of shows why the seeking itself, that mechanism is dissociative. It's it's trying to seek something outside of this moment, right? Even though it thinks it's a lofty spiritual goal, it itself is actually avoidant. And so, of course, it's going to be disappointed at the end. This the self the separate self Yeah. Yeah. vehicle that feels like the seeker. It's going to be disappointed. And at some point it will be seen through completely and seeking won't be there. Yeah. So you're saying I cannot run away from all my crap, right? Yeah. But it makes it so much more manageable just to be available for it. You know what I mean? Just to be available for whatever comes through. Whether it's, oh man, here's some shame coming up. What's this about? you know, or trauma comes up or you have a reaction you never thought you would have. You suddenly feel jealousy and you've never felt jealousy or don't remember. Like those things happen to people as this realization clarifies like it kind of comes back for everything. All the things you think you have even sometimes grown up out of you maybe didn't you built a scaffolding of identity over it, but you need to go back and feel and you'll feel it like a child feels it at times. You know, you may feel very childlike feeling fear or something. It's not going to be like a year-long experience of terror, but you may have very intense moments of feeling like a childlike fear or an anger that's been repressed for a long time because, you know, whatever your trauma landscape taught you to be a people pleaser, for instance, and you don't set boundaries well and you and anger, you never could afford anger as a child because your parent was the angry one or whatever it is, right? That stuff will come back sometimes and it's okay. But it can be gritty, surprising, can be intense and it's all part of reality, you know? It's just here just like anything is here. Yeah.

And this is actually means that one is awakening to its own stuff. But the mind says no that means I'm not awake. I'm not awake yet. I'm not awake enough. I'm not I'm not I'm going backwards. That's usual usual conversation. I'm going backwards. I seem to arrive at the what was here before. But it's really is just yes going backwards literally going backwards back into zero

like seeing that all these patterns they have been learned taught taken in consciously unconsciously hypnotically whatever it's going back to

not knowing. Mhm.

Yeah. What just came up for me was to just make a point for anyone listening that when inevitably this stuff does come and again it can feel so much more direct than you remembered before any kind of shift. So before awakening you may have felt fear, you may have felt sadness or grief, but you probably felt it through a filter of thought. When all of a sudden you don't have that filter of thought, it's very direct. It's a very direct experience. Many people have said to me like when I feel fear now I am the fear. When I feel sadness it's like everything is sad. It's all sadness for a time. It also tends to move through much quicker and I find the emotions become much more fluid and over time they calm down a lot in general is what I find. Um, but the the point that I wanted to make for anyone listening is that there's actually a remarkable amount of um value in notice, especially if you're not used to what's happening. You starting to feel shame and it's like, oh god, shame. Sometimes you might even be disincined to label it or even recognize what it is. But once you start going, okay, I'm just feeling shame. There's a sense of shame here or let's say call it unworthiness, whatever you want to label it. There's a tremendous amount of value you in doing one very simple thing and that is like literally turning toward it. Just going welcome shame. Welcome. I don't want to feel there's something in me that does not want to feel this. And yet let's just feel it. Like let me just feel this. Let me just go where it takes me. It's okay. Because what we don't, I think, realize at first often when these intense emotions come, is that the problem so to speak, the discomfort of it, the discord feeling, the dysphoria of it is not the emotion itself. It's that we're always trying to pull away from it. We're always trying to mitigate it. We're always trying ultimately trying to control it and try to be someone separate from it. That's what's actually uncomfortable. The emotion isn't intrinsically uncomfortable at all. So just the simple mere acknowledgement and willingness to do the best you can in this moment to just turn toward it and just go okay let me just feel this shame that's actually really powerful. It's it's a simple simple act but if you don't know what else to do and you feel out of sorts and emotionally tumultuous and your mind is confused or whatever just do that. Just acknowledge it. You know just acknowledge what it is. See if you can just feel it a little closer. That will take you a long way if you especially if it's a habit because what you're doing with that is you're just reversing the other habit and the other habit is dissociate dissociate dissociate. Yeah. Thought thought thought distraction distraction distraction you know and this is just turning that around and going I'm giving my consent to feel this and there's there's power in that. Yeah. rather than running away, running towards or or just being here and saying, "Come, come, come, come, be okay. I'm safe." Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. And there's such a maturity in that, like in relationship too, right? If your child feels safe with you all the time because they know you hold a space where it's non-judgmental, nurturing, supportive, and you're letting them be who they are in that moment. That's great parenting, right? That's and and the child will know that you feel safe. You can do that internally as well. If there's a part of you that felt unsafe, parent it. Make sure it feels safe. It it's it's not complicated, actually. Um but it it is reversing habits. That's what this part of things is. Shadow work is kind of reversing tendencies of dissociation pretty much. I think

so. The myth can be that

after I awaken or once awakening happens to me, it will be orderly. It will not be messy. It will be clear all the time.

And that's not how it is.

That's a good one. Yeah, the the the linearity thing. We don't always realize how much of a bias we have or an expectation or actually a identifying with some kind of linearity and expectations being met. That's very heady. It's very mind based without without really thoroughly investigating. You may not realize that until you enter the world of nonlinearity because this is nonlinear. Like there's nothing linear about this. It's it's not random either. It's not I wouldn't call it chaos. It's there's a settleness totally in in this experience. And yet if I try to imputee linearity on this, I'm going to get frustrated, impatient, and disappointed every single time because it's just what it is. It's not following some kind of breadcrumbs or steps or expectations. Yeah, that's a really good point.

It's like can you live the challenge would be can you live without expectations or maybe I would say it like can you live without being attached to expectations like sure I'm not going to say there's no conventional role for for making a plan or something these are conventional things we do right but there's a difference between just making a plan and That's it. And having expectations that we feel identified with and rigidly attached to such that we're either impatient or or frustrated or disillusioned like constantly, right? Like holding holding the view of the one who has to hold that future that has to go a certain way. That's already uncomfortable. And of course, it's never going to happen on your time frame. So that's uncomfortable. And then it's probably not going to happen the way you want it to. So now it's now you're disappointed. So that whole game of expectation, which is kind of tied into linearity, is a game you don't win. So at some point, just stop playing the game. And like I don't have to have expectations about anything because this is more than enough. This um this this not a it's not a it's not a thing. It's not an event, but it's more than enough. It's it's actually so much in a way that it's indescribable. So much clarity, so much depth, so much fluidity.

And what you describe in not a glorious way is, you know, it can just be called seeking. It's really not glorious thing.

Trying to escape this, getting disappointed, trying to control, getting disappointed, it will never end.

And best it's stepping out of that and seeing that this is what's going on. It's not glorious thing. It's nothing to be proud of. It's nothing to put the you know a medal on the shoulder somewhere here because I'm I'm a seeker. I'm a spiritual person. I'm good.

That needs to go. Yeah,

this is probably related to what you just said or related to what we're talking about, but another one came to me that's a myth. This is a myth that I think is kind of subconscious almost. It's like the myth you see only after it's starting to be dispelled. And that is we think insight, awakening, realization, whatever it is you want to call it, we think that's going to fortify us. It's quite the opposite. It's quite the opposite for me. It was it makes it doesn't fortify you against feeling or it doesn't fortify you in some strengthening your your character way. It actually feels viscerally and actually momentto moment living very different than that. It feels porous. It feels wide open, vulnerable. um

totally accepting totally accepting of whatever is this because there's no way not to accept it because it's already the moment it registers it's in a sense it's in the past but it's just here it's here and so it there's not a fortification it's quite the opposite and maybe that's one of the major transitions that happens is that the fortifying sense itself dissolves over time till you realize you don't have to be fortified. You don't need to self-protect in that way. Yeah. It's totally not what mind expects though. Yeah.

All right. So, we were little babies, little kids, and we got hurt. We got protection, more protection, do this, behave this way, pretend to be like this, have this mask, and it's just more and more and more protection. So mind thinks, oh there must be an ultimate protection. It's called awakening. If I get there I'll be I'll be protected from everything. Mhm. Yeah. But it's just saying hold on a second. It's dismantling all that and finding that precious innocence of playfulness or beingness.

like a a raw precious thing that finally can breathe get out of all these prisons of limitations, rules and ideas how it should be and like oh I can I can I can be safe. No.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point as well. All of these myths also come with a surprise when the myth is dispelled. Um, and the myth of this fortification thing is you never really wanted to be fortified.

Um when when the when it's clear in the way you described that in this moment there is no need to be fortified. There is no need to be to build up a barrier or a wall of any kind to brace myself. Like none of that's necessary at all. Then you realize there's actually in the past trying to find the fortification is what made you feel unsafe. Now you feel that paradoxically there's a kind of safety in this in in the in the just total openness and relinquishing of control. It's a felt sense of safety. Doesn't mean that the body's not going to age and die and it's not subject to disease. Like that's all true, but there's a deep a deep for me as I'm reflecting on your just your words, there's a deep sense of safety in in the deep resonance with call it the cosmos or whatever that everything's really okay. Like really really fundamentally okay. That's where that's where the safety is that I think everybody really wants. But but you don't you can't know you want that until you start to actually come into contact with it, so to speak. Yeah. Because we're so used to surrogates, the mind's version of that. Yeah.

Right. So the myth is that everything is not okay. That I am not okay. this experience is not okay. My environment is not my thoughts are not okay. My feelings are not okay. That's the hugest myth I think because eventually it's clear that everything's okay.

Yeah, I think you nailed it. That is definitely the biggest myth.

It even it even gets down to this felt sense that I need to do something at all. It's a felt sense. It's a it's a restlessness like I need to do something because things are not okay. But but even when you see through like and you really do know instinctually everything's okay where things are just fine and you can even see through that self structure there there's still a little residue sometimes that takes a while to just dissolve and the residue is like it's like ah I gota I got to do something I got to react I gotta like even though you know there's nothing that needs to be done and nothing that needs to be fixed and there's no one even to fix it there's still there can be this kind of urge it's almost like the root of selfing is is sort of remaining and that's fine. It will dissolve on its own. It will settle down. But yeah, it's it's that exactly what you said, the sense that something's wrong and and then the felt more dynamic sense that I need to do something. When when you realize you don't have to do a damn thing, when you realize it doesn't matter if I go work out right now or I go take a nap or I go eat something or it just doesn't matter. like there's there's something so freeing in realizing that in the most fundamental way it actually doesn't matter. Um

that combined with this this sort of non- agency, no sense of a separate one trying to control anything, that to me is really the feeling or the signature of freedom. And I will make one caveat to anyone listening who might think I'm suggesting that you have you just suddenly have bad behaviors or something. That's not how it usually turns out. I find I find that it's the opposite. I find that it puts into alignment what really matters to you. It frees up a lot of energy to take care of what you actually want to take care of. It it frees up so much energy for creativity. It frees up so much energy for just natural enjoyment of everything that's already happening. If you want to be a better parent, be completely present. Don't have an agenda. And that's what that's where you find yourself. It's like I don't need to fix anything. I don't need to fix that child or that everything's perfectly okay the way it is and then you can just respond to the environment as it changes and fluctuates as it will. So, so yeah, having truly having no agendas in the way we're talking about to me is freedom and it it's born of really digesting that there is nothing wrong and nothing that needs fixed.

Amen. And I want to bring a word, one word here. Authenticity that what you describe is just being authentic. Being you being yourself in the moment.

You want to go eat, you go eat. You want to go play, you go play. What you want, what's coming through authentically, not what I should or shouldn't.

Mhm. So when if I feel safe, I can be myself and I don't even need to think if I'm worthy or not worthy or what's going on or who has what or who has said what. I'm just here. Nothing's missing. Mhm. And even words like authenticity or alignment or enlightenment are not needed. They're needed when we talk to somebody about it, sharing ideas. But in the moment, just, you know, playing with cats or doing your dishes, going for a walk or you know, working.

Is it comfortable or not? Are you trying? Are you putting a mask on? Are you hurting and pretending that you're not? Ah, these are things to look at. But underneath it all, there is just being you. Being comfortable being you, knowing that it's all okay, you're okay. And I think this is what people want to hear. That's why they're watching these videos. They just want to know that they want somebody to tell them that you're okay. There's nothing wrong.

Yeah.

I thought of a myth as you were speaking. Cool. Or a way to structure a statement about it.

I might have forgot it though, which is okay. It'll come if it wants to.

Yeah, here here's what it was. It's there's a there's a sort of myth I think when you look at say somebody like me who speaks online about this or you or anyone else or or just even not looking at a specific person but just a kind of general idea you might have that you come to a place where it's like the like the ultimate spiritual existence maybe something like that right the the reason that's a myth and I just want to point this out is It is an exact relation to what you just said. It's that at some point and it can happen abruptly. I've seen it happen abruptly and I've seen it be dis like disturbing to people for a while in deep realization is when the whole spiritual specialness just drops away and it can happen like suddenly like the whole what you thought spirituality even was literally just goes up in flames and what's left is a total naturalness and and that total naturalness is what this whole thing has been about the pathless path and the gateless gate all of that it's all part of the deal It can be surprising how much goes away when your whole spiritual endeavor goes away too. But I wouldn't Yeah, it I I don't even know what I don't even know what it means. Like when I talk about spirituality or people talk about spirituality as like a like a thing, it's like I don't even really know what that is. It's just a collection of thoughts like anything else. But what's ultimately revealed is really a kind of total naturalness and it's not spiritual per se. It's not it's you can't I can't categorize it. It's it's unatategorizable. So that that's a that's a bit of a myth too that there that the spiritual journey kind of like comes to a crescendo where it's this ultimate spiritual whatever whatever you think that is it actually comes to an end at some point. It for me it did and for many people it does. So yeah, I agree. That word spiritual, it has no real meaning. I was always confused when people say you are spiritual. Like what does that mean? And I would look in inside and think what are they talking about? What is this being spiritual? To this day, I don't know what that means.

Yeah. The best I can come up with is it's it's kind of a way of dressing and a way of speaking sometimes and maybe something about where you go and the people you're around. But it's it's a very like it's almost like a style more than I I really don't know honestly. Yeah. I don't think I personally had a strong spiritual sense. somebody does by the way and they're on the path and it feels like all there's nothing wrong with that but but I'm just pointing out from my own experience I don't really ever feel like I had some strong identity about spirituality or being spiritual I just didn't want to suffer anymore that was how it was was for me I was I was interested in what we're talking about only to end my own suffering initially that that that's what it was about I just felt something felt off something felt really off in the way I was experiencing the world and myself and life and so forth. Very very very uncomfortable. And then with the shift I saw clearly what it was and then the discomfort that was the beginning of the end of the discomfort. It took a while. The discomfort didn't go away overnight. But but it changed tremendously instantaneously with that shift. But yeah, for me it was all about that. It was simply about something feels wrong, something feels off about the way I'm experiencing everything and it's really miserable and no one talks about it. And then as soon as I found someone who not only talked about it, they they had a way of addressing it directly, I was all in. That's how it was for me. So I didn't really have a sense of what spirituality means. And yeah, I don't really know. Well, I read Jed McKenna's books. The first one was spiritual enlightenment. That's the only kind of um meeting that word spiritual because it's said on the cover of the book spiritual enlightenment.

But I could never connect to that word.

I just thought of another myth because of the age of AI and stuff. you know, you can go and charge GPT and it's going to help you awaken and it's going to tell you everything and it will give you all the texts and everything you need to know.

And I think that's a myth. I don't know. I never met anyone who who came to me or at least I never heard of it that somebody would wake up by having a chat with Chad GPT yet. I don't know maybe it is maybe somebody can write a comment and say yes that's me but the way I see it is just mirrors the mind mirrors mirrors whatever is coming through here. So if you have a blind spot that blind spot is going to be there that now people use that charg to to work with their shadows or work with their I don't know patterns and conditioning but it's not alive it's not it hasn't got that awareness it hasn't it doesn't see you and you cannot see you

so I think that's another myth yeah I tend to agree there's there's a role for the active alive in the- moment reflection that's going on and it's not just through words either. I mean these are large language models and anyone using them for anything important should know what they do right especially if you're using them for psychology uh like or as a therapist or awakening you have to understand like all it's all it's actually written to do is to predict what word you want to hear and then the next word that you want to hear and the next word you want to hear. They're good at synthesizing data and information. they they have value, but you really should understand that's what's happening. Something is just telling you what you want to hear because that's what large language models do. But importantly, es I think especially with like subtler things and insights and fixation stuff and I I think they're going to have a lot of trouble um tracking what's going on with people because I mean when I'm working with somebody I see the way they look, their eyes move, the way their body's moving. I can see the moment they relax. like there I pick up so much that's not has nothing to do with language at all. Not not verbal language. Um but also there's this this place of total freedom where there's no referencing the past. There's no referencing what what is known or knowledge or language as the transmission itself. And of course AI can't do that. I know it can't. I' that's I've worked with AI in a lot of ways and it just can't do that. So, um, so yeah, I I can't say there's no value in it for people. That's up to them to decide. But, um, yeah, when we talk about the real nuances of fixation and so forth that are going on in a human, those are dynamic and they're happening right now and and they're shifting right now. Like, I can feel it's like a dance I'm with in somebody, I don't think a large language model is going to be able to do that, but who knows? Yeah, I'm I'm curious. Maybe somebody woke up just by using Chad GPT. I'd like to know. Mhm. It's interesting. Yeah.

The other one that I sometimes am curious about is psychedelics. Like I've had I think there's a role for them for many people. Certainly not everybody. You don't need psychedelics to wake up and you don't need psychedelics to move through all the stages of insight and dropping away of perceptual filters and fedters. Like you just don't because many people I know didn't use them. Um, but I've heard of one or two people that gave me a convincing, reasonably convincing story that they did have an awake, at least an initial awakening on psychedelics or shortly after or something. Um, so again, there are tools out there, AI, psychedelics. Um, you know, there are tools that are more what we call traditional spiritual tools like meditation, mindfulness, inquiry. There are all these things that you can use. But again, there's something so direct and personal about realizing the nature of mind with a capital M. Realizing the nature of being. It's a very very very direct simple right now recognition that doesn't require a tool. That's the beauty of it. It doesn't even require the tool of your own mind. It's it's that clear. So, um, so I guess what I want to say that the myth I would add to what you just said or reframe slightly or something is that tools in and of themselves can be helpful, but they can be a hindrance if you give them too much.

If if you use them to not look in the one place you need to look and that's not into your chatpt prompt and it's not it's not with a mind-blowing psychedelic experience. It's right here right now. It's it's it's like one clear look is all it really takes. Um with a total willingness with a total willingness. Um so yeah, that's the thing. Tools can be helpful, sure, but don't overemphasize them. Yeah. Yeah. There are so many tools and I I see them as um you know crouches. If you if you break a leg, you need you need support and you have crutches, right? And you walk and walk and walk and walk, but then at some point your leg is okay and then you can walk without them. But you know, keep carrying them. Why? You don't need it. Oh, look. I have these cool tools. go to every psychedelic experience. Put them aside. What's here? Yeah. Y we don't need to carry every tool. That's a technology.

We're not broken. But it can be helpful to come to that safety.

Safety.

It's a fundamental thing.

Oh, it's such a trip. All this all this awakening thing.

It is.

Trying to think of any other prominent myths that are sticking out to me.

How about special powers? Do you get any special powers with awakening? So, that's an interesting one. I I think I think a lot of the traditions that talked about Siddhi's special powers and so forth, I think they were overblown. Some of them I've even seen videos of like spiritual teachers doing things that they're actually fake like and you can see light of hand making things manifest and like it's very clear that it's not real what they're doing that they're putting on a show. Um, so I think some of that has probably h a lot of that probably happened throughout the throughout history because it's just a way to get people's attention. It's a way to impress people. You know, tribal cultures and stuff are fascinated with shamanism and magic. So, I think some of it was just made up probably. Um, but I I won't say that nothing extraordinary like that happens because it does. But in my experience, it's not something like you you have like a tool or you can control it like I can just read someone's mind or I can I can predict the future on on command like that that that's not how I experience it at all. However, some things have happened that are so obviously remarkably impossible in the normal way we think about things that I can't deny it. But it's for me it's random. It'll just randomly happen. And I also try not to overemphasize it or waste energy. I don't have to now. I don't care. I don't it doesn't it doesn't stick out that much to me anymore because it happens. It's happened a lot. But things like synchronicities that are really really strange happening. Meeting people a certain way and then the way they describe the reason they found me is like really really remarkable. It's not just because YouTube served an algorithm, right? Um, I've had a good number of moments where randomly sometimes in deep meditation I'll have this like it's just like a visual snapshot. It's not a it doesn't feel like a memory so much, but that's the closest thing I could say is a memory that never happened. And I but but it's it's not like that. It's a felt sense. There's a there's an energetic felt sense that's almost like the karmic chain is so clear that I I know something's going to happen, a certain thing, but it's not even related to me necessarily. and it'll be like a snapshot, like a few seconds. I just see it's almost like a lens opening to a moment and then it's gone and I don't think about it after that. I usually don't attach to it at all. I don't even whatever. It is what it is. And then it'll happen like it'll happen three days later or it'll happen two months later. I've had that happen many times. And it's not it's not just like, oh, I'm gonna meet a new person. It's something very vague. It's like very specific. Like a certain person I know, a certain interaction, a certain thing happens like something that is not explainable through coincidence. So I've had that happen a good number of times. Um, so yeah, I think these these kinds of powers that we would consider extra human or ESP type things, maybe even like some kind of future prediction type of stuff, they're definitely possible. Um, they're also something I don't talk about a lot because it really, some people really get fixated on this. Like they want those special powers and they're trying to wake up so they can get special powers. If you're trying to wake up to get special powers, go try to make some money or something. Try find another way to make yourself happy because you're going to be very disappointed. Um, it's not going to go like you think. But uh, but I can't say that they never happen in good conscience. Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's more like subtle things open, not something you can show. But inner inner powers open. That's interesting. Yeah. So outside you look the same. What's inside? Nobody knows.

Like even even this, you know, when I sit with people and they come on come on on video and they start crying. I don't do anything. There's something there happening. Is that a special power to make people cry? I don't think so. But there's something starts happening

or start laughing. No, just seeing something and start laughing and controlling it.

That's pretty special.

Yeah.

Yeah. Transmission is definitely a thing. I mean, it it happens for sure. There's some something about it. To me, it feels more It doesn't feel like I'm transmitting to somebody. It feels like a local effect in the energy field, and it's just a combination of me and them or whatever. Um I should also say yeah there as you were speaking I thought of another it's not a special power it's not a special power that you would say an individual has but it's it's this fascinating serendipity of if you kind of look at what if I look at what happened to lead me to the shift of awakening like the the breadcrumbs in my life they were pretty extraordinary meeting the right person at the right time to say exactly the right thing that really opened up something for me. It It just seems so not random. Like there's almost this choreographed nature to realization. I find there it's like kind of like a clockwork actually. And the now now in as things are very clear now and there's not thought like obstructing and in the way. I can see deeply into the karmic chains. Like it's it's not something I can explain, but it's I can see it including previous incarnations and so forth. But again, I really don't like to talk about this stuff because I don't want to give people the idea that if you wake if you wake up, you're going to have past life experiences or something. You might, but it's also hard to explain how that is experienced. It's not word. There's not there's not language that talks about that. We haven't invented it. I don't know if we could.

I can't wait for teleportation though. I'd like that. That'd be great. When I was little kid, I was I was um playing like kids do. I found some corner behind the school and it had like squares, yellow squares drawn on some payments, you know, and I and I was playing teleportation. I would just stand up and then go.

I love it.

Still waiting for that would be a good one. If you figure it out, let me know. I would like to know the recipe.

I think we covered pretty much

so so much. I think we did. It was a pleasure. Oh, pleasure is all mine. And you know how this happened? Because of all these eyebrows in my dream. How weird is that? There you go.

I'm glad you reached out. Yeah, it's been a while. I don't remember how long ago we had our first conversation, but it's been a couple years, right? I checked today. It was August. Not last year. Year before. Year and a half. Oh, year and a half. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Cool. Yeah, we can do it again sometime. Yeah, why not? It's fun. Freshly from the field. I should put you on my channel. I'll I'll I'll interview on you on my channel. That would be lovely. Yeah, that'd be cool. Okay. Okay, Angel, thank you so much. And everyone who watched and listened. Yeah, drop a comment. Share about your myths and your experiences with breaking them. It's always cool to know. Okay. Yeah, that would be cool. I'll check out the comments. Take care. Thank you. Bye for now.