Afternoon Pint
Afternoon Pint is a laid-back Canadian podcast hosted by Matt Conrad and Mike Tobin. Each week they meet at at a craft brewery, restaurant or pub with a surprise special guest.
They have been graced with appearances from some truly impressive entrepreneurs, athletes, authors, entertainers, politicians, professors, activists, paranormal investigators, journalists and more. Each week the show is a little different, kind of like meeting a new person at the pub for a first, second or third time.
Anything goes on the show but the aim of their program is to bring people together. Please join in for a fun and friendly pub based podcast that is all about a having a pint, making connections and sharing some good human spirit.
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Afternoon Pint
Jacqueline and Wendy: Survivors of Human Trafficking and Domestic Violence are now the Saviours of others with 'Thriving Twogether.'
Jacqueline's story will leave you speechless – trafficked for 11 years starting at age 11, explains how children in foster care become vulnerable to exploitation not primarily through drugs, but through their need for love and attention. Her journey from victim to advocate reveals both the horrors of human trafficking and the remarkable resilience of the human spirit. Meanwhile, Wendy shares her powerful transformation from addiction and homelessness while pregnant and fleeing domestic violence, to becoming an educated professional dedicated to helping others.
Together, these warriors are tackling Nova Scotia's alarming statistics as the province with the highest human trafficking rate in Canada – 8.6 per 100,000 compared to the national average of just 1.4. Their approach is revolutionary: creating comprehensive support systems specifically for men who cause harm, addressing root traumas and teaching emotional regulation. As they explain, "We cannot support women without supporting the male population."
From their harm reduction services (including drug testing and Narcan kits) to professional therapy and peer support, Thriving Together Society operates on the front lines with zero government funding. They're showing that early intervention and teaching consent from childhood are essential to breaking cycles of violence. Their message is clear: behind many perpetrators are unhealed victims, and true change requires compassion alongside accountability.
Listen to this episode to help enhance your knowledge about community safety, want to understand the real causes behind violence against women, or simply need your faith in humanity restored by witnessing how two extraordinary women transformed their deepest traumas into a force for healing.
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Kimia Nejat of Kimia Nejat Realty
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Cheers.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Afternoon Pint. I'm Mike Tobin, I am Matt Conrad, and who do we have with us today?
Speaker 3:I'm Jacqueline, the Executive Director of Thriving Together Society.
Speaker 4:And I'm Wendy, the Executive Director of Community Engagement at Thriving Together Society.
Speaker 2:What is Thriving Together Society?
Speaker 3:It is a wraparound support in the Western zone for intimate partner violence, human trafficking, mental health for men. There's a lot of gaps in our services for men specifically that are causing harm against women, and Wendy and I believe that we cannot support women without supporting the male population. So we opened up the Thriving Together Society in the hopes of working with those that are causing harm and challenge those behaviors, as typically our men are just not waking up and deciding to harm women. It is a learned behavior and it is trauma, generational trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Our men are experiencing things and there's not enough supports for them.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, so you impact a lot there. Yeah, so I mean so this so you guys help people that are in need, and this starts from human trafficking and stems into domestic violence. You really need help.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Is that what it is?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's important to highlight too we're in June which is Men's Mental Health.
Speaker 2:Month. Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:This is actually a really good time to talk about this type of thing, we did talk a little bit about men's mental health with Liz LeClaire, our previous guest, which I thought was a interesting way to address the violence that's happening in the province and in the country. Whereas it's so quick to people go and just be like that guy's a monster, whereas to take it as an approach of like you know, he may have been a victim who is now abusing yes absolutely is a different approach, which may be a you know it's hard to.
Speaker 1:It's hard when someone's committing a crime and hurting people to like show them any form of empathy but at the same time, if we want to fix the problem, that may be the right route to go 100, yeah, and I think, like what's important to recognize is we're all humans, we all deserve the same quality of care.
Speaker 3:that someone that is a victim and someone that is causing harm they still deserve that same quality of care, regardless if you're a victim or an accused, and that's something that is really important to us, because we're not going to see a difference if we're not supporting them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Thriving Together is an optimistic name and the two is T-W-O. Yes so this is assistance. This is help for people that are really in need. Right, yeah, absolutely that's awesome that you guys are doing this, and I got to ask, like, what drove you? Like I'd love to know each one of your stories individually. That brought you to this. So we'll start with you what was your story that got you there?
Speaker 3:So I grew up in care Okay, I was a child in care in Ontario, Most of my childhood in and out of foster homes, group homes and my biological family. And I was also a human trafficking. I'm a survivor of human trafficking for 11 years, Wow.
Speaker 1:From what age to what age?
Speaker 3:From the age of 11. Wow Age 11.
Speaker 2:11. You were Age 11. 11. So you were a child, yeah.
Speaker 3:So often for children in care.
Speaker 2:We're easily exploited because we're vulnerable and children in care quote, unquote. What does that mean? Foster care, Foster care, right? Okay, yeah, yeah. So kids you were in foster care and how, in the like, what happened?
Speaker 3:How did this happen that you two you had 11 years old, what, where? How did you? I was in a group home, okay, and it's uh. I was approached by an individual that was a well-known community member and, um, he promised me the world and like a public figure kind of person uh, not public figure, but a community member okay so someone that was coaching and doing things within the school system and was involved in the foster care system, uh.
Speaker 3:So I respected him and he was like, come stay with me, come see this, I'll give you a cell phone. And I needed that.
Speaker 1:I wanted a parent's love and he was an adult yeah, but you know what's like it's not the first time I've heard something along like that Like there's somebody who I know, whose daughter almost went through that. It started just the way you said it she wasn't in care, she was living with her mom and she was lured out. I think she might have been 14, maybe, but lured out right and basically 14 maybe, but lured out right and and basically like, yeah, we'll give you a debit card, we'll give you the cell phone.
Speaker 1:Well, they promised you the world yeah, it's like stay with us and like you know you can stay out late, like whatever. Right, it's like all those things that a teenager wants to do, that a parent protects you from making those mistakes. They say, ah, you'll be okay. Yeah, it's. It's amazing and what I learned from that experience because she called me just because I know some politicians and some police officers and stuff. She was like, what can I do? And I was like, honestly, I don't know. But I will talk to some people. But the thing I learned that night was, at 14 years of age, the police can't go and take her away.
Speaker 2:So back to you, so the police can't take you away. You're trapped. At what point did you realize you were in a bad place as a kid?
Speaker 4:You're 11 years old.
Speaker 2:No no. And how many years were you suffering through this 11 years? I can't, just can't believe it.
Speaker 3:And, like I, think what is common for children in care is we're abused at home with our biological families. So we don't see anything different, we don't know anything different.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And when someone was approaching me and being kind to me, that's what I wanted. Um, and then, as soon as the grooming and the exploitation started happening, I was like, well, this is normal, like this has happened before. Um, I was sexually abused as a child, so that was normal Um so. I just accepted it and so this is.
Speaker 2:You felt like this is a righteous path, in a sense of being being welcomed into somebody's life, absolutely so what?
Speaker 1:at what point did like does it go from? Stay with me and I'll give you everything to changing that to like. I'm now going to like pimp you out.
Speaker 3:Uh, you don't notice it.
Speaker 1:No, okay.
Speaker 3:Um for my experience.
Speaker 4:I didn't notice it.
Speaker 3:Um, I was. There was like I was sleeping with men already at age 11. So it wasn't different. Um, so, someone was now gaining.
Speaker 2:This is an Ontario. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:So it was like I was helping them yeah, and I love helping people, so it was an easy way to buy me in and, as soon as I got, to provide other girls with opportunities to have a life and help them, because now I'm feeding them.
Speaker 2:It made sense to me. This is heartbreaking man. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through this mean I know it's a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're freaking warrior for doing what you're doing now. This is like amazing to me, yeah, like I don't know how somebody survives that you don't have a choice yeah, so what I?
Speaker 3:see now is is normal. Yeah, and that's horrible and we don't talk about it enough no and I think that's why I'm so passionate, passionate about it.
Speaker 2:I think people shy away from this stuff because it's super uncomfortable, right? I mean it's uncomfortable for me to ask you these questions right now, 100%. I'm not sure if it's uncomfortable to answer them, but like it is like you know.
Speaker 3:I mean I'm a little warmer was a problem until I was 20.
Speaker 2:Yeah, until you were 20. Can I ask, like, what was the epiphany for you, what was the day, or can you even remember the time where you said, holy shit, what am I doing? This isn't normal.
Speaker 3:I'm rebellious.
Speaker 2:I'm very stubborn, right.
Speaker 3:Um, there was an incident I refused to do something and I had consequences to me refusing, and those refusals um are extreme. So, that's that moment I, I kept refusing and kept refusing.
Speaker 2:Realize you had no power in this situation.
Speaker 3:I didn't have power, I didn't have a voice, I didn't have a say yeah. So, and you're?
Speaker 2:a grown person at that point yeah. And, like we're, we're drugs involved. Were you addicted to drugs?
Speaker 3:No, so like drugs were a part of it, but not the ring I was in. That was not the main focus.
Speaker 2:It's weird, because I thought that was how they get most people. Sometimes they get young people and they get them addicted to bad drugs. That's what I believe the narrative is.
Speaker 1:That is very much a Hollywood thing that we see, but I'm sure it happens for real. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But kids in care just want someone's attention.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Someone to love them.
Speaker 2:Such a basic human need Someone to accept them yeah.
Speaker 3:And validate what they're feeling and what they're seeing and be told you deserve better. Yeah, so the drugs wasn't an issue. Did I use drugs? Yes, yeah, but there was more harsh consequences Gasoline so abuse, but there was more harsh consequences.
Speaker 1:Gasoline Abuse Gasoline.
Speaker 3:Being poured on bodies that burns.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, there was other forms of tactics that they used Unreal and like how big are these organizations? Is this a one psychopath or is this a psychopath that's in a network of psychopaths? How does this these organizations? Is this a one cycle path or is this a cycle path that's in a network of cycle paths? How does this even work? Like I don't understand.
Speaker 3:That's a really hard question to answer.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah no.
Speaker 4:And it depends. Like it's not necessarily. Sometimes it is just one single person, other times it's a whole ring, yeah, and a lot of the rings are connected between provinces, like they move from Nova Scotia to New Brunswick, to Ontario, to Montreal, like Quebec, bc.
Speaker 4:They take them all over the place, and sometimes it's just your partner, your intimate partner, and they use you so they're able to secure drugs. They sell you to get what they want. To them you're just a paycheck, but to the survivors it actually feels like they're in a loving relationship. It's the first time they've ever been loved. Yeah, it's the first times anyone's actually cared about them and first time anyone's bought them anything um so they really feed into that vulnerability so it's, it's not.
Speaker 3:I can't just say it's one person. Yeah, there's a collective of people in different varieties, and each situation is different.
Speaker 1:I think it's not a secret that you know, like we know, that there's issues in Nova Scotia and that there's a lot of like trafficking.
Speaker 3:So Nova Scotia is the highest per capita.
Speaker 4:It's the highest per capita Of Canada Substantially higher, like 6.3 per 100,000.
Speaker 2:Is this a law enforcement problem? What is the problem there?
Speaker 4:We're in a coastal community, we're what? Always within 67 kilometers? Oh my gosh, okay.
Speaker 2:So they're literally putting people in containers and stuff.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, that doesn't. No, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess, I get everything from action movies like Liam Neeson taken right, like you know, sorry, and that does happen, yeah, but that's not typically what we see working in the field.
Speaker 1:Is it Taurus? Is that what it is Like? Is that why, or what's the deal with like? Why does ocean like having surrounded by ocean?
Speaker 3:Because so if you go to Yarmouth, you can go to Digby. You can go to New Brunswick you can go the 103, the 101. You go to Cape Breton you can go to. Pei, you can go to Newfoundland. You have all the major ports that can get you to different parts of the world.
Speaker 2:So back to you, sorry. Yeah absolutely so. You went, you were 20 years old and you realized this 22. 22 years old. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:When I got out, when you got out.
Speaker 2:So 20,. You realize there was something wrong. Yeah Right. And then what were the steps of getting out? Like, how did you untangle yourself from this web? Because you must have been deeply entrapped at this point. That's not like a small amount of time. This is all you knew.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So it took lots of patience, lots of time there's not many organizations that work with the aftercare so having your identity stolen and trying to figure that out and fraud. So bankruptcy is a huge thing for victims of trafficking because your identity is being used to pay the power to pay Internet. So it took me years I think I was 28 when I finally was able to look at my stuff and say, okay, I'm okay, I'm going to be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um intense therapy, and I still attend therapy daily, like not daily, but at least yeah. Um, and then talking about it, just openly, talking about it with people is something that helps healing. Peer-to-peer support is a real thing. It's a vital service for victims and survivors so you got out of this world yeah, and I I moved to nova scotia, yeah, um is.
Speaker 1:It was the move to nova scotia. Like to just escape, like the circle, or to escape like just a change of scenery, or like like the circle, or to escape like just a change of scenery or like did you like were people trying to bring you back, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:No, so I met my partner, um, he's originally from Barrington and we played ball together. Oh, cool, I'm very competitive in baseball, okay, um. So we played baseball together and met in Ontario and, um, I have a foster home and I had.
Speaker 3:I was a foster parent and I have a foster home and I was a foster parent and I'm still technically a foster parent in Nova Scotia. So we rented an RV and brought our children down here to visit Nova Scotia to meet my partner's parents, and we fell in love with Nova Scotia. Cool, we were in back row, so Crow's Ne, I think it's called in the South shore, and we spent every day in September in the ocean and we loved it. So we went back to Ontario and over, always looking over your shoulder to see if someone's following you is a real thing, um paranoia, um fearful that people have found you or located you.
Speaker 3:What are they trying to convince Like? What are they trying to do? Was a thing in my mind. So I struggled with mental health and I struggled with worry. So my body would respond to those situations and it would be a trauma response. So I'd have often hospitalization um life support because my body wasn't responding give away that extreme stress I've been reading so much about.
Speaker 2:I'm reading. I'm reading a book right now. I read a lot of weird books. It's called this.
Speaker 3:One's called supernatural healing okay, you should read body. The body keeps the score. Okay, yeah, amazing book but.
Speaker 2:But what the book's kind of talking about is like living through past traumas and like how people have terrible things happen and their bodies become paralyzed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they live it Like your body is always living it and you just keep reliving this nightmare over and over again.
Speaker 2:It can actually just be worse, like over time, right.
Speaker 3:So we came in 2021 to visit my partner's family and then my partner's mom came down for Christmas and we celebrated Christmas and then December 28th he was like let's move to Nova Scotia you were like hell yeah, I'm like okay, and I was expecting a time frame.
Speaker 3:So he was an accountant at the time and so I was like we're going into tax season, we're going to move probably next year. And he's like let's move in January. Wow, I'm like, let's move in January. Wow, I'm like December 28th and we moved January 28th of 2022.
Speaker 2:Right, no, looking back here. You're happy, you're here.
Speaker 1:Question for you, and you can feel free to not answer this, but like what are the struggles of having a monogamous relationship with somebody after everything that you've gone through? And like what can that other person do to best support you?
Speaker 3:Communication. So there's certain things I won't allow in a relationship, like watching porn is not something I'm interested in. And he supports that and he listens to it. We have safe words.
Speaker 2:No, he doesn't watch porn either. Or just you don't watch porn, we don't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, both it's a mutual thing, yeah um then, like safe words saying if he's doing something, I'm not feeling comfortable, then I'll say this the word and he just stops that's a good partner, yeah and if I'm not interested, he doesn't force it, that's awesome um yeah, and I, I lead what I want to do yeah so the communication is key in a relationship after like being a survivor yeah that's a great question yeah no great question yeah do you mind if we ask your story and how you got involved with with the together to gather, we thrive, sorry.
Speaker 4:Thriving Together Society.
Speaker 2:Thriving.
Speaker 4:Together, so Jacqueline and I are actually from the same community.
Speaker 1:Oh, no way we did not know each other. We worked in the same organization.
Speaker 4:When she came, she said the name of the town and I was like no, you have to be kidding me, there's no way I'm trying to get away from there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're on your way out of Yarmouth.
Speaker 3:No out of Ontario, no Ontario.
Speaker 4:Ontario okay, you were on your way out of Ontario, no we met at the same organization, so I was already out of Ontario. I actually lived in Newfoundland for a little bit and then I came to Nova Scotia and then we were both working at the same organization. I was already there. She comes in and she's like oh, I'm like oh, where are you from in Ontario? And she says the place. And I'm like no, there's no way you're from there, like that's where I'm from. Now we do have like a seven year age gap.
Speaker 4:So, we didn't really come in contact with each other. I left Ontario when I was 22. So she was just a child when I left. Amazing. But, it was just like that invisible string theory, where they bring people in your life when you need them most. And then, within working in that organization, we saw the gaps. We saw that we weren't able to help the people that really needed the help. I'm actually a recovered addict, okay, so I've been clean for 15, 16 years, thank you.
Speaker 2:So I come in from that aspect. I have that history. I've done withdrawal. It's hugely helpful for what you guys are trying to do. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I have tattoos, I have a bunch of piercings. So when people come in and they see me. It's very welcoming.
Speaker 2:They see themselves.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly I'm a version of them. I didn't have any self-esteem growing up. I'm surprised I didn't fall into trafficking. I think I was very lucky not to. I lived in a country, rural area in Ontario and then, yeah, we just kind of crossed paths. Even before I started working where we worked, I was actually homeless.
Speaker 4:Homeless and pregnant, and just had left a domestic violence situation with my child's father, so I was fleeing that, I was couch surfing and everything while I was pregnant. I think. Finally, when my daughter was four months old, I was finally able to sustain housing. So it was rough, for I think I left him when I was six months pregnant.
Speaker 1:Were you here in Nova Scotia or still in Ontario.
Speaker 4:No, I was in Yarmouth.
Speaker 1:You were in Yarmouth, okay, at that time, okay.
Speaker 4:So it all happened here. And then I'm like, oh, I need to do something. I need to help people that are like me, people that have always felt not the same as everyone else, a little bit different, I'm very unique. So I'm going to go take social services. So I went to NSCC, I got my social services diploma and then I did the two and two. So after that I actually went to Mount St Vincent and I got my bachelor's degree.
Speaker 2:That's nice Yep.
Speaker 4:All while raising my child. Being a single parent, I also have a 20-year-old son, so there's a bit of an age gap there. There's a 13-year age gap between my two children, and he grew up with a mom as an addict.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was five. He has a whole different version of you than your younger one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we grew up together.
Speaker 4:So I feel for these people in these situations and I give them exactly what I needed.
Speaker 2:Can I ask what you were addicted to? Cocaine, cocaine, yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:And I have to say that Wendy's children are incredible. I love her son and I love her daughter. I couldn't imagine my life without them.
Speaker 2:Awesome, and they're both still in your life, which is awesome. Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 4:My son's actually now going to Mount St Vincent himself. Oh.
Speaker 2:St Vincent himself, oh cool.
Speaker 4:So it's kind of like that full circle moment he's doing political science.
Speaker 2:Oh neat. So I'm very proud of him. Okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I kind of flipped that all around and I think part of going into social services. You know I was 40 years old, yeah. And I was going back to school. I hadn't been to school in 20 years. I graduated in 2000, and I reapplied in 2020.
Speaker 2:Talk about changing your life at 40.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, I love that, but yeah like you know, my buddy, Gary Vee, says, like you know, you're not dead at 40, you're not dead at 60. 100%.
Speaker 1:Do whatever you want with your life, right, if you want to make it, like you know. But it's great to see someone who was like so down, for sure To be able to like rise up again and really kind of, really, not only have you completely turned things around, uh, you know, obviously, like financially, like just you're yourself, you're being and everything, but you're now also doing good work, right?
Speaker 3:you're not just like oh, you know what I have I got.
Speaker 1:I got a good job. I'm a manager of this like a. You know, I manage ikea.
Speaker 3:Whatever right, like you're also turning around and using it to put and I think sometimes my parents wishes that I became a manager of the store rather than doing what I think it's important for both Wendy and I both is to create an organization that we needed, yeah when you have, and the good thing is that you each have experiences that would support.
Speaker 1:They're very different experiences, but you can help more people than if you both had the similar experience.
Speaker 2:right For sure, the yin and the yang yeah kind of. Yeah, I think it's really cool. I've noticed I've seen in a lot of smaller communities now these are the ones that are struggling the most. Folks don't have a lot of help for addiction. You can see this when you go to smaller communities now. We didn't see it on the street 10 or 15 years ago. It's right in front of your face now, man, like it's really, you know, really predominant right. These times are not getting easier on certain folks and it's showing right. So these institutions really help. So your place isn't a place where people can like go to you, go to them. It's more of a how does that work?
Speaker 3:So they can come to our location. Okay, but we can also go to them. So we're at 4 Second Street in Yarmouth, nova Scotia. It's the old Vanguard building, which a lot of people know because it's a newspaper. So we have a small portion of that building. It is quite large, uh. So they can come in, they can get harm reduction supplies, they can come get a free breakfast at any time from 8, 30 to 5 that's cool.
Speaker 3:Uh, they can get peer support. We have a registered therapist. Uh, that is in our building as well okay uh, we have programs. Yeah, it's great yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:Is this done through government subsidies or fundraising?
Speaker 4:Yeah, Funny you bring that up. We're actually completely funding it ourselves currently.
Speaker 2:No way, how? So? If anybody has any money out there, honestly, how Not to be rude, but how are you funding it yourselves?
Speaker 4:That's insane. It's a struggle, and we just had a few meetings with some cabinet ministers.
Speaker 2:So you guys are going around asking people hat in hand to help your community out?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, wow.
Speaker 4:And our history and the people that we've helped, like they're all like how can we help? What can we do? Can?
Speaker 4:we give a testimonial? Can we do this? Can we help in your peer support? Because who better to support than the people who have gotten out of trafficking or have caused domestic violence, have been victims of domestic violence and it's so empowering to take that power back and be able to help the community. So all of our clients are very willing to do what they need to do and our stats are showing it and we haven't heard a no yet. It's just waiting for those funding and when you're a non-for-profit organization, they actually expect you to have a year of financials before they'll give you funding.
Speaker 2:How do you make it through a year right in the not-for-profit world.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um so our breakfast bar is actually provided by parents place, which is another um community-led organization within yarmouth. Um, so they offer that Mainline actually does our harm reduction supplies.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then the two of us, so people can come to you if they're for to get out the, they can get syringes. Thank you, they can get cookers.
Speaker 4:They can get pipes like crack pipes. We also have test strips. Most of the test strips are normally used by like what I call the weekend party or someone going to a rave. They want to make sure that their drugs don't have fentanyl, benzos or xylosine in them, so we do offer those test strips.
Speaker 2:So you can go to your place, you can actually test the drugs and go away with your drugs.
Speaker 4:Well, they take the tests themselves with them we don't want to see any drugs.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of some legalities around that.
Speaker 4:And I'm a recovering addict. Do I want cocaine in my building knowingly?
Speaker 2:and be testing it.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit of a temptation for me, still after 15 years 100%.
Speaker 4:So we supply those test strips. They have to just use a little tiny bit of their product. They mix it with some distilled water and then it comes up to a different color and that tells you whether it has fentanyl. And then we also have the xylosine or the benzo.
Speaker 3:And we also have Narcans as well.
Speaker 4:Oh okay, narcans, yeah, both nasal and injectables, because we have found a lot of people who are recovering. Addicts don't want to be around needles. They don't want to have the needles of their Narcan kids.
Speaker 2:Fair enough, almost petrifying to see probably what's triggering as well, and we also encourage all users to do not use alone.
Speaker 3:Use someone, use with someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, use Okay.
Speaker 4:Because it's not safe to use alone.
Speaker 1:Obviously the OD. Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 4:And they do have the Good Samaritans law. Although it's not perfect, it does protect someone, essentially so.
Speaker 2:Good Samaritans. Like somebody comes to you, just find someone to come at your aid.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if you administer Narcan to somebody, you have to call 911. So then the police come. They are not supposed to charge you with having illicit substances because you're saving a life. So it's called the Good Samaritan Law. They're not supposed to be able to. Now, if you're on parole and stuff, it gets a little iffy there. But it's supposed to allow people to give Narcan and not just leave them on a bench which has happened recently in Barrington actually.
Speaker 4:So they want the people there, they want to be able to know how many times have you administered? Because a lot of people think you administer once and they're good. They're just going to come back to life and they're fine. That's not the case. Case depending on the amount of drugs in their system and their ability to how long they've been using drugs. Sometimes it takes 10, 12 kids to bring them back. And they're giving it to the ambulance in an IV line and just constant Narcan.
Speaker 1:And a lot of people aren't aware of that, just to keep them alive, essentially Until they get to the hospital Until they can get back. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. You guys probably helped save a lot of lives, man, essentially until they get to the hospital until they can get back man yeah, so yeah, it's definitely uh, you guys probably helped save a lot of lives man Like we hope so.
Speaker 4:I think you both did. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, and they save our own lives. Like it's so empowering to be able to give back.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and we learned so much from them.
Speaker 1:No, maybe I missed it. When did you guys start your organization?
Speaker 3:In January, just in January of this year.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's really really new and so yeah, so basically we need to make sure that we uh really annoy uh the government to make sure that you got to get, we are doing that too, but the more the better. It's hard for them not to listen, Tim was on our show and wants to come back on. He actually asked if he can come back on.
Speaker 2:Maybe AP. I think this should be our next fundraiser, bro. We'll get something to work.
Speaker 4:Put Tim on the hot seat, ask him.
Speaker 2:You guys brought a duetang. I'm not making fun of your duetang, it's just you guys have some stuff you want to share and let's go through some of these topics and stuff. I'd rather see what you guys have some stuff you want to share and, uh, let's go through some of the these topics and stuff. I'd rather see what you guys wanted to share with us today, so please, well, I think one of our biggest highlights is the intimate partner violence okay we're in an epidemic in nova scotia yeah, liz leclair, I think took uh is taking this on massively right now.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah she is.
Speaker 3:Uh, so men are causing harm and uh, our women are suffering and it's we're not going to see a change, uh, if we don't have a system in place.
Speaker 2:And we're reactive, we're not proactive when you guys sit there, I mean and and pontificate or whatever. How are you figuring it out? Like, why is it becoming a bigger problem? It's such a weird thing to me to see these types of behaviors not going away.
Speaker 3:So they're not going away because they're not being supported. How does someone get help? When there's no organizations helping them, and when we have an issue with housing we have 1,138 people right now that are homeless.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And out of that 1,138, there is 1,109 adults, and 739 of them are critically homeless, and then we have 123.
Speaker 1:What does critically homeless mean?
Speaker 3:They're continuously homeless. Okay, it's not like new.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And there was a rise since 2018, 182 increase in rise of homelessness since 2018.
Speaker 1:I also did hear, and you can let me know if this is true but I also heard that the reason not the reason, but part of why we're seeing an increase in this domestic violence is because of the housing shortage and literally women are like I have literally nowhere to go. They don't. So they basically just suffer it out, yeah Well and then we're the poverty, the rates of poverty in Nova.
Speaker 3:Scotia is so high and our minimum wage is one of the lowest in Canada.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:There there's no means to get out. Um, and we're seeing the increase because women and men are now having to work to be able to make the basic needs. And then our men are struggling and not having mental health support. They're weighing the world on their shoulders. They have nowhere to let that anger out, let that frustration, and you guys weren't taught how to deal with your emotions. You're told to man up.
Speaker 2:Wipe away your tears, no crying. Yeah, I mean I think it's a little bit easier now. I think parenting today is not as man up as it might have been, and even my generation or generation definitely generation before me. But look at the people that are harming women.
Speaker 3:The statistics right now. How many older generations are dying? It's not something that you're like 22 year olds, it's the 87 year olds, it's the 67 year olds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like, when you look at a lot of the so the domestic violence cases are higher.
Speaker 2:older, older people yeah.
Speaker 1:Like 40 and up kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay, so it is, it is.
Speaker 1:It is like who, our generation, where basically it was like you're not allowed to have emotions outside of happiness and anger, and so where are you releasing that?
Speaker 3:You're taking that home. You're stressed about bills. You're stressed about your mortgage. You're stressed that you can't buy a house and you're paying $2,100 for a two-bedroom apartment. You can't make your car payment. You can't take care of your children. Your children are being taken from you because you meet the poverty line and you can't support them. So where does that all come from? That's anger, and we don't have healthy coping strategies for them. So that's it's kind of the problem. And if we're not, it's okay.
Speaker 2:No problem.
Speaker 4:I'm getting over a little bit of pneumonia.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, just don't share it. No, it's not contagious, you're fine.
Speaker 3:So I think that's we need to be talking early intervention rather than being a reactive approach, it's a proactive approach.
Speaker 1:Do you see it like just based on generational like kind of stuff? Generational trauma well, no, well, there's that too. But I mean, like, with it being the plus 40, like, do we see anything in terms of like, oh, there's hope, because these kids who are 25, because they're growing up in that home.
Speaker 1:Okay, they don't know different yeah, so they're growing up with the 45 year old. So, yeah, they're going up with the 45 year old, yes, so yeah, they're going up with the 45 year old. Who is passing on that, whatever mentality that they have.
Speaker 3:The learned behavior, the trauma, the exposure, the acceptable behaviors and we're not talking about healthy relationships at when kids are young.
Speaker 4:We need to introduce what that is. So when they go home and they're like, maybe this isn't, maybe what my mom and dad although they love me and they care about me, maybe this isn't healthy, maybe and challenge that thought process, just because you see your mom and dad fight and argue doesn't mean it has to be the same for you. But when you see that and that's all you know that's what a relationship is.
Speaker 3:How do you do it?
Speaker 2:different yeah.
Speaker 4:Children learn by what they see. And that's when they see that day in and day out it's so normalized they don't even think differently about it, which is really sad.
Speaker 3:Scary so if we talk about the mass casualty that happened. There was a mass casualty report completed and in that mass casualty report it talks about, like a proactive approach, our RCMP, our community organizations, more community-based non-for-profits working with the community and being there before things happened, rather than responding to a murder and a murder-suicide who were there before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all those incidents that were reported to police about you know there was a lot of signs that that guy was a bit wacky. Yeah, I mean, you know, just put it gently.
Speaker 3:He struggled and not to dismiss the families that have been affected by it, because I wasn't here and I can't imagine how they felt.
Speaker 2:However, First step I'm making a police car, yeah.
Speaker 3:Why that's trauma he and the report indicated that he had significant generational trauma and he had parents. He grew up. There was a lot of domestic violence calls.
Speaker 2:But I think, you know, I think in his case I don't think I think his level of success, uh, probably made him a little less looked at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, respectable, quote-unquote, unquote business man. Professional.
Speaker 2:Business man.
Speaker 1:Professional community.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think, it highlights the intimate partner violence, the RCMP officers that have killed their wives and then killed themselves just in recent. They're members of the community. We're not looking at the people that could be struggling.
Speaker 1:Right. They're in high demand job I think that's an important thing to also highlight because, um, when you look at the um abuse, spousal abuse and so, oddly enough, police officers actually tend to really lead that category. Yeah, and I think that is something that where you're kind of hitting the nail on the head is the amount of trauma that police officers are probably the things that they see every day and all that and they're just taking it home 100%.
Speaker 3:Not talking about it, shoving it down.
Speaker 1:So they're just shoveling it down and it turns around to not being emotionally intelligent enough to to handle the healthy way absolutely yeah, and they're not being taught it so how?
Speaker 3:how do you change that?
Speaker 2:yeah, um well, I mean. I mean the thing is is I think a lot of men don't take the first steps in trying to figure themselves out when they face problems or dilemmas and stuff so where would you go?
Speaker 3:where would you go?
Speaker 2:Where would you go, your doctor?
Speaker 3:So you're going to go to your family doctor, you could go to your physician. And what are you going to do?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you know, I mean you would just tell them I'm having weird feelings, thoughts, whatever, and ask to be put with someone right, Not a psychiatrist, Then typically that's a four to six months wait list Right Four to six months.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, you know you went through the.
Speaker 2:ADHD thing. I went through the ADHD thing just recently because 18 months, yeah, I waited. You don't want to actually shorter? Oh, you're on a list.
Speaker 3:Significantly shorter I just got my like.
Speaker 1:I went and asked for it in April and I'm getting it in my test on October.
Speaker 3:You're in Halifax.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm in Halifax so.
Speaker 2:I was about six months away too, yeah, and I mean, from there it was pretty quick once you got the test and the diagnosis was super fast and and uh. But you know, it is so funny because as as a guy, you're just like you start to wonder, like right now I'm at a stage where it's like, do I want to take you know drugs for this right, or or do I not want to take drugs for this and try to just get any kind of cognitive behavioral therapy in natural ways, like I mean, I find dialectical behavioral therapy pardon me dialectical, dialectical, dialectical behavioral therapy okay, dialectical, dialectical, dialectical dbt
Speaker 1:I don't know to be fair, though, even though it may be six months, like, like you know for that in Halifax, I think it's still six months of like potential abuse, and things like that.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, if you look at that abuse situation, six months is a pretty scary window, right Like if really don't. I mean, I love the fact that you're putting me and asking me this, because I really don't. These are good, right? So?
Speaker 1:Also. It's helping me also and hopefully you too is like helping me realize like we have a really good core group of friends.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like there's four of us that are really, really tight. You know, we've known each other for 20 years or more and you know we're all dads, we're we just we're all career professionals, but we're in the same, we're in the same world. Right, and the good thing is is the privilege that I have is like I don't really have that like need to, like I don't feel like I need to get that, like that stuff out, or I'm like I'm not holding onto something, and if I did, maybe it's because I don't, it's because I can talk to him about what's frustrating me.
Speaker 2:We talk to our friends, the four of us, right, we are like I mean our friend group is highly and my communication with my partner, I mean I tell her everything I'm thinking and she tells me what she's thinking. I don't, we don't like really, I even tell her, like when I and like you know, a fun week thing is like we had to go see my family on the weekend, but there was a lot going on. You know one of those days where, okay, everybody wants us to be everywhere and we, you know, sometimes we divide and conquer. But this is one of those days where I was like no, babe, I really think it's important we go see everybody today and make it work for everyone, because everyone's important. I don't want anyone to feel at the end of the day, that they're less important than the other people. So let's just suck it up and do it all.
Speaker 3:And that's our business model right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because I felt, you know, because you feel, I mean, I went from happy to almost angry in a moment because I'm like, well, you know, one person is not less important than the other person. I, you know, want to defend everybody, and you know these talk about this. We, we can, you know, even, you know we can cool down, we can kind of just get through this, but I'm a big communicator, right and what if you didn't have that?
Speaker 4:yeah, I don't know, right, so many people don't have those 20 year old friendships where 20 year old friendships, 10 year old partners.
Speaker 2:That I mean you know. I mean yeah, that you can really rely on to have a conversation with open and honest.
Speaker 4:so and honest so many people feel like they have to put on this front for their partner or their friends because they don't have that history. A new friendship. Right Like, how hard is it to make friends in your 40s, especially if you come to a new community? And these are tight-knit communities in Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1:Sure yeah.
Speaker 4:There's just generations of people living there.
Speaker 2:So coming into that situation, so I got to ask you what does a guy do and when?
Speaker 3:you're like working in a professional field such as RCMP, or a doctor or a nurse or any of those fields. You can't go out and talk about something like it's confidentiality.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So I can't just go home and talk to my spouse about what I seen, because I can't like confidentiality, so they're building it up.
Speaker 2:Well, don't they have therapists that like within the, within the organizations, like those are the RCMP have like an RCMP?
Speaker 3:person that talks to them? I believe so, but I think it would be really hard to admit that you're struggling, because then you're off.
Speaker 1:This is where I think we're like in this day and age, where people are confused with the difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity. People are confused with the difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity. Yes, there's nothing wrong with being masculine and masculine things. Where it's toxic is when you, it's like, be a man and suck it up. Yes, that's where it becomes toxic. Are people really saying that?
Speaker 2:anymore yes, Like yeah, yeah, I mean I just don't feel like that's a Dude. Andrew Tate says it on every single time he talks.
Speaker 1:He's an idiot. He is an idiot, but he has millions of people following him.
Speaker 2:He's a serious problem and I won't debate that. But I don't think that, like I think that I don't know I just do give Ben a lot of credit these days that most men aren't thinking like Andrew Tate. I don't think they are, but maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 3:They have to be at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because why are they following? Yeah, that's the thing. He has millions of followers.
Speaker 2:It's scary for adolescents, I'll tell you that that's where it's the most scary to me, yeah, to see adolescent boys thinking that guy's some sort of fucking hero.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Excuse my language, but I. Nothing could make me angrier, because there's nothing further from the truth. That's the worst type of human being you could possibly be. Yeah, right, in this universe. Right, there's no question.
Speaker 4:Definitely not someone we want our children to look up to, for sure.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean, yeah, it's scary to see adolescents just look up to like someone like that, but they feel that they don't have other role models. Why do you think the kids do that? I don't know.
Speaker 4:A lot of kids don't have dads in the picture as well, so they see this guy with millions of followers. They want that quick buck and he's rich and he's famous and he can say whatever he wants and no one really bats an eye. Honestly, Like there's been a few little things he's been arrested and stuff.
Speaker 2:He's been in jail for human trafficking.
Speaker 4:But that's not talked up as much as his other stuff. You see all these clips of all these things anti-feminism things that he's saying and these kids are listening to it and gravitating and be like. I want to be just like him. It's like looking at Gretzky. I was a hockey player. I idolized Gretzky. Can you imagine if it was Andrew Tate instead of Gretsky? It's so easy to fall into that trap and everything's on the digital age. Our kids are glued to their tablets. They're glued to phones.
Speaker 1:People aren't able to monitor exactly.
Speaker 4:And they're so smart they can get through parental locks at the age of seven. I pay my six-year-old my phone. I'm like how do you do this?
Speaker 2:How do you keep packing the pass? My kid found it in a mirror.
Speaker 1:She saw me putting it in and basically guessed the passcode this actually goes to your point about pornography, and my wife and I have had this discussion. She's a teacher, so comes up sometimes Occasionally and I only know my experiences.
Speaker 3:It's unrealistic.
Speaker 1:Well, well, but me growing up, well, no, I'm not, I'm not even there.
Speaker 1:Yet I'm not even talking about I'm not even talking about the porn part yet. I'm talking about my experience of like just growing up as a boy, right, and I know, and she, like her being a female and whatever, she's kind of like, do seven-year-old boys like really care about? Like, yes, they do, yes, they do, I can verify, yes, they do. But the and she's always amazed. She's kind of like do seven-year-old boys like really care about? Like, yes, they do, yes, they do, I can verify, yes, they do. But the and she's always amazed. She's like what, my little grade threes?
Speaker 2:it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, they do. So it's pressure.
Speaker 1:They got probably older siblings and then they older siblings, and you know I was when I was 78 years old.
Speaker 1:I was trying to find the playboy or something like that we used to find in the woods and tree forts with sticks like yes, exactly yeah but here's the difference, though, is like this is the big difference between today and back when I because I was thinking, oh yeah, we used to find that stuff, but I was trying to steal, like the hustler, the playboy, which are still pictures in magazines that are probably freaking half ripped and burnt or whatever versus you can go on porn hub and get literally anything yeah, you can accidentally search something and get literally porn all the time, and that could probably scramble your brain too, of what?
Speaker 2:it does normal and what's what's good and what's not for sure, and it also creates that narrative that you have to be this type of person like there's on Pornhub, there's like the bondage and abuse of power.
Speaker 3:And then, like I seen a like an audio clip of um I'm sleeping with my step mommy, like yeah yeah, that's some fucked up shit like let's just pause and think about that.
Speaker 2:yeah, it is some messed up stuff, like and that's almost a category now.
Speaker 3:Yes, right, yeah, or my step-sibling Sorry.
Speaker 4:That's wrong. Or twins, yeah. Sisters, yeah, what yeah?
Speaker 3:It's not healthy for our young boys or our young girls to have this expectation.
Speaker 2:So in places like Texas they've banned Pornhub, They've made it illegal. Do you think that's a good step for around the world?
Speaker 4:A hundred percent, yeah, and how have they done?
Speaker 2:that? How did they do that?
Speaker 3:They haven't really done that.
Speaker 1:So what they've done is they've blocked, you can get VPNs, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:They block IPs, but you can get around it quite easily. So there's probably tons of people. So trying though, yeah, for sure, the more you try the harder it gets, like you know, the more you make something blanket. If that's you know, if we think this will help correct society, yeah, maybe it's not a bad idea but I think you're onto something yeah, I think that's correct.
Speaker 2:Like your generation was looking at photos and the playboy calendars yeah, um or the scrambled satellite stations like yeah, but I mean that stuff was actually more probably, I would say, dare I say, more romantic or more normal than what it is today.
Speaker 4:Right, it was a little bit more. More glamorized, yeah, more glamorized, except for the Playboy Mansion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, no there was a lot of toxic shit going on there.
Speaker 4:That's for sure, but we didn't no, and were they reading the articles, yeah. Or were they looking at the pictures? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly no. So there's a big difference, I think the accessibility and what's able to get I mean, one of my favorite comedians actually talks about this, about how he talks about his addiction to porn has gotten so much that he's like I need to find the most weird stuff. He's like it needs to have an octopus arm in it or something like that. But weird stuff, he's like it needs to like to have an octopus arm in it or something like that, like that but it's.
Speaker 3:It's funny, but it's also true, it's really scary.
Speaker 1:We're like you get to a point where it's like I need to find the the, the biggest kinkiest thing, because all this stuff that's like way kinky is like normal to me now right. Yeah, you're desensitized. It's all normal to them, right kind?
Speaker 3:of. Yeah, it's like the feet pitchers the what the feet pitchers.
Speaker 4:The feet pitchers. I never understood that yeah okay.
Speaker 2:No, not a fan. Yeah, I never understood that. But yeah, I don't like feet. I'm not a feet person.
Speaker 3:When I see feet I'm kind of like ew. I do have nice feet them.
Speaker 2:I don't like it when people don't have socks on in my house. I'm weird about it. I'm like I wish I had my foot socks on.
Speaker 4:She doesn't wear socks, she's in sandals in the winter.
Speaker 3:There you go Anyway.
Speaker 2:so I guess, I'm the opposite of a foot person.
Speaker 3:I'm not a fan of feet either, but I just I'm not to that OCD level.
Speaker 2:I'm a little OCD, it's okay. She's OCD about other things, yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that's the generation. There's some generational differences that are happening with the accessibility and I can only imagine that with the internet, trafficking and all that is far more easy. I know my wife and I when we had our kid, we decided no pictures at all. Yeah, no pictures. And I've had to write to family to say who took a picture, take that down, things like that. We're at a point now where we don't even really I don't send pictures to anyone unless I truly, truly trust them.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 4:Because once you send it, they have it.
Speaker 1:You can't take that back and you don't know like all the things that we see now like taking superimposed images of your kid, and with AI they can basically make a child porn with your kid by a picture from Facebook and people think like oh, you know what?
Speaker 1:I only have like 800 friends and they're all people I know. Yeah, well, it's the people. You know what? I only have like 800 friends and they're all people I know. Yeah, well, it's the people you know. Most times it's the people you know. It's you know it's always like the uncle or something or whatever that you know did it, the teacher, the whatever, 100%, and it's. That's tough. And even if it's not that they, I got like 2,100 friends on Facebook. Woof, that's a lot of predators. I got sitting there.
Speaker 2:So what's the percentage? What's?
Speaker 1:the chance. It's like 1% to 2% of the people, 1% of the population, yeah, so if you've got 200 friends, I'm a low-key friend person on Facebook. So you've, got two people.
Speaker 2:So there's two bad people out there.
Speaker 1:There's two predators. That's statistically speaking. I'm going to find them tonight. That's statistically speaking. So the fact is you can sit there and say, like, maybe, maybe by some good graces that you actually found, all your friends are the good people, okay.
Speaker 3:But then they share it, but then they could also share it Exactly, and then the next person shares it. Yeah Right, it's never ending.
Speaker 1:So my kid's not online at all. That's wonderful, that's cool, yeah, and we've gone through a lot of the things about whether we're going to allow him to do and all that stuff, and we're also really really big about consent too. Love that Huge, huge, huge, and my family's really supportive of it, right. It's like if an aunt or uncle, even my parents or whatever and they say, hey, give me a hug, and he says, no, it's no. Absolutely it's a no, it's a no.
Speaker 4:It's a full sentence.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. It's like no, you say goodbye, you're polite, like whatever, but if you don't want to give a hug, sure you have that body autonomy, and that's the best thing we feel that we can do for a boy is to make sure he understands that. Consent from start.
Speaker 3:And I think what else is important for him is when he's told no he follows that. It's not just for his body, it's for everyone's body.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's yes and that's what we're hoping he understands. And you know, we give you that grace. You have to also give that grace 100% Right.
Speaker 2:So that's the idea.
Speaker 3:And it's early intervention, that's being proactive rather than reactive. Yeah, I'm talking about our body parts and calling them the way they are.
Speaker 1:It's a penis, it's a vagina. Yep.
Speaker 3:Those are okay words. We don't need to call it a cookie. No, it's very inappropriate, honestly, yeah.
Speaker 1:Honestly yes, honestly, yes. That sounds weird to me.
Speaker 3:It's disturbing. Yeah, same Right.
Speaker 1:So at one point did we get to the point where we just can't say normal words in the English language.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't think we've ever. I didn't grow up talking about a penis or a vagina, no, that wasn't talked about I do die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's always like a hoo-ha or the jj or the birdie or whatever.
Speaker 3:the birds and the bees, yeah um, we don't, we don't call it as it is um and so it becomes foreign yeah it's a not something we talk about and a lot of people think it's like a derogatory word. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, it's part of our anatomy exactly it's, and I think and going into talking about anatomy and consent. If we're talking to our younger children, those that are in foster care, those are that are vulnerable disability, poverty we're teaching them the red signs, like the red flags and of human trafficking of intimate partner violence um.
Speaker 1:We need to know those signs before it becomes an issue so as someone who has essentially seen behind the curtain, like you're, you must view the world so much different than we do probably because, like, not just from an abuse standpoint, but just because of the way you like, you obviously probably see signs more than I would ever see. Uh like, there's probably people and things like that that you pick up on. Uh, yeah I will.
Speaker 3:If I drive by something or see something, I am the first to pull over, I will call 911. I don't hesitate, I will stop. Recently I seen a person yelling and ran across the street and almost I almost hit them, so I immediately stopped. I'm like are you okay? Like do you need to meet me to take you somewhere safe? And they're like no, I I'm um, I'm going here to this location, I'm in a like a transition house and I'm like okay, let's get you there how do we get there, like what are your names?
Speaker 1:and I gave my contact number and said call me anytime, like, and I made sure that person wasn't there before I left them, like they weren't in the vicinity, so I was leaving them safe and I I'm always on alert good for you, how and for yourself, like how, going through the addiction and and knowing people are going through it's like how well, I guess it's a question for both of you really, because how do you manage less like wrestle with having this, like I don't know how to rephrase it, but like, basically, you're, you almost feel like it's like a savior complex or something like that, where you're trying to save everyone and it's hard to do.
Speaker 3:I want to, yeah, I want to save. We're trying, but that's what.
Speaker 1:I mean, though, like how, knowing how I would be, you know, it's like I want to help everyone, and when you can't, it would that I would imagine way on, because more you guys, more than me, because you guys went through things that I haven't gone through, so I can sit there and be like and like la-di-da-di-da, like I'd like to help people, versus you know what that person's going to go through tomorrow if you don't help them today.
Speaker 3:I think it's. It is survivor led. It is we're looking at at in a different lens. We're not looking at the lens that someone has an experience, so we see it in a different frame. If we're helping one person, that's enough for us. Obviously we want to help as many as we possibly can, but we help that one person it leads to another person and it's planting that seed and we use honesty.
Speaker 4:We're compassionate. I tell them really how it is. We call people out on their shit. We're like man, you need to get it together. Yeah, you need to be able to do this. If you can't, let us know so we can support you in that. And at the end of the day, it's up to that person whether they want the help or not, but we let them know. It's 100 up to you. Yeah, it won't hurt our feelings. We will and we are here if you do decide at some point that you need the help.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and so you would really know, as being a former addict, that, like people who are living in that attic.
Speaker 3:She is an addict.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, recovering addict.
Speaker 4:You're always an addict. One's an addict, fair enough, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's one of those things where you would know that you have to be firm with them right. Yeah, an addict will lie, cheat and steal to get what they want right they need to they have. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And letting them know and letting them know my story. I don't shy away from sharing my story. I let people know where I come from and there is an example of resiliency and change my story. I let people know where I come from and that there is an example of resiliency and change. You don't always need to be in that life. I did some pretty fucking shitty things. I was lucky to never get caught, as many of us are. I think many of us have done things that we could have went to jail for, whether it be petty theft or something silly. I'm very firm on that, and so there's no like I'm not better than you. You're not better than me right.
Speaker 2:We're on the same page, all the same people, and we're all human beings.
Speaker 2:We make mistakes, and just because you make a mistake doesn't mean that that's the mistake, that for your life right you can change I love that this duetang is packed, packed with great stuff, like enough stuff that I would love to put all of this on our website for you folks, um and there. So hopefully, when this episode comes out, you can send me a, a uh word file or whatever they call pdf. Yeah, I'll put this on there, tons of great stuff. Um, you know, I wanted to go over kind of the conclusion page, the last page, and I really want to get into our 10 questions right.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna I'm going to just kind of start these off and you're going to help me out with the end of them, okay?
Speaker 1:oh great, making a bit of fun I don't want to do all the talking.
Speaker 2:I'm far too lazy.
Speaker 3:Empathy and education oh um, empathy comes from a place of compassion, so if you're not showing empathy to someone that is struggling, don't bother talking.
Speaker 2:Just keep walking. Normalize these conversations about human trafficking.
Speaker 3:Yes, and education is power. If we're not talking about it, we're not making a change. Listening to survivors that's where the power comes from. That's where the education comes from and being part of the conversation. Like you, men, right now you're talking about your emotions and your assessments, and that's not common. That's not something we see.
Speaker 2:I know we're uncommon dudes, but for real.
Speaker 4:this shows help real though this show is help.
Speaker 2:This show is a form of our therapy.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, really, if you want some good therapy, sometimes, gentlemen out there, start a podcast. Right, because start talking to people and having honest conversations and just put your real self out there. Right, a hundred and ten percent, because you will be so surprised by the conversations you have if you're just yourself and honest and real right and that's why I love this conversation, guys. So thank you, yeah, um you, wendy no no coffee support solutions. What would you say about support solutions for your organization, for organizations that do what you guys do? What can?
Speaker 4:we do to help talk to people, talk about it. Like jackson said, get the word out there. Um. Be supportive. Um, let them know, call them out on their shit. Be real. Um donate yeah, donate to organizations. Um, make a difference. Um. And you making that phone call saying, I think my neighbor. There's some really weird things happening. She's leaving at night with some older men. She's coming back with feeling almost drugged up in the morning when I'm going out to have a call. There's a tips line that you can call and you can give them the tips and they will reach out and they will investigate and see if anything comes from it.
Speaker 1:On that. Is there any quick tips that you can give people that might not be so obvious that people could look out for?
Speaker 3:Multiple cell phones, gifts, unknown gifts, amount of money, isolation, not talking to their family. Another one is like if I'm with someone and I'm not able to communicate for myself and I'm looking for your direction, or you're often seeing me with someone and I don't have control, those, no eye contact, no eye contact.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:Feeling like a shell of a person, like it's. It takes everything out of you. When you're trafficked, you're felt like you're nothing. You're worse than the mud on the street, like you're nothing, and you're worse than the mud on the street like you're nothing, um, and you're not valuable probably feel pretty shitty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think rock bottom's losing, you know like a like getting laid off or something, but this is probably far worse of a feeling I can only imagine important to drive that human trafficking.
Speaker 3:You can be sold multiple times a day right so I, if I was to purchase a drug? That's one sale, that's it.
Speaker 4:I'm like I can come back, but I can.
Speaker 3:I can be sold multiple times a day and they can make up to $280 an hour for my service, even though I'm providing it and they're just getting that money. So, it's an it's a never dying situation.
Speaker 2:Insane. So next word advocate. Did I say that word right, Matt? Advocate, Pronounce it right.
Speaker 3:Advocacy. Non-for-profits are important. Ngos are so vitally important to our community. Listening to the members of the community is important Listening to someone's story and advocating for them and believing them taking their word. And I know some people lie and I get that, but there's a lot of us that aren't and a lot of us are being misunderstood. So advocate for them. Recognize the signs for our social workers, rather than saying, well, they're just being behavioral. They're just acting out. Where's that coming from? Look at a different lens, take a different approach.
Speaker 2:Like you do with your kid. I mean eventually, you're like why are they acting this way?
Speaker 3:every time we got to go to piano class.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, or whatever. Maybe there's something different going on up there and I think.
Speaker 3:Advocating for those that are less fortunate, like vulnerable populations, are refugees, are people that don't have status.
Speaker 1:Are we seeing some sort of an increase in people who are newcomers to Canada? There's some statistics in this book about that actually yeah, like minorities were disproportionately affected, which?
Speaker 4:is pretty gross On the Indigenous.
Speaker 2:African.
Speaker 4:Nova Scotians African.
Speaker 2:Nova Scotians.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the missing and murdered Indigenous women. I'm assuming that's obviously a large Very much tied into trafficking.
Speaker 2:Traffic? I would imagine so. Yes, 91% of victims know their trafficker.
Speaker 3:Yes, and 34% of them are intimate partner violence.
Speaker 4:And it's 54% 34%, 34%. She knows it.
Speaker 2:She's got. She knows the book I'm looking at the numbers, she's not lying and it takes time.
Speaker 4:Like people think that you're just taken off the street and you're trafficked the next day. It can take years of building that relationship between the trafficker and the survivor in order for them to trust them enough to traffic them. They get to know all your dirty little secrets and they hold those over your head, they blackmail you with that they take images of you.
Speaker 1:Some of them we see online, right yeah, like where it's like you know, kids they'll whatever they screw up.
Speaker 3:Well, the ones that are like taking intimate photos of themselves and then they're committing suicide because the person that's asking for money, they don't have the money, just happen. I'm going to send it to your parents. I'm going to send it to your teachers. I've heard that.
Speaker 1:I read a story of the U? S where they just was like $3,000 if you don't send it to me in 45 minutes and that kid in 45 minutes went from talking to his mother.
Speaker 3:At one point she had to dust off the room to him shooting himself in the head we have a situation in Alberta that just happened in his bedroom he hung himself and the parents have a campaign going right now to educate the community and that leads me to this Having a kid.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's terrifying.
Speaker 2:One more point in this. I mean that leads me from all that is watch for red flags and don't ignore your gut, right? I mean that's a statement you have in here. That's really powerful.
Speaker 4:And trust your gut. Your gut is rarely wrong, and if it is wrong at least you tried yeah. Like it would feel worse if you didn't trust your gut and something happened than trusting your gut and nothing coming of it at least at least they know they're aware.
Speaker 3:Um, they can know about the signs and everything from that point, right so, and I think what's also important for the listeners to know is nova scotia is the highest rate of human trafficking in Canada. So the national rates is 1.4 per 100,000 people. Wow, nova Scotia is 8.6. What?
Speaker 1:Oh, no way. I thought you were giving me the national number was the one point 1.4. So it's basically 8.6. Eight and a half people for every 100,000?.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:See, this is what I mean by when you see behind the curtain is how you see the world differently, because I'm sure there's people that you know that are involved in this stuff. Absolutely that it would be. Ugh, I don't know. I think for me, I almost wouldn't want to see behind that curtain because I think I would have a hard time not turning into Batman.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's what we're trying to become. We are Batman, you guys are Batman, essentially, and the next closest province to Nova Scotia with the highest rate is Ontario. It's 2.6. That's crazy gap. Crazy gap. And you think they have Toronto, they have Ottawa, the population density too.
Speaker 2:There's a crazy variable between the two is like there's a crazy variable.
Speaker 3:I think we're for the population of where the smallest population is 2.4. Yeah For all of Nova Scotia for the population.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Ontario makes up all that and we're higher than Ontario.
Speaker 4:They have cities bigger than our province, so yeah, I mean your closing message here.
Speaker 2:I mean, human trafficking is not a fairway problem, it's here. It's in our towns, our neighborhoods, sometimes hidden in plain sight. The more we learn, the more we can build a community where no one falls through the cracks. That's powerful shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good yeah.
Speaker 2:Cheers to you guys. Everything you guys do is incredibly awesome. We're going to get into some dumb questions here now.
Speaker 1:Now we lighten things up a little bit.
Speaker 2:We're going to try to lighten things up a bit. But, guys, if you're listening to this show still, we're going to put a special on. Put everything in this duotang. We'll be on our website and I'll stop saying the word duotang now. I promise.
Speaker 3:It's purple Purple duotang. It's purple, Cool Well.
Speaker 2:I mean I thank you guys so much for going on.
Speaker 3:You can take this oh okay, cool, all right, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, I could just probably copy that with the picture thing and copy.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's just easier for me to send it to you or just send it to us, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, cool, all right.
Speaker 1:Getting into the next bit here now.
Speaker 2:We're going to find our 10 questions. I got to read is so stupid and light. This will be a complete palate cleanse from everything we've asked. Some of these are actually back related to what you're here for today, though, too, so it's a bit of a mix.
Speaker 1:But not the first question. Why don't you ask the first question? So it's for Wendy. We're throwing this up to you. This is a law ball. Which is the better fast food choice, Wendy's or Dairy Queen?
Speaker 4:Do you only say that because my name is Wendy?
Speaker 1:Totally, totally where the fish came from Dairy Queen. Oh.
Speaker 3:Oh, she used to work for McDonald's and she used to be told your name is not actually Wendy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So then I'd lie and say my last name is McDonald's and then I worked at Wendy's and they're like your name's not really Wendy. It was a vicious cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just disagree. Bacon eater's the best. That's the fighting word. I like that Dairy Queen comma where you get the ice cream with the meal. I just love ice cream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you get a sundae with your burger and your fries. It's just a good time.
Speaker 3:Full course meal. I like the toss and sauce chicken.
Speaker 2:Toss and sauce chicken strips Not bad.
Speaker 1:Dairy Queen does have the best chicken strips. Chicken strips Not bad. Dairy Queen does have the best chicken strips. That's true. I will give you that.
Speaker 2:Okay, jacqueline, what is one goal or New Year's resolution that you've made to yourself but had a hard time committing to?
Speaker 3:Quitting smoking.
Speaker 2:You're still smoking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, god, fucking sucks God.
Speaker 1:He struggles. He gave up like five years ago and he's still struggling.
Speaker 2:I got my five year casino chip, or whatever you call it. Yeah, for quitting smoking. I gave it up. I had. I was addicted to lozenges for two years after I quit smoking like the lozenges.
Speaker 1:And now it's mint.
Speaker 2:And now you probably see me take some during this episode.
Speaker 1:Yes, I did, just regular peppermints. He goes to the dollar store and buys like Costco, like versions of mints.
Speaker 4:It's better than smoking.
Speaker 1:And cheaper.
Speaker 4:I'm sure it's way cheaper. I'm sure his dentist loves it.
Speaker 1:His dentist does not approve.
Speaker 2:I've already been lectured a few times.
Speaker 1:Alright, question number three. So, Wendy, if the Earth was flat, what do you think would happen if you reached the edge and kept going?
Speaker 3:The Earth is flat, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Are we for real? Come on, please don't lose all credibility. You've done so well. I'm just kidding, no, I know, it's just easier.
Speaker 4:The Earth is not flat so I can't even fathom what the answer is. I think fall off into deep space.
Speaker 2:There you go. It's an imagination question. There'll be a shark.
Speaker 3:There'll be a shark, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, there'll be a shark off the edge in deep space, space, sharks Space sharks, that sounds pretty dope.
Speaker 4:I'm terrified and I don't know why I moved to a province that has sharks.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Space sharks. That's a movie.
Speaker 2:Yep there you go All right Over to you with number four. Again, very stupid question. If these toys came to life, what would win? Okay, who would win a fight between the original Barbie doll versus an original Cabbage Patch kid, cabbage Patch?
Speaker 3:Cabbage Patch would ruin Barbie. Yeah, do you see those muscles on that doll? Yeah, it's like the index, like the little sausage roll arms.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, they tear stuff up. They've seen some shit yeah their eyes. And They've seen some shit yeah their eyes and they're way more intimidating looking.
Speaker 4:Their asses are tattooed. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:They, 100%. They were like the dolls that went to Vietnam and came back. Yes, 100%.
Speaker 2:You took us to this question already. Number five, that's me. Yeah, what are you doing? Sorry, that was still my question.
Speaker 1:Wendy over here.
Speaker 4:So what's one thing that people could do to get a mental health check? Reach out. There are lots of tests you can do online, but reach out to a not-for-profit organization. Reach out to mental health and addictions. Do what you can. It is important to keep your mental health in check, and do it sooner than later. If you start to feel like you're getting a little bit more irritable, a little bit more annoyed when you come home, that's the time to check it out. It's not the time when you just can't take it anymore.
Speaker 2:Take responsibility and do it soon, exactly Before it's too late, because then you might be slipping, you might be losing it. Exactly.
Speaker 3:I also think it's important to say you're not alone. The person that you're calling also struggled at some point when the helping field doesn't just help people because they like it.
Speaker 4:We don't we're not paid properly.
Speaker 3:Um, so we're we're not being paid right now, so, uh, I think that speaks volume.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you're not alone and there's people that want to help you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, number six how can you see the signs of addiction in yourselves and others?
Speaker 3:this would be a better question we always joke because we can tell what people are on yeah, we can tell by their eyes, their behavior which one yeah their reactions, their bodies, body responses, financial trouble, lack of communication, isolation, erratic behavior, pan-handling and some of these symptoms were the same for human trafficking.
Speaker 2:How do I identify signs On isolation?
Speaker 1:Isolation, yeah, isolation yeah centers were the same for human trafficking how do I identify signs On isolation? All right, so question number seven. This is for everybody. Anyone can answer this one or? Both technically yes. So what was your most favorite movie, TV show, movie and book?
Speaker 2:The X-Files. No, no, no, no, it was just pick one. Oh okay, you didn't write that very well. You go for it if you just got one you wanted to pick. I wish this is an easy question.
Speaker 4:I always loved the X-Files. Again, I'm I was born in the 80s love.
Speaker 2:David Duchovny first.
Speaker 4:Loved David Duchovny First heartthrob.
Speaker 2:Loved Scully.
Speaker 4:Fair, I didn't like Scully. They got in a relationship and that was kind of the end of the show for me as a child. But I can remember going home and putting on Fox on Friday nights, being able to stay up past my bedtime to watch the X-Files, and it was very much like Mulder was someone who was not part of the FBI. He was very isolated. He was kind of put down into the basement because he had these weird thoughts and feelings and he said he was abducted and his sister was abducted.
Speaker 1:You'll have to go back and check our episode with David Coveney no the paranormal investigator we had on Elliot Van Dusen.
Speaker 2:Elliot Van Dusen.
Speaker 1:He was an RCMP officer and then took his RCMP training to invest he's the real life.
Speaker 2:Mulder real deal right here in the Maritimes, right here nice time we had a fun chat with him. He's really cool. Yeah, that's awesome so you have.
Speaker 1:You have the list apparently so I don't know everything.
Speaker 3:my favorite show would be Law Order, special Victims Unit, olivia Benson.
Speaker 1:Okay, fair enough.
Speaker 3:Mariska.
Speaker 2:Hardigan Way to decompress Nod Fucking amazing woman.
Speaker 3:I love her. My all-time movie is Save the Last Dance.
Speaker 2:Julia Stiles Okay, it's a tough choice, those dancing. I don't think that dancing was great.
Speaker 3:I got to be real with you when you see her dancing. It's kind of Her little nose hip her hit to her nose when Sean comes in. That's like.
Speaker 2:You like that? I love that. Oh man, it's powerful. We're not on the same plane there.
Speaker 4:I've never even seen that movie, I've seen that movie.
Speaker 3:I didn't watch it. My favorite book would have to be the Hunger Games.
Speaker 2:Okay, I okay, I saw the movie.
Speaker 3:I love the movie, you should read the book.
Speaker 2:The book is better, the book's better yeah.
Speaker 3:You should never watch the movie. I'm going to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:I'm never going to read the book why I hate reading fiction.
Speaker 4:I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate reading fiction I do.
Speaker 2:Only books I read are non-fiction. I like biographies, yeah, but yeah, I'm gonna try to read a fiction book this year. It's been a while. I'm a big non-fiction guy but I the what I have right now to read next. It's pretty nerdy, but it's. It's like star wars after the last jedi. It's like what happened, like what happened to luke, because because they made that movie and then all of a sudden luke was just this old guy in a hill drinking like the breast milk of some weird animal, yeah, and you're like what the heck happened to Luke? Like he was, he was, he went out. He went out as a boss and I want to know. So I'm going to read that. That's going to be my only fiction book this year. The rest will be nonfiction.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you asked about singers, but Celine Dion she's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:No, well, I'm going to tell you anyways, she is my number one. You know what I'm like. I go back and forth Like is it Celine or is it Whitney? That's the goat.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:I'm like back and forth.
Speaker 3:Whitney can't sing in French.
Speaker 2:Whitney has a wicked voice, okay.
Speaker 1:Is that a criteria? I can, be like Celine can't sing in German.
Speaker 2:I'm on team Whitney. Her voice is crazy.
Speaker 3:We are in a province and we're in Canada that we have two languages. I understand that that should be recognized. My wife's from Quebec. Good.
Speaker 1:Her favorite is lean. Good it should be, but ear test I'm kind of like I don't know no, or pink.
Speaker 3:Pink is another option.
Speaker 2:She's pretty awesome. She's pretty awesome. Pink's cool.
Speaker 1:She's awesome, she's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:All right, ready for the last question, guys. So this is a question for each of you again what's one piece of advice you were given that you'd like to pass on to others? If you've given this advice from anyone at any point in your life, you don't have to say who that person is.
Speaker 4:Just the advice you were given and you thought it was like that was impactful. You've internalized it or whatever. Life doesn't always need to be like this. It doesn't always need to be this hard. You can always change. Um, you don't have to stay in the same patterns, um, people change at the end of the day and that's okay yeah, people change at the end of the day, that's okay.
Speaker 3:I like that yeah, I like that's cool. Yeah, I think the most impactful thing came from my foster child. He said when we say consequences, that sends a signal to your brain that it's immediate consequence, like you're in trouble, you've done something wrong it's a negative thing. It's a negative aspect rather than like natural logical consequences. Rather they're negative or positive. Um so he said he's like mom. Can you not call it a consequence? Can you call it a modification to our day?
Speaker 1:so how old?
Speaker 3:is he. He is 16 now.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And we're about to adopt him.
Speaker 2:Oh awesome, oh, congratulations, thank you, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Uh, so everything in our life is a monica modification to our day. So, if it's we're doing a negative or a positive, or something just needs to be shifted.
Speaker 2:That's very intelligent, very advanced thinking. I actually like that Future CEO up in there.
Speaker 3:There you go. He's going to be something.
Speaker 4:Yeah Cool, he's a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 3:You're telling me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome, that's great advice. I love that yeah.
Speaker 3:So modification to our day, rather than everything, has to be a negative.
Speaker 2:So what's the website Together we?
Speaker 3:No Thriving Together, I told you.
Speaker 2:I got something wrong over and over again. Thrivingtogether.
Speaker 4:It's spelled T-W-O.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:We'll have it on the fire.
Speaker 3:And we're on Facebook.
Speaker 2:You're on Facebook Cool.
Speaker 3:And we're 24 hours. So when I say 24 hours like we're by phone, you can call us anytime, and then we're also open holidays.
Speaker 2:Please, if you help these guys out, let us know, I mean, if you donate, if you do anything to support them too. This is so cool. You guys are awesome. I think you guys are real warriors, real Batmans, yeah, yeah, or Batwomens.
Speaker 1:Okay, cheers.
Speaker 2:Cheers, Great show guys Awesome.
Speaker 4:Bye.
