Dustin O'Leary On Establishing Trust In Nova Scotia's Gold Mining Sector

Nova Scotia has big resource potential, but the real question is whether we can turn opportunity into outcomes without repeating the mistakes that still haunt the province. We talk with Dustin O’Leary, a Nova Scotian working in gold mining business development, about what “responsible mining” has to mean if communities are ever going to trust it again.

We get specific about the parts people argue over most: reclamation bonds, who pays when a mine shuts down, and why the legacy of a project can’t be “a hole in the ground.” Dustin walks us through how modern operators plan closure, what it costs to reclaim a site, and why older abandoned sites still shape public opinion today. We also dig into the rural side of economic development, the urban-rural divide, and why the Eastern Shore could see real job growth if projects are designed to deliver local benefit.

Then we go one level deeper with a forward-looking idea: using a mined-out pit as part of a closed-loop pumped hydro energy storage system. It’s a practical way to support renewable energy and grid reliability while reusing already disturbed land, and it could extend the value of a mine site for decades. Along the way we talk consultation with Mi’kmaq communities, the limits of “talk,” and what changes would help Nova Scotia move from debate to credible action.

If you care about Nova Scotia mining, environmental reclamation, renewable energy storage, and what sustainable economic development could look like here, you’ll want this one. Subscribe, share it with a friend who argues about resources, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Welcome to the afternoon plaint. I'm Mike Tobin. I'm Matt Conrad.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I'm Dustin O'Leary. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Thank you, Dustin, for coming by. Not to be confused with Kevin O'Leary.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

If I was related to him, I would not be with you boys right now.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

No, but that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Oh that's fair. Well, I'm happy you're here nonetheless.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

That's okay, man. So, Dustin, tell me a little bit about yourself. What do you do? So I'm born and raised in Nova Scotia, two degrees from Dalhousie. Went to Dartmouth High, class 98, but right now I'm the manager of business development for St. Barbara Mining, which is an Australian mining company that uh mines gold. Australian mining. Australian. So it's based in Australia. It has two mines. One is over in uh Papua New Guinea. Okay. The other one operated here in Nova Scotia uh until 2023, and then we're hoping to open another one soon. You literally could not put the two mines on a farther spot from the in the world from one another. So there's a like literally the quickest way would be to borrow a whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

What's the rational behind that? Australia and then Canada, do you think? Or Australia and then Nova Scotia.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So the company that I started for actually was a company called Atlantic Gold, and in 2019 they were purchased by St. Barbara, the Australian uh mining company. Mining has a lot of consolidation at times, so and and sort of as the stages go through in your your development of a mine, you've often find that there's you know companies who sort of take over and purchase as it goes along just because they have the strength to do something better than the other company did. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

And in mining development, what would it mean for in your industry?

Rebuilding Mining After Past Harms

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well it's funny, I'm still learning it as I go along, right? The one thing about this province is that mining really took a long break after you know the West Ray tragedy. And um we're still, you know, we're we started back up our mine at Tucoy, which is just located in Moose River, just outside of Middle Muskadob, but was the first mine that really started back up properly after after that in you know in 2018, right? So so a lot for me, a lot of mining development is working with you know, with industry partners, with government, with First Nations, with community to make sure that we we put the pieces in place to be able to operate the future of our business effectively and and do it in a way that respects the environment and respects you know the community and the wishes of of all the stakeholders and rights holders and everybody around us.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I think that's really important because I mean, you know, when everyone thinks of mining, obviously you're right, the the West Ray tragedy obviously is a thing. But moving forward, we know now that like you know 30 some odd years later we have better things, we have better ways of doing it now. But there is still that worry about you know working with land and not impacting the environment, not impacting the land around and everything. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Absolutely. And and if I can just add to that, like I think you know, mining doesn't have an incredibly wonderful story to tell in the province, especially when it comes to what is left over after the mining is done. So you know, you look at the Sydney tarpons and you look at you know you look at areas where where government has been, you know, sort of tasked because they've been the the owner of it after the mining company leaves to clean it up. And we're still in that situation now where you've got the province looking at 60 some odd former sites that they have to that that they're taking on the now.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Since then though, there's been a there's been like laws put in place where they have to return it back to a more natural environment. Is that not correct?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

There is. So for example, for for St. Barbara on the Tucoy mine, we have an$80 million what they call reclamation bond in front of the with that sits with the provincial government that basically says you work on the reclamation bond, assuming that the company isn't there to clean it up. What would it cost if you were had to get other companies to come in and do it for you? Right. And that bond is what sits with the province. And then the idea is that the company goes ahead and reclaims themselves and gets part of the reclamation bond back as they do the work, right? So so actually we've the our company has spent about$20 million. I think it's a little higher than 18, but uh somewhere around$20 million in reclamation at the Tucoy site since its closure in 2023. And that's that's supposed to incentivize the company, right? Like the idea is you're paying, if you can do it for cheaper than what it would cost to get it done by somebody outside. You get that money back. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But and and unfortunately, the reclamation bond hasn't been in place, or I think probably more appropriately, hasn't really been calculated properly for a long time. So it's it's created the situation, I think, a lot of the time, where the the provincial government specifically is left holding the bag.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

I know we have a couple locations in the like with quarries and stuff like that around the province where they've done a good job of kind of fixing them up. Like I know there's one down in like lower prospect kind of area where I'm from. It's like a there's an old quarry that now is a lake. Same up, there's a really popular lake, uh, and it's escaping right now. But in Cape Breton, I know it's very popular, and it's a like it's a tourist site now to go and climb and take pictures in and swim and everything, but it used to be a mine.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Even the cabinet links is like a lot of the area around there is reclaimed mine sites. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there is there is there are good stories to tell, and but we need you know, you need proponents to step up and take accountability for for the disturbance that they've caused. And yeah, I know. And and you know, I can't speak for every company. Uh the only thing I can say is for ours, we take the responsibility seriously to do that, and we're meeting it, right? So we we don't think you just you just leave.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

No, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

I think I think a lot of people would appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Cool. Before we go any further, Matt, yeah, we unlocked another new location. So tell us, tell people where we are today. So we're on Quimpool, still on Quimpool.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

We've hit up a lot of places on Quimpool. Knocking on doors, going down the street here. Yeah. We're at jellies, as anyone who's watching right now can see. This is a pretty unique place. Yeah. Uh they have jellyfish, you know, and you know, phallic uh decorations as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

A few interesting symbols in here, I will say.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

You guys bring me to all the best places, but I like I like this. This is great. Yeah, this is an interesting place, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:16

So good vibes all around. It looks like a fun spot, yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So, yeah, we want to thank them for letting us host uh absolutely yeah. They they came in early to let us do this, you know, and not have a bunch of people here.

Growth Talk Versus Real Projects

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Always appreciate that. So, like, really the theme of this episode, I kind of wanted to talk about Nova Scotia, it's economic potential, yeah. Mining. We're in a weird place right now. Like, it feels like we're talking about all these grand ideas. We see stuff happen, you know, in the news. We've heard of wind energy, we've heard of nuclear energy, we've heard of mining opportunities, tidal power, tidal power, gosh, how many? And I mean, we do have some mining and other stuff that's starting to come back to the province. Right. Are we still in the just talking about stage, or do you feel like actions being taken? How do you feel about where we are right now with all the conversations that are going on in the media?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Like, what a great question that is, right? That that are we talking or are we doing? Yeah. Yeah. I think you know, from the mining side of things, and and especially from like, you know, when you know you hear the premier talking about Wind West and all these things, the problem is that, you know, in a in a way, you give you have to give him credit that he's he's you know going all in on something that isn't an immediate payoff, right? Because I think too often, especially with you know, with political leaders, you say they're only working towards the next election. And mining projects typically take about 10 to 15 years to get going. Okay, so you're so in a way it's great that you know he's willing to invest in the future. The problem is you the the problems are now, right? Like the budget just had a 1.2 billion dollar with a B deficit, right? So it's how do you how do you manage those two things? I think from a mining perspective, if I look at it, mining is one of the few places where there is actually some short-term potential to grow. So the gold mining perspective, especially, there's another project up in Goldboro, which is just outside or just inside of Guysboro County, which has all of its approvals and is you know is looking at developing. They they say they're going to break ground in sometime in 2026. And then the projects that we're proposing for the Eastern Shore, because it's all along that same trend that they call the Maguma trend, which is you know where where the gold is in the the amount of gold is in the province that is economical to get out is we're probably would be ready to go within the next three years, I would say, before you know, within if everything goes well. But it's tough. It it I think you have to, you know, you have to take a bit of a leap of faith that it's going to pay off and that that it that you will get there. At the same time, it's on proponents too, right? Like we make sure we're part of the community because too many times, especially on the eastern side of this province, things have been promised and and not really delivered. Right. And there's an ability for some short-term benefit, and then there's a real ability if the province stays on course to be what do you what what would these long-term benefits look like for the average Nova Scotia citizen? Well, it depends what you I the average Nova Scotia citizen is is and I and I I hate bringing up old business, but I will say I I did listen to your your podcast with with the NDP leader with a lot of it. Oh, it was a yeah, she was she was fantastic. Great. And I've met with her before a couple times, and and and she's tremendous. One of the things she said was, you know, you guys talked about the urban-rural divide. Yes. And she had said like one of the things that was really going to move that forward was leadership. And and while I don't disagree, one of the things I'll add to it is opportunity, right? So I think for a long time, and I live in Halifax, I love Halifax, but a lot of the opportunity was in Halifax. And if you look at rural Nova Scotia, it needs to feel like they're part of that development. And and the opportunities, I mean, Google isn't putting a home office in, you know, the Glasgow. It's not happening, right? So it's like, where are the opportunities that that rural Nova Scotia can feel the economic benefit? Because I think it's it's it's been it it hasn't necessarily been there for a long time. And I think this this is our our industry and others are one of those ones where you know you're not putting a mine. We're not putting a mine on Quimple Road. No, we're not doing it. So so where can we do that? That that the benefit can be can be felt.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

It's interesting too that you say, like, it seems to be along the eastern shore that uh that you know this is looking like it could be, like that's where our gold rush is and all stuff. I was reading about that too. It seems like 1800 is actually like Nova Scotia was like actually had gold rush like through there.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

There was a there was a huge gold rush between the late 1800s and early 1900s. And actually, the sites that we're developing were sites where the old timers really did it, but they were looking for you know, strikes like like nuggets. And we're we're doing it looking for, you know, we open pit it so that we can we have to process a fair amount of ore to be able to get a little bit of gold. But but the old timers, as we say, frisked it pretty good and uh and got a lot of got a lot of the gold that was there.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Well, it's good that that if like it's gonna be out on the eastern shore, because I think they do need something. Like I and I when I when I say that there's nothing out there, I don't mean it as a slight to them because I love the Eastern Shore. Yeah, I spent a large portion out there, my cousin's cottage was out there for up until like three years ago. So I spent a lot of time out there and I love it out there. But there's nothing out there, right? Uh they don't really have much out there. And like, you know, when you any direction you go in Nova Scotia, you go to the South Shore, there's several nice little towns, like picture picturesque towns with lots of things to do, tourism, same towards the valley, go up to the North Shore, all that stuff. There's not anything in that direction. So this could be an opportunity where you could see a boom with employment and like good paying jobs, all that stuff that if you develop through that area.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Well, in the area where we're, you know, is historically been, has sorry, has historically been an an industrial area, right? Like they have a mining background, they have a background with you know with production of a whole bunch of different goods and they're quite proud of that. Like and and I think one of the things that we have to sort of take into account is that there's a there's a pride in in producing there that that hopefully we can help you know bring back. And there's always going to be people who aren't for it. And there's anything that if you're doing anything big, there's gonna be people who are for it and people who are against it. But but I think you know we the the industrial base of of the province for a long time has been the eastern shore of the province of Nova Scotia. You know, it's funny, I just wanted because it's a good anecdote, is that we always get, you know, that's where the that's where the gold is. And some people will say, well, why don't you move your mine? Well, sorry. That that that you can't really do that, right? So the mines where the oil is, the mines where the gold is. We don't dictate where that is, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:35

So yeah. Have you been looking I mean have you been in communication with the counselors out there to kind of gauge any type of feedback, everything? I mean, I know you you ran yourself. You're you're uh a failed uh candidate like myself.

unknown 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah, there's not a day that goes by that I don't thank everything upstairs that I I I uh I lost that one. But uh but yeah, I I was happy to take the L on that uh as it turns out.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

But uh But have you been working with them? Like is there's two of them, uh two two like districts out that way.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

The the one thing I will say is the amount of like municipal government on the eastern shore is really heavy. So like between towns and counties and and so yeah, we we try our best, and and I mean I've presented this year to one of the town, I think believe that I believe it was the town Stellerton, and then because quite honestly, one of the problems that we run into is that municipalities aren't really ready. You you our job is to build mine, right? And and the the best way it works with mining, especially in this province, is if the benefit is as local as possible. But sometimes they have to be the c communities have to be ready to receive it, right? And oftentimes there's no like Chamber of Commerce or something like that that can sort of help achieve that. So you have to get the local government ready to say, how do we look at what the community needs to be able to benefit the most.

Turning Mine Closure Into Value

SPEAKER_03 15:00

I mean, respectfully, and I mean of the thing. Well you do have me here, but you just I come from the side of of caution of just going into our land, taking stuff out of it, you know, like you say, open pit mining, blowing up parts of our land to extract resources from it. Sure. It all s I mean, it all has environmental consequence. We know this. Yeah, like it's kind of the old song in dance we talk about how we can fix it. Um and even in this this conversation we've just had, we already talked about how that responsibility seems to move around several times and it lands on the government's lap. And what's the benefit here for those people beyond having a job that they can do for five or ten years so that that that mind depletes? We're talking long-term, right? So what's the benefit for them once the that mind's extracted?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

I would like to answer that in two ways. But one is that the legacy of any mine shouldn't be the hole that's left in the ground, right? So yeah. So I think if you look at the example of Tuquoi, the skills that people develop should be transferable. And the problem that we've run into, I think, in a way, is that in the province, you know, our my CEO often says to me, Dustin, to have a mining industry, you need to have a mining industry, right? So, like one of the things that we had is we had 330 employees working at the Tuquoi mine until it had to shutter in 2023. Right. You know, those people went away, right? And so hopefully, if you have more of an industrial base, you have an ability to see movement through and and create, you know, opportunity for individuals through that. But I I will be honest, I've been challenged with the same thing you are. Yeah, that's my notion. What does this look like going forward? Like, how do you do something a little bit better? Because one of the charges that we often take is, well, 10 years, right? You get 10 years, and then what is what's left, right? So we looked at our I look at it as you have a society now that is trying to find ways to do renewable energy, and one of the issues that they run into most is that you have to find a site to do it. And oftentimes the the the paradox you find yourself in is that you're trying to clear pristine land to build a renewable energy station or renewable energy.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

So oh yes, no, and I agree. I I think I think we we hit the same challenges all the time with almost any in a kind of style of innovation or economic challenges, but we have to also try to find ways to do it better than it's been done in the past.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Absolutely. So I I mean our company approached a company by the name of Natural Forces, who's uh a renewable energy developer here in the province, and said, you know, we have this essentially brownfield site. Like what can we do here, right? And and I mean, solar, you can do solar, it's and it is great, and solar is is totally an opportunity. But one of the things you have is you have this big pit, right? You have so we've worked on a plan, we're still working on it. It'll it'll you know, it'll come into more fruition, I think, in a couple of years uh as we move through and the the complexity of the power grid in the province of Nova Scotia right now is I mean difficult. But uh but we're looking at using the the mine pit as the bottom reservoir in what they call a closed-looped hydro energy storage system. Okay so you create a top reservoir at the top, and then or sorry, a containment at the top for water, and then at the time there's drain on the the system, you run the water down, and then when there's excess, you put the water back up and you just run it every day. And it and the system that we're proposing has about 80 megawatts of power that of over six hours that could supply the grid. And it's as opposed to man-made batteries which kind of break down after about 15 years, this would the turbines would need to be replaced about every 40, and you could keep running it into perpetuity. But you know, if you look at it as a 80 or 100-year project, you turn your your 10-year project into 110 years. Yeah, your investors are kind of like, ah, yeah, I'm gonna be dead then. Yeah, I mean it's a different, it's a different world for mining companies because often they're not comfortable in this space, right? We're a mining company, not a renewable energy company. But you have to look at the utility for the province and the people who are here and what is important to them. And creating renewable energy has been a mandate of this government and the previous government. And I think there's you know, the the beauty of it in a way is that you have an already disturbed site. You're not you're not creating something new. You're using or you're not clearing something that's pristine. That's an idea I like, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

But how do you get that like kind of like agreed upon so it actually happens? Like, because I mean that could be the next challenge, right? You would have another shortcoming, because then again, when party A is done, if it goes to the next party, or you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not and I'm not trying to be difficult here. I hope I'm not. I'm just gonna do that. I get your point.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

I guess and it's funny because I'm looking at it, I'm I will freely admit, I'm inside the bubble a little bit, right? Like I'm looking at it as we're gonna make this absolutely happen. I think what I'll say is that mining in this province, as we said earlier, doesn't always have the best reputation of how they end their projects. No, no, they absolutely don't. But for Nova Scotians to invest personally in some of these projects, we're gonna need to do it better. Like the whole industry is gonna need to do it better. Yeah. And Tucoy, the mine in Moose River for me, is the hopefully the start of that, right? Is that you you if you want more mining in this province, you're gonna have to be able to show that the value you add after the mining project is done is just as important as the value you add when it's when it's happening. And I I really want to see that happen because I'm a Nova Scotian too. I I I don't want to leave a mess anywhere for for people to to deal with and and and for the province to deal with. I'm a taxpayer too. I don't want to I'd rather the company that I work for pay for it than uh dollars.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

And I think that's always the biggest thing. Anytime you have when it comes to natural resources, you always have that challenge of trying to satisfy both sides of it the build the drill baby drill side and the but what about the environment side.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

And I don't think it helps to be on either side of it. Fair, yeah, no, exactly. It's about doing it in a way that and the thing that I will say, and that I have to be cognizant of as I go through this. Am I sure I'm gonna walk outside tomorrow and the sun is gonna be shining? No, right? Like I can't say for 100%. No, accidents happen, things do happen. It's about mitigating, it's about being able to be being accountable to clean it up and do, you know, if you have something that happens, but you have to plan in the best way possible so that it doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

But when you when you do all this planning and you do all the succession planning for mines, does that not like negate the investment of the mine the first place? Because that's that's where my head kind of goes. When we we drew all these things to kind of you know fix, you know, fix the investment, fix, fix, fix what we've done, and now we're gonna put in a hydro, like where's the is there still gonna be income along the whole way for people? Like, is it still a viable economic opportunity? Yeah, absolutely. And cool. And I I don't know what I'm asking. I'm asking out of ignorance.

Automation And The Future Workforce

SPEAKER_01 22:17

No, that's a fair question. And what I will say on it like, too bad for companies if you're not willing to have to think about that before you get started. The one thing you should know about a mine before you break ground on it is how you're going to finish it, right? You don't know how you're going to get out of it. Exactly, and and how you're gonna do it in a way that respects what is required. Of you from the regulator, but also what what's the need of the community, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

And I I want to kind of change gears a bit. And and and thank you for answering this because I feel like we're getting a really honest discussion here. Where could these mining jobs be done by something other than humans within a few years, within a decade? I mean, in my opinion, almost a better for everybody scenario when you think about you know the risk of human life. What happens if the the humans we need to work on the project go away before the project breaks the ground?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Wow. There I know like some mines, especially in other parts of the world, certainly use more automated systems, especially for things like hauling, like haul trucks and that. All I can say is that's not contemplated for us. We believe in safety, certainly. And I mean, and you know, we had the Tucoy mine had over three years of zero safety incidence for for our staff. Like we were really proud of that. And but I don't know. I I think my joy in the job that I do is to see people get employed. And I would not like I, you know, this is just Dustin O'Leary speaking as Dustin O'Leary. I wouldn't want to take that opportunity away from people. I think and like mining jobs in their base provide transferable skills for people. You can go work for Dexter tomorrow and do construction. You can go work like there's there's I have I have two boys, 15 and 11, and until I got into this job, I would have never thought, you know, I I would want them to go into mining. And now I look at it and say, you know, our average starting salary is somewhere around$80,000 to$100,000, right? So like you look at kids these days, they can't like I'm looking at my son saying, I'm gonna have to, we might buy another house and keep our existing house so that he has somewhere to move into because he's not gonna be able at this rate to afford a house until he's in his 40s, right? So I want him to have an opportunity to take a job that will give him the ability to get ahead quicker, and that is provided by this, especially you have that sort of mutual good-paying jobs with a rural area of the province that may the the the drains from a cost perspective may be a little bit less.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

But that's yeah, I guess that's true because you can go and buy a house a little cheaper out in like Muscat Abbott Harbor than you can in Dartmouth. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's nothing against Dartmouth. Nothing against Dartmouth at all. It's just it's more expensive than uh Muscat Abbott Harbor.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Yeah, absolutely. I hope that answers the question because I don't want to I don't want to seem like I'm skirting it. I think I think that mining is uh there's no doubt, mining is a uh people-intensive job, but I think understanding that there's technologies out there and that stuff you know, one of the things that we were most proud of is that when we contemplated Tucoy, it had about 180 people being employed. And by the time we were in full production, we were at about 340. And we took that as that is an accomplishment. We were able to get, you know, we need we needed those people, but that is providing that ability to the opportunity in the community and providing the the you know, the workforce, the ability to work was was huge for us. So I I I'm I get more, I mean, and again, just me, I get more joy of thinking of 300 people being employed than I do automated trucks going up and down.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

That's around the corner or whatever. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

I literally don't even like since how little I know about mining. Yeah, like are they open minds or are they closed, like closed off, like kind of mines, like the old school kind of like I'm walking down a dark tunnel with uh you know so most of the time you with a little light, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Like the railroad thing? Some of them, some of them because they were underground, actually do have a shaft that at the beginning that you can see. Some of them are just uh are are areas that you wouldn't know are there necessarily until you do two things. The old timers often use mercury, uh so to to uh as a as a you know um to leach the gold out of the rocks. So and when they had leftover mercury, often what they would do, I mean, it was not an uh a sort of an advanced environmental time, you put it in a waterway, right? Right, and then it goes away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so at Tucoy, for example, at our we we cleaned up 55,000 tons of historic mine tailings that were there from and and at the the future sites that we're contemplating, there's there's seven more sites that I mean some of them are are pretty jarring that are areas where there's just old tailings left over that are are pooled uh on the on the ground. So so I don't mean to disparage the where we're doing our work, but I I will say it's not like they are old mine sites. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

It's not you know, it's not disappointing. I was just thinking for the newer workforce, if you could incorporate the video game Minecraft with some of the the old style mines, make it like a virtual thing where they're just playing a game and and doing the doing the work, you might you might have a really good employee successfully.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

You're maybe selling a little too easy.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

No, no, I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

The uh yeah, so the other thing about mines too is like again, this is like I don't know anything about it. So it it when you're mining, you can you can estimate obviously how much gold is in there, but there's no sure way. Like when you're kind of digging all this stuff, like there's other minerals and things that you're doing do you also use those to kind of help make profit?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

And so one of the things it's almost the other way. So one of the things that the pro provincial government has done in the last couple of years is add mining as what they call a strategic mineral, and a lot of the reason is because the critical minerals like that in there's there's a few that are here in the province, lithium, and there's some tungsten around that kind of thing. But oftentimes, you know, it people often ask me, like, when we do exploration around the province, did you find gold? And I'm like, there's gold everywhere, right? It's a matter of whether it's economical to extract it. Exactly, yeah. So oftentimes for the critical minerals, it's there's not enough in the province to make it economical to extract it. But if you did with a precious metal like silver or gold or something like that, it would be economical, right? So so I think the province's push to strategic minerals, I think a lot of it has been around the uh the the recognition that there might not be enough critical mineral in Nova Scotia to make it economical to for a company to come because the province isn't building mines. Like let's be clear, right? They need people to come in and and and do that. But to do it, you have to be able to do it economically.

Working With First Nations Respectfully

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

So are they uh so when you do that, like are so are you are you selling off the other like critical minerals that you're coming across, or do you just like throw it out?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

No, but it's not gold, no good. Like it depends. There's not it it depends on the b the uh the ore body, which is the the ground below of how much there is of any of this in the deposits we have, there's not a lot of anything other than gold there. So so we don't some will, and there's sometimes you can do like I think that's one of the things that they'll probably look at with the a lot of the historic sites is is what else is there that that is of value. But but for us it's it's mostly gold.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Well, just to kind of move on about the mining stuff again, I mean um, I mean, a major a major thing that that you must encounter is is is with dealing with First Nations, first my gosh, First Nations, uh you know, in and just trying to navigate that field. How does that work today in in this day and age? Like how how is how are these equations playing out now as you're looking at like the Eastern Shore and prospecting these areas and respecting these uh communities?

What Running For Council Teaches

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Aaron Powell It's uh it's a very odd time in our in where we're at right now, both with the federal and the provincial government, because we always have to remember that the actual duty to consult is between the government and the First Nations communities, right? So if a proponent tries to the like a like somebody who's trying to develop a project can do as much as they are able to or as much as they wish to ahead, but it's but at the end of the day, the discussion is between the communities and and the government, whichever government body they're they're speaking to. All I can say from my perspective is it's been one of my joys to be able to be work with First Nations communities in this province. It's complex, it's and there's a lot of issues, and there's a lot of historic issues there, right? Like really historic issues, right? The trust element, yeah. So the only thing I've tried to do in my whole time is listen, right, and learn. And you're sort of you have to be willing to be on this journey and and try and make it a little bit better than it was before or further a little bit more understanding. But you also have to understand that there are issues and history that are beyond you that are going to affect this, and sometimes you can, you know, you have to agree to disagree, and you have to be able to say, I'm gonna we I want to keep the discussion open without me always being right or you always being right. So sure, uh so all I'll say is it's complex, yes, and ever I hope like we'll keep trying. I hope everybody keeps trying, and I and I think that there's definitely a role for proponents in making sure that they do as much as they can, right? And and sometimes it's it's it won't change the the view of any party, but it doesn't mean you stop, right? Because because there's there's just so much history wrapped up in this that you know that you can help by talking about you know how you do things in modern day and how you but but and sometimes you just have to be comfortable with the fact that you be respectful with one another and understand that it might not change how anybody feels.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Yeah. No, it's it's it's but that's that's that's the world we're in, right? And you have to be okay with that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah. No, that is a that is life. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The uh yeah, so I mean, I would say, I don't know if you have any other things, but I say we roll right into the fun stuff. Unless you have some other stuff here.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Do we get to talk about council at any time?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Oh, yeah, we can talk about council, sure. Did you want to talk about council? Let's talk about council. Okay, yeah, we can talk about council.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

So we're talking about the Halifax Council? Yeah, yeah. In particular, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

I mean, uh what was the uh he actually he ran for my area, so my riding of the last year in your prospect.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah. Yeah, so they changed the they changed the the constituencies. So then it actually involved St. Margaret's Bay and Tantalon with Prospect all keeping together as one. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

So when I ran, it was Harrincove, Spryfield, Sambro, and Prospect.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Then four years later, so I ran in 2020, 2024, Armdale to Sambro was all one, and now Prospect out to Hubbard's was all one.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Which is a complex geographically that doesn't make a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

I actually spoke against it. Yeah. I went and spoke against it. I didn't think it was the right way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I mean, you know, yeah. I think Prospect, though, as like a district had been sort of abused overall, right? Passed back and forth. Yeah. Like it, you know, sort of got encompassed by the Beachville monster. And then and then I think it to be fair to Prospect in in the 2024 election, I think it showed its strength because you know the the Ten Talon St. Margaret's Bay side is not as populous as the as the Beechville side, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yeah. Yeah. No, it was uh yeah, they it was it was yeah, it was interesting. I mean, there was a again a big number of people that came out, and but yeah, uh you like me, it sounds, as much as I wanted it at the time. Yeah. Hindsight being 2020, don't regret not getting it down.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

So so my my family and I were displaced in the wildfires in 2023. Oh, okay. Yeah, and uh I was the president of the Westwood Hills Residents Association at the time and fought pretty hard because we didn't we needed emergency egress.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Yeah, did you lose your home or did you just nope?

SPEAKER_01 35:36

We were lucky, we were about a kilometer away from from it, but damaged and stuff, though still. Yeah, and and but we had relatives in Fall River, and we were my wife's sister and her her partner were were great with us, and but it was tough. And it was one of those things where I I've always been a political person, but I didn't want to run just to be a politician, right? Like the I was the same. Yeah, like I wanted to run to do something, and the idea was we were I was gonna work on safety. Uh and if after four years I had no hair left because I had pulled it all out and I was ready to move on, that was fine. But but I but I you know I I was unfortunately like at the night of the election, the first ballot that comes in is the online ballot, and I was down by about 700 or 800 votes, and I said to the the crew at home, I said, We're done. This is this is it. Let's do let's party. And everybody was like, My God, there's still like you know, uh so many polls to come in.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

We started election you ran uh uh ran on I ran 2020, 2024. Oh god, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

But I you know, and I'm for a variety of reasons. Uh I I mean seeing what the fits and spurts that council's going through right now, as well as uh you know, not to get too personal gents, but my my wife as well was was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2025. So she's had a she's doing pretty good now, but she she had a she we had a run and I said, you know what makes you a terrible politician having stuff going on at home? So uh so I was I was I was so happy to I mean I love where I live and I and I I look back on the experience as a tremendous one. I really not one I want to do again. That's the best way you look back.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

I think you're both brave. You throw your hats in the ring, to be honest. Yeah, I know you was a person. You'd have a lot coming at you, and you'd have a lot of opinions coming at you. I but my questions are probably easy today compared to some of the ones you got out on the street. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

So I I I I and I do, I give credit to ever anybody who runs. I just you know, I hope like do it for a reason, right? Like because being a counselor probably just is a reason is probably not enough.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

That's fair, very fair. And yeah. How many did you did you did you walk off any doorsteps? Like in anger? Yeah, or you know, in general, whatever. Like that's not me.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

No, no, I didn't. I I'll be honest with you. I there was people who didn't agree with me. Yeah. I found it more to be honest, they had a few sessions, like like I won't call them debates because you didn't actually get to talk to one another. You talked about an issue in the room. I found that that was probably more contentious at times than than the doorsteps because just of the way it the way it works. But I I the some of the sessions were a little contentious, especially when you talk about transit in the prospect area. Things get contentious, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:24

So I didn't get to experience that. I got the COVID robbed me of that. Yeah. Um I we did ours online, so it was like, you know, you got to talk, and then you couldn't, you know, you couldn't be too, you know, oh, you couldn't talk over each other or anything like that, or you couldn't like argue with each other because it was like, you know, it was the Muppet Show kind of going on there.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

So my the funny part is my wife is not political at all, right? And and so we're at this session up in Terrence Bay doing, you know, doing a and all of a sudden we're like two hours in and she's there to support me, and then they were like, We still have a whole lot of questions. How about going an extra hour? And I just looked over at her and she was like, go, but it was you know, like so it was it was it was I can see it being really tough on a family. Yeah, oh gosh. Yeah, and uh and it was tough on ours in the time that we were in the campaign, let alone if you had a one. So I I think that's that's something that I you it's gotta be respected too.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

It's tough. It is, it's a calling. I mean, uh we have a lot going on with with politicians right now, and I I'll I I always maintain as much as there's ones I disagree with, ones that the ones I like sometimes very disagree with, that I, you know, I don't I'm not a big fan, but I am always a fan, especially when it gets political parties, I am always someone who tries to be involved somewhat in all of them because I still want the best people in place in those parties. Yeah, so whether it's the liberals, the NDP, or the conservatives or PC here in in Nova Scotia, I still want the best people in leadership, right? So as much as this is not supposed to be done or whatever, but I will join the party when leaderships come up so I can vote. Sure. And I will vote on like a person because I want to be able to say this is like the person I would like to have. Because in the end, it's gonna come down to most times gonna come down to one of those three, right? And I would like three great candidates, yeah. Right? I would like the three of the best candidates that we can find to debate each other and whoever wins my vote wins my vote.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, right. One of the worst things I think we see, like with especially, I mean, we always talk about our neighbors to the south, right? But like is the ascribing of motives, right? Like that there's any other motive, like you don't, I would hope that you don't get into this to destroy it, right? So so like if everybody's trying to do their make you know things better, do their best, then you can have a different view of what is best, but you're hoping that it like I would not say any politicians going in it to make the situation around them worse.

How Nova Scotia Unlocks Opportunity

SPEAKER_02 40:55

I don't feel that way either, and I know a lot of them, and the other thing I'll say is that there's a lot of people who sit there and they'll I can understand about you know talking about tightening of the belt loops and things like that, but a lot of them are saying that uh talking about their wage and raises and all this other stuff. I'm telling you, you know, a city council right now makes about 103,000. And that does, I understand recognize to a lot of people that seems like an insane amount of money to some people, and to some people not so much. That being said, though,$103,000 to have sometimes your family threatened, to have like there's been situations where people have had their doors kicked in and like attacked and harassed, families threatened, and it's a 24-7 job. Yeah, and people hate you who don't know you, like hate you, truly wish that you would get run over by a car.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Yeah, we discussed this before a few times on the show. And I mean, I I agree with you, Matt. Nobody deserves that. Right. No, not at all. I mean, it I I feel that people that go to be counselors or go to do any kind of work like that want to try to make the world a better place and are doing the best they can, yeah, and just trying to figure things out. And I think very, very few people do it in vain. Like I really do believe that. So so yeah, no, I I I don't condone that kind of stuff. We should be showing people respect, we should be having honest and open conversations and respecting people's privacy and their families. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Yeah, so let's go into the fun stuff.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Okay. Almost. I just I just I mean we're we're almost there to the fun stuff. This is this is really a question for you because you know we we do take clips of the show and we put it out there, and I mean I really wanted to just ask what would actually need to change for Nova Scotia to capitalize on its resource potential, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Wow. Then understanding uh that it's a prolonged commitment, that it's you know, so often I think it's the search for the silver bullet. There's no silver bullet here, right? So you have to find a balance between holding proponents to account, protecting the shared environment between, you know, uh wherever the project is hoping to develop, but understanding that there is benefit. You have to and and that you have to create some some benefit and and holding that, as I said, holding the company to account to make sure that they do it in a way that actually provides the benefit to the local community, right? So I think that's I think that's where sometimes the the government entities, both municipal and provincial, fall apart a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Is that where the person falls apart and having faith in it? Like this, how could I have a faith in a company that's just going to be true under word that I don't know? Sure.

Big Questions And Fast Answers

SPEAKER_01 43:32

But I I think one of the things is how do we benefit from this, right? How do we take benefit from this? And if you think about that ahead of time, you can make it a lot more realistic in the community. But but you have to these things don't happen quickly, right? So you have time hopefully that's not for me. You the you have time to get ready for this, right? In in most cases, but I think one of the things that I always call the tangibility problem. You can and we talked about it in the beginning of this, you have uh is it talk or is it real? Yeah, if if people will actually think it's real, then you can start planning for it and how you how you you know take the most benefit out of it.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

That's a good answer. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so much. Uh I know these are some hard questions, and I think you did a great job answering them, honestly. And I I appreciate your time so much. Like uh so ready for dumb questions?

SPEAKER_02 44:31

All right, let's go. You lead the way, my friend. All right, I'm going first. All right. Yeah. Question number one. So if civilization collapsed tomorrow, what would be the most valuable human skill after survival itself? So, what would be the most valuable human skill after survival?

SPEAKER_01 44:48

All I can think of is fire.

unknown 44:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Anyone who's the mattress of the life.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Good answer. I'm surviving. Where's the matches? Yeah. That guy, okay. He's he's a new leader. Okay. If energy itself was free, F-R-E-E, and not monopolized by any way in Canada, what do you think would change in society? What would be the societal change we would see if energy costs us nothing?

unknown 45:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Sorry, man.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

These are deep questions. Yeah, this is this is cool. I've never thought of that. The problem, I guess, is that I'm not sure how much would change. I don't either. Like this is, I couldn't answer this question. The answer might be nothing. Yeah, right. But but you know, we were having I was having this discussion with my my son the other night because we were talking about daylight savings. Yeah. Right. And, you know, the sort of it's for the farmers. It's not for the farmers, actually. It was to save energy in like World War One, but it doesn't work anymore, right? Like it doesn't work when you're blasting, you know, your air conditioner at all hours that you're saving.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

CVs on 24-7 or whatever, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

So so I I I don't that's I think that's an issue, is that I don't I don't know how much it would change anyway.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

I you think we'd all pretty well stay the same and just go on to the next challenge. Yeah. Things get cheaper. One thing would be a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

All right, question number three. So, what's your favorite treat meal?

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Favorite treat meal. There is a place over on Main Street in Dartmouth called the Vines. Oh, yeah. The Vines. I haven't been there in years. Yeah. Oh, so if my wife and I can get a time away, it's the Vines and almost anything they do. They used to do a cantalone that they don't do anymore, that was absolutely cantalone. Yeah, I would like ask them to put sauce into a Tupperware and just send me home with it so I could.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

But uh do you like McMac Tavern in in Darwin as well? That's one of my favorite spots. That's great too.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

I I'm I'm always good for a pub meal, but if but if you get to go divine, it's a good spot.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Yeah, it's a fun spot for sure.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

And stop in at the gateway meat market while you're going. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

Question number four to you. Name a person that inspires you, dead or alive, and why?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

He's probably gonna hate me saying his name, but Daryl Dexter. Okay, the former premier, he's yeah, he's a really good man. And he's been we we got to work together, but I've kept in touch with him since. And I feel like he's a guy who manages, you know, had some tough situations politically, manages to stay above the fray and kind. And you know, and and the when you can make tough decisions and do tough things and stay kind to people and understand that there's different perspectives, which he does, that's I could I could offer you that exact same compliment about you after our conversation today.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

So great great answer.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

I'd like to have Daryl Dexter on here. We talked to him about it. Oh, he said yes. He said yes, we but then he ghosted us. Did he?

SPEAKER_01 47:47

I'll I'll I'll I'll text him and see if I can get him back. All right, yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Yeah, yeah. Question number five. Okay. Do you think fish conceive water the same way that humans conceive air? Are you not baked enough for this question? Yeah, no, yeah. So is this at your point? We should be on a different show for that one.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

We haven't gotten far enough in for these questions. Uh yeah, probably. I mean, it's where they're it's where they're at. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

I'll take that's a good answer. Over to you, question six. Okay. How many colors in a package of Skittles? Or do I said Skittles? Skittles. Oh my gosh. I have never mind. You'll see the next question, man. You'll just laugh. Yellow four? I'm not sure. Okay, but I'm gonna give you the pass.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

I will be honest with you, I hate Skittles. My kids love them. My kid loves them too. Yeah, and I am like, keep them as far away from me as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

I like that. So let's just give him a pass and ask him the next question because this is kind of stupid here. I mean, I obviously messed up. Yeah, you did, because you have two like round candy questions here. I've never done that before.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

So, like, but I'm gonna change it up.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

No, no, just ask him the question, and then you can give him a bonus one if you want. Sure, okay. See if they get it.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

How many colors are in a package of Smarties?

SPEAKER_03 49:04

I've also been distracted and went back to the questions.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

I feel like I should know this because I was the I was the kid in the generation where they had the the blue Smardy thing. Oh, it was a special thing. Yeah, it was a special thing and you gotta eat the red ones last. And you got to eat the red ones last, yeah. And I have no idea, not a big span of the thing.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

And they're an iconic Canadian snack brand. Like the Smarties are Canadian, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Not in the US, eh? Yeah. They're they're always I hate, I mean, uh like if anybody at Smarties needs to sue me for this, go ahead. But they were they're always what's left over from our kids' Halloween at the end.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

I'll save you here because you know what? They're like my kid's favorite. Oh, are they really? He just opens them up and just down, drinks them. Drinks them out of the box.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Wow. No, Gracie's the same as as your kids. Yeah, doesn't care for the Smarties. He loves them. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. All right, question number eight. Eight Smarties. Eight colors, sorry. Eight colours, yeah, was the answer. Yeah. No more, no more round candy questions. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Question number eight over to you.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

What's the biggest threat to question number eight? Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

If you could magically change one mindset in Atlantic Canada overnight, what would it be? And I think we've touched on this theme a lot today, so you might have an easy answer here.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Well, there is an easy answer, but I'm I don't I don't like, you know, the whole no out of Nova Scotia thing, and I I respect that to an extent, but what I I guess realistically for me it would be that sometimes we look at business as a bad guy, and sometimes they are, right? Like we I think we have to go in with eyes wide open, but I don't think like there's a lot of people who will say, you know, small business has its place, tourism has its place, but you do need bigger businesses and industry to make a fulsome economy. And if you're and if and if the mindset is once big business comes in, it's bad, that's a problem, right? Like that's tough, it's tough to come back from that. So I think if I if I would if I if that's the mindset I would try and try and overcome, and listen, the way to overcome that is to do good things and to do good work. That's right, and meet your commitments to track records bringing volumes.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

I mean, you know, I uh you know great example that in Canada is Ikea. I came here from Sweden. Sure. I mean, there's that big old store there. I mean, every Everyone likes Swedes people. Everyone likes you talk bad about Ikea? Really?

SPEAKER_01 51:31

Other than the fact it's too darn busy. But no one talks about Sweden. I I my wife and I went there a couple of weeks ago, and I can't like it's she sees it as some sort of religious experience to go to the cafeteria at IKEA. And I got yeah, well, that was the thing. I got meatballs, but it was all the veggie ones? No. Oh, it's right, because they have they do have Indian meat style. I was like, I like a little bit of spice. This is great, and about four or five in, I was like, can you check? Because I think my mouth is on fire right now. Oh, okay. They were spicy, they were spicy, yeah. So I was like, how is this at a cafeteria? The Swedes bring it. All right, cool. All right, we're checking it.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

We're trying to check it out now. I like meat. All right, question number nine. So, what's the biggest threat to success of Nova Scotia as a province? So the biggest threat that we have.

What To Read And Final Advice

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I think right now the biggest threat is that we can't so we can't have the luxury all the time of thinking that we get to just turn down opportunity and look at another level of government to help us fund it. That's unfair. Right. So and I and it doesn't mean you just uh open up, say we're open and let everybody in who wants to come in, but I think you sometimes we get caught in the idea that it'll we have a you know we can just pick what we want and that the feds will fund the rest of it. And I don't think that's a fair assumption anymore. I I think that we have to we have to look at opportunity as a way of offsetting our reliance on the federal government and on other levels of government and and look at how what do we want this to look like in 20 years, right? Like what how reliant do we want to be on on not ourselves and and look where the opportunities are and seize on them? What a Don Mills answer.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Text I like him too. He's a he's a he'd love that.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

All right, question number 10 over to you. All right, just what's one, you know, if you had a recommendation for a book, something people could read or watch to give them a better understanding of economic development.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Oh my goodness. You know, I I don't really I'll be honest with you, my my economic development, economic development in Nova Scotia is a much different beast than it is in most other places because a lot of my economic development is understanding the players and the so I would say read a book on residential schools in the province, read a book on the Mi'kmaq history in the province, read read a book on Robert Stanfield or on or on how you know how we got to all this. Because one of the things I I tell our our Australian comrades who come over here is when you're going home at night and you're in the car, think of every news story from the perspective of how did the government cause this problem and what are they going to do to solve it, right? Like we are governments, cause oven solution to all of the problems. But we really are such a government-focused society, and especially Nova Scotia, that so much of what we do comes from whether we like it or not. And I think a lot of people would don't want to admit it, but the government does have such a hand, either municipal or provincial, here in how things happen and how things work. So I think to doing your best to understand how this whole thing works together as best you can. And then, you know, the the wonderful thing is that we're still accessible, right? Like Claudia Chender is around, Tim Houston is around, you know. The the you can you can go talk to your municipal counselor, start a podcast, ask them come on for a point, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, like, you know, people tie that history into today is important.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

Wow. Great answers all around. Uh last call question. Yeah, last call question is just a piece of advice that you're given in your lifetime. It could be from anybody that you'd less likely to share with our listeners. Just a piece of advice.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Well, I mean, you know what? I my my father is not the most eloquent man in the world, but I will say for my life and and when he first met my wife, he he said, Are you serious about her? And I said, Yeah, and he said, I'm gonna tell you right now, she's cute, she's smart, don't f it up. And and and that's great advice. I think for me, that's brilliant. You know, our we've been together, we'll be 20 years next year. And thank you. And and I don't have the ability to do things like this unless the the folks at home are are same with us, we say one all the time. So I think I think uh I think you know, that's my own one. I I I probably should come up with a better answer. No, that's a great answer. Absolutely. If I can add one more though, because I'm sorry that I'm sure but you know when I first started working in mining, one of the things our our COO said to me is nobody should go hungry when there's a gold mine in the in the community. And I think you know, I thought he was gonna say mine your business. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. We don't we don't do that well either. But but I think I think making sure that that you have a frame of reference to look outside of yourself. Uh and and uh and and hopefully that was that was one of those ones early that it was like just go do good and and it'll fall.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Absolutely. Really thank you a lot for your time very much. And uh yeah, this was a great conversation. I learned a ton. I hope you learned stuff too. Yeah, so and uh yeah, I have to see. Welcome back anytime. Yeah, absolutely. Cheers. Thanks, Jence. Cheers to you.