Reflections of Retired Councillor Stephen Adams And His Love For Spryfield

Stephen Adams, represented Spryfield and surrounding communities for 29 years on Halifax City Council. In this episode Adams opens up about the realities of political life and his transition to advocating for smarter development solutions.

Adams shares powerful stories about defending Spryfield's reputation against media bias, confronting critics with actual crime statistics that contradicted popular perceptions. "I didn't like the way we were being treated," Adams explains, recounting how he transformed negative stereotypes through persistent advocacy and community pride. 

The conversation reveals fascinating insights into council dynamics and political survival. Now serving as Executive Director of the Urban Development Institute, Adams brings his political experience to addressing Halifax's housing crisis from the development side. He candidly discusses regulatory challenges preventing faster housing creation, including costly requirements for EV charging stations in all new parking spaces and complex approval processes that delay critical projects. His balanced perspective comes from seeing both sides of development debates—understanding community concerns while recognizing the urgent need for housing solutions.

Whether you're interested in local politics, community development, or Halifax's housing challenges, Adams' reflections offer invaluable perspective. Listen and discover why effective leadership often means making unpopular decisions, confronting misconceptions with facts, and maintaining unwavering commitment to the communities you serve.

Your Dream Home Does Not Have to Be Just A Dream. Today's show is brought to you by Kimia Nejat of Exit Reality Metro. Kimia is the realtor who knows how to get things done. Buying or Selling? Go to afternoonpint.ca/kimia and we will set up an introduction

Does Your Business Need a Boost With Foot traffic? Hosts for An Event? Or Even Actors For A Production? Or the Production itself? Go to https://www.afternoonpint.ca/services and see some of the services that the Afternoon Pint team offers. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:15

Cheers. Welcome to the Afternoon Pint. I'm Mike Dobin, I am Matt Conrad, and who do we have with us today? Stephen Adams.

Speaker 3 0:21

Stephen Adams.

Speaker 1 0:22

Who is Stephen Adams?

Speaker 3 0:25

Some guy just outside there talking to people and you guys asked me if I could talk.

Speaker 2 0:29

Yeah, our guest didn't show up today, so we just saw this guy standing on the street now.

Speaker 3 0:32

And there's four other guys. You asked and they refused, so I'm your guy.

Speaker 1 0:40

I think you're a pretty good catch. So, executive director of UDI 30 years, 29 years as a counselor here in Halifax 29. 29. And 29 years as a pharmaceutical rep as well. Is that right? 27., 27.

Speaker 3 0:48

Okay, cool. So 22 of the years I was doing both Okay cool.

Speaker 1 0:54

This is your second time on this show Technically yeah, technically, this is your second time on this show Technically yeah, technically, but the first time you would have only heard that if you had the Ideal Home Show. So I think a lot more people are going to get to hear you this time around. So thanks for coming back.

Speaker 2 1:04

Sure.

Speaker 3 1:04

My pleasure.

Speaker 2 1:05

Yeah, happy to have you. I've known Steve a long time. Steve actually went to high school with like half of my family aunts and uncles and my parents.

Speaker 3 1:13

And I played hockey and ball with your dad and uncles, that's right they were good athletes.

Speaker 2 1:19

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:21

Oh, dad and his brothers were yeah, they're pretty good athletes, it's true.

Speaker 2 1:25

Steve, we know, you know you were up until just this year. You were still quite involved with the hockey community. Well, I still am.

Speaker 3 1:31

Yeah, you're still involved. I still am.

Speaker 2 1:32

You kind of relinquished ownership of the.

Speaker 3 1:40

Yeah, what I did, you know 14 years started from scratch and this fellow was interested and I said you know, 14 years is a long time, so I transferred the ownership of the team, but I'm still involved in a managerial position and I still love it. Yeah, I was at the rink Sunday night. You had a rebrand. That was great. Yeah, yeah, that's right, and that's one of the logos we had played around with for a couple of years just on the website, right.

Speaker 3 2:03

So the tack with the shark and District 11, 11 on the tape and 11 teeth at the shark's mouth. So it's kind of neat. And I'm still involved. Like I told people, you won't know that I'm no longer the owner, right?

Speaker 2 2:19

Yeah.

Speaker 3 2:19

And, like I told people, you won't know that I'm no longer the owner, right yeah, and people are saying you know? They thought I sold it. I didn't. I was offered three years ago. I was offered $20,000 for the team.

Speaker 2 2:28

Okay.

Speaker 3 2:29

And I said no Because the fellow who wanted it didn't want it for the right reasons. Okay, right, he had a young fellow and a friend of his wanted to play. Yeah, so he wanted to buy a team. Yeah, they couldn't play dead, they're not good enough, right? So I'm not going to compromise the team. No, that's fair For a couple of dollars.

Speaker 2 2:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I transferred it over to him.

Speaker 3 2:55

He's happy and done some good recruiting. Yeah, the team will be stronger than last year's team. Oh good, yeah, incredible last year's team was 25 and three yeah, and one of those losses was a forfeit, so the team was strong. Yeah, yeah, um, just didn't do it in the playoffs yeah, that's right, yeah, that's right, yeah, you know you go 25, you go 25-3, and then you know, in the playoffs you end up going 3-5.

Speaker 2 3:22

Yeah, that's tough.

Speaker 3 3:23

Yeah, that's bad.

Speaker 2 3:24

That's very Leafs energy there, oh.

Speaker 1 3:27

I tell you yeah, oh yeah, ouch. Yeah, those sick burns. You enjoy the rest of your day, guys.

Speaker 2 3:35

You know I like the Leafs.

Speaker 3 3:37

You know they talk about Marner.

Speaker 2 3:38

Well, you're a Rangers fan.

Speaker 3 3:39

Yeah, that's right, I'm a Cubs fan too. Yeah, worse. So they talk about Marner and Matthews and all of this stuff. They don't show up in the playoffs, but if you think about it, they're the reason they get to the playoffs. Oh, that's true, right, they just need a little extra. They should have gotten Brad. That would have been awesome. As soon as Brad went to the Panthers I texted his brother and said they will reap me.

Speaker 2 4:03

Yeah, oh yeah. Well, I mean, Florida was built. I mean they won it last year. Anyway, they were a playoff-built team and Brad's exactly the type of player that the Leafs need. They have all the skill and the finesse that they need. The goaltending's actually pretty good. They just needed a player like Brad. They need an edge. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 4:20

Love him or hate him.

Speaker 2 4:22

Brad's an edge. You hate him when he's not playing. I remember I went to Brad's I think it was his dad's home or maybe it was Brad's home, I don't know for insurance type stuff and I went there and I met with his dad there. Yeah, kevin's a great guy and he gave me a tour of the house and everything and they have like this spot.

Speaker 1 4:41

Actually it's all by you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 4:43

So we were out there and gave me a tour of the place and everything. I saw the big fire pit and they had Brad's chair painted with his jersey and all that stuff. They're going to repaint that now, though, but I said to Kevin I was like I hate your son though, and he was like, excuse me. I was like I'm a Leafs fan and Boston has upset my seriously upset my team too many times and said I can't like your son. I'm sorry, would I like to have him on my team though.

Speaker 3 5:08

Absolutely, and they got him for a song, right.

Early Political Career and Defending Spryfield

Speaker 2 5:12

Oh crazy, they thought it would be a rental but fooled them, right, uh, yeah, yeah, exactly, so, yeah, so, no, that's good. So, yeah, so steve's a big sports guy. But, um, we can kind of rewind a little bit. Uh, you know, back to, uh, where this thing all kind of started is. Like you, uh, you dove right into politics fairly early, like you were in your, was it, mid-20s I was 30, 30, I thought okay, I was 30, and what were you doing just before?

Speaker 1 5:38

politics? But what was the jump?

Speaker 3 5:39

like I was in pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 1 5:40

I started.

Speaker 3 5:41

I was in pharmaceutical industry when I was 26 years old.

Speaker 1 5:46

Yep, okay.

Speaker 3 5:46

And I started November 3rd that year and in October that year I graduated from Dow with a second degree in commerce. Okay so, and then you know, I'll never forget, I went to a funeral on the weekend and a fellow there, Ronnie Ryan, great fellow, coached his son in hockey, Coached a lot of kids in Spryfield, and it was in March. And he calls me on Sunday morning and says, Steve, we've been, a bunch of us have been talking and we think you should run for alderman. And I always said I just wanted to sign. It sounds a little hokey, but I wanted to sign to say it's time, it was time.

Speaker 1 6:30

Yeah, and that's a long time holding a position 30 years. That's a volatile position because obviously there's votes, you know I mean you get voted out at any time. What was the secret sauce you think that got you to stick around all that time?

Speaker 3 6:42

So there's a few reasons. One I remember the first time at Malgamation.

Speaker 1 6:49

Yeah.

Speaker 3 6:50

And the first door I went to was in Williamswood. I remember walking down a lane it was probably a 50-foot lane Walk up. It was 1 o'clock on a Sunday afternoon knocking on the door. Guy comes to the door and says I said hi there, my name's Steven Adams. Yeah, I know who you are.

Speaker 3 7:07

Oh boy, this is not good, yeah. And I said look, I'd just like to leave you a bit of information if I could. I said he says yeah, I don't need it, okay. So I said well, I appreciate your time, thank you. And he says hang on a second, okay. So I said what can I do for you?

Speaker 3 7:25

He says, well, I don't like what's going on with the taxi industry, I don't like what you did with the city manager and I don't like what's going on at Bears Lake. I said, well, look, I really appreciate you letting me know. Yeah. I said, well, look, I really appreciate you letting me know. Yeah, and I took a step. You can't see this on radio, but I took a step and turned to the main road, to Old Stamford Road, and he goes one other thing, and I remember I put my eyes up to the sky, turned around, said yes, sir. He says I want the two biggest signs you have. I said pardon. He says I want one there and one there. He says I want one there and one there. He says I don't always agree with you, but I don't have to read your mind, oh there you go, and that was important, but the other two call people back, send them an email, at least contact them.

Speaker 3 8:09

Cecil Wright asked me the same question. One thing I said is never hold a grudge.

Speaker 2 8:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3 8:17

Never hold a grudge and always take the high road, because there's far less traffic there.

Speaker 2 8:21

Yeah, early on you were a defender of Spryfield. I remember you really going to bat against the media defending Spryfield, so I'm sure that also kind of garnered some pride, some civic pride that's why I started.

Speaker 3 8:36

That's why I got involved Going to Dow in the mornings. It was an election. I think it was 1980. You see all the signs on the way in on the computer and I said someday I'm gonna do this.

Speaker 3 8:46

There's someday not today, but someday and then ronnie called me and here we go yeah, because I didn't like the way sprafio was portrayed in the media. I didn't like the way we were being treated. Yeah, and it was unfair and it was all reputation, like if something good happened, it was Halifax, if something bad happened, it was Spryfield and the media. And I'll tell the truth to them, they misinterpreted police reports, shall we say. Crime happened in Spryfield when it was Cowie Hill, one of the really bizarre ones. I was in Toronto and I had the online newspaper and the headline was drug bust in Dartmouth and Spryfield, right, okay. So I checked and it wasn't Spryfield, it was in Klein Heights or Army Hill, whatever.

Speaker 2 9:36

Yeah.

Speaker 3 9:37

And I called the reporter and said man, you need a map or a geography lesson because that's wrong, right? So he said, well, let me check. And he did so. The headline next was Doug Rustin, dartmouth and Halifax Right. So just the inherent bias. And one reporter, andrew McDonald we've become friends over this item when he praised David Graham and Peter Pauly for developing in an undesirable part of HRM. Well, I lost my marbles. Yeah, called him and I said you know, we should have a little talk. Yeah, sure, I admire him. Right, because he was straight up.

Speaker 3 10:15

So we took a drive all around Spryfield, yeah, every area, every corner, one end to the other. And then what I did? I took the police reports for the crime stats and I had six different communities. So there's a South End, there was Aranco of Ketch Harbor, there was Spryfield, fairview, dartmouth, north, and I think I said South End, right, yeah, yeah, and the North End. So I put them in front of them, covered the communities, right? I said which community would you rather live in? And they were break-and-enters, assaults, drug, drug busts, speeding and all those other. There were six different categories. Well, there, I said you're certain. Yeah, I said you just picked Spryfield over the South End, wow. Then he said well, that's because of the students and everything I said. I don't think we're looking at why. I think we're looking at actual measurable facts. Yeah, and the fact is is that five out of six categories it was better in Spryfield than in the south end of Halifax. You know where the really nice places are Exactly.

Speaker 1 11:25

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 11:25

He couldn't believe it. From that point on, he became one of our biggest supporters, one of our biggest cheerleaders.

Speaker 1 11:30

Coming from Dartmouth to Halifax. It was a lot of a similar stigma.

Speaker 2 11:40

Like people would think Dartmouth was a terrible place. Well, I mean hey, hey, hey, but it does have a nice view of Halifax. That's important, poor Gloria, I used to tell her that, oh, gloria, I can understand the feeling, that sentiment.

Speaker 1 11:47

It's like your neighborhood is your, the people you've grown up with, is the environment around them. I mean, I've always felt safe in Dartmouth, yeah.

Speaker 3 11:54

Right, yeah, me too, like I, me too, like I never locked my doors, never locked my shed. And it was funny. There was a class from St Mary's came to the Williams Surprise Center and wanted to talk about politics and things like that. And you know, any opportunity to promote the community it would be great. And every class has one. There's one guy, there's always that guy and we were just talking again about the prime stats and about things that were going on and he said, well, it's not safe out here, it's dangerous. I said why do you say that? Well, don't you read the papers? Yeah, but why do you say that? And he started going on about how bad it was and all this other stuff. I said, well, if you look at the crime stats, they're lower than most other parts of HRM not just Halifax, but HRM. He says, well, people are afraid to report crime out here. I said, okay, right. So I said, consider something like miles per gallon. They're never accurate but, they're relative.

Speaker 3 12:54

And I said a lot of police officers live out here. Why would they live in a bad area? Well, they have guns, true, but why lot of police officers live out here? Why would they live in a bad area? Well, they have guns, true, but why would retired police officers live out here? Yeah Right, if it's so dangerous? Yeah yeah, and that shut them down, right, but you know, one person at a time to remove the stigma. And you know, I still say we were doing well. It's a beautiful community.

Speaker 2 13:22

Well, I mean, and John Buchanan is from Spryfield and you know he was the premier and senator and all that, like it was. You know it is a bizarre thing. I mean, I think the stigma of the negative of Spryfield came between. Obviously, you know, at one point we had some family wars of drugs and things like that at some point in time, but the I think that that must like if, in your experience, that must be where this came from. Cause, I mean, other than that, like I've never, really I've never experienced anything. I mean I grew up in Heron Cove, slash, spryfield kind of thing, right yeah, and I've never experienced anything like bad really Like.

Speaker 2 14:01

you know all the time like high school some stuff, whatever right. But I mean I would walk in Spryfield at 2 am.

Speaker 3 14:08

And I wouldn't think twice. I have. I have no-transcript, but yeah, it's a shame that people are still can't go past the rotary or all these other things. It's really ridiculous.

Speaker 2 14:28

Yeah, no, exactly I mean. That being said, though, the area's changing quite a bit.

Speaker 3 14:32

It's growing, it's genderfying, and things like that, but it still has that great spirit. You know we still have danny slade up there waving everybody's beautiful right so, and you know. The other thing is that if someone needs help, if there's a issue like a family's gone through a tragedy or something, you know I would not, I would put our community against any in the province. Yeah, to help people with no, no, uh, expectation of anything in return.

Speaker 2 15:26

I mean, I could be you know, someone can correct me on this, but I believe at least. When I was going there, I heard that JL Ilsley was the school that gave the highest number of bursaries than any other high school in the province.

Speaker 3 15:38

Indeed, per student. Yeah, Like hundreds thousands of dollars right.

The Reality of Life as a City Councillor

Speaker 3 15:43

And I got to tell you they brought me back one time for the graduation. This is a funny story. So I prepared a speech for the kids right, and basically said look, you know, treat yourself, treat others with respect, but treat yourself with respect. Treat others with respect, but treat yourself with respect. Whatever you choose to do whether it's, you know, vocational school back then it was or you want to get a job or go to university or whatever it is do the very best you can and if you're going to take a year off, make use of that year. Do something you want to do and may not be able to do it later on in life. So then I said I'm going to ask you guys some questions. Don't worry, it's not a test. I said what's the capital of Guam? It's Agana, right, agana. I said how many stomachs are there in a shark? It was four. And they're looking at me.

Speaker 3 16:35

I said you know, these are these questions that teachers always ask. But what am I going to use that for? I said what about? You know you can't say snuck, it's sneaked. And they nod their heads a little 2X plus 3Y equals 15. And they're nodding their heads up and down. We always wonder, why were we asked this? Why do we have to learn this stuff? And they're shaking their heads. They get it right. So I'm going to tell you something. I graduated high school 20 years ago. That's the first time I ever used any of that crap. Mike Nee, the principal, nearly died laughing. And Terry Quinlan, the vice principal she nearly fell over. They were mortified, but they loved it.

Speaker 2 17:13

Well exactly, it's a way to just relate to the youth. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, really, you've been an ambassador for the area for a long time, but then you actually are a representative to City Hall, ambassador to for the area for a long time, but then you actually on it.

Speaker 2 17:25

I'm not, you know, representative, uh, to city hall. See, we've had a lot of politicians on here and I think you're really the first like actual city politician. We've had mayors and things like that and we can talk about that. But as a counselor, like I don't think people realize how hard it is to actually get things done because there's no party affiliation, there's not everyone votes the same. You have to really be a master negotiator to try to get other people to do things.

Speaker 1 17:53

I find it, as a person not in politics at all, a very puzzling way to kind of get things done. You have all these different councillors and they're all trying to agree on something. You, almost by default, almost always seem to disagree on things.

Speaker 3 18:04

Well, try it. When there's 23 counselors, that's a lot.

Speaker 2 18:07

Yeah. Yeah, well, you went from 23 to 16. Yeah.

Speaker 3 18:09

Well, I went from 12 counselors, or all of them.

Speaker 2 18:12

right, yeah, yeah, yeah To 23.

Speaker 3 18:14

But that was 66. Yeah, right, yeah. And then from 66 to 23, 23 to 16. Yeah, and you remember when they talked about the wages and the salaries that were too high for counselors?

Speaker 2 18:27

Yes, remember that.

Speaker 3 18:28

And they get a 2% or 3% or 4% raise in September or October when they cut from 23 down to 16, that was probably $700,000, $800,000 out of the budget.

Speaker 2 18:39

Right, right yeah.

Speaker 3 18:41

We didn't get one and a half times the salary or whatever right the salary went up two or three percent and people complained about that. And you know Rick Howe, who I have an immense amount of respect for. He and I talked about that. I said how come you didn't mention that when we saved all that money? And off air he says okay, adams is not coming on my show anymore.

Speaker 1 18:59

He was a good man yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good he's a legend in this uh, these parts but, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 19:05

I think it's funny. I think some people don't quite uh appreciate. You know, they think politicians have these, you know fat cat jobs and things like that. But uh, I don't think they. I think a lot of people if let, if they were given the job for a year, I don't know if they would want to do it for the salary you don't do it for the salary.

Speaker 2 19:28

Well, that's the thing, right, a lot of people who look at it and go like, oh, I mean now, because they're making $103,000 or something like that. Now, so for $103,000 to basically kind of be like a bit of a micro celebrity, right, everyone knows your name, everyone knows who you are, and not only do they know who you are, and they can be good or bad they hate you or they love you or what indifferent or whatever it may be right, it's not like working in a private sector job where you just focus on your, your job, right?

Speaker 2 19:56

you know there may be some people that don't like you, but for the most part you're just working your job. You don't have this fame that you get with being a politician and the amount of deep hate that people can have for you and they may never have actually shaken your hand in their life, never talked to you exactly right, never, ever talked to you.

Speaker 3 20:18

Yeah, and I got to like I had a guy call my house 2 in the morning.

Speaker 1 20:26

Over what.

Speaker 3 20:27

Well, you'll get this in a second oh yeah, 2 in the morning. You better have a good reason. Oh no, no, no.

Speaker 1 20:32

I'm asleep.

Speaker 3 20:32

Yeah, and I get up and listen to the message. I hope your house burns down and your wife and kids die in the fire.

Speaker 1 20:43

Wow, gross, see, that annoyed me.

Speaker 3 20:45

Yeah, so I get out of bed.

Speaker 1 20:48

I was wild, right? You don't say that.

Speaker 3 20:51

I went right to his house.

Speaker 2 20:52

Oh, did you.

Speaker 3 20:53

Oh yeah, you don't do that. So you know who this guy was. Yep, and I said why would you say that he wouldn't open? Well, I know you're not going to lie to me. He sat down and had some ginger ale. I said why would you say that that was evil, simply evil. Yeah right and he said it was raining and I couldn't get a cab.

Speaker 1 21:13

Wow, but like what was he upset about? Can you remember?

Speaker 2 21:19

He couldn't was a joke. Oh, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 21:21

You couldn't get a cab to your house. It could tell you off.

Speaker 3 21:24

No, I couldn't get a cab.

Speaker 1 21:27

That's bizarre, so mental health issues there probably with that gentleman no.

Speaker 3 21:31

You don't think so? No, no, just mad. I had a lady call me at 3 in the morning because there were flooding problems.

Speaker 3 21:37

Okay, and I already had sent her the information. Her the information, and I said why are you calling me at this hour? Well, I thought it would be a good time to get you, okay. So I said I'll get a whole engineer and I'll see what I can do for you. Actually it was 10 after 3. So I said I'll get some information for you. So I called her back at 10 after 3. Figured it was a good time for her. So never call me again.

Speaker 2 22:01

Obviously it takes a special person to do that, to like handle that type of stuff, right, but how do you reconcile with that stuff?

Speaker 3 22:07

Never get in your head, yeah.

Speaker 2 22:10

As you go through your day, you're seeing people, you're, you know, you're at events and there's a thousand people there and you're sitting there thinking like do 50% of these people like want to smack me back of the head, kind of thing yeah, never been smacked.

Speaker 3 22:19

That's good. And you know, like I tell people and people have told me, do not take it personally. Sometimes it's hard, yeah, sometimes it's difficult, yeah, but you know, some have, like you said, never shaken your hand. They don't even know you, Right. But because you're a politician, yeah, it's an uphill battle right from the get-go Right For some people For you to deal with.

Speaker 3 22:44

That it can be frustrating, but you know, the funny thing is if you have 10 angry phone calls or 20 angry phone calls and one that says, look, I really appreciate what you did for me, thank you, all the other stuff goes away. It goes away and it's. If someone would tell me that's the way, yeah, it goes away and it's it's. You know, if someone would tell me that's the way it would work, I wouldn't believe it. Yeah, but it's true, it just goes away. I can believe that. Yeah, because you've helped somebody, right. Yeah, you may have made a difference somewhere. Yeah, exactly, and that's what people they want you to. They want you to call back, even if you can't do anything to help them.

Speaker 1 23:21

they they've been heard. So, like looking back in years as Councillor, what were some of the things that you did that you know that you noticed had a good impact on your district, your community? Shoe and water and hearing coat oh yeah.

Speaker 3 23:36

Shoe and water and hearing coat.

Speaker 1 23:37

It was promised for years and years and years, and we were finally able to deliver it Nice.

Speaker 3 23:39

For years and years and years and we were finally able to deliver it Nice. And another one which doesn't seem significant to people, but there was a place out in Cleveland Park right that they had. It was a French fry plant. They would blanch fries. It was in between Elmdale Crescent and the playground which is there now.

Speaker 3 24:01

Oh okay, it was 100 Cleveland Drive and it was brutal, the smell and the waffling, it was just horrible and finally got it removed. And the late Dan Paul I remember my first election in 91, he gave me a check for $100. Yeah. And the second one, also with Lied, was they had terrible flooding. The flooding was abysmal and I remember talking to uh the engineer, the late bill sullivan, and I used to. I said you're, you should be doctor. No, because I don't even finish my question, you say no. He started laughing. I said this flooding problem is up there. He says no, there's not. I said I'm telling you. I've been in basements up to my ankles. He said a friend of mine calls me. He says my basement's flooded. I went up and his kids were swimming. They had their goggles and snorkel on right, swimming in the basement. So I said that's a flooding problem.

Speaker 3 24:56

So finally convinced council to get a study done by an engineering firm, CBCL, that 80% of the basements were wet.

Speaker 2 25:05

Yeah.

Speaker 3 25:06

So we got the storm sewers put in and that relieved those who hooked into them, got some relief.

Speaker 2 25:10

Wow, how do you get like? What does it look like when you're trying you take a cause to council? Obviously it's not just in front of council. You have to obviously kind of schmooze a little bit amongst your councillors to get like what does that look like? How do you try to convince the people to vote in the favor of the things that you need to get done?

Speaker 3 25:31

Good question. Yeah, it's a very good question and everyone's different the way they deal with it. I used to just talk to council and I said look, I've been working on this for a while, here's what's happening, like you do the cause and effect. Here's what's happening and this is the problems that it's creating. Can you support at least looking at some semblance of relief, like a study or further investigation? Like, just start the process, don't say no. And after we get to the final part of it and I used to tell them I don't give a rat's patootie which way you vote, what I'm concerned about is that you have the information you need to make an informed decision.

Speaker 1 26:11

Right.

Speaker 3 26:12

And then if you think that there's merit, then I'd appreciate your support. If not, I get it. No hard feelings and never, ever, ever take it outside of council.

Speaker 1 26:22

Ever yeah Right. Never take it outside of council. Ever yeah Right.

Speaker 3 26:26

Never take it outside of council. No, I remember one time Wayne Mason and I get into it in council.

Speaker 2 26:30

It was pretty bad and after it you guys seemed like oil and water a little bit. For your last, a tad For your last, like the last four years of your political career, you guys were oil and water there.

Speaker 3 26:42

So it was bad right.

Speaker 2 26:43

Yeah.

Speaker 3 26:44

And then, after I said need to drive home yeah, I'd like that yeah, talked about our kids.

Speaker 2 26:51

Oh, there you go, there you go. You can't, that's how you do it, you leave it inside right?

Speaker 3 26:54

Yeah, Because if you don't, it'll fester and you'll hate the world. Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:59

Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah, you've got to kind of just do it that way. I guess that's good. Was there anyone in your 29 years that you were absolutely like? I cannot work with that person. You can choose to name names or not.

Speaker 3 27:18

Well, I could work with anybody.

Speaker 2 27:20

Yeah, but I mean, like after a couple times you were just kind of like okay, we are not going to be on the same page ever. He said this about you just before we started. That's true. We did say, are you?

Speaker 3 27:30

sitting counselors or guys who do interviews, which there there were a couple that they were Like if I said the sky is blue, he'd say no, it's nighttime, yeah.

Speaker 2 27:42

No matter what. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 27:43

It, just it wasn't going to work. So I figured well, we've got 22 others, or 21 others, I can talk to Put your effort elsewhere.

Speaker 2 27:51

That's right, yeah.

Speaker 3 27:52

And you know if he or she will say supported emotion. Great, it was a bonus.

Speaker 1 27:57

Yeah, yeah but it's not something you'd count on, yeah.

Speaker 3 28:00

And generally, this individual would say well, I'll keep an open mind. At the hearing I said okay, you're a no yeah fair enough, not hard to figure out, right?

Speaker 2 28:09

Just tell me, yeah, how important do you think? Because at one point I know like I think it was either your second last term or your last term At one point it seemed like council was having a lot of in-camera meetings and there was a lot of criticism around that.

Speaker 3 28:24

So in-camera meetings are only for land, personnel or legal Right and I can tell you that I never, ever, ever participated in an in-camera meeting which fell outside those categories Okay, ever meeting which fell outside those categories ever. And the information that was discussed. There was a motion at the end of the meeting in public, and the motion wasn't blatantly obvious what it was about, but it covered what was discussed in the in-camera. There were a lot of in-camera meetings, you're right. I mean there was Commonwealth Games, there was Harbor Solutions, sometimes the Nova Center, there was a few things and there was. I remember a time and I don't know the timeline, but you're right, there was an inordinate amount.

Speaker 2 29:30

There was. I can't remember was your second last time, or your?

Speaker 3 29:33

last time Probably the second last.

Speaker 3 29:43

Yeah, that sounds like it might have been yeah to anyone who's listening maybe explain like why they're important. So let's take, for example, there's a land negotiation, right, and there's, you know, the city needs. Uh, well, we bought a lot of land for the harry cove road widening, right. So let's say, for example, you're negotiating with people, you have a property, and you have a property and others have properties. If you do that in the open, well, he got $150,000 for his, I get $175,000 for mine, and then $200,000, and the prices start escalating. So if you do all of the negotiations at the same time with the homeowners and then bring it all to council at once, you discuss it and then you have the package together and then you approve it, because if you do it piecemeal, then your price is going to go up.

Speaker 1 30:26

You just rise the price up house over house.

Community Accomplishments and Working with Council

Speaker 3 30:27

Exactly Makes sense, yeah and it costs the city more and that's never a good thing. No Personnel if someone has done something they shouldn't, or reprimanded like. Sometimes there are complaints against coun, against counselors, and had to deal with those because they fall under the personnel category Right, so you've got to deal with that. And legal I don't recall something specific for the legal issues, but they weren't like someone on council did something they shouldn't, but generally a lot of it was around land or contract negotiations and other ones. So you didn't want to do that in the open. Nothing good comes from it.

Speaker 3 31:04

Fair enough, but I can tell you, as I'm sitting here, that there were no discussions in camera that were outside of those categories.

Speaker 2 31:15

Yeah, I just remember it just seemed like the media blew it up for a while there Everything's in secret, everything's in secret, everything's in secret, yeah.

Speaker 3 31:22

Well, those are the key words. I know what's in secret, or they're a big cloak of darkness, and all the journalism 101 must be all theatrical and everything and have no foundation or substance to what we're saying.

Speaker 1 31:36

But it sure reads well or substance to what we're saying, but it sure reads. Well, I want to ask you a question going back to pharmaceutical sales and really the transferable skills. What do you think? As a pharmaceutical rep, you were out of university doing this for a few years right, five years, yeah, five years and what skills did you learn in that field that kind of helped you transfer, maybe to the political realm or in the council realm, communication, talking with people, maybe to the political realm or in the council, realm Communication, talking with people, and you know if you can speak to somebody, get your point across and not fumble and mumble and all that you'll do.

Speaker 3 32:12

Well, right, proper grammar, people laugh, but it's important, it really is important, and you know when you're talking. You talked earlier about getting your colleagues on side. Well, in sales, same thing, right, you're selling yourself or selling your idea, and you find out what are the underlying issues. Sometimes they may not like me. Okay, that's your underlying issue, then we move along. But if you find out what the underlying issues, sometimes they may not like me. Okay, that's your underlying issue, then we move along. Right, but if you find out what the underlying issues are, then you help resolve them. If you can resolve those, then you get to I agree with you reasonably quickly.

Speaker 3 32:51

But if you can't resolve it, then you're not going to be successful.

Speaker 1 32:55

But you can't be successful every time. Yeah, I certainly do try too. Yeah, yeah, yeah with that, yeah for sure yeah, well, we're looking back on there.

Speaker 2 33:03

Is there anything that you're sitting there thinking like I wish I could get that done?

Speaker 3 33:08

the last phase of herring cove sewer water. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 33:11

Were you going to get out to catch harbour by chance? Will it get out to catch harbour? Where are you? Where are you aiming to? That's where I live now. So we're aiming to get out to Ketch Harbour. No, where are you aiming?

Speaker 3 33:20

to get out.

Speaker 1 33:20

That's where I live now, so are you aiming to get out to Ketch Harbour?

Speaker 3 33:22

Guaranteed? Not no, it could have gotten down past the gas station. Steve Murphy's right yeah, Because there was plenty of development, but the staff wouldn't hear of it and there just wasn't enough money to get it done. Right. There just wasn't enough money to get it done. There just wasn't, and that was one of the problems. There was money in there for a tower and I moved that money from the tower to the top of Ocean Breeze and, instead of doing that, did more like Village Road and John Brackett Drive.

Speaker 1 33:53

Yeah, I always wondered, though there's so many freshwater lakes out there in San Bro too, like you know, there's an opportunity, but maybe it's just too expensive.

Speaker 3 34:02

Yeah but it gets expensive and there was one time I took a lot of criticism. There wasn't enough money to do the next phase. We were told we were going to get $19 million, get something like three or four. So you know what are you going to do. You're going to service five or six houses and they pay $70,000 each, when everybody else paid $12,500.

Speaker 1 34:23

So that's not good.

Speaker 3 34:25

So there were two options Try to get that through and make people mortgage their houses to pay for this, which really isn't good, or transfer the money. And I was criticized heavily for it by people who knew better but didn't fit their narrative. And I was criticized heavily for it by people who knew better but didn't fit their narrative and I said, well, move it up to Fall River. They can use that and apply it towards their contribution for the entire community, because if it didn't get allocated, it just disappeared and gone nowhere. So you can put this forward and have someone get some benefit, or you can be stubborn and say, yeah, we're going to stay here with it and we're going to try and fight and lose it all. It's just dumb.

Speaker 2 35:14

Yeah, water is always a big issue. I mean obviously out in Heronsfield that was a big issue, right with the water stuff out in Heronsfield it was a big issue, I mean like, obviously out in Harrodsfield, that was a big issue, right With the water. Stuff out in Harrodsfield was always a big issue. It was a big issue when I ran. Still an issue today. Still an issue today, yeah so Harrodsfield.

Speaker 1 35:27

Like I don't really understand the issue as well, even though I live on the other side of the loop.

Speaker 2 35:37

I've never educated myself on it.

Speaker 3 35:38

Well, a lot of people don't understand. No, no, there's been issues. I've just seen the signs up every once in a while.

Speaker 1 35:44

So I don't really understand it. What would you say?

Speaker 3 35:46

There were issues there since the 80s. It's in the land use bylaw the higher arsenic and uranium levels, right, they were in the bylaw and they were a problem, so won't get into names. But what had happened? Rdm came about and people don't realize how it came about. There was Nicholson's Auto Salvage and that was. You know, you go in to get a radiator, you bring your WD-40 and your wrench and you take it out of the car and cut the hose and stuff drains into the ground and away we go right.

Speaker 3 36:19

Everyone's happy, Good old days.

Speaker 2 36:21

Good old days.

Speaker 3 36:23

You know. So what happened is that and I had no idea, this was a discussion with staff and the proponent at the time where, you know, nicholson's Auto Salvage recycled, repurposed, sold car parts, which recycled, repurposed, sold car parts. So RDM came in and they had building materials and they ground up a lot of stuff and some of it went out to the landfill for cover. Well, the planner of the day said well, you are recycling and reselling building materials. Well, they might have done a little bit right, but that's how they put the use as similar to Nicholson's, and that's how they got the license to operate out of there.

Speaker 3 37:15

Okay, so what happened is they got the permits and again, this is not a council decision but then you see mounds of chiprock, chiprock everywhere. And that was when I said look, this is wrong, this stuff is going to leach into the groundwater. It's going to leach everywhere. You've got to find a way to deal with it. So, through a huge fight, I'll admit that um, we got them the ability, the zoning, to allow for, uh, burial right which would protect it from the environment, would protect everything. Yeah, and that, uh, you know, I know people were upset, but you know, if you have something exposed. It's going to be really bad, right. So then they applied for their permit to bury from the city. The city gave the permit and then they had to go to the province. Province says nope, not doing it, we're not going to allow you to bury.

Speaker 3 38:14

That's not good yeah and I have the minister at the time. I could tell you. It was quarter after four on a Friday afternoon. I was on the Cornwall Road and he called me. I pulled over. I said, with due respect you have no clue what you're doing.

Speaker 1 38:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3 38:28

Right to a minister. Anyway, the city didn't bother, giving them a permit to bury Right Didn't bother because they knew the province would say no. The same minister, a year later, gave them a permit to bury 120,000 tons. Oh, bypass the city, bypass the city processes.

Speaker 2 38:47

Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 3 38:49

So that's the story. Yeah, that's the story. Now, people may or may not believe it. I don't care, because those are the facts.

Speaker 2 38:57

And. I do remember because we'll eventually talk about your decision to retire from politics. But I do remember in your last term, because you and I had discussed this a lot, because you knew I was going to run.

Speaker 1 39:11

Were you going to replace him? Was that the deal? Yeah, yeah, oh, wow, I ran for his seat. Oh my gosh, okay cool.

Speaker 2 39:17

Listen when I ran. This is why I have a ton of respect for Steve, not that I didn't beforehand, but when I ran for about a solid six months he gave me a lot of his time I probably spoke to you what every second day for six months. Amazing, you were probably the person I spoke to the most outside of my wife.

Speaker 3 39:33

It's funny because I told all the candidates right, I'll meet with you, we can talk whatever you want. No one will ever know. We spoke, I promise you, and Matt and I spoke more than anyone that was after. He talks a lot, oh my heaven Someone should tell him you have two ears and one mouth to listen to twice as much, as you say. But I enjoyed it I did. And sometimes it was like 10, 10.30 at night.

Speaker 2 40:04

It was, yeah, sometimes it was late at night because I was knocking on doors, right.

Speaker 3 40:06

And I was getting home, it was fine, yeah, and there were other candidates that not as frequently.

Speaker 1 40:15

Let's give Matt some advice real quick. Do you think just because?

Speaker 3 40:18

he lost once he shouldn't run again.

Speaker 1 40:20

That's up to him. That's up to him. It's a personal choice, a personal decision. It's a lot.

Speaker 3 40:28

It is, and actually winning an election is sometimes more difficult than the job.

Speaker 1 40:35

Yeah, well, you were close and I was there that night with you, holy smokes. Yeah, you were close, it was a shitty night, but you know.

Speaker 3 40:42

Yeah, crappy night. But, it's you know. I mean I wouldn't trade 29 years for the world.

Speaker 1 40:48

Yeah, well, you know you do a lot of good right, you know you see, I like to think you have a lot of challenges and stuff, perceptions of you, and they can sometimes run away, I'm sure, and sometimes they're probably. Maybe it might be true sometimes too right.

Speaker 3 41:01

I'll never run away.

Speaker 1 41:03

But you can get to kind of look back and say, hey, I did a few things for my community at least I can stand behind A lot of the ones that are yappy and everything, little chihuahuas, right?

Speaker 3 41:13

Yeah, you look at them and they run, yeah, and you can't respect that. I would rather someone come up to me and tell you I think you are more and I think you're this, I think you're that yeah okay, that's cool yeah, well so that's it.

Speaker 1 41:27

They don't know. So then you decide to retire. What made you retire? Yeah, I want to ask you about retirement.

Speaker 3 41:30

Yeah, yeah 29 years next. It's a long time, right?

Speaker 2 41:35

you could have you probably I mean, I no doubt my mind you could have Went there until you chose not, to which obviously you did, but you could have probably won another election.

Speaker 3 41:42

Perhaps Was it twice.

Speaker 2 41:44

You were just acclaimed.

Speaker 3 41:46

Acclaimed twice. Yeah, and the last two, like everyone, made a big deal of me moving to Bedford.

Speaker 2 41:51

That's right, yes, right.

Speaker 3 41:52

So the 2004 election simply said I fell in love with a woman from Bedford who has two kids.

Speaker 3 42:01

I fell in love with a woman from Bedford who has two kids, and there's no way I would take those children out of their community, out of their home, out of their schools and away from their friends for political purposes. I just wouldn't. And if I lose an election on it, so be it, that's fine, that's fine. So I remember a debate at the Williams Spry and they were bringing this up and you kind of get tired of it, right, but it is what it is. So I remember saying that look, with due respect to my fellow candidates here, I've lived here longer than you have.

Speaker 2 42:41

Yeah.

Speaker 3 42:41

And you know I've forgotten more about Spryfield and the surrounding communities than you have. And you know I've forgotten more about Spryfield and the surrounding communities than you'll ever know. And I said if you worry about where your head, where someone lays your head at night, then okay, vote for them. But if you want to know what's more important having something in your head I'm your guy. And there was a guy I said Alan Marriott.

Speaker 1 43:00

I said see where I'm sitting.

Speaker 3 43:03

That was my grade four seat because it was at GK Butler, which was the William Spry and the funniest one. There was a debate. It was in 2012 when Prospect Road came into it and there were three candidates myself and three others and I said the same thing about fell in love and, speaking of that, we had our 18th anniversary yesterday. Three others and I said the same thing about you know, you know, fell in love and you know, and, speaking of that, we had our our 18th anniversary yesterday.

Speaker 2 43:28

Oh congratulations.

Speaker 3 43:29

Thank you, yeah, and love is, as I've always been in, more so every day. So it was, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 43:37

So I get up and and I she's retired now too, so I get up and she's retired now too, isn't she? That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, just recently, right, just loving it.

Speaker 3 43:44

And I'm a grandfather now too.

Speaker 2 43:46

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 43:46

Yeah, yeah, Life is really good. That's awesome. So I said you know, I fell in love and here we are and apparently these guys are scratching at all kinds of stuff they had. So then at the end of it, I was the last one to speak.

Speaker 3 44:00

It worked out perfectly I was the first one to speak and then the last one as well to sum it up, I said before we go further, I just want to thank my candidate colleagues here for offering and for your service. So it was a firefighter and a retired military fellow and a retired police officer. I said all I need is a white hard hat and we could be the village people. And that lightened everything up.

Speaker 2 44:26

Yeah, right, I mean, I can understand that some people might, when they say like, oh, we want someone from the area. I can understand what they mean by that, but I think in the end, what they're saying is we want someone who understands our problems. And in the end I think you did, because you were born and raised most of your life there. I mean even still to this day. As you said, you just handed off the ownership of the Spryfield Junior C team.

Speaker 2 44:54

So even still after retirement. You're still very much deep roots in the community.

Speaker 3 44:58

Well, look at Nick Marr, right, who served on council for the city for 33 years. Okay, lived on Randolph Street, represented Quimple Road. Yeah, yeah, right, gloria McCluskey yeah, doesn't live in the area. Tony Mancini, robert Chisholm Now there's a story. Yeah, yeah, robert Chisholm, when John Buchanan left right. So there was Robert Chisholm, judy Hartling and Rennie Quigley right, judy Hartling, sorry. And Robert came from the Valley, lived on the other side of the road. He saw up off Dutch Village Road, yep, and no one really knew who he was. And, sorry, randy Ball was the other candidate, well-known, well-respected county councillor. And who's Robert? No one really knew him. An NDP candidate, respectfully, that's not what Spryfield was about at the time because, John became an PC, so I've got to correct this.

Speaker 3 45:59

It was Robert Randy and Judy Harrell. Yeah.

Speaker 1 46:02

So I've got to correct this.

Speaker 3 46:04

It was Robert Randy and Judy Harrell. Yeah, so Robert worked and worked and worked and worked and he won. He won right. Yeah, didn't live in the area never wasn't born there, had no ties. And then he won again. So it's you know, people want someone who's going to represent them and do the best they can for those people right Right. That's what it comes down to.

Speaker 1 46:31

Yeah, before we move on, I want to ask about UDI. You moved over to be the executive director of Urban Development Institute, yep, and that's stationed in Spryfield, isn't it?

Speaker 3 46:41

No, sorry, no, it's, our office is Duke Tower.

Speaker 1 46:46

Oh, duke Tower Okay sorry.

Speaker 2 46:47

Yeah, close enough.

Speaker 1 46:48

Okay, he still overlooks his old job, he overlooks City Hall.

Speaker 2 46:53

Yeah.

Speaker 3 46:53

City Hall. I can see it Right from my office. I can see City Hall, okay, very good. Yeah, how did you role and and why are you doing it? So, uh, it was september of 2020 and there was a uh, I got a phone call.

Transferable Skills from Pharmaceutical Sales

Speaker 3 47:12

I'm at home, I get a phone call and he starts with before you interview with anyone or sign a contractor, you you've got to talk to me. Okay, what's it's about? Can't tell you. I said, well, geez man. He said no, it's okay. He says it's a job. I said okay, what does this entail? I can't tell you. I said oh, man, can you be a little more vague? So he did tell me it was development related. So I spoke to John Traves, city solicitor. I said I've been approached about a job in development. I don't know anything else. He says okay. He says well, you don't have any more council meetings, there's no influence you could have. So, yeah, go ahead. So after my last Rick Howe show, I went down and met this fella, told me about the job and they wanted me to work for them. So you know, over the next month to a couple months, we went through some things and came up with a contract and January 4th 2021, which was my 60th birthday, I get hired.

Speaker 1 48:16

Cool.

Speaker 3 48:19

I told them I'd give them three years, and now it's four and a half so far.

Speaker 2 48:22

And for anyone listening, what does UDI do?

Speaker 3 48:25

So the Urban Development Institute, we work with the provincial government and the federal government and sometimes we lobby, sometimes we look at bylaws, look at things that may or may not seem right. Yeah, seem right. And you look at, for example, there was a they wanted to do a vacant lot tax. The city did right. I'm thinking, no, that doesn't make any sense, because for every charge that is put on a property, by whomever recommended by council staff, whatever the case may be, every charge gets back to the renter or the buyer or the leaser, whoever leases right.

Speaker 3 49:07

So if you add $10,000 or $100,000 to a property, that money gets spread amongst all the people renting. So, instead of jumping up and down and going to the media and press release, we just I got a meeting with the planning staff and I said what does this actually mean? Like why they had no idea because it was brand new, right? So, look, we're not gonna go put all kinds of press releases out, but just bear in mind that, no matter what you do, if you add money, it just goes back to the people who are renting, right, true enough. So something like that. And we've been criticized because of our members. Well, the people are saying that out of ignorance. They just don't have a clue, right? Yeah, so we represent developers and builders. Yeah, consultants, engineers, architects We've got several not-for-profits on UDL.

Speaker 1 50:03

I saw that. Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 3 50:05

So I figured you know, and the memberships are pricey for the builders and developers, but I asked our board and they approved it to allow the not-for-profits to come in for $150. There you go.

Speaker 1 50:19

Right.

Speaker 3 50:36

And HST. There you go. Conclusions here. There's nothing in it for our members. There's just not right. But it's a way to share information, to help people get where they want to get, and we've had some pretty decent success in helping them because they had no idea.

Speaker 2 50:52

That's not different than any other professional association.

Speaker 3 50:56

No, we're an offer-profit association, that's right.

Speaker 2 51:00

There's lots of different professions that have associations so they can benefit and together they're stronger type of thing yeah exactly, and we can learn the challenges that the not-for-profits face and help them overcome them.

Speaker 3 51:11

Even on my first conference call with them, they were trying to figure out if we have a piece of land, we want to know what we can do with it. And I said you and I will talk after this meeting and I'll save you months of work, right, right? And I told them exactly what to do. Yeah, and they got their answer within three days of what they could and could not do.

Speaker 1 51:31

So can Matt and I talk to you when we want to. You know, put an afternoon bite pub and some business offices there you go. Of course you can, yeah.

Speaker 3 51:39

But you know, the thing is that you know you get people who they sometimes draw conclusions that aren't there, okay, and then you know developers are the worst guys in the world, Like developers are human beings.

Speaker 2 51:52

Yeah, they're people.

Speaker 3 51:53

They are, and they're decent people. They work hard, they take all the risks. People criticize them, but you know most of the people who do the criticism they live in a house or an apartment.

Speaker 1 52:04

We're in need for homes, we're in need for places for people to live. We're in need for economic growth. These are no brainers. I don't care what side you're on right now. I kind of agree on those two things. So I can see the value of having these types of organizations.

Speaker 3 52:20

And we have a conference every year in November. And we have a conference every year in November. And last year I figured it would be a good idea to talk to other municipalities, so we had a municipal panel from West Hance, the Valley so that was the head of planning and Lunarburg County. Okay, and one of the things that was brought up by Wolfville was we had a need for 1800 units and we have no idea how we're going to get them and we only have 10 years to do it. Well, you're in the right audience, man.

Speaker 1 52:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3 52:48

I mean, these are guys that put together, you know, like you know, 400 unit buildings and how to do it and do it right.

Speaker 2 52:55

In your expertise. Obviously, like you know you're, you're really I'm really an ideal person to ask this question to, because you were obviously three decades in politics and now obviously working in the Development Institute. Given the fact that we need to do such rapid building in order to fulfill a need and to get to a point where maybe rent can even start coming down at some point, if you had the magic wand and can do it, what would you suggest we do right away?

Speaker 3 53:24

Well, the Housing Accelerator Fund was an excellent, excellent start. Okay, Excellent because it increased height in certain areas. Take, for example, down the south end.

Speaker 2 53:36

Yeah.

Speaker 3 53:37

Right Now I'm dealing with a project now in the south end which is quite close to the hospital, and there's been some roadblocks thrown at us Right. Why would you do that? You know, if you can provide housing for medical professionals right that are next to the hospital, like if you need something you know for doctors on call or whatever.

Speaker 1 53:57

Right On a bus route.

Current Role at Urban Development Institute

Speaker 3 53:59

That's the perfect definition of where the Housing salary fund works. Same with the universities. You've got properties there that can be developed and let the private sector come in. The students will decide if they can afford it or not. But you're right, we need more housing stock or not. But you're right, we need more housing stock. So an issue I'm dealing with now is after the regional plan was approved. It brought my attention that every space for a multi-unit building had to have an EV-ready charging stall. Okay, five to $10,000 per stall, that's what it would cost, not including the charger. That is costly, it is, but that's only part of it. Yeah, you know, if you have a 400-unit building, then you have to upgrade, like the transformers. You have to upgrade the panels, like you increase the amperage in your services, all kinds of other costs.

Speaker 1 55:00

Yeah, can you get money from the government from that.

Speaker 3 55:02

Nothing that I'm aware of.

Speaker 1 55:04

Are the government to mandate the EVs?

Speaker 3 55:06

Not aware of right now. Okay, not for EVs.

Speaker 2 55:10

You can get government funding if you want to put like HVACs or heat pumps.

Speaker 3 55:13

Solar panels, stuff like that. Solar panels, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 55:15

Like to make your home more efficient. That's just scary.

Speaker 3 55:18

But the city doesn't put gas pumps in every space. Why an EV charging station? It doesn't make sense and we're not against, like UDI is not opposed to having EV-ready stalls.

Speaker 1 55:31

Not at all.

Speaker 3 55:32

But allow the market. Like if I have an electric vehicle, I am not going to rent in a building that doesn't have a charging stall.

Speaker 2 55:40

Just simple.

Speaker 3 55:40

So the good ones, the good developers, the smart ones that are forward thinking, if they have 100 spaces, maybe they'll make 20 or 30, 20, 25 spaces, with a conduit, at least for the EVs.

Speaker 1 55:54

Yeah 100%.

Speaker 3 55:56

And then piece of cake, we just fire the wires through and away we go. We're good, but to mandate every single unit and that's what we're talking about now we had a good meeting with the city last week.

Speaker 1 56:07

So they want to mandate the units, every single unit, because of their mandate to have all electric vehicles in the future.

Speaker 3 56:16

No, Okay, and you know if you follow the news, electric vehicle sales are going down.

Speaker 1 56:22

Yeah, they are declining right now. Yeah, it's a weird year for that stuff. Well, there's just a lot of tariffs yeah tariffs and a lot of economic uncertainty. Tariffs are some of it.

Speaker 2 56:31

Also, I think the number one electric vehicle is Tesla and people kind of have a hate on Elon right now.

Speaker 3 56:35

So that's going to be a driving factor too.

Speaker 2 56:38

It's a couple different things.

Speaker 1 56:40

I love the concept of hybrid. I mean, I think that's my favorite concept when you're talking EVs because you get the best of both worlds right Better fuel economy and Get everything yeah.

Speaker 1 56:49

Yeah, you're still drastically reducing carbon emissions, but you're not making it such a desperate attempt for people to have charged all the time, right, which is going to be geographically. It's going to be a problem for Canada for a long time. Oh my heavens. Yes, right, because you know, think of how we're laid out. We're not the same as a big city Like we're just very different.

Speaker 3 57:07

We're not Europe. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Size of Europe and not the density.

Speaker 1 57:11

Yeah, exactly, we're pretty sparse.

Speaker 2 57:16

We're sparse.

Speaker 3 57:17

And 300-kilometer-an-hour trains in Italy. I love that. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's great too. That's cool, you can also drive.

Speaker 2 57:24

If your car can get it in Germany, you can get 300 kilometers on the highway too.

Speaker 3 57:28

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 57:30

But, yeah, I didn't get 300, but I got 224.

Speaker 1 57:33

Yeah Cool.

Speaker 2 57:34

That was good, right on, it was fun, but it was fun, but yeah, so I mean that's it. So, yeah, what are some other things? Because I know this is a hot topic for people right now. I know you and I had a lot of discussions about housing at the time.

Speaker 2 57:50

And this is five years ago, Before we were, I would say, we were even really in a housing crisis Because prior to COVID we didn't have the flock of people that moved here. We were still having normal rental situations and housing stuff like that. And then COVID hit and a bunch of people moved here and people stopped building. As you probably knew, people weren't building that much during the first two years of COVID kind of thing. A lot of that halted.

Speaker 3 58:16

Well, there were some developers this was recently, it was a year and a half, two years ago that were right on the edge. Should I build or park my money in a 5% GIC Right? There were several like that. Yeah, I bet that's scary, yeah, so nothing's getting built, and sometimes the process can be long as well.

Speaker 2 58:37

Right, right.

Speaker 3 58:38

It can be long, it can be cumbersome, yeah, but you know there was the new it's called Posse system for permitting. We had quite a few problems with it. So instead of complaining about it, I got you know four HRM staff people who deal with these things and brought some of the real experts from UDI and we had a four-hour workshop and said here's where we need help, here's where we think it works well.

Speaker 2 59:03

And it worked. Why are we not building like giant buildings in Halifax, though?

Speaker 3 59:08

People are allergic to height. Here they are. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 59:11

Is that the fire thing? Like I saw something the other week.

Speaker 2 59:13

There is some stuff recently. Firefighting Firefighting in Halifax was saying they weren't prepared to fight fires.

Speaker 1 59:18

Yeah, I saw something about that.

Speaker 3 59:20

Well, maybe with the Halifax or the Housing Accelerator Fund, they could take some of their money and get some things. Or, you know, sprinkler, where New York can do it, most other places can do it. Look at the building right down by the rotary.

Speaker 1 59:32

You know, that's a good point where you just said most other places can do it, we can do it Right there.

Speaker 2 59:38

That has to be a mentality that's embraced a little more sometimes it can happen it happens in Toronto and things like that but preparation for it is good as well. The problem with it is the right funding is not going to the. As Steve said, there's a little bit of an allergic reaction to height. For the longest time it's like you can't. You've got to see the harbor from Citadel Hill, which was dumb because it's like we're not in wartimes, we have radio and stuff.

Speaker 2 1:00:05

We Citadel Hill, which was dumb because it's like we're not in wartimes, we have radio and stuff. We didn't need flags to communicate with each other anymore, but there's that Because we're not building big buildings. Therefore, it's like a catch-22. The city's not putting funding into the fire department to properly equip them with the things they need to do this, because there's like, oh, it's not really a need, we don't really go super high anyway. It's like, well, that's the thing we need to start building them, and then the fire department all equally needs the funding to be able to keep up.

Speaker 2 1:00:41

And then there's training on top of it, and training on top of it, and training on top of it.

Speaker 3 1:00:43

So the other thing, too, is you could go to a public hearing and there's a proposal for a 10-story building. Okay, Some people think that's the end of the world, so they come in too high. Mass scale wind shadows. Mass scale wind shadows. There's a checklist of things that people are going to say are being opposed to this. Sure, yeah, Right, Too much traffic, not enough parking, all these other things, Right. And some people say what about the schools? Well, okay, so if someone who has children in school goes somewhere else, they can move somewhere else. They don't have to go there. There's school. Go somewhere else, they can move somewhere else, they don't have to go there. There's options, right, Right, but it's the people who already have a home and are comfortable that are, you know, a few times, are the ones that are complaining about things right.

Speaker 1 1:01:34

I guess I can empathize with that. I understand that. Yeah, yeah, I get that. But then you've got to kind of see how we're gonna.

Speaker 2 1:01:40

We gotta figure this stuff out eventually well in your time in politics you would have dealt a lot with, like the nimbies as the term goes right now. I didn't even know what a nimby is? Oh, it's not in my backyard oh gosh, okay.

Speaker 1 1:01:53

Yeah, I've heard that before.

Speaker 3 1:01:54

Yeah, okay yeah, so yeah the nimbies of the should have probably wrote that, written that down and asked instead of telling everybody.

Speaker 2 1:02:02

So that's the thing is like the. You know there's everyone. You hear it so much online on Facebook. So they're like we need housing, we need housing. And then all of a sudden it's like okay, great, well, we're going to put like a 20-story building in your neighborhood, whoa well.

Speaker 1 1:02:16

Not there.

Speaker 2 1:02:17

We need housing, just not here.

Speaker 3 1:02:28

My favorite is I'm not against development. But if I had a dollar, If I had a dollar for every time I heard that, yeah, fair enough, and they actually believe they're not against development, but they are.

Speaker 1 1:02:36

Maybe that's what we'll title this episode. I'm not against development, but I mean there's certainly I agree with this.

Speaker 2 1:02:44

There's some concerns, like I you know there's infrastructure and legitimate concerns there's infrastructure things we need to get done.

Speaker 2 1:02:49

I understand, like you know, along the Herring Cove Road there's going to be something like what is it Like? Close to 2,800. I think it's 2,800 units that are getting built in there, and so that means there's a lot of people that are going to be put in there. And yes, herring Cove Road is crazy as it is, you travel it all the time. So Herring Cove Road can get backed up. Do we need better road infrastructure to get those people out?

Speaker 3 1:03:13

Yeah, we do. You raised a good point about the 2,800 and people are saying, well, steve Adams approved all those. Well, here are the facts right. So, greenacres, briarwood right, there was a lot of that was as of bright, and I remember in 2019, 2020, we approved, we changed the zoning to allow some semis Right. So that's what I worked to approve.

Speaker 1 1:03:43

The 383 Herring Cove Road? Are you saying you're not the reason why I drive slower in the city? Because none of the stuff I've built yet?

Speaker 3 1:03:51

A thousand comedians at work and you're trying to be funny.

Speaker 2 1:03:55

But 383 Herring Cove.

Speaker 3 1:03:57

Road right, which they could have had the standard four-story block, but instead a 60-unit building with affordable units, and those started at $1,400 for a single one-bedroom, one-bathroom, with quartz countertops and stainless appliances.

Speaker 1 1:04:13

Right.

Speaker 3 1:04:14

And the end of Lynette Road. Yeah, the other one is, you know, 43 or 46 units there.

Speaker 2 1:04:20

It's a nice building, though the one rated. It's beautiful Right behind you know 43 or 46 units there. That's a nice building, though the one right behind the mall.

Speaker 3 1:04:24

There, like you said, it's beautiful and the bonus there it's underground parking and the fellow Fulton Scrozer he built my house for me but he dug everything out put a million dollars in remediation to that site because it was a former Shell gas station.

Speaker 2 1:04:37

That's right. That's right. I remember the gas station.

Speaker 3 1:04:39

So that remediation in the other way wouldn't have been, it would have been service parking.

Speaker 2 1:04:44

I mean some of the developers in the area have been pretty generous. I mean Peter Pauly.

Speaker 3 1:04:49

I'll say that Wonderful guy.

Speaker 2 1:04:50

I was on the board when we got Long Lake working. I mean, you sat in all the meetings too. But yeah, I was on the board. And the amount of money that Peter put into Long Lake, he donated all the gravel that goes to the trails six kilometers of trails, Okay, he bulldozed the trails, Wow, and he I mean it was a win-win situation. Spryfield and the surrounding areas got a really great park.

Speaker 2 1:05:15

Beautiful park and in return, peter Pauly, who was building a community across the street, got to say my community that I'm building, that I want to sell houses to, is right across from a really nice provincial park. It's a win-win, but there's nothing wrong with that and for the people mostly.

Speaker 1 1:05:29

They're the ones who benefit the most. We've got to get into our 10 questions, Matt. So sorry we went over time, but that's great. That's a good thing about podcasts you can do these as long as you want.

Speaker 3 1:05:40

Whatever you want, right, there's no one really telling us to stop, except for my kid. I probably have to stop at sunup.

Speaker 1 1:05:47

I'm supposed to be at an ice cream social here at 630. So we've got to wrap it up, oh and catch Harbor.

Speaker 2 1:05:51

Yeah, that's right there you go.

Speaker 1 1:05:55

That's good too. There you go. Okay, so this is Well. I thought that was a fun part.

Speaker 2 1:05:59

Well, it's all fun this is the lightning round.

Speaker 1 1:06:01

They're dumb questions, silly questions. Some of them are smart, but you know, just want to get a quick answer from your lightning round. Yeah, so I'll start. If you want, go for it. Is that cool? Yep, okay. In the recent events on Morris Street in Halifax, bike lanes, or is that lane?

Speaker 3 1:06:18

Is what? What do you think?

Speaker 1 1:06:19

about bike lanes on Morris Street, the one way. Did you hear about this?

Speaker 3 1:06:22

I heard about it and I know that the port was opposed to it. I tell you I don't pay much attention to that kind of stuff anymore, right, and I don't have the information that council has to make that decision right.

Speaker 1 1:06:34

Yeah, that's a safe answer, true, okay, good, okay, next question, matt.

Speaker 2 1:06:40

All right. Should HRM taxpayers contribute to a stadium?

Speaker 3 1:06:45

Yes, I like that answer and I'll tell you why. No. The same night that they said no to the $25 million CFL stadium, which I told the LeBlanc guy don't call it that. Yes, it's a stadium. Yeah, council approved $16 million for the Commons waiting pool, which is used six months of the year and never for the rest of it.

Speaker 3 1:07:07

But a stadium could be used year-round, that's right. Don't call it a CFL stadium, because what's that? Eight to ten games? Yeah, or ten games, but what about the universities for soccer and football? What about high school?

Speaker 2 1:07:18

Taylor Swift.

Speaker 1 1:07:19

There, you go, let me get her on the line.

Speaker 3 1:07:22

I'll get her to play For concerts. There's all kinds of events that could have occurred there. They say that the stadium wouldn't generate any income or anything. Well, I'll tell you, until they start charging those children to go to the pool, they're not going to generate any income either.

Speaker 1 1:07:38

No, that's fair. Yeah, and the culture has changed here. It's so much more different, so you don't just have to think of what we would be accused of. There's so many other uses for a stadium.

Speaker 3 1:07:46

Well, it was framed incorrectly, because, oh yeah, you've got millionaires getting their free stadium. I don't think you combine all 12 players on the field. They don't make a million bucks.

Speaker 1 1:08:03

Not in CFL. No. So much for one word answer. That's all good. My turn, yeah. Your turn Okay. One regret or thing you would have done differently in life if given a second chance, so you can pull this from anywhere, just say one regret you have or one thing you said ah geez, I would have done that differently if you reframed it.

Speaker 3 1:08:14

August of 1978, August 3rd, 10 to 4. What Sorry. 1978, August 3rd, 10 to 4. 10 to 4. I was on my motorbike going out to and Matt would know, you would know this too Sure, the four-way stop at Rocking Stone Road and Old Sanford Road.

Speaker 1 1:08:33

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:08:34

I went out there. I was going to go up there and then around, leave and drive, come back home, and a Mack truck came around the corner, bolted his fellow up and hit me.

Speaker 2 1:08:42

Oh wow, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 1:08:45

Now I could have taken him two out of three, but it ruined my knee. I had three surgeries since, oh well, and I had a chance to be on the Nova Scotia games soccer team and called my coach in tears. I couldn't play.

Speaker 1 1:09:02

Changed your life. Jeez, wow it did. But you know something?

Speaker 3 1:09:06

That. Maybe that accident changed something else that could have been worse.

Speaker 1 1:09:13

Oh, the Naples and other stuff too. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 1:09:15

Cool, all right. Next question for here.

Speaker 3 1:09:17

I'll be a little more specific next time.

Speaker 2 1:09:21

Should the mayor have superpowers?

Speaker 3 1:09:22

I have no idea, because I don't know what they are. I don't know what they are. I don't know what he can and cannot do. I think there's an argument to be made. If these were to be considered, he could have done it before the election, fair enough. But I don't know what they entail. I hear that you can fire and hire senior staff, but not fire and police.

Speaker 1 1:09:46

I don't know the ramifications of it, right, I don't know we might have to get him on to see what the frustrations are. That's what's going to happen. How are you All right? Silly question here now. If you had to eat steak dinner or lobster dinner for one full week, which would you choose? Steak, steak, steak man.

Speaker 3 1:10:08

And if you had a third option cod I'd take cod instead of all two of them.

Speaker 1 1:10:11

Cod over lunch In a New York minute done properly with scrunchins oh there you go.

Speaker 3 1:10:16

Scrunchins.

Speaker 1 1:10:18

A little brewis on the side. No, no, no brewis, but you know they call them brewies in Newfoundland.

Speaker 3 1:10:24

There's a place in Newfoundland Bay, roberts Donner's Country Kitchen and the. Silverwood Inn Motel.

Speaker 2 1:10:29

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:10:29

And I used to go there. It was a beautiful piece of pan-fried cod. It was hanging over the edge with fresh-cut fries, steamed vegetables, butterscotch cheesecake and a glass of ginger ale. For twenty dollars, and it was a meal made for a king amazing I take that over a steak and uh or lobster any day all right, all right.

Speaker 2 1:10:50

Here's an easy, fun question. They're all easy and fun, yeah, non-political though. I know you're a sports guy, so tell me, in your opinion, who is the goat of each of the major four? So, hockey, baseball, football, basketball. Who's the goat of each of the major four? So hockey, baseball, football, basketball. Who's?

Speaker 3 1:11:07

the goat in each of them. Michael Jordan, wayne Gretzky Baseball's a tough one yeah.

Speaker 1 1:11:22

Hmm.

Lightning Round Q&A Session

Speaker 3 1:11:27

I would say Ken Griffey Jr. That's a good pick, ken Griffey Jr, he could hit, he could field, he could run. He never got in trouble, that's true.

Speaker 1 1:11:38

Never got in trouble, Never thought about that In football there's, I know your guy.

Speaker 3 1:11:41

I know your guy Never thought about that. And in football, there's I know your guy. Yeah, yeah, I know your guy, it's the guy.

Speaker 2 1:11:48

Well, there you go.

Speaker 3 1:11:49

Let's try not to influence this. I still think it's more related to the era, because with Brady, I mean he was drafted by the Montreal Expos, right, that's right. Yeah, he was a catcher, so he, you know, in his era best ever. Yeah, but Joe Montana in his era right.

Speaker 2 1:12:09

Yeah, Best ever. Montana was the best ever. Yeah, Now in the 70s.

Speaker 3 1:12:12

Like I mean Terry Bradshaw, I'll say his team, unfortunately. Yes, he was all right, but he was not the best quarterback of that era. Yeah, no, that's true, but you remember back then see some of the like Jack Lambert's, my favorite professional athlete of all time.

Speaker 2 1:12:25

I know you're a Lynn Swan guy too. I thought you talked about that before. No, I didn't mind him right.

Speaker 3 1:12:31

He said how come you're so fast? He says, well, I had to leave practice early 15 minutes to learn to run fast. But, like you, look at what Jack Lambert, Dick Butkus, those guys did, Guys coming across forearms and everything, Powell driving guys, right, the 80s has slacked up a bit and then you know, I mean they protect the quarterbacks now, so much. It's a different game. It's a different game. So I'd say Brady and then Montana, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:13:05

All right Over to you All right. So I saw in 2016,. Jacob Boom from the coast at that time asked you 15 questions that were quite similar to what we're doing right now, and I just I like doing a little research just before we got into this. So my favorite answer was what you said about bureaucracy and HRM. You said, regardless of the issue, waiting two to three years for an answer is not acceptable. What are your thoughts on the issues that Halifax Regional Municipality face today?

Speaker 3 1:13:31

The development processes have gotten better, right, but they can always improve right, and I know some people if they get something done in six months then they want four. But I think you know with the processes and Amherst has a really good model Right now with the city you would have a. You know, you put your, get your proposal, submit it to staff and then they set it up to council for initiation and then they'd start the process In Amherst. What they do is they do the same process, except the first time it comes before any governing body it goes to the PAC and a public information meeting. So you find out what's going on at the beginning, what people like, what they don't like.

Speaker 3 1:14:17

I have a proposal on the books up there now. It started off with seven multis, now it's four. It's got some buffering for the existing homes, buffering for the swampland, and now they're working on a model that everybody is basically on side with or at least the majority of people are Instead of getting to your public information meeting a year and a half down the road and waiting eight more months to get the results of that tabulated.

Speaker 1 1:14:43

Right, so they're automating the process to make it faster.

Speaker 3 1:14:45

Yeah, it makes a ton of sense and I find, look, you know, I've always been a supporter of HRM staff, but they've got to learn to make a mistake and not be worried about making. Make a mistake Right, do something that is outside, Feel uncomfortable about it, because an answer that's wrong can be fixed. No answer, there's no hope. Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 1 1:15:10

I think this is our last question. No, okay, let's be number nine. Then, yeah, you go ahead.

Speaker 2 1:15:16

So, because you've been through all of this hindsight, 2020, was amalgamation the best one for HRM.

Speaker 3 1:15:23

There's a multifaceted answer there. So, put in perspective, halifax was on schedule to be debt-free in 1999. Right, 250th anniversary. Dartmouth had a $110 million deficit. Dartmouth had a $110 million deficit and I think their current $100 million deficit in their current budget is $130 million, right, right and in line for a huge increase because they had Lake Major that they had to bring in Bedford. Bedford had a similar per capita cost, as did Dartmouth, and the county was in for a pretty big increase in assessment. Big thing like that, like a big area, is difficult.

Speaker 2 1:16:11

Right.

Speaker 3 1:16:12

So, and I've got that's going to be part of my book, I've got, I'm going to get an account to look at the financial statements at 1996, April 1stst or March 31st That'll tell the tale.

Speaker 2 1:16:26

Or at least part of it. Yeah, exactly, halifax Council, hra Council is not allowed to have a deficit like they're not allowed unless the province grants it.

Speaker 3 1:16:35

Yeah, but they're not going to run any deficits.

Speaker 2 1:16:40

No, exactly.

Speaker 3 1:16:40

And raise taxes right.

Speaker 2 1:16:42

Yeah, that's a whole other issue. Yeah, All right, last question, Last question Stephen.

Speaker 1 1:16:47

So we ask every guest this one what's one piece of advice you were given in your lifetime that you'd like to pass down? It could be given to you from anybody.

Speaker 3 1:16:56

My dad said if you're going to help somebody, help them with no expectation of anything in return. Perfect the Spryfield way Right on.

Speaker 1 1:17:06

There you go. Very good, gentlemen, all right. Well, one last cheers. Did Mike last go? Yeah, she took it, but anyway cheers.

Speaker 3 1:17:13

They can't see that.

Speaker 2 1:17:16

And just as a shout-out, a thank you very much to the Clayton Park Bar and Grill, that's right they hosted us here. So very much to the Clayton Park Bar and Grill. That's right, they hosted us here, so very much. Appreciate them allowing us to record another session here. So thank you very much.

Speaker 1 1:17:29

Thanks Dan All right.

Speaker 2 1:17:30

Take care, gentlemen, cheers.