Being Self-Defined

Who defines who you are?

In a world driven by comparison, constant opinions, and endless pressure to keep up, it can be easy to lose sight of who God created us to be.

This episode on Speaking of Faith, Bishop DeDe and Adam explore what it really means to be self-defined—not in a self-centered way, but by living with intentionality, agency, and an identity rooted in God rather than the expectations of others.

Together they discuss:

• What it means to be self-defined in a healthy, Christian way
• Why comparison steals our peace and our identity
• How faith helps us reconnect with our deepest selves
• The difference between living intentionally and simply reacting to the world around us
• Why saying "I don't know" can be an act of wisdom
• The relationship between personal agency and Christian community
• How people-pleasing, guilt, and "shoulds" can keep us from living authentically
• Why loving your neighbor also requires learning to love yourself
• Practical ways to slow down, reconnect with God, and discover what truly matters

Rather than offering easy answers, this episode invites you into an honest conversation about identity, purpose, and living faithfully in an increasingly noisy world.

What helps you stay grounded in who God created you to be? We'd love to hear your thoughts. Share your reflections in the comments or send us your questions for a future episode.

Send us your questions and join the conversation as we continue learning how to speak of faith together.

AI Disclosure: To support our staff in their limited time, some of our episode summaries are first generated by AI and then edited by the Communications Director to accurately reflect and preview our podcast episodes.

Transcript

DeDe Duncan-Probe (00:04.386)
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast, speaking of faith. Wow, something either we do too much of, not enough of, or wish we could do better. I don't know. Welcome to this podcast wherever you may be on that journey. My name is DeDe Duncan-Probe. I am the Episcopal Bishop of Central New York. I'm joined by Adam Eichelberger, who is our director of communications. And we're going to talk about something today. How do we speak?

with and be self-defined. How do we find our place in this world? This world that is changing so fast. This works world that is so divided, you feel like you can't say anything without offending everyone. This world where everyone is kind of on a hyperdrive when it comes to the least little things someone says, they're quick to take offense, quick to be upset, quick to can't you know cancel culture being whatever it is. this sense of

panic in some ways that exists in the world where it's like faster, faster, faster, and we can get really caught up in it and feel like we're losing our way, or feel like we're just opting out altogether or or feel completely kind of overwhelmed. So again, wherever you are on that journey, welcome to this space of being curious and wondering and learning together. this is a podcast about learning. It is about wondering

where we have conversations. I really believe that conversations are how we articulate our faith or where we kind of engage with it and chew on it and and are transformed by these ways in which we speak our faith. So let's get into it. What do I mean when I talk about self-defined? I think first of foremost, a lot of people use this term and it could either mean kind of a selfishness or self-centeredness or

I'm going to base this on me and I'm not going to listen to the experts, or I'm the, you know, I'm the master of my universe. And so self-defined means whatever I say goes. I mean, there's a lot of ways people use and misuse that terminology. What I mean when I talk about being self-defined is to be clear and intentional about how we define ourselves, to not utilize someone else's measure.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (02:28.268)
This world that is running so quickly and with technology technological advances, with all of the things that are happening, there can be a feeling in this life of a sense of pace where it just feels like everything is kind of rocketing out of control and going too fast. And I want to say it probably feels that way because in many ways it really is that way. we are moving so quickly through changes that we can't even keep up with them.

And so we have a lot of choices. We can hurry up, try to catch the the rabbit, as it were, or we can opt out and just completely, you know, leave it behind. Or in the midst of it, we can say, you know what? I'm going to remind myself to pace myself based on what I believe to be true, based on the things that I value most. I'm going to self-define against either.

joining in, opting out, or doing something that's on the the edges of the decision, but rather to integrate into ourselves what it is we want to be about. So when I'm talking about self-defined in this, I just want to be clear about it, that I'm not talking about, well, you know, the the teaching for a long time was you're supposed to be in the world, but not of it, that we are separate from the world. And I understand that thinking and in some ways we do need to do some of that work.

But it also is insufficient because we actually are in this world and have to function in this society. And so how will we do that honoring our best self? And I think the first and foremost with that, this is my opinion in this, I think we have to start by knowing ourselves, by having some connection with our deepest soul. How much of the time, for you, listener, do you get to the end of the day and someone says, Well, what did you do today? And you just think,

I can't even remember. I was push, push, push from dawn to dusk, and it's just a blur. I don't know that I was ever conscious or present to anything I was doing because I was either going so fast or feeling too much or overwhelmed or just shut down. And so welcome to a space where we're gonna talk about opening back up, where we're gonna talk about not shutting down, but rather engaging.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (04:53.272)
But engaging in a way where it's healthy and whole and good for us. Because while all this is happening, while there's all the partisan division, while this weekend we're going to be and I'm I'm dating this podcast, this is the week before July 4th. So there's been a lot, a lot, a lot of discussion. Yes, I thought about talking about patriotism and Christian nationalism and all the things, but I'm not sure the thing we may need to talk about most.

is recentering our lives and to be self-defined about what do we believe. How does our belief translate into knowing who we are? Our identity in God, our identity as people of God, and how are we going to navigate a time when everyone is rushing to the to e the either or's rather than the both and we are part of here in the United States,

part of the United States. This is the 250th anniversary. And so however we may be feeling about that, we are part of that conversation. And that's not the only thing we're part of. And especially if we've done work around Christian nationalism, we know that we are first and foremost people of God, that our first and f and and primary allegiance is to Jesus Christ and to what it is we believe to be true.

And in that context, then how are we going to live as citizens of this place? So when I'm talking about self-defined, being clear about things, it's doing some work with that, sitting with it, being uncomfortable with it, wrestling with it, and thinking about, yes, we can take a side in every battle, and yes, we can fight, fight, fight. But in the midst of all of this, we're called to live our lives.

And if we start seeing this present moment as completely unique, I think we lose the ability to understand that for Jesus and for the apostles and the disciples and all the people down through the ages, these moments of of of social discord, these moments of of really heightened awareness of things going too fast to keep up, this is not the first time that it's happened. This is our turn.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (07:18.058)
And always the same things are where the answer lies prayer, meditation, connecting with our deepest self, stopping in the midst of a day, breathing, and thinking, okay, am I letting outside forces dictate how I feel inside? Because a big part of self defined is deciding what we f what we feel inside ourselves based on what we know to be true. Our willingness to recognize our failings.

Our willingness to recognize that someone outside of us may be pushing us that they're emergency, they want to be our crisis. And maybe we need to say, you know, I understand that for you this is really important. For me at this moment in life, I need to stop. I need to reconnect with nature. I need to value my family and those I love. I need to stop being busy and start being intentional.

I need to start being carried away by all the change and the may you. and one place, and I'll kind of close with this and then welcome Adam to the conversation, is how often are we feeling the pressure to be an authority on something that we don't really know enough about? I find it refreshing to be around someone who says things like, I don't know. I don't really understand that yet. I'd like to learn more about that.

I'm curious to know more. Well, I think this, but you know, I just because I think it doesn't mean it so. one of the things that happens when life is so busy and so full and so overwhelming is we can feel a pressure to to know and not to be curious. So when you think of like curiosity, generosity, kindness, compassion, they feel really.

Outside of what this world is about because they are. So being self-defined is to value those things we value most and reconnect ourselves with what really matters in our life. So Adam, this is a kind of nebulous conversation we're gonna have today. We're inviting you into it. But when you think about, you know, def self-defining and the the just melee that is the world right now with all of the people you everybody's taken aside on some issue.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (09:41.582)
How do you find a hope in reconnecting with what matters most to you?

Adam Eichelberger (09:49.56)
Think that one of the things that I have struggled with mightily when we talk about this idea of being self-defined is where does the definition come from? I think that sometimes I am like as a person of faith, I'm willing to lean into my relationship with God and let God be the author of who I am and find my definition, find my identity. Not to be like glib about it, but to find my identity in Christ. But I also

DeDe Duncan-Probe (09:59.919)
Mm-hmm.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (10:10.158)
Mm-hmm.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (10:17.432)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (10:19.677)
Am a person and I'm susceptible to the same things that everybody else is, and I sign I I I give into like a spirit of comparison a lot, and I tend to lean into what do I think others are thinking of me, and is that guiding my actions or my thoughts? I I have a lot of work to do on this, and listener, I don't know if you're anything like me, but maybe you do too, and that's okay.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (10:29.026)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (10:44.942)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (10:49.497)
the goal is progress, not perfection sometimes. my my question I have for you, Bishop, as as we're talking about what it means to be self-defined, like what what are some of the changes that we see in ourselves? And maybe even changes that we could see around us if we let God help us or God define us rather than the world.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (11:16.748)
Wow, it's such a good question. And it does I appreciate also the reminder of where you know this definition coming from. Spoiler spoiler alert, I started out doing my I thought I was going to be a therapist. And so I did a I have a a master's in clinical psychology because I thought that's the direction my life would go because I was in a place where women couldn't be priests. So, you know, I went that way. so self-defined as a psychological term in therapy is where I'm coming from.

People again, people have all kinds of different sort of layers they put onto those words. For me, it is that to have agency. and a lot of times the shulda, coulda, woulda's take away our agency. Well, I should do this. And an illustration, a little sidebar to help clarify what I'm talking about. there is the story with stuff about the the grandmother.

writes out the recipe and in the recipe she says, you know, one cup of one blue cup of sugar. And it's in the recipe. And and the mother, you know, passes the recipe down to the granddaughter. And the grand granddaughter says, What is a blue cup of sugar? And the mother says, Well, grandma had this blue cup and she used that to measure the sugar. And so it was that cup of sugar. And

So self-defined is asking the questions and being aware of the assumptions we're making about ourselves, the people pleasing that happens, the I should do this, I ought to do that. Self-defined means stopping in the midst of it and saying, What do I believe is the right thing for me to do here? And in what way am I enabling someone to take advantage or self-harm or other things?

And in what way am I trying to rescue people? And in what way am I acting with agency where I have clear headed, where I have clear thinking? And so you could supplant and what I'm saying is self-defined. You could instead say something like clear headedness. because when we're not self-defined, we're doing it because we're worried about what that person will say about us. We're worried about what we're supposed to do. We're trying to fulfill someone's expectations for us.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (13:40.227)
We're trying to be beholden to someone else's opinion instead of first doing the work of forming our own. And so I would say agency is probably the better word that I should use. and I put should in there intentionally. a psychological phrase that Adam has heard me say before is you shouldn't should on yourself. And that shoulding is a guilt-laden, performative.

pushing down kind of a word. what do we get to do? What do we feel called to do? What would be an enlivening for ourselves or others to do, to step out of that place where we're always doing things because of someone else's sense of what they think we should be doing or they think is right. And instead having our own agency and doing what we believe God is calling us to do.

And what you said just a minute ago, Adam, really is worth highlighting that that we are aligned and our identity comes from our relationship with God and that, you know, it's about God in us is so important. And in that recognizing God has created us with joy, blessed us with the ability to reason and to be in relationships. And what God, what fulfills God's kingdom is us being authentically who we are for the kingdom.

not always trying to press ourselves into the shape of someone else's sense of right or wrong, but instead to be wholly who we are in God and to be that shape, whatever it may be, and to have a sense of agency about it. And so I don't know if that clarifies where I'm at least coming from. And listener, this is where you may have a completely different idea about it that we should, should.

might be some, you know, some people think that should is a good word because it points to what we ought to be doing because we're often wrong. but I haven't found in my life that people really find health and healing when it's all about guilt and shame rather than empowerment and agency. And so in this time to be self-defined, to have our agency and to say, you know what?

DeDe Duncan-Probe (16:02.828)
I'm gonna get on the elevator and face the wrong direction because this is a glass elevator and I'm gonna miss the view if I'm always facing the door. I mean, it's kind of cha making those shifts that are based on what you believe to be true.

Adam Eichelberger (16:16.888)
No, that makes a lot that makes a lot of sense. And l I wanna talk a little bit about that word agency that you used. because I feel like oftentimes that word kind of gets conflated with like I I don't need anybody else. I don't need to be in a community, I can't rely on anyone else. I kinda have to do it all myself. this kind of like a

DeDe Duncan-Probe (16:23.075)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Eichelberger (16:44.292)
Pick yourself up by your bootstraps kind of mentality. And so when we when we think about agency and being self-defined through the lens of people who are Christians, who live in community, who serve in community, how how how how do we navigate that? Because some t I feel like those two things don't have to be as diametrically opposed as maybe society or even some parts of the church.

feel like they are, they're it I think they're actually really connected and maybe even a little interdependent, those two things of agency and community, that they're not as separate as we think they are. So can we talk about that just a little bit? Like how those things really affect us and and maybe how do we start to define if for some of us who maybe have never really considered like agency, who am I really? Like, how do we start to kind of define that stuff?

DeDe Duncan-Probe (17:44.463)
my goodness, such a this this is a life work. And so listener, if you're like, okay, I'm gonna go listen to something else because this is like a lot of work, it is a lot of work. It is, and it's good work because the more that we engage in healthy living and in healing, the more that we're going to experience healing, the more we're gonna experience these things. But how we begin, you know, first and foremost is is recognizing if this is a foreign

concept or conversation to ourselves. If we have never in our lives been thought about intentionality or who we are apart from all of the things that are p foisted on us, then there may be a lot of unpacking that we have to do to get to the the core of it. This is something that I would highly recommend with a therapist, with someone who's a trusted person who can be

helpful on the journey to recognize this, you know, for whether for Al-Anon or Alcoholics Anonymous or other help groups, this language that I'm using, if you're in those groups, you'll recognize. You'll be like, yep, rescuing, mm-hmm, got it. Enabling, mm-hmm. clearing our way of thinking, so that we are making decisions with agency that have meaning.

So one way we start this work is by doing it in community. You talked about agency and community. Umbuntu, which has been talked about in some circles a lot, I am because you are. It is from the African continent and from other cultures. But for us, in this culture of this United States of America, to reconnect with this understanding that we are.

connected with all other beings, whether you're talking plants and animals even or humans, that when you know the butterfly effect with the chaos theory is one of my favorites. But if you if someone's doing something in one part, it's going to naturally impact all of us. And so we are interconnected and we have an interdependence. But when we lose our identity in the identity of another

DeDe Duncan-Probe (20:09.876)
in a relationship, in in a ideal that we've hold held dear, when we can no longer see who God has created us to be, then that becomes a sin. Not because it's a bet, but it's because we're not honoring God's creation in us. We're not recognizing God has created us to be who we are. And where we may think we're not, you know, tall enough

Smart enough, strong enough, fast enough, God delights at us and says, You are exactly who I've wanted you to be. And as you honor your inner knowledge, your inner knowing, the more that you are true to that inner light in you, the more you're shining the light of God. Because we're created in God's image. And part of this work is reconnecting with that image.

That's in us, maybe buried under all the shoulds, buried under all of the inattentive. And it does take work. It is not done in a day. You can't think yourself right. You can't think yourself healed. But when I look at the gospel of Jesus Christ and when I read the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus talking about love your neighbor as yourself, not love your neighbor better than yourself or instead of yourself or

more than you care about. Not this what we've often done with that is turned it into a really trite, performative, tokenistic, unhealthy, sinful thing, which is I'm just going to be nice to people. We're supposed to love others with an intentionality that we care about ourselves so that we're all interconnected with the divine image of God that's in us. And so let me repeat that when we say we're created in the image of God,

reconnecting with that image in us, each of us being the part of the kingdom of God we're call called to be, and then to offer that in communion with others, that really we can't be the community of God until we do this work. Because otherwise it's just sort of some false narrative. It's like if I pretend to like you and I just go through years and years if I just pretend to like you and I never think about it and I just do things to say I like you.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (22:37.23)
But then you say, well, who am I really? And I say, well, I don't know. I'm just doing all this. Well, then it's not really rooted in any kind of real relationship or reality. It isn't, it's just performance art. It's not relationship. And so love your neighbor as yourself is calling us to deep, profound relationship that will change us and change other people. And it is very hard to do. Takes a whole lifetime.

I had one woman say to me one time, because I said, you know, love your neighbor, love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. I said, That that is the work of my life, is that and these two commandments saying all the law of the prophets. And she said, just you'll get there. Just work on it. Like it's accomplishable. Like it's like you can actually do it. I think we can get closer to doing it. I think we can become more.

astute at it. But I think always we're going to be wrestling with who am I really? Am I honoring who God has created me to be? Or am I so busy giving away that I've forgotten that when I am not whole, I'm really not part of what God's calling me to be. And so that what you said earlier about we find our identity in God, first and foremost it starts with honoring our

Agency and who we're who we are. Because then when we start to do that, what we're going to run into, like the prophets, is how broken we are. And we're going be like, you know, I never realized how selfish I am. I'm so busy doing all this stuff for other people. I didn't realize that actually I'm infantilizing them and treating myself as if I'm the great power of the universe. Because as we start to peel back those layers and start start dealing with the reality.

We'll learn where God really is trying to heal and redeem us.

Adam Eichelberger (24:38.402)
I really like that last thing that you just said. I actually not to dive too much into my own journey in therapy, but I had a I was talking to my therapist and I said something to the effect of like I have a really hard time holding space for the things that I need or asking for permission and or not I not asking for permission, but like saying like I need to do this thing and assuming that when I ask anybody, my my spouse, my kids, my family, whoever, that I need this time or this space, that it's an imposition.

And I'm I'm being selfish when I do that. not only did my therapist say, like, well, I feel like you're not giving your your spouse, your wife due credit, like I feel like that's not very fair. And then when I talked to her about it, she said, I feel like that's really mean that you're not giving me the ability to to do that. And I was like, like that that was and that hurt. the the kind of this kind of goes along with

DeDe Duncan-Probe (25:27.126)
Yeah.

Adam Eichelberger (25:36.272)
What I think is my final question when we're talking about this is it's really important, like you've highlighted, like to to know who we are, to be self-defined, to to exercise and find that agency. One of the things that I feel like, especially within the church, is how we impose that we have a tendency to impose that on other people.

We have a tendency, specifically with Christianity, in saying if you're not fitting in the box, you're you're not doing you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing, you're sinning, you're missing the mark, all that stuff. I guess my last question for you, Bishop, in this conversation is how do we, especially in the church? I mean, it's important for all of us, but especially in the church, how do we avoid doing that defining of others and essentially

I I feel like maybe taking away other people's agency.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (26:34.534)
okay. So next week that's the podcast. So write that down, Adam, first of all, because that is the podcast. it, you know, this is, you know, Saint Paul, let me say it this. Saint Paul tells us to work out our faith, you know, to to be working out our faith. And it sounds like what Saint Paul is saying is to learn it, believe it, and be it, like like a coercive kind of shape.

Adam Eichelberger (26:38.655)
Ha ha ha ha.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (27:04.384)
yourself into this box, you know, fit in the square peg fitting in the round hole. but I think what really working out our faith means is kind of what you were talking about with that. That's a beautiful example. And really thank you for the vulner the vulnerability and the empowerment of that to share about that when we're not taking up the space we occupy, but pretending that we aren't a person.

We're abusing other people. And I'm not leaning into what we're like with you. I think I think for you, we're trying to you're trying to be kind. You're trying to be generous. You're trying to say, okay, my life is going to be about I'm loving my neighbor. My life is about my neighbor. I'm going to pretend that I'm not really a person. Well, one, we've dishonored that we are a person and that got created us a certain way. And two, we're starting to treat everybody else as if they're needy. And because we're uncomfortable asking for a need.

And saying when we have a need, we're somehow not. And it does become all of those things. And when I was I I will share that I had my knees replaced at the same time, same surgery. this is back when they would do that. I don't think they do that anymore. But anyway, it worked for me, listeners, just so know. because I had young children at the time and it was trying to, you know, go as quickly as we could. So

Anyway, I had been a priest for a number of years at that point, I think 15 or so, and I had spent my ministry going to the hospital and take, you know, attending to people and praying with people who were hurting and helping people who are hurting. And until that surgery, I hadn't realized how wrong my ministry had been. Because I was going to help people.

And then when I had that surgery, I didn't want to ask for help from people, which is a is not a relationship. It's a toxic deployment system or something. And so learning how to say, I need help, I can't do that. I mean, the four sentences of wisdom, I said them last week, that when we are honest about that, and when I would ask for help with someone.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (29:27.668)
I give them the opportunity to love me. I give them the opportunity to exercise their God-given right to be an agent of mercy. I allow them to see my vulnerability, and then we are relating on an equal playing field. I'm no longer trying to hypocritically put myself, elevate myself. Not that anybody intends to do that necessarily, but when we can say, I need help.

Then we're in real relationship with one another because we do need each other. And for me, it was a great learning in that recovery time from that surgery of learning how to meet people with more honesty. It's dishonest to try to be this tabula rasa mirror looking at somebody. And not that I overshare, not that I'm, you know, bringing on my whatever, but when I'm relating to someone now to have compassion.

Because I know what it feels like to receive compassion. And so in the church, I think the way we start to undo centuries of really harm is one step at a time and is looking at it and saying, you know what? When I'm offering to help someone, is what I'm doing actual help? Have I asked them if they want help? Have I have I encouraged their agency? Or is this kind of a toxic charity moment?

Where I'm gonna help them because I'm helping them because they should receive my help because then I'll feel good about myself. So I think that's a very important conversation. And it's not a place of right or wrong. It's a place of working it out. We need to be appreciative of St. Paul telling us these are complex things. We're not the savior of the world. Jesus is. We're not the re you're we're not the creator of the world. God is.

We are God's people and we are most effective when we remember to be God's people with humility, curiosity, wonder, and self-defined agency where we are clear on that. So yep. Well, listener, I don't know if I haven't been controversial enough, but y'all are not writing in questions. We need your questions and your comments and your ideas for a podcast because, you know, this is supposed to be a conversation between us.

DeDe Duncan-Probe (31:50.956)
I'm passing the baton to you and I want to put a little caution on this one. When you go to talk to someone about this, really pick someone who can meet you in the conversation and be gentle with yourself. It is uncommon in this world to meet people who really take responsibility for their own actions and needs and who are have done this work of emotional mental health and healing.

And so I encourage you to have conversations about this, to maybe ask questions with others and have dialogue. We talk about what does it mean to be a whole and healthy person as a believer in Jesus? And how will our agency, how are we be self-defined, defined by the things we know to be true in God in a world that is so busy and so chaotic, and to find that peace in the midst of living it.

So be well and blessings upon blessings. May you be a blessing. And let's keep talking. Let's keep conversing. And I look forward to speaking with you soon. Take good care.