Joe D'Annunzio - From Cold Calling to Leading a National Brokerage

Joe is a national brokerage president whose early days cold calling in the White pages may have proven to be the perfect guide to show how insurance really works today—human first, tech-enabled, and built for the moments you hope never happen. Joe joins us to share the arc from answering a newspaper ad to leading Brokerlink’s 5,000 + person team, weaving together discipline, mentorship, and the power of community. Along the way, he explains why insurance isn’t just a policy; it’s a promise—and why that promise still depends on a person you can look in the eye when things go sideways.

We get candid about the industry’s past and future: the grind of phone-book selling, the rise of SEO and inbound leads, and how 40,000 monthly website visits now fuel local advisors across 240 communities. Joe opens the hood on practical AI—bots that compare renewals in seconds, a 24/7 chat that handles routine updates, and a client app that mirrors modern banking—while keeping cybersecurity as the first principle. He also draws a clear line between digital convenience and licensed advice, showing why younger buyers research alone but still want human confirmation before binding a legal contract.

We talk scale, choice, and trust: more markets to fit unique needs, local branches that show up at the rink and the supermarket, and community giving that signals real skin in the game. Joe doesn’t dodge the hard parts—messy connectivity with carriers, regulatory friction, and the gap in client education—then offers a smarter approach to mitigation and alerts that actually help. If you’re exploring careers, you’ll hear straight talk on recession resilience, leadership growth, and the mindset that carries you: learn deeply, take risks, and be kind. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review to tell us what part shifted your view of insurance.

Chapters

• 0:00 Joe’s Story and Brokerlink Today
• 2:19 From Soccer Dreams to Insurance
• 8:04 Early Sales Grit: Cold Calls and Insurance Sales Booths
• 14:19 Relationships, Community, and Local Presence
• 16:54 Reframing Insurance: Peace of Mind
• 20:44 Careers Beyond Sales and Leadership Paths
• 25:48 Why People Stay: Stability and Purpose
• 29:08 Technology, Leads, and Making Phones Ring
• 32:38 AI, Cybersecurity, and 24/7 Service
• 36:18 Human Advice vs Digital Convenience
• 39:03 Scale, Talent, and Community Impact
• 42:03 Pain Points: Connectivity and Regulation
• 47:13 Client Education and Risk Mitigation
• 52:43 Career Advice: Take Risks, Learn Deeply
• 56:23 Rapid-Fire: Personal Moments and Values
• 58:33 Closing Thoughts: Be Kind

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:24

Nice to be with you. Yeah. We really appreciate you having you on the on the show here with us. We intended to have this point in person, but unfortunately, uh, you had a you had an injury just before you were coming to visit Nova Scotia. Um I'm really glad we could still make this happen, even though it's not our normal conventional method at uh at a bar after hours after work. So thank you. You guys owe me some wings though. Next time you're done, absolutely. So uh so Joel, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do today.

SPEAKER_00: 0:54

Uh so a little bit about myself. Um I I'm married 35 years. Um she's the rock behind the family, my wife, Michelle. Um, two daughters. So so very proud of them. Um both just got married in the last couple years. I just had my first grandson, which I'm over the moon with. His name is Joey, so yeah, kind of got there. And um so I've been in the industry 35 years. Today I'm president of Brokerlink. I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to be in this position. It's a wonderful gig. Um, I don't look at it as hard, I just look at it as a joy, and uh just thrilled uh just to be in the industry, what it gives back. Um I'm very grateful for what I have. And uh yeah, running Brokerlink has been a challenge, but have been huge rewards, and so the people I get to deal with every day, um, you can't beat that something different every day. And so I'm thrilled to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:59

Now Brokerlink's a pretty big organization, so for folks that don't know exactly how many employees are in Brokerlink now?

SPEAKER_00: 2:06

We're depending on the month, because we do quite a bit of acquisitions. We're about 5,000 employees uh coast to coast. Wow. Uh we operate in every province. Uh we don't have a physical location in PEI, even though we operate there. Five billion dollars we hit this year in BWP, which is uh a nice milestone for us. And uh and so yeah, it's uh it's cool. We're just went into British Columbia last year. That was pretty cool. First time there. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

Before you became uh president of Brokerlink, I mean it's fair to say to anybody listening that nobody just gets into insurance, right? They're uh they all kind of fall into it one way or another. So what was what did young Joe want to do when he was a kid? Be a professional soccer player.

SPEAKER_02: 2:54

Oh I heard this. I heard that you had a a uh scholarship.

SPEAKER_00: 2:59

Yeah, so I I did play uh soccer at UCLA for a year or two, um, but I wasn't good enough for pro. And so you get humbled real quick, right? You you you play your whole life. Um, you know, I was on the all-star teams and everything in my local local hometown, and then you go to a Division I school to try to play there, and your eyes are open because everybody was their uh star in their hometown as well, right?

SPEAKER_01: 3:26

Where was your where was your local hometown at?

SPEAKER_00: 3:28

Niagara Falls.

SPEAKER_01: 3:30

So you're an Ontario guy through and through.

SPEAKER_00: 3:32

I'm an Ontario guy through and through. Um, and so uh when I figured out pretty quick I wasn't gonna be a pro, um, you turn your sights, okay. Let's take advantage of this and uh let's get a good education. And uh I got a business degree and I majored in in economics. And um yeah, and so that's young Joe. He always wanted to be uh a soccer player, but that never worked out and went to university and then I answered an ad. Um it intrigued me. I was looking for a job, I wanted to get out of out of the house living with my parents. I'm in my early 20s, and um was a management trainee uh advertisement in the in the paper for All State insurance. And I applied. I didn't even know what a management trainee in insurance did, but it sounded good. Got hired, and that's that's the start of my career. I had no idea of the it's it's funny.

SPEAKER_02: 4:31

Uh a lot of people in the insurance industry uh say that they it's very much fallen in. If you're if your parents didn't run a brokerage or something like that, right? You just fall into it. Um but it's certainly a good uh certainly a good career to fall into, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 4:46

Absolutely. And like you know, I played competitive sports, you know, played football in high school, basketball, I played soccer, obviously. And I just I I love the team aspect. Uh, I thought I was a pretty good leader, and so I wanted to get into some management position where I can um where I can lead people. And so first that I answered was Allstate, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_02: 5:08

You've done a different lot of different things kind of throughout your your career, yeah uh and kind of early on. How long were you at Allstate for?

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

Uh five years. I was uh again management trainee, became a supervisor, got promoted to a manager, and I wanted to climb the corporate ladder like everybody else, but they told me I had to go and sell insurance, and if I was successful, then I can continue to climb the corporate ladder because um and so I became uh an agent. I'm a broker now, but I was an agent back then, and uh back then at the time, All State sold life insurance as well as uh PNC, right? And so I I I gotta tell you, if you can sell life insurance, you can sell pretty much uh anything. That was a tough gig. Um and so did that and um uh did that successfully for two years. Then I got married, and I got married to an American, and we decided to start a family, but we thought we'd start a move our careers to the US with more opportunity, and I thought I'm up for it a different uh experience, and so I left All State and uh went over to the US and spent 10 years there. How'd you meet your wife? Oh funny story. Um probably like a lot of people, I broke up with somebody else, and uh I decided to go on a trip with my buddies to Mexico.

SPEAKER_01: 6:43

Oh, yeah. Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_00: 6:46

And my first day on the on the one we were there for a week for vacation, just me and three other buddies, and I met her the first day and we hung out by the pool. Cool. A week got to know her and exchanged numbers and had a long distance relationship for a while until we decided it was serious. Yeah. So where where's your wife from? Uh when I met her, she was living in San Diego. Oh, it's really long distance. Yeah, I was in Toronto and she was in San Diego 3,000 miles. And um, I remember her not wanting to leave sunny California, and I didn't want to leave Toronto because I had my career was doing well, and um she ended up coming my way, I guess. Yeah, I won that one, but uh I hope she doesn't regret it.

SPEAKER_02: 7:37

Well, I mean you did you said you you you spent some time down in the US.

SPEAKER_00: 7:41

Yeah, after we got married, um, so we we dated for a couple years, and then after we got married, um we decided to move, but um New York State, which was close to Ontario and and um then Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, but um we we did not go back to California, which I'm sure she was a little bit disappointed in.

SPEAKER_01: 8:02

Right on. So go back going back to you saying you started out as an agent, like um, you know, what were some of your early challenges as an agent?

SPEAKER_00: 8:11

Look, I guess the pros back then, when I started, Allstate was a brand name. And so that was kind of cool. You didn't have to explain yourself with a company that nobody knew about. So that was a pro, I would say. The other thing back then is the Allstate booths, they were calling booths, not offices, because it was literally a counter with an office behind, were all located in Sears stores. There was a relationship with Sears back then, and so I the booth that I worked in in a Sears store was right beside a the the photography uh in a Sears store and the appliances, and it was strategically because people that go buy appliances usually buy their first house or whatever, and then babies, firstborns go to the Sears store back then and get their photo, take a professional photo, right? Right on. And so I'd sit up at the booth and just chat with people. And you know, did you buy a new house and try to you know? I asked, do you need home insurance or your first baby? You know, like do you have life insurance? Young couples. Um, so that was an advantage, but you know, back then you've got you guys are too young. But I was put in a room and they tore a couple pages out of the white telephone book pages and said, go in the back room and cold call this whole page. And there's probably what, 200 numbers on those old telephone books. Yeah, it was all cold calling back then. Like I don't think most people do cold calling today uh of that variety. So it was a grind. And and I remember you know, my first sales manager telling me, I'm like, I'm going in and telling him, man, everybody's hanging up, or they're saying no. He goes, That's a good thing. And I'm like, What do you what are you talking about? Well, for every 10 no's, you're gonna get one yes, and you do a hundred calls, you're gonna get 10 yeses, and you're gonna sell four of those. And it was a numbers game. And so, you know, that got drilled into me, and it and it works. But you got to get a lot of no's to get that that appointment to get the the bind. And so the it was a grind, and I'm not you know, today we don't do that. Uh, you know, we make our phones ring for most of our folks, uh, and then they get referrals and they build up a reputation and then they go out, right? Like, but back then is you just call call and people hung up on you. What's this and what's that?

SPEAKER_02: 10:18

So why do you think that shift happened in the industry where it's like you had to be more outbound, say in like the 90s versus now where it's like it's just flocking?

SPEAKER_00: 10:28

Well, no computers back then, right? Like today, go you you want insurance, you Google car insurance, and you know, broker link or somebody will pop up, you make a call, we'll push it to one of our brokers, right? Um, there's no digital. And so I think in the broker space, we were an agent, but the broker space they had the little town, the little office in the towns, and they would write people in their towns, right? They get to know people through little league hockey or you know, Sunday soccer or at the grocery store. Um, but there was no computers, none of that. And so no cell phones, so you had to call from a, you know, I remember having the rotary number and dialing 50 to 100 calls a night. Um, and people you call them at night because they weren't home during the day and uh they didn't carry cell phones. So and I remember um going most of my uh appointments were at after dinner in the in the customer's kitchen. That's how we did it. And you know, um, we we've changed a lot quite a bit, I think. But um it taught me discipline, especially. Like if I was gonna make any money on it, if I was gonna be successful, I you have to have the discipline to do the the 1500 calls or and then you know, as you you guys know, as you um as you get a bit more successful and sell a few policies and and treat them well and and they know that you know your stuff, then you ask for referrals, and over time, you know, the book gets bigger and a lot less cold calling because then it's just referral business based on a good reputation, right? And so I also had the one advantage I had, because this was in the the Toronto area, um, I spoke Italian. Uh I was born in there, I came to Canada when I was two, but I that's my first language. And Toronto had a huge Italian population. And I would put an ad in the local Italian paper and said, Hey, if you guys need insurance, but you you know, my parents always spoke broken English, were never comfortable in that setting. But I said, I speak the language, I'll take care of you. And so I got a lot of calls through that, which was kind of cool, and helped give back to my community back then that they could trust someone that would take care of their needs, right?

SPEAKER_02: 12:41

I think that's fantastic. Yeah, it's would you say that the industry is like because of that, because you had to do so much night work, the industry is shifted now to a more like family-friendly environment.

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

Yeah. Um, well, I mean, you try calling 50 people at night now, you know what's going to happen with with cell phones, they'll block you. And you know, they we didn't have that technology back then. There was no call ID. You didn't know who was calling you, right? Right. The world has changed. I don't think that would work today. What hasn't changed is uh folks still look for an insurance, someone that they can trust, someone that they know preferably or get to know. And so, you know, that's why our model, we have 230 locations, is different, because um we don't think that just being in one or two spots and trying to sell nationally would work. We we want to be in the communities, we want to be local, you want to give back. I think people appreciate that still and and still go to the local insurance broker. Um, especially, you know, we look in suburban and rural areas, and you know, maybe the Toronto area, people are fine with digital and stuff, but you know, some of the towns where you guys are at in Atlanta, Canada, and some of the towns in Alberta and Ontario, they prefer just to get in the car, drive to Main Street, and speak to the person across the way, right, if they have a problem, right? So I think that hasn't changed. It's the relationship business it was back then. How you get those customers probably has changed the most.

SPEAKER_02: 14:15

That actually is a really good segue into kind of the next part that we wanted to like talk about, which is breaking the stereotype um of insurance. Uh as everybody knows, you know, there's a lot of uh negative uh stereotypes that focus around insurance people. Why don't you like kind of walk us through why insurance isn't just about policies and premiums?

SPEAKER_00: 14:39

Yeah, I mean, if you step back and and really um what is insurance for, like people can't own businesses, people can't own homes, uh, people can't drive without insurance. That's just a fact. Yeah. And so you need it. And it's a necessary evil, if you will say. It's a product that you buy and spend quite a bit of money because it is expensive, and you hope you never use the product, right? That's the premise of insurance.

SPEAKER_01: 15:09

Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:10

You're gonna pay a thousand bucks or whatever it is to get protection, which is really peace of mind. And you hope you never use that product. Because if you do, that means you had a car accident, you've had a fire, you had a burglary, you had a water loss, whatever. I mean, same with the business, right? And so you you you're willing to spend some money to give you peace of mind that night if that happens, um, that you're protected, right? And so, but you wish you never use it. And so, you know, it's a different product. When I spend a thousand bucks on a bike or something, it's because I'm looking forward to getting home and using it. And here we are saying, we hope never use it. So I think just the premise of insurance sometimes is tough. That's why people are like, I can't believe that it costs this much, and and so forth. But I can tell you, because I've I I've been out to some claims just as in my roles, man, people are grateful. Uh, when something does happen, and then they call you and say, you know, I just had a fire and and this burned down, and we say, Don't worry, it's all covered. I mean, you we we only see that like 8-9% of the time, because I think the a statistic is nine percent of the uh people have claims 10%, right? But to see someone's face, um, and it goes I go back to wow, 1987 with all state, and I had I was selling life insurance 1988, and I got a a note from uh uh a younger woman in her 40s, she lost her husband um tragic accident. And she just sent me a note saying um she appreciated I had sold her a life insurance and it was their first life insurance policy. And I remember selling it to them, and and the husband was just pissed at me. Because I was taught, you know, when you when you uh selling life insurance, make sure most guys back, you know, when they're young, they they're fearless, they they um think they'll never die. They were invincible. I think that too, so when I was young, right? And so, but it's the woman who had the kids who was like, no, no, we need it dear, we need it sweetie. She kind of pushed him into it, and he probably gave me a couple looks, like, what the hell are you doing, man? And um, but she sent me a note, and now it was tragic in that you know he passed on early, but she says, if I didn't have this, I don't know what I would have done. And so thank you. Um, you know, it was a couple months later. I I remember, I kept that that note. And and you know, I don't do life insurance anymore, I do P and C as you guys know, but I've always in the back of my mind remembered that note. And um, you know, we're here to help people. I know it's just a slogan, but you know, if you you look at our purpose at at Broker, like we're here to help people, that's it. Um, sometimes that's forgotten through all the all the stuff you go through, you know, price increases, the missed appealing here and there. You you guys know, I mean, it's tough for customers, but when you peel it all back and something happens, um most people are just grateful that they had it. And yes, it's gonna be tough to get back and rebuild and stuff, but at least they don't have to worry how, right?

SPEAKER_01: 18:21

100%. Yeah. You know, in general, the wide variety of career options within the insurance industry. Um, you know, it's not just selling insurance, obviously. And how do you think um young professionals or any professional, even if they come into the insurance industry at 40 or 50, um, you know, how could professionals develop and get into leadership roles, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00: 18:42

The nice thing about insurance careers, first of all, most people fall into it by accident. I think we said that at the beginning. But it is a relationship business, and there are so many avenues you can go into today. You don't even want, you know, you if you don't want to sell insurance because the pure thought of selling insurance with that, which I think is pretty cool, but if that for whatever reason turns you off, we have digital, we have SEO experts, SEM experts. We have finance people, we have communications staff, we have a marketing team, uh, we have HR professionals, we have legal, and we have leaders, managers. If you want to lead people, you know, it would it help to have insurance background? Absolutely, but if you're a strong leader, we can develop you courses and stuff that you can lead people. Um, so it's it's endless the opportunity. So you don't have to sell insurance to be successful. Uh, I did it because I enjoyed it, and I think it's made me a better leader because it's I understand the journey of a an account executive, what it takes to build a book, what it takes to sell a policy. Some people like, you know, that's not hard. It's hard to keep customers. That's really hard. And I went through that, so I think it makes me a better leader, understanding that. But you absolutely can be a good leader without going through that as long as you learn the business, right? Um, but it's endless the opportunities.

SPEAKER_01: 20:16

What advice do you have for people that don't think insurance is an exciting career?

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

Or like uh that that's they just don't know uh much about it, like I didn't know much about it. I thought when I answered that ad, I'll be there for two years and get a resume going and I can do other things. And 35 year later, I'm still in it. I people that accidentally get into insurance, they they stay in insurance. That's why you see people having 20, you know, 30, 40-year careers. So um it's recession proof. Whether we're in a recession or in good times, people need insurance. So you're you know, when when there's a hard times, you get you know different companies, whether they're telecommunications or banks or something, there's layoffs. We don't because we always need insurance. So it's recession proof if you're young, but you can go into different verticals, um, not just sales. And it's a people business, and every day is different. And if you enjoy people, then wow, what a business to be in, right? So those are three things reasons why I think young people coming out of university should think, wow, maybe I don't know about it, but maybe I should learn about it before I decline to even explore it, right? You all to yourself to explore where you will be happy, and um it's a good living, right? I mean, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 21:41

You it it's interesting to say that you were gonna be in there uh for only two years, and and the fact that you also said it was it was it's a people business because I do know that uh this industry has also given you one of your closest friends, uh, you know, in in just in your personal life as well. Uh I assume that you you guys met at Allstate.

SPEAKER_00: 22:02

So that's I I have I have three, I mean, you you are they best friends? Absolutely. I have three friends from Allstate that I met in 1985, and I only worked with for four years. We went through everything together. They're still my best buddies now. We we attend all events, weddings, and birthdays, and they're my go-to guys. Um, you know, I got a couple buddies from high school, like everybody does, right? Right. But from my career and all the friendships and relationships I've made since, um, I've mentored quite a few people. I have some VPs now that mentor my daughter. One of my daughters is in the industry, and that's pretty cool because my daughter got to meet them just through me. Um, so people give back. Um, but yeah, I mean, everything I have, including my best friends, if is a result from uh, and things, of course, are as a result of this industry. And I owe it a lot, so I have nothing but uh good things to say about this industry. Um and yeah, for young people that might be listening or looking to when they graduate to absolutely explore it. I I don't think you will regret it.

SPEAKER_02: 24:02

Yeah, I I've I know I've often kind of said that uh even if you come out of school with your with a degree or something, um if you have an insurance license, you'll never be without work.

SPEAKER_00: 24:13

Right. And if you're if you have a work ethic, you'll never starve. Right. If you have a work ethic, there are tools and things we can do where we can get you to make a good living. We we can help that part. You don't have you're not on your own where you know we back then they put you in a room like they did me and said, call a hundred people from this telephone book. That's just not the case today. We uh we spend a lot of money to make the phone ring for our folks. Um, we give them every opportunity to succeed. It's just amount they have to just be willing to come to work and work hard and be disciplined and and and you can have a real good living. You guys know that, but uh if people didn't know that, that's that's all you need, really.

SPEAKER_02: 24:56

That and and that actually is a good kind of also segue to like the next part that we wanted to talk about. You said that you make the phone ring for your folks. So that kind of leads us into a really interesting topic about technology and how it's changed insurance. How do you make the phone ring for your folks?

SPEAKER_00: 25:15

Yeah, I mean, look, um first you need a brand name, right? So we're lucky enough at Brokerlink that we have a good brand name. People recognize it that it's insurance. Uh we've been around since uh 1991. Um the web today, right? Like anything you need, forget insurance for a second, but anything you need, the first thing I do when I'm looking for something, you know, right now I I I was uh just looking for some uh shades, blinds for one of our rooms. I went to the internet and I Googled uh blinds near me, um, and then it shows up five businesses, right? For auto insurance, it's the same thing. People shop auto insurance like auto insurance near me, right? And so our size and scale allows us to do so many things that others don't. And so we get 40,000 hits to our website every single month. Wow. 40,000. So we push those leads, people that are asking, you know, some aren't asking just insurance, some that some are just coming to see what's on. But the ones that are saying, I'm interested in getting some insurance or I have a problem with insurance or whatever. Now we push those to our insurance advisors, to our our sales teams, and to our account executives. We never had that back then, so that's one way. We we spend quite a bit of money on generating marketing leads, and then we use our data to make sure that our customers are protected. Um so if somebody has auto insurance, we talk to them about their home, of course, and and we push that. So we push from different places, and we're lucky enough to to be um to have a parent company that helps us with their uh when they have customers that call because they're a manufacturer and and gives us some leads from there. So you put all that together, and we have more than uh leads than we like. It's a wonderful thing to have, but we we make our phones ring all day. We get 15,000 calls a day. Not all sales, of course, is service, a lot of service in there, but um that's what happens when you have a good reputation of getting getting good service, that you people are trust trusting your brand, and that when they contact you, um you follow through and you give them the right coverage and things like that. We have choice. So we have over a hundred markets, which is will fit anybody's needs with the a company that fits their needs. So we have all the ingredients to do that, and um, that's why I say somebody wants to get into business. And you know, um, when I was young, I wanted to make money. I'm gonna be very honest with you. It was it wasn't anything notable. I was just I could I want to make a lot of money, and that's why I went into sales because someone convinced me if if you work hard. And I I remember sitting down with my sales manager on a piece of paper, he's like, How much do you want to make this year? That was my first sales kind of lesson. I go, What are you talking about? And he's like, How much do you want to make this year, right? And so I threw out a number and he said, Okay, you work backwards. I'm sure you guys have done that routine. And if you work backwards, let's say it was 50k back then. Okay, the average premium is this, the average commission is this. That means you're gonna sell three out of 10 calls, and you have to do 100 calls to get 10 calls. He's like, Okay, you got to do 82 calls a day or 120 calls a week, and you can make your 50k. And he says, I can guarantee you you will if you stay disciplined. So just throw out a number and how much can you make and work backwards and put the effort in. So that was kind of straightforward for me, right?

SPEAKER_01: 28:58

Yeah, getting into uh this new world of AI and automation and all that fun stuff. I'm sure you spend a lot of time just kind of navigating through this new uh evolution. I mean, what are your thoughts and feelings on it of how it's going to impact customers and employees?

SPEAKER_00: 29:14

I think first and foremost, um we're we're in an era where cybersecurity is the for me top of mind, whatever we do. Um there is a lot of um there's a lot of bad actors out there that um you know you have to make sure that your your systems is protected, that all the customers' um information is private. And so as we get into AI and use more technology, we you've got to have a very strong first line of defense. I think all brokers, no matter what size, small, big, medium, need to make sure that they're protecting their data and their customers' data. I think that's first and foremost in today's world. After that, it's wow, the possibilities, right? Like we've introduced AI in our operation, as you guys know. Um an AI can now renew, can review someone's policy and compare it to their new policy in about 30 seconds, come up with the coverage differences and say to one of our insurance advisors, this you know, Mr. Smith's uh new policy went up$100, and here's why, boom, boom, boom. AI can do that now. Whereas before AI, the insurance advisor would have to review last year's policy, gonna go into the renewal, look at a comparison, and figure it out. We can do and take about 30 minutes. We can now we have now a chat bot that can do that for the insurance advisor quickly. And also say they're missing this, this, and this coverage. So that is pretty cool. We have uh a chatbot. Her name is Brianna on our website. So if a customer wants to chat or wants to do the change, the the chatbot, the AI, can do it for them. One of the coolest things is most brokers are open nine to five, but you know, I do my bills on Sunday night, like at 10 p.m. And if because banking allows me. With us now, because of AI, a customer Saturday night wants to do an address change or see what their bill payment is. They can go into our new Brokerland Connect, which is our new app, and they can look into it with a password, or they can go on the website and say, I want to change, and the chatbot does it, uh, gives it to a person the next day and it's done. So they don't even have to wait till we're open. That's the kind of cool stuff that AI and uh technology allows us to do, right? That's uh yeah, I think it'll next five years it'll revolutionize how brokers operate, but at the end of the day, it won't replace employees because it's we are a people business and Matt or Mike, you have to still talk to the customer across from you. The AI will make your job easier and the experience better and get give you at your fingertips what you need. But at the end of the day, we're still professionals, we're still licensed, and we still have to give that advice that AI can't, right?

SPEAKER_02: 32:18

How do you yeah? I mean, that's kind of an interesting way of like kind of balance that relationship um between like human relationships and digital convenience. Do you see at all that people might prefer to not deal with people like customers? Do you see that at all?

SPEAKER_00: 32:36

I I think they start, I think they do their research now without people. So they you know, and I'm thinking especially the younger generation. Like my my daughter, one of my daughters, she's 28, she doesn't talk on the phone, she doesn't pick up the phone and talk, she texts, right? She doesn't even email anymore. Let's just be honest. So I think this generation is not even the young generation, what we're seeing more of is someone is thinking of shopping for auto, they go on the internet and they put in all their stuff in different companies and say, give me a quote. But at the end of the day, before they hit bind, first of all, most can't offer that. But even if they could, they pick up the phone because it's legal contract. They want to make sure that they've got the right coverages. And you can't do that digitally without talking to somebody. You know, for me, maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I still think before I sign on my home insurance and my auto insurance, I want to, if I wasn't in the business, I'm gonna want to talk to someone that's licensed and a professional, just like you would a bank or financial planner to say, hey, before I hit the button to buy this policy for 2,000, did I pick the right coverages? Am I covered properly? Did I miss anything? I still that I still think that is predominantly happens. And that's why people in that's why our folks are are needed when customers get to that. Now they've done a whole bunch of research that in the past they wouldn't have. So you have a much more educated consumer and they know the ballpark pricing and stuff. But at the end of the day, they still want to talk to a licensed professional to get the best advice before they sign on the dollar line.

SPEAKER_02: 34:14

And you you can you can let me know if you agree with this or not, but I kind of have a belief that a big saving, like on top of everything you said, uh, a big saving grace, uh, why people still really matter is because when something goes wrong, people like to yell at people. It's not quite as satisfying yelling at a robot.

SPEAKER_01: 34:35

Yeah. I get mad at my computer more than I get mad at any person, though. I'll try to get mad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:42

I hope a lot of people aren't yelling at us, but um yeah, like I think like even the claims, you can start a claim online, but you're gonna get a call pretty quick and say, hey, yeah, I just uh I just made a claim online. Now tell me when I somebody's coming to my house, who's coming to my house, and when's my house gonna get fixed, right? Right. Because at the end of the day, that's what we're delivering on is that uh that promise to to put them back where they started. And so um I just think people understand the importance, you know, we're talking about like someone's home is their their most their biggest asset, probably, right? It's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they just don't want to rely on a on a chatbot or artificial intelligence to make sure that it's covered. And you know, at the end of the day, I I I still think people what we sell is peace of mind. Yeah, that's what insurance is, is peace of mind that if something happens, we got you, and um you don't get peace of mind without talking to an individual that's looks across from you and looks in your eyes and says, it's covered, right? Uh I don't think any machine can do that.

SPEAKER_01: 35:51

Yeah, fair. So where do you think I I mean in terms of other brokerages, how do you think brokerlink is kind of staying ahead of the curve on this?

SPEAKER_00: 35:59

I know that's something you work hard on, so I think our scale allows us to do things that other brokers can't, not that they don't want to, because you know, we're just talking about AI. It's expensive. And so we're lucky enough with our scale to be efficient, um, to be more efficient because of sheer numbers. We have more markets. We have a hundred markets, and so you know, a small broker might have five, six markets, so we have way more choice so that we can fit the customers' needs into a little, little box compared to these five or six, right? So scale allows you to do way more. I think that's first. Um, I think second, I'm biased, and so people will laugh at this one. I still think we have one of the most talented teams in the industry. And so our our structure is a huge advantage. We're in 240 towns across Canada. That's pretty cool when you look at it. We're not just in one town, we're not just in one province, we're in 240 communities. And um, our people live in those communities, so you'll see them at the supermarket. They're not going to hide from you. They know you, they play in their community, you know, with the kids and stuff, so you get to know them. And we give back to the community. I I think over the last 10 years, we've given back over 5 million through United Way back into communities and things like that. So I think that's a pretty good value proposition that we have. I'm not saying it's better than other brokers, but it's unique to us because of our size and scale. And so that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01: 37:39

Cool. Um, yeah, so we'll just get on to another section here. Now, we'll try not to get you any trouble here, but these are like some of the things where, you know, we kind of want to know like, what are some of your biggest pain points in the industry today? What would you want to see kind of change about the insurance industry as a whole?

SPEAKER_00: 37:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 37:56

If you had a magic wand.

SPEAKER_00: 37:59

I look, I think um, without giving into trouble or anything, and this is not rocket science, but you know, connectivity with markets is uh is a pain point. We're we're behind other industries, and you know, some people have to double entry, triple entry. So technology not in a broker's office, but between the broker and the manufacturer, between the broker and the insurance company could could absolutely be improved. Now everybody has their own unique system, but you know, like if we want to do a commercial quote, we have to go into three or four systems if we want to and is I mean that's I don't know if that'll ever be solved, I'll be honest with you. Everybody's more proprietary, but there's not an uh an industry uh um solution right now. It could change with AI and things like that. So there there are things in in that make it tougher on on brokers than other industries. Um other than that, I I just think it's a great it's a great uh community. I I find hard to pick at well, not perfect, and and no industry is, but um there's care for people I've found. I've worked four or five companies too before my IFC days, right? So it's not like I'm just looking at it at a lens from the company I've worked for the last 25 years, but there's a care for people uh in this industry. It's a s even though it's a big industry, it's a small industry, you get to know people, and and and there are values. Um, you know, you guys know we have values at Brokerlink, but the whole industry is a small community and they take care of themselves. And even though it's hard competition and you want to win and beat the guy across the street, but there's respect at the end of the day, and and we get along. And so I I just think it's so cool. I I I don't look at it as what issues do we have more so than um where we're at. Maybe the other thing I would say is um is the regulation.

SPEAKER_03: 40:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:16

You know, maybe because I'm a more free capitalist, but um I think some provinces should open it up and let brokers and insurance companies compete more. I think companies and brokers can win on service and technology and experience uh and pricing rather than having regulators um tell us you know, this, this, and that, and regulating our products quite heavily in some provinces. So I think that could be better, but um, I understand it. You know, they want it to be affordable, but I think an open market will make it affordable because people have to compete harder.

SPEAKER_02: 40:54

Yeah, I mean, BC uh has probably the highest insurance rates in the country, and they have one insurer, that's the government. So yeah. So it is there anything like outside of like open it up, is there any other like regulatory thing that you'd like to change in the industry, like where it's kind of like uh I wish they didn't really like bring that in or you know, or go back to something before, or yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 41:20

Yeah, I I'll keep that to myself for now. I don't want to get on the wrong side of some folks that I'm gonna be end up talking to in a couple weeks about. I I do have a few things in my mind that I would like to see changed. I'm gonna be honest with you. Um I think as a as an advisor, if someone hires a broker to take care of their insurance needs, the broker, in conjunction with the customer, should be able to make changes. Um and especially if the if the customer agrees that let the broker speak on my behalf. You know, right now um the regulations hide your hands on you can't send if you think a customer has to have a uh a water change, for example, you have to talk to the customer where it, you know, I think it should be a bit more open where the customer gives you the right to say, hey, if there's a change, I trust you to give me the coverage, and it's not negative optioning and stuff like that. It's hard to call a million customers and tell them, oh, this is a little change, and will you give me permission to add it? I think that has to flow more naturally, especially for bigger brokers who have big clients and maybe can't get to every single one, but are still acting in the best interest of their clients, right?

SPEAKER_02: 42:36

How do you how do you feel that uh DCPD direct compensation has changed the industry? I'm not gonna comment on that one.

unknown: 42:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 42:48

I think I think if I comment, it's I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't.

SPEAKER_02: 42:52

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00: 42:52

That's fair.

SPEAKER_02: 42:54

It's true. It's a debatable topic in the insurance world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:58

Well, you look at um in Ontario, we're gonna get reform in 2026, and in Alberta, the form's coming in 2027, and that's that's gonna take thousands and thousands of hours for both uh insurance companies and brokers to explain to their their clients, and there's gotta be an easier way.

SPEAKER_01: 43:23

Right. So, another question now, customer education, I mean your client education. How do you feel that is today? And do you feel like it could be something better, and there's something better we all could be doing in terms of making sure our clients understand their product?

SPEAKER_00: 43:39

I I think absolutely that is a gap. Um, I'm not sure anybody does it really, really well. I think it's a balance because you know, we can send out, we have the automation to send out a newsletter once a week, once a month, once a quarter, once a year. Yeah. But you also have to respect the customer where is that junk mail to them? And they're yeah, like I'm in the industry, and when my renewal comes and it's this thick, you guys, I throw it in, I look at the price, how much it went up, yeah, I look at what my monthly payment is, and then I throw the entire, I rip up the pink slips from the one page, and then I throw the entire document into my desk, and I don't look at it again. Now, I'm in the industry, so I know what's covered, what's not, but 90% of the people aren't in the industry, they get this big, huge contract.

SPEAKER_01: 44:36

Nobody reads them. It's scary when somebody does and they call you page by page and they want to talk about it. You're surprised, right? You're surprised in that. You're scared, you don't know what to do. Yeah, you're like, oh gosh. So you're reading it with them.

SPEAKER_00: 44:47

Yeah, the good thing is they trust their broker.

SPEAKER_01: 44:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 44:50

Do that for them. And good brokers, the the people trust them, they should, and that's great, and that's why you keep customers, right?

SPEAKER_01: 44:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 44:59

So, what is that balance where we want to educate our consumers, but still not give them junk me, or they say, you know what, you're my professional advisor, you you let me know, and then that's it, right? Now, I think where we some companies do better than others is mitigation. Like some companies now warn you there's going to be a storm coming, or you better do this so there's not a sewer backup. Here are some interesting tips. Get your uh home ready for the winter. Do this to prevent water loss, do this to prevent, you know. Those things I think can can do better, but we've got to find a way to get to that customer so that they look at it on their time and their way. So it's no longer sending, remember the bulk mails where you send a pamphlet or something? Nope, that's garbage. That's gonna go right into the recycling, and nobody's gonna look at it. But can I push something digitally to all my customers and say, hey, in Atlantic Canada, we are we are looking like in a week that we're gonna get a huge remnant from a hurricane or some flooding, do this, this, and this, like an alert. I think that would be cool. I would at least read it and say, okay, am I in the path or not? And do I need to do anything, right? So those are things that I think the brokers and the companies that do that better and reach the customer the way they want to be reached, I think they'll separate themselves from those that don't. And for us, it's to, you know, we've collected everybody's texts and emails, and for us now is to say, okay, hey, what's the right amount of balance that we'll send you? And where do when do you want to be notified? And so, you know, force fires, right? Like they didn't exist to the extent they do today, right? 34 years ago, with climate change and everything else. And so we can be an alert. I mean, you know, we can say, hey, might not come to you, but right now it's how many kilometers away from you? Here's some of the things you can do proactively to to put yourself in the best place possible, right? I mean, so there are different things we can do. Um, we've got to find the right balance and say, okay, how do we reach that customer?

SPEAKER_01: 47:19

Right on. Now, Joe, we want to respect your time and the hour. So, Matt, if you're cool with it, I think it's a good time to move along to our 10 questions round.

SPEAKER_02: 47:27

We, I just I just have one last question for Joe before we do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Is uh just uh because I kind of want to leave like the big chat on there. So 25-year-old starts working in the insurance industry today, right? And they look up to Joe and they're like, Holy smokes, how do I get to be the president of a company someday? That's the way I want to work up. Outside of the classic, just work hard. What's the advice that you give them of like how does someone go from starting to to Joe?

SPEAKER_00: 47:55

Yeah, I mean, I never thought I'd be president of a company. Come on. There's so much involved, including luck and being at the right, yes, hard work for sure, but I'm gonna tell you guys a funny story. Um, and then I'll tell you what they think they should do. Um, I failed kindergarten. Okay. And I got to be president of one of the biggest brokers in Canada. That's pretty cool. So when I mentor kids now, I I start with that. Um, I I came from Italy when I was two and a half years old, and my parents didn't know many people, so they surrounded themselves with other Italians. So until I went to kindergarten, I didn't speak English because nobody could teach me. And so I I, you know, we were in a in an area where there is a lot of Italian population in Niagara Falls, where I went to school. And so in kindergarten, there's probably eight of us that were of Italian descent in similar shoes as I am, and then other kids, and the eight of us got uh whatchamacallit. Back then they failed you, but they they they left you back for a year. So the rest of the class went to grade one and we had to repeat kindergarten. I wasn't dumb, I just didn't know the language, and it took a little longer. So, but I start with that story. I'm president of a pretty cool company right now, and I failed kindergarten. So I think the lesson there for me is anybody can do it. Now, you need a lot of luck, you need a lot of mentoring, you need to do a lot of things. The tips I would give someone young, 25 is put your head down, take risk, learn the business, whatever it is, insurance, automotive, whatever you're going into, learn it really well. And take risks in your career. You know, take an assignment here, get transferred here, look at try to get all the experiences you can that makes you understand the world that you're working in much better. And then with some luck and some success, who knows? Anyone can get to where I got. That's that's that's how I would explain that.

SPEAKER_01: 49:59

It's a great answer.

SPEAKER_00: 50:00

Great answer.

SPEAKER_01: 50:01

All right, now we're going to get to some questions. Some of these are smart, some of these are silly, okay? So they're just fun curves.

SPEAKER_00: 50:07

You're doing really good on silly. I don't know about the smart ones.

SPEAKER_01: 50:09

All right, okay. So, Matt, I'll kick it off, bud. Um, okay, Joe, the first job you ever had.

SPEAKER_00: 50:16

Oh, laundry for a whole motel, doing laundry for a motel.

SPEAKER_01: 50:20

Right on. Okay, where's that at in Ontario?

SPEAKER_00: 50:23

Niagara Falls, big uh hotels, but big uh visitor, uh, whatchamacallit tourists. Oh, yeah. 13 years old doing laundry for uh 28-room motel. My mom was the chambermaid, I was the laundry person.

SPEAKER_01: 50:36

Oh, that's cool. Right on, all right.

SPEAKER_02: 50:39

Question number two. So, what is a risk that you took that really paid off?

SPEAKER_00: 50:45

Uh, I left a real good job to start a brokerage from scratch with three others. And no money.

SPEAKER_01: 50:56

No money, okay, and no bunny parts, the scary part there. My gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 51:02

Starting a broker from total scratch.

SPEAKER_01: 51:05

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 51:05

You have to raise money, everything.

SPEAKER_01: 51:07

Right, yeah. Your opinion, what's the most underrated Canadian city and why?

SPEAKER_00: 51:14

Underrated city. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01: 51:20

Could be anywhere in Canada, just surpass your expectations.

SPEAKER_00: 51:23

You know what? Um I'm gonna go back to uh I'm gonna I'm gonna do a province because it's as big as a city. Prince Edward Island. We we went there with my family uh and spent a week there. It was so peaceful, so relaxing. I we thought we were back in the 70s. Um what a cool place. And I I know it's a province and not a city, but it's it's small, and we saw a lot. We had some great seafood, but we connected as a family, played board games and stuff because there were you know, we had rented a house near the water there. There wasn't a lot to do, there was no nightlife. We weren't right in the like Vancouver's a cool city, Toronto. They're all cool cities, but man, that was just just connecting, and that was a real cool experience for me. So that one comes to mind.

SPEAKER_02: 52:16

That's a great answer. So, question number four if you were an animal, what animal would you be?

SPEAKER_01: 52:25

Lion. Lion, okay, lion, all right.

SPEAKER_00: 52:30

I'm gonna be king of the jungle.

SPEAKER_01: 52:31

There you go. Okay, are you a beer guy, wine guy, cocktail? What's what's your drink of choice? This is uh founding on beer.

SPEAKER_00: 52:41

I'm all you know what, this is uh it's not this isn't a sellout, it's it's the truth. I'm uh all three.

SPEAKER_03: 52:46

Oh, yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 52:47

With my buddies on a hot afternoon, pound a couple beers, no problem. Go to a nice dinner restaurant, a couple couples, nice glass of wine. And um when you're really having fun, like they did uh where was I? Uh, we were at a wedding and a couple of my best friends were there. We did some pounded some shots and cocktails. Good stuff. Good stuff. I think it's because I'm not a big drinker, I'm a social drinker, and so it depends on the audience and what I'm doing and where I'm at. So I don't discriminate.

SPEAKER_02: 53:22

That's great. Question number six. Uh, what is a movie or book that you really enjoyed this year? This year.

SPEAKER_00: 53:33

If I go back a few years, yeah, sure. Um there's um I like um I like movies that are based on uh real life, but they they add some drama to it. And so um, I watched it a couple years ago. It's an older movie. Have you guys ever watched Invincible with Mark Wahlberg? Yep. Based on just a normal Joe guy went on as a walk-up, a walk-up at a Philadelphia Eagles camp. No college, no university ball, nothing, just high school, and made the team. And Disney did a movie on the story, and um, it's just one where you know someone worked their ass off and threw all kinds of doubters and stuff and still got to play in the NFL for a couple years. Just uh a feel-good I'm not getting all mushy, but it's it's it's just a feel-good movie.

SPEAKER_02: 54:30

It was a great movie. It hurt my soul as a Patriots fan to see another Patriots fan play of character who played for the Eagles, but other than that, great. Yeah. Mike 97, over to you.

SPEAKER_01: 54:43

Yeah, something you're surprisingly bad at. Something you just suck at doing. It could be any in any any any facet of life.

SPEAKER_00: 54:52

Yeah, reading my reading my wife. I get into so much trouble because I'm like, I shouldn't have said that, right?

SPEAKER_02: 55:02

I don't think that's necessarily specific to you, but sure.

SPEAKER_00: 55:06

Yeah, that's what I suck at. Sometimes I read totally wrong, and uh, yeah, okay. Missed on that one. I have I I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this. My two girls when we were growing up, they would text me, Dad, mom got her hair done, just remark at dinner that it's there. So they always had my back, which is kind of cool, but that stuff just gets just flies right over my head. I just wouldn't think of stuff like that, right?

SPEAKER_02: 55:30

All right, so question number eight, and this is really important. So you've been in risk management pretty much you know, that career most of your life. How much would you wager that the Blue Jays are gonna win the World Series?

SPEAKER_00: 55:46

You want a percentage instead of a dollar amount? Sure, sure. However, you want to answer. I think they're going. I I would I I would wager high percentage that they're gonna go to the World Series. I'm uh like you know, they just crushed the Yankees, and um Yeah, it was wonderful watching last night. I I think they'll they have a huge leg up on whether it's Seattle, Detroit. I think they'll crush them. I am worried about the Dodgers, guys. Okay, that team is that team is just based on money. Like they're you know, their payrolls, I don't know how many hundreds of millions more than everybody else, because baseball is one of the few sports without a cap left, right? And so that one worries me, but you know what? So what? I'd like I give them a 50-50% chance of winning against the Dodgers. If it's any of the other teams, like if the Dodgers get upset, uh I like I like their chances. I I I think they got some mojo going. I think they're like a team of destiny, nobody expected them. So I'm hoping, guys.

SPEAKER_01: 56:44

Good answer. We're all hoping. Yeah. One of your favorite meals. This could be from any type part of the world.

SPEAKER_00: 56:52

Oh, yeah. A meal? Like a favorite meal. I'm a big pasta guy.

SPEAKER_01: 56:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:57

My my waist says to me you can't eat it a lot. But man, good pasta, yeah. Something in particular, like a plate. No, my my wife actually makes homemade pasta with the machine now. She learned that's mom, which is oh, cool. That is just a melts in your mouth when it's fresh. Yeah, 100%. Way better.

SPEAKER_01: 57:16

Milky, how's that for a oh yeah, yeah. A kid loves that now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:23

So, question number 10 before we get to the last call here. So, why kind of quickly sum it up? Why do you feel that people should consider working in insurance?

SPEAKER_00: 57:34

No regrets. No regrets. Okay. Sorry, just to sum it up, you'll have no regrets.

SPEAKER_01: 57:42

Awesome. I like it. Cool. All right, this is what we uh we call this the last call. It's a question we ask every one of our guests. I don't know how many episodes we're in now. 125, Matt, roundabout? 125? Something like that, yeah. Okay. So we uh we say, What's one piece of advice you were given in your life um that you'd like to share with us and others listening today?

SPEAKER_00: 58:02

Yeah, um just be kind. Um, you don't know what people are going through or their journey. People struggle, don't know where they're coming from. And I think this world is just too quick to now judge and hate. I someone once told me just be kind. They told me if you walk into a room of a hundred people and everybody puts their problems in a bucket, you wish that you took yours back, probably 99% of the times. Because people are going through. So I just be I think unfortunately in today's world, be kind is kind of the minority. So it's it's simple, but I I think it's it's more appropriate today than it has ever been.

SPEAKER_01: 58:51

Agreed. Love it. Yeah, yeah. Well, Joe, this was awesome. Uh cheers to you, my friend. This was a great conversation. And thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. And uh come back for a second round any time. There you go. We appreciate it. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_00: 59:10

Take care, okay.