Unraveling Objectivity and Media Influence with Broadcasting Legend Steve Murphy

Canadian journalist and retired news anchor Steve Murphy joins us at the Old Triangle Irish Pub for a spirited conversation that begins on Guinness vs Murphys Irish Stout and ends on how AI might be the end of us. Join us for an insightful conversation with an expert journalist  who's interviewed over 5000+ people. Steve is a career philanthropist, who has done some tremendous work through the charity orginizaton Christmas Daddies. His newest book Murphys Logic is out on bookshelves now in case you haven't already read it. Thank you Steve for opening our season 3 premiere with a bang! Join us for some entertaining and respectfully unedited conversation. 

#afternoonpint #season3 #premiere #stevemurphy #novascotia #ctv #liveat5 #canada #christmasdaddies #2025 #murphyslogic

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Transcript

Interviewing Misconceptions and Overcoming Them

Speaker 1 0:14

We can circle back to it.

Speaker 3 0:16

That's a great way to start the show.

Speaker 2 0:19

Okay, so we can start with a cheers Welcome to the show. You can introduce yourself on this show, okay, so cheers Hi my name's Murphy like the beer. Steve, steve, nice to meet you.

Speaker 3 0:29

Nice to meet you as well, you're Mr Guinness, I'm Mr Murphy over here, there we go.

Speaker 1 0:32

I'm Mr Murphy today too.

Speaker 2 0:34

Yes, we're here with Steve Murphy.

Speaker 3 0:37

Can't have too many Murphys.

Speaker 2 0:39

No.

Speaker 3 0:39

Well, you can't have too many Murphys. Actually, there you go. I mean, sure, I mean pints of Murphys.

Speaker 1 0:45

Well, that depends. We can test the limits.

Speaker 2 0:48

Now, murphys used to be a super popular stout and that's kind of. Well, it used to be. It's not like the top anymore. No, it isn't, but in.

Speaker 3 0:55

Ireland. You know, in the west and the southwest of Ireland Murphy's is the most popular stout.

Speaker 2 0:59

Still is?

Speaker 3 0:59

yeah, it is the number two stout in Ireland. In this glass it's worn off the back, but it has a big two on it. It says we're number two but we're not bitter. Oh.

Speaker 1 1:08

Because Murphy's is a little rougher. It is.

Speaker 3 1:10

Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 1:14

Here. That's awesome. We were told this is your favorite pint.

Speaker 3 1:18

Yeah Well.

Speaker 1 1:19

Murphy's is my favorite pint I like the other stuff too. You have the Guinness, so it's pretty good.

Speaker 2 1:25

So I actually have a non-alcohol Guinness and an alcohol Guinness here that I'm balancing.

Speaker 3 1:29

I'm trying to figure out the point of non-alcohol Guinness, which is pretty good by the way it tastes fantastic.

Speaker 2 1:35

And if you're driving, if you want to be safe, then have one beer and then you can have a non-fun beer. Put cheers to that. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 1:42

It is. Yeah, you know you've got to be responsible, although I don't think it's doing what you think it's doing there, Mike, and that's counteracting. I don't think it does that.

Speaker 2 1:51

I have to drink three of those, the non-unfalls to one alcohol for them to counteract chemically.

Speaker 1 2:00

It's not an antidote. Where's your question?

Speaker 2 2:01

board there. Question board. Oh, we have a question board here for you. It's on the phone. Yeah, we're going to go through a bunch of things here.

Speaker 1 2:07

But we do one thing that we have a running theme is at the end we actually do kind of like 10 rapid fire questions. So we'll get to that eventually, but until that time, we're going to kind of talk to you about your life. Sure, you're the…. Can we pause for one second? Yeah, absolutely, because we're at the old triangle.

Speaker 2 2:23

Did we say that already? We didn't say that.

Speaker 1 2:25

We're at the old triangle, we're at the old triangle.

Speaker 2 2:26

And this is the start. You are season three premiere.

Speaker 1 2:30

You are yeah.

Speaker 2 2:31

So thank you. Episode 90, season three. We have lots of episodes now.

Speaker 3 2:40

The 90th episode.

Speaker 2 2:41

The 90th, yeah, yeah, so sorry my friend, here you go and we have lots of random questions and stuff to ask you. I have a question for you right off the bat, before we get into this. I was looking for your audio book, and when is that coming up?

Speaker 3 2:55

You would have to talk to the publisher. Yeah, those are decisions that are way above my pay grade and my knowledge level.

Speaker 2 3:02

Okay, I was looking for it. I was really hoping for it.

Speaker 3 3:04

These are business decisions. I've had a lot of people ask for the audiobook, so there may well be an audiobook, yeah, but I think it's up to Nimbus, the publisher, to make that decision.

Speaker 2 3:12

Well, if Nimbus wants to call me, we can do this exact same format over pints.

Speaker 3 3:16

I'll gladly sit there and record the whole book with you, my friend. I think that would be a whole different book.

Speaker 2 3:21

You just help me out as a DD or help me out with a get me home with a cab and I'm in right. I'm a hundred percent in right. That would be a real fun time, I think.

Speaker 1 3:30

Yeah, I don't think he wants his book being slurred with slurred speech.

Speaker 2 3:39

I was going to say fun might not be the word I choose for it. It might be a little dangerous. Yeah, the best audiobook of all time. I think I'd listen to it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:43

So, yeah, in all seriousness, we've had a lot of rumblings over here, but you know what, Steve? Yeah, we're really, really grateful that you decided to spend some time with us, happy to do it. You know you are definitely a legend in these parts. You know big time. You know all the interviews that you've gone through. You've been a staple up until you retired three years ago. You've been a staple in this home. I've watched you since I was a kid.

Speaker 2 4:06

I appreciate it. My mother had the TV on every day and I'd hear your voice every day Clearly you come from very good people. No, I appreciate that very much. Thank you yeah 100%.

Speaker 1 4:16

It's good to interview the interviewer.

Speaker 3 4:18

Yeah, I don't like that, by the way. I'd far rather ask questions than answer them.

Speaker 2 4:21

Yeah me too.

Speaker 1 4:22

Yeah, fair enough, I guess, if you went on that side of the mic, I guess for a long time. But yeah, I mean we can dive into it. We get a bunch of questions. Yeah, sure, how often do we get to pick the brain of the crowd?

Speaker 2 4:34

So yeah, tell us what we're doing wrong and what we should be doing. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 4:40

So yeah, why don't we dive in there? Mike, I think you're taking question number one.

Speaker 2 4:43

Sure, yeah, oh no.

Speaker 3 4:44

I am actually, it's me yeah.

Speaker 1 4:46

So what's the biggest misconception that people have about interviewing and how do you overcome it?

Speaker 2 4:53

Misconception- on interviewing. That's a good question. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about interviewing.

Speaker 3 4:57

There is a widely held view, or suspicion, that interview subjects often know what the questions are. Yeah, which perhaps with some interviewers they do. They never did with me. I don't know what your questions are that's right, yeah, I wouldn't.

The Changing Landscape of Interviews

Speaker 3 5:10

I wouldn't want to know what your questions were. Frankly, I think it's better if it's a spontaneous exchange of ideas, but I think a lot of people suspect that the guests probably know what they're going to be asked and have time to prepare based on a list of questions. That's something that, as a journalist, I'd be completely against. I do know it does happen in other platforms that maybe are non-journalistic, and that's quite okay. But if you're doing a journalism exercise that involves an interview, the person you are interviewing should be hearing the questions for the first time. That's not to say that you can't give them an idea about areas you might want to discuss and, for example, when interviewing a prime minister or a head of government, it's not unreasonable for their people to want to know is there something the minister or the prime minister needs to be briefed on to fully answer the question? But I lost interviews because I wouldn't give people questions and, quite surprisingly, sometimes it's the highest ranking people whose people ask for the questions.

Speaker 2 6:07

You know those higher ranking people themselves actually don't care With. You know Joe Rogan. He's a very popular guy these days. I guess Kamala Harris wanted things done a certain way and that's why the interview didn't happen.

Speaker 3 6:20

Well, I don't know why the interview didn't happen. But I do know this that Joe Rogan would be right not to give Kamala Harris or anybody else the questions. I think there is a suspicion and I think suspicion is probably the right word for it, because people are very suspicious of so-called mainstream traditional media that people are told what to what to expect, and that certainly was never the case with me yeah yeah, no, that's good, you can tell that from your interview style too, because yeah, you were uh fair but firm that's what I always tried to be.

Speaker 3 6:49

Yeah, uh, and I think fairness demands firmness if you want to know the truth, because if you're, if you're trying to interview somebody in what I call an accountability interview, that does require that you hold their feet to the fire a little bit, particularly when you are getting information that passes for an answer when in fact, it's something other than an answer. Just because somebody responds to you doesn't mean they're answering you.

Speaker 2 7:12

I've got a question on that so I'm going to freestyle a bit off our page, matt Good, sorry, but we wrote it together just this morning. This is all very loose, anyway. Okay, exactly, do you find today that the interview format and I'm not talking about anybody in particular has changed Like? Do you feel it's different, or do you feel the integrity of? Like? How do you feel the journalism is today as opposed to maybe 10 years ago?

Speaker 3 7:37

Well, we could do many hours on this subject. The one thing that I will say is that it's much different for a whole lot of reasons, some of which involve the technology we're using here. If you can believe, we're in a public house with broadcast quality gear, sitting drinking a beer, right. So the technology has changed. The social media delivery of content has changed. A lot has changed. The social media delivery of content has changed a lot and that has put a lot of pressure on again traditional or mainstream media to change and try to compete. What I think is missing in a lot of news media is depth and context, and, curiously, some of the media outlets that are most successful in a very competitive environment are those that are still doing context and depth. The New York Times and I'm not here to advocate for or against their editorial point of view on anything For sure, but they still do in-depth stuff, yeah, and they still do backgrounds and sidebars and so on, and I think they're very successful one of the most successful paywalled media platforms in the world still.

Speaker 2 8:38

Yeah.

Speaker 3 8:38

So I think there is a need for more depth and context. Those things are being sacrificed, I think, to media that don't particularly do depth and context well, and I'll use what Mr Musk now calls X. That's a good example. I mean 280 characters. It's pretty limiting by nature. You're not going to get a lot of depth there.

Speaker 2 9:22

And it's not a depth platform.

Speaker 3 9:23

But I think there's a need for more depth and more context, it's interesting.

Speaker 1 9:28

I mean, obviously over a long career, you speak very passionately about it, but was this something you always wanted to do? Like is this like you know, like 10 year old Steve Murphy was like.

Speaker 3 9:37

Well, pretty much I mean I, I never did anything else yeah.

Speaker 2 9:40

I did the PA announcements in high school.

Speaker 3 9:44

And I did. I wanted to be on the radio. Now, I will confess that in the beginning I was more interested in being on the radio as a teenager probably would be than in being a news reporter or a journalist or an anchor or all those terms. But I quickly decided that that is what I wanted to do. And on those occasions when I strayed away from what I call the news business and I don't want to get into the nuanced differences between the news business and journalism, but there are some differences when I strayed away from traditional journalism to doing radio talk shows, for example, I wanted to get back to the more serious side of reporting and interviewing. Not that a radio phone-in show is not capable of doing those things, but it doesn't have to do them, and a lot of days it doesn't do them.

Speaker 2 10:26

Well, your one-on-one interviews what were they called? You had the interviews, kind of like you were on the couch. What were they called? They had a name, didn't they?

Speaker 3 10:35

No, they were just called the interviews.

Speaker 1 10:39

But anyways they were very intense.

Speaker 2 10:43

I remember watching those.

Speaker 3 10:44

Some of them probably were.

Speaker 2 10:46

I remember you sitting with Ashley McIsaac, for instance. I remember sitting on the floor and watching TV that particular episode and just being like whoa, Just completely drawn into the interview.

Speaker 3 10:59

I'm glad to hear you say that, because I think in order to succeed, an interview has to have an engaging guest.

Speaker 1 11:05

Yes.

Speaker 3 11:06

And I say this all the time Interviews are really ultimately about the guests, right it's. You know, this might come as a shock to some, but not to Joe Rogan. The reason Joe Rogan is so popular is not just because he's Joe Rogan, absolutely.

Speaker 2 11:18

It's because he'll get.

Speaker 3 11:18

Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 11:19

Right and he'll get everybody else.

Speaker 3 11:21

So, you know, it's the power of the guest that draws the audience. So your job, then, as you guys well know, is to ask questions that bring out the information that people want to hear from and about the guest.

Speaker 1 11:33

But after a while, like for someone like yourself, after a while it does come a little bit about you because of what you bring and what people expect of you. Like I know, I'm a political junkie right and I love how you tackle all politics Well.

Speaker 3 11:48

I appreciate that and I'm not going to claim you're wrong about that. Sure, there are those people who tune in because they like the interviewer, but what I'm saying is that what makes the interviewer successful ultimately is getting the guest, and getting the guest to answer and doing a good, competent interview is the way to get guests. It's a bit of a vicious circle. Well, yeah, but Joe Rogan is successful because Rogan gets guests and Rogan gets guests because Rogan is successful.

Speaker 1 12:13

That's right, it's like Catch-22, right? I?

Speaker 3 12:16

get a pipe, because you guys have a podcast.

Speaker 1 12:19

Exactly Same sort of thing. So yeah, because I know I've watched you interview a lot of politics over the days and, honestly, even though you're tackling serious issues, you're tackling serious topics, you're having serious interviews at the same time they're really entertaining. Oh sure, because sometimes I get to the point. I remember my wife and I watched many of your interviews and we're like, oh, it's like he's not letting this one go, he's not letting it go. He didn't answer the question.

Speaker 3 12:50

You're like no, no, no, I'm not going to sit here all innocent and pretend there's not some entertainment value in that. But the point is, if it's just entertainment, it's not enough. If doing the job, if asking the questions, if being persistent happens to be entertaining, I'm fine with that. But if it's all about entertainment, then obviously you'd sit there with a big red nose on and a clown suit. And some people would say I probably did.

Speaker 1 13:14

No, but I think people appreciate the fact that so many people are afraid to say you actually on numerous occasions said you didn't answer the question.

Speaker 3 13:23

Right, that was your thing. Yeah, but the thing is, you're sitting at home watching and listening and you're all saying, hey, they didn't answer the question we did that in the mayor's debate we were proud of ourselves at a certain point.

Speaker 2 13:32

So we I don't know if you heard this, but we had the four mayoral candidates on and we had a bucket of democracy, so we pulled viewer questions out of the bucket of democracy.

Speaker 3 13:42

I'll go back and answer to them and we just read them out. So they didn't actually know the questions. No I moderated a Merrill T debate for the Lebanese Chamber of Commerce.

Speaker 3 13:49

That's right and I think we were the only debate and this is not taking away anything from the other moderators, sure, but Norm Nahas and I agreed that they weren't getting questions and most of the other debate formats had given. A lot of them have prep and kind of this is what we're going to discuss. Right, these questions were as random as we had the top four and they they acquitted themselves very well.

Speaker 2 14:12

They demonstrated a real. We had questions from previous guests. One I remember offhand was john reed was an astronomer, yeah, and he's talking about light pollution and traffic lights as like, as random, as they get some of these questions you're going to get random questions all over, yeah, all over Hell and Creation, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 14:26

And it was really fun to see how everybody answered the questions and the one guy that knocked them out of the park. What was his name? Matt, the last fellow we had on Zoran, zoran. So Zoran was a lesser-known candidate. Really nice guy. 16 questions.

Speaker 1 14:41

Oh yeah, he answers many questions. He answers more questions than the other three combined, we thought we were going to run out of bucket.

Speaker 3 14:47

Isn't it great, though, that we had I think we had 16 candidates from there. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 14:52

So we had four of them on, so we did a flight of mayor candidates with a flight of beers.

Speaker 2 14:57

That's what our concept was, so we introduced every one of the beers yeah, yeah, Got to keep the beer in there, so you know.

Speaker 3 15:03

Alexander Keith was mayor of Halifax. That's right, there you go. He was the fourth mayor. Fourth mayor, yeah, fourth mayor. So yeah, so it's you know it is what it is.

Navigating Bias in Journalism

Speaker 1 15:11

Actually, that came up not too long ago. We were talking about that. So, yeah, what's your question? Just Ask him about Dion. Yeah, I wanted to talk about Dion because obviously that was in your book and you talked about that, and we kind of talked a little bit about that before we hit the record button too, about the unedited stuff and you had an unedited situation with Dion.

Speaker 3 15:37

Yeah, I did. I mean it's well known and it's well documented. It's the first time I really talked about it at any length in the book because it was the first time I was totally free to talk about it, in the sense that I didn't make most of the decisions that ended up getting me and us into some trouble over it. I don't know what more to tell you about that incident other than what I've already said, which is that I think that it was really a confluence of a lot of odd circumstances.

Speaker 2 16:02

And.

Speaker 3 16:03

I know how it looked to people and I understand that it looked like we had set Mr Dion up and of course, we hadn't set him up. I've spent a lot of time in the intervening. How many years is this 16, 17 years trying to explain that to people. And by this time I accept that people either accept what I'm saying or they don't, and I'm not here to argue it or demean it.

Speaker 1 16:24

I don't mind explaining it, which I tried to do in the book and you know what, and even my kind of like understanding of, because I'm a political guy, so I followed that a little bit anyway. I mean to be completely fair to you. I think Mr Dion did that to himself through many interviews.

Speaker 3 16:42

Well, he may have done, but let's be completely clear about this, and to our listeners that might not know what this is what did he do?

Speaker 2 16:49

What happened Just?

Speaker 1 16:50

Matt, or however you guys want to explain it. I'll let Steve kind of explain that particular situation. Some of our younger listeners might have never even heard of this story.

Speaker 3 16:57

Okay, so it was during the election back in 2008 or 2006? 2008.

Speaker 3 17:02

2008, that I was doing a series of interviews with the National Party leaders, as I always did. This was the second time I interviewed the Honourable Stéphane Dion over here at what used to be the Delta Barrington, and we started the interview and, for one reason or another, mr Dion couldn't answer the first question and he asked for a restart, something that if I had to do it over again I probably would not agree to do. Yeah, and something I've done rarely in my career, for reasons we can get into. But the point is, after the first restart, then there were multiple restarts and eventually we got the question off and the interview went ahead and saw it Subsequently, ctv, national News, made a decision that the outtakes, which were not actually outtakes, they were restarts.

Speaker 3 17:46

Yes, and again, I don't want to get on the head of a pin here to debate language, but there is a nuanced difference. It was decided that Mr Dionne's inability to answer the question was newsworthy, so they played the entire exchange and so on, and CTV and including myself, you know, as the local anchor and interviewer we were widely criticized for that decision, for reasons that I understand, particularly if you're a partisan. Yes, the reality, of course, is it wasn't my decision to play the restarts or the false starts.

Speaker 2 18:20

Why do you think they did that back then?

Speaker 3 18:22

I think they did it because they honestly believed, at the highest level and this was a decision taken by Bob Hearst, who at that time was president of CTV News that during an election campaign, the people should know exactly what happens and that, if Mr Dionne was not able to answer the question, that the public deserved to know that.

Speaker 2 18:37

Because there had been some questions about his fluency in English.

Speaker 3 18:42

I think, in fairness, mr Dionnene is a very bright man, likely a genius. His facility in English at that time was not considered to be particularly good and perhaps there was some thinking that that was illustrated by what happened in the interview. Suffice to say, in the politically charged climate in which we were operating, it soon became a bit of a political football, with some suggestion that CTV, you know, had conspired with the Conservatives to set up Stephane Dion et cetera and so on, and you know it was subject to broadcast standards complaints, broadcast standard council complaints, and CTV was chastised for the decision and there were questions about the question. The whole thing is really almost too long to get into here.

Speaker 1 19:24

No, no, exactly, but that is what happened. Yeah.

Speaker 3 19:27

As to why it happened. As I say, I think it happened because there was an unfortunate confluence of events which led to a lot of misunderstandings, and I think in the end, there was a decision made at the top level of CTV, journalistically to broadcast the material and we were left on the local and regional level to explain it.

Speaker 2 19:50

And who knows if somebody from that level of executive level really wanted to have some sort of influence.

Speaker 1 19:58

I know. I know, Maybe we don't think.

Speaker 3 20:01

I know Bob Hurst well and I don't think so.

Speaker 3 20:04

I do think that Bob honestly felt that during an election campaign that a media organization ought not to be seen cleaning up an interview for a man who wanted to be prime minister. And let me also add this I've been taken on by other journalists about this. I had a longstanding policy of not liking to edit interviews journalists about this. I had a long-standing policy of not liking to edit interviews. So when I was when I was told by some in journalism that restarts are commonplace, my response was well, they might be commonplace in journalism generally, but they haven't been commonplace with my interviews right that's.

Speaker 3 20:37

That's cool. I would think in the probably five or six thousand interviews I did, we might have, we might have edited a dozen, usually for reasons of time or a technical problem.

Speaker 2 20:49

We don't really edit on this show. We give our guests an opportunity if they want something removed, and usually that's more on our end. So if I start cursing or going, on a swearing time.

Speaker 1 21:01

We're not news though. Yeah well, that's right. By the way, there's nothing wrong with editing.

Speaker 3 21:06

And good journalism can be and should be edited.

Speaker 2 21:09

We edit our ums and ahs and sometimes we stumble just to say a full sentence.

Speaker 1 21:14

You don't have the same speech.

Speaker 3 21:16

You should hear the stuff they just cut out. When we started doing long-form interviews on CTV News. Almost 25 years ago we decided we didn't want them to be edited. We wanted to go in a longer form and let the audience see what actually transpired. That's cool and I still think that is a good thing to do.

Speaker 2 21:38

That's probably what brought the realism to your interviews. I mean they were fairly grounded, they were really fun to watch.

Media Bias and Civility in Journalism

Speaker 3 21:44

Well, here's the thing it puts more pressure on the interviewer as well, when you know you can't clean up your own mess. Oh that's true too, there were times when I asked a question and wished I could have cleaned it up, but we didn't. Yeah, yeah, it was embarrassing to ask a dumb question sometimes too, If you ask a question where you're, some of them are going to be dumb.

Speaker 1 22:09

We're going to ask you a lot of dumb questions today. Well, you have. Well, there's four or five.

Speaker 3 22:12

You cut out there earlier. But you know what I can't believe? We've been here for four hours. It's hard to believe.

Speaker 1 22:15

I know it's been long, I know it's the evening point, but going back actually to that Dion and like the news thing, because in your book you actually talk about being like non-biased. Now we everyone have their own personal bias. Oh, yeah for sure. How do you tackle that like being non-biased in the news while still having your own bias?

Speaker 3 22:37

Well, you know that is a great question. The truth is, it is the job of journalists in journalism to set aside whatever their biases may be their predetermined ideas are, and enter into a somewhat dispassionate exercise about collecting information and opinions. It's a highly imperfect setup and no intelligent person comes to anything without certain pre-determined ideas. So I think it's a goal. You try to set aside your opinions at the door when you walk in, ask questions At least, I always tried to ask questions that I thought were probably what the listeners or the viewers might be wanting to know, or what should be asked in the public interest. But the point is, the entire process is editorial in the sense that you're deciding what to ask and what not to ask, and that itself is a somewhat biased proposition Right, of course.

Speaker 1 23:34

Did you ever go into an interview just going like I'm nailing this guy's ass to the wall?

Speaker 3 23:37

No, I never did although. I had people accuse me of it, and Dion was a good example.

Speaker 2 23:43

There were those who believed and probably still do believe that the whole idea was to go in and take this man down, not true, there are some times where you just might not like a human being.

Speaker 3 23:51

right, Like you know, does it get difficult, well, but again, whether you like or don't like the person you're interviewing is kind of irrelevant, right? Obviously, it probably does form some part of your approach to an interview or a situation, but I think we strive to be somewhat detached or somewhat balanced. To me, journalism is about being, first of all, be accurate, be fair and be balanced to the best of your ability.

Speaker 1 24:39

But even the most balanced people occasionally fall off the tightrope 100% and you can not answer this if you want. But I'm curious. Just peeked in my brain here what was probably the most frustrating interview you've ever had to do.

Speaker 3 24:54

Well, I say in the book that I stopped looking at interviews in that way. You know the most this or the worst that or the best this or that. I mean the Dion interview ended up being extremely frustrating because I was asking the same question repeatedly, because I wanted Mr Dion to answer that question. I didn't want to change the question to get an answer, and I was later criticized for asking a question that was grammatically imperfect.

Speaker 3 25:18

And you know what it probably was according to the rules of grammar grammatically imperfect and you know what it probably was according to the rules of grammar, but you know, if you, if you, if you parse any question with with a enough precision, you'll find something wrong with it. So no, that was. That was frustrating. I'll tell you the interviews that are very frustrating. Now that I look back on it, and many of my interviews most of them were live or live to take, but many were live there's nothing more frustrating than when you're dealing with a really competent interview subject, someone who's bright and fully in command of their subject, who knows that by obfuscating and offering a long preamble, that you'll get into your questions.

Speaker 3 25:54

And we've got a couple of people and I happen to have great respect for both of these people, but I'll mention the Honorable. Scott Bryson was very adept at that. The Honorable. Dominic LeBlanc was very adept at that, because they know if you've got six minutes and they can take three minutes to offer the niceties and do the first answer, that's the self-editing reality.

Speaker 2 26:11

It's a politician thing. No, it's not.

Speaker 1 26:15

With a previous company they used to work for. I went through media training because I was the media go-to person for nova scotia.

Speaker 2 26:21

I asked you a question. You tell me about driving around the entire block to the question nine times. You never.

Speaker 1 26:25

When I went to, when I come back from media training in toronto and they talked to me about this stuff, about here's how you answer questions. When people are asking. It's like talk as long as you can stick to your points, get in fewer questions and when any, and if they ever say anything at the end and say like hey, do you have anything else to add Always answer it, and always answer it with something positive. It's not just politicians, it's businesses.

Speaker 3 26:46

I think it was Ronald Reagan who said about Thomas P. Tip O'Neill, the longtime Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, said if you ask Tip the time, he'd tell you how to make a watch. It's kind of like that. By the way, if Dom or Scott happen to hear what I'm saying, I'm not really criticizing them. I understand exactly why they did it and they're very good at it. They're two very bright guys. Dominic LeBlanc is still probably one of the most powerful men in Canada, even though most people don't know it, but he's very good at managing the media menu and that's one of the reasons he's so successful. Fair enough, probably never get another interview with him.

Speaker 2 27:24

I hope you do. No, I know I would, I bet you would. I think people respect their interview opponents, especially if I mean you were never going out to do what I would call. There is a term out there called gaunt journalism, for sure, and I find that is I don't like that.

Speaker 3 27:44

To be honest, though, don't you think a lot of that, like? Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder? Right, if I'm interviewing someone and you happen to like them to speak of science, let's speak of your bias. Yeah, if I'm interviewing somebody and you like them and I'm being really tough on them, you think I'm out to get them.

Speaker 2 27:59

Yeah, that's true, that's true, but at the same time, there is times too, there are journalist styles where this is not your style, and I've seen it Like. You ask an expert on column A about column B that a gentleman might have or a woman might have absolutely no idea about that circumstance, right, and they're using it to prove their own point or their own agenda for their own documentary, say Right. And that certainly's what makes this now too.

Speaker 3 28:25

Yeah, and, incidentally, we're seeing more and more interviews that are born of formats that are about opinions. Yeah, and the conflation of reporting with editorializing is of grave concern to me, and we're seeing a lot more of it, particularly in the United States, but increasingly in this country and in Europe as well, where the reporter seamlessly flows from reporting facts into expressing opinions. And I say enough of it, stop it. There's room and there's need for opinions, but they have to be separated, clearly delineated, from the fact-based reporting, and it's the conflation of the two that is really ticking off a lot of people and, I think, bringing journalism into, if not disrepute, at least into some level of suspicion.

Speaker 2 29:13

And we don't need that. I think political divide sometimes hurts good interview questions as well, because it comes with a bit of a defensive stance, particularly if media companies have a bias.

Speaker 3 29:23

Well, and do corporations have a bias? Yes, well, the answer to that is they're corporations, aren't they?

Speaker 2 29:28

So their bias is to make them money Right, and I'm not going to sit here and apologize for that. Let me tell you this I've worked for some very large corporations in this country and I've never once been told by anybody who has a corporate role what to do editorially, and I underscore never. Yeah, yeah, and I only did this for 45 years I worked for local and I worked for regional and that's very fair and I'm underscoring never yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 29:54

Yeah, that's very fair. You know, I honestly I I don't know, maybe, maybe this is my bias, but I kind of feel like canadian media is a lot better than it is in the US. I feel it's less bought, but maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 30:05

I hope that's true, but I also think that when we get on a high horse, we're looking to get knocked off.

Speaker 1 30:10

No, that's fair. I mean, I'm not saying I think it's better, Matt, and.

Speaker 2 30:13

I don't want to be the pessimist here at the party, but I think it's getting worse. I think it's getting more divided. I mean, you and I had a conversation today on Spring Garden Road with a person that we just bumped into. That's right. That told us.

Speaker 1 30:25

Exactly what they, you know they loved.

Speaker 2 30:26

They loved a particular politician, a particular politician and they thought the politician we had now was trash. And yeah, the reasoning was very aggressive.

Speaker 3 30:34

Yes, that's true.

Speaker 2 30:35

And we kind of talked back to them and said you know, we like the person that's here now. We don't like all their decisions, we don't hate the person.

Speaker 1 30:44

We may not like all their decisions, and the other guy on the other end, like you know, there's not much of this.

Speaker 3 30:48

You know, mike and Matt, you've just defined civility, something that is disappearing. It's disappearing not only in media, but in almost all of our social discourse, and that's the problem.

Speaker 2 30:57

I mean, the three of us ought to be able to sit here and disagree and do so in an agreeable fashion and like each other, or at least respect each other at the end of it.

Speaker 3 31:05

I didn't make up the idea of disagreeing without being disagreeable, but that is what I'm talking about the civil exchange of ideas in which people who disagree respect each other enough to say, okay, let's have a pint. In a short amount of time of doing this podcast. We've been labeled as both conservative and liberal. Well, I could identify with that. I've been accused or celebrated for being all of the above and none of the above, and it's just because it's like I like that issue and I like this about your party, but I don't like that about your party.

Speaker 3 31:33

I'll tell you something funny. Sure, we went through a number of years when Mr Harper was prime minister, when CTV was being described as conservative television, that's right. And I also worked for CTV long enough to remember when Crate Channel was in power, when people said CTV was Crate Channel television.

Speaker 2 31:49

So you know.

Speaker 3 31:52

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, and so does bias.

Speaker 1 31:55

But I think that is what I mean when I'm saying why Canada is a little bit less. It's because you're saying you were never ordered to say or do anything. Um, do, do, as you said corporations, businesses. They are going to do things and they're going to act in a way that's beneficial to them, um, and their shareholders, and their shareholders, of course. Now, that being said, though, so like, we all have our bias, but I mean, there's just too much out there about, like, what happens in the US and their media. But you know the guy, rupert Murdoch, coming down and saying do this.

Speaker 3 32:29

Well, there's no doubt about that. Do you have any doubt that Elon Musk is dictating content on X? 100%. Why do I see him all the time on the platform?

Speaker 2 32:38

I see him every time I turn on X't. I don't follow, I can't unfollow he mandatory followers, one billion followers, exactly yeah but yeah so the publisher has a certain right to have her or his opinion absolutely reflected. We have a belief on this show that you know, uh, you know, be kind, listen to each other. Uh, try not to put each other down and try to work together to find a common solution or a common ground.

Speaker 1 33:06

That's the philosophy of this show. It's breaking the proverbial liquid bread.

Speaker 2 33:10

Yeah, and we try to push in our narrative.

Speaker 3 33:13

And start by the way is, pretty well, liquid bread.

Speaker 2 33:15

It is liquid bread.

Speaker 1 33:16

It's a good lunch.

Speaker 2 33:17

Yeah. This is the best place for I don't know. Guinness tastes better at the Old Triangle.

Speaker 3 33:21

They really do, and so Guin has our logo on it. Guinness tastes better in Ireland. Have you been to Ireland? No, I haven't.

Speaker 2 33:27

I spent a month in Ireland, did you?

Speaker 1 33:28

Yeah, and in 2008, ancestry's from there. So in 2008, I took some time off and I said we have good family friends over there. And they said we have good family friends over there. And they said I got a trailer. You can stay in there for as long as you want, Just fly over, it's yours. And I went over there for the whole month of May in 2008. Nice, drank Guinness every day.

Speaker 3 33:51

It tastes better over there.

Speaker 1 33:52

It does taste better over there.

Speaker 3 33:53

No doubt about it. I met a guy when we were over in June and I ran into a fellow in a pub and he said when you get to Belfast, go to Biddle's. It's the best pint of Guinness you've ever had. And of course I've heard this about virtually every bar in Ireland, but Biddle's in Belfast may be the best pint of.

Speaker 1 34:10

Guinness I've ever had.

Speaker 3 34:16

I spent a lot of time in Belfast and darned if I know why. But I said to Heather we're the amazing Crescent God rest his soul. But it was particularly good.

Speaker 1 34:25

Huh, I mean, I don't know, I'd have to, you know, go back and really truly experiment again, but I can tell you.

Speaker 2 34:33

We've got to get the show over there for a few episodes. Yeah, I'd love to do that. That's what we should try to do this year.

Speaker 3 34:37

If you want to do afternoon pints.

Speaker 2 34:39

Yeah.

Speaker 3 34:40

Ireland's the place. And here's the great thing, you wouldn't have to line up any guests.

Speaker 2 34:43

No, we just took somebody at that table over there. That was always a goal of ours, timmy, over at the bar Timmy Donovan, then Get him to come over. That would be great. Yeah, that was a goal of ours early on.

Speaker 1 34:58

It was like let's just get somebody sitting at the bar that we don't it. In the afternoon it was empty, except for this one guy who would sit there and he would sit there and he'd watch us do our show right.

Speaker 1 35:06

Every single time we were like, hey, want to do an episode, just sit and chat with us, we'll find out who you are. And he's like nah, we're like all right. Well, whatever, we tried, yeah. But you know what, though? It's true, though, over in ireland I was like I mean, I was 23 when I went there not even 23 yet and uh, I had so many great chats with people.

Speaker 3 35:21

Yeah, the art of conversation, particularly in the Irish pubs, is extremely well practiced.

Speaker 2 35:27

I want to get there.

Speaker 3 35:29

And you're never a stranger in a pub in Ireland.

Speaker 1 35:33

Do you go over often, Steve?

Speaker 3 35:34

I've been to Ireland many times.

Speaker 1 35:39

Matt said you were part of the Charitable Irish Society.

Speaker 3 35:42

Well, I've been a member and I've done speeches for the Charitable Irish. The Charitable Irish is one of the oldest organizations of its kind. It's like 1700 or something like that and it still does a lot of good work, and Eric Greiner, who's the GM of the Old Triangle, is the president.

Speaker 1 35:54

Yes, that's right, and Sharon Flanagan is the vice president. Brian's a board member or something as well?

Speaker 3 36:00

Yeah, and Brian of course is the Honorary Consul of Ireland. Yes, brian Daugherty has done probably more than well he would argue this but he's probably done more to elevate the Irish presence in Halifax than anybody, since Dennis Ryan and Dennis did a lot in the early days. I had Dennis on the radio when I was doing the radio show a few weeks ago. Oh, doherty are the two Irish people who've probably done more than anybody I can think of to elevate the Irishness of Halifax.

Speaker 2 36:28

He was an awesome episode last year.

Speaker 3 36:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 36:30

That was a good time. Listen to that one, guys, if you get a chance to go back.

Speaker 3 36:34

We had Brian on, brian on I should include Joe McInnes too, up at Dirty Nellie's, because Joe runs a great place up there.

Speaker 1 36:40

He does run a great place, very nice guy.

Speaker 3 36:41

And I shouldn't say that when I'm sitting in Doherty's place, but I know that they're also friendly rivals. There you go.

Speaker 1 36:47

Well, on St Patrick's Day, neither one of their places have a place to sit. It's a standing room only. They'll probably do for you, fellas.

Speaker 2 36:54

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 36:59

That's nice. Maybe you know what I it live for the whole day.

Speaker 2 37:01

Live for the whole day.

Speaker 3 37:02

Wouldn't that be fun. Just sit in the corner and let everybody come by. You'd have to call that the 5 am. Hi, mr, why are you up here?

Speaker 2 37:08

We'll throw it up, see we could throw it up on YouTube, dude, and just have a camera.

Speaker 3 37:16

And just whoever wanted to come over and say, hi, you'd be editing that, it'd be. Oh yeah, speakers.

Speaker 1 37:20

Corner. You know what that came up? I watched a little clip on this just last week and it was this old, old clip of Speakers Corner with Mike Myers, before he was famous. Yeah, I saw that Wasn't that cool.

Speaker 3 37:32

That was an amazing idea Speakers City TV invented that. Moses Neimer invented the idea that you could literally walk up to a camera. I think he had to put in a loonie or something at the time and Looney or something at the time and it activated the camera and you could say whatever you want.

Speaker 1 37:47

There was an alarming amount of that content that was created by people who may have had more than a pint yeah, even like Barenaked Ladies before they were famous went and sang a song. It was what a cool concept.

Speaker 3 37:57

They should bring it back, but everybody's got a speaker's corner now. It's called an iPhone. They just did something where they had a portal set up between Madison.

Speaker 2 38:07

Square and somewhere over in the UK I can't remember, but they shut it down within 24 hours because it was just getting too cruel.

Speaker 1 38:13

Oh yeah, I don't remember, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Where was the?

Speaker 2 38:16

portal from. It was from New York to. It was London to New York. London to London Didn't last very long, no it didn't.

Speaker 1 38:25

Anyway, that's enough rambling, I guess.

Speaker 3 38:27

Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 38:28

Are we rambling, I guess, yeah, yeah, back to. I mean, another organization, gia, I need to talk about. That's what happens when you have punks.

Speaker 2 38:36

Another thing, Steve Murphy, top of my mind, I think of Christmas Daddies and you've been.

Speaker 1 38:41

Isn't that a great thing? Yeah, it's the best.

Speaker 2 38:43

A really amazing thing to be affiliated with man Like holy smokes.

Speaker 3 38:47

Yeah, and it's such. Well, I was going to say it's such a maritime thing and it is, but it's such a Halifax thing.

Speaker 1 38:52

Yes.

Speaker 3 38:53

And I say that because it started in a pub. Do you guys know that it started in the old Derby pub?

Speaker 1 38:58

I did not know that On.

Speaker 3 38:59

Goddison Street in 1964. And it got started because a couple of guys from the radio and television station, Jim Hill Sr and Jack Dalton, were out to have lunch, which involved afternoon pints or quarts, and there was a child who came in panhandling for money and the child kept being thrown out of the pub. Wow. So when they got back to the station they said to Finley McDonald, who became Senator Finley McDonald that there ought to be some kind of a television show to raise money for needy kids at Christmas and they did one.

Speaker 2 39:33

If the Avenue Pike can help out this year 2025, where this episode's airing, we're in. Yeah, let us know Let us know what we could do, we'll show up anywhere.

Speaker 3 39:41

Well know what we could do, we'll show up anywhere, you can give anytime, and the money is administered by the Salvation Army. And it's not just toys. People think kids need more than toys and the. Salvation Army is also delivering food, and I don't know that it's always grocery baskets. It may be gift cards and so on, but there's a food component to it as well and they give every dime they can back.

Speaker 2 39:59

They're a pretty awesome organization, they're such a scrupulous organization.

Community Fundraising and Inclusive Journalism

Speaker 3 40:03

Here's a quick story. I don't know that I've ever got to tell this. I think it's about 20 years ago. We got involved with the Salvation Army as the agency to deliver Christmas Daddy's funds. Maybe a little bit longer ago than that, but the person who was most instrumental in building that relationship was a man named Brian Petal, who at that time was the commander of the Salvation Army for Nova Scotia. He and his wife, rosalie Newfoundlander lovely people. Brian went on to become the general of the Salvation Army for the world Wow, he was the leader of the Salvation Army on the earth and he remained a dedicated Christmas Daddies supporter. I had a note from Brian since the last Christmas Daddies. He's now retired, but that tells you something about the Salvation Army that the global head of the Salvation Army retained an abiding interest in Christmas Daddies. Wow.

Speaker 1 40:56

You know what that's?

Speaker 3 40:57

an amazing thing.

Speaker 2 40:59

That is amazing, it's another idea for 2025. We've got to get into the Christmas Daddies. You know what, Actually?

Speaker 1 41:05

I'm actually really happy we had this chat with Steve. Let's go back to basics. So it started in a pub. So last year 2024, we actually in May we held a fundraiser at a brewery, at a pub.

Speaker 1 41:18

Oh yeah, yeah, great Roads for a gentleman, one of our guests. He's an indigenous hip-hop artist. He has many health issues that are terminal and he had kind of a thing that he wanted to do where he wanted to go and record with Drake's producer in Toronto. He can't fly because of his medical issues and all this stuff, so it was going to take them a while. They couldn't drive for a long time anyway, so it was a long trip. So we actually held a fundraiser. This brewery, uh, great roads, uh agreed that we could make our own beer and we were hoping, like you know, to sell the beer office and kind of raise funds. Yeah, and they said that they would actually donate 10 of all food and all beer purchases that day during our event. That was huge and yeah, it was huge. And yeah, it was huge and it was actually. They told us afterwards it was standing room only.

Speaker 2 42:09

It was actually their biggest single sales day ever since they were open and you can watch on YouTube us making the beer. We made a little video.

Speaker 1 42:16

Yeah, we did a little video of us making the beer. We made a coffee brown, oh nice. So it turned out really really nicely.

Speaker 2 42:22

I'd be liking it 6.5. He gave it higher. I liked it, but I didn't love it right? You know I want a little more kick next time.

Speaker 3 42:28

Yeah, it was 4.2, right and this was a 4.0 beer.

Speaker 1 42:33

Yeah, so it was yeah.

Speaker 2 42:34

Wow, that's terrific, but it was great.

Speaker 1 42:36

But let's do that.

Speaker 3 42:37

Yeah, we up and got a beer this year, although it's changed in recent years. So much money has been raised for Christmas. Daddies in pubs you know the North End pub. Kay Bryan, the pie lady, used to raise money up there, danny Ladder and Jamie Ladder over at Big League's Beverage Room. Big League's Beverage Room there's a 1960s term for it, but the Big League's pub.

Speaker 3 42:59

they raised hundreds of thousands of dollars. Pubs that are now long gone. Right they really? I think they embraced Christmas Daddies because of where it started. Some people are uncomfortable with that. I'm not.

Speaker 2 43:13

No, I'm not either. No.

Speaker 3 43:14

Some people are uncomfortable with the name Christmas Daddies. I'm not. It's a very, very old, outdated name for a wonderful idea that's not outdated.

Speaker 1 43:21

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 43:29

And it's not just about christmas and it's not just about daddies and sure I, I hear people want to take take pokes at both parts of the name. I say leave it alone.

Speaker 1 43:33

Yeah, yeah, at the work. Yeah, exactly, no, I.

Speaker 3 43:34

Yeah, some things are perfectly fine to remain as they are, but well, they're not perfect, but well, the heritage is in the name and I used to say to jane kansas, because the late j Jane Kansas, who was a tremendous journalist and an advocate for all kinds of human rights God rest her soul she used to really, really criticize the name and I said to her, jane, if we can come up with a name, a new name, on which there could be a consensus, I think everybody would go with it.

Speaker 2 43:58

Can we change it to Stepdaddies, just for one year I'm a stepfather. That'd be kind of cool. You're kind of making my point, which is.

Speaker 3 44:07

You know, we don't maybe think it's a perfect name in the 21st century. So what would be? Anyway, it's not just for Christmas and it's not just daddies, obviously. It's done a tremendous. It's raised $38 million. And it's still a volunteer effort run by people who work in a television station.

Speaker 1 44:25

That's incredible.

Speaker 2 44:27

That's amazing, we had.

Speaker 1 44:28

Ian Robinson on here and, I believe, roxanne.

Speaker 3 44:31

Isn't he one of the best? Yeah, he's awesome, he is and one of the nicest I don't know.

Speaker 2 44:36

and Roxanne is the title of his episode is like maybe the nicest guy or nicest guy ever, or something like that. We didn't know what I've titled that episode. And here's the thing about ian, if I could talk, are we allowed to talk?

Speaker 3 44:48

listen, ian is not only a nice guy, he's a really sincere, authentic believer in what he does he loves the moose and now he's doing the lacrosse. Yeah, but he listened to him on the radio.

Speaker 1 44:58

He's an authentic guy yeah, he loves his work and it shows and he's a.

Speaker 3 45:03

He's a tremendous guy.

Speaker 1 45:04

Yeah, no, couldn't, couldn't, yeah, couldn't agree more. So kind of, I guess, talking about the you know inclusive and you know all that type of stuff, how do, when you're going about an interview, do you Kind of think about there was, like you know, inclusive terms like how do you be inclusive and still be curious at?

Speaker 2 45:25

the same time.

Speaker 1 45:26

I try to be accurate. That's a good answer. Okay, that's good.

Speaker 3 45:32

And I think accuracy is sort of by nature inclusive.

Speaker 1 45:35

I agree with that. People like to be called what they want to be called. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I'm with you. No problem with that whatsoever, and I don't yeah.

Speaker 3 45:43

I'm with you, no problem with that whatsoever. Yeah, and I don't know why people want to make a problem out of it.

Speaker 2 45:48

Really, so what are your plans? I think you're doing some public speaking. Is that right? Are you looking into getting into public speaking events?

Speaker 3 45:56

I'm doing a certain amount of that already, and by that I mean I'm speaking to groups and organizations and podcasters.

Speaker 2 46:03

Losers. He just said losers. I'm doing those guys later. No, I'm doing some of that.

Discussion on Phobias and Personal Preferences

Speaker 3 46:09

I'm still doing a lot of MC work, okay, philanthropic and charity things Cool. Still doing Murphy's Logic, which is an editorial I do for CTV every other week. Just did about 10 weeks hosting Open Line Radio on Mondays on News 95.7. Nice, it was fun. And I'm doing a little bit of private work, you know, on a sort of consulting basis, kind of the backstage stuff. But I'm busier than ever, really just not working on somebody else's schedule anymore which is okay.

Speaker 1 46:40

Yeah, yeah, I think I would agree with that. Like I don't know if I will ever really fully retire, I think I would just, you know, I say I've rewired yeah, not retired or repurposed as another way. Well, we had mike savage on the same like savage and saying now he couldn't tell us obviously what was coming, yeah, when we had him on, but he was top secret about it, but now I think it had to be yeah, but uh no.

Speaker 3 47:03

I. I mean Mike and I are around the same age and obviously Mike still has a lot to offer. I actually, you know the fair-minded can debate whether we need to have a lieutenant governor and whether the royals need to form part of our constitutional democracy anymore.

Speaker 1 47:17

However, I want to talk about that because we're both wearing our collada rings.

Speaker 3 47:21

Well, no, but here's the whole point, until we change the system and I don't know that we can change it we should respect it and work within it. Fair enough If we're going to have a lieutenant governor in this province. I think Mike Savage will be a good lieutenant governor.

Speaker 2 47:34

I agree with that. I truthfully do.

Speaker 3 47:35

And I know Mike and Darlene well. In fact, I should put it out there that I maintained no sort of strong friendships with any elected officials while I was in the media, but I never denied the friends I had before they became politicians. Fair enough, I've known Mike for a long time.

Speaker 2 47:51

Steve, I'm going to get a picture of you.

Speaker 3 47:52

I know this is weird, but you've got that AP glass with the print on the top and I said, geez, I don't know if I'm going to get it. I don't want to spill any.

Speaker 2 47:58

No, that's perfect.

Speaker 3 48:05

Just like, just like that, but I think Mike and Darlene will be exceptional vice regal people, because I think they are genuinely community involved people, and I think Mike is going to find a way in fact I'm certain he's going to find a way to do something unique with that office. And I think, as I say, if we're going to maintain the trappings of the monarchy and the royal system, make sure we have some really good community-involved people in those roles and I think we're going to do that.

Speaker 1 48:28

I couldn't agree more with that. I will happily label myself anti-monarchist.

Speaker 3 48:35

See, I wouldn't go that far. I think the time is probably right for a Canadian head of state. Agreed, but until we can find a way to execute that constitutionally, we have the head of state, we have.

Speaker 2 48:47

Yeah, that's true. And that person happens to be the king of England, Trump again for a second there Head of state there, right? Oh yeah, that's scary. That's a whole other subject.

Speaker 3 48:55

But no, at the moment it happens to be the king of England who is also designated to be the king of Canada. Thank you, and again, the fair mind can debate whether Canada needs a king. Yes, and I would probably argue we could do without a king but we do need a head of state. No, I agree with that. So until we can find another way, a different way, respect what we have and expect the best from the people we've got.

Speaker 1 49:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2 49:18

Yeah, I agree with that. Expert answers. Yeah, Steve. Expert answers.

Speaker 1 49:22

Expert answers from the expert interviewer. Are we allowed?

Speaker 3 49:25

to drink water here too? Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 49:27

I've been mixing it up too.

Speaker 3 49:29

It looked like water?

Speaker 1 49:30

I'm not sure. Straight vodka for you, okay.

Speaker 2 49:34

All right.

Speaker 1 49:34

So we're going to play our little 10 questions game.

Speaker 2 49:36

This is kind of a silly part of the show, silly and fun. You guys aren't old enough to remember. Reach for the top. Reach for the top.

Speaker 3 49:43

No, fill us in okay, so high school, high school sent in teams to answer general interest questions in halifax. It was moderated by jerry fogarty, who was a tremendous broadcaster. Yeah, and les studley was the host of the show, and the short questions were called the short snappers.

Speaker 2 49:57

The short snappers, well, these don't have to be short. They don't have to be short, so these could be long and introspective, I don't care if you take two hours to answer one of these or they could be short, so these are long and boring. When we had Houston on the show here, what we did with him is we said answer the question or take a sip. If you didn't feel like answering the question, you could have a sip of your beer.

Speaker 3 50:17

You can get a pass right. Did the premier take some sips?

Speaker 2 50:20

He took two On poutines or donairs. These are really silly questions. Now which one's your favorite right? You think that's silly? That's a pretty silly question. I guess it's maybe controversial.

Speaker 3 50:31

What's silly? Poutine or donair? That's not a silly question. No, he took a sip. What's your favorite? So my mother? No, no true story. My mother's people were Acadian, so what we called poutine growing up is not like the poutine that you get today.

Speaker 2 50:47

So describe that for a second for people that don't know.

Speaker 3 50:50

It's more like almost like a pie. The crust can be a little dry. It's certainly not covered in gravy and curds. I can tell you that. So here's the thing If I'm going to pick between poutine as we now now have it as fast food and doner, I'm going with doner.

Speaker 2 51:08

Okay. Why do you say that?

Speaker 3 51:10

Well, because I think. Well, neither is a health food, no, no but, I, think doner is an authentic Halifax thing.

Speaker 3 51:17

I think that obviously most of us have never had one before 11 o'clock at night. No, I think it's an authentic Halifax thing and I think the whole idea of the gravy and the curds I feel my arteries clogging. Now I know they're clogging with the donair too. My doc's probably listening, saying get him on a diet. I think I'd go with the donair, but, by the way, I'd be very picky about my donairs. A lot of what I see being offered up as a donair, I'm thinking donair-ish.

Speaker 1 51:48

It's interesting, my wife's from Quebec, so I like a traditional Quebec poutine. Yeah, me too. The cheese curds, the real good.

Speaker 3 51:58

The poutine that we would have had in Acadia and New Brunswick was not Le Membre Chausse.

Speaker 1 52:01

It was different, yeah, that being said yeah, yeah, so it's yeah, but I mean. That being said, though, I'm a sucker for a Donair. I had Donair pizza two nights ago.

Speaker 3 52:10

But have you ever had any of these things that they call Donairs in other parts of Canada?

Speaker 1 52:16

No, they're not even close. They're not even close. They're Donairs, they're not.

Speaker 2 52:20

Yeah All right, okay, so here we go. We're going to start off with this one Very easy question. Maybe easy question what? Is one of your favorite beverages. Oh, stout, there you go, murphy's, murphy's, murphy's Stout. Right on, go ahead.

Speaker 1 52:34

Matt, all right. So if you could only save one national newspaper for your country, would you pick the National Post, the Globe and Mail, or another one, globe and Mail?

Speaker 2 52:47

Globe and Mail, all right. Why do you think humans? Are drawn to having power or influence over others Told you we like going a little round. Yeah we're all around.

Speaker 3 53:03

Would you repeat the question? Certainly, we've gone from donators to the essence of life.

Speaker 1 53:08

Yes, exactly. Okay, that's how we do.

Speaker 2 53:12

Why do you think humans are drawn to having power or an influence over others?

Speaker 3 53:16

I assume it's genetic. It's probably primitive. I don't know, why do dogs want to be in packs? I don't know, why do we have any personalities? I guess it's in the DNA. Yeah, cool.

Speaker 2 53:29

Quick answer yeah, all right your turn.

Speaker 1 53:32

Do you have any phobias? I hate rats.

Speaker 3 53:35

Rats Okay, matt's a rat, I don't know, I'm afraid of them so much as I really just don't like them. Right, that's fair.

Speaker 1 53:47

I don't think anyone likes rats.

Speaker 3 53:48

I think the word phobic and phobia they're misused a lot. A lot of what is described as phobia isn't so much fear as dislike. But I can't stand rats and I even know why. It's because in grade eight my English, my English teacher, peter Armstrong Gilchrist, gave me George Orwell's 1984 to read, and I don't know if you can remember 1984. And the role of the rats in that story. But enough said, I can't even safely think about it. I really detest them.

Speaker 2 54:14

Do you have a fear, mike Fear?

Speaker 3 54:20

Yeah, I have an irrational fear of like hornets and wasps, and I've been stung many times.

Speaker 2 54:26

Not irrational, though, yeah, I guess it's a rational fear, but I get way too nervous when I see one. But I mean, and knowing that I've been stung and it doesn't hurt that bad and I can get through. I haven't had things that hurt more than that happen, uh. But yeah, every time I see one I'm like you know what? I mean I, I'm on my needles.

Speaker 1 54:40

Yeah and uh. I've had that since I was five years old. For as long as I can remember, four or five years old, um, you're afraid of them truly afraid of them.

Speaker 1 54:48

I get them and I mean like you have to get them, um, but uh, it's the weirdest thing, like I, I've, I've thrown up, I've gone into convulsions, that's phobic, true phobia, like honestly like when I had to go my covid shot, I had to sit in my car for 20 minutes after I left because I had to just sit and calm down, because I can't drive.

Speaker 2 55:10

And this is after it's already done. That's phobic. Yeah, no, I don't know if it's phobic, maybe it's more of a hate, because I took my mother out for a birthday, I remember, and there were all these hornets around. I just couldn't be outside. I was like we've got to go endorse one. Take her in. Yeah, all right, next one. Oh, so I think. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. This is what I thought I read. You've interviewed over 5,000 people. Is that correct, or is it closer to another number? Oh well, it would be at least. Yeah, nobody, really knows.

Speaker 3 55:51

Yeah, the math would have it be well over 5,000.

Speaker 2 55:53

Okay, if you could interview one more, just one more person, dead or alive, anyone you wanted, who would you choose? Could?

Speaker 3 55:55

be anybody, it could be Gandhi. He'd be a good one.

Speaker 2 55:57

Yeah.

Speaker 3 56:01

One person dead or alive? Hmm.

Speaker 2 56:06

Yeah, that's tough Pick one that pops into mind.

Speaker 3 56:10

Well, but so many are popping into mind right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always thought and I'm going to throw out a couple of names before maybe reaching a conclusion In her lifetime I thought the Queen would be fabulous to interview, because nobody did. Yeah, I mean, the Queen didn't do interviews. Popes don't do interviews, although this Pope does. He's done some interviews.

Speaker 1 56:27

Yeah, he's pretty down to earth.

Speaker 3 56:29

Selfishly. I'd love to interview Churchill, winston Churchill, oh cool.

Speaker 1 56:38

It's so funny. We were actually walking down Spring Garden Road today and I saw the Churchill statue and I just kind of jokingly said, hey, we should get Churchill on the podcast.

Speaker 3 56:46

I'm surprised, but pleased that nobody's taken that statue down, because he's such a wholly imperfect person. You know, churchill wrote more words than Shakespeare and Dickens combined.

Speaker 2 56:55

Really, I didn't know that. Holy smokes Wow.

Speaker 3 56:59

I just think he was such a consequential person and again, I don't venerate at the altar of Churchill, if you will, because he was so imperfect. There was much he did that was not entirely commendable and some of it was pretty despicable. However, I think he was one of the towering figures of the 20th century and I think he'd be fascinating. You'd have no trouble getting him to have a pint. You'd have a problem getting him to stop.

Speaker 2 57:22

He'd have no trouble getting him to have a pint. He'd have a problem getting him to stop. He'd probably be a kind of guy to come on the show. Oh, I think so. I think he'd say, oh, I'd go have a beer. He wouldn't remember it afterward, but he probably would have done it.

Speaker 3 57:32

As you know, he prosecuted the Second World War, intoxicated, for virtually all of it.

Speaker 2 57:35

Yeah, yes, the thing is like I've watched so many versions of Netflix.

Speaker 3 57:40

Now have you watched the Netflix docu-series.

Speaker 2 57:43

That's what I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 3 57:44

It's a four-parter, it's just out.

Speaker 2 57:46

Is that the one, or is that brand new? It's recent. I haven't seen anything brand new. I saw where John Lithgow played Churchill and he did a remarkable job.

Speaker 3 57:53

I thought, yeah, yeah yeah, which is amazing because Lith said there about how he was hugely in the 20th century.

Philosophical Conversations on Life and Politics

Speaker 1 58:07

I mean World War II obviously impacted the world in such a big way, profoundly, but I think even still it's more than what people realize. When you go down we have plastic bags because we decided to change. They needed metal and things like that. Like plastic got used more because of it.

Speaker 3 58:27

I agree. And one other thing that I, and again, I've been reading about Churchill for most of my life One of the things that many people around here don't realize is that one of his intimates was a Maritimer, max Aiken, lord Beaverbrook, from New Bruns, brunswick, who is a guy, another guy who punched way above his weight, another man, you know, small in stature, huge in influence, can really control fleet street, the, the british press, but he and churchill were extremely close, okay, and that such a person from our corner of the world had such an outsized influence on an outsized person like Churchill, I think is underappreciated. Yeah wow.

Speaker 3 59:10

Very cool yeah, and I think they had a couple of pints as well.

Speaker 1 59:13

Alright, so question six here. So this one truly changes it up again. Do you think animals have souls?

Speaker 3 59:21

Tell me what a soul is and I'll answer the question. Great question. Oh, I think we have to simplify our choice.

Speaker 2 59:23

Tell me what a soul is and I'll answer the question. Great, oh, oh. I think we have to sip our drinks, yeah I gotta take a drink, I guess let me qualify.

Speaker 3 59:36

I live with an australian shepherd named ramsey and ah boy yeah he's a spirit man, there's no question. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 59:46

Well, st Thomas Aquinas would say that we are our souls attached to carbon bodies. Okay, and it's the soul that is the likeness of God. There you go. Wow, that's deep man.

Speaker 3 1:00:00

Yeah, that's St Thomas Aquinas. We're into Aquinas into a coin this year already.

Speaker 2 1:00:04

yeah yeah, this is the perfect follow-up question. That last question how do you handle awkward or unexpected moments during an interview? Just handle it, yeah, yeah, and like, what like? Do you have any? Like, just kind of, you stay calm, kind of well, you try to stay calm.

Speaker 3 1:00:24

I had a conversation with a few people yesterday. We were talking about, you know what, what's the key to life? And in a sort of a big picture sense I say it's the key to everything is preparation. But you know, when we live our lives we're preparing, basically just preparing for whatever comes next. But the key in an interview is to be prepared and to have a good understanding of who the person you're speaking with, is, what their prepared and to have a good understanding of who the person you're speaking with is, what their background is, to have a pretty good understanding of what their opinions are. And if you are well prepared, then you remain calm and just carry on Right.

Speaker 1 1:00:55

Stay calm and carry on, steer into the skid a little bit and just be like, well, that was awkward. Moving on.

Speaker 3 1:01:01

You know what I've done? That yeah.

Speaker 1 1:01:03

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:01:05

All right, it's my turn. I think it's my turn.

Speaker 2 1:01:06

Yeah. Cool, so name a place that you are most certain that you have visited and you never will again Place you visited for the last time.

Speaker 3 1:01:18

Yeah, because I don't want to go or because of whatever reason.

Speaker 2 1:01:29

Whatever reason, you know, maybe maybe you have no reason to go back there, or maybe you don't want to go back there. It's just kind of a philosophical, I don't know. It doesn't have to be that deep. Maybe you didn't like the food there. I think that's a fairly deep question.

Speaker 3 1:01:33

It could be a lot of deep implications there. A place that I won't go again? Hmm, does it have? Okay, I am never going to sit behind a horse again. How's that?

Speaker 2 1:01:47

sure, okay, one time when I was hosting live at five.

Speaker 3 1:01:50

I had to sit. I had to sit in a carriage behind a horse on a harness racing track and I realized in that moment, looking at the rear end of that horse, those legs were really scary and I'm never sitting behind a horse again. Now, that's not the kind of place you had in mind. That's a place, that's a place in my mind, and I don't ever About a phobia. I have a fear of the hindquarters of horses, that's fair.

Speaker 2 1:02:12

Their kicks can kill you. Kicks can kill you. It's a rational fear.

Speaker 3 1:02:18

Anyway, another place, I don't know. I've liked almost everywhere I've gone because I like going places yeah, yeah, you know what?

Speaker 1 1:02:25

okay, well, we can log up one question for me, one question that we asked the premier and, uh, he thought it was a tough one, but we'll, we'll do a little. Question b to this one is would you, uh, would you rather, are you a type of person who would like to go to the same place, like over and over again, a familiar place, or go somewhere new, both?

Speaker 3 1:02:44

I've been going to the same place in the dominican republic for 25 years. Okay, but I love going new places and anytime I go to a country I've been before, I always want to go to new places. But I want to do both. I like the comfort and the familiarity, yeah of returning, and I like the joy of exploration.

Speaker 1 1:03:02

You know what? You and I are really similar in that. What did the Premier say? He says he does like to explore, but he likes familiarity. He likes familiarity Because he and Carol lived in Bermuda for a long time they did yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:14

Here's a story that, just to toss it out there. I first knew Tim Huston when he proposed marriage to his wife because his wife's father was my editor. Oh wow, at ATV. Art Steves oh, there you go. I saw it at Christmas Daddy's. He's the only person who has worked on all 61 Christmas Daddy shows. Art Steves, the father-in-law of Ringer Tim Houston Wow, very cool. There is some trivia for the afternoon pint listener.

Speaker 1 1:03:37

Oh, there you go. Yeah well, we'll take that, that's a good one, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:03:41

Okay, number nine $1,000 a minute on Mint 100. Do I get $1,000? I'll buy you another pint if you want. Wow, okay, give me the $1,000 and I'll buy you a pint.

Speaker 2 1:03:55

All right, number nine. This is another great question. What is your Wi-Fi password? You don't want to answer. You can take a drink. How about the?

Speaker 3 1:04:03

truth.

Speaker 1 1:04:04

I don't know.

Speaker 2 1:04:05

I can't remember. Actually, I do know what it is because I had to change it yesterday. I had to change up my modem. Oh my gosh, that's a pain in the arse. Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 3 1:04:17

My Wi-Fi password is hard to remember.

Speaker 1 1:04:19

The best part is if it actually was hard to remember.

Speaker 2 1:04:23

That would be perfect.

Speaker 3 1:04:23

Yeah, really oh shh, we're not supposed to tell anybody?

Speaker 2 1:04:28

Question 10, our last question. So we had a last question. We asked everybody last year that we remembered to do these 10 questions with. We forgot a lot of the times, but it was, you know, last year. What was it last year? I forget now what was one thing you could do to make the world a better place. Everybody could do to make the world a better place.

Speaker 3 1:04:54

And almost everybody said be kind, which I thought was a thing. Yeah, well, yeah, I'm not going to go with something quite so um broad as be kind, because, yes, of course, be kind, treat others as you want to be treated. The golden rule, by the way, is is common to virtually every culture that has ever existed on earth, every religion, every philosophy. I think we need to go. I think we need to go beyond that now. I think we need to be civil, more civil, particularly to those and with those with whom we disagree yes, that's not being kind, no that's going further than that that's kind of like the jesus of nazareth teaching love thy enemy, it's not enough to love your neighbor.

Speaker 2 1:05:27

There's a lot of examples out there where some people, or if you're in a political party, maybe you help each other out. You don't have to always agree with everyone and everything. You can learn so much from people.

Speaker 1 1:05:42

I often say that political parties aren't sports teams. Yeah Right, but they are.

Speaker 3 1:05:47

They are sports teams. They're the life sports teams. Yeah Right, yeah, but they are. They are sports teams. They are sports teams If someone's a conservative, a liberal, an NDP. It's not like they're an Eagles fan, so you can still like them, it's interesting, though, because in this country, until fairly recently, the political parties were more like sports teams than they were like philosophies.

Speaker 2 1:06:04

Right.

Speaker 3 1:06:04

That happens to be very different right moment if you look nationally. The Liberal Party of Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada are very far apart on policy. And the NDP is somewhere in the middle, I think, trying to figure out where they are.

Speaker 2 1:06:19

They seem a little lost in identity to me at this moment.

Speaker 3 1:06:24

Really, they've been outmaneuvered by the Liberals, who've become way more progressive.

Speaker 2 1:06:28

I'd like to speak highly of Claudia Chender, who I hope comes on the show this year. I think she's fantastic. I think, she seems like a very brilliant woman.

Speaker 3 1:06:35

She's a very good political leader. I think she's very decent smart, I think Zach Churchill by the way to give a shout-out to a guy who just announced he's stepping away. Another decent human being who you know know caught in the crossfire of politics.

Speaker 1 1:06:47

You know, I, I, um, I was uh, like I, I, I like what tim is doing with this province right now. So I was happy to see the mandate that he received you and 52 of the people who voted that's right. Where were the?

Speaker 3 1:07:00

rest of you, by the way yeah 55. Who didn't vote?

Speaker 2 1:07:03

unbelievable. Yeah, that's crazy that many people didn't vote it is yeah, yeah, we we definitely got the get out and vote.

Speaker 1 1:07:09

We tried to champion that. That being said, I listened to Churchill's speech on election night and, honestly, one of the best times he has ever spoken, and I wish he carried that through the whole time he was in politics.

Speaker 3 1:07:24

May I share an observation that I've made following I don't know how many interviews with defeated people or people who've stepped away from political office. Quite often, the best interview they've ever done with me was the one they did after they lost or after they quit. It's because after you lose or after you quit, you don't have the burden on your shoulders anymore. You are truly unencumbered and you're able to say what you want.

Speaker 1 1:07:50

Do you feel that way now? Oh yeah 100%.

Speaker 3 1:07:54

I mean I've got opinions that I've been sitting on for 35 years. I mean yeah.

Speaker 2 1:07:57

All right, let's hear them. They're all coming out on their audio book that's being released later this year.

Speaker 3 1:08:02

Yeah, exactly no but one of the things I do when I do give speeches and presentations is I say ask me anything, and here's what I'll tell you about that. Just because you can ask me a question doesn't mean I have to give you an answer. But telling you I'm not going to give you an answer is an answer.

Speaker 1 1:08:18

Like if.

Speaker 3 1:08:19

I don't know or I won't tell you is an answer. I don't know is a fine answer People that's underrated.

Speaker 2 1:08:24

I love I don't know.

Speaker 3 1:08:25

That's my favorite answer it also has the virtue of usually, or often, being true yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 1:08:31

So, the new season three question.

Speaker 3 1:08:34

You're the first one getting this.

Speaker 1 1:08:34

You're the first one getting this.

Speaker 2 1:08:36

This is going to be the question that's going to carry on for the rest of the year.

Speaker 3 1:08:38

As our closer question oh okay, so I won't even be in the country when this happens? No, that's right.

Speaker 2 1:08:48

Yeah, so Matt go ahead, all right. So what was he said?

Life Advice and Artificial Intelligence

Speaker 1 1:08:52

good, no, I'm kidding, I know you can get it. We have one person in Russia who listens to us every week.

Speaker 2 1:09:00

Yeah, there you go, you get all around the world. Yeah, we got a Russian fan. 48 countries is where we're listening to in 48 countries.

Speaker 1 1:09:07

Yeah. So last question was what was one bit of advice that you've received in your life that you would like to share with others? Tell the truth. Tell the truth Like it Okay.

Speaker 3 1:09:18

Yeah, my father, who's a very, very wise guy, said to me if you tell the truth, you don't have to worry about who you're telling which lies to and he didn't mean it in a joking way, but he was more than half serious about it. If you basically call it straight, you don't have to keep changing your story.

Speaker 3 1:09:36

Yeah, that's, true so yeah, I think, tell the truth. Now, do you sometimes have to put a glove on the hard hand of truth? Yeah, you do, because that's a decent civil thing to do, fair enough. But basically, tell the truth, yeah, yeah it's a great answer, matt.

Speaker 2 1:09:53

What would you do that one? Yeah, since this is the season opener, you had a bit of advice, life advice that you'd love to share with others that you're receiving all right.

Speaker 1 1:10:01

Was that what we're doing? I wasn't expecting. Why not man?

Speaker 2 1:10:03

why not? We got a few more minutes here.

Speaker 1 1:10:05

Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, um, I would um, honestly, for me I guess I don't know I'm thinking because, like, I am in like a, I guess, a management role and I always tell people kind of the same thing, but it's a act like act, the role that you want to be and a little bit of that and also with us that goes along with it is, um, when, make it obvious to everyone else in the room, when, if it's something that you want to do, make it obvious to everyone in the room, that's great well, you're defining authenticity in a sense.

Speaker 3 1:10:39

There aren't you?

Speaker 2 1:10:39

yeah, my dad gave me a good one, uh, I think in the last year or so, right, so it's cool getting like ones later in life. That really sink in. I think I was really mad about something and he said, mike, if it doesn't matter in 20 years, don't worry about it now. I like that it was just kind of really cool when you get upset about those little things that drive you crazy. So it was great advice, Dad, if you're still listening, yeah thanks.

Speaker 1 1:11:09

One last thing, Since we have the expert here is there any advice that you can give us personally.

Speaker 3 1:11:19

No, I keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 2 1:11:21

Thanks, man, I think we will, 100% will.

Speaker 3 1:11:24

The people who are listening to this can't see it, but you guys are having fun with this, you take it seriously, but you don't take yourself seriously, right? So, yeah, I think it's a great concept and I got to tell you, the podcast world is so cluttered that finding the niche is hard. I think the afternoon pint's a pretty cool idea.

Speaker 2 1:11:44

Yeah, it's working so far, so we're going to keep it going. So we really appreciate that. I have to say hi from Heather in Colorado, who is a super fan of you. Okay, Hi.

Speaker 1 1:11:53

Heather, there you go, that's it.

Speaker 3 1:11:55

Yeah, Colorado.

Speaker 2 1:11:56

Yeah, there we go, and anything else.

Speaker 1 1:12:00

No, I think that's pretty much everything. I mean, yeah, it was the podcast stuff. I mean I guess there was one thing that we never got to. What was it? Just about technology and how you feel that. What technology is, how it's going to affect news, kind of moving forward news media whatever I mean, how has it affected it already?

Speaker 3 1:12:16

All the changes we've seen are due, in no small measure, to technology. The technology I'm most. It's not technology in the purest sense, but what I'm most concerned about now is artificial intelligence. Yeah, and I'm just in the purest sense, but what I'm most concerned about now is artificial intelligence. Yeah, and I'm just in the middle of in fact, I'm I'm almost in the back end now of of nexus by uval noah harari, and if you haven't read it, I suggest you do.

Speaker 3 1:12:40

Um, it's pretty frightening yeah sobering is a good word for it. It doesn't do any good to be frightened by it. What's?

Speaker 2 1:12:50

the gist of what they're trying to talk about in that book.

Speaker 3 1:12:52

Well, I mean he's talking about the evolution of all communication and where it goes, now that we are, for the first time in human history, not going to be necessary for communication.

Speaker 2 1:13:04

Right.

Speaker 3 1:13:05

Up until this point, all communication has involved humans. Artificial intelligence doesn't need us to communicate, it communicates with other intelligence.

Speaker 1 1:13:13

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:13:13

Artificial intelligence, and he's actually suggesting that artificial intelligence may be alien life.

Speaker 2 1:13:21

Could be sentient, yeah. Alien life, yeah. So yeah, no, really that's cool. I love that.

Speaker 3 1:13:26

I love reading about this stuff and the reason that I worry about that is because it's important to know what's true and what's not true, and it's important to know where information comes from. It's important to know the motive of the source, and I think that's going to become increasingly difficult, if not impossible, with artificial intelligence.

Speaker 2 1:13:46

Already this year. Do you know what happened this year with SEOs, or search engine optimization?

Speaker 3 1:13:51

Because I'm in the podcast world.

The Future of AI and Humanity

Speaker 2 1:13:52

I'm obsessed with trying to get our podcast seen and heard. I love all those sentences that are terms that I don't understand, so search engine optimization is really just showing up on top of a Google search right? So if you search afternoon point, I want you to see our podcast and not some dude in Dublin having a drink, right, okay, unless.

Speaker 3 1:14:11

I'm the dude in Dublin, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:14:14

But anyways, what's happened now is AI can now generate it can actually generate my entire episode description, so it will listen to this whole episode, it will actually write everything for me, and then I go in and I fine tune it Like, okay, that's not actually what happened. If, if the, if the ai reading into our episode or reading the transcript was inaccurate, I correct it and then I put it out. But anyways, what's happening now is all these ais promise to be the most search engine optimistic, like that. They'll all show up at the top of the Google charts. So then what effectively happens? With all of these AI voices speaking, nobody gets heard.

Speaker 3 1:14:55

Right. What happens when you're totally left out of that, though, and the AI just decides to do what it wants to do, irrespective of what?

Speaker 2 1:15:05

you think, I know, yeah, I mean it could happen and Harari tells a wonderful story.

Speaker 3 1:15:09

The book is I mean, it's a beautiful book, yeah, he's. He's a fabulous writer. He tells a story about how ai confronted a captcha and it was required to identify.

Speaker 2 1:15:21

I don't know all the bicycles in the picture and of course, the ai can't see the capt.

Speaker 3 1:15:27

So what it did was it pretended to be a visually impaired person and it asked another human.

Speaker 2 1:15:32

To get assistance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy so.

Speaker 3 1:15:35

AI is already devious. So what's that tell you? It's not only artificial intelligence, but it's devious in its behavior, so it's becoming more and more like us. Right Because we are devious yeah yeah, of course. Yeah, so where does that end? I don't know, but he postulates that we may lose control of it.

Speaker 2 1:15:58

So You're going to put my book out. Man, I've got a book all about.

Speaker 3 1:16:01

AI taking over the world that I wrote A fiction book. Did you really?

Speaker 2 1:16:05

Yeah, I wrote the first five chapters of it. I never. Then I stopped, so I should probably get back on it, maybe get ai to finish it for you but uh, but you know where I'm going with this.

Speaker 3 1:16:14

Yeah, this is potentially somewhat frightening stuff it is.

Speaker 2 1:16:18

I mean it's, it's one of those things. So what do you do? Right, because I mean I see, as a creative, there's there's a lot of different creative thoughts when you, when you introduce ai, like one things that can kill creativity. Right, like I can, basically I could say, make me a painting of steve murphy.

Speaker 2 1:16:32

Having a pint into my meta can already do it and it's right there yeah, but I mean, on the other hand of it, it's, it gives me, uh, almost like a how do I I don't want to say this uh, god-like composition, uh like, if I want to say write me a, a screenplay about such and such and such and such and such and such, all of a sudden I've become a screenwriter, a director, a.

Speaker 3 1:16:56

And you're none of the above actually Exactly right?

Speaker 2 1:16:58

I haven't trained to do any of these things.

Speaker 3 1:17:00

So is this the right time to reveal to all of the people who are listening that this is all a creation of AI're, we're not real people.

Speaker 2 1:17:07

There were.

Speaker 3 1:17:07

No, there were no, there were no points. You know it's shorting out, it could come to that. Yeah, no, it's true.

Speaker 1 1:17:14

You know what it's. It's funny. The um that I I don't like. It's like I'm in some ways I'm. People ever want to let go of humanity.

Speaker 3 1:17:26

But they might not have any say over it.

Speaker 1 1:17:28

They might not know what's happening.

Speaker 3 1:17:30

You know the old sayings about once the toothpaste is out of the tube.

Speaker 1 1:17:34

Yes.

Speaker 3 1:17:35

Well, this genie may be out of the bottle to use an underbottle.

Speaker 2 1:17:38

It's installed on our phones now. It's built into the iPhone now.

Speaker 3 1:17:42

And the whole idea of Frankenstein may have come true Right.

Speaker 2 1:17:47

Could be.

Speaker 3 1:17:48

You can create a monster that you can't control. We may have done that.

Speaker 2 1:17:51

Yeah, I mean there's another way to look at it. Do you watch Star Wars?

Speaker 3 1:17:57

You know I've watched Star Wars. The first time I went to Star Wars I fell asleep. No, I appreciate Star Wars, I'm more of a Star Trek guy. Okay, cool, I know Star Wars, one of the newer.

A Yearly Reflection

Speaker 2 1:18:05

Star Wars shows I think it's the Mandalorian. They go to a planet where basically the AI just takes care of everything for them and they don't have to do anything and they're just the laziest, sloppiest human beings of all time, but they're extremely happy and wealthy. So maybe that version will happen. Let's hope for that.

Speaker 3 1:18:21

Well, okay.

Speaker 2 1:18:23

You are an optimistic person, I guess. No but the danger is that that won't happen.

Speaker 3 1:18:29

Yeah, and that, instead of being the masters of the of the technology right will be the slaves yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 1:18:36

You know what I got from all of this. Well, that we need to do another type of podcast where we just go and have a bunch of beers and we just call it steve's opinions, sure, and what we do is we get Steve like six points to me To be continued.

Speaker 3 1:18:52

Listen, it doesn't take when you spend as many years as I did constraining your opinions. Believe me, they're all in there. Yeah, as I say, they're itching to get out.

Speaker 2 1:19:03

Well, Steve, you're welcome to come back on the show. You're welcome back anytime. I appreciate it, guys, If you've got a thought now or if you want to come close the year out with us, come getting closer to next year. Anytime you want, my friend.

Speaker 3 1:19:13

Why don't we meet here again a year from now and do it all over again?

Speaker 2 1:19:15

Sounds amazing to me, just to see what happens?

Speaker 3 1:19:17

Yeah, because you know, I can guarantee you that by the end of uh, 2025, stuff will have happened that we could not possibly have anticipated. Oh, I like right we could sit and talk about all those things I like it.

Speaker 1 1:19:41

Yeah, well, you know what cheers.

Speaker 2 1:19:43

Happy new year to that.

Speaker 1 1:19:44

We're a week later, but yeah, great, thank you very much appreciate the hospitality.

Speaker 2 1:19:49

Appreciate the hospitality at the Triangle. Thank you, old Triangle. They're the best, you guys are awesome. Cheers, love the snugs. Yes, bye.