We can circle back to it .
Speaker 3That's a great way to start the show .
Speaker 2Okay , so we can start with a cheers Welcome to the show . You can introduce yourself on this show , okay , so cheers Hi my name's Murphy like the beer . Steve , steve , nice to meet you .
Speaker 3Nice to meet you as well , you're Mr Guinness , I'm Mr Murphy over here , there we go .
Speaker 1I'm Mr Murphy today too .
Speaker 2Yes , we're here with Steve Murphy .
Speaker 3Can't have too many Murphys .
Speaker 2No .
Speaker 3Well , you can't have too many Murphys . Actually , there you go . I mean , sure , I mean pints of Murphys .
Speaker 1Well , that depends . We can test the limits .
Speaker 2Now , murphys used to be a super popular stout and that's kind of . Well , it used to be . It's not like the top anymore . No , it isn't , but in .
Speaker 3Ireland . You know , in the west and the southwest of Ireland Murphy's is the most popular stout .
Speaker 2Still is ?
Speaker 3yeah , it is the number two stout in Ireland . In this glass it's worn off the back , but it has a big two on it . It says we're number two but we're not bitter . Oh .
Speaker 1Because Murphy's is a little rougher . It is .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's true .
Speaker 1Here . That's awesome . We were told this is your favorite pint .
Speaker 3Yeah Well .
Speaker 1Murphy's is my favorite pint I like the other stuff too . You have the Guinness , so it's pretty good .
Speaker 2So I actually have a non-alcohol Guinness and an alcohol Guinness here that I'm balancing .
Speaker 3I'm trying to figure out the point of non-alcohol Guinness , which is pretty good by the way it tastes fantastic .
Speaker 2And if you're driving , if you want to be safe , then have one beer and then you can have a non-fun beer . Put cheers to that . Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 1It is . Yeah , you know you've got to be responsible , although I don't think it's doing what you think it's doing there , Mike , and that's counteracting . I don't think it does that .
Speaker 2I have to drink three of those , the non-unfalls to one alcohol for them to counteract chemically .
Speaker 1It's not an antidote . Where's your question ?
Speaker 2board there . Question board . Oh , we have a question board here for you . It's on the phone . Yeah , we're going to go through a bunch of things here .
Speaker 1But we do one thing that we have a running theme is at the end we actually do kind of like 10 rapid fire questions . So we'll get to that eventually , but until that time , we're going to kind of talk to you about your life . Sure , you're the… . Can we pause for one second ? Yeah , absolutely , because we're at the old triangle .
Speaker 2Did we say that already ? We didn't say that .
Speaker 1We're at the old triangle , we're at the old triangle .
Speaker 2And this is the start . You are season three premiere .
Speaker 1You are yeah .
Speaker 2So thank you . Episode 90 , season three . We have lots of episodes now .
Speaker 3The 90th episode .
Speaker 2The 90th , yeah , yeah , so sorry my friend , here you go and we have lots of random questions and stuff to ask you . I have a question for you right off the bat , before we get into this . I was looking for your audio book , and when is that coming up ?
Speaker 3You would have to talk to the publisher . Yeah , those are decisions that are way above my pay grade and my knowledge level .
Speaker 2Okay , I was looking for it . I was really hoping for it .
Speaker 3These are business decisions . I've had a lot of people ask for the audiobook , so there may well be an audiobook , yeah , but I think it's up to Nimbus , the publisher , to make that decision .
Speaker 2Well , if Nimbus wants to call me , we can do this exact same format over pints .
Speaker 3I'll gladly sit there and record the whole book with you , my friend . I think that would be a whole different book .
Speaker 2You just help me out as a DD or help me out with a get me home with a cab and I'm in right . I'm a hundred percent in right . That would be a real fun time , I think .
Speaker 1Yeah , I don't think he wants his book being slurred with slurred speech .
Speaker 2I was going to say fun might not be the word I choose for it . It might be a little dangerous . Yeah , the best audiobook of all time . I think I'd listen to it . Yeah .
Speaker 1So , yeah , in all seriousness , we've had a lot of rumblings over here , but you know what , Steve ? Yeah , we're really , really grateful that you decided to spend some time with us , happy to do it . You know you are definitely a legend in these parts . You know big time . You know all the interviews that you've gone through . You've been a staple up until you retired three years ago . You've been a staple in this home . I've watched you since I was a kid .
Speaker 2I appreciate it . My mother had the TV on every day and I'd hear your voice every day Clearly you come from very good people . No , I appreciate that very much . Thank you yeah 100% .
Speaker 1It's good to interview the interviewer .
Speaker 3Yeah , I don't like that , by the way . I'd far rather ask questions than answer them .
Speaker 2Yeah me too .
Speaker 1Yeah , fair enough , I guess , if you went on that side of the mic , I guess for a long time . But yeah , I mean we can dive into it . We get a bunch of questions . Yeah , sure , how often do we get to pick the brain of the crowd ?
Speaker 2So yeah , tell us what we're doing wrong and what we should be doing . Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 1So yeah , why don't we dive in there ? Mike , I think you're taking question number one .
Speaker 2Sure , yeah , oh no .
Speaker 3I am actually , it's me yeah .
Speaker 1So what's the biggest misconception that people have about interviewing and how do you overcome it ?
Speaker 2Misconception- on interviewing . That's a good question . I think there are a lot of misconceptions about interviewing .
Speaker 3There is a widely held view , or suspicion , that interview subjects often know what the questions are . Yeah , which perhaps with some interviewers they do . They never did with me . I don't know what your questions are that's right , yeah , I wouldn't .
Speaker 3I wouldn't want to know what your questions were . Frankly , I think it's better if it's a spontaneous exchange of ideas , but I think a lot of people suspect that the guests probably know what they're going to be asked and have time to prepare based on a list of questions . That's something that , as a journalist , I'd be completely against . I do know it does happen in other platforms that maybe are non-journalistic , and that's quite okay . But if you're doing a journalism exercise that involves an interview , the person you are interviewing should be hearing the questions for the first time . That's not to say that you can't give them an idea about areas you might want to discuss and , for example , when interviewing a prime minister or a head of government , it's not unreasonable for their people to want to know is there something the minister or the prime minister needs to be briefed on to fully answer the question ?
But I lost interviews because I wouldn't give people questions and , quite surprisingly , sometimes it's the highest ranking people whose people ask for the questions .
Speaker 2You know those higher ranking people themselves actually don't care With . You know Joe Rogan . He's a very popular guy these days . I guess Kamala Harris wanted things done a certain way and that's why the interview didn't happen .
Speaker 3Well , I don't know why the interview didn't happen . But I do know this that Joe Rogan would be right not to give Kamala Harris or anybody else the questions . I think there is a suspicion and I think suspicion is probably the right word for it , because people are very suspicious of so-called mainstream traditional media that people are told what to what to expect , and that certainly was never the case with me yeah yeah , no , that's good , you can tell that from your interview style too , because yeah , you were uh fair but firm that's what I always tried to be .
Speaker 3Yeah , uh , and I think fairness demands firmness if you want to know the truth , because if you're , if you're trying to interview somebody in what I call an accountability interview , that does require that you hold their feet to the fire a little bit , particularly when you are getting information that passes for an answer when in fact , it's something other than an answer . Just because somebody responds to you doesn't mean they're answering you .
Speaker 2I've got a question on that so I'm going to freestyle a bit off our page , matt Good , sorry , but we wrote it together just this morning . This is all very loose , anyway . Okay , exactly , do you find today that the interview format and I'm not talking about anybody in particular has changed Like ? Do you feel it's different , or do you feel the integrity of ? Like ? How do you feel the journalism is today as opposed to maybe 10 years ago ?
Speaker 3Well , we could do many hours on this subject . The one thing that I will say is that it's much different for a whole lot of reasons , some of which involve the technology we're using here . If you can believe , we're in a public house with broadcast quality gear , sitting drinking a beer , right . So the technology has changed . The social media delivery of content has changed . A lot has changed . The social media delivery of content has changed a lot and that has put a lot of pressure on again traditional or mainstream media to change and try to compete . What I think is missing in a lot of news media is depth and context , and , curiously , some of the media outlets that are most successful in a very competitive environment are those that are still doing context and depth . The New York Times and I'm not here to advocate for or against their editorial point of view on anything For sure , but they still do in-depth stuff , yeah , and they still do backgrounds and sidebars and so on , and I think they're very successful one of the most successful paywalled media platforms in the world still .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3So I think there is a need for more depth and context . Those things are being sacrificed , I think , to media that don't particularly do depth and context well , and I'll use what Mr Musk now calls X . That's a good example . I mean 280 characters . It's pretty limiting by nature . You're not going to get a lot of depth there .
Speaker 2And it's not a depth platform .
Speaker 3But I think there's a need for more depth and more context , it's interesting .
Speaker 1I mean , obviously over a long career , you speak very passionately about it , but was this something you always wanted to do ? Like is this like you know , like 10 year old Steve Murphy was like .
Speaker 3Well , pretty much I mean I , I never did anything else yeah .
Speaker 2I did the PA announcements in high school .
Speaker 3And I did . I wanted to be on the radio . Now , I will confess that in the beginning I was more interested in being on the radio as a teenager probably would be than in being a news reporter or a journalist or an anchor or all those terms . But I quickly decided that that is what I wanted to do . And on those occasions when I strayed away from what I call the news business and I don't want to get into the nuanced differences between the news business and journalism , but there are some differences when I strayed away from traditional journalism to doing radio talk shows , for example , I wanted to get back to the more serious side of reporting and interviewing . Not that a radio phone-in show is not capable of doing those things , but it doesn't have to do them , and a lot of days it doesn't do them .
Speaker 2Well , your one-on-one interviews what were they called ? You had the interviews , kind of like you were on the couch . What were they called ? They had a name , didn't they ?
Speaker 3No , they were just called the interviews .
Speaker 1But anyways they were very intense .
Speaker 2I remember watching those .
Speaker 3Some of them probably were .
Speaker 2I remember you sitting with Ashley McIsaac , for instance . I remember sitting on the floor and watching TV that particular episode and just being like whoa , Just completely drawn into the interview .
Speaker 3I'm glad to hear you say that , because I think in order to succeed , an interview has to have an engaging guest .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 3And I say this all the time Interviews are really ultimately about the guests , right it's . You know , this might come as a shock to some , but not to Joe Rogan . The reason Joe Rogan is so popular is not just because he's Joe Rogan , absolutely .
Speaker 2It's because he'll get .
Speaker 3Donald Trump .
Speaker 2Right and he'll get everybody else .
Speaker 3So , you know , it's the power of the guest that draws the audience . So your job , then , as you guys well know , is to ask questions that bring out the information that people want to hear from and about the guest .
Speaker 1But after a while , like for someone like yourself , after a while it does come a little bit about you because of what you bring and what people expect of you . Like I know , I'm a political junkie right and I love how you tackle all politics Well .
Speaker 3I appreciate that and I'm not going to claim you're wrong about that . Sure , there are those people who tune in because they like the interviewer , but what I'm saying is that what makes the interviewer successful ultimately is getting the guest , and getting the guest to answer and doing a good , competent interview is the way to get guests . It's a bit of a vicious circle . Well , yeah , but Joe Rogan is successful because Rogan gets guests and Rogan gets guests because Rogan is successful .
Speaker 1That's right , it's like Catch-22 , right ? I ?
Speaker 3get a pipe , because you guys have a podcast .
Speaker 1Exactly Same sort of thing . So yeah , because I know I've watched you interview a lot of politics over the days and , honestly , even though you're tackling serious issues , you're tackling serious topics , you're having serious interviews at the same time they're really entertaining . Oh sure , because sometimes I get to the point . I remember my wife and I watched many of your interviews and we're like , oh , it's like he's not letting this one go , he's not letting it go . He didn't answer the question .
Speaker 3You're like no , no , no , I'm not going to sit here all innocent and pretend there's not some entertainment value in that . But the point is , if it's just entertainment , it's not enough . If doing the job , if asking the questions , if being persistent happens to be entertaining , I'm fine with that . But if it's all about entertainment , then obviously you'd sit there with a big red nose on and a clown suit . And some people would say I probably did .
Speaker 1No , but I think people appreciate the fact that so many people are afraid to say you actually on numerous occasions said you didn't answer the question .
Speaker 3Right , that was your thing . Yeah , but the thing is , you're sitting at home watching and listening and you're all saying , hey , they didn't answer the question we did that in the mayor's debate we were proud of ourselves at a certain point .
Speaker 2So we I don't know if you heard this , but we had the four mayoral candidates on and we had a bucket of democracy , so we pulled viewer questions out of the bucket of democracy .
Speaker 3I'll go back and answer to them and we just read them out . So they didn't actually know the questions . No I moderated a Merrill T debate for the Lebanese Chamber of Commerce .
Speaker 3That's right and I think we were the only debate and this is not taking away anything from the other moderators , sure , but Norm Nahas and I agreed that they weren't getting questions and most of the other debate formats had given . A lot of them have prep and kind of this is what we're going to discuss . Right , these questions were as random as we had the top four and they they acquitted themselves very well .
Speaker 2They demonstrated a real . We had questions from previous guests . One I remember offhand was john reed was an astronomer , yeah , and he's talking about light pollution and traffic lights as like , as random , as they get some of these questions you're going to get random questions all over , yeah , all over Hell and Creation , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And it was really fun to see how everybody answered the questions and the one guy that knocked them out of the park . What was his name ? Matt , the last fellow we had on Zoran , zoran . So Zoran was a lesser-known candidate . Really nice guy . 16 questions .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , he answers many questions . He answers more questions than the other three combined , we thought we were going to run out of bucket .
Speaker 3Isn't it great , though , that we had I think we had 16 candidates from there . Yeah , it's pretty cool .
Speaker 1So we had four of them on , so we did a flight of mayor candidates with a flight of beers .
Speaker 2That's what our concept was , so we introduced every one of the beers yeah , yeah , Got to keep the beer in there , so you know .
Speaker 3Alexander Keith was mayor of Halifax . That's right , there you go . He was the fourth mayor . Fourth mayor , yeah , fourth mayor . So yeah , so it's you know it is what it is .
Speaker 1Actually , that came up not too long ago . We were talking about that . So , yeah , what's your question ? Just Ask him about Dion . Yeah , I wanted to talk about Dion because obviously that was in your book and you talked about that , and we kind of talked a little bit about that before we hit the record button too , about the unedited stuff and you had an unedited situation with Dion .
Speaker 3Yeah , I did . I mean it's well known and it's well documented . It's the first time I really talked about it at any length in the book because it was the first time I was totally free to talk about it , in the sense that I didn't make most of the decisions that ended up getting me and us into some trouble over it . I don't know what more to tell you about that incident other than what I've already said , which is that I think that it was really a confluence of a lot of odd circumstances .
Speaker 2And .
Speaker 3I know how it looked to people and I understand that it looked like we had set Mr Dion up and of course , we hadn't set him up .
I've spent a lot of time in the intervening . How many years is this 16 , 17 years trying to explain that to people . And by this time I accept that people either accept what I'm saying or they don't , and I'm not here to argue it or demean it .
Speaker 1I don't mind explaining it , which I tried to do in the book and you know what , and even my kind of like understanding of , because I'm a political guy , so I followed that a little bit anyway . I mean to be completely fair to you . I think Mr Dion did that to himself through many interviews .
Speaker 3Well , he may have done , but let's be completely clear about this , and to our listeners that might not know what this is what did he do ?
Speaker 2What happened Just ?
Speaker 1Matt , or however you guys want to explain it . I'll let Steve kind of explain that particular situation . Some of our younger listeners might have never even heard of this story .
Speaker 3Okay , so it was during the election back in 2008 or 2006 ? 2008 .
Speaker 32008 , that I was doing a series of interviews with the National Party leaders , as I always did . This was the second time I interviewed the Honourable Stéphane Dion over here at what used to be the Delta Barrington , and we started the interview and , for one reason or another , mr Dion couldn't answer the first question and he asked for a restart , something that if I had to do it over again I probably would not agree to do . Yeah , and something I've done rarely in my career , for reasons we can get into . But the point is , after the first restart , then there were multiple restarts and eventually we got the question off and the interview went ahead and saw it Subsequently , ctv , national News , made a decision that the outtakes , which were not actually outtakes , they were restarts .
Speaker 3Yes , and again , I don't want to get on the head of a pin here to debate language , but there is a nuanced difference . It was decided that Mr Dionne's inability to answer the question was newsworthy , so they played the entire exchange and so on , and CTV and including myself , you know , as the local anchor and interviewer we were widely criticized for that decision , for reasons that I understand , particularly if you're a partisan . Yes , the reality , of course , is it wasn't my decision to play the restarts or the false starts .
Speaker 2Why do you think they did that back then ?
Speaker 3I think they did it because they honestly believed , at the highest level and this was a decision taken by Bob Hearst , who at that time was president of CTV News that during an election campaign , the people should know exactly what happens and that , if Mr Dionne was not able to answer the question , that the public deserved to know that .
Speaker 2Because there had been some questions about his fluency in English .
Speaker 3I think , in fairness , mr Dionnene is a very bright man , likely a genius . His facility in English at that time was not considered to be particularly good and perhaps there was some thinking that that was illustrated by what happened in the interview . Suffice to say , in the politically charged climate in which we were operating , it soon became a bit of a political football , with some suggestion that CTV , you know , had conspired with the Conservatives to set up Stephane Dion et cetera and so on , and you know it was subject to broadcast standards complaints , broadcast standard council complaints , and CTV was chastised for the decision and there were questions about the question . The whole thing is really almost too long to get into here .
Speaker 1No , no , exactly , but that is what happened . Yeah .
Speaker 3As to why it happened . As I say , I think it happened because there was an unfortunate confluence of events which led to a lot of misunderstandings , and I think in the end , there was a decision made at the top level of CTV , journalistically to broadcast the material and we were left on the local and regional level to explain it .
Speaker 2And who knows if somebody from that level of executive level really wanted to have some sort of influence .
Speaker 1I know . I know , Maybe we don't think .
Speaker 3I know Bob Hurst well and I don't think so .
Speaker 3I do think that Bob honestly felt that during an election campaign that a media organization ought not to be seen cleaning up an interview for a man who wanted to be prime minister . And let me also add this I've been taken on by other journalists about this . I had a longstanding policy of not liking to edit interviews journalists about this . I had a long-standing policy of not liking to edit interviews . So when I was when I was told by some in journalism that restarts are commonplace , my response was well , they might be commonplace in journalism generally , but they haven't been commonplace with my interviews right that's .
Speaker 3That's cool . I would think in the probably five or six thousand interviews I did , we might have , we might have edited a dozen , usually for reasons of time or a technical problem .
Speaker 2We don't really edit on this show . We give our guests an opportunity if they want something removed , and usually that's more on our end . So if I start cursing or going , on a swearing time .
Speaker 1We're not news though . Yeah well , that's right . By the way , there's nothing wrong with editing .
Speaker 3And good journalism can be and should be edited .
Speaker 2We edit our ums and ahs and sometimes we stumble just to say a full sentence .
Speaker 1You don't have the same speech .
Speaker 3You should hear the stuff they just cut out . When we started doing long-form interviews on CTV News . Almost 25 years ago we decided we didn't want them to be edited . We wanted to go in a longer form and let the audience see what actually transpired . That's cool and I still think that is a good thing to do .
Speaker 2That's probably what brought the realism to your interviews . I mean they were fairly grounded , they were really fun to watch .
Speaker 3Well , here's the thing it puts more pressure on the interviewer as well , when you know you can't clean up your own mess . Oh that's true too , there were times when I asked a question and wished I could have cleaned it up , but we didn't . Yeah , yeah , it was embarrassing to ask a dumb question sometimes too , If you ask a question where you're , some of them are going to be dumb .
Speaker 1We're going to ask you a lot of dumb questions today . Well , you have . Well , there's four or five .
Speaker 3You cut out there earlier . But you know what I can't believe ? We've been here for four hours . It's hard to believe .
Speaker 1I know it's been long , I know it's the evening point , but going back actually to that Dion and like the news thing , because in your book you actually talk about being like non-biased . Now we everyone have their own personal bias . Oh , yeah for sure . How do you tackle that like being non-biased in the news while still having your own bias ?
Speaker 3Well , you know that is a great question
. The truth is , it is the job of journalists in journalism to set aside whatever their biases may be their predetermined ideas are , and enter into a somewhat dispassionate exercise about collecting information and opinions . It's a highly imperfect setup and no intelligent person comes to anything without certain pre-determined ideas . So I think it's a goal . You try to set aside your opinions at the door when you walk in , ask questions At least , I always tried to ask questions that I thought were probably what the listeners or the viewers might be wanting to know , or what should be asked in the public interest . But the point is , the entire process is editorial in the sense that you're deciding what to ask and what not to ask , and that itself is a somewhat biased proposition Right , of course .
Speaker 1Did you ever go into an interview just going like I'm nailing this guy's ass to the wall ?
Speaker 3No , I never did although . I had people accuse me of it , and Dion was a good example .
Speaker 2There were those who believed and probably still do believe that the whole idea was to go in and take this man down , not true , there are some times where you just might not like a human being .
Speaker 3right , Like you know , does it get difficult , well , but again , whether you like or don't like the person you're interviewing is kind of irrelevant , right ? Obviously , it probably does form some part of your approach to an interview or a situation , but I think we strive to be somewhat detached or somewhat balanced . To me , journalism is about being , first of all , be accurate , be fair and be balanced to the best of your ability .
Speaker 1But even the most balanced people occasionally fall off the tightrope 100% and you can not answer this if you want . But I'm curious . Just peeked in my brain here what was probably the most frustrating interview you've ever had to do .
Speaker 3Well , I say in the book that I stopped looking at interviews in that way . You know the most this or the worst that or the best this or that . I mean the Dion interview ended up being extremely frustrating because I was asking the same question repeatedly , because I wanted Mr Dion to answer that question . I didn't want to change the question to get an answer , and I was later criticized for asking a question that was grammatically imperfect .
Speaker 3And you know what it probably was according to the rules of grammar grammatically imperfect and you know what it probably was according to the rules of grammar , but you know , if you , if you , if you parse any question with with a enough precision , you'll find something wrong with it . So no , that was . That was frustrating . I'll tell you the interviews that are very frustrating . Now that I look back on it , and many of my interviews most of them were live or live to take , but many were live there's nothing more frustrating than when you're dealing with a really competent interview subject , someone who's bright and fully in command of their subject , who knows that by obfuscating and offering a long preamble , that you'll get into your questions .
Speaker 3And we've got a couple of people and I happen to have great respect for both of these people , but I'll mention the Honorable . Scott Bryson was very adept at that . The Honorable . Dominic LeBlanc was very adept at that , because they know if you've got six minutes and they can take three minutes to offer the niceties and do the first answer , that's the self-editing reality .
Speaker 2It's a politician thing . No , it's not .
Speaker 1With a previous company they used to work for . I went through media training because I was the media go-to person for nova scotia .
Speaker 2I asked you a question . You tell me about driving around the entire block to the question nine times . You never .
Speaker 1When I went to , when I come back from media training in toronto and they talked to me about this stuff , about here's how you answer questions . When people are asking . It's like talk as long as you can stick to your points , get in fewer questions and when any , and if they ever say anything at the end and say like hey , do you have anything else to add Always answer it , and always answer it with something positive . It's not just politicians , it's businesses .
Speaker 3I think it was Ronald Reagan who said about Thomas P . Tip O'Neill , the longtime Speaker of the United States House of Representatives , said if you ask Tip the time , he'd tell you how to make a watch . It's kind of like that . By the way , if Dom or Scott happen to hear what I'm saying , I'm not really criticizing them . I understand exactly why they did it and they're very good at it . They're two very bright guys . Dominic LeBlanc is still probably one of the most powerful men in Canada , even though most people don't know it , but he's very good at managing the media menu and that's one of the reasons he's so successful . Fair enough , probably never get another interview with him .
Speaker 2I hope you do . No , I know I would , I bet you would . I think people respect their interview opponents , especially if I mean you were never going out to do what I would call . There is a term out there called gaunt journalism , for sure , and I find that is I don't like that .
Speaker 3To be honest , though , don't you think a lot of that , like ? Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder ? Right , if I'm interviewing someone and you happen to like them to speak of science , let's speak of your bias . Yeah , if I'm interviewing somebody and you like them and I'm being really tough on them , you think I'm out to get them .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's true , that's true , but at the same time , there is times too , there are journalist styles where this is not your style , and I've seen it Like . You ask an expert on column A about column B that a gentleman might have or a woman might have absolutely no idea about that circumstance , right , and they're using it to prove their own point or their own agenda for their own documentary , say Right . And that certainly's what makes this now too .
Speaker 3Yeah , and , incidentally , we're seeing more and more interviews that are born of formats that are about opinions . Yeah , and the conflation of reporting with editorializing is of grave concern to me , and we're seeing a lot more of it , particularly in the United States , but increasingly in this country and in Europe as well , where the reporter seamlessly flows from reporting facts into expressing opinions . And I say enough of it , stop it . There's room and there's need for opinions , but they have to be separated , clearly delineated , from the fact-based reporting , and it's the conflation of the two that is really ticking off a lot of people and , I think , bringing journalism into , if not disrepute , at least into some level of suspicion .
Speaker 2And we don't need that . I think political divide sometimes hurts good interview questions as well , because it comes with a bit of a defensive stance , particularly if media companies have a bias .
Speaker 3Well , and do corporations have a bias ? Yes , well , the answer to that is they're corporations , aren't they ?
Speaker 2So their bias is to make them money Right , and I'm not going to sit here and apologize for that . Let me tell you this I've worked for some very large corporations in this country and I've never once been told by anybody who has a corporate role what to do editorially , and I underscore never . Yeah , yeah , and I only did this for 45 years I worked for local and I worked for regional and that's very fair and I'm underscoring never yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's very fair . You know , I honestly I I don't know , maybe , maybe this is my bias , but I kind of feel like canadian media is a lot better than it is in the US . I feel it's less bought , but maybe I'm wrong .
Speaker 3I hope that's true , but I also think that when we get on a high horse , we're looking to get knocked off .
Speaker 1No , that's fair . I mean , I'm not saying I think it's better , Matt , and .
Speaker 2I don't want to be the pessimist here at the party , but I think it's getting worse . I think it's getting more divided . I mean , you and I had a conversation today on Spring Garden Road with a person that we just bumped into . That's right . That told us .
Speaker 1Exactly what they , you know they loved .
Speaker 2They loved a particular politician , a particular politician and they thought the politician we had now was trash . And yeah , the reasoning was very aggressive .
Speaker 3Yes , that's true .
Speaker 2And we kind of talked back to them and said you know , we like the person that's here now . We don't like all their decisions , we don't hate the person .
Speaker 1We may not like all their decisions , and the other guy on the other end , like you know , there's not much of this .
Speaker 3You know , mike and Matt , you've just defined civility , something that is disappearing . It's disappearing not only in media , but in almost all of our social discourse , and that's the problem .
Speaker 2I mean , the three of us ought to be able to sit here and disagree and do so in an agreeable fashion and like each other , or at least respect each other at the end of it .
Speaker 3I didn't make up the idea of disagreeing without being disagreeable , but that is what I'm talking about the civil exchange of ideas in which people who disagree respect each other enough to say , okay , let's have a pint . In a short amount
of time of doing this podcast . We've been labeled as both conservative and liberal . Well , I could identify with that . I've been accused or celebrated for being all of the above and none of the above , and it's just because it's like I like that issue and I like this about your party , but I don't like that about your party .
Speaker 3I'll tell you something funny . Sure , we went through a number of years when Mr Harper was prime minister , when CTV was being described as conservative television , that's right . And I also worked for CTV long enough to remember when Crate Channel was in power , when people said CTV was Crate Channel television .
Speaker 2So you know .
Speaker 3Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder , and so does bias .
Speaker 1But I think that is what I mean when I'm saying why Canada is a little bit less . It's because you're saying you were never ordered to say or do anything . Um , do , do , as you said corporations , businesses . They are going to do things and they're going to act in a way that's beneficial to them , um , and their shareholders , and their shareholders , of course . Now , that being said , though , so like , we all have our bias , but I mean , there's just too much out there about , like , what happens in the US and their media . But you know the guy , rupert Murdoch , coming down and saying do this .
Speaker 3Well , there's no doubt about that . Do you have any doubt that Elon Musk is dictating content on X ? 100% . Why do I see him all the time on the platform ?
Speaker 2I see him every time I turn on X't . I don't follow , I can't unfollow he mandatory followers , one billion followers , exactly yeah but yeah so the publisher has a certain right to have her or his opinion absolutely reflected . We have a belief on this show that you know , uh , you know , be kind , listen to each other . Uh , try not to put each other down and try to work together to find a common solution or a common ground .
Speaker 1That's the philosophy of this show . It's breaking the proverbial liquid bread .
Speaker 2Yeah , and we try to push in our narrative .
Speaker 3And start by the way is , pretty well , liquid bread .
Speaker 2It is liquid bread .
Speaker 1It's a good lunch .
Speaker 2Yeah . This is the best place for I don't know . Guinness tastes better at the Old Triangle .
Speaker 3They really do , and so Guin has our logo on it . Guinness tastes better in Ireland . Have you been to Ireland ? No , I haven't .
Speaker 2I spent a month in Ireland , did you ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and in 2008 , ancestry's from there . So in 2008 , I took some time off and I said we have good family friends over there . And they said we have good family friends over there . And they said I got a trailer . You can stay in there for as long as you want , Just fly over , it's yours . And I went over there for the whole month of May in 2008 . Nice , drank Guinness every day .
Speaker 3It tastes better over there .
Speaker 1It does taste better over there .
Speaker 3No doubt about it . I met a guy when we were over in June and I ran into a fellow in a pub and he said when you get to Belfast , go to Biddle's . It's the best pint of Guinness you've ever had . And of course I've heard this about virtually every bar in Ireland , but Biddle's in Belfast may be the best pint of .
Speaker 1Guinness I've ever had .
Speaker 3I spent a lot of time in Belfast and darned if I know why . But I said to Heather we're the amazing Crescent God rest his soul . But it was particularly good .
Speaker 1Huh , I mean , I don't know , I'd have to , you know , go back and really truly experiment again , but I can tell you .
Speaker 2We've got to get the show over there for a few episodes . Yeah , I'd love to do that . That's what we should try to do this year .
Speaker 3If you want to do afternoon pints .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3Ireland's the place . And here's the great thing , you wouldn't have to line up any guests .
Speaker 2No , we just took somebody at that table over there . That was always a goal of ours , timmy , over at the bar Timmy Donovan , then Get him to come over . That would be great . Yeah , that was a goal of ours early on .
Speaker 1It was like let's just get somebody sitting at the bar that we don't it . In the afternoon it was empty , except for this one guy who would sit there and he would sit there and he'd watch us do our show right .
Speaker 1Every single time we were like , hey , want to do an episode , just sit and chat with us , we'll find out who you are . And he's like nah , we're like all right . Well , whatever , we tried , yeah . But you know what , though ? It's true , though , over in ireland I was like I mean , I was 23 when I went there not even 23 yet and uh , I had so many great chats with people .
Speaker 3Yeah , the art of conversation , particularly in the Irish pubs , is extremely well practiced .
Speaker 2I want to get there .
Speaker 3And you're never a stranger in a pub in Ireland .
Speaker 1Do you go over often , Steve ?
Speaker 3I've been to Ireland many times .
Speaker 1Matt said you were part of the Charitable Irish Society .
Speaker 3Well , I've been a member and I've done speeches for the Charitable Irish . The Charitable Irish is one of the oldest organizations of its kind . It's like 1700 or something like that and it still does a lot of good work , and Eric Greiner , who's the GM of the Old Triangle , is the president .
Speaker 1Yes , that's right , and Sharon Flanagan is the vice president . Brian's a board member or something as well ?
Speaker 3Yeah , and Brian of course is the Honorary Consul of Ireland . Yes , brian Daugherty has done probably more than well he would argue this but he's probably done more to elevate the Irish presence in Halifax than anybody , since Dennis Ryan and Dennis did a lot in the early days . I had Dennis on the radio when I was doing the radio show a few weeks ago . Oh , doherty are the two Irish people who've probably done more than anybody I can think of to elevate the Irishness of Halifax .
Speaker 2He was an awesome episode last year .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1That was a good time . Listen to that one , guys , if you get a chance to go back .
Speaker 3We had Brian on , brian on I should include Joe McInnes too , up at Dirty Nellie's , because Joe runs a great place up there .
Speaker 1He does run a great place , very nice guy .
Speaker 3And I shouldn't say that when I'm sitting in Doherty's place , but I know that they're also friendly rivals . There you go .
Speaker 1Well , on St Patrick's Day , neither one of their places have a place to sit . It's a standing room only . They'll probably do for you , fellas .
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 1That's nice . Maybe you know what I it live for the whole day .
Speaker 2Live for the whole day .
Speaker 3Wouldn't that be fun . Just sit in the corner and let everybody come by . You'd have to call that the 5 am . Hi , mr , why are you up here ?
Speaker 2We'll throw it up , see we could throw it up on YouTube , dude , and just have a camera .
Speaker 3And just whoever wanted to come over and say , hi , you'd be editing that , it'd be . Oh yeah , speakers .
Speaker 1Corner . You know what that came up ? I watched a little clip on this just last week and it was this old , old clip of Speakers Corner with Mike Myers , before he was famous . Yeah , I saw that Wasn't that cool .
Speaker 3That was an amazing idea Speakers City TV invented that . Moses Neimer invented the idea that you could literally walk up to a camera . I think he had to put in a loonie or something at the time and Looney or something at the time and it activated the camera and you could say whatever you want .
Speaker 1There was an alarming amount of that content that was created by people who may have had more than a pint yeah , even like Barenaked Ladies before they were famous went and sang a song . It was what a cool concept .
Speaker 3They should bring it back , but everybody's got a speaker's corner now . It's called an iPhone . They just did something where they had a portal set up between Madison .
Speaker 2Square and somewhere over in the UK I can't remember , but they shut it down within 24 hours because it was just getting too cruel .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , I don't remember , but I know exactly what you're talking about . Where was the ?
Speaker 2portal from . It was from New York to . It was London to New York . London to London Didn't last very long , no it didn't .
Speaker 1Anyway , that's enough rambling , I guess .
Speaker 3Yeah , sure .
Speaker 1Are we rambling , I guess , yeah , yeah , back to . I mean , another organization , gia , I need to talk about . That's what happens when you have punks .
Speaker 2Another thing , Steve Murphy , top of my mind , I think of Christmas Daddies and you've been .
Speaker 1Isn't that a great thing ? Yeah , it's the best .
Speaker 2A really amazing thing to be affiliated with man Like holy smokes .
Speaker 3Yeah , and it's such . Well , I was going to say it's such a maritime thing and it is , but it's such a Halifax thing .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 3And I say that because it started in a pub . Do you guys know that it started in the old Derby pub ?
Speaker 1I did not know that On .
Speaker 3Goddison Street in 1964 . And it got started because a couple of guys from the radio and television station , Jim Hill Sr and Jack Dalton , were out to have lunch , which involved afternoon pints or quarts , and there was a child who came in panhandling for money and the child kept being thrown out of the pub . Wow . So when they got back to the station they said to Finley McDonald , who became Senator Finley McDonald that there ought to be some kind of a television show to raise money for needy kids at Christmas and they did one .
Speaker 2If the Avenue Pike can help out this year 2025 , where this episode's airing , we're in . Yeah , let us know Let us know what we could do , we'll show up anywhere .
Speaker 3Well know what we could do , we'll show up anywhere , you can give anytime , and the money is administered by the Salvation Army . And it's not just toys . People think kids need more than toys and the . Salvation Army is also delivering food , and I don't know that it's always grocery baskets . It may be gift cards and so on , but there's a food component to it as well and they give every dime they can back .
Speaker 2They're a pretty awesome organization , they're such a scrupulous organization .
Speaker 3Here's a quick story . I don't know that I've ever got to tell this . I think it's about 20 years ago . We got involved with the Salvation Army as the agency to deliver Christmas Daddy's funds . Maybe a little bit longer ago than that , but the person who was most instrumental in building that relationship was a man named Brian Petal , who at that time was the commander of the Salvation Army for Nova Scotia . He and his wife , rosalie Newfoundlander lovely people . Brian went on to become the general of the Salvation Army for the world Wow , he was the leader of the Salvation Army on the earth and he remained a dedicated Christmas Daddies supporter . I had a note from Brian since the last Christmas Daddies . He's now retired , but that tells you something about the Salvation Army that the global head of the Salvation Army retained an abiding interest in Christmas Daddies . Wow .
Speaker 1You know what that's ?
Speaker 3an amazing thing .
Speaker 2That is amazing , it's another idea for 2025 . We've got to get into the Christmas Daddies . You know what , Actually ?
Speaker 1I'm actually really happy we had this chat with Steve . Let's go back to basics .
So it started in a pub . So last year 2024 , we actually in May we held a fundraiser at a brewery , at a pub .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , yeah , great Roads for a gentleman , one of our guests . He's an indigenous hip-hop artist . He has many health issues that are terminal and he had kind of a thing that he wanted to do where he wanted to go and record with Drake's producer in Toronto . He can't fly because of his medical issues and all this stuff , so it was going to take them a while . They couldn't drive for a long time anyway , so it was a long trip . So we actually held a fundraiser . This brewery , uh , great roads , uh agreed that we could make our own beer and we were hoping , like you know , to sell the beer office and kind of raise funds . Yeah , and they said that they would actually donate 10 of all food and all beer purchases that day during our event . That was huge and yeah , it was huge . And yeah , it was huge and it was actually . They told us afterwards it was standing room only .
Speaker 2It was actually their biggest single sales day ever since they were open and you can watch on YouTube us making the beer . We made a little video .
Speaker 1Yeah , we did a little video of us making the beer . We made a coffee brown , oh nice . So it turned out really really nicely .
Speaker 2I'd be liking it 6.5 . He gave it higher . I liked it , but I didn't love it right ? You know I want a little more kick next time .
Speaker 3Yeah , it was 4.2 , right and this was a 4.0 beer .
Speaker 1Yeah , so it was yeah .
Speaker 2Wow , that's terrific , but it was great .
Speaker 1But let's do that .
Speaker 3Yeah , we up and got a beer this year , although it's changed in recent years . So much money has been raised for Christmas . Daddies in pubs you know the North End pub . Kay Bryan , the pie lady , used to raise money up there , danny Ladder and Jamie Ladder over at Big League's Beverage Room . Big League's Beverage Room there's a 1960s term for it , but the Big League's pub .
Speaker 3they raised hundreds of thousands of dollars . Pubs that are now long gone . Right they really ? I think they embraced Christmas Daddies because of where it started . Some people are uncomfortable with that . I'm not .
Speaker 2No , I'm not either . No .
Speaker 3Some people are uncomfortable with the name Christmas Daddies . I'm not . It's a very , very old , outdated name for a wonderful idea that's not outdated .
Speaker 1Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 3And it's not just about christmas and it's not just about daddies and sure I , I hear people want to take take pokes at both parts of the name . I say leave it alone .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , at the work . Yeah , exactly , no , I .
Speaker 3Yeah , some things are perfectly fine to remain as they are , but well , they're not perfect , but well , the heritage is in the name and I used to say to jane kansas , because the late j Jane Kansas , who was a tremendous journalist and an advocate for all kinds of human rights God rest her soul she used to really , really criticize the name and I said to her , jane , if we can come up with a name , a new name , on which there could be a consensus , I think everybody would go with it .
Speaker 2Can we change it to Stepdaddies , just for one year I'm a stepfather . That'd be kind of cool . You're kind of making my point , which is .
Speaker 3You know , we don't maybe think it's a perfect name in the 21st century . So what would be ? Anyway , it's not just for Christmas and it's not just daddies , obviously . It's done a tremendous . It's raised $38 million . And it's still a volunteer effort run by people who work in a television station .
Speaker 1That's incredible .
Speaker 2That's amazing , we had .
Speaker 1Ian Robinson on here and , I believe , roxanne .
Speaker 3Isn't he one of the best ? Yeah , he's awesome , he is and one of the nicest I don't know .
Speaker 2and Roxanne is the title of his episode is like maybe the nicest guy or nicest guy ever , or something like that . We didn't know what I've titled that episode . And here's the thing about ian , if I could talk , are we allowed to talk ?
Speaker 3listen , ian is not only a nice guy , he's a really sincere , authentic believer in what he does he loves the moose and now he's doing the lacrosse . Yeah , but he listened to him on the radio .
Speaker 1He's an authentic guy yeah , he loves his work and it shows and he's a .
Speaker 3He's a tremendous guy .
Speaker 1Yeah , no , couldn't , couldn't , yeah , couldn't agree more . So kind of , I guess , talking about the you know inclusive and you know all that type of stuff , how do , when you're going about an interview , do you Kind of think about there was , like you know , inclusive terms like how do you be inclusive and still be curious at ?
Speaker 2the same time .
Speaker 1I try to be accurate . That's a good answer . Okay , that's good .
Speaker 3And I think accuracy is sort of by nature inclusive .
Speaker 1I agree with that . People like to be called what they want to be called . I have no problem with that whatsoever . I'm with you . No problem with that whatsoever , and I don't yeah .
Speaker 3I'm with you , no problem with that whatsoever . Yeah , and I don't know why people want to make a problem out of it .
Speaker 2Really , so what are your plans ? I think you're doing some public speaking . Is that right ? Are you looking into getting into public speaking events ?
Speaker 3I'm doing a certain amount of that already , and by that I mean I'm speaking to groups and organizations and podcasters .
Speaker 2Losers . He just said losers . I'm doing those guys later . No , I'm doing some of that .
Speaker 3I'm still doing a lot of MC work , okay , philanthropic and charity things Cool . Still doing Murphy's Logic , which is an editorial I do for CTV every other week . Just did about 10 weeks hosting Open Line Radio on Mondays on News 95.7 . Nice , it was fun . And I'm doing a little bit of private work , you know , on a sort of consulting basis , kind of the backstage stuff . But I'm busier than ever , really just not working on somebody else's schedule anymore which is okay .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , I think I would agree with that . Like I don't know if I will ever really fully retire , I think I would just , you know , I say I've rewired yeah , not retired or repurposed as another way . Well , we had mike savage on the same like savage and saying now he couldn't tell us obviously what was coming , yeah , when we had him on , but he was top secret about it , but now I think it had to be yeah , but uh no .
Speaker 3I . I mean Mike and I are around the same age and obviously Mike still has a lot to offer . I actually , you know the fair-minded can debate whether we need to have a lieutenant governor and whether the royals need to form part of our constitutional democracy anymore .
Speaker 1However , I want to talk about that because we're both wearing our collada rings .
Speaker 3Well , no , but here's the whole point , until we change the system and I don't know that we can change it we should respect it and work within it . Fair enough If we're going to have a lieutenant governor in this province . I think Mike Savage will be a good lieutenant governor .
Speaker 2I agree with that . I truthfully do .
And I know Mike and Darlene well . In fact , I should put it out there that I maintained no sort of strong friendships with any elected officials while I was in the media , but I never denied the friends I had before they became politicians . Fair enough , I've known Mike for a long time .
Speaker 2Steve , I'm going to get a picture of you .
Speaker 3I know this is weird , but you've got that AP glass with the print on the top and I said , geez , I don't know if I'm going to get it . I don't want to spill any .
Speaker 2No , that's perfect .
Speaker 3Just like , just like that , but I think Mike and Darlene will be exceptional vice regal people , because I think they are genuinely community involved people , and I think Mike is going to find a way in fact I'm certain he's going to find a way to do something unique with that office . And I think , as I say , if we're going to maintain the trappings of the monarchy and the royal system , make sure we have some really good community-involved people in those roles and I think we're going to do that .
Speaker 1I couldn't agree more with that . I will happily label myself anti-monarchist .
Speaker 3See , I wouldn't go that far . I think the time is probably right for a Canadian head of state . Agreed , but until we can find a way to execute that constitutionally , we have the head of state , we have .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's true . And that person happens to be the king of England , Trump again for a second there Head of state there , right ? Oh yeah , that's scary . That's a whole other subject .
Speaker 3But no , at the moment it happens to be the king of England who is also designated to be the king of Canada . Thank you , and again , the fair mind can debate whether Canada needs a king . Yes , and I would probably argue we could do without a king but we do need a head of state . No , I agree with that . So until we can find another way , a different way , respect what we have and expect the best from the people we've got .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , I agree with that . Expert answers . Yeah , Steve . Expert answers .
Speaker 1Expert answers from the expert interviewer . Are we allowed ?
Speaker 3to drink water here too ? Yes , absolutely .
Speaker 1I've been mixing it up too .
Speaker 3It looked like water ?
Speaker 1I'm not sure . Straight vodka for you , okay .
Speaker 2All right .
Speaker 1So we're going to play our little 10 questions game .
Speaker 2This is kind of a silly part of the show , silly and fun . You guys aren't old enough to remember . Reach for the top . Reach for the top .
Speaker 3No , fill us in okay , so high school , high school sent in teams to answer general interest questions in halifax . It was moderated by jerry fogarty , who was a tremendous broadcaster . Yeah , and les studley was the host of the show , and the short questions were called the short snappers .
Speaker 2The short snappers , well , these don't have to be short . They don't have to be short , so these could be long and introspective , I don't care if you take two hours to answer one of these or they could be short , so these are long and boring . When we had Houston on the show here , what we did with him is we said answer the question or take a sip . If you didn't feel like answering the question , you could have a sip of your beer .
Speaker 3You can get a pass right . Did the premier take some sips ?
Speaker 2He took two On poutines or donairs . These are really silly questions . Now which one's your favorite right ? You think that's silly ? That's a pretty silly question . I guess it's maybe controversial .
Speaker 3What's silly ? Poutine or donair ? That's not a silly question . No , he took a sip . What's your favorite ? So my mother ? No , no true story . My mother's people were Acadian , so what we called poutine growing up is not like the poutine that you get today .
Speaker 2So describe that for a second for people that don't know .
Speaker 3It's more like almost like a pie . The crust can be a little dry . It's certainly not covered in gravy and curds . I can tell you that . So here's the thing If I'm going to pick between poutine as we now now have it as fast food and doner , I'm going with doner .
Speaker 2Okay . Why do you say that ?
Speaker 3Well , because I think . Well , neither is a health food , no , no but , I , think doner is an authentic Halifax thing .
Speaker 3I think that obviously most of us have never had one before 11 o'clock at night . No , I think it's an authentic Halifax thing and I think the whole idea of the gravy and the curds I feel my arteries clogging . Now I know they're clogging with the donair too . My doc's probably listening , saying get him on a diet . I think I'd go with the donair , but , by the way , I'd be very picky about my donairs . A lot of what I see being offered up as a donair , I'm thinking donair-ish .
Speaker 1It's interesting , my wife's from Quebec , so I like a traditional Quebec poutine . Yeah , me too . The cheese curds , the real good .
Speaker 3The poutine that we would have had in Acadia and New Brunswick was not Le Membre Chausse .
Speaker 1It was different , yeah , that being said yeah , yeah , so it's yeah , but I mean . That being said , though , I'm a sucker for a Donair . I had Donair pizza two nights ago .
Speaker 3But have you ever had any of these things that they call Donairs in other parts of Canada ?
Speaker 1No , they're not even close . They're not even close . They're Donairs , they're not .
Speaker 2Yeah All right , okay , so here we go . We're going to start off with this one Very easy question . Maybe easy question what ? Is one of your favorite beverages . Oh , stout , there you go , murphy's , murphy's , murphy's Stout . Right on , go ahead .
Speaker 1Matt , all right . So if you could only save one national newspaper for your country , would you pick the National Post , the Globe and Mail , or another one , globe and Mail ?
Speaker 2Globe and Mail , all right . Why do you think humans ? Are drawn to having power or influence over others Told you we like going a little round . Yeah we're all around .
Speaker 3Would you repeat the question ? Certainly , we've gone from donators to the essence of life .
Speaker 1Yes , exactly . Okay , that's how we do .
Speaker 2Why do you think humans are drawn to having power or an influence over others ?
Speaker 3I assume it's genetic . It's probably primitive . I don't know , why do dogs want to be in packs ? I don't know , why do we have any personalities ? I guess it's in the DNA . Yeah , cool .
Speaker 2Quick answer yeah , all right your turn .
Speaker 1Do you have any phobias ? I hate rats .
Speaker 3Rats Okay , matt's a rat , I don't know , I'm afraid of them so much as I really just don't like them . Right , that's fair .
Speaker 1I don't think anyone likes rats .
Speaker 3I think the word phobic and phobia they're misused a lot . A lot of what is described as phobia isn't so much fear as dislike . But I can't stand rats and I even know why . It's because in grade eight my English , my English teacher , peter Armstrong Gilchrist , gave me George Orwell's 1984 to read , and I don't know if you can remember 1984 . And the role of the rats in that story . But enough said , I can't even safely think about it . I really detest them .
Speaker 2Do you have a fear , mike Fear ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I have an irrational fear of like hornets and wasps , and I've been stung many times .
Speaker 2Not irrational , though , yeah , I guess it's a rational fear , but I get way too nervous when I see one . But I mean , and knowing that I've been stung and it doesn't hurt that bad and I can get through . I haven't had things that hurt more than that happen , uh . But yeah , every time I see one I'm like you know what ? I mean I , I'm on my needles .
Speaker 1Yeah and uh . I've had that since I was five years old . For as long as I can remember , four or five years old , um , you're afraid of them truly afraid of them .
Speaker 1I get them and I mean like you have to get them , um , but uh , it's the weirdest thing , like I , I've , I've thrown up , I've gone into convulsions , that's phobic , true phobia , like honestly like when I had to go my covid shot , I had to sit in my car for 20 minutes after I left because I had to just sit and calm down , because I can't drive .
Speaker 2And this is after it's already done . That's phobic . Yeah , no , I don't know if it's phobic , maybe it's more of a hate , because I took my mother out for a birthday , I remember , and there were all these hornets around . I just couldn't be outside . I was like we've got to go endorse one . Take her in . Yeah , all right , next one . Oh , so I think . Correct me if I'm wrong on this . This is what I thought I read . You've interviewed over 5,000 people . Is that correct , or is it closer to another number ? Oh well , it would be at least . Yeah , nobody , really knows .
Speaker 3Yeah , the math would have it be well over 5,000 .
Speaker 2Okay , if you could interview one more , just one more person , dead or alive , anyone you wanted , who would you choose ? Could ?
Speaker 3be anybody , it could be Gandhi . He'd be a good one .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3One person dead or alive ? Hmm .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's tough Pick one that pops into mind .
Speaker 3Well , but so many are popping into mind right , yeah , yeah , yeah . I always thought and I'm going to throw out a couple of names before maybe reaching a conclusion In her lifetime I thought the Queen would be fabulous to interview , because nobody did . Yeah , I mean , the Queen didn't do interviews . Popes don't do interviews , although this Pope does . He's done some interviews .
Speaker 1Yeah , he's pretty down to earth .
Speaker 3Selfishly . I'd love to interview Churchill , winston Churchill , oh cool .
Speaker 1It's so funny . We were actually walking down Spring Garden Road today and I saw the Churchill statue and I just kind of jokingly said , hey , we should get Churchill on the podcast .
Speaker 3I'm surprised , but pleased that nobody's taken that statue down , because he's such a wholly imperfect person . You know , churchill wrote more words than Shakespeare and Dickens combined .
Speaker 2Really , I didn't know that . Holy smokes Wow .
Speaker 3I just think he was such a consequential person and again , I don't venerate at the altar of Churchill , if you will , because he was so imperfect . There was much he did that was not entirely commendable and some of it was pretty despicable . However , I think he was one of the towering figures of the 20th century and I think he'd be fascinating . You'd have no trouble getting him to have a pint . You'd have a problem getting him to stop .
Speaker 2He'd have no trouble getting him to have a pint . He'd have a problem getting him to stop . He'd probably be a kind of guy to come on the show . Oh , I think so . I think he'd say , oh , I'd go have a beer . He wouldn't remember it afterward , but he probably would have done it .
Speaker 3As you know , he prosecuted the Second World War , intoxicated , for virtually all of it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yes , the thing is like I've watched so many versions of Netflix .
Speaker 3Now have you watched the Netflix docu-series .
Speaker 2That's what I'm trying to remember .
Speaker 3It's a four-parter , it's just out .
Speaker 2Is that the one , or is that brand new ? It's recent . I haven't seen anything brand new . I saw where John Lithgow played Churchill and he did a remarkable job .
Speaker 3I thought , yeah , yeah yeah , which is amazing because Lith said there about how he was hugely in the 20th century .
Speaker 1I mean World War II obviously impacted the world in such a big way , profoundly , but I think even still it's more than what people realize . When you go down we have plastic bags because we decided to change . They needed metal and things like that . Like plastic got used more because of it .
Speaker 3I agree . And one other thing that I , and again , I've been reading about Churchill for most of my life One of the things that many people around here don't realize is that one of his intimates was a Maritimer , max Aiken , lord Beaverbrook , from New Bruns , brunswick , who is a guy , another guy who punched way above his weight , another man , you know , small in stature , huge in influence , can really control fleet street , the , the british press , but he and churchill were extremely close , okay , and that such a person from our corner of the world had such an outsized influence on an outsized person like Churchill , I think is underappreciated . Yeah wow .
Speaker 3Very cool yeah , and I think they had a couple of pints as well .
Speaker 1Alright , so question six here . So this one truly changes it up again .
Do you think animals have souls ?
Speaker 3Tell me what a soul is and I'll answer the question . Great question . Oh , I think we have to simplify our choice .
Speaker 2Tell me what a soul is and I'll answer the question . Great , oh , oh . I think we have to sip our drinks , yeah I gotta take a drink , I guess let me qualify .
Speaker 3I live with an australian shepherd named ramsey and ah boy yeah he's a spirit man , there's no question . Yeah , I don't know .
Speaker 1Well , st Thomas Aquinas would say that we are our souls attached to carbon bodies . Okay , and it's the soul that is the likeness of God . There you go . Wow , that's deep man .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's St Thomas Aquinas . We're into Aquinas into a coin this year already .
Speaker 2yeah yeah , this is the perfect follow-up question . That last question how do you handle awkward or unexpected moments during an interview ? Just handle it , yeah , yeah , and like , what like ? Do you have any ? Like , just kind of , you stay calm , kind of well , you try to stay calm .
Speaker 3I had a conversation with a few people yesterday . We were talking about , you know what , what's the key to life ? And in a sort of a big picture sense I say it's the key to everything is preparation . But you know , when we live our lives we're preparing , basically just preparing for whatever comes next . But the key in an interview is to be prepared and to have a good understanding of who the person you're speaking with , is , what their prepared and to have a good understanding of who the person you're speaking with is , what their background is , to have a pretty good understanding of what their opinions are . And if you are well prepared , then you remain calm and just carry on Right .
Speaker 1Stay calm and carry on , steer into the skid a little bit and just be like , well , that was awkward . Moving on .
Speaker 3You know what I've done ? That yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3All right , it's my turn . I think it's my turn .
Speaker 2Yeah . Cool , so name a place that you are most certain that you have visited and you never will again Place you visited for the last time .
Speaker 3Yeah , because I don't want to go or because of whatever reason .
Speaker 2Whatever reason , you know , maybe maybe you have no reason to go back there , or maybe you don't want to go back there . It's just kind of a philosophical , I don't know . It doesn't have to be that deep . Maybe you didn't like the food there . I think that's a fairly deep question .
Speaker 3It could be a lot of deep implications there . A place that I won't go again ? Hmm , does it have ? Okay , I am never going to sit behind a horse again . How's that ?
Speaker 2sure , okay , one time when I was hosting live at five .
Speaker 3I had to sit . I had to sit in a carriage behind a horse on a harness racing track and I realized in that moment , looking at the rear end of that horse , those legs were really scary and I'm never sitting behind a horse again . Now , that's not the kind of place you had in mind . That's a place , that's a place in my mind , and I don't ever About a phobia . I have a fear of the hindquarters of horses , that's fair .
Speaker 2Their kicks can kill you . Kicks can kill you . It's a rational fear .
Speaker 3Anyway , another place , I don't know . I've liked almost everywhere I've gone because I like going places yeah , yeah , you know what ?
Speaker 1okay , well , we can log up one question for me , one question that we asked the premier and , uh , he thought it was a tough one , but we'll , we'll do a little . Question b to this one is would you , uh , would you rather , are you a type of person who would like to go to the same place , like over and over again , a familiar place , or go somewhere new , both ?
Speaker 3I've been going to the same place in the dominican republic for 25 years . Okay , but I love going new places and anytime I go to a country I've been before , I always want to go to new places . But I want to do both . I like the comfort and the familiarity , yeah of returning , and I like the joy of exploration .
Speaker 1You know what ? You and I are really similar in that . What did the Premier say ? He says he does like to explore , but he likes familiarity . He likes familiarity Because he and Carol lived in Bermuda for a long time they did yeah .
Speaker 3Here's a story that , just to toss it out there . I first knew Tim Huston when he proposed marriage to his wife because his wife's father was my editor . Oh wow , at ATV . Art Steves oh , there you go . I saw it at Christmas Daddy's . He's the only person who has worked on all 61 Christmas Daddy shows . Art Steves , the father-in-law of Ringer Tim Houston Wow , very cool . There is some trivia for the afternoon pint listener .
Speaker 1Oh , there you go . Yeah well , we'll take that , that's a good one , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 3Okay , number nine $1,000 a minute on Mint 100 . Do I get $1,000 ? I'll buy you another pint if you want . Wow , okay , give me the $1,000 and I'll buy you a pint .
Speaker 2All right , number nine . This is another great question . What is your Wi-Fi password ? You don't want to answer . You can take a drink . How about the ?
Speaker 3truth .
Speaker 1I don't know .
Speaker 2I can't remember . Actually , I do know what it is because I had to change it yesterday . I had to change up my modem . Oh my gosh , that's a pain in the arse . Yeah , that's a lot .
Speaker 3My Wi-Fi password is hard to remember .
Speaker 1The best part is if it actually was hard to remember .
Speaker 2That would be perfect .
Speaker 3Yeah , really oh shh , we're not supposed to tell anybody ?
Speaker 2Question 10 , our last question . So we had a last question . We asked everybody last year that we remembered to do these 10 questions with . We forgot a lot of the times , but it was , you know , last year . What was it last year ? I forget now what was one thing you could do to make the world a better place . Everybody could do to make the world a better place .
Speaker 3And almost everybody said be kind , which I thought was a thing . Yeah , well , yeah , I'm not going to go with something quite so um broad as be kind , because , yes , of course , be kind , treat others as you want to be treated . The golden rule , by the way , is is common to virtually every culture that has ever existed on earth , every religion , every philosophy . I think we need to go . I think we need to go beyond that now . I think we need to be civil , more civil , particularly to those and with those with whom we disagree yes , that's not being kind , no that's going further than that that's kind of like the jesus of nazareth teaching love thy enemy , it's not enough to love your neighbor .
Speaker 2There's a lot of examples out there where some people , or if you're in a political party , maybe you help each other out . You don't have to always agree with everyone and everything . You can learn so much from people .
Speaker 1I often say that political parties aren't sports teams . Yeah Right , but they are .
Speaker 3They are sports teams . They're the life sports teams . Yeah Right , yeah , but they are . They are sports teams . They are sports teams If someone's a conservative , a liberal , an NDP . It's not like they're an Eagles fan , so you can still like them , it's interesting , though , because in this country , until fairly recently , the political parties were more like sports teams than they were like philosophies .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 3That happens to be very different right moment if you look nationally . The Liberal Party of Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada are very far apart on policy . And the NDP is somewhere in the middle , I think , trying to figure out where they are .
Speaker 2They seem a little lost in identity to me at this moment .
Speaker 3Really , they've been outmaneuvered by the Liberals , who've become way more progressive .
Speaker 2I'd like to speak highly of Claudia Chender , who I hope comes on the show this year . I think she's fantastic . I think , she seems like a very brilliant woman .
Speaker 3She's a very good political leader . I think she's very decent smart , I think Zach Churchill by the way to give a shout-out to a guy who just announced he's stepping away . Another decent human being who you know know caught in the crossfire of politics .
Speaker 1You know , I , I , um , I was uh , like I , I , I like what tim is doing with this province right now . So I was happy to see the mandate that he received you and 52 of the people who voted that's right . Where were the ?
Speaker 3rest of you , by the way yeah 55 . Who didn't vote ?
Speaker 2unbelievable . Yeah , that's crazy that many people didn't vote it is yeah , yeah , we we definitely got the get out and vote .
Speaker 1We tried to champion that . That being said , I listened to Churchill's speech on election night and , honestly , one of the best times he has ever spoken , and I wish he carried that through the whole time he was in politics .
Speaker 3May I share an observation that I've made following I don't know how many interviews with defeated people or people who've stepped away from political office . Quite often , the best interview they've ever done with me was the one they did after they lost or after they quit . It's because after you lose or after you quit , you don't have the burden on your shoulders anymore . You are truly unencumbered and you're able to say what you want .
Speaker 1Do you feel that way now ? Oh yeah 100% .
Speaker 3I mean I've got opinions that I've been sitting on for 35 years . I mean yeah .
Speaker 2All right , let's hear them . They're all coming out on their audio book that's being released later this year .
Speaker 3Yeah , exactly no but one of the things I do when I do give speeches and presentations is I say ask me anything , and here's what I'll tell you about that . Just because you can ask me a question doesn't mean I have to give you an answer . But telling you I'm not going to give you an answer is an answer .
Speaker 1Like if .
Speaker 3I don't know or I won't tell you is an answer . I don't know is a fine answer People that's underrated .
Speaker 2I love I don't know .
Speaker 3That's my favorite answer it also has the virtue of usually , or often , being true yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , okay .
Speaker 1So , the new season three question .
Speaker 3You're the first one getting this .
Speaker 1You're the first one getting this .
Speaker 2This is going to be the question that's going to carry on for the rest of the year .
Speaker 3As our closer question oh okay , so I won't even be in the country when this happens ? No , that's right .
Speaker 2Yeah , so Matt go ahead , all right . So what was he said ?
Speaker 1good , no , I'm kidding , I know you can get it . We have one person in Russia who listens to us every week .
Speaker 2Yeah , there you go , you get all around the world . Yeah , we got a Russian fan . 48 countries is where we're listening to in 48 countries .
Speaker 1Yeah . So last question was what was one bit of advice that you've received in your life that you would like to share with others ? Tell the truth . Tell the truth Like it Okay .
Speaker 3Yeah , my father , who's a very , very wise guy , said to me if you tell the truth , you don't have to worry about who you're telling which lies to and he didn't mean it in a joking way , but he was more than half serious about it . If you basically call it straight , you don't have to keep changing your story .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's , true so yeah , I think , tell the truth . Now , do you sometimes have to put a glove on the hard hand of truth ? Yeah , you do , because that's a decent civil thing to do , fair enough . But basically , tell the truth , yeah , yeah it's a great answer , matt .
Speaker 2What would you
do that one ? Yeah , since this is the season opener , you had a bit of advice , life advice that you'd love to share with others that you're receiving all right .
Speaker 1Was that what we're doing ? I wasn't expecting . Why not man ?
Speaker 2why not ? We got a few more minutes here .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , okay , yeah , um , I would um , honestly , for me I guess I don't know I'm thinking because , like , I am in like a , I guess , a management role and I always tell people kind of the same thing , but it's a act like act , the role that you want to be and a little bit of that and also with us that goes along with it is , um , when , make it obvious to everyone else in the room , when , if it's something that you want to do , make it obvious to everyone in the room , that's great well , you're defining authenticity in a sense .
Speaker 3There aren't you ?
Speaker 2yeah , my dad gave me a good one , uh , I think in the last year or so , right , so it's cool getting like ones later in life . That really sink in . I think I was really mad about something and he said , mike , if it doesn't matter in 20 years , don't worry about it now . I like that it was just kind of really cool when you get upset about those little things that drive you crazy . So it was great advice , Dad , if you're still listening , yeah thanks .
Speaker 1One last thing , Since we have the expert here is there any advice that you can give us personally .
Speaker 3No , I keep doing what you're doing .
Speaker 2Thanks , man , I think we will , 100% will .
Speaker 3The people who are listening to this can't see it , but you guys are having fun with this , you take it seriously , but you don't take yourself seriously , right ? So , yeah , I think it's a great concept and I got to tell you , the podcast world is so cluttered that finding the niche is hard . I think the afternoon pint's a pretty cool idea .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's working so far , so we're going to keep it going . So we really appreciate that . I have to say hi from Heather in Colorado , who is a super fan of you . Okay , Hi .
Speaker 1Heather , there you go , that's it .
Speaker 3Yeah , Colorado .
Speaker 2Yeah , there we go , and anything else .
Speaker 1No , I think that's pretty much everything . I mean , yeah , it was the podcast stuff . I mean I guess there was one thing that we never got to . What was it ? Just about technology and how you feel that . What technology is , how it's going to affect news , kind of moving forward news media whatever I mean , how has it affected it already ?
Speaker 3All the changes we've seen are due , in no small measure , to technology . The technology I'm most . It's not technology in the purest sense , but what I'm most concerned about now is artificial intelligence . Yeah , and I'm just in the purest sense , but what I'm most concerned about now is artificial intelligence . Yeah , and I'm just in the middle of in fact , I'm I'm almost in the back end now of of nexus by uval noah harari , and if you haven't read it , I suggest you do .
Speaker 3Um , it's pretty frightening yeah sobering is a good word for it . It doesn't do any good to be frightened by it . What's ?
Speaker 2the gist of what they're trying to talk about in that book .
Speaker 3Well , I mean he's talking about the evolution of all communication and where it goes , now that we are , for the first time in human history , not going to be necessary for communication .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 3Up until this point , all communication has involved humans . Artificial intelligence doesn't need us to communicate , it communicates with other intelligence .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3Artificial intelligence , and he's actually suggesting that artificial intelligence may be alien life .
Speaker 2Could be sentient , yeah . Alien life , yeah . So yeah , no , really that's cool . I love that .
Speaker 3I love reading about this stuff and the reason that I worry about that is because it's important to know what's true and what's not true , and it's important to know where information comes from . It's important to know the motive of the source , and I think that's going to become increasingly difficult , if not impossible , with artificial intelligence .
Speaker 2Already this year . Do you know what happened this year with SEOs , or search engine optimization ?
Speaker 3Because I'm in the podcast world .
Speaker 2I'm obsessed with trying to get our podcast seen and heard . I love all those sentences that are terms that I don't understand , so search engine optimization is really just showing up on top of a Google search right ? So if you search afternoon point , I want you to see our podcast and not some dude in Dublin having a drink , right , okay , unless .
Speaker 3I'm the dude in Dublin , yeah .
Speaker 2But anyways , what's happened now is AI can now generate it can actually generate my entire episode description , so it will listen to this whole episode , it will actually write everything for me , and then I go in and I fine tune it Like , okay , that's not actually what happened . If , if the , if the ai reading into our episode or reading the transcript was inaccurate , I correct it and then I put it out . But anyways , what's happening now is all these ais promise to be the most search engine optimistic , like that . They'll all show up at the top of the Google charts . So then what effectively happens ? With all of these AI voices speaking , nobody gets heard .
Speaker 3Right . What happens when you're totally left out of that , though , and the AI just decides to do what it wants to do , irrespective of what ?
Speaker 2you think , I know , yeah , I mean it could happen and Harari tells a wonderful
story .
Speaker 3The book is I mean , it's a beautiful book , yeah , he's . He's a fabulous writer . He tells a story about how ai confronted a captcha and it was required to identify .
Speaker 2I don't know all the bicycles in the picture and of course , the ai can't see the capt .
Speaker 3So what it did was it pretended to be a visually impaired person and it asked another human .
Speaker 2To get assistance . Yeah , yeah , yeah , it's crazy so .
Speaker 3AI is already devious . So what's that tell you ? It's not only artificial intelligence , but it's devious in its behavior , so it's becoming more and more like us . Right Because we are devious yeah yeah , of course . Yeah , so where does that end ? I don't know , but he postulates that we may lose control of it .
Speaker 2So You're going to put my book out . Man , I've got a book all about .
Speaker 3AI taking over the world that I wrote A fiction book . Did you really ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I wrote the first five chapters of it . I never . Then I stopped , so I should probably get back on it , maybe get ai to finish it for you but uh , but you know where I'm going with this .
Speaker 3Yeah , this is potentially somewhat frightening stuff it is .
Speaker 2I mean it's , it's one of those things . So what do you do ? Right , because I mean I see , as a creative , there's there's a lot of different creative thoughts when you , when you introduce ai , like one things that can kill creativity . Right , like I can , basically I could say , make me a painting of steve murphy .
Speaker 2Having a pint into my meta can already do it and it's right there yeah , but I mean , on the other hand of it , it's , it gives me , uh , almost like a how do I I don't want to say this uh , god-like composition , uh like , if I want to say write me a , a screenplay about such and such and such and such and such and such , all of a sudden I've become a screenwriter , a director , a .
Speaker 3And you're none of the above actually Exactly right ?
Speaker 2I haven't trained to do any of these things .
Speaker 3So is this the right time to reveal to all of the people who are listening that this is all a creation of AI're , we're not real people .
Speaker 2There were .
Speaker 3No , there were no , there were no points . You know it's shorting out , it could come to that . Yeah , no , it's true .
Speaker 1You know what it's . It's funny . The um that I I don't like . It's like I'm in some ways I'm . People ever want to let go of humanity .
Speaker 3But they might not have any say over it .
Speaker 1They might not know what's happening .
Speaker 3You know the old sayings about once the toothpaste is out of the tube .
Speaker 1Yes .
Speaker 3Well , this genie may be out of the bottle to use an underbottle .
Speaker 2It's installed on our phones now . It's built into the iPhone now .
Speaker 3And the whole idea of Frankenstein may have come true Right .
Speaker 2Could be .
Speaker 3You can create a monster that you can't control . We may have done that .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean there's another way to look at it . Do you watch Star Wars ?
Speaker 3You know I've watched Star Wars . The first time I went to Star Wars I fell asleep . No , I appreciate Star Wars , I'm more of a Star Trek guy . Okay , cool , I know Star Wars , one of the newer .
Speaker 2Star Wars shows I think it's the Mandalorian . They go to a planet where basically the AI just takes care of everything for them and they don't have to do anything and they're just the laziest , sloppiest human beings of all time , but they're extremely happy and wealthy . So maybe that version will happen . Let's hope for that .
Speaker 3Well , okay .
Speaker 2You are an optimistic person , I guess . No but the danger is that that won't happen .
Speaker 3Yeah , and that , instead of being the masters of the of the technology right will be the slaves yeah , yeah , I .
Speaker 1You know what I got from all of this . Well , that we need to do another type of podcast where we just go and have a bunch of beers and we just call it steve's opinions , sure , and what we do is we get Steve like six points to me To be continued .
Speaker 3Listen , it doesn't take when you spend as many years as I did constraining your opinions . Believe me , they're all in there . Yeah , as I say , they're itching to get out .
Speaker 2Well , Steve , you're welcome to come back on the show . You're welcome back anytime . I appreciate it , guys , If you've got a thought now or if you want to come close the year out with us , come getting closer to
next year . Anytime you want , my friend .
Speaker 3Why don't we meet here again a year from now and do it all over again ?
Speaker 2Sounds amazing to me , just to see what happens ?
Speaker 3Yeah , because you know , I can guarantee you that by the end of uh , 2025 , stuff will have happened that we could not possibly have anticipated . Oh , I like right we could sit and talk about all those things I like it .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , you know what cheers .
Speaker 2Happy new year to that .
Speaker 1We're a week later , but yeah , great , thank you very much appreciate the hospitality .
Speaker 2Appreciate the hospitality at the Triangle . Thank you , old Triangle . They're the best , you guys are awesome . Cheers , love the snugs . Yes , bye .